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Author Topic: Bedini SSG - self sustaining  (Read 134187 times)

Offline plengo

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Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« on: August 29, 2009, 02:04:34 AM »
This is a regular Bedini SSG using a 48v computer fan instead of the classic wheel with magnets.

This system will charge the output battery and ALSO charge the driving battery at the same time.

« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 02:40:22 AM by plengo »

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Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« on: August 29, 2009, 02:04:34 AM »

Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2009, 02:41:37 AM »
.

Offline Goat

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2009, 03:20:27 AM »
Hi there Plengo...long time no hear.. :)

So from what I have seen from your pictures it's a Bedini Imhotep modification but on a 48v computer fan instead of the classic Bedini wheel with magnets or the Imhotep  12v computer fan mod but using a 48v system to run and charge as well as maintain the system.

Your pictures are showing the Imhotep modification on a 48v fan but where's the rest of the circuit to charge and maintain the source.

Sorry for all the questions, humanity is running out of time, 2010 is nigh.

Regards,
Paul




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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2009, 03:20:27 AM »
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Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2009, 04:41:42 PM »
@Paul,

I know time is running out very fast. You are correct in stating that this is indeed the Imhotep  48 volts modified fan and the pictures are the SAME of the other thread from Fusionchip(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6519.msg149358#msg149358). In fact the whole fan is exactly the same as the other thread which I dont want to duplicate the explanations here more than Imhotep have done.

So for all that want to participate take a look at how Imhotep have modified the fan in this youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDS9qk-Nw4M. Also simple google search should provide lots of information about this fan.

I am using a 48 volts fan which was very cheap. I found it at this address http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/category/220100/Fans/D.C.-Fans/1.html. Check also the thread from Fusionchip at http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6519.msg152301#msg152301.


The circuit is a regular SSG Bedini system, except that there is no wheel. The fan is the wheel. A few new parts - an extra battery and one more diode N5408. There will be no magnets hanging on the fan neither it will be necessary to have tricky parts from legacy systems or defunct components. IT IS A SIMPLE SSG with the 48 volts fan.

I am on the works of the explanations of the step by step in how to make this happen so just hold you breaths that I will very soon post more pictures, videos and explanations of how to do it and why i think it is working.

Fausto.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 06:00:41 PM by plengo »

Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2009, 05:21:54 PM »
Ok here it goes the process.

Make sure that the 3 batteries voltages are equal when starting if possible, if not, put the higher voltage holding battery in the back-end (B3) and the smallest holding voltage battery in the front-end in place of B2. Make sure switch SW1 is off (not shorted).

Run the system as shown on the picture and you should have a fan running around 230 rpm. You will notice that the back-end will charge as the system runs but If you let this system run long enough the front-end will simply drain and you will get the same results as everyone has. No overunity, no surprises and no fun.

The osciloscope pictures are taken from the positive terminal of the front-end (B2) and the collector of the transistor 3055.

There are two things that I noticed when running this system for many, many hours (I have been sick for days so i dont have much to do but just observe). One is that the back-end does indeed charge while the front-end just depletes (as everyone already knows that). Second, there is point where the combination (or difference) of voltage on the back-end and the front-end will be such that the system runs and temporarily the front-end will seam to be raising in voltage while the back-end also raise in voltage. That's what I call "system out of balance".

The difference in voltage from the front-end and the back-end is such that it allows that seamly weird behavior with both ends raising the voltage while the system runs. THIS IS FUNDAMENTAL.

One MUST put the system to run in this "out of balance" state until it reachs an equilibrium where it is now on the "balanced" state where the front-end will start to lower its voltage while the back-end may or may not raise in voltage. If you let it run long enough in this state you will simply deplete the front-end and again, no fun.

The Switchs SW1 and SW2 are used to force the system to be in a "out of balance" state. I still dont have a very scientific process to "how to swtich" correctly but my error and trials have been working well with the following process: Stop the fan, keep switch SW1 ON (shorted) while swtiching SW2 to point A first until voltage of the back-end drops and the front-end raises until roughly both have the same voltage. That should be around 5 seconds. Switch to B (keep SW1 ON) until back-end raises sharply. The should be around 2 seconds. Switch to A (keep SW1 ON) again until front-end is around 0.1 volts LESS then back-end voltage.  Turn off Switch SW1.

Now let the system run and watch the voltage on the front-end and the back-end raise as it runs. You have now a system "out of balance" and it will drive itself to a "balanced" state. The fan will run slower now and slowly will accelerate until you repeat the whole process again.

Take notes of the total and individual voltages and you will notice that the batteries are actually raising and charging to a higher value than when you started.

In my test setup I have been doing this over and over and over again and as the back-end charges to a greater differential of potential in relation to the front-end more difficult it is for me to keep doing that, and that simply because I still dont know what is the differential in voltage necessary to have a good "unbalanced" state yet.

When that a persistent "balanced" state is reached I simply switch the battery from the back-end (B3) with battery B1 or B2 from the front-end forcing it to be "out of balance" again.

Simple.

Fausto.

ps: videos and notes are on the way.
ps: Off course I can be totally wrong and my numbers are simply deceiving me but on my calculations using an spreadsheet I DO see an increase in total voltage on the system. That's why I need you guys to replicate this and tell me if I am craizy or not!
« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 07:10:25 PM by plengo »

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2009, 05:21:54 PM »
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Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2009, 08:49:45 PM »
This is my work in progress log. Those numbers reflect the state of the charge of all 3 batteries. They are broken down on the graph as:
- total back-end voltage (B3)
- total front-end voltage (B1 + B2)
- total voltage (B1 + B2 + B3)
- individual front-end B1 and B2 voltages

One can clearly see around point 55 that was a great drop in total voltage and that was when I let it run without my interference (without forcing a "unbalancing") until the next morning, about 6 hours of run time, and it shows clearly that letting the system run towards a "balanced" mode will eventually simply deplete all the energy that the front-end can provide and the "extra" energy that the system generates. I call this the "balanced underunity mode" or "self-underunity mode".

One can also clearly see that when I force the "unbalacing" on the system the total voltage and individual voltages tend to increase.

The numbers on the left are reduced by 36, 24 and 12 points so that one can see the fluctuation in a more granular fashion. (Note the notes on the graph itself).

I am also noticing now that it is becoming increasingly more difficult to force the system into an "unbalaced" mode because the differential in voltage of the back-end versus the front-end is getting higher, but I am still able to run it and get some increase in total voltage on the system. I will soon have to switch the batteries B3 with B1 and restart the whole process.

I will keep the graph growing and show more results and videos soon.

Fausto.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 09:16:49 PM by plengo »

Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2009, 08:58:21 PM »
More log data
« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 11:44:34 PM by plengo »

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2009, 08:58:21 PM »
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Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2009, 08:08:04 PM »
I forgot to mention this before, but one very important thing to observe is that one will need at least 4 (preferable 5) digits after the dot precision meters. :(

I was only able to notice this behavior of the battery having this "unbalanced" and "balanced" state watching those 7 digits voltages fluctuating back and forth. Very painfull process but since I was very sick and I had nothing else to do..... :D

Anyway, I have been playing with the same set of batteries of graphs before without recharging them and in the process of trying many different things including coming up with a more automated fashion in putting this system "out of balance" using switches and relays and pulse generators and so on.

My last test using a relay making switch SW2 go to position B at every 5 minutes was a total failure. In the morning my battery voltages were simply horrible. Kind of hurt. But hey, science is made of those moments too.

At least I am learning very fast that just trying to force a rhythm  onto the battery will simply NOT WORK. One must wait and see when the system is getting "balanced" so that the proper time for it is found.

I already have some interesting clues. One is, if you watch the voltage of the front-end raising (system is "out of balance") and it goes higher and higher until there is a point where it will stop going higher (with lots of fluctuations here) and than it start to go down, THERE is the point of forcing the "unbalacing".

Switch SW2 to A-B-A quickly and you will have it again the front-end raising its voltage back to the "unbalanced" state. Off course the voltages in the back-end and in the front-end will be totally different now but it does not matter. The process will in the end show you a tremendous gain.

The only thing I can think that could possibly find this "sweet point" is using micro-controllers where the average of the voltages are taken and a trend can be spotted. (Lot's to learn for me here now).

Fausto.

Offline Flux4Energizer

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2009, 12:01:56 PM »
Oke looks interesting.
But one thing i don't understand is the switch!
The way i see it is when you use the switch 1 & 2 you short out the run battery 1!
When you only use switch 1 then you bypass the diode.
I will build the circuit tho and post it on youtube to see the results, i still have enough parts to build the circuit.

Keep up the good work.

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2009, 12:01:56 PM »
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Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2009, 07:04:53 PM »
@Flux4Energizer,

thats is correct and it is also not intuitive to understand how I see this to be working.

Let me explain how I see this (I did all that via monkey science, lots of try outs and errors until I found this interesting thing about the battery).

B1 is the real driver of the whole SSG. B2 and B3 are used in that weird configuration to allow B3 (the charging battery) to receive the radiant energy (that Bedini talks) coming from D1 and at the same time receiving pulses from B1 when the transistor turns on. You can see those pulses going through B2 and B3 because one can put a amp meter between B3 negative pole and the coil and you will see it. So B3 gets freely charge directly from B1, kind of like Tesla Switching Battery project style thing.

B2 was necessary to allow B3 to be inverted because without B2 it would not be possible to connect B3 like that and still run the system.

Now, the radiant spikes coming from D1 will go to B1 most of the time and recharge that battery (Gadgetmall's design) but it does work even better if batteries B3 and B2 allow some flow constantly from them back to B1, which is when I put the system "out of balance". Switching SW1 on and SW2 to B for 1/10 of second, you will see energy going from B1 and B2 toward B3 raising its voltage and lowering B1's voltage big time, that IS the "out of balance" thing. B1 will now raise its voltage and run the system at the same time.

Now, B3 and B2 will push current constantly towards B1 while B1 is pushing current to the coil while the transistor switches. That constant current going in reverse into B1 allows a "gain" when the radiant is going ALSO towards B1. I see it almost like making the stream of water (energy) going always in "charging" mode into B1 helping the radiant stream flow to do its magic in that battery.

But all that is just one of the things I noticed. The second is when you have B3 and B2 connected like that they will dynamically change the whole system because their internal resistance will change as their charges changes which will make things even more interesting.

You can notice B3 charging EVEN WHEN energy is clearly flowing from B3 and B2 toward B1 (just put a meter there between B3 and B2 and you will see it). That is mind mangling form me.

If you run the system long enough you will also notice that B3 will charge faster while B1 goes toward "balance" mode which is when B1 is no longer raising its voltage trying to reach the previous level that it was before using the switchs that I just said previously.

The only problem I see with this whole thing is to make one SEE it and replicate it as I did and really get that sweet "balance - unbalance" spot going on manually. Also it is really necessary to have a higher 5 digits presicion meter so that you can see this minute 1/100 of a volt increase fluctuation going on. :(

I am currently trying to figure out how to do it automatticaly because I am back to work and I can not seat at my lab staring at the meters for hours and days any longer, but I am glad I was sick and could see this strange behavior that seams to be causing the gain in voltage.

Also I have tested two more things, one is which switching is the best and it seams that SW1 on + SW2 to B point is the best for 1/10 of second whenever I see the voltage on B1 stop raising for longer then 1 minute. Microcontrollers would be wonderfull here!

The other test was  just letting the system running without interference and clearly the voltages on B1 will drop steadily and B3 will stop raising until the system dies.

The third test was pulsating SW1 + SW2 to A position every 5 minutes and it also did not work at all. All voltages dropped tremendously.

SO, I can conclude that switching SW1 + SW2 to B position every "out of balance" spot comes on is really making the difference that you see on the first half of my graphs above.

Currently now I am testing the with system running with an auto switching SW1 + SW2 to B for every 5 or so minutes. So far voltages have not dropped but actually have increased although very very slowly.

Fausto.

Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2009, 07:13:21 PM »
One thing that might not be obvious on the schematics is that SW1 is always OFF while the system is running. It is a push button.

Fausto.

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2009, 07:13:21 PM »
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Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2009, 02:56:13 AM »
I am running my 3 batteries right now in semi-auto mode where I only pulse them every 20 minutes using a relay and an old function generator, very crude but at least it allows me to keep it running for the week while I work and hopefully I soon will have this controller switch doing it but more inteligently.
 
I really thing there is something weird in this behavior here. As a matter of Fact I saw a DVD from Bedini (must be energy from the vacuum 5 or 6 or something like that) where he is showing his SSG and a Window Motor and than he decides to on-the-fly change the window motor circuitry to make it an SSG to show it charging a battery (a battery that he already showed before in the same DVD being charged using a 6 pole SSG) but then that battery did not want to charge at all so he got very upset in front of the camera and did something that did not sound right to me at the time, he loaded the battery straight to a car light and reduced its voltage to almost kill it, something like under 9volts then he connected that battery back to the modified Window Motor and the baby was charging super fast to above 14 volts in front of the camera in no time. He even went to the effort to show that that charge was NOT a ghost charge but in fact a real charge.
 
Well, today I was thinking about that and realized that what I am doing with the swiching is exactly the same thing but in a more regular way and also sending that load to instead of a car lamp to the other back-end battery which is excellent.
 
So my idea now is not so far fectched as someone may think. It is indeed very well known by Bedini.
 
Fausto.
 

Offline Flux4Energizer

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2009, 08:12:29 AM »
@ Plengo

Oke thanks for your explenation.
I have four 12Volt 2Ah batteries lying around and enough parts so i dicided
to build the circuit (with a 12Volt 200mA fan), just to test the sw1 and the battery behavior.
I found that battery 1 (run battery) is being discharged at very slow rate, battery 2 (run battery) is being slowly charged and battery 3 is slowly being charged.
However, battery 3 won't go over 11.02 Volt!!!
And even more important battery 1 is discharging faster as battery 2 & 3 getting charged up.
So now the sw1; i pressed this for very short time and i must say it does behave in a way i can't realy explain right now (but maybe i missed something). Battery 2 is dropping voltage and battery 1 is dropping voltage but battery 3 is gaining voltage (between 12.45Volt and 13.13Volt). But this is only when the sw1 button is pushed, when you let go the batteries go back to their old values except for battery 1 this one wil drop sometimes as much as 0.01Volts!
Maybe i do it wrong, i don't know!

Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2009, 05:39:05 PM »
@Flux4Energizer,

very good. Try to make the SSG run as slow as possible. I usually put the pot on the base of the transistor to its highest voltage so that it will spin the fan and still consume around no more than 20ma of current.

You are doing great. Using the switch SW1 + SW2 position A is behaving just like I see it too. Very good. That's what I call putting it in "unbalanced mode". Now let it run for awhile.

If you are using the diode D2 (n5408) you should see battery B3 charging and B1 charging and B2 discharging but very slowly. After one hour or two, momentarily (for less than 1/10 of a second) make SW1 + SW2 position B (B only no position A). Do that every hour or so and what the voltages of all. It should increase the total voltage in the whole system, even if some batteries are going down.


After may be a day or so you see B2 very low in voltage and B3 very high, you switch them as the following: B1 goes to B2, B2 goes to B3 and B3 goes to B1. So the lowest in voltage will be the back-end.  You are now ready for a new start and again watch the total voltage in the system.

Fausto.

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2009, 06:29:58 PM »
Fausto;

People involved with Bedini Fan SGS's need to really study these
Plengo topic posts carefully because he seems to be presenting
the "missing link" between Bedini motors and overunity energy
production! IMHO.

I have a 12V Bedini fan which doesn't create enough BEMF...
see below. So I can not confirm what Fausto is showing here,
yet. But Fausto should be proud of what he has done so far.
I distinctly hope Fausto has microcontroller development
capabilities.

@ Plengo

I have four 12Volt 2Ah batteries lying around and enough parts so i dicided
to build the circuit (with a 12Volt 200mA fan), just to test the sw1 and the battery behavior.
I found that battery 1 (run battery) is being discharged at very slow rate, battery 2 (run battery) is being slowly charged and battery 3 is slowly being charged.
However, battery 3 won't go over 11.02 Volt!!!


I have tried the 12Volt Fans with the Bedini circuit but these fans
do not create enough Bemf back EMF pulse voltage to overcome
the silicon diode voltage drop plus the battery voltage for the
Charge Battery .

So Simply: "~YOU MUST USE A CONVERTED ~ 48VDC FAN!",
not a 12Volt fan. These 48V fans are surprisingly inexpensive. The
reason is that the 48VDC Fan has more inductance in it's field coils
so it creates a much larger voltage spike. This is an Inhoptep circuit
problem.

By the way what I did was to cut and paste all the text that
plengo has posted on this topic and put it into a text editor and
edited it...I think this is very good evidence of the scientific method.


So the strong points of Plengo's methods;

a) He uses a 48 volt Fan

b) He seems to have found a method to produce
power using the 'balanced" and "unbalanced" state
situation.

---

Weak points;

a) The Bedini motor does not self start, so a method of
self starting is required that uses battery power to do it.
(Else you have a potential for a "hand magnet" too).

b) While I think that max(Voltage batA + Voltage batB + Voltage batC)
is a probably valid way to measure the system state of charge, it is
not a technical proof of the the total energy state of charge
in the system. Just don't get too disappointed if the above is true.

c) damp-out shorting switch arcing with a small value capacitor.
No MHD magnetohydro dynamic energy generation please.

d) A valid microcontroller for this will not be able to watch
7 decimal digit volt meters to detect a voltage change,
this would be too expensive to do in a final system.

But I would like to suggest you look at the following;

You mentioned that the RPM of the fan increases from the
"unbalanced" to the "balanced" state situation. My suggestion is
that you use Fan RPM to designate the system state of charge.

A microcontroller could easily find relative Fan RPM by interfacing to
the field drive signal. The microcontroller would watch relative
Fan RPM and as it maximises it would then go though the system
"unbalancing" sequence. If the sequence is short enough then
it could swap batteries via relays. The microcontroller can still watch
the battery voltage but would not need 7 digits accuracy to do it.

e) Battery swapping takes a largish number of reed relays.

f) radiant energy = static electricity. Static electricity needs
to be isolated from microcontroller hardware.

---

The final goal should be to create a system that can continually
fully runs itself while power a small known load. When the system
runs itself for longer then the batteries could power the load directly
then that is proof of overunity.

:S:MarkSCoffman



 

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