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Author Topic: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe  (Read 19217 times)

Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2009, 06:40:03 PM »
I would not be surprised if there was also an vortex effect, first enforced and then supported, by the internal vortex shape of the funnel. A few ridges might do the trick?

Mounting the funnel such , on a horizontally rotating frame, such that opening always "sees" that vertical pivot axis right in front, should already ensure being dead straight into the wind, I would think. This pivoting can be on top, or right at the base.

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Offline PhiScience

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Re: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2009, 10:34:00 PM »
  It looks like the pivot point is at the base using a Turntable bearing like one of these http://www.mcmaster.com/#turntables/=3cy73z

Also from the article on http://www.green-energy-news.com/arch/nrgs2009/20090064.html it says that the inventor is no stranger to inventions and patenting. He’s the world’s leading patent holder (at least 78 patents) on RFID (Radio Frequency Identification devices) alone and about 30 more patents in the pipeline including on the WindPipe technology.

The inventor John R. Tuttle is also the Chief Executive Officer of DayStar Technologies, Inc. http://www.daystartech.com 

He graduated from Cornell University (B.S. - Engineering Physics), the Colorado School of Mines (M.S. - Physics), and the University of Colorado (Ph.D. - Electrical Engineering). Dr. Tuttle held the position of Senior Scientist at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, where he was responsible for process and device development activities relating to thin-film solar cells.

So no dummy here, his claims are probably very believable.   

Offline exxcomm0n

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Re: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2009, 11:57:34 PM »
@ infringer

That is a novel idea that I hope comes to fruition for you, but that's not how I saw a "no moving parts" (which has been clarified to "no rotating parts") wind generator.

The first thing to pop into my head was electrostatic collection using Bernoulli's venturi effect as the motive force, with or without an electret attraction (like the heat/charge treated coaxial cable which as has long been theorized about).
It would have some significant challenges to overcome to be a generator that could furnish usable output (High V/ low A output, V/A conversion losses, switching polarities, humidity, etc.), but this "armchair dream" came to mind (since I really don't have a decent enough grasp of electronics to theorize competently).

What if you mounted a pipe vertically that was 20' (approx. 6+ M) long with both ends open to the atmosphere and used the wind speed differential within that 20' to draw the air though one end of the tube using the venturi effect?
It's omni-directional (NSEW) and doesn't have to move to face the wind. Air moves up/down through the pipe too depending on which end has the greater wind speed and lower pressure.
I suppose you could shield one end (the lower) from the wind to make the venturi effect unidirectional pulling air through from the earth side of the pipe.

The static electricity charge could then be collected by lining the inside of the pipe with a conductive screen as inductors/collectors to create/capture the ionic charges from the moving air.

How does it do that?
(Here's where the armchair really takes off.)

One theory would be that the inventor of this tech has conquered the electret issue and forms the pipe that way so the differential
ionic charges can be collected.
If that's the case, this guy has a "trade secret" in the formation of the electret and the collection method used, but.....

....what if you made it like a kelvin water drop generator using ionic charges of the particles in the air (so it still generates when there's high humidity or rain) instead of water?
Consider the linear kelvin water drop generator here:

http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/emotor/ikelv.html

               ______
                \       /  Grounded
         _____\    /   Funnel
        |           ||    w/shower head
        V          ||
                    /\
             __________
       __ /    \         /   \ _________________o
      |    |___|____|___|
      |                                    Output leads
      |                                    __________o
      |     __________             |
      |    /    \.. .. .. /   \ ______|
      |    |___|____|___|           |
      |                                   |
      |                                   |
      |        ______                 |
      |        \        / Grounded  |
      |     ___\     /     Funnel   |  Connect the bundt pans
      |    |        ||                     |  together using bare wires
      |   V        ||                     |  and tape, or using alligator
      |             /\                     |  clipleads found at Radio
      |                                    |  Shack stores
      |     __________             |
      |    /    \        /    \ ______|
      |    |___|____|___|
      |
      |     __________
      |__ /    \.. .. ../    \
           |___|____|___|

<ASCII art stolen from above site.>

Instead of using funnels and bundt cake pans, if you took wire screen and lined the inside of the pipe with pieces of it insulated from each other and corresponding with the electrical connections of the funnels/pans above that you could use the motive force of the wind instead of gravity causing water to fall to create this effect.

Like this?

  WIND                     ------------------------>

 AIRFLOW                            ----------->
                                          ^
                                   ____|____
                                    |#    |    #|
 screen lining(#) ----->     |#    ^    #|  ---------------------
                                    |#    |    #|                         |
     insulator(<>)----->      |<    ^   >|                         |
                                    |#    |    #|                         |
          output--->       -----|#... ^...#|                         |
          screen          |      |#    |    #|                         |
              two          |      |<   ^    >|                         |
                             |      |#    |    #|                         |
                             |      |#   ^    #|-----                    | 
                             |      |#    |    #|      !                  |
                             |      |<   ^    >|      !                  |
                             |      |#    |    #|      ```!               |  wired to
                             |      |#... ^ ...#|--------!---------------|     earth
                             |      |#    |    #|       ..!               |   ground   
                             |      |<   ^    >|      !                  |
                             |      |#    |    #|      !                  |
                             |      |#...^ ...#|------  <--output    |
                             |      |#    |    #|             screen   |
                             |      |<   ^    >|               one    |
                             |      |#    |    #|                         |
                               -----|#   ^    #|                         |
                                    |#    |    #|                         |
                                    |<   ^    >|                         |
                                    |#    |    #|                         |
                                    |#   ^    #| -----------------------
                                    |#    |    #|
                                      ````^````
                                         ^ ^                                           SKY
                                       |   |   |                                           ^
  AIRFLOW                      ^  ^  ^                                           |
                                    |      |      |                                        |
                                  ^   ^  ^  ^   ^                                       |
   ->------->------->-------^          ^         ^-------<------<------<-    GROUND
-------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------


This design has a few other problems besides polarity switching and V/A transformation of the kelvin generator. What happens if it starts raining and the rain drops (ionic particle) start traveling (moved by gravity) against the humidity/dust (ionic particle) in the ground to sky airflow and it starts working as a classic kelvin generator? What happens if much faster airflow happens ground side and reverses the venturi? Can you flare one end of the pipe into a cone to prevent that type of backflow?

Whew! The armchair kinda took off there, but that's how I'd see a no moving parts wind generation scheme.
If you could incorporate an electret into the scheme such as was produced here:

http://www.esdjournal.com/static/shower/shower.html

(read this too)

http://www.nuenergy.org/alt/radiant_energy_diatribe.htm

the screen lining of the inside of the pipe becomes MUCH less involved as the electret acts as the inductor, but most homebrew attempts at electret making seem to report failure.

Since he's "made his name" in RFID during experimentation with them he found a way to make a efficient electret using electrostatic  electrical traces like those used to mass produce RFID antennas?

As to how the collected current could be transformed into a lower volt-higher amp usable current is the biggest stumbling block for all electrostatic devices as efficiencies run about 15-20% for spark gap/coil/transformer.

Just some not-so-grounded-in-reality guesses.....

;)

EDIT: Getting the ASCII art to show up correctly was a BIT**!
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 01:02:17 AM by exxcomm0n »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2009, 11:57:34 PM »
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Offline infringer

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Re: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2009, 02:10:40 AM »
Better grab a snickers on the frutation part lol I have only two componnents of my puzzle...

But I really enjoy everyone feedback on this device and I thank each and everyone of you.

Venturi effect is an interesting effect indeed, but seeing he made thin film solar it seems as if he is taking old tech and revamping it to make it cheaper not doing nothing too out of the box so to speak actually there are plenty of start up solar places that are doing the film solar or printable solar and the electrosparse S series ink is nearly impossible to find!

I've looked for days to find a supplier! And settled on using silicon for now. And I don't believe prices will be much better for the consumer until a few years down the road as all the friggin big corps and gov. have the stuff on back order for the next year or better!

BACK ON TRACK HERE

So back pressure may be an issue I maybe but in thinking it may make the mags bounce that much more...

We want maximum movement. This is a test run anyways will consist of 3 coils and heavy mags bouncing up and down.

Its a new fresh idea worthy of testing and the cheapness of this thing is crazy ...

Any coil winders out there to share there experiences with coil winding bahhh hell I'm never going to learn if I don't do the coil testing myself I suppose.

I was hoping I could tempt someone into building with me so I do not have to go it alone but I will be checking back daily for anything that sticks out to add to the design. I could change the pressure by drilling a few holes at the bottom maybe swiss cheese pattern... Though I don't wish to ruin the structure either and weaken it but I will continue to work at it....


I wonder if it isn't black to to make use of the hot air rising as well to maximize output by causing hot air to rise during the heat of day...

Exxcomm0n I cannot believe you did not break out the straws  and the mini mags and do a small scale :P You are the master in testing something with nothing.

Take care all I will check back probably several times a day.

EDIT:
Those bearings you point out look like savonius wind turbine bearings aka lazy susan bearings ... very interesting you point that out Phiscince ...

Cloxxi don't give up man I could be all wrong that is why I am sharing all I can before the build bud I may have it all wrong you don't need much to move magnets that are repelling each other a slight tap is all that is required really so six of them stacked will give you a bit of movement or bounce up and down as the air enters the tube and exits the pressure both back and inward should cause a consistant bounce with a little wind.

Take a strand of fishing line tie the acrylic rod at the end and hang it from a tree with a coil wrapped around it and a wing that would catch the wind and cause it to swing and the mags should bounce and generate power similar.

« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 02:51:17 AM by infringer »

Offline infringer

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Re: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2009, 01:52:17 AM »
UPDATE:

Got the acrylic rods in the mail today along with the mags holy talk about cool it preforms as expected with bounce ...

Should be in for an interesting project!


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2009, 01:52:17 AM »
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Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2009, 08:40:50 AM »
UPDATE:

Got the acrylic rods in the mail today along with the mags holy talk about cool it preforms as expected with bounce ...

Should be in for an interesting project!

very cool indeed!

keep us updated. post pics/vids.

peace

Offline infringer

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Re: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2009, 02:30:21 AM »
I really need to purchase a video camera... Any suggestions on a cheaper but worthy High Definition Camcorder that supports SDHC 32GB and records to x264... Only thing I can think of is the flip but that is only 720P I'd prefer 1080...

Truth be told the better the source the better the encode.

I finally split apart all my mags the other day during testing when I repacked them they all stuck together good thing I had a metal shelf with thin bars press real hard at the between they will both split and be stuck to each side of the thin metal bar then you slide one up the bar and pull it off set it a safe distance away and then take the remaining mag off the other side of the bar ... I was stuck for an hour trying to figure on how to part them all again.

Little tip for handling magnets" ;)


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Re: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2009, 02:30:21 AM »
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Offline infringer

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Re: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2009, 02:36:49 AM »
SIDE NOTE:

The base of this unit looks big I am starting to wonder if the axial flux generation method is not used here... By that I mean two sets of mags and coils in the middle it looks almost as if the mags could fit in the bottom ... Just a side note to myself so I don't forget the possibility.

Offline infringer

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Re: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2009, 07:06:03 PM »

Going to purchase parts today...

PVC for coil winding and PVC for device...

Magnet diameter is 1"

PVC for coil winding 1 1/4" OD

PVC for housing coils and mags 1 1/2" for starters maybe a bit smaller 1 3/8 or 1 7/16 ID may prove more useful ...

PVC T  splitter and a joint for connection with a cap.

Rubber cement.

Black glossy spray paint.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2009, 07:06:03 PM »
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Offline infringer

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Re: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2009, 03:34:14 PM »
EDIT NOT APPLICABLE!
« Last Edit: August 30, 2009, 07:10:12 PM by infringer »

Offline infringer

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Re: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2009, 05:21:52 PM »
Parts list and build guide will arrive in the near future!

I will try and list all parts with online links but I would suggest using local places for some things if you can!

Take care good people! Once completed I will post full disclosure.

But I have a what I believe to be a concrete method of wind generation now one that is less costly then this and should be even easier to build and generate more power but ... I may seek a patent or seek some kind of funding for that one I've spent a lot of time and money tinkering while I love the open source I just would like to be able to continue my work and afford to fix my car as the service engine soon light just came on expense I've already dumped 5grand into it over the last year and still haven't got body work or paint job done.

missing one last key element the reducer for the wind funnel...

In order to take full advantage of the wind I am afraid you need a funnel that goes from large to exact size of the pipe diameter this way you are forcing air into the tube at a higher velocity then the wind speed. This is the key to pressurization inside of the tube
« Last Edit: August 30, 2009, 08:09:19 PM by infringer »

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Re: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2009, 05:21:52 PM »
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Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2009, 03:19:53 PM »
Applying for a patent can be pretty quick. Do it to keep big oil out of your face. After you've applied, there's heaps of time to work on it in an open source environment. At least the way I understand it.
Get your name on the invention via a patent application (quick and cheap), then spread it open source, and go for the Nobel Prize. If you want money, a wind generator with your name on it will be like a "real" one. Become the Sikorsky of wind generation.
Once you have an OU or really efficient renewable source technolgy, really, the money will come in due time. No way the patent will make you rich just by being granted first. Before you have a grant, your name could be on hundreds of industrial size units already.

Offline infringer

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Re: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2009, 01:03:06 AM »
LOL

Nobel Prize ...

Patent hehe sounds just like a waste of time who knows though....

hrmmm anyhow waiting on some parts should have them this week some time.

Everyone here is for achievement of the masses as an end result I guess I will continue to spend spend spend! After all everyone has one or more costly hobby.

I hope this venture works out for those interested stay tuned should be complete within the next couple weeks.

Enjoy and take care all.

Jump in let me hear your wind design!

Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2009, 06:39:13 PM »
So a few ideas went through my head and I realize you can produce electricity from sound by simply blowing into a piezoelectric device, like an earphone. I had one with my Radio Shack (now The Shack) electronics kit. I took the earphone, hooked it up to a voltage meter, and blew into it. With steady exhilation into the earpiece I could maintain over one volt. Sound to electricity.

When wind is funneled into a small pipe the velocity shoots up. This could easily be used to generate a tone of sound. Musicians do it all the time.

So a microphone, or speaker, or earphone type device in the pipe could generate electricity. The higher the velocity the more energy produced.

This article may be related:

http://www.ask.com/bar?q=generate+electricity+from+sound&page=1&qsrc=66&ab=0&title=A%20Sound%20Way%20To%20Turn%20Heat%20Into%20Electricity&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedaily.com%2Freleases%2F2007%2F06%2F070603225026.htm

Just a few ideas.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 09:21:24 PM by ResinRat2 »

Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Wind Turbine Competitor Steps in well maybe? Enter Wind Pipe
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2009, 07:07:23 PM »
Nice idea.
A Rodin Coil might come in handy. It was found by the US military to be an efficient antenna, and I've seen vid's where it's a speaker when hooked up to an amplifier. The other way around, it's bound to work as well. Stick a Rodin Coil, or a bunch of them, in the turbine. I bet if you get the air to twist to match the Rcoil, you'll get the most power out of it.
If this really works, sound could be harvested on a crowded square in the city, and make it a less hostile and tiresome place to be. Sonic mirrors on the building, or billboards for that matter, directing sound to the sound turbin.
For really big power consumption, it may not be best though. Sound is diffuse, and a wind turbine is local, it seems to me.
It would be cool to place a sound havester along the straight of Indianapolis Speedway, and light more lasers, LRDs or otherwise, according to input volume.

 

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