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Author Topic: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER  (Read 406539 times)

Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #135 on: October 23, 2010, 11:08:29 AM »
@ teslaalset, it seems FEMM cannot modelize too much complex design...
Yes it seems  FEMM doesn't like Gap :'( .
I don't know how to use entirely the BH curves or create magnetic materials, I am a beginer here, I use FEMM since 3 days only... I have read the gap must be very small but not to (a large gap you sacrify inductance and to small gap you return with non linear BH curves, so for each configurations and magnetics materials we have an optimzed gap lenght). With broli diagram I think your gap is to large and magnetic field run out of space.

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #135 on: October 23, 2010, 11:08:29 AM »

Offline broli

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #136 on: October 23, 2010, 02:42:01 PM »
@Thane, I'm also curious about the power scale. Is it an equipment limitation that you are working in the milli range. Surely you could easily offset this by an arbitrary increased factor by for instance increasing the input current and equally reducing the amounts of windings. From the core's point of view nothing changes, you are only working with more amps and thus watts. So all cop's remain the same only your values would be, say, 100x bigger. This would get you out of the milliwatt range and in to the tens of watts range. Making power feedback viable. Especially with that 2700% OU setup.

Offline ramset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #137 on: October 23, 2010, 05:54:07 PM »
HHMMmmm............
Not sure the "Boss" [Mr.T} is around on the weekends?
I think he might have other things he likes to do!

But any Hoo, I hope he keeps workin out [looking quite "Fit" these days],
I invited A lot of Peeps to this party,and a few of them are outside sharpening their teeth on the Curb![could get nasty!}

But fortunately for us Thane Heinz is doing what he does best,
seems like this is what he was "called" to do?
And he's gotten very thick skin,from years of brawlin with the best of the best!
But I still think he should find his "brass knuckles" and keep them close!

Still investigating this Chassis for the coils,seems like Schubert has a different style ?
But no matter ,the vendor will still be the same!

Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #137 on: October 23, 2010, 05:54:07 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #138 on: October 23, 2010, 07:31:40 PM »
What Thane does when he's not here!


Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #139 on: October 23, 2010, 08:31:04 PM »
He could make some Burnout with his Electric Car "the white zombie" (feeded by a bitoroid of course). ;D

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #139 on: October 23, 2010, 08:31:04 PM »
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Offline woopy

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #140 on: October 23, 2010, 11:34:52 PM »
hi all

just a simple set up to make some basic evaluation. the central L1 (laminated core with very small air gap to the outer toroid ) can be removed from the toroid and the winding can be easily modified .

i have rapidly made some test by directly connecting  the L1 to my basic FG and it seems that when i short the 2 secondaries the L1 current does not significantly increase.

But i need more test. The frequency seems to have a great importance
The problem is that my FG gives only 2 volts and than i work with very low values datas and of course submitted to error.

Have somebody a  SIMPLE circuit to use my FG and increase the voltage to get some more reliable datas?

thanks

and good night at all

Laurent

Offline lumen

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #141 on: October 24, 2010, 05:09:23 AM »
I wonder if this could be right!
This was setup with a center coil and the outer coils as copper rings to simulate a load.

The only thing that changed between x1 and x2 pics are the two cross cores. They changed from .15" up to .20" in the x2 pic.

Interesting that at the .15 thickness, it seems almost no field even exits the center coil, and the rotation of the field in the outer ring is (at least in my mind) totally unexpected.

I have some nice animated gifs but they are too large to upload.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #141 on: October 24, 2010, 05:09:23 AM »
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Offline teslaalset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #142 on: October 24, 2010, 09:56:33 AM »
hi all

just a simple set up to make some basic evaluation. the central L1 (laminated core with very small air gap to the outer toroid ) can be removed from the toroid and the winding can be easily modified .

i have rapidly made some test by directly connecting  the L1 to my basic FG and it seems that when i short the 2 secondaries the L1 current does not significantly increase.

But i need more test. The frequency seems to have a great importance
The problem is that my FG gives only 2 volts and than i work with very low values datas and of course submitted to error.

Have somebody a  SIMPLE circuit to use my FG and increase the voltage to get some more reliable datas?

Hi Laurent,

Nice feasibility setup.
Just a hint from my side to test with more power: I use my PC audio speaker set to test as a cheap FG solution that can generate some power at various frequency.

Offline teslaalset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #143 on: October 24, 2010, 10:02:15 AM »
I wonder if this could be right!
This was setup with a center coil and the outer coils as copper rings to simulate a load.

The only thing that changed between x1 and x2 pics are the two cross cores. They changed from .15" up to .20" in the x2 pic.

Interesting that at the .15 thickness, it seems almost no field even exits the center coil, and the rotation of the field in the outer ring is (at least in my mind) totally unexpected.

I have some nice animated gifs but they are too large to upload.

Hi Lumen,

You may be able to upload large files according to the tips I gave Broli on page 5, reply #70 of this thread. What app did you use to make these layouts?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #143 on: October 24, 2010, 10:02:15 AM »
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Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #144 on: October 24, 2010, 10:16:08 AM »
Quote
Have somebody a  SIMPLE circuit to use my FG and increase the voltage to get some more reliable datas?

You can use an amplifier to get more power of your FG. (beware place a limiting resistor betwen you amplifier and your L1 coil because the amplifier could self destroy if the impedance doesn't match): if you have 4 ohms amplifier place at least a 4 ohms DC resistor !!!

Offline lumen

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #145 on: October 24, 2010, 03:21:20 PM »
Hi Lumen,

You may be able to upload large files according to the tips I gave Broli on page 5, reply #70 of this thread. What app did you use to make these layouts?

@teslaalset

The simulation was made in Maxwell 3d. So far I have been able to make it operate in three different modes, all of which depend on the exact shape of the core. If I can pinpoint the reason behind the operation (providing we know which mode works best) then I will try to refine it and build a test device.

I think I have the animated gifs uploaded in general files.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=444
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=445


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #145 on: October 24, 2010, 03:21:20 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #146 on: October 24, 2010, 03:54:53 PM »
Gents,
I am easily confused when I'm doing something I've never done before.
I am going to stick with "FOR MARY -JO"
Thanes post #82 [page 6]
practically a spec sheet!
Broli has a chassis Schem for this "Mary-Jo" design.
Monday I get going..............

Chet

The link to All test data.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads
PS
I think we need a moderator ,even if all the crap I post gets deleted I DON'T CARE!

It would be so NICE to do a build JUST ONCE ,the right way!!

Ist page 1st post, an ongoing updated "reference" of "progress to date".
Like the REAL world does it!
Organized ,up to date!
Specs
Suppliers
ETC...........

Not a Job for Thane [unless he wants to]

Broli??
Tes??
??
just Me [her moniker]
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 04:36:00 PM by ramset »

Offline lumen

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #147 on: October 24, 2010, 04:25:46 PM »
Gents,
I am easily confused when I'm doing something I've never done before.
I am going to stick with "FOR MARY -JO"
Thanes post #82 [page 6]
practically a spec sheet!
Broli has a chassis Schem for this "Mary-Jo" design.
Monday I get going..............


@ramset

I agree!
If this is indeed a schematic that is already proven and the correct scale, then don't change anything. I am not sure exactly why at this time, but it seems in the simulator, even a small change can drastically change the overall operation.
Something as small as placing a radius on the corners (which one might think would help) can reduce performance by 50%. Keep in mind that this is based on the result of a simulator which can be based on operator error! So I agree, if you are building, stick with the proven design.


Offline broli

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #148 on: October 24, 2010, 04:45:11 PM »
Lumen I think it's mainly because of the 3d aspect. A 2d model is already a big job on the cpu, so you can imagine the strain of a 3d model. What I find too bad is the lack of software that simulates an actual running transformer design where voltage induction is part of the simulation. That would save a lot of time.

Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #149 on: October 24, 2010, 06:01:16 PM »
In this design, why the outer toroid (core 3) is the same scale than inner toroid (toroid 2 and 1) ? The core 3 must be larger than other two ? I don't understand here. ???

 

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