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Author Topic: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER  (Read 365645 times)

Offline ramset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #105 on: October 22, 2010, 03:37:45 PM »
Mr T
quote:

THAT BLACK THING IS THE WATER TANK!

-------------------------------
HA!
I may have been born at Night ,But it wasn't last night!

Geese ,Thats the bubbler! Don't you see the Tubes?

Nice try Though.

Chet

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #105 on: October 22, 2010, 03:37:45 PM »

Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #106 on: October 22, 2010, 03:47:12 PM »
Thane, gaps like the image below has?

THE TERM "AIR GAP" IS A MISNOMER - IT DOES NOT MEAN LITERAL DELIBERATE AIR GAP.

FOR EXAMPLE, EVEN IF YOU MASH TWO PIECES OF CORE TOGETHER WITH A HIGH PRESSURE CLAMP - YOU WILL STILL HAVE AN "AIR GAP" FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES. THIS AIR GAP (ALBEIT INFINITELY SMALL) WILL HELP ENSURE THAT THE SECONDARY BEMF INDUCED FLUXES STAY IN THE OUTER CORE 3 (WHERE YOU WANT THEM :)) RATHER THAN FORCE THEIR WAY BACK THROUGH CORE 2 (WHERE YOU DON'T WANT THEM :'() - WHICH WILL INCREASE PRIMARY CURRENT BECAUSE THE PRIMARY NOW HAS TO PUSH FLUX THROUGH A HIGHER RELUCTANCE FLUX PATH CORE 2 ROUTE.

THE AIR GAP BETWEEN THE PRIMARY CORE 1 AND CORE 2 DOES THE SAME THING BECAUSE YOU CERTAINLY DON'T WANT ANY SECONDARY BEMF INDUCED FLUX HERE  :o UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE - BUT THIS AIR GAP NEEDS TO BE SUPER SMALL TO KEEP THE PRIMARY CURRENT DOWN.

CHEERS
T

PS
IF I WERE YOU - I WOULD CHANGE YOUR DIAGRAM TO AN I CORE PRIMARY WITH TWO C CORES AND A TOROID CORE AROUND THE OUTSIDE. THIS WAY WHEN YOU OBTAIN A MANUFACTURER'S LICENSE  ;) YOU WILL BE ABLE TO WIND A PRIMARY AND THE C's & BI-TOROID BOTH SEPARATELY ON CONVENTIONAL EQUIPMENT, THEN JUST SLIDE THE PRIMARY COIL AND CORE IN PLACE, A LITTLE TACK WELD  AND "BOB'S YOUR UNCLE".





Offline teslaalset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #107 on: October 22, 2010, 04:18:09 PM »
teslaalset
Quote;
B.t.w. In my country (Holland) private consumers do not pay for consumed blind power.
But companies do pay for this already.
---------------------------------
Sir
Its My job to ask the dumb questions [as rarely as possible].

Whats "Blind Power"?  -> 8) ?

Chet

Chet, actually it is written in at the top of the same reply.
In short, blind power is power with power factor 0 (PF=0).
In Holland private power meters don't measure consumed power with power factor = 0, so they are 'blind' for this kind of power consumption.

Power has a power factor of 0 when voltage and current are 90 degrees out of phase.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 04:42:52 PM by teslaalset »

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #107 on: October 22, 2010, 04:18:09 PM »
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Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #108 on: October 22, 2010, 06:23:17 PM »
The measurement method you use is a bit doubtful though, using a current clamp to measure magnetic flux. I would just use a few (10-20) detection windings on those cores to measure the voltage over those windings with an oscilloscope. That probably will give you a more reliable and accurate representation of the local flux.


IF SOMEONE TRYS THIS EVENTUALLY...
REMEMBER THAT A VOLTMETER READS THE NET CHANGE IN MAGNETIC FLUX / TIME.
SO IF YOU HAVE TWO SECONDARY COILS ON THE SAME LOAD BOTH INDUCING THE SAME AMOUNT OF FLUX - BUT IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS - THE NET FLUX THROUGH THE COIL WILL BE ZERO AND THE VOLTAGE WILL BE ZERO, EVEN WITH MAX FLUX CHANGE / TIME.

THAT IS WHY ONE OF THE PROTOTYPE COILS IS ALWAYS LARGER THAN THE OTHER FROM A PURELY EMPIRICALLY SCIENTIFIC PERSPECTIVE.

T


Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #109 on: October 22, 2010, 06:46:29 PM »
In short, blind power is power with power factor 0 (PF=0). In Holland private power meters don't measure consumed power with power factor = 0, so they are 'blind' for this kind of power consumption.

LET US BE CLEAR ON THE LANGUAGE WHICH CAN BE TRICKY  :P:

IF THE POWER FACTOR IS 0 THERE IS NO POWER "CONSUMED" PERIOD, BECAUSE THE METER READS THE NET POWER BY MEASURING THE INPUT CURRENT FROM THE SOURCE ON ONE CYCLE vs THE OUTPUT CURRENT BACK TO THE SOURCE ON THE OTHER CYCLE.

THE "$ COST" ACCORDING TO THE METER IS HOW MUCH CURRENT IS RETURNED TO THE SOURCE.
AND THE CONSUMER PAYS THE DIFFERENCE.

THE BITT USES PURE REACTIVE CURRENT/POWER  (PF = 0) BUT DELIVERS REAL POWER TO THE LOAD(S).
SO THE NET METERED COST IS $0.00 BECAUSE THE INPUT FROM THE SOURCE ON ONE CYCLE (1/2 SINE WAVE) EQUALS THE OUTPUT RETURNED BACK TO THE SOURCE ON THE OTHER CYCLE ( OTHER 1/2 SINE WAVE). 
 

NET EFFICIENCY = INFINITY  8)
Just as it ought to be in a LOVE based INFINITE UNIVERSE!

CHEERS
T
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 07:12:10 PM by CRANKYpants »

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #109 on: October 22, 2010, 06:46:29 PM »
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Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #110 on: October 22, 2010, 07:28:27 PM »
I have one thing to say: Thane you are a genius !!! This my comprehension of your device to: In a voracious conventional transfomer the power factor is coupled Forward and Back, so if you have a PF of 0.5 at secondary you have to a PF a 0.5 at the primary. In full load if you a PF of 1 you have a primlary PF of 1... yes this crap burn your precious money >:( :o

Now in the BITT case have a "divine" arrangement with three coils one primary and two secondary. Two magnetic path also, one smaller and one bigger. Here you have a magnetic diode that allow EMF to flow of the primary to secondary (in a symetrical way when using a very small air gap between core1 and core2). The BEFM flux is not allowed to return disrupting the primary :D but feed her sister... The two secondary is "twin sisters" they work together if you don't load one secondary the BTT cannot work correctly... So the primary is here to sustain the voltage, with the same numbers of turn half the voltage is feeded in one secondary so you need to connect them in series to have the full voltage of the primary (this case is true when the two secondaries are symetric). The BTT is a device with a great potential because you can explain this effect with conventional science and not "exotic" theory. In a certain case law of conservation are false, REACTIVE POWER CAN BE CONVERTED TO REAL POWER... ;D

"Just as it ought to be in an LOVE based infinite universe!"
Unfortunately humans have a certain "fear" of infinty and immortality. Those concepts is very disrupting for some people...

Offline teslaalset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #111 on: October 22, 2010, 08:13:33 PM »

IF THE POWER FACTOR IS 0 THERE IS NO POWER "CONSUMED" PERIOD, BECAUSE THE METER READS THE NET POWER BY MEASURING THE INPUT CURRENT FROM THE SOURCE ON ONE CYCLE vs THE OUTPUT CURRENT BACK TO THE SOURCE ON THE OTHER CYCLE.

THE "$ COST" ACCORDING TO THE METER IS HOW MUCH CURRENT IS RETURNED TO THE SOURCE.
AND THE CONSUMER PAYS THE DIFFERENCE.

THE BITT USES PURE REACTIVE CURRENT/POWER  (PF = 0) BUT DELIVERS REAL POWER TO THE LOAD(S).
SO THE NET METERED COST IS $0.00 BECAUSE THE INPUT FROM THE SOURCE ON ONE CYCLE (1/2 SINE WAVE) EQUALS THE OUTPUT RETURNED BACK TO THE SOURCE ON THE OTHER CYCLE ( OTHER 1/2 SINE WAVE). 
 

Indeed that is a clearer explanation.
Below you can see the differences in graphical form.
The black lines represent the power consumption
- The inductive load has positive and negative power consumption, equally distributed, so the net power consumption is zero
- The pure resistive load has only positive power consumption ending up in your power bill.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #111 on: October 22, 2010, 08:13:33 PM »
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Offline penno64

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #112 on: October 22, 2010, 08:54:14 PM »
Hi all,

Thane, you are a genius, a gentleman and a great guy!

How wonderful to see someone develop an idea and all others access to it.

I hope you are immeasureably rewarded for your outstanding success.


Kindest Regards, Penno

Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #113 on: October 22, 2010, 08:59:53 PM »
Sorry for the off topic, here I try to explain the utility of the air gap in a magnetic circuit: Linearity against frequency, temperature, and magnetisation H...
Permeability is calculated by: u=B/H
When a magnetic circuit is linear the slope of the permability is constant.
When "       "           "     " not linear the slope of the increase rapidly, have a peak and decrease brutaly, in the BTT the non linearity of magnetic material is an ennemy, you must have stable and reliable permeability against H (amperage flowing in the coils) because reluctance is also closely linked with permeability (see page 3 of this topic)...

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #113 on: October 22, 2010, 08:59:53 PM »
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Offline teslaalset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #114 on: October 22, 2010, 09:19:18 PM »
Sorry for the off topic, here I try to explain the utility of the air gap in a magnetic circuit: Linearity against frequency, temperature, and magnetisation H...
Permeability is calculated by: u=B/H
When a magnetic circuit is linear the slope of the permability is constant.
When "       "           "     " not linear the slope of the increase rapidly, have a peak and decrease brutaly, in the BTT the non linearity of magnetic material is an ennemy, you must have stable and reliable permeability against H (amperage flowing in the coils) because reluctance is also closely linked with permeability (see page 3 of this topic)...

SchubertReijiMaigo,

Why do you want to use a gaped core in BITT?

Saturation in the primary core is desired not to be avoided.
If the primary core is not saturated, part of the flux generated in the secondary core will be flowing to the primary core, introducing real power consumption.



Offline teslaalset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #115 on: October 22, 2010, 09:38:36 PM »
Thane,

I found a clue why you measure flux in core 3 with the current clamp.
If the secondary coils are loaded to their maximum current, something interesting happens with the flux lines.
In your drawing Nprim/Nsec = 1000/200, meaning Isec_max= Iprim x Nprim/Nsec, so if I simulate these winding ratios and allow the secondary currents to be exactly 5 times as much as the primary current flux direction go outside the core(s)

As long as the secondary currents do no exceed 5 times the primary current, flux lines stay nicely within the core.
Any secondary load current (identical for both secondary coils) up until that maximum current will end up in a flux flow as indicated in my reply #97 on page 7 of this thread.

Have a look what happens if the secondary currents go to their maximum load:
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 09:58:40 PM by teslaalset »

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #115 on: October 22, 2010, 09:38:36 PM »
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Offline broli

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #116 on: October 22, 2010, 10:10:32 PM »
teslaalset, could you do me a favor and run some FEMM magic.

The attached image shows the setup. Basically I want you to do a circular line integral of the flux density shown by the black circle in the image. The big toroid is just a ferromagnetic toroid with no current. I also added a setup I made in vizimag which doesn't allow circular line integrals. If you need help with the math I can help so you can make the script that calculates the average flux of the loop.

Of course there's a very good reason to this. Let's assume that the average flux through the toroid is non zero. This means if there was a coil wrapped around it it would generate a voltage. This in turn could make a current. What I've seen in the sim is that it doesn't change the flux of the primary, smaller core.

However if the average flux turns out to be zero, the windings of the toroid will not generate any voltage and thus nothing special happens.

Edit: Had to correct something.

Offline penno64

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #117 on: October 22, 2010, 10:26:03 PM »
Guys,

Would it be possible to emulate / simulate Thane's effect using this type of core.

I am uncertain how secondary windings 1 and 2 are connected to load.

Any help greatly appreciated, for I would love to re - create this effect.

Regards, Penno

Offline teslaalset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #118 on: October 22, 2010, 10:32:17 PM »
teslaalset, could you do me a favor and run some FEMM magic.

The attached image shows the setup. Basically I want you to do a circular line integral of the flux density shown by the black circle in the image. The big toroid is just a ferromagnetic toroid with no current. I also added a setup I made in vizimag which doesn't allow circular line integrals. If you need help with the math I can help so you can make the script that calculates the average flux of the loop.

Of course there's a very good reason to this. Let's assume that the average flux through the toroid is non zero. This means if there was a coil wrapped around it it would generate a voltage. This in turn could make a current. What I've seen in the sim is that it doesn't change the flux of the primary, smaller core.

However if the average flux turns out to be zero, the windings of the toroid will not generate any voltage and thus nothing special happens.

Edit: Had to correct something.

Broli,

Can you clarify a few things, so my understanding is correct?
- the big toroid is only ferrite, no coil ?
- the small toroid is also ferrite, with coil?
- what do you mean with on load/no load in the second and third pictures?

Offline broli

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #119 on: October 22, 2010, 10:35:50 PM »
Broli,

Can you clarify a few things, so my understanding is correct?
- the big toroid is only ferrite, no coil ?
- the small toroid is also ferrite, with coil?
- what do you mean with load/no load in the second and third pictures?

1) kind of, see 3)
2) yes
3) no load is basically the case you describe in your first question. In the sim that toroid is really a core 1000 perm. with 0 Amps current. With On load I change the current value to say 10amps to simulate induction action. As the toroidal coil would want to oppose the field of the primary.

 

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