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Author Topic: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER  (Read 408446 times)

Offline sigma16

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #180 on: October 27, 2010, 02:23:26 AM »
Loads one and two connect to the coil labeled "III":

(In case anyone forgot what this device looks like...)


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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #180 on: October 27, 2010, 02:23:26 AM »

Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #181 on: October 27, 2010, 02:30:57 AM »
The winding is made of two separate wires wound in opposing directions along an insulating form and connected in parallel at the ends. Since there are the same number of turns of wire in either direction, the magnetic fields of the two wires cancel each other out, so the coil has little inductance.

THIS IS ANALOGOS TO TWO IDENTICAL TWINS IN A ROWBOAT - EACH PADLING IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS WITH EQUAL FORCE. THE NET EFFECT IS ZERO MOVEMENT BUT THE FORCES ARE STILL PRESENT.

Offline Vortex1

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #182 on: October 27, 2010, 02:37:00 AM »
 dear Sir Mr. Thane Heins

First let me say that I admire your workmanship and your finely crafted and spun coils and theories.

There is just one thing that has been nagging me. It is this:

Why are you burning up drive transformers as you mentioned in Dilbert's Dilemma BITT3.0.mov.

If a normal transformer (your driving transformer) is driving a purely reactive (PF=0) load namely the BITT primary, why does the driving transformer burn up? It looks to be rated at least 150VA.

 It should be just an intermediary, reflecting nearly all reactive power back to the line, absorbing only a very tiny amount due to resistive copper and eddy current core loss.

You also mention towards the end of the video of having to end the test because the second larger transformer was beginning to burn up. Why is all this power being burned from the mains? Are these not real Watts being burned in the driving transformer?

These things are just puzzling to me, of course I don't have the insight that you have into the operation of the devices and your theories.

Thank you for your kind reply in advance.

Vortex1


« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 02:57:55 AM by Vortex1 »

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #182 on: October 27, 2010, 02:37:00 AM »
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Offline sigma16

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #183 on: October 27, 2010, 02:43:45 AM »
The winding is made of two separate wires wound in opposing directions along an insulating form and connected in parallel at the ends. Since there are the same number of turns of wire in either direction, the magnetic fields of the two wires cancel each other out, so the coil has little inductance.

THIS IS ANALOGOS TO TWO IDENTICAL TWINS IN A ROWBOAT - EACH PADLING IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS WITH EQUAL FORCE. THE NET EFFECT IS ZERO MOVEMENT BUT THE FORCES ARE STILL PRESENT.

You stated that a magnetic field cannot be used to cancel another magnetic field.  You are incorrect.  Also, the discussion of the vectors implies that if the vectors are opposing and cancelled, so is the force.  This does not imply that all of the energy is cancelled, because it isn't.  A magnetic field is not "energy" itself.  It is only the response to a state of an energy source, and not the source itself.

(hope you like variation 6)

Good questions about the burning transformers.

Offline ramset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #184 on: October 27, 2010, 03:09:14 AM »
Well
I made my living dealing with testing labs
If Thane has an independant Test from an accredited Testing facility stating this device is 100-2700 % efficient
END OF STORY!!
NO LAB NOWHERE Is going to put out a report on their letter head signed by their engineer
stating they did these tests and varified these claims as described ,unless they where willing to bet their reputation on it
PERIOD!!
If you guys think for ONE minute They wouldn't need to varify INPUT over OUTPUT to establish efficiency
YOUR SMOKING SOMETHING!!
Chet
PS
TK
you make your living dealing with test labs!!

Chetkremens@gmail.com

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #184 on: October 27, 2010, 03:09:14 AM »
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Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #185 on: October 27, 2010, 03:33:05 AM »
Looking forward to seeing the data, thanks.

YOU ALREADY HAVE IT DUDE!
AS DOES EVERYONE.  8)

Quote
My analysis of your scope trace indicates a phase of 63º (3.5 divisions x 18º) which is a PF=0.454. This is a sensitive measurement, as a few degrees makes quite a difference in the PF. Accuracy in the phase measurement is paramount.

I SUGGEST THAT IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO LEARN HOW TO READ A $30K SCOPE.

180 DEGREES / 30 CROSS HATCHES = 6 DEGREES / HATCH.
SCOPE SHOWS 2.5 HATCHES.
CALCULATION SHOWS USES MORE THAN 3.

3 HATCHES x 6 DEGREES = 18 DEGREES - 90 = 72 DEGREES, COS 72 = 0.31 PF.
INPUT VOLTAGE = 104.8 VOLTS
INPUT CURRENT = 0.01 (ADD 0.07 AMPS AS FUDGE FACTOR TO SILENCE THE "NOISE".)
PF = 0.31
OUTPUT VOLTAGE = 3.3 VOLTS
LOAD = 27 OHMS
INPUT POWER = 400 mW

INPUT POWER = 104.8 V x 0.01 A x 0.31
                    = 325 mW

OUTPUT POWER = (3.3 V)^2 / 27 OHMS
                       = 403 mW

EFFICIENCY = 403 / 325 x 100
                 = 124%

- 10% ERROR

EFFICIENCY = 111%

Quote
3mA on a 4A full scale setting  ??? This is down in the "noise" of the meter's capability, and the reading is bound to be inaccurate (you are performing COP measurements here afterall).

SO USE 0.01 AMPS THEN.
GOTTA LOSE THAT "NOISE".

Quote
It appears you are running the input through a relatively small capacitor, and that is going to introduce phase shift. Depending on where your scope and meter probes are measuring from, this could be a significant factor affecting the end-numbers.

THERE IS NO CAPACITOR ANYWHERE AND EVEN IF THERE WERE THIS WOULD ONLY ACT TO CORRECT THE PRIMARY PF AND INCREASE THE EFFICIENCY NUMBER - WHICH WOULD FOOL NO ONE.

ONE SCOPE PROBE MUST BE PLACED ACROSS THE PRIMARY COIL.
THE OTHER SCOPE  PROBE MUST BE PLACED ACROSS A PURELY RESISTIVE 0.1 OHM SHUNT RESITOR TO ESTABLISH THE CURRENT POWER FACTOR OF 1.
THE PRIMARY SCOPE PROBE PF WILL CHANGE BUT THE SHUNT RESISTOR PF WILL NOT BECAUSE IT IS ALREADY 1.
THIS IS HOW TO DO IT AND IT IS THE ONLY CORRECT METHOD UNLESS A CURRENT PROBE IS EMPLOYED.

Quote
As per the above, the computations and measurements made in the video are not reliable imo.

WHO GIVES A FLYING "F" WHAT AN ANNONYMOUS NOBODY THINKS ANYWAY?  ;)
EXCEPT ANOTHER ANNONYMOUS "NOBODY" TAKING COWARDLY SHOTS FROM BEHIND A MASK.
IF YOU DID SEND ME AN EMAIL IT BETTER INCLUDE A REAL NAME. 

Quote
Scopes and meters have their place. Knowing what they are is a valuable asset. I have a $30k+ scope, but depending on the job, a meter can be a better choice.

NOTHING BEATS A SCOPE - EVER!
IT HELPS IF ONE KNOWS HOW TO USE IT THOUGH.

CHEERS
T


Offline Vortex1

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #186 on: October 27, 2010, 03:33:08 AM »
Dear Mr. Chet

So that I may educate myself and come up to speed on this technology, do you have a copy of that test lab report, or could you post it?

Thank you in advance.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #186 on: October 27, 2010, 03:33:08 AM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #187 on: October 27, 2010, 03:44:13 AM »
Dear Mr. vortex Sir,
My appologies
ALL Test Data From Mr. Sir Thane Heinz
Here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads

Chet

Offline Vortex1

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #188 on: October 27, 2010, 03:45:09 AM »
Dear Mr Thane Heins

You seemed to have skipped over post #182 with a few questions I posted in a gentlemanly manner.

I hope you will not forget these questions as I and I'm sure a few others on this forum are equally puzzled by the burning transformer issue.

Perhaps you are working on the answer as we speak.

Thank you for your consideration

Vortex1

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #188 on: October 27, 2010, 03:45:09 AM »
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Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #189 on: October 27, 2010, 03:52:52 AM »
dear Sir Mr. Thane Heins

First let me say that I admire your workmanship and your finely crafted and spun coils and theories.

There is just one thing that has been nagging me. It is this:

Why are you burning up drive transformers as you mentioned in Dilbert's Dilemma BITT3.0.mov.

If a normal transformer (your driving transformer) is driving a purely reactive (PF=0) load namely the BITT primary, why does the driving transformer burn up? It looks to be rated at least 150VA.

 It should be just an intermediary, reflecting nearly all reactive power back to the line, absorbing only a very tiny amount due to resistive copper and eddy current core loss.

You also mention towards the end of the video of having to end the test because the second larger transformer was beginning to burn up. Why is all this power being burned from the mains? Are these not real Watts being burned in the driving transformer?

These things are just puzzling to me, of course I don't have the insight that you have into the operation of the devices and your theories.

Thank you for your kind reply in advance.

Vortex1

AND I ADMIRE YOUR ABILITY TO PRESENT A GOOD QUESTION WITH RESPECT.
I WILL RESPOND IN KIND... I HOPE IT HELPS?  :)

I AM USING A 120 V - 48 V STEP DOWN TRANSFORMER IN REVERSE AS A STEP UP TRANSFORMER AND DRIVING IT WITH 160 V FROM MY VARIC WHICH IT WAS NEVER INTENDED TO DO - HENCE THE SMOKING RESULTS. THIS WAS ALL I HAD TO WORK WITH AT THE TIME AND WE ALL DO "IT" FROM TIME TO TIME BECAUSE MOST OF US ARE TOO IMPATIENT TO WAIT FOR THE RIGHT ITEM TO COME IN THE MAIL.

NOW I AM USING A 120 - 10,000 V MICROWAVE TRANSFORMER WITH NO ILL EFFECTS DUE TO OVERHEATING.

IN ADDITION THE POWER GOING TO THE BITT IS THE VOLTAGE ACROSS THE PRIMARY TIMES THE CURRENT THROUGH THE PRIMARY TIMES THE POWER FACTOR. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE POWER GOING INTO THE STEP UP TRANSFORMER (AND ITS EFFICIENCY %) - PRETTY SOON THEY WILL HAVE ME MEASURING POWER GOING TO THE BITT FROM OUTSIDE MY HOUSE TO BAFFLE THE LESS INFORMED READER.

BE AWARE AND TRUST YOUR OWN INSTINCT.

CHEERS
T

If a normal transformer (your driving transformer) is driving a purely reactive (PF=0) load namely the BITT primary, why does the driving transformer burn up?

PS THIS IS VERY WRONG - HERE IS WHY...
THE STEP UP TRANSFORER IS FEEDING INTO A PURELY RESISTIVE SHUNT RESISTOR OF 0.5 OHMS WHICH REPRESENTS A PF OF 1 TO THE TRANSFORMER AND A VIRTUAL SHORT CIRCUIT ALSO. YOU CANNOT CREATE A WORSE SCENARIO FOR A CONVENTIONAL TRANSFORMER PRIMARY.




Offline poynt99

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #190 on: October 27, 2010, 04:06:16 AM »
Indeed I made an error with the cycle.  ::)

It's about 360º, not 180º across the 10 divisions.

Probably closer to 12 divisions, 2 of which are "off-screen" so we have to imagine this to be about correct. Therefore, with 2.5 divisions, @30º/DIV, yields 75º, which is what you state in the video.

PF is then about 0.259

Try the Killawatt meter for input power. It will give you far more accurate results than what you will be able to obtain with that scope and your meters.

.99

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #190 on: October 27, 2010, 04:06:16 AM »
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Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #191 on: October 27, 2010, 04:20:26 AM »
Quote
PS THIS IS VERY WRONG - HERE IS WHY...
THE STEP UP TRANSFORER IS FEEDING INTO A PURELY RESISTIVE SHUNT RESISTOR OF 0.5 OHMS WHICH REPRESENTS A PF OF 1 TO THE TRANSFORMER AND A VIRTUAL SHORT CIRCUIT ALSO - DEPENDING ON THE PRIMARY COIL USED. YOU CANNOT CREATE A WORSE SCENARIO FOR A CONVENTIONAL TRANSFORMER PRIMARY.

I WILL ADD ONE OR TWO MORE THINGS HERE...
IN THE EARLY VIDEO OF 2009 WE WERE USING A HIGH IMPEDANCE PRIMARY WITH A RELATIVELY LOW INPUT VOLTAGE AND A POWER FACTOR OF 0.34 OR SO.

NOW WE ARE USING A HIGHER INPUT VOLTAGE TO INCREASE THE PRIMARY CORE FLUX MAGNITUDE WHICH CLEARLY SHOWS A SHIFTING OF THE PRIMARY SINE WAVE HERE: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins#p/u/2/sQq1-J8SOtc

THIS "DELIBERATE" PF SHIFTING IS A NEW DEVELOPMENT UNDER TESTING - THAT IS WHY THESE LATEST VIDEOS FOCUS ON PHASE ANGLE (AND PHASE ANGLE SHIFTING) AND NOT INPUT vs OUTPUT AS DONE PREVIOUSLY. TO DO THESE INPUT vs OUTPUT TESTS CORRECTLY WE WOULD NEED TO CLAMP AND TACK WELD THE PRIMARY IN PLACE (TO REDUCE PRIMARY CURRENT) WHICH IS PREMATURE AT THIS TIME BECAUSE WE ARE STILL CHANGING PRIMARY WIRE GAUGE AND TURNS RATIOS TO GET THE EFFECT BUT NOT HAVE TO RELY ON CORE SATURATION TOO MUCH WHICH IS NOT SUSTAINABLE IN THE LONG RUN.

T

Offline sigma16

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #192 on: October 27, 2010, 04:40:50 AM »
Hmmm

Offline sigma16

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #193 on: October 27, 2010, 04:45:37 AM »
I bet you had a few problems with Variant 6, didn't you?  Sorry, it is a misleading image.  MS Paint is a very limited program for graphics.

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #194 on: October 27, 2010, 04:54:17 AM »
With regards the those cheap kill-a-watt meters a couple other members here had this to say about them. 
From Gotoluc who does extensive testing in a detailed manner: "@everyone,

I did the test as I said using the homes electrical utility meter because that is what counts!... I am sad  to report that the Kill A Watt consumption meter was fooled by the circuit but it was not by the homes electrical meter. For one revolution of the dial on the homes electrical meter took 5 minute 30 seconds with the bulb connected to the circuit and took 7 minute 30 seconds with just the bulb connected (no circuit) So that says it all there. 

I am happy to have found this great way of testing since some of our electronic testing equipment is not capable of doing the job correctly and this is one good example."

User wattsup: "from experience selling power factor correction systems way back, meters like the Kill-A-Watt may not be reading the exact conditions due to returning harmonics from your capacitor oscillations. The Kill-A-Watt is usually used to count the load consumption of known appliances and may not react well with devices that are obviously creating some flyback conditions. I would recommend using a real voltmeter and ammeter on the feed line to figure out the watts."

So I don't think a Kill-a-watt meter is going to be the tell-all for this situation.  I'd trust the high end scope and the only other possible bottom line solution might be an actual utility kilowatt hour meter like the one outside your house.  Except for very low power tests it might take a long time if it would even read the power at all. 

 

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