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Discussion board help and admin topics => Half Baked Ideas => Topic started by: Cloxxki on July 16, 2009, 08:47:21 PM

Title: Applications for Aerogels
Post by: Cloxxki on July 16, 2009, 08:47:21 PM
Normally it's not to wise to take a material, and then find a way to get it to some use. Unless its littering your workshop of course, left over from a project.

Aerogels. Polymers composed of mostly empty space, or air. Very fine structures, resulting in densities in the shaving foam range, or below. Yet, while having SOME structural intensity to them. And, as far as I've read, usually with extra-ordinary thermal insulation properties.

General uses already identified and persued that I know of:
- Construction of houses. Whole wall layers from Aerogel, or even just spacing structural wooden beams from the outside wall already significantly increases insulation.
- Windows. Some aerogels are see-though, while insulating from intense heat at minimal thicknesses.
- Space crafts have been mentioned. A light space craft takes little power to be propelled, and crashes softly. Drop out of orbit, and land much like a tree leaf. The decelleration when entering athmosphere may be a bit rough, but heat won't be the problem.
- Apparently, aerogel was once used in clothing. A light winter jacket. People didn't like it. It was TOO hot to wear comfortably. Space suits could be like a full-body wetsuit, when made out of aerogel. Light, and comforatable.
- I read about aerogel used in a tennis racket.

Houses made entirely from Aerogels would, jokingingly theorizing, require a single candle to heat in the worst of winter, and a single cold pint of water to cool things through a hot summer day. Ballpark, those jokes may now even be that far off the mark.

Imagine taking advantage of the seasons (while we still have them).
We dig a huge hole in the ground. Two, actually.
Aerogel lines the walls.
In the winter, on the coldest days, we top off one hole with snow and ice. If local winters don't offer sub-zero temperatures or mountain creeks, just tap off a lake, with the colest water it's got to offer. Lid goes on.
In the summer, water is heated on a nearby "black" field, before being poored in the hole. Lid on.

Aerogel conserves the temperature on each storage almost indefinately. We can tap heat or cold when we need it.
In the old days, every castle had its ice cellar. Deep into the summer or een fall, the ice would keep the meat and fish fresh in there. THe lord of the castle never had to do without of-season feasts.

Obviously, work is to be done to optimize the various kinds of aerogels. Some will need to become less brittle, some will need to bear greater surface pressures. Coatings will be a big deal.
Then, manufacturing costs will need to come down. Volumes increased.
 
I see chances in automotive. Do away with air in the tires, reduce costs. Insulations reduces aircon use, reduces pollution.

With a low-density, and relatively high-strength material, the application are endless. I get the impressing too little is being done for the better of the world. Steel/Aluminum cartel suppression? ;-)
Aerogels have been around for many decades, and I've never seen it, let alone do I own a product utilizing it.

Please use this topic to educate me and others, and to come up with good uses for aerogels, which might justify developing versions special properties.

Thanks,

J
Title: Re: Applications for Aerogels
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on July 16, 2009, 10:37:50 PM
Hi Clox.

I see that your heart is truly trying to be Green.

The Semiconductor Industries will some day use nothing but Aerogels but the cost of manufacturing is the enemy of this so valued material. the price must drop by 1000% to make it a dream come true. it will save the world in more than one way.

Ultra Hard Carbon Nano Tube Aerogels will bring about new space age materials that almost seem Godly by normal standards, the material would be so feather light but so incredibly impervious to projectiles and is not brittle because of it is of a carbon fiber which adds to its superior strength and resilience.

Diamond Thin Film Stranded Carbon Nano Tube Aerogels are the folklore and ferry tales of Elvish Amour that is almost indestructible by nature impervious to chemicals and have the highest heat insulation properties than any other substance. Ferry Tales are not so taled after all.

these Carbon Nano Tube Aerogels will coat everything in the form of thin film Aerogels, Thin film Aerogels are not currently on the table yet but soon.

then there are Solar Cell Technologies that will benefit from Thin film Aerogels that will increase efficiencies to 99.998% because future Areogels with properties undiscovered as of today will be able to trap light with the greatest efficiencies and use this trapped light to convert to electricity.

Buildings made entirely of Photoelectric Aerogels will generate so much electricity that power companies will no longer be needed.

the remaining power would just be stored for other purposes, Thermal Aerogel Solar Cells would be so sensitive that they would work at night with very little temperature, they would also utilize the body heat of people to generate electricity.

Superconductive Aerogels will be another story all to itself! not to mention Magnetic Aerogels as well.

If you really want to get rid of all those power hungry robbers then now is your chance! Study, Research, Test, Test, Test.

What's the best reason to use Aerogels, (Waste Not).
It is the land of ounce not the land of Oz.

America needs to take responsibility for itself.
Jerry ;)
Title: Re: Applications for Aerogels
Post by: Cloxxki on July 17, 2009, 12:31:15 AM
Thanks for the reply Jerry.

But really, if I find out about something great with Aerogels, I may decide to not tell America about it, at all. They'll just clasify it for 20 years, while they do nothing to make the stuff any better.
Title: Re: Applications for Aerogels
Post by: gravityblock on July 21, 2009, 08:09:32 PM
What affects would occur if you made a two-way mirror with a transparent Aerogel?  This could lead to many uses, such as with a laser.

Aerogel fluorescent light bulbs is another application I can think of.  Maybe it wouldn't work as a fluorescent light bulb if it traps most of the light.  Then it would be good for black body radiation experiments.  Possibly cloaking and invisibility of objects.  If it absorbed most of the light, then little to no light would be reflected back to the retina and would appear to be a black body.  This could be very advantageous for covert night time operations, etc.  I'm not sure about this though.

These Aerogels do have the potential to change the world, for the good and for the bad.  What path will we choose?  LOL


GB
Title: Re: Applications for Aerogels
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on July 21, 2009, 09:14:18 PM
I am plagued by Daja Vu.

it is like a haunting, what would you do?

I understand it but yet I don't understand it. it's nuts!

the closer I get the more it haunts me.

I am growing tired of being haunted by my own mind. it is not healthy.

Jerry :o
Title: Re: Applications for Aerogels
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on July 22, 2009, 04:25:17 AM
Cloxxki said:
Quote
General uses already identified and persued that I know of:

... - Space crafts have been mentioned. A light space craft takes little power to be propelled, and crashes softly. Drop out of orbit, and land much like a tree leaf. The decelleration when entering athmosphere may be a bit rough, but heat won't be the problem. ...

Please use this topic to educate me and others, and to come up with good uses for aerogels, which might justify developing versions special properties.
@Cloxxki,
As a sideline to spacecraft insulation, supersonic/hypersonic aircraft insulation should come in a close second.  It has to be resilient in either application, obviously.

Aerospace engineering is also one of my main intersets along with electronic engineering/free energy.
--Lee
Title: Re: Applications for Aerogels
Post by: Cloxxki on July 22, 2009, 08:38:23 AM
@Lee,
I share your feelings here.
It hurts my innovative soul that Concorde flew, flew amazingly, and stopped flying. Since it stopped flying, top cruise speeds for long distance flying has plummeted to less than half.
Alternative designs exist fo a long time, but the powers that be rather invest in oil wars (even if they get little oil out of it) rather than catching up on applied science.
Concorde wasn't even unrealiable. It was simply 30 years old, and little improvements implemented for it. Not bad, for a thing with a French name! Sometimes they get it right (like the Citroën C15), but upgrading, NEVER. Ah, I feel better now. French friends, please notice proverbial wink here.

Ultrasonic crafts will need to deal with heat build-up much like the flawed and equally outdated Spaceshuttle. It once was a modern thing, just not a second reliable like Concorde. I prefer Burt Rutan's approah to re-entry, taking slow, not getting how. More resistance rather than less. Good design, so you end up spending less to get the same, or more.
Also, I think it's sub-human to do so little about gas mileage of air planes. A percent here and there. Private air planes are competing with sports cars for fuel efficiency. A few decades from now, wheels will be seen as a very inefficient way keep a vehicle spaced from the earth. Flying? Even birds do it, on old bread, wurms and rain water.

My own interest is indoor cross-country skiing facilities Ski tunnels. Store lots of cold water/ice/snow, and let that offset the visitor's warmness until the next winter comes and the roof can be opened. With just the addition of good cold storage and retention, such facilities would only need electricity for lighting.
Title: Re: Applications for Aerogels
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on July 22, 2009, 04:31:08 PM
Cloxxki said:
Quote
@Lee,
I share your feelings here.
...Alternative designs exist fo a long time, but the powers that be rather invest in oil wars (even if they get little oil out of it) rather than catching up on applied science. ...
Right!!!  Political games are being played and only they win.

Quote
Ultrasonic crafts will need to deal with heat build-up much like the flawed and equally outdated Spaceshuttle. It once was a modern thing, just not a second reliable like Concorde.
Yep.  There are new materials to do that, but the newest one reflects heat away from the craft, which is absolutely the way to go.

Quote
I prefer Burt Rutan's approah to re-entry, taking slow, not getting how. More resistance rather than less. Good design, so you end up spending less to get the same, or more.
Rutan's SpaceShipOne needs to be redesigned completely to return from orbit.  It's going 8 times as fast, so that's 64 times the heat generated.  Something new is needed.

--Lee
Title: Re: Applications for Aerogels
Post by: Cloxxki on July 22, 2009, 04:57:03 PM
Do you mean SpaceShipOne will need to orbit higher to make it halfway around earth, and then re-enter at higher velocity?

One has to think : how quick to fly this half orbit? Too fast, and the stewardesses will need magnetic shoes to walk the isle. Drinking coffee will become complicated also. Or, go faster still, and orbit inverted. A "sun roof" would show us earth.

Shouldn't we also be thinking of putting all that re-entry heat to better use, rather than just getting rid of it?
Title: Re: Applications for Aerogels
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on July 22, 2009, 06:24:10 PM
Cloxxki said:
Quote
Do you mean SpaceShipOne will need to orbit higher to make it halfway around earth, and then re-enter at higher velocity? One has to think : how quick to fly this half orbit?
At the very least.  How fast?  The SpaceShipOne goes about Mach 3 and the low earth orbit(LEO) satellite is about Mach 25.  That's at least 8 times the velocity and 64 times the BTUs hitting the craft.
(Energy varies by the square of the speed.)

Quote
Too fast, and the stewardesses will need magnetic shoes to walk the isle. Drinking coffee will become complicated also. Or, go faster still, and orbit inverted. A "sun roof" would show us earth.
Yeah.  That's the point of SpaceShipOne's tourist-oriented design.  Weightlessness for, say, 2 minutes.  Then fall out of the upper stratosphere.

Quote
Shouldn't we also be thinking of putting all that re-entry heat to better use, rather than just getting rid of it?
Well, maybe a Bussard-ramjet-type of arrangement to capture ions and electrons to somehow cushion the force of drag on the ship?  Otherwise, it's heat that can melt the ship and fry the crew next after that.

Aerogels can help there, but don't let the heat past it!!  The whole thing will turn into a Roman candle across the sky.   :o

--Lee
Title: Re: Applications for Aerogels
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on July 22, 2009, 06:31:57 PM
I am plagued by Daja Vu.
it is like a haunting, what would you do?
I understand it but yet I don't understand it. it's nuts!
the closer I get the more it haunts me.
I am growing tired of being haunted by my own mind. it is not healthy.

Jerry :o
Hey Jerry,
I had a problem with fear once that I got over.  But that was my main problem.  Read this:

"90% of what happens to people, they do to themselves."
--A spiritual Teacher I once had, whom I'll call Kathy

Kathy has a point.  I learned that myself.  If I can, so can others.  Be honest with yourself and try to work through it.

I did.

--Lee
Title: Re: Applications for Aerogels
Post by: gravityblock on July 23, 2009, 06:59:03 AM
I am plagued by Daja Vu.

it is like a haunting, what would you do?

I understand it but yet I don't understand it. it's nuts!

the closer I get the more it haunts me.

I am growing tired of being haunted by my own mind. it is not healthy.

Jerry :o

You're not alone.  I know what it is like.  You having thoughts and images pop in your head and consuming every waking moment.  It is a wonderful thing, but at the same time it can cause you to lose your mind, because the information is coming in so fast and is mind boggling. 

Everything you hear, see, and read reveals another mystery or hidden thing.  You're mind is not haunted with your own thoughts, but is haunted with thoughts from an external source.  There is literally no room left for your own thoughts, other than trying to understand the information you are receiving.  Consider it as a gift and not a haunting.

(Acts 2:17)   In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

Prophecy describes the disclosing of information that is not known to the prophet by any ordinary means,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy

This is what you are experiencing, disclosure of information from an external source.  You are truly blessed.  As the time draws closer, there will be more and more people experiencing what you have been.  I have experienced this myself.  I won't say anymore than this, cause I will be called a crack pot, but I am sure you understand me.


Take care,

GB



P.S.  You're a drunkard, a saint, and a scholar all rolled up into one.  I'm a stoner, a sinner, and a believer all rolled up into one.  What a combination.  LOL   ;)
Title: Re: Applications for Aerogels
Post by: Cloxxki on July 23, 2009, 02:27:49 PM
Brain fart.
Is the "emptyness" in aerogels air, or true vacume? I believe in most case the former.

I can imagine that with the right structure, a vacume and then gas-proof coated beam of aerogel might be stronger, from being at tension, than when merely being a polymer flavoured beam of air.
Title: Re: Applications for Aerogels
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on July 23, 2009, 04:29:44 PM
Cloxxki said:
Quote
I can imagine that with the right structure, a vacume and then gas-proof coated beam of aerogel might be stronger, from being at tension, than when merely being a polymer flavoured beam of air.
I agree.  One can set the flame of a butane blowtorch up to the bare material and it won't even get very hot.  But can it be compressed into a sheet?   What are its physical properties in that condition?  It might be used as insulation after that, if it's strong enough or can be bonded to metal.

--Lee
Title: Re: Applications for Aerogels
Post by: gravityblock on July 23, 2009, 05:08:21 PM
I find it hard to believe that the aerogels have been publicly known since 1931 and the general public knows very little about it's properties and it's potential uses.  The aerogels could only be made in a lab with expensive equipment and processes in order to do experiments and to study this material until recently.

This is just more evidence of our governments suppressing technology from the public.  I am sure the governments have mastered and perfected these aerogels for all kinds of purposes by now.  It wouldn't surprise me if they don't have a cheap, quick, and easy to control method in manufacturing these aerogels in mass production by now, while the public is still stuck with a time consuming, expensive, and difficult to control methods.  We are nothing but slaves to the powers that be.  We have been bamboozled and hoodwinked again.  LOL


GB
Title: Re: Applications for Aerogels
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on July 23, 2009, 05:12:41 PM
gravityblock said:
Quote
I am sure the governments have mastered and perfected these aerogels for all kinds of purposes by now.  We have been bamboozled and hoodwinked again.  LOL
I agree with your whole post.  A while ago, someone I spoke to who had had a fairly high security clearance implied the same thing.  You're right.