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Author Topic: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER  (Read 375134 times)

Offline broli

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #270 on: August 09, 2011, 12:59:59 PM »
I am not sure this design would work. Look at the flux from primary, the other secondary sees flux from primary and opposing flux from other secondary, they dont add up. Here is a 2d picture of what I mean.

I see now. These are the closests matching cores then:

2x Oval: M-284  >60000µ @ 50Hz 100 EUR

Toroid: M-028 ~30000µ @ 10kHz 100 EUR (25mm thick)
Toroid: M-115 ~30000µ @ 10kHz 120 EUR (30mm thick)
Toroid: M-615 >45000µ @ 10kHz 100 EUR (30mm thick)

So depending on which toroid you chose the price will be around 300 EUR (without shipping costs). It's not that much but you have to ask yourself what the COP will be and how much power you can take from these.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #270 on: August 09, 2011, 12:59:59 PM »

Offline futuristic

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #271 on: August 09, 2011, 01:24:36 PM »
Perhaps this version would be cheaper and more efficient?

Offline broli

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #272 on: August 09, 2011, 01:34:58 PM »
Perhaps this version would be cheaper and more efficient?

On the first page of this thread wojwrobel had a similar setup, but there's no experimental data of his setup.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #272 on: August 09, 2011, 01:34:58 PM »
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Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #273 on: August 09, 2011, 01:44:27 PM »
I thought of this kind of setup too but I realised couple of problems:

Those smaller toroids, they touch each other much less than oval so it could be difficult to wind enough wire for primary coil, same thing for secondary.
Smaller toroids are inside bigger one. What happens if core heats up and there occurs thermal expansion ? I am afraid of core cracking here if fit is too tight.
Price of magnetec cores seem to be same regardless if core is oval or toroid.

Excellent picture broli, thanks for that.

Offline broli

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #274 on: August 09, 2011, 02:25:29 PM »
It would cost around 404€ apperently if you include 19% taxes, shipping seems costless in europe. If more people can pitch in I'm willing to donate 100€ for the project.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #274 on: August 09, 2011, 02:25:29 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #275 on: August 09, 2011, 02:34:18 PM »
broli
count me in for 50 US [just let me Know]
Chet
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 03:01:23 PM by ramset »

Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #276 on: August 09, 2011, 06:36:05 PM »
Hello everyone, I post my old version ("Reacto-Converter" for Reactive Energy Converter) that I have thinked one year ago but never released, it consist of three identicals toroids (Nanoperm) with one input and two output, detail and operation in pics below:

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #276 on: August 09, 2011, 06:36:05 PM »
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Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #277 on: August 10, 2011, 09:35:20 AM »
I dont think this three toroid version would work if my understanding of flux is correct. I modded the picture to show how the flux goes in toroids.

Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #278 on: August 10, 2011, 10:30:28 AM »
I think your flux distribution is correct if you don't saturate the two bottom toroid, but remember I heavily saturate the two bottom and by this fact reducing the permeability substantially, is here the Heins effect enter in action, when you put load equally distributed in the two secondaries, the flux will feed each other without consumming real power in the coil 1, if you load more and more the Back flux will start again to draw power in coil 1, so you have a sweet point...
In short by magnetic saturation I droop permeability and force the two secondaries work TOGETHER instead FIGHTING the primary...
Here I'm in vacation but in September I will test my version and yours of course !!!
Sorry I have not made this precision in my previous post...
And try this experiment, it's not FE but worth to try: Take a magnetic core (or any normal trafo) and wind two bobbin, but saturate moderately to draw some amp, try with 1/1 ratio, load the secondary and put a light bulb in series with the primary, when you load the secondary you should observe amps decreasing, but if you load more the amps restart to increase !!!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #278 on: August 10, 2011, 10:30:28 AM »
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Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #279 on: August 10, 2011, 11:00:36 AM »
ok, now I see your point. But wont it take power to saturate the bottom cores in the first place ? Or is this the power that gets returned back ? Well, I dont understand this energy returning back at all, where does it return to ? Does the companys meter measure difference it sees between L and N/ground lines ?

In my simplified BTT version I do not saturate the primary core, unless the high number of turns does it somehow. The audio effect I observe is that without load there is some noise and faint light in primary side. When adding load the noise goes down, primary light is dimmed and light in secondary side lights up much brighter that light on primary side. If core is saturated, shouldn't there be lots of noise then ?

Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #280 on: August 10, 2011, 06:00:22 PM »
Quote
ok, now I see your point. But wont it take power to saturate the bottom cores in the first place ? Or is this the power that gets returned back ? Well, I don't understand this energy returning back at all, where does it return to ? Does the companys meter measure difference it sees between L and N/ground lines ?

No, when you saturate an inductor it draw reactive power, due to the phase difference of 90° between voltage and current, the current wave form is like in pics in previous post...

The company only measure active power (watts) the real energy, but not reactive (VARS).

Quote
In my simplified BTT version I do not saturate the primary core, unless the high number of turns does it somehow. The audio effect I observe is that without load there is some noise and faint light in primary side. When adding load the noise goes down, primary light is dimmed and light in secondary side lights up much brighter that light on primary side. If core is saturated, shouldn't there be lots of noise then ?

In my opinion your primary is slightly saturated: A saturated core make more noise than normal, and the small current in the light in primary prove that some reactive current flow in it !!!
When you load the secondary, the input current goes down and light go off and the trafo become unsaturated then make less noise !!!

So in short: 1° A saturated core make more noise.
                 2° A saturated core draw more (reactive) current.
                 3° When you load a saturated core the input current goes down.
                 4° When you load a saturated core the noise decrease !!!
                 5° When you load a saturated core at certain point it become unsaturated and run   
                     like a normal trafo except providing real power in secondaries !!!   :)
                 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #280 on: August 10, 2011, 06:00:22 PM »
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Offline broli

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #281 on: August 10, 2011, 06:20:07 PM »
In most the videos I've seen of the BTT there was no sign of saturation, all current waves were nice sine waves. I don't think saturation contributes much to the effect.

Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #282 on: August 10, 2011, 06:42:40 PM »
Look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPo5Ch14jlc&feature=channel_video_title

Ugly sine wave input current (in yellow) inside...

If my memory is correct, in this Topic even Thane (Cranky Pant's) speak about some saturation to produce the effect...

In the video he affirm he must increase voltage then increase current then ugly sine wave (saturation) then third harmonic then more reactive power then two secondary forced to work together instead fighting primary...

But I can have wrong of course !!!

Offline broli

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #283 on: August 10, 2011, 06:57:32 PM »
Look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPo5Ch14jlc&feature=channel_video_title

Ugly sine wave input current (in yellow) inside...

If my memory is correct, in this Topic even Thane (Cranky Pant's) speak about some saturation to produce the effect...

In the video he affirm he must increase voltage then increase current then ugly sine wave (saturation) then third harmonic then more reactive power then two secondary forced to work together instead fighting primary...

But I can have wrong of course !!!

Sorry but that video doesn't prove your point. Clearly he shows the BITT operates fine in low voltage/current mode, ie it has a powerfactor of 0 on load. Then he just goes to increase the current/volatge beyond saturation and shows that the powerfactor still remains the same, that's all I saw. He even reduces the voltage back down below saturation.
Saturation was not the main subject of that video.

Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #284 on: August 10, 2011, 07:47:23 PM »
OK, saturation is not the only criteria but I think is necessary to increase power on load with no Back Flux...

In this video again at 2:30 an ugly sine wave again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eiu-dCe8bnA&feature=channel_video_title

In a BH curve when you saturate a core it's permeability droop, so if have primary leg with low u and the outer leg not or less saturated why you think the Heins effect should be not here !?

 

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