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Author Topic: New invention of motion less generation of electric power  (Read 347608 times)

EMdevices

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Re: New invention of motion less generation of electric power
« Reply #60 on: August 31, 2009, 08:37:36 PM »
Ali,

let's not get carried away with the power factor discussions. 

You demonstrated a video with a watt-meter.  I am telling you that you can fool the watt-meter with high frequency switching.   Are you telling me you don't use switching?  Also, have you tested your device with another type of power meter?   I suggest you use an oscilloscope to see the instantaneus voltage and current.   

regards,
EM

winsonali

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Re: New invention of motion less generation of electric power
« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2009, 09:04:43 PM »
EM

you are right we shouldn't get ourselves involve in power factor issue
all the discussions are related to increase our knowledge base so please don't get offended
what i means to say that "-According to you -If high frequency can fool watt meter then 80% of devices in our homes use SMPS that use high frequency switching

in our test for device we will not use watt meter for sure.

as far as oscilloscope  shots are concerned we will do it
what we need testing procedure to establish fairly the results of the device i hope you can help us in this and send us step by step procedure for testing my device

Ali

EMdevices

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Re: New invention of motion less generation of electric power
« Reply #62 on: August 31, 2009, 09:43:54 PM »
Ali,

take a look at my diagram.  This is very simple to do.  Just make sure you use a high wattage resistor for your application.   If you don't have a calibrated load resistor, then do the same to the output, i.e. use a series resistor to measure current, in addition to the voltage.

Just post the oscilloscope shots and we can calculate the power ourselves.

One comment about SMPS supplies,   they have a rectifier bridge, and current flows on both the positive and negative cycles, then there is usually a choke to suppress the high frequency currents from traveling back out to the grid, so if they're designed correctly they won't put out a lot of interference.  But if you just connect and disconnect a capacitor at a high frequency to the line, and especially if you do it on only one polarity, you will have an average DC current flow.  This will be able to pass through the induction watt-meter and it won't be accounted for.  "Free energy", no not really, just fooling the meter.

EM

hartiberlin

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Re: New invention of motion less generation of electric power
« Reply #63 on: August 31, 2009, 10:15:22 PM »
Hi EM,
do you claim, that ALI´s device can fool the triac in the
dimmer circuit ?

Do you claim, that although the dimmer is set to 30 Volts chopped AC
Ali´s circuit is somehow "electronically" opening longer the TRIAC in his
dimmer circuit ?

I guess this is the only way I would see that his circuit could "jam"  back the dimmer
and the meter won´t show it ?

So then the only way to measure it right would be the way to feed
ALI´s circuit with a pure 30 Volts DC input source.

Then use an analog input current meter directly at the 30 Volts DC source ( e.g. battery)
and after the input current meter go to lowpass filters
before going into ALI´s input circuit.

This way any RF from the input might now disturb or jam back the input
current meter cause it is filtered via the lowpass filter.

So we can measure pure DC input power by just multiplying Volts x Amps.

This would be the best input power measurements.

Surely the best and most accurate and easiest output power measurement
would also be a DC measurement.

So it would be preferred to use a brigde rectifier and a charge cap and
measure this way across a load resistor pure DC output power levels.

The charge cap needs to be big enough, so there will be no ripple from
the 50 Hz at the load resistor.

So if Ali could do these measurements, maybe using 2 x 12 Volts batteries
in series as the input, he might get a much better power measurement setup
that is more reliable.

Regards, Stefan.

P.S. The siphon effect sounds very exciting and I wonder how this will
work for electrons ?
Please post more infos, if you can.
Many thanks.


gyulasun

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Re: New invention of motion less generation of electric power
« Reply #64 on: August 31, 2009, 10:18:31 PM »
Hi Ali,

I am sure you are careful but let me notice to use 1:1 mains isolator transformer for the oscilloscope or a 220V/30V transformer for your device to defend you equipment from braking down when connect the ground test probes of the scope to the mains input of your device.

STEFAN: Ali's device needs 30V AC input, doesn't it?  He wrote it in Reply #50..

rgds, Gyula

hartiberlin

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Re: New invention of motion less generation of electric power
« Reply #65 on: August 31, 2009, 10:27:33 PM »
Hi Ali,

I am sure you are careful but let me notice to use 1:1 mains isolator transformer for the oscilloscope or a 220V/30V transformer for your device to defend you equipment from braking down when connect the ground test probes of the scope to the mains input of your device.


YES, BE VERY CAREFUL when measuring without a 1:1 mains isolator transformer.
I also blew up a fuse when I forgot this once and it made a real loud bang and spark
and could have killed me...!!!

Quote
STEFAN: Ali's device needs 30V AC input, doesn't it?

rgds, Gyula

Well, as I have seen rectifier diodes and big caps at the input of his
circuit, I guess it could also work with pure DC input ?
I am still only guessing...
Ali is this right ?

As far as the TRIAC outputs only phase chopped AC it would
be surely wiser to first rectify this to DC  get a more stable input signal...
to work from on..
but I surely don´t know, how ALI´s circuit works yet....
« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 11:19:43 PM by hartiberlin »

gyulasun

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Re: New invention of motion less generation of electric power
« Reply #66 on: August 31, 2009, 10:30:29 PM »
Yes it needs 30V AC input, he wrote it in Reply #50 (top letter in previous page).

winsonali

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Re: New invention of motion less generation of electric power
« Reply #67 on: August 31, 2009, 11:26:44 PM »
yes  the circuit need 30 a/c volts to convert out put as 220

if i just feed directly 220 volts the out put will be 2000 volts +

i have blown many circuit while testing

to create siphon effect A/C supply is required

simple testing can be carried out by putting multi meter at 30 volts input line and a tongue tester to measure the current at the same time.

then test the output in the same way
it will be all clear in a min.

i am going to include inductor in the input to suppress the PF issue  and remove the watt meter for testing purpose


EMdevices

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Re: New invention of motion less generation of electric power
« Reply #68 on: September 01, 2009, 01:10:09 AM »
Stefan,   the "siphon" action that Ali is talking about is nothing more then a boost converter.   Just like water picks up speed down a tube so does current flowing through an inductor acquires "inertia" and when you disconnect the short, the magnetic field built up in the coil collapses and pushes the electrons further up in potential.  Old concepts.     Since he says he uses no transformers or inductors, he is making use of the inductance in the watt-meter current coil, or if he switches fast enough, any little stray inductance can play the part.   (notice what Ali' says in his last line above:    "I am going to include inductor in the input to suppress the PF issue  and remove the watt meter for testing purpose")  he needs an inductor otherwise switching power supplies don't work ! 


Another thing,  induction watt-meters are not designed to handle DC, it is strictly an AC instrument.  So if we get a average DC current to flow, it is apparent it will not register correctly.

To answer your question, he doesn't "fool" the triac, whatever that means,  all he has to do is only let current flow during one polarity only.  So when the AC waveform goes positive it will be off untill the triac turns on based on the phase, etc..,  then he can perform quick boost conversions, a rapid pulse train, then as the AC voltage waveform decreases in positve voltage and is about to change polarities, he stops the boost conversion  (which won't work anyway in reverse),  he just waits till the AC input waveform is positive again, and starts all over.   So,   conversion happens on only the positive cycles of the chopped AC input waveform.  This represents a DC current which won't register properly in the meter.

EM


hartiberlin

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Re: New invention of motion less generation of electric power
« Reply #69 on: September 01, 2009, 01:55:32 AM »
So EM, you think Ali is really drawing all the power from his gridline then
during the positive polarity wave , when the TRIAC conducts during the rest of the chopped
positive wave ?

How do scamming devices work, that reverse the turning of the Wattmeters
in principle , I wonder then ?
(Okay, it is not relevant to this thread, but maybe would help to understand
this device even more ?)

EMdevices

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Re: New invention of motion less generation of electric power
« Reply #70 on: September 01, 2009, 03:30:01 AM »
Stefan, the only way I know to reverse the direction of the induction watt-meter is to actually put energy back into the grid, and the watt-meter will turn backwards, as it indicates which way the power flows. (it's all about which is lagging, the current or the voltage)  People that have photovoltaic panels use this method of energy "storage" as it is cheaper than to have lots of batteries laying around.  In effect, the grid is a big battery that can absorb energy, so why not use it if you have excess power from solar panels during the day.  As far as tricks to reverse the meter, I'm not aware of any besides actually putting the power back.   

To answer your Ali question, yes, you got it, that's what I'm saying.

EM


markdansie

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Re: New invention of motion less generation of electric power
« Reply #71 on: September 01, 2009, 03:44:46 AM »
Hi Ali,
I will leave EM, Stephan and Dave to discuss with you ways of measuring and debate the explanations. they are far more qualified than me in these areas (if I had 10% of their knowledge I would be blessed)

However one things puzzles me, it is a question I ask when assessing any device that claims to generate or amplify energy. That is where is the extra energy comming from?

In the case of Black Light Power and the research at Rowan University, I can see how they have found a way to harness the conversion of hydrogen into a power source (they use a catylst to shrink the spin orbit of the electroton) and it is explainable.

However in your case I am not sure how you explian the extra energy being generated.
For instance we can turn mechanical work into electricity at lets say 90% efficency. We can turn that electricity back into work at say 80% efficency . That give us a loss of 28% overall. It is reasonable to asume we can recover a percentage of those losses by many means. But to go up by 400% needs explaining.

I mean no offence in anyway asking these questions in a simplistic way.

Mark

Goat

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Re: New invention of motion less generation of electric power
« Reply #72 on: September 01, 2009, 04:51:03 AM »
@ Ali

Please take no offense on the following suggestion.

Open a Paypal account with a donation button so I can donate to your cause.  If you have a prototype for other people here on the OU site to test I would be glad to donate some of my funds towards a test project.

Regards,
Paul

winsonali

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Re: New invention of motion less generation of electric power
« Reply #73 on: September 01, 2009, 06:07:25 AM »
Hi all,
The suggested circuit posted by EM is a simple DC to DC converter commonly available
they do not increase energy, the coil acts as unipolar transformer and back EMF generates an increase in elevated voltages stored in cap. and released after words highly freq. switching results in ripple free supply.
These type of circuits are commonly available from market place.
Net metering is the next issue discussed by fellows in net metering you have to inform power company. a feed back voltages to grid from DC to DC converters are not possible.
its also very clear from the video that its uncut and original so there is no possibility of any hidden battery or coil
EM definitely a very intelligent person  and trying to understand the working principle of the device but with an approach to find flaw, hidden gimmickry in device just like a magicians trick.... and its all natural ,when Tesla told everyone about AC current all DC lovers went against him its all written in history

a coil's back EMF/or transformer is not siphon coz transformer can step up or step down voltages, siphon is a one way phenomena, fruit for thoughts....

i think we should concentrate on practical demo where things unfold automatically rather then speculation
i am a practical result oriented person

for EM and others I have not carried out any synchronized switching with grid or switching in only one polarity
i am seriously thinking to develop a DC operated circuit as well 



 
 


winsonali

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Re: New invention of motion less generation of electric power
« Reply #74 on: September 01, 2009, 06:21:02 AM »
Mark i wrote this to Stefan few days ago....

====So how does this invention work ?
 
it works through software and follow a pattern of switching technology which boost the voltages from 30 volts to 220 volts but reduces current
during the process the the movement of electrons generates its own resonance and a more power out comes out
the principal is some thing like negative resistor but the technique used is different( i call this siphon)
this is my own theory which i have converted into practical means
 
a summary of my theory says;
 
electrons are present in every metallic body the can be aligned through various means
once they are aligned means they have attained potential difference the aligning force is directly proportional to the power,
the aligning forces are categorized in 2 different sub sets
1 motion less /solid or liquid state
2 magnetic or moving coils
 
my method falls under category number 1
where a further details can be sent to serious peoples