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Author Topic: Back to Basics  (Read 150247 times)

Mk1

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2009, 10:04:08 PM »
I am sorry i do not have enough time to moderate any threads.

You can always start with these two elements:

Bring them close togheter play with it ,and think about the up side down issue.
Introduce other metals and think about why it detunes the device.
Also OTTO think about your core!!!

The ferrite rod antenna concentrates the magnetic component of radio waves.
But it also concentrates the earths field...It makes visible what it realy looks like, and that isn't what a compass shows, at all..

This is simple stuff let me know what you find, then we can compare our results.

Marco.

Image Source:
http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/antennas/ferrite_rod_antenna/ferrite_rod_antenna.php
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ferrite_antenna.jpg


@marco

Are you really saying what i think ...

The compass dose show a constant field , we all live in that field so everything should be contained within a directional field , that field kicks back when under electrical/magnetic stress ...

If we have a constant directional field we should have direction in current  too ...


Grumpy

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #61 on: August 17, 2009, 01:33:46 AM »
momentary angular movement of a few degrees - ccw - northern hemisphere

everything vertical

pretty sure it is only during the change, and this would be expected

(used a 3/8" bolt as I do not have a suitable ferrite)

     


EMdevices

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #62 on: August 17, 2009, 02:09:27 AM »
guys, would something like this work?

Use a magnet instead of a ferrite, the reason being that its magnetic domains are already saturated and aligned, and so it will act as a nonlinear device, and MIX two different frequencies.

The external frequency is 5 kHz  (from the earth, power lines, radio tower, etc.....)
The driving frequency is 20 kHz   (simple timer driving MOSFET, with some zener protection)
The output is the resonant tank tuned to 25 kHz,

Since the core is nonlinear (magnet)  it will mix 5 and 20 kHz to produce 15 and 25 kHz, but the output tank is tuned to 25 kHz, so this is the only frequency that will be amplified and highly resonant.   It's output power should be more than what we put in due to the external contribution.

Just throwing out ideas, sorry if I'm off topic.

EM

P.S.  Or maybe a bias magnet/ferrite arrangement will give us that nonlinear core that we need here. (see second picture)

EMdevices

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #63 on: August 17, 2009, 03:11:21 AM »
wow, this info is dynamite, look at this link,  this has to be what is occurring in the TPUs, this could be the high Q method that is being implemented.  The collector wires have to be magnetostrictive (nickel perhaps?, iron?) I wish SM would confirm for sure what those wires are made of.  Even the topology of using two coils  (transmitter and receiver) could make sense in his TPUs.  Hmm, I need to explore these concepts some more, time to take out the tool box again.

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gadgets/high-tech-gadgets/anti-shoplifting-device5.htm

Quote
AM material is highly magnetostrictive, which means that when you put the tag material in a magnetic field, it physically shrinks. The higher the magnetic field strength the smaller the metal becomes. The metal actually shrinks about one-thousandth of an inch over its full 1.50 inch length.

As a result of driving the tag with a magnetic field, the tag is physically getting smaller and larger. So if it is driven at a mechanically resonant frequency, it works like a tuning fork, absorbing energy and beginning to ring.

This tag also requires bias magnet material in addition to active element material. The active material will shrink no matter which direction the magnetic field is placed upon it. If the tag is driven with Frequency, F, it gets smaller as the magnetic field increases and larger as it's driven towards zero. This means that while it is being driven at F, the tag is trying to work at 2F, because at both positive and negative halves of the drive signal, the tag is getting smaller. To get the tag to work at F, a bias field is required. The bias is provided by a semi-hard magnetic element in the label. When magnetized, the bias prevents the active element from ever being in a zero field condition. So for an entire half of the drive signal, the tag shrinks. Then it expands for the other half. This results in an F response.

EM

BEP

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #64 on: August 17, 2009, 02:01:27 PM »
@EM

I have no doubt magnetostriction plays a part in a TPU. There is a very good chance this part is key.

Please do remember that one important key about a magnetostrictive oscillator is the fact that the main resonant frequency is that of the core material, not the coils or tanks surrounding it.

This can easily put you into the very low frequencies. Also, if this deformation is going around in a circle there is a better chance you can amplify it. Talk about the frequencies being dependent upon the circumference!

Grumpy

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #65 on: August 17, 2009, 03:38:35 PM »
Definitely not magnetostriction.

BEP

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #66 on: August 17, 2009, 07:04:46 PM »
Maybe not. I have enough movement problems with no ferrous materials in my current build. A current carrying wire in a static magnetic field moves with a change in current.
Change the dielectric field around that same wire, in a rotary fashion, also within a static magnetic field for more movement.

Grumpy

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #67 on: August 17, 2009, 08:06:26 PM »
Maybe not. I have enough movement problems with no ferrous materials in my current build. A current carrying wire in a static magnetic field moves with a change in current.
Change the dielectric field around that same wire, in a rotary fashion, also within a static magnetic field for more movement.

 ;D

sparks

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #68 on: August 19, 2009, 05:50:52 AM »
  A ferrous material will absorb hf and alter the frequency of radiation by a spin precession through the atomic lattice of the metal.  Basically knocking the atoms out of spin resonance without having to accelerate anything.  Good frequency converter if the magnetic crystal is arranged properly.

Grumpy

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #69 on: August 19, 2009, 07:32:43 PM »
I know everyone has heard of "electromagnetic induction", but has anyone ever heard of "nonmagnetic induction"? (excluding electrostatic induction)

I found this old 1999 post by Graham Gunderson of MPI (now Chava):

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/usa-tesla/message/3412

Interesting.

What actually occurs during "induction"?  Is it really the magnetic field that is causing the induced current, or is it something else and the magnetic field just appears to be the cause?

I wonder if the middle of a bar magnet - the Bloch wall - will induce current to flow in a wire...

Remember the Wheatstone experiment with the three sparks?  Can induction occur before the two flowing energies travel past each other (or whatever they do)?

(I know these are not basic questions.)

innovation_station

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #70 on: August 19, 2009, 08:08:17 PM »
grumpy are you sedjusting that we smack a neo with a coil in the center of the neo and manipulate the flux of the neo via hivoltage cap discharge ... 

hummmm

lot of engery in a cap when released all at once ... all fast like ...  if the neo isnt flying across the room ...  then i bet the flux is .....   

ist!!

but what if i powered 2 coils stacked aircore ...  will i get a gryo effect cuz the high speed switching and the air core...  if i do then i could tap the electro magic feilds ..

i could even use IRON WIRE TO COLLECT IT.....   

 ;D   might help to contain it too...

Grumpy

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #71 on: August 19, 2009, 09:58:38 PM »
grumpy are you sedjusting that we smack a neo with a coil in the center of the neo and manipulate the flux of the neo via hivoltage cap discharge ... 

No. I am suggesting to use the initial energy that manifest in a circuit (which allows a magnetic field to manifest in the first place) rather than a magnetic field.

What I'm talking about is using the induction-like response of a conductor to this intitial energy which causes the electrons to flow.   Make "something" that puts out this initial energy and allows you to utilize it.  If you think that this initial energy is not "inductive", then how do transients fom lightning induce such massive currents in long wires?  How do solar flares overload capacitors?

BEP

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #72 on: August 19, 2009, 10:14:25 PM »
I know everyone has heard of "electromagnetic induction", but has anyone ever heard of "nonmagnetic induction"? (excluding electrostatic induction)

Then it would be 'momentum induction'. I'm sure there are other explanations but it is basically momentum being transferred from one body to another. Even if the primary is fed with A.C. the output is mostly D.C.

Even if the magnetic field of the primary crosses the secondary there is little to no effect, by the magnetic field from the primary, on the secondary. The reason is the primary and secondary are either perpendicular to one another or there is a magnetic barrier between them.

There was an old Westinghouse transformer patent showing separate toroidal primary with multiple secondaries. The secondaries were poloidal to the primary and had their own cores. All toroids were designed to enclose its own magnetic field within its core.

It was claimed to be much more efficient than common transformers with no transfer of electromagnetic noise from primary to secondary.

Grumpy

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #73 on: August 19, 2009, 11:16:09 PM »
Then it would be 'momentum induction'. I'm sure there are other explanations but it is basically momentum being transferred from one body to another. Even if the primary is fed with A.C. the output is mostly D.C.

Even if the magnetic field of the primary crosses the secondary there is little to no effect, by the magnetic field from the primary, on the secondary. The reason is the primary and secondary are either perpendicular to one another or there is a magnetic barrier between them.

There was an old Westinghouse transformer patent showing separate toroidal primary with multiple secondaries. The secondaries were poloidal to the primary and had their own cores. All toroids were designed to enclose its own magnetic field within its core.

It was claimed to be much more efficient than common transformers with no transfer of electromagnetic noise from primary to secondary.

Once again, BEP, you come through loud and clear.

BEP

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Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #74 on: August 19, 2009, 11:37:30 PM »
Once again, BEP, you come through loud and clear.

Can I put a gold star on my calendar?  ;D

Seriously...

I use this.  Make yourself a simple coil. Instead of a ferrous core use a conductive core. Bang the coil with A.C., D.C., pulses, whatever. Read the voltage from one end of the conductive core to the other and note the polarity. It will be very small.

Now connect that core in series with the coil so the measured core polarity works 'with' the applied polarity of the coil for pulsed D.C.

When current is going through the coil it 'induces' the same direction current into the core which 'induces' the same current direction in the coil, etc., etc., etc.

No. This example won't give you free energy and it works better if the coil is canceling bifilar  :)

If you wrap a few turns of wire on a short piece of wire don't expect much  :P
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 12:15:17 AM by BEP »