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Author Topic: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER  (Read 400754 times)

Offline allcanadian

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #195 on: October 27, 2010, 06:34:03 AM »
@Crankypants
Quote
The winding is made of two separate wires wound in opposing directions along an insulating form and connected in parallel at the ends. Since there are the same number of turns of wire in either direction, the magnetic fields of the two wires cancel each other out, so the coil has little inductance.

THIS IS ANALOGOS TO TWO IDENTICAL TWINS IN A ROWBOAT - EACH PADLING IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS WITH EQUAL FORCE. THE NET EFFECT IS ZERO MOVEMENT BUT THE FORCES ARE STILL PRESENT.

I like your analogies however I do not think anyone here has yet to grasp what your talking about in your posts which is really a shame. I have been working along similar lines in developing various generators and hybrid drive systems. I guess part of the reason I made this post here is that I use the same rowboat analogy,lol, and I find it kind of amazing how simple mechanical analogies can bring a great deal of understanding to what appears to be complex problems which usually turn out to be simple problems. One of my favorites is the reactive mass problem---
I am in a rowboat and I throw a bowling ball out of the back of the rowboat which is equal in mass to myself and the rowboat, I accelerate forward at the same rate as the bowling ball accelerates backwards, the momentum is split. As well we can throw the bowling ball over the back of the boat at a higher velocity but really we just end up throwing the ball "away" at a faster rate and the ball has energy intrinsic to it's velocity. Now some might say this action/reaction is the total energy of the system but of course this is a false assumption because I could just as easily throw the ball backwards into the back of another boat and we both move in opposite directions or if I throw the ball backwards very fast which then hits a trampoline attached to a second boat imparting a force and then it bounces the ball forward and it lands back in my boat which is the same boat it initially left. If my boat moving forwards is the total reaction to the bowling ball leaving my boat backwards then how in the hell can the ball end up back in my boat?, lol.
Here is another brain twister, I am in a rocket in orbit and I want to go to the moon so I fire a bowling ball out of the back at great speed and I move forward towards the moon due to the "reaction" which is basically how a rocket works. Now if the bowling ball was fired towards the earth and was accelerated due to the "slingshot" effect of earths gravity, made one half orbit and accelerated back towards me in my rocket and struck the back of my rocket then what is the "total" reaction force? You see everything goes to hell in a handbasket when "open" systems are considered and that these systems may impart there own forces. As well, all of these analogies have electrical equivalents which are by no means apparent or intuitive but none the less relevant.

@All
I think it's just great that the many critics here like to drag the textbook understanding of science into the debate but I think they should understand that for almost every rule of science there are more than a few exceptions to the rule. My game is not to try to understand the rules, my game is to understand the rules to such an extent that I also understand the exceptions or limitations of the popular understanding of them and this is the area in which actual progess is made. This is the exact area Thane is exploring and it is not easy by any means, in fact it is very hard in that all the lines many have drawn in the sand become blurred to such an extent that in some cases they no longer exist.

P.S.-- Thane, I was also wondering, are these twins in your rowboat analogy blonde by any chance?

Best Regards
AC

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #195 on: October 27, 2010, 06:34:03 AM »

Offline teslaalset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #196 on: October 27, 2010, 11:35:03 AM »
Dear Mr. Chet

So that I may educate myself and come up to speed on this technology, do you have a copy of that test lab report, or could you post it?

Thank you in advance.

FYI, there is some test data in the patent as well.
Have a look at page 1, reply #4. There is a link to the patent.

Offline broli

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #197 on: October 27, 2010, 11:52:30 AM »
Thane I mentioned using less turns and more current to up the power scale. Would I be successful if I did this, considering the amount of flux is kept the same.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #197 on: October 27, 2010, 11:52:30 AM »
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Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #198 on: October 27, 2010, 11:55:34 AM »
@ Thane:
Quote
The winding is made of two separate wires wound in opposing directions along an insulating form and connected in parallel at the ends. Since there are the same number of turns of wire in either direction, the magnetic fields of the two wires cancel each other out, so the coil has little inductance.


You mean the flux cancel each others in the outer core so you have a little variation of B, if this is true you have a big problem here why ?
Once again most of magnetics material are highly non linear, if you look some B/H curves in page 9/11 etc... you can notice when a magnetic material is little magnetized you have a very little permeability (and high reluctance) !!! Excatly when you drive cores nearly saturation. Relative permeability is not permeablity... You can have undesirable coupling with your Core2 and Core1... You lose in efficiency. I'am a bit worried when you drive Core1 into saturation this is maybe to have a very little permeability also. The big problem is when you drive Core nearly or in saturation you have a lot of current flowing in the coil, the wires heat and you can burn the source...
If we must to drive Core1 into saturation to obtain Heins effect, I 'am sorry but your device is not suitable for power application, it's too dangerous, even conventional Trafos can burn or overload.

Quote
THIS IS ANALOGOS TO TWO IDENTICAL TWINS IN A ROWBOAT - EACH PADLING IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS WITH EQUAL FORCE. THE NET EFFECT IS ZERO MOVEMENT BUT THE FORCES ARE STILL PRESENT.

This is like the "exotic" theory about the "scalar waves" produced by opposite bifilars windings or caduceus coils... in theory you have zero inductive fields and only the DC resistance, but you have a lot of scalar waves, this waves is like your analogy, they works against together but they have a lot energy inside them, The ZPE is similar, he have a lot of energy but remain static with a net effect zero.

Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #199 on: October 27, 2010, 01:34:49 PM »
@Crankypants
I like your analogies however I do not think anyone here has yet to grasp what your talking about in your posts which is really a shame.

MANY DO ACTUALLY!  ;)
BUT SOME ARE STILL UP THE CREEK WITHOUT A PADDLE.  :P

Quote
P.S.-- Thane, I was also wondering, are these twins in your rowboat analogy blonde by any chance?
Best Regards
AC

SADLY NO...
Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss, 29-year-old twins, rowed at the last Olympics
The brothers were portrayed in the current box-office smash 'The Social Network'
They settled a lawsuit over Facebook for $65 million but are currently appealing it.

BUT THERE IS STILL HOPE FOR "ALL CANADIANS"...  :D


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #199 on: October 27, 2010, 01:34:49 PM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #200 on: October 27, 2010, 02:54:52 PM »
Can I ask a question without being fried and twisted like a morning bacon.

Although I can not question the numbers, seems to me the numbers are so low on such a high core mass, and given as being indicated that the primary is being powered by a reactive power, what is the proof that it is in fact a core flux that is producing the output and not simple air-to-air field transfer.

I would be curious to learn of on thing. Run the BITT as before but just place a single coil of many turns, with or with a core held on top of the primary at about the same distance as the two secondaries are from the primary so it is not on the core of the BITT but floating above it. Then measure if it picks up any energy. I would be curious to see the result of this.

You see, that primary is not only generating a flux in the core, but an outer magnetic field. The secondaries can pickup both flux via the core and the field from around the exterior. If that exterior field is shifting because of AC, then you may have two inputs into the coils. Putting a coil above the primary at the same distance as the fixed secondaries would show us if this is possible and also maybe provide some additional output without touching the core itself.


Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #201 on: October 27, 2010, 03:56:59 PM »
Hi folks, I'm seeing something interesting in a circuit built similar to what woopy has shown. Though I used what I had, a 2" diameter iron toroid from computer psu and a 1" diameter ferrite toroid placed inside. The 1" toroid has 15 bifilar turns 22 gauge with bedini oscillator circuit. The 2" toroid has maybe 100 turns 24 gauge, havent counted them, that link the two toroids and maybe 100 turns on opposite side of 2" toroid as shown in red in woopy's pic. Using 2AA's as input and 5 leds as a load attached to first secondary. Now input amps without load are showing 180 milliamps, then when first secondary that links both toroids is placed to power leds, input amps drop to 150 milliamps and leds light up. Now, if I then take the other secondary coil at opposite side of 2" toroid and place this coil in parallel with first secondary, the leds double in brightness and input amps drop to 120 milliamps. Maybe this is the effect thane is pointing out.
peace love light
Tyson

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #201 on: October 27, 2010, 03:56:59 PM »
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Offline niofox

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #202 on: October 27, 2010, 05:17:21 PM »
SkyWatcher123,
I was thinking of trying something like this out, but beyond the winding of the toroids I'm a bit fuzzy
Is there a circuit diagram somewhere for this?
Or if possible, could you make a diagram for this setup?

Offline ramset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #203 on: October 27, 2010, 06:02:12 PM »
NioFox
there is this also,Thanes Mary -Jo !!
And broli's Chassis
Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #203 on: October 27, 2010, 06:02:12 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #204 on: October 27, 2010, 06:04:24 PM »
Thanes Mary-Jo

PS
Thane Do you think this could be built with square stock??
And then Tack welded or full weld?
Or drilled and doweled for even more experimenters.
as well as the ability to use diferent metals and coatings, without a costly production commitment!

would make it easier for a lot more replications /experimenters

Test Data link

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 06:40:09 PM by ramset »

Offline niofox

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #205 on: October 27, 2010, 06:11:34 PM »
Ah thanks for clearing something up for me ramset
I read all the posts up to this point, but I may have skipped over the details that would have shown me these are actually different setups

However, I have only the toroids from computer power supplies on hand, so I am especially interested in giving that small setup a try

Unless someone can suggest common equipment that I can salvage to get those fancy cores made, I will not be able to attempt anything like that till after december

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #205 on: October 27, 2010, 06:11:34 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #206 on: October 27, 2010, 07:42:20 PM »
NioFox
The scrap yard!
If Thane feels that we could make a chassis this way,
It would be a game changer for the experimenters here!

The only reason I ask is ,He made reference to a design broli [posted above]and teslaalset were doing and suggested they do it in two pieces ,for ease of Winding purposes,and then Tack weld it together.

I just want to know would Tacking the whole thing together [from square stock]
Be feasible ?or a total waste of time?
Its definately doable .

Chet
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 08:18:04 PM by ramset »

Offline penno64

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #207 on: October 27, 2010, 08:32:00 PM »
Hi all,

Thanks for that Tyson,

I think it is wonderful that you have provided a test setup to be able to replicate Thane's effect.

I asked the guys about a core a few pages back but this was the core from an ac to dc 240 to
9 v power pack that had the primary open circuit, so I cut away the windings.

Once again, thanks to Thane for sharing his concept.

Kind Regards, Penno

Offline woopy

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #208 on: October 27, 2010, 10:37:42 PM »
Hi to the potential replicators

After having tried a lot of versions with the small toroid, i am very estonished by the results,

Yes Tyson (skywatcher), try to separate your secondaries , so one has the load and the other is shorted, for my setup there is a big difference. ;)

As my test with (personal) amplificator do not give a nice sine wave, i decided to go directly with my big variac, Not very fine at all for so a small setup. ;D

Ok and last for tonight, i have imagined to build a BITT with isolated fence wire . So it could be very easy and cheap to do and in different size. I have enclosed a crude setup for this idea. :P

What do you think ?

Good night at all

Laurent

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #209 on: October 27, 2010, 11:45:40 PM »
Hi folks, Hi penno64, your welcome, though I don't know for sure if this is replicating thanes effect. Sure seems unconventional though.
Hi, woopy, yes i did that.
Quote
Yes Tyson (skywatcher), try to separate your secondaries , so one has the load and the other is shorted, for my setup there is a big difference. ;)
Though it doubled the leds brightness by placing the other secondary in parallel with first, coil has to be connected right way.
What results are you seeing woopy, you said astonishing results. Are you seeing this same reduction in amps with increasing energetic output from secondaries?
Here's a pic of my setup. Little messy with tape to keep windings secure.

 

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