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Author Topic: Bedini SSG - self sustaining  (Read 133764 times)

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #120 on: November 12, 2009, 07:04:14 PM »



@magluvin
I cannot see your video as I am at work:) but we should not underestimate the usefulness of reed switches nor contact switches. The modern electronics person would call them obsolete but they can do things modern electronics can't. I have had reed switches biased with an external magnet in in such a way that they could switch in millisecond pulses at hundreds of volts with no sparking. If properly timed in the circuit they also acted as lossless diodes with no voltage drop and can rectify an alternating current or varied DC. If the biasing and timing are perfectly tuned you cannot actually see the reed switch move as the movement is in the thousandths of an inch, as well with the small amount of motion involved they will go completely silent. Many people have commented that they were not even aware that my rotorless bedini reed circuits were even running in a perfectly quiet room. The only major drawback is that they can become disturbed if the device is moved around, but other than that I have found them superior to any electronic circuits I have built because there a basically zero losses. Imagine a switch that can last years, is silent, has no losses-no voltage drop, has no turn on/off voltage requirements, no minimum voltages, can handle AC or DC or both simultaneously and very fast rise/fall times. As always the component is only as good as the knowledge of the person operating it and people should not judge things until they fully understand them. If you pull apart a relay and use the contacts you can space the contacts down to thousandths of an inch, next glue a 1/8" neo magnet to the movable contact on the opposite side of the contact near the end. You can use 1/16th inch brass shim stock strips and solder smaller contacts to them to extend the sensitivity of the switching. In this case the length and stiffness of the brass strip can be tuned to the motor, you can have multiple switches per pass of a magnet if the contact strip length is a harmonic of the frequency of the passing magnet/rotor speed :). I have had these types of contact switches operating as far as two feet away from a bedini motor, they can be very sensitive to any changes in the magnetic fields.
Regards
AC


@all

As I think I said previously reed relays are almost perfect substitue for switches
in overunity devices. Because of low leakage and complete isolation. Especially the
5Volt 600ohm coil reed relay with 1 amp maximum current switch current which are
a very inexpensive devices.

The bad part is;

a) there is a maximum DC current that the switch contacts can support.
b) The total transisition between conductance and non-conductance
     has a tendancy to create arcs when switching. Really excessive current
     can cause switch contacts to weld. Arc's could be consider contact
     combustion.
c) There is current dissipation when coil is activated... please
     understand "Latching Relays" (see wikipedia)
d) There is a maximum design number of switching events so 60Hz is about
    the maximum reed relays recommended.
e) Relays need a conditioning current...signal switching will not always
    will not always occur cleanly at too low current level.

Note; that opto switches also dissipate power to activate their leds.
But have more or less unlimited bandwidth. Note there are commericial
solid state relays called SSR's that work the same way...there are a large variety
of switches and opto device embedded in them. (many use SCR's and Triacs
that require control of (zero crossing) AC signal voltages to turn off.

I am interested in Plengo's tendancy to switch current at high speeds...and his circuit
can do so cleanly.

:S:MarkSCoffman
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #120 on: November 12, 2009, 07:04:14 PM »

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #121 on: November 12, 2009, 07:20:38 PM »
@Plengo

Your instruments look professonal.

I am impressed with what you are showing. I agree that ionic resonance in
the batteries may play a role in the excess energy production. I wonder if
different battery capacities have different resonant frequencies?

Any chance you can create a microcontroller based synthetic load resister (led lamp)
to dissipate excess produced energy by turning on and off (slow PWM). Note that
maximum system energy production may not occur if one waits for the batteries to
charge all the way up to maximum. I would like to see proof of eventual overunity
in this core circuit, with produced energy greater than storage battery capacity.

Magluvin will also eventually need to see how this is done.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #122 on: November 12, 2009, 08:40:33 PM »
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320445448645&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

This is the link to the reeds I bought, I didnt think I would be able to copy it being an already sold item. But the link still works without me being logged in to my acct.
They have what seems to be very heavy leads, solder type.  Current handling is probably good, my concern will be switching times due to size, we will see. For me, at the price and quantity, its worth the shot.

I have an idea about the bemf pulses. Would you say that those are of high freq. ?  Does BEMF flow on the skin of the coils wire? Skin effect?
I have an inductor coil that I had shown on my vids. Its about 300 turns 0.9 ohms and I believe 18awg wire. What I have in mind is to recreate that coil using multiple fine wires, the number of which would equal or come close to equal to the 18awg, to increase skin surface in hopes of increasing the bemf's potential.  I think that trying to get the most out of back emf is crucial to efficiency. 
Then do test runs to see if there is a difference.

This is one of my reasons for the larger reeds is to handle the load of this test. I could recreate my lil green coil i have been using, but it is 26 awg and the wire would need to be very fine to get a good number of conductors to equal the one.
Hope that makes sense. =]

Thank guys

Magluvin

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #122 on: November 12, 2009, 08:40:33 PM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #123 on: November 12, 2009, 09:39:45 PM »
Fausto,

Here is my newest switch.

http://home.no/ufoufoufoufo/fastswitch.rar

Alex.

Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #124 on: November 13, 2009, 02:52:55 AM »
@Groundloop

That is so nice. So, you are charging the battery using the BEMF from pulsating the coils? I guess I can replicate that pretty fast. Can you post a picture of the coils?

Fausto.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #124 on: November 13, 2009, 02:52:55 AM »
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Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #125 on: November 13, 2009, 05:36:04 AM »
I have EXCELLENT NEWS:

My next step was logically to try to scale this thing up. So I did. On the schematic below you can see I added a few more switches. The frequency now is about 1 mhz.

The sequence of switching goes like this:
SW12 and SW11 are ON. SW4, SW8 and SW9 are OFF. Then I turn ON SW3 and OFF and right after turn ON SW4 and OFF. I do that sequence for about 10 seconds or less, until cap reaches the voltage of both batteries added up (I know strange).

Then I momentarily dump the capacitor into battery B1, for that I turn OFF SW3 and SW4 and turn ON SW8 and SW9 for about 1 second. Voltage of the cap goes to the same voltage of B1 and than I turn OFF SW8 and SW9. Now I go back to to the beginning and I repeat the process to infinitum.

The cap WILL charge to the voltage of both batteries added up, and that is FREE. Strangely enough battery B2 will also charge while the process happens.

Important to understand the SW3 and SW4 are never ON together so there is NEVER a closed loop
except when dumping the cap into B1.

My next step will be using a series of batteries in series and see what happens. Since there is never a current flowing (except when dumping the cap into the battery) it will scale to very high voltages pretty well. The voltage increase is about 10th of a volt per 10 minutes in each battery. I would say pretty fast too.

Fausto.

Offline Groundloop

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #126 on: November 13, 2009, 07:31:25 AM »
Fausto,

Very nice setup with your switch. Maybe we need to use really high
voltage transistors to scale this up?

My new switch has not been tested yet on a "real" toroid coil. I will post
data and images on my new coil when it is done in a week or two. I'm
waiting (for the snail mail) for copper wire and a new toroid core.

Alex.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #126 on: November 13, 2009, 07:31:25 AM »
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Offline tinu

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #127 on: November 13, 2009, 11:29:07 AM »
Fausto,

Many thanks for running these experiments and for posting the results, which looks very intriguing to me.

May I suggest to look again at the possible energy getting in from the switching elements, by either: a) replacing batteries with some capacitors (initially discharged) and do voltage checks on all caps during switching and/or b) replacing batteries with variable resistors of relatively large values so in case C1 is charged by bleedings from optos/switching elements, by properly adjusting Rvars as to maintain VC1 approximately constant and by knowing on-off times, the small power input from optos (if it exists) could be properly estimated?

I apologize if the above were already suggested and/or conducted; my only excuse is that I didn’t have enough time to read the whole thread.

Many thanks again,
Tinu

Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #128 on: November 13, 2009, 03:12:39 PM »
@tinu

thanks for the comment. I have done the test using only caps instead of batteries for that exact point. No, caps will not work and the bleeding if any is meaningless to the point that voltage meters will only show the caps being discharged so that in less than 5 seconds the whole thing will simply stop.

Fausto.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #128 on: November 13, 2009, 03:12:39 PM »
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Offline mscoffman

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #129 on: November 13, 2009, 04:51:02 PM »
Fausto,

Many thanks for running these experiments and for posting the results, which looks very intriguing to me.

May I suggest to look again at the possible energy getting in from the switching elements, by either: a) replacing batteries with some capacitors (initially discharged) and do voltage checks on all caps during switching and/or b) replacing batteries with variable resistors of relatively large values so in case C1 is charged by bleedings from optos/switching elements, by properly adjusting Rvars as to maintain VC1 approximately constant and by knowing on-off times, the small power input from optos (if it exists) could be properly estimated?

I apologize if the above were already suggested and/or conducted; my only excuse is that I didn’t have enough time to read the whole thread.

Many thanks again,
Tinu

It should be possible to measure any DC coupling between the
opto and the transistor. This would be so negative for the
opto component, I find it difficult to believe it would be designed
that way. You know, we don't want that DC bias and I'll bet
others don't either.

There are opto components that use photovoltaic cells in series
to produce some voltage from their leds. Field effect transistor
like to have their gates biased slightly above Vsource, and I guess
you could use this. As I have said there are all sorts of opto
component functionality.

Bets are off if you can find a magazine article describing use of a standard
opto-isolator this way.


:S:MarkSCoffman

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #130 on: November 13, 2009, 04:57:07 PM »
I have EXCELLENT NEWS:

My next step was logically to try to scale this thing up. So I did. On the schematic below you can see I added a few more switches. The frequency now is about 1 mhz.

The sequence of switching goes like this:
SW12 and SW11 are ON. SW4, SW8 and SW9 are OFF. Then I turn ON SW3 and OFF and right after turn ON SW4 and OFF. I do that sequence for about 10 seconds or less, until cap reaches the voltage of both batteries added up (I know strange).

Then I momentarily dump the capacitor into battery B1, for that I turn OFF SW3 and SW4 and turn ON SW8 and SW9 for about 1 second. Voltage of the cap goes to the same voltage of B1 and than I turn OFF SW8 and SW9. Now I go back to to the beginning and I repeat the process to infinitum.

The cap WILL charge to the voltage of both batteries added up, and that is FREE. Strangely enough battery B2 will also charge while the process happens.

Important to understand the SW3 and SW4 are never ON together so there is NEVER a closed loop
except when dumping the cap into B1.

My next step will be using a series of batteries in series and see what happens. Since there is never a current flowing (except when dumping the cap into the battery) it will scale to very high voltages pretty well. The voltage increase is about 10th of a volt per 10 minutes in each battery. I would say pretty fast too.

Fausto.

Now we are getting somewhere!

:S:MarkSCoffman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #130 on: November 13, 2009, 04:57:07 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #131 on: November 14, 2009, 09:41:59 PM »
....
The cap WILL charge to the voltage of both batteries added up, and that is FREE. Strangely enough battery B2 will also charge while the process happens.
....
 Since there is never a current flowing (except when dumping the cap into the battery) it will scale to very high voltages pretty well. The voltage increase is about 10th of a volt per 10 minutes in each battery. I would say pretty fast too.

Fausto.

Hi Fausto,

Would like to understand why you think the charge up of the capacitor to the batteries' voltage level is FREE? And there is no current flowing into the cap when it is charging?

I mean the well known exponential curve for the voltage -time function when charging up any capacitor:
assuming zero voltage in a cap, the moment you switch say 12V across this cap the current is at the maximum, dictated only by the residual resistance of the battery inner and any other circuit resistance in series, including the ESR of the cap.
Then this maximum peak current (which can even be as high as some Amper in case of some thousand microFarad cap) will exponentially decrease as the voltage in the cap increases.  And I think the charging current comes from the batteries.  IT is ok that in your circuit the cap starts charging up from zero voltage only at the first switch-on then the voltage varies between 12V and 24V (neglecting the diodes forward voltage drop) but to get the 24V it needs current. 

I know Thomas Bearden referred to some article on the lossless charge-up of capacitors in small voltage steps but would it mean that no energy is taken from a source when you load the voltage source by an initially empty capacitor for very small but consecutive time durations??

Thanks, Gyula

Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #132 on: November 15, 2009, 01:31:22 AM »
@Gyula

Thanks for the comments.

You're correct. I should have qualified a little bit more my statements before. What I mean by FREE is the fact the both the batteries are charging plus the cap, so it is free because it is not being deducted from the batteries.

When I say no current I really mean also the fact that the circuit is a "open-loop" circuit. I never close the loop to allow the "regular" current to charge the cap. It must be a different process to explain the current that goes to the cap since it is not "circulating" via the batteries in a known fashion (since the batteries are not discharging).

I have a new circuit where I hell simplified the previous version and all the batteries charge up while running. No caps, no coils, nothing just the batteries and the switches from my optos. I also show the sequence of the events so all can replicate.

I guess the short duration of pulses from the batteries is causing somehow the batteries to charge.

Sequence is:
turn SW11 ON
turn SW12 ON
turn SW4 ON

turn SW4 OFF
turn SW12 OFF
turn SW11 OFF

turn SW9 ON
wait for 500 ms
turn SW9 OFF

repeat for ever.

The diodes in the diagram represents how the switches are in reality.

And believe me, I tried all sort of combinations and timings and the way I show on the sequence of event was the only one that work so far. Very strange. On the scope it shows as a 100 volts sharp pulse at every 1 seconds or so. Probes accross switch SW9.

Fausto.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #133 on: November 15, 2009, 12:06:49 PM »
Hi Fausto,

Thank you for all the information. You surely have a interesting circuit indeed, especially this last one in which you left out the capacitor.

 I think one possible explanation why the batteries charge up slowly (and not discharging) is that I assume there is some nanosecond common ON time for the switches, this may come from both the PIC outputs and the signal propagation delay for the optos,  so I mean the two batteries are short circuited for a few nanoseconds even if you did not design it that way.

And considering the high repetition rate of some hundred kHz or the 1Mhz you probably still use, this may be an equivalent treatment for your batteries like a desulfation circuit gives to the batteries.  This could explain the small voltage increase.  And even if there is no any nanosecond overlap at all, maybe the charge can go through the switches' output capacitance, making a route for the charging current.
I understand if you do not think my explanation is correct.  :)

Thanks, Gyula

Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #134 on: November 15, 2009, 05:05:32 PM »
@gyulasun

I have been playing with those "nanosecond" switching times and all sort of combinations that leads to your explanation. Certainly I can see when the switching of all combined switches (via their ON state or combination of capacitance and so on) is ON at the same time, I have a huge current going through and off course, discharging the battery, BUT, that is not what I am doing. I am carefully choosing the switching sequence and timing that avoids exactly that.

I can measure at any point in time only a .15 ma (point 15 of a mili-amp) during the pulse where the circuit is absolutely in a open loop (no closed loop in any form or shape, via capacitance, inductance or whatever). That has been my biggest difficulty in achieving that and it is not easy, but once I get that sweet spot where there is not current anywhere flowing only this pulse thats when the batteries start charging.

I think I am correct in stating that based on the scope shots, a 1 miliamp meter in series with the battery and the programming sequence that is very absolute. I am lead to start believing that a single wire is being used as a coil on the OFF state, not on the ON but on the off. That's the moment where the magic happens and the 100v pulse shows up and charges the battery.

Fausto.

 

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