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Author Topic: Karl Palsness Hairpin circuit  (Read 50337 times)

BEP

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Re: Karl Palsness Hairpin circuit
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2010, 01:01:51 PM »
@Spiralout,

The link is to a great experiment and work but no indication it is a hairpin circuit. If the two rods are not one piece and bent into a hairpin shape the device is a replication of Lecher lines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lecher_lines

@Loner

I watched Karl's video again and still see no signs of anything that isn't produced by transverse waves.

The video link provided by @Spiralout even makes statements something like 'and this cannot happen with EM'. Sorry to say but in almost every case exactly the opposite is true. It is confirmation that transverse waves are at play. The only exception is near the end with the column of water being drawn with the wire. This related more to things not discussed in the video.

One of the big problems here is folks can't see the difference between RE and RF(radio frequency energy).
An example of radiant energy is the light or heat radiating from a light bulb (longitudinal or LEM). Radio frequency energy can be LEM or TEM (Transverse electro-magnetic like the ripples on a pond).
--- Not an FYI, Loner. Rather an FEEI (for everybody else's information) I know you know the difference

If the waves being sent up the Lecher lines were LEM the light being used for a shorting bar would not be brightest while the shorting bar is horizontal.

Folks get me wrong. I know LEM is possible and has the properties declared. I know Tesla was probably the greatest experimenter and inventor that ever lived. I also know Lecher invented this method and Tesla's hairpin circuit was a hairpin shape and included other things not shown by either of these videos.

Make no mistake. Both of these videos demonstrate the beginning of spark gap radio transmitter technology, hard and talented work but not much more.

stprue

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Re: Karl Palsness Hairpin circuit
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2010, 02:46:22 AM »
I'm finding myself youtube A at the moment.  What is the NST? stand for.
Neon Sign Transformer

stprue

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Re: Karl Palsness Hairpin circuit
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2010, 02:59:30 AM »
I keep hearing spark gap transmitters but what exactly are they capapble of?

Hairpin seems to include more then letcher concepts!!

Carls vids show energy...how much??? but lighting different filiments/watteges?? that is something i have not seen rf do!   but im not a radio guy....show me a radio wave powering something sig.,..not a signal!


stprue

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Re: Karl Palsness Hairpin circuit
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2010, 03:05:15 AM »
There is a reason Tesla brought this expieriment with him on all his public displays!

sparks

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Re: Karl Palsness Hairpin circuit
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2010, 04:11:53 AM »
lechter line or not Tesla did experiment with the identical set up.  The lemws are set up in the mass of the conductor.  Or the skin of the copper vertical rods.  These waves are nothing more than sound waves traveling through a charged mass media.  I believe that if the rods were bundles of smaller diameter wire or better yet laminated copper ribbons the effects would be greatly enhanced.  Anyway nodes and antinodes are setup where there are more electrons clumped together than at different spots in the copper mass.  This creates electrical poles.  The discharge of the electrical poles through the various loads  is a simple discharge of a capacitor.  Tesla also demonstrated this concept in this system of electrical distribution where he connects translatory devices between two conductors through which lems are setup.
The two conductors are resonant cavities for the sound waves.  They need not be connected at the top but can be.  They can be thousands of miles apart or right next to each other.  The polarization fo the resonant cavities will still occur geometrically along the rods.  The capacitor plates at the bottom are  being used as transducers.  This pings the rods.  Just like the ping for submarine detection.  It is an acoustical shock wave through the copper mass.  The electrostatic field between two capacitor plates creates an honest to goodness movement of the capacitor plates depenidng on the state of charge.  Tesla exploited the columb force over and over again with mechanical oscillators coupled to electrical magnetic oscillator circuits.  This is how a Tesla secondary is coupled to a primary.  His primaries are speakers.

stprue

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Re: Karl Palsness Hairpin circuit
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2010, 08:59:21 PM »
lechter line or not Tesla did experiment with the identical set up.  The lemws are set up in the mass of the conductor.  Or the skin of the copper vertical rods.  These waves are nothing more than A waves traveling through a charged mass media.  I believe that if the rods were bundles of smaller diameter wire or better yet laminated copper ribbons the effects would be greatly enhanced.  Anyway nodes and antinodes are setup where there are more electrons clumped together than at different spots in the copper mass.  This creates electrical poles.  The discharge of the electrical poles through the various loads  is a simple discharge of a capacitor.  Tesla also demonstrated this concept in this system of electrical distribution where he connects translatory devices between two conductors through which lems are setup.
The two conductors are resonant cavities for the sound waves.  They need not be connected at the top but can be.  They can be thousands of miles apart or right next to each other.  The polarization fo the resonant cavities will still occur geometrically along the rods.  The capacitor plates at the bottom are  being used as transducers.  This pings the rods.  Just like the ping for submarine detection.  It is an acoustical shock wave through the copper mass.  The electrostatic field between two capacitor plates creates an honest to goodness movement of the capacitor plates depenidng on the state of charge.  Tesla exploited the columb force over and over again with mechanical oscillators coupled to electrical magnetic oscillator circuits.  This is how a Tesla secondary is coupled to a primary.  His primaries are speakers.
Sparks I think you may be one of the most knowledgable people around!  I can barely keep up .

MrMag

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Re: Karl Palsness Hairpin circuit
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2010, 02:53:50 AM »
I'm sorry, but I don't agree with BEP or sparks. It is not RF according to BEP and definitely not sound wave according to Sparks. Sparks also mentions that it is a simple discharge of a capacitor. How then would you explain that when a shorting bar is placed on the top of the two brass rods, the effect is enhanced. I really think there is more to it. I plan on building one myself to play with.


Quote From Karl Palsness

The first clue to this experiment shown is that the spark gap, the spark changes when conversion is taking place. What does this tell you? It's spark looks different and sounds different. The conventional spark such as in the ignition circuit of a furnace is feeble , it can be blown out easy and is very quiet. But it you properly transform the energy...the spark now consists of many streamers and is very loud and not easily interrupted. It also looks different in color and texture.

Another major clue you can touch the bar with the Hairpin with caps on each side of the hairpin! On the Hairpin with the caps on only one side you should not touch it as the bar is not isolated from the high voltage and it will bite you. Your body is to high in resistance to allow anything through. Again what does this tell you? You can learn a lot from building this design, don't say you know anything unless you have replicated and see and ask yourself the questions.

The energy travels on the outside of the wire...just like a gas!!! If this was skin effect you would not be able to put the bare wires into water and light a bulb...the salt water would short out the skin effect. So again...we can not meter this energy and there is no solution for current flow at any simultaneous point in time. Tesla strove to for transformed resonance. The smaller the resistance or the impedance of the conducting path and the more perfect the dielectric the better this process became.

High voltage energy not converted burns your hands when you touch the wire...just try and touch an ham radio antenna even at low power. I am a armature radio operator and can tell you it hurts...real bad!!

You can do many different effects once the transformation has taken place, light light bulbs, run motors, but only if no energy is allowed to return and kill the initial input you put in. There must be a floating ground to catch this energy. The energy is all around us in a compressed form, we live in the middle of two giant plates of a capacitor, wiggle it correctly, then catch it!

If it was just high frequency voltage why did Tesla spend so much time learning how to transform this energy. I'll tell you why, he was a great studier on what happened just before the current got through to the other end of the wire. If we could see this energy we would have had it a long time ago. But are meters don't show this!!! So instead we make high frequency generators....constantly killing the dipole.

To me, Tesla made the Hairpin and demonstrated it in his lectures to show the transformed energy and what this energy can and cannot do. It is simply is a learning tool and shows us how to work with it. Energy is everywhere once the condition of this form of resonance.


What people have to figure out on this hairpin, is the quality of the dielectric capacitors. When I use smaller different high voltage caps the device does not convert all the energy...use to different bigger caps and the caps can not play a role and no transformation takes place. The ability to find the correct balance of quality dielectric material and small impedance/resistance and of Impulse freq. is absolutely crucial in this process.

There are many ways to deal with this form of conversion once you understand the rules and what to look for. The key is Disruptive Discharges of Differentials of Potential. Whether we are talking about Radiant, bidirectional longitudinal waves, Scalar or any other name we want to put onto it...we are using a coupling of vectors where it does not makes since for electrons to move! Once you see this, you will understand that Joules Law is not involved and how this is Nature's open path for getting energy. There are potentials everywhere, but the true energy is what comes before the dipole is created.

forest

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Re: Karl Palsness Hairpin circuit
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2010, 07:06:34 PM »
Eek!?

forest

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Re: Karl Palsness Hairpin circuit
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2010, 07:09:39 PM »
"The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane."

Nikola Tesla

Tito L. Oracion

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Re: Karl Palsness Hairpin circuit
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2010, 12:41:31 PM »
"The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane."

Nikola Tesla

ya you're right, you're always right.  ;D

forest

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Re: Karl Palsness Hairpin circuit
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2010, 02:41:17 PM »
I will say shortly because it's become tiring
Tesla found RF and was first enthusiastic about it especially with light phenomena and new phosphorescent bulbs. Then in 1895 everything changed. I would like to know if he knew about Edison etheric force articles ,that would be interesting. However  from 1895 it was NO RF produced in Tesla devices, never ever.Keep it and think about it.

BEP

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Re: Karl Palsness Hairpin circuit
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2010, 03:31:37 PM »
"High voltage energy not converted burns your hands when you touch the wire...just try and touch an ham radio antenna even at low power. I am a armature radio operator and can tell you it hurts...real bad!!"

I have.....many times....it depends upon where it is touched, the frequency, the type of antenna, etc. If Karl was really a HAM he would know this. If he is, he must have a ticket from a country that doesn't report licensing. He isn't recorded in the U.S. or Canadian databases.

Since Tesla was declared the true father of radio I think there is a pretty good chance some of his later devices emitted RF. Declaring that nothing he built after a certain date produced RF is a pretty bold statement. Time travel with a spectrum analyzer would confirm this.

Stop the arguing and believe no one. Either run the experiments or don't pollute the thoughts and beliefs of others. I'm not interested in repeating my experiments for the benefit of others. They wouldn't believe the results anyway. When religious fervor is at this level the 'armature radio operators' won't believe their own results -or- they simply won't understand them.

This dog is done barking up this tree. Nothing worth catching here.

sparks

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Re: Karl Palsness Hairpin circuit
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2010, 04:43:55 PM »
   Bep you know radios and standing wave ratios and the heating effects or power losses due to internodal  currents flowing inside the coax when you dont have a match.  If you give an alternate discharge path for the internodal currents your heating effect does useful work.  You know what happens to finals when the swr gets to high.  You know why they had to go to cyclotrons when they tried to pump microwaves.

BEP

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Re: Karl Palsness Hairpin circuit
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2010, 05:05:45 PM »
   Bep you know radios and standing wave ratios and the heating effects or power losses due to internodal  currents flowing inside the coax when you dont have a match.  If you give an alternate discharge path for the internodal currents your heating effect does useful work.  You know what happens to finals when the swr gets to high.  You know why they had to go to cyclotrons when they tried to pump microwaves.

Yes, I do. All of that. Except the cyclotron part. They aren't required to 'pump' microwaves. Microwave cavities of almost all forms, in addition to waveguides, can result in longitudinal EM action.

The conversion that happens is to heat, primarily.

I'm not saying Tesla was wrong, by any means. I'm saying he had a more in-depth understanding of all these things and a different base of knowledge. Since we don't have the same points of reference his works are like translating a different language. 

What pains me is people attempting replications of his experiments and declaring something that is easily explained with basic wave propagation principles as something it isn't. More painful is folks repeating the work and not even understanding what they see. The most painful, is when folks don't do the work, obviously have no understanding of basics and think they have the right to make declarations.

Enough of my yapping. I'll excuse myself from this thread. I shouldn't have even entered this comment.

 

albert

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Re: Karl Palsness Hairpin circuit
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2010, 06:57:54 PM »
well, I have been thinking about the Hairpin now for some time. I see the analogy to a laser. You create a standing wave in the resonator and out comes a different form of energy. I have seen other demonstrations where they lit a 120 V/100W halogen bulb on a hair thin wire across the room with the hairpin. Is this just RF? for the filament to glow this bright you need AMPS.
The hairpin is different from the lecher line. This is usually demonstrated by using semiconductors or a small solid state transmitter as the input. Tesla used the stuff available to him at the time- spark gaps and " brute force". A spark gap is a broad band emitter. the fact that the spark intensifies shows that the energy is reflected in the hairpin circuit and back thru the spark gap. Let me make the connection to Hector torrez (the rotoverter guy) who says that Radiant is RF - created in a resonator with a standing wave where voltage and current are out of phase. this is the effect happening in the hairpin- you get voltage and current nodes - so far nothing exotic- but what is the nature of the energy in these nodes? can there be voltage without current or just current without voltage? what will happen when one applies this energy to a water cell for instance?
I think the hairpin is  probably the easiest way to create larger amounts of RE. Correct me if I'm wrong- I'm just a layman, but I'd like to know more about this.
BTW: I work in a theater where we use Thyristor dimmers. Years ago we had problems when we connected only a small load to the dimmer the thyristor would burn out. could this because the leads make up a transmission line, the energy gets reflected back into the circuit instead of being used at the end of the line. You have caps and a choke coil as parts of the dimmer, and the way the dimmer works is to turn off the power at a certain point and then turn it on again. This makes for sharp edges of the waveform and a lot of harmonics....so all the ingredients are there...why should a 2 kilowatt thyristor with TWO fuses in both lines burn out when the load is not strong enough??