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Author Topic: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER  (Read 365429 times)

Offline broli

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #90 on: October 21, 2010, 09:49:11 PM »
Broli,
Can you repost or update the material specs?
Please?
I would like to make some calls myself.
Thank you
Chet

Silicon steel, electrical steel, transformer steel...which all describe the same material would be ideal I suppose. The company I contacted asked for a sample so I don't think they ever worked with it. I just wanted a ball park price so I resend the inquiry asking for plain Iron as laminate material.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #90 on: October 21, 2010, 09:49:11 PM »

Offline woopy

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #91 on: October 21, 2010, 09:59:45 PM »
Hi Broli

If i have right understood , Thane did mention in his previous post that there is an "air gap " between core 2 and core 3 in order to get a symetrical flux path.

So i suggest to check it before cutting your template

Good night

Laurent

Offline ramset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #92 on: October 21, 2010, 10:04:12 PM »
Perhaps I'll go see the fellahs at "orange county choppers"
they have a laser cutter.
I'm sure Pauly would build Crankypants a "Hog",
based on the BTT.
[I'd pay to see that!!=]
They're not to far from me![and we speak the same tongue]

Well first I'll try some local New England vendors!
{Not ruling out the "Chopper" visit}

Chet




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #92 on: October 21, 2010, 10:04:12 PM »
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Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #93 on: October 22, 2010, 12:39:48 AM »
Hi Broli

If i have right understood , Thane did mention in his previous post that there is an "air gap " between core 2 and core 3 in order to get a symetrical flux path.

So i suggest to check it before cutting your template

Good night

Laurent

CLARIFICATION:
SORRY, AIR GAP MEANS "SMALL SPACE" BETWEEN TWO SEPARATE TOROID CORES, NOT LITERALLY MEANT TO BE A DELIBERATE AIR GAP. WHAT I MEANT WAS THE INNER TORIOD FLUX PATTERN SHOULD LOOK LIKE THE SMALL TRANSFORMER FEMM.
 
CHEERS T

Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #94 on: October 22, 2010, 12:48:24 AM »
Perhaps I'll go see the fellahs at "orange county choppers" they have a laser cutter.
I'm sure Pauly would build Crankypants a "Hog", based on the BTT. [I'd pay to see that!!=]
They're not to far from me![and we speak the same tongue]
{Not ruling out the "Chopper" visit}
Chet

AWESOME CHET 8),
THE PRICE IS $200 K AND THEY NEED A 60% ADVANCE!  :P
WHEN CAN I GO BACK TO THEM?

CHEERS
T

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #94 on: October 22, 2010, 12:48:24 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #95 on: October 22, 2010, 01:54:57 AM »
Is that Metglass tape?

Offline ramset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #96 on: October 22, 2010, 04:14:26 AM »
Mr T
Holy Crap!!,I had no Idea!!

Sweet!!

You freakin Whacko!!
You look good on that beast!!

Whats that red one ?Runs on wood gas?

Or you gonna sell  barbeque weenies on the thruway to help pay pauly ?

Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #96 on: October 22, 2010, 04:14:26 AM »
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Offline teslaalset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #97 on: October 22, 2010, 09:25:36 AM »

I NOTICED IN THE BELOW VIDEO TEST THAT THERE IS INDEED FLUX IN THE OUTER RING ON NO LOAD AS THE FEMM SUGGESTS ALTHOUGH I WOULD HAVE NOT PREDICTED IT.

CHEERS
T

Thane, to avoid misinterpretation, here's the Femm result in case no secundary load is present.
You'll notice that indeed there is no flux in core3, as one would expect.
I don't understand why there is some in your setup in case there is no load...... ???

(The earlier results I showed had some secondary load current included. That is why they have flux in core 3)

The measurement method you use is a bit doubtful though, using a current clamp to measure magnetic flux.
Those clamps are normally made out of ferrite (so high permeability).
Putting such clamps on a transformer core should not give any flux in the clamp core, even if there is flux on the transformer core.
But you showed it obviously does. So, big question marks here.

I would just use a few (10-20) detection windings on those cores to measure the voltage over those windings with an oscilloscope. That probably will give you a more reliable and accurate representation of the local flux.


« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 10:15:19 AM by teslaalset »

Offline broli

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #98 on: October 22, 2010, 09:47:28 AM »
Thane, gaps like the image below has?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #98 on: October 22, 2010, 09:47:28 AM »
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Offline teslaalset

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Long term consequences
« Reply #99 on: October 22, 2010, 12:43:06 PM »
I had some thoughts on the consequences of having all transformers used in average life changed into BITT onces.
In that case the energy plants need to provide mainly blind power (PF=0).
I wonder whether that will actually be the case in the end and whether it will be technically feasible at all to deliver mainly blind power to all consumers.

So, the BITT looks like a very charming solution for individual cases, but for such main stream changes it will be a different story.
Power plants probably will change the way of billing the delivered electricity if delivery of mainly blind power is technical feasible at all.

B.t.w. In my country (Holland) private consumers do not pay for consumed blind power.
But companies do pay for this already.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 01:16:43 PM by teslaalset »

Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #100 on: October 22, 2010, 02:29:27 PM »
Hello everyone, I have played with FEMM last two days... I have made a GIF to show magnetic flux in the BTT with and without air gap between path 1 (small) and path 2 (2 times bigger). The air gap is about 0.1 millimeter...
The air gap add more reluctance and linearity comportement of the path 1 and symetrical distribution of BEMF.
All coils have 100 turns and 1 amp flowing current. Each flux path is tested separetly... The flux of primary is the initial flux, the other flux is simulated BEMF flux. Enjoy !!! ;D

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #100 on: October 22, 2010, 02:29:27 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #101 on: October 22, 2010, 02:32:49 PM »
teslaalset
Quote;
B.t.w. In my country (Holland) private consumers do not pay for consumed blind power.
But companies do pay for this already.
---------------------------------
Sir
Its My job to ask the dumb questions [as rarely as possible].

Whats "Blind Power"?  -> 8) ?

Chet

Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #102 on: October 22, 2010, 02:51:06 PM »
Thane, to avoid misinterpretation, here's the Femm result in case no secondary load is present.
You'll notice that indeed there is no flux in core3, as one would expect. I don't understand why there is some in your setup in case there is no load...... ???

WE ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN FLUX CHANGE PERCENTAGE - NOT FLUX MAGNITUDES ON THEIR OWN.

BUT FOR ARGUEMENT SAKE - I WOULD SUGGEST THAT THERE IS ALWAYS SOME RADICAL STRAY FLUX IN CORE 3 EVEN ON NO LOAD.

Quote
(The earlier results I showed had some secondary load current included. That is why they have flux in core 3)

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY YOU ALSO SHOWED HOW A LOADED SECONDARY COIL 1 WILL REDIRECT FLUX AWAY FROM ITSELF (DUE TO ITS IMPEDANCE AND RELUCTANCE INCREASE) INTO THE OPPOSITE SECONDARY WITH LESS LOAD/IMPEDANCE/RELUCTANCE. SECONDARY COIL 1 IN THIS CASE WILL SHOWS 0.0 LOAD VOLTS.

BOTH COILS NEED TO BE LOADED SIMULTANEOUSLY TO FEED EACH OTHER THE FLUX REQUIRED TO MAINTAIN A VOLTAGE ACROSS THE LOAD(S).

Quote
The measurement method you use is a bit doubtful though, using a current clamp to measure magnetic flux. Those clamps are normally made out of ferrite (so high permeability). Putting such clamps on a transformer core should not give any flux in the clamp core, even if there is flux on the transformer core. But you showed it obviously does. So, big question marks here.

I BET THE CLAMP ON PROBE AT CORE 3 IS READING THE FLUX VARIATIONS WHERE CORE 2 MEETS CORE 3. A CLAMP ON CURRENT PROBE IS JUST A GAUSS METER WHICH READS MAGNETIC FLUX AROUND A WIRE AND CONVERTS IT TO AMPS. IT WILL READ STRAY FLUX AROUND A TRANSFORMER CORE IF IT IS CONNECTED "PROPERLY" THAT IS WHY IT IS LEFT OPEN AND "INCORRECTLY" CONNECTED DIRECTLY TO THE CORE SUCH THAT THE CORE COMPLETED THE CLAMPS MAGNETIC FLUX PATH.

AT ANY RATE AS I MENTIONED ABOVE IT IS THE FLUX CHANGE % THAT IS IMPORTANT EVEN IF THE "NO LOAD" FLUX READING AT POSITION CORE 3 IS 10 AMPS - THE QUESTION IS HOW DOES IT CHANGE FROM NO LOAD TO ON LOAD.

Quote
I would just use a few (10-20) detection windings on those cores to measure the voltage over those windings with an oscilloscope. That probably will give you a more reliable and accurate representation of the local flux.


YES AND IT WON'T COST YOU $400.00 EITHER!

CHEERS
T
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 06:09:12 PM by CRANKYpants »

Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #103 on: October 22, 2010, 03:01:08 PM »
Hello everyone, I have played with FEMM last two days... I have made a GIF to show magnetic flux in the BTT with and without air gap between path 1 (small) and path 2 (2 times bigger). The air gap is about 0.1 millimeter...
The air gap add more reluctance and linearity comportement of the path 1 and symetrical distribution of BEMF.
All coils have 100 turns and 1 amp flowing current. Each flux path is tested separetly... The flux of primary is the initial flux, the other flux is simulated BEMF flux. Enjoy !!! ;D

THAT "GIF" SHOULD BE MORE ACURATELY CALLED A GIFT;)

THANKS
T

Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #104 on: October 22, 2010, 03:04:19 PM »
Mr T
Holy Crap!!,I had no Idea!!
Whats that red one ?Runs on wood gas?Chet

NO THAT RED ONE IS THEIR HHO BURNING BIKE - THAT BLACK THING IS THE WATER TANK!

CHEERS
T

 

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