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New Battery systems => Other new battery systems => Topic started by: Pirate88179 on July 15, 2009, 03:40:58 AM

Title: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 15, 2009, 03:40:58 AM
Hello everyone:

I started this topic at the suggestion of Electricme (Jim) who has posted scope shots of his earth battery.  He has noticed some interesting things about the waveforms and I will ask him to re post those pictures here.  Besides the interesting waveform, there appears to be many changes throughout the day, and week, and even month.

So, his idea was to have a place where folks from all over the world can make a simple earth battery and then take periodic measurements of the output on their scopes and post the results here.  This will be the central repository of this information.

We want to see if we can correlate these waveforms from all over our planet into some kind of pattern or patterns that are repeatable.  Maybe they are, maybe not.  With all of the lightning activity on our planet we might be able to see some correlation between storm activity, or earthquake activity on our scopes and maybe then we can make some sense of this data.

This will require only the making of a small, simple earth battery and to also have access to an oscilloscope with which to take the readings and then post your scope shots here, indicating the location and time of the shots.

Jim also wanted me to ask for any programmer out there who may have or can write a program we can use (free) to enable folks to use their sound cards on their computers to upload data as it comes in from the scopes.  Jim can speak more to this than I can so if you have any questions about this, pm Electricme with your questions.

I know of no university or research group anywhere in the world that has done a project like this so, everyone that participates will be helping to assemble data that has never been gathered before.

More to come...

Thank you,

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 15, 2009, 05:45:14 AM
@ ALL,

First of all, before I make my own thoughts known here, I would like to thank Bill (Pirate88179) for making this forum, a very big thank you Bill, TA.

As Bill mentioned in his above first post there seems to be a lack of Earth Energy data available and we want to see what really is going on between a set of probes stuck in the ground.

So how did this forum come into existence?

I was speaking to Bill on the phone about different matters, and the Earth Battery came up.
Over the last couple of years, I have made a few earth battery readings and I have been left more confused after each time.

To get to data, you need to make something to access it first, thankfully, this is the easy bit, so easy in fact their question arises, why hasn't anyone done this before, for the purpose of recording the electrical activity in the earth?

It is easy enough to make your own Earth Battery.
You will need two dissimilar metals, they could be Copper and Steel.
Copper and Aluminium
Carbon and Magnesium (give the best results) are able to produce more, but they are much more expensive.

But as Copper pipe is the easiest to get, use that and a length of Steel or Aluminium rod.
 
It seems the more cross sectional area that can be exposed in the earth, the better, and drive either into the ground with a hammer.

Before you do that, get a compass and look for "NORTH"  Put the copper pipe (electrode) in there.
Next step is the south, but connect a DMM (multimeter for newbies) and look for the highest reading, at that spot, drive the last electrode in there.

Now, how do we take a reading from our "new" EB or Earth Battery?

Easy, switch on the DMM, select the "voltage" range, and place the negative probe to the Steel or Aluminium electrode, put the Positave (RED) probe to the copper electrode, and you should see a very very small voltage.

You will not be able to light a torch bulb with it, but you should be able to see a WAVEFORM of the earths electrical activity, if you have a oscilloscope or if you have a datalogger, you could examine it from this.

How have I recorded the EE (Earths Energy).
Take a look see at the first photo, I hurriedly drew this up just now, it is a very basic way to see how what goes where.
 
I use my faithful old cro and record it by my mobile phone, on video or by photographing the cro image, then post here.

See below pics.
All the cro pics were taken at different days and times.


jim 
 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 15, 2009, 06:45:32 AM
Hi everybody,

These are harder to see than jim's.
They are all taken today july 14
The wave between the markers is 2.5MHz on all of them. They are just shown at different resolutions. closest in (first) to farthest away ( last).
South of Seattle WA

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 15, 2009, 07:39:20 AM
@ all,

So far my experience with earth energy is taking some photos of my cro displaying what they see connected to my earth battery.

When I look at the waveforms, they are constantly moving, they do not stand still.
They can rise upward, or reduce in height, sections of the wave can be seen to move slowly, or in other cases move rapidly.

Other times the same setup shows waveforms that are rounded at the top of the wave, it can be flat at other times.
Again, the same setup might show a rippling, and I have seen the wave form bounce or oscillate, it might do this slowly or fast.
A couple of years ago I even saw ringing in the same setup.

So it constantly changes, it is never the same from hour to hour or day to day, it is in a constant flux.

So what is happening here? I havent a clue, and I want to know and share what I do know with others who might want to join this topic.

I will make a few more posts, then see what happens.

jim

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 15, 2009, 07:45:04 AM
@ Jim:

This was a great idea you had for this topic.  I hope we can get data from many other areas on our planet to compare.

@ Jeanna:

Thank you for posting your shots.  I will do so soon as well.  I think this will really tell us something.  I also want to take measurements during a storm, not a close one but, while one is in the area just to see what, if any, difference we might see.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 15, 2009, 01:54:17 PM
Awesome idea guys. I will put one together today! Not sure if I have any carbon so it will be most probably copper and zinc.

Do not have a compass either so I will guess :)

@jeanna

What do I need to set our scope to?

Thanks!

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 15, 2009, 02:13:11 PM
@all

Ok here is my simple earth battery. I am getting .935Volts form this setup. It is a big zinc roofing nail and a small piece of copper pipe.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 15, 2009, 03:03:35 PM
@Altrez
Excellent, that's the way. ;)

@all
Ok here is my simple earth battery. I am getting .935Volts form this setup. It is a big zinc roofing nail and a small piece of copper pipe.
-Altrez

Nice tidy bare earth garden there I see  :D .935volts is pritty good, nothing to be sneezed at, its better than mine   lol.

Yes Jeanna will be the best to advise you about duplicating her scope settings, and if your results are similar to hers, then it could be a bench mark to begin with.

cheers all
jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 15, 2009, 03:15:10 PM
@All
Here is the EB scope and I made a TWV for people to look at and download if they wish to.
If you look below there is a small paper clip, just double click on this and you can see the TWV.

After looking at several of these videos, you will begin to see the earth energy wave as it pulces through, I don't know why the top of the wave has flattened out a bit, but this has been this way since yesterday.

There seems to be a small ringing or Pulse at the bottom in the trough of the wave and something on the verticals also.

enjoy

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 15, 2009, 03:35:24 PM
@All,
Here is a even closer image of tonight's EB scope shots.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 15, 2009, 03:48:52 PM
@Bill,

Thank you Bill, I also hope there are others who will jump on board, this is fasinating stuff.
 
@ Jim:

This was a great idea you had for this topic.  I hope we can get data from many other areas on our planet to compare.

@ Jeanna:

Thank you for posting your shots.  I will do so soon as well.  I think this will really tell us something.  I also want to take measurements during a storm, not a close one but, while one is in the area just to see what, if any, difference we might see.

Bill
Good idea to see if you can record any electrical strikes from storms, just be very careful.
If you feel the hair raising up on the back of the neck, dive for cover.

I will have to wait until October at the earliest for storms as I live on the underside (Australia) of this great planet of ours.

I had an idea, what say I make just a single coil on a toroid and bury this in a plastic bag, take a couple of leads out to another cro and see what gives, ,,,,, and compare it with the EB electrodes.

Goodnight all, I'm off to bed-e-byes, too tired to tink ploply  :D
 
jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on July 15, 2009, 05:23:26 PM
My idea for this datalogging would be for someone to program a program to make sure that the computer sends data from the sound card and then to the online database each second prehaps or 5 minutes or whatever, along with the weather conditions and the date to get a better picture and prehaps earthquake data which can also be sought online but i feel earthquake data is not live.

weather.co.uk or weather.com for example

But you got to leave your pc on all day and night, and since i know about bui
lding computers..if you really want a energy saving computer go for a atom based desktop or a pc with a intel e5200 or e7200 or higher processer, i recommend the e5200 and e7200 or higher because it gets work done faster since it has more power and saves electric.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-atom-efficiency,2069-11.html
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on July 15, 2009, 06:17:23 PM
You can buy a dc voltage only (0-30) data logger for less than a $100. For both Voltage and current they get pricey.
http://www.microdaq.com/lascar/usb/el-usb-3.php
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 15, 2009, 06:28:41 PM

 copper and zinc.
.....
@jeanna

What do I need to set our scope to?

Copper and zinc are .8 in a glass, if I recall, so you are fine there. I got 1.03 last night when I tool those shots.
I do not see the voltage on the scope, though. I use my dmm for that.

First use the left key until you see a line.
The scope needs to be set for a very small voltage... so use the up key until you see a wiggle on the line.
Then you are in the range.
Keep going up until you see some good action.
It is usually in the 50mv /div range.

Once there go to the right. This takes you to a higher and higher frequency between the markers.

Do you know about the markers?

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 15, 2009, 06:28:51 PM
You can buy a dc voltage only (0-30) data logger for less than a $100. For both Voltage and current they get pricey.
http://www.microdaq.com/lascar/usb/el-usb-3.php

Thank you! That looks great! I have an old laptop I can hook all this up to and push it to the web :)

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 15, 2009, 06:31:29 PM
Copper and zinc are .8 in a glass, if I recall, so you are fine there. I got 1.03 last night when I tool those shots.
I do not see the voltage on the scope, though. I use my dmm for that.

First use the left key until you see a line.
The scope needs to be set for a very small voltage... so use the up key until you see a wiggle on the line.
Then you are in the range.
Keep going up until you see some good action.
It is usually in the 50mv /div range.

Once there go to the right. This takes you to a higher and higher frequency between the markers.

Do you know about the markers?

jeanna

Thank you :) Yes I do you showed me the markers. I will take those tests soon :)

Thanks!

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 16, 2009, 01:48:56 AM
@All,
I want to thank everyone for their posting so far, everyone is doing very well here, the information is excellent, already there is another person who PM me and wants the http address so I will do this shortly. :D

But first I have to make a hurried trip away for a few hours, to visit a friend out in the sticks.
Got a phone call for help last night, so he is getting a free B&S engine, a farmer down on his luck, hope he can put it to good usage.

I will catch up here when I return.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 16, 2009, 04:11:10 AM
Here are some scope shots of my earth battery.  These were taken today, 07-15-09 @ 8:55 cst.  Location: Bowling Green, Kentucky, USA
36 degrees, 56 minutes, 15 seconds North Latitude
86 degrees, 26 minutes, 53 seconds West Longitude

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: infringer on July 16, 2009, 04:13:02 AM
Do you do all of your testing at night to eliminate the fact that photons penetrate deep beneath the earths surface?

If not this is where I would strictly do testing on dark nights yes a bit difficult but it eliminates the fact that it may not be a slight solar related reaction.

That is my thoughts worthless I know and most likely already said the earth battery is interesting but at the same time a tough thing to make happen in useful quantities.

Thank You for sharing and testing.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 16, 2009, 04:27:55 AM
Now this is what I got when I tried to isolate what I saw as 3 different waves on the same pattern.  I just slowed down the sec/div. and increased the volts/div. and got this!!  It took a lot of fine tuning and tweaking but this waveform froze perfectly and remained very solid and steady.


07-15-09 @ 8:55 cst. 
Location: Bowling Green, Kentucky, USA
 36 degrees, 56 minutes, 15 seconds North Latitude
 86 degrees, 26 minutes, 53 seconds West Longitude
 
 Bill

Infringer:

You call 5kw not useful?  I can put that to good use I assure you.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 16, 2009, 06:11:35 AM
NICE BILL,

I think this has a familiar look to it, doesn't it?
Did you make a note of how many KHz? or MHz you were seeing in one wave?
I know one wave is tricky, but I see 2.4 or 2.5 MHz pretty regularly.

My earth battery must have run down!  ;D my dmm said 0.005v so I packed it up for the day. this happens sometimes. I dunno.

Great stuff, Bill.

... so, did you hang a wire? or did you take the scope outside? just curious.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: newbie123 on July 16, 2009, 06:21:23 AM

You call 5kw not useful?  I can put that to good use I assure you.

5kW from an earth battery?  Where? How? Maybe I missed something.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 16, 2009, 06:36:14 AM
5kW from an earth battery?  Where? How? Maybe I missed something.

yeah you missed the part where he was full of #%*^.....

earth batteries rarely produce over 2volts.
so, you mean to tell me hes getting 2500+ amps of current from 2 pieces of metal in the ground??  im not buying that....

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 16, 2009, 06:39:33 AM
5kW from an earth battery?  Where? How? Maybe I missed something.

Check out my Kapandze topic.  He was originally getting 5kW but I believe he is up to over 100.  Earth battery, Joule thief and Tesla.

Thanks Jeanna!  I actually had 3 waves wound together and I was able to pick out and stabilize one (maybe 2) and those are the second 2 pictures.  I made a video which will be on youtube and I will post a link here.  I did not check the freq. but I can do that. (I forgot)  I just ran an extension cord outside (Thanks Jim) and matched up the polarity form my EB to the scope which was still inside.  Heavy thunder and lightning here which got really bad about 10 minutes after my tests so I took everything down.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 16, 2009, 06:46:28 AM
yeah you missed the part where he was full of #%*^.....

earth batteries rarely produce over 2volts.
so, you mean to tell me hes getting 2500+ amps of current from 2 pieces of metal in the ground??  im not buying that....

Hey smart guy, read the other topic and then tell me again what you think, ok?  I never said I was getting that..he was speaking of useful power and the Russian, and now several others, are getting just that.  He uses a water pipe and a buried car radiator which ARE two pieces of metal stuck in the ground.

Here is a link:  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7679.0



Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 16, 2009, 08:36:36 AM
@ Litfdaniel1

Welcome to this brand spanking new forum, and thank you for you suggestions. :D

My idea for this datalogging would be for someone to program a program to make sure that the computer sends data from the sound card and then to the online database each second prehaps or 5 minutes or whatever, along with the weather conditions and the date to get a better picture and prehaps earthquake data which can also be sought online but i feel earthquake data is not live.

weather.co.uk or weather.com for example

But you got to leave your pc on all day and night, and since i know about bui
lding computers..if you really want a energy saving computer go for a atom based desktop or a pc with a intel e5200 or e7200 or higher processer, i recommend the e5200 and e7200 or higher because it gets work done faster since it has more power and saves electric.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-atom-efficiency,2069-11.html

I had not thought of including the local conditions, this is an excellent suggestion, also haveing a 24hr access to a database is good for those who are researching this.
Maby a real time waveform display setup, showing different places so they could be compared.

I wouldn't have the foggiest on setting up a website to handle this, it would have to be done when ever some kind programmer could make the software first.

But lets start first slow and build up gradually.

The hardest would be the data logger.


jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: WilbyInebriated on July 16, 2009, 08:53:07 AM
great ideas!

if someone more familiar would give a list of the things you want to keep track of, i can make a db for you all, with 24 hour web access. if the software exports a csv or otherwise delimited file. i can also whip up a script to allow that file to be uploaded into the db to save on some manual data entry.

as llftdaniel1 noted, an energy efficient pc is nice to have for long term logging. i use my good ol' dell axim.

edit: i use this on my dell axim, but they make a pc version too, maybe this would work? 8x8 parameter data logger included. iirc the pc sound card limits the range to 48kHz though. 21 day free trial. http://www.virtins.com/
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 16, 2009, 09:03:57 AM
@ IotaYodi,

Thankyou for your input, and welcome to the new forum.

You can buy a dc voltage only (0-30) data logger for less than a $100. For both Voltage and current they get pricey.
http://www.microdaq.com/lascar/usb/el-usb-3.php

I have taken a look at this dc voltage logger, and I see it can log from 0-30volts, this would be very good for anyone who just wanted to keep track of the voltage from the earth battery.

I think it would not be quite suitable for recording waveforms, the way the electrical activerty occurs as it flows through the earth.
Mabe a cro scope usb would be the way for some of us, hmmm this is all new ground for me.

Thankyou for your suggestion though, it is a pprecieated.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 16, 2009, 09:15:53 AM
@Infringer
Thankyou for your input here and welcome.

Do you do all of your testing at night to eliminate the fact that photons penetrate deep beneath the earths surface?

If not this is where I would strictly do testing on dark nights yes a bit difficult but it eliminates the fact that it may not be a slight solar related reaction.

That is my thoughts worthless I know and most likely already said the earth battery is interesting but at the same time a tough thing to make happen in useful quantities.

Thank You for sharing and testing.

I have suspected photons would be an influence to readings, but would it be strong or slight? I don't really know, this why I am asking.

Thanks

jim


Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 16, 2009, 09:21:42 AM
@Bill,
Wow, what have you there on your scope?

Now this is what I got when I tried to isolate what I saw as 3 different waves on the same pattern.  I just slowed down the sec/div. and increased the volts/div. and got this!!  It took a lot of fine tuning and tweaking but this waveform froze perfectly and remained very solid and steady.


07-15-09 @ 8:55 cst. 
Location: Bowling Green, Kentucky, USA
 36 degrees, 56 minutes, 15 seconds North Latitude
 86 degrees, 26 minutes, 53 seconds West Longitude
 
 Bill

Infringer:

You call 5kw not useful?  I can put that to good use I assure you.

I havent seen anything like those readings, just take a look at those spikes there, no wonder you are managing to charge those SC of yours.
This is exciting stuff.

Keep a record of those settings somewhere and see if you can replicate them, say in a week.

Good work Bill.

jim   
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 16, 2009, 09:27:21 AM
Here is my video of today's experiments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjBAU4HAMfs

It is a bit hard to see but if you look close, you can see the huge spikes that seem to occur in a random fashion.  There was a sever storm going on in the area at the time which is what inspired me to do this.  The storm was about 5 miles away at this time and it began to really rain and storm right after so I had to close everything down for safety reasons.

I think the second waveform is the most interesting in that, you can see as I tune it in, there are 3 distinct overlapping waves in a braided rope like form and then, with the right adjustments (thanks Jim) I was able to freeze the wave and you can clearly see it.  This amazes me.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 16, 2009, 09:34:49 AM
Jim:

That is a great video you posted.  I just now was able to view it.  Man, that flat top wave is incredible.  I wonder what would cause this?  I also like how your sine wave floats around like it is on the ocean.  Very interesting stuff here.  Thanks for all of your scope advice and yes, I have the settings and can/should be able to repeat this unless the signal changes due to earth conditions.

@ Wilby:

Thanks for your offer, that would be very helpful.  That type of thing is over my head.

@ Altrez:

Nice work man.  That is a good output especially for right off of the bat.  Great work!

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 16, 2009, 09:43:45 AM
@WilbyInebriated

Hello there Wilby, thanks for these excellent suggestions.

great ideas!

if someone more familiar would give a list of the things you want to keep track of, i can make a db for you all, with 24 hour web access. if the software exports a csv or otherwise delimited file i can also whip up a script to allow that file to be uploaded into the db to save on some manual data entry.

as llftdaniel1 noted, an energy efficient pc is nice to have for long term logging. i use my good ol' dell axim.

edit: i use this on my dell axim, but they make a pc version too, maybe this would work? 8x8 parameter data logger included. iirc the pc sound card limits the range to 48kHz though. 21 day free trial. http://www.virtins.com/

Yeasss Wilby, if you could wip up something for us all, this would be excellent, put me on Beta List please  :D

I have 3 laptops, each with a different version of windows
If your db will work on a Linux, I'm sure Jeanna would stick her hand up for a copy also, give her a PM to be sure though.

I havent had any time today to look at the JT or EB topics, I'm trying to digest just this first.
I will just take a look at virtims.com  ;)

Thanks Wilby
hooroo
jim
 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 16, 2009, 01:38:52 PM
@all

I hooked my scope up to the earth battery and get no readings at all except for some slight ripples in the wave. I did notice however that my DMM showed .970 out put in the afternoon. that's a bit higher then when I checked it out in the morning.

Anyone have an idea whey my scope shows almost noting? Its got fresh battery's.

Thanks!

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 16, 2009, 01:39:55 PM

@ Altrez:

Nice work man.  That is a good output especially for right off of the bat.  Great work!

Bill

Thank you :)

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on July 16, 2009, 03:26:47 PM
Very nice you got those results in such stormy conditions and since the thunderstorm is affecting the earth you clearly got that, but i believe nothing is random in the energy world but i know what you mean though..

Nice work.

Dan.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on July 16, 2009, 04:08:54 PM
I have wiped up a cpu list.

http://h.imagehost.org/view/0314/Untitled

It will have to be custom built..makes it cheaper anyways and newegg is in the usa and canada while i live in the uk.

All that this list needs is a cd/dvd rom drive..i was gonna pick the samsung sh-s223f..prehaps from an old pc.

Anyways corsair 400w is a good psu..i know i done my research, it won't whine or hiss but then if it does it can be rma'd easy.

You can also overclock the e5200 to like 4ghz which will give it plenty of power..if you need it..but you may need to buy a aftermarket socket 775 cpu cooler along with mx-2 thermal grease for the processer since it is a bit better than arctic silver 5.

Gigabyte is a motherboard manufacturer i would recommend as well as asus.

Or if you need a seperate pc that will just do the job and is not a powerhouse then i recommend an intel atom..prehaps prebuilt for whatever purpose..its cpu power is like that of a pentium 3 or just use your old pc.

I literally spent hours researching because i wanted to build a gaming machine so anyways this one is more suited for general tasks with plenty of power from the intel processer which is the e5200..if it is not enough which will be a very unlikely then you can overclock it easy to like 3.6ghz or 4ghz and oh intel processers are quad pumped... if you had a e8400 which has a fsb of like 1333mhz / 4 it is like 333mhz... and if you wanted to overclock it to 3.6ghz then you need pc6400 800mhz ram divide by 2 and that is 400mhz and regarding the cpu multiplier if you get the fsb to 400mhz or 1600fsb then you get 3.6ghz from the e8400 processer for example.

They overclock very well and run for ages..my expensive q9550 processer is running at 3.6ghz but if you was to overclock a q9550 get a p45 based motherboard ;).
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: newbie123 on July 16, 2009, 05:37:45 PM
What is supposed to make the "earth battery" any different from a regular electrochemical battery?   It seems like the voltages observed by 'earth battery' experimenters are pretty much consistent with dirt electrochemical batteries. 

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 16, 2009, 07:56:53 PM
great ideas!

if someone more familiar would give a list of the things you want to keep track of, i can make a db for you all, with 24 hour web access.

Hi wilby,
Will you program that in a java type language or at least not MS specific? something browser based would be really cool and so much more universal and open...

[soap box.. stepping down now.]

thanks wilby,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 16, 2009, 08:04:35 PM
@all

I hooked my scope up to the earth battery and get no readings at all except for some slight ripples in the wave.


Anyone have an idea whey my scope shows almost noting? Its got fresh battery's.

Thanks!

-Altrez
Hi Altrez,
It is the range.

Once you see the ripples click the up arrow until the range shows Mv like 50MV range, then
Switch to the right arrow for a while. then up again.
Once in range you will get all those.

Unless of course that rms instead of peak to peak etc. is displayed or
the ground dc switch got turned on and the ac is off. That is a toggle with a short pulse with your thumb.

Let me know if it still isn't working,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 16, 2009, 08:14:15 PM
Hi Altrez,
It is the range.

Once you see the ripples click the up arrow until the range shows Mv like 50MV range, then
Switch to the right arrow for a while. then up again.
Once in range you will get all those.

Unless of course that rms instead of peak to peak etc. is displayed or
the ground dc switch got turned on and the ac is off. That is a toggle with a short pulse with your thumb.

Let me know if it still isn't working,

jeanna

Ok so all i need to do is turn on the scope. Hit the Div button. Press up until I see the small ripples and then hit left?

I am sure its looking for AC should I change it to look for DC?

Thanks!

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 16, 2009, 08:28:15 PM

I think the second waveform is the most interesting in that, you can see as I tune it in, there are 3 distinct overlapping waves in a braided rope like form and then, with the right adjustments (thanks Jim) I was able to freeze the wave and you can clearly see it.  This amazes me.

Bill
Thanks for posting that video. I knew we would all be glad when you got your scope up n running!
Thanks Jim for helping Bill, too.

I get the braided rope too, but when I freeze it, I don't see more than a single wave. I just assumed it was too quick for my eyes.
I think I will go out and see what is happening in the heat of the noonday sun. (Photons with blue sky background are what make it possible for me to catch it on my camera.)

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 16, 2009, 08:36:42 PM
Ok so all i need to do is turn on the scope. Hit the Div button. Press up until I see the small ripples and then hit left?
left first only if there is no x axis.
Right after you get the x axis,
Up to get the ripples and up more to get them nice and tall,
then right to see them closer in and spread the wave out a bit.
I get the smooth curve at the 2us spot = all the way to the right. but I cannot start there. There will be no x axis.
Quote
I am sure its looking for AC should I change it to look for DC?
No AC is what you DO want.
I was trying to think of the things that have stopped me.
I always check for AC if I am not getting what I think I should get.

The rms instead of peak to peak is also a sure killer.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 16, 2009, 08:40:02 PM
left first only if there is no x axis.
Right after you get the x axis,
Up to get the ripples and up more to get them nice and tall,
then right to see them closer in and spread the wave out a bit.
I get the smooth curve at the 2us spot = all the way to the right. but I cannot start there. There will be no x axis.No AC is what you DO want.
I was trying to think of the things that have stopped me.
I always check for AC if I am not getting what I think I should get.

The rms instead of peak to peak is also a sure killer.

jeanna

How do I make sure its not RMS? Is there a way to make sure its peak to peak?

Thank you :)

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 16, 2009, 09:00:12 PM
How do I make sure its not RMS? Is there a way to make sure its peak to peak?

Thank you :)

-Altrez
There is hardly anything today. I just went out.
I will post my shots in a minute.
The screen will tell you if it is reading rms or peak to peak but you just need to look.
If you still cannot see it after you look closely at your screen, um maybe a pic, but I have a hard time seeing the digital numbers on a pic.

I want to post my pix of today first. This may be just what you are getting too.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 16, 2009, 09:24:43 PM
There is hardly anything today. I just went out.
I will post my shots in a minute.
The screen will tell you if it is reading rms or peak to peak but you just need to look.
If you still cannot see it after you look closely at your screen, um maybe a pic, but I have a hard time seeing the digital numbers on a pic.

I want to post my pix of today first. This may be just what you are getting too.

jeanna

How do I switch back and forth between peak to peak and RMS?

Thanks!

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 16, 2009, 09:35:31 PM
Here are some pix from today.
edit,
South of Seattle, Washington, west coast US
(Altrez I will pm you now.)
My dmm says 0.8v
I will try to put them in order of whole wave first to closest in last.
Normally I see a big wave and the things here today are like carrier waves on that bigger wave, but today that bigger wave is flat. No triple or even  double wave today either.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 16, 2009, 10:40:11 PM
Jeanna:

Your first pic still had those jagged edges like mine and Jim's.  I won't say where your location is but if you wanted to generally say (as in geographical region) I will leave that up to you but, you know where I am and where Jim is and I think it is amazing that we can see these similar waveforms with the jagged edges.  That covers a large section of the planet with the 3 of us and I am not sure where Altrez is located...but it will be cool to see some more results from other locations.

Great photos!  Yours show up better than mine from my camera.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: WilbyInebriated on July 16, 2009, 11:13:51 PM
Hi wilby,
Will you program that in a java type language or at least not MS specific? something browser based would be really cool and so much more universal and open...

[soap box.. stepping down now.]

thanks wilby,

jeanna
absolutely jeanna, browser based so everyone can use it.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 17, 2009, 02:13:30 AM
absolutely jeanna, browser based so everyone can use it.

OK where is that kissypoo.
 :-*
Everyone thanks you, wilby.

@Bill,
I edited my pix to include my location. I will try to do that each time.


jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 17, 2009, 07:09:40 AM
@Jeanna,
No worries, I get a good feeling helping people.

Thanks for posting that video. I knew we would all be glad when you got your scope up n running!
Thanks Jim for helping Bill, too.

I get the braided rope too, but when I freeze it, I don't see more than a single wave. I just assumed it was too quick for my eyes.
I think I will go out and see what is happening in the heat of the noonday sun. (Photons with blue sky background are what make it possible for me to catch it on my camera.)

jeanna

I look back to the time when you had no scope, then you got your handheld scope, and you didn't have a clue how to make it work.
Now look at you, helping Altrez with his scope, well done Jeanna, and it won't be too long before Altrez will be helping someone, no doubt one day he will be able to tell you how a particular feature works on your scope. :D
The wheel goes round slowly, but it make's a revolution.

@Bill
I have an answer for you, about the "flat top" on those wave forms of mine.
I read where someone had hooked up a solar garden light to his earth battery, he was able to get his solar light to recharge via it.
So I decided to do the same.
I took that still and video series while the GL was connected to the EB, when I removed this connection, the waveform returned to normal.

@All,
I have looked at Bills video on YT, I have not seen this unusual rope line before, and Jeanna has seen this on her scope, but I haven't.
Is this peculiar just to your locations?, I must tuck away for further reference sometime.

I can hardly wait for stormy summer time here

Just a snippet of info for the folks who post here, our great friend Wilby has been very busy indeed, I'm very excited about his creative ability, I am very very impressed.
Can't say any more just yet, big surprises soon.  ;D


jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 17, 2009, 07:10:47 AM
Hey smart guy, read the other topic and then tell me again what you think, ok?  I never said I was getting that..he was speaking of useful power and the Russian, and now several others, are getting just that.  He uses a water pipe and a buried car radiator which ARE two pieces of metal stuck in the ground.

Here is a link:  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7679.0



Bill

sorry Bill, i didnt mean to ruffle your feathers there...

have YOU been able to get that kind of power out of an earth battery??  if not,. what is the most power you HAVE gotten??

ive made some pretty large ones myself, and while size of the metal does have an effect, the proportions to support that claim would be more like burying a HOUSE, not a car radiator...

aside from that, i also notice a 30-v Deep-Cell battery with the top cracked open..

times like this i wish i could speak more Russian....

this system seems to be an earth-amplifier, not an 'earth battery ' as we commonly understand them.

They hook up a NORMAL battery, that has been opened and shorted internally to increase its output (and thus lowering its lifetime) so theres no real way of knowing how much 'power' they are putting in, though one guy says its 40W, i believe the way they modified that battery it 'could be' putting out far more than 13A.

i cant identify some of the things in these videos. but if i understand the little bit i could (correctly), they inject electricity into the 'earth-amplifier', and get back a much greater quantity.

Also, the localized current flowing through the ground is unknown in that region.  As Tesla demonstrated once here in the states, the ground near a powerplant is greatly energized, you can pull curent from it and also create constructive-interference waveforms and amplify this energy over time.

This may be what is happening in those videos. 

i didnt have the stamina to read through all 44 pages of speculation and conjecture in that thread you linked. But from examining the source videos, i have to say this system is NOT AN EARTH BATTERY!!! 

When someone can replicate a 5 KW earth battery anywhere in the world, then i MAY shed some of my skepticism.

i dont say this to deter the work you guys are doing in THIS THREAD. i think what we have going on here is fantastic and will teach us a lot about the internal workings of mother earth and her electrical flow.

i do NOT, however, think we can get 5KW from a simple earth battery, which is what was claimed, and thus i stand by my earlier comment.

Thanks, 
           Sm0ky



Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 17, 2009, 07:21:17 AM
@ Bill

in your video you posted yesterday
when you are looking at those 3 overlapping waveforms, theres a
moment on the clip where you have all 3 appear like sinwaves out of phase with one another

this looks identicle to the waveform produced by a 3-phase A/C motor when ran as a generator.

have you attempted to rectify this A/C pattern, to either bring them all in-phase or the whole thing to DC?

might be worth looking into.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 17, 2009, 07:30:11 AM
sorry Bill, i didnt mean to ruffle your feathers there...

have YOU been able to get that kind of power out of an earth battery??  if not,. what is the most power you HAVE gotten??

ive made some pretty large ones myself, and while size of the metal does have an effect, the proportions to support that claim would be more like burying a HOUSE, not a car radiator...

aside from that, i also notice a 30-v Deep-Cell battery with the top cracked open..

times like this i wish i could speak more Russian....

this system seems to be an earth-amplifier, not an 'earth battery ' as we commonly understand them.

They hook up a NORMAL battery, that has been opened and shorted internally to increase its output (and thus lowering its lifetime) so theres no real way of knowing how much 'power' they are putting in, though one guy says its 40W, i believe the way they modified that battery it 'could be' putting out far more than 13A.

i cant identify some of the things in these videos. but if i understand the little bit i could (correctly), they inject electricity into the 'earth-amplifier', and get back a much greater quantity.

Also, the localized current flowing through the ground is unknown in that region.  As Tesla demonstrated once here in the states, the ground near a powerplant is greatly energized, you can pull curent from it and also create constructive-interference waveforms and amplify this energy over time.

This may be what is happening in those videos. 

i didnt have the stamina to read through all 44 pages of speculation and conjecture in that thread you linked. But from examining the source videos, i have to say this system is NOT AN EARTH BATTERY!!! 

When someone can replicate a 5 KW earth battery anywhere in the world, then i MAY shed some of my skepticism.

i dont say this to deter the work you guys are doing in THIS THREAD. i think what we have going on here is fantastic and will teach us a lot about the internal workings of mother earth and her electrical flow.

i do NOT, however, think we can get 5KW from a simple earth battery, which is what was claimed, and thus i stand by my earlier comment.

Thanks, 
           Sm0ky

No worries.  Here is the thing.  I began that topic because a friend on youtube thought I would be interested, which I was of course, and he wanted me to put it out on the forums in hope of getting it translated.  As it turns out, that is exactly what we did do if you read through the topic.  It is Russian, as it turns out (that was news to me of course) and it appeared that something great was taking place.

Well, leave it to the folks on OU forum to jump in with translations, patents, schematics, etc and there is a lot going on over there.  This is real from what I can tell.

Now, about the earth battery part,...I originally named the topic something about earth energy and put it in the earth battery section.  Well, Stefan, our forum owner/manager, decided to move it and rename it, which was fine by me because I didn't really know what the heck was going on there anyway.

What it turns out is that you can set up a resonance system with the earth that you initially pulse to get going (hence the battery in the first series of video) and then it not only runs itself but puts out 5kw.  This is after the battery is disconnected.  later, he improved it for more output and only used a 9 volt battery to start it.

So is it an earth battery?  Are earth batteries really batteries at all?  Probably not but it does use 2 metals in the ground as we have done and it does put out amazing amounts of real, usuable power and there are patents on this.  Maybe my earth battery is more of an earth energy receiver than a battery?  I could live with that.

Anyway, we are all here to learn and I guess I am a little sensitive to folks on youtube telling me I can never do anything with an EB, except, maybe light an led for a few seconds.  Of course, this was posted on my video of me lighting a 48" tube from it, and later 400 leds.

Check out the rest of that topic over there.  You may be able to help.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 17, 2009, 07:48:08 AM
@SmOky

Hello there, I read your remarks about Bill efforts to get a certain amount of energy out of a Earth Battery, Bill has been able to light up several hundred LEDs, he has been able to light up a fluro tube, he also has been able to light up fluro tubes in "series", this is a big achievement in my book.

Bill is not the only person here to have done this, several of us here have lit fluro tubes (I am one of them) I also have been able to drive a tiny electric motor from earth energy, which I accumulated from my own earth battery, I posted a TWV back on Bills Joule Thief Forum to prove this.

So how was this done?
We researched this as a team, there were about a dozen of us, over the last 3-4 years who have stayed through it on several forums.
In the very early weeks of the Joule Thief forum we all began building our own Joule Thiefs, to learn more, then some bright spark remarked "what about connecting a JT to an earth battery" how about I connect a Super Cap to it to see if it will fill up, can a EB fill a modified camera, to drive something.
WE discovered the EB can fill a Super Cap, and WE went on to drive other circuits as well.
WE discovered the EB energy can reach to 600volts or more if we connect a JT to it.
I use the word WE not as a flame, but to emphasise it was a team effort that did it.

I don't blame you for being critical, if I read that such and such a person had managed to do what is claimed in the video7 series, then I would want proof, proof, proof of this claim.
Don't worry, proof either confirming or denying the claim will occur, but in regard to Bills efforts, I believe they are very genuine, open and honest, as are everyones efforts are here.


I encourage you to grab a copper and a steel pipe/bar and drive them in the dirt, then take your multimeter, measure it on low volt scale and post your reading is here.
Copper is the North position and Steel the South position, make them about 3 feet apart.

hooroo

jim

 

 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: newbie123 on July 17, 2009, 08:04:40 AM
Bill has been able to light up several hundred LEDs, he has been able to light up a fluro tube, he also has been able to light up fluro tubes in "series", this is a big achievement in my book.

Big achievement?   These experiments are neat and all, but what makes this method different from the electrochemical cells or 'earth batteries' experimented with 100 years ago?  How do you know the power isn't electrochemical and really a telluric power source?


Getting 1-2 volts out of the dirt (metals) and believing it's extraordinary just doesn't seem logical..

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: WilbyInebriated on July 17, 2009, 08:14:33 AM
Big achievement?   These experiments are neat and all, but what makes this method different from the electrochemical cells or 'earth batteries' experimented with 100 years ago?  How do you know the power isn't electrochemical and really a telluric power source?


Getting 1-2 volts out of the dirt (metals) and believing it's extraordinary just doesn't seem logical..

since the average ordinary guy off the street isn't doing anything of the sort, not calling it extraordinary just doesn't seem logical.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 17, 2009, 09:31:10 AM
@ Newbbie123,
It sure is a big achievemet in my eyes, I haven't managed to light hundreds of LEDs off a earth battery, have you?
If the world just stuck with chemical cells 100 years old, then we would be nowhere.

Big achievement?   These experiments are neat and all, but what makes this method different from the electrochemical cells or 'earth batteries' experimented with 100 years ago?  How do you know the power isn't electrochemical and really a telluric power source?


Getting 1-2 volts out of the dirt (metals) and believing it's extraordinary just doesn't seem logical..
Well, there you are, you are just as confused as most of us here lol, I have had just one regret in life, if only Tesla and the other EE inventors were still alive, I would ask them a whole lot of questions. As they are not, then we only have their photographs, and patients and notes to research to try and understand how they did it.


There is only one answer, jump in the pond with us all and prove it isn't.

Telluric in nature, well before anyone can do this, they have to understand what telluric is, what it consists of, how it behaves, there is a whole lot more about it, more than I know right at this point in time, but newbie, you have the stars, so, go on and show us.
If I don't know, I will ask. So I am putting my hand up right now, and asking.

We need the right "tools" to do it, and so we will make them in all shapes and forms.
The next tool is about ready, just a little tuning..................

jim

The below photo is the current EB scope shot for today at 5pm 17th July in Queensland Australia
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: stringguy on July 17, 2009, 01:30:28 PM
@all,
just want to say thanks to all for the excellent work you are doing.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 17, 2009, 03:02:46 PM
@all

It is true that an earth battery is nothing new. With that being said what I find odd is the fact that they are not in wide spread use. Even if this a pure Voltaic effect it has some serious potential.

I can see someone running a home from nothing but earth battery's. Now true it might take a few 100 earth battery's to run a home but still once the work is done it should last for 20 years with some maintenance.

I plan to go to lowes and buy 12 earth battery's connect them in series and run a JT. Once that is done I can change store bought battery's. And then I can use those battery's to run a small inverter.

So you see if i simply had 350 watts of free earth power running at its max efficiency. i could run my Laptop 65watts my tv 150 watts and lamp 75 watts all from the earth.

Plus run my custom JT circuits for lighting all over the house. I only need 12 volts and 300 mAs to make that all happen :)

So 24 pieces of 8 foot long metal if I am correct should give me that much power.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: newbie123 on July 17, 2009, 04:20:39 PM
@all

It is true that an earth battery is nothing new. With that being said what I find odd is the fact that they are not in wide spread use. Even if this a pure Voltaic effect it has some serious potential.

I can see someone running a home from nothing but earth battery's. Now true it might take a few 100 earth battery's to run a home but still once the work is done it should last for 20 years with some maintenance.

How long have you guys had Earth batteries run for,  I figured they wouldn't run (stable) longer than a few weeks...   20 years would be awesome.


Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 17, 2009, 04:32:01 PM
How long have you guys had Earth batteries run for,  I figured they wouldn't run (stable) longer than a few weeks...   20 years would be awesome.

That is what I am testing. It seems to me that with right metals they would run for longer then 20 years. I have pulled up old copper pipe that has been underground for 10 plus years and it looked to be in really good shape.

The same with galvanized fence posts. So I am going to buy some copper pluming pipe and some galvanized pipe hammer them 3 feet apart 8 foot down in rows of 6. One thing that I am curious to see is how the amount of rain effects them. More voltage I am thinking. I also think the deeper the better.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: newbie123 on July 17, 2009, 05:14:13 PM
That is what I am testing. It seems to me that with right metals they would run for longer then 20 years. I have pulled up old copper pipe that has been underground for 10 plus years and it looked to be in really good shape.

The copper holding up isn't really the problem, it's more the minerals/ions in the ground surrounding the electrodes being depleted...  But the electrochemical effects on the electrodes will be seen over time as well.

Pirate,  how long have you had your earth battery running for?

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 17, 2009, 05:33:07 PM


I plan to go to lowes and buy 12 earth battery's connect them in series and run a JT.
Hey Altrez,
I hope I catch you before you go out to buy all that stuff.

You cannot connect them in series.
I don't care what that long article says. You can't do it.

The earth seems to be a kind of  pulsing random current. It is not DC or AC, but RC. You can connect the leads in a parallel way but not a series way. Unless you have acreage, you cannot do the idea you described. Maybe you have acreage, and I should be quiet...

@newbie123
Localjoe started an EB thread about 2 years ago. Bill's probes still seem to be working. My probes are also still working. I have a Stubblefiels induction coil generator in the ground which I never took out and it is still fine.

If you want an explanation for the reason the metals are OK, here is mine.
The metal ions are replaced by microbial action in the soil.
The microbes surround the metal stakes and use the ion exchange for their own purposes, but that action replenishes any ions missing. I believe this is the reason the EB works better only moist. If there is too much water the EB becomes a galvanic battery and the potential goes down.

Just my thoughts.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: newbie123 on July 17, 2009, 06:03:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eztcSWZpfJg

Jeanna,   was power being consumed on a regular basis in those setups? 

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on July 17, 2009, 06:25:16 PM
Quote
The earth seems to be a kind of  pulsing random current. It is not DC or AC
Im thinking mainly dc. The flow may slowly build charge through the earth then release. There may even be overlapping charges. If there is bemf then you might pick up an ac type waveform.

If you parallel,the amps should increase and the voltage will stay the same.
 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 17, 2009, 08:12:04 PM
Hey Altrez,
I hope I catch you before you go out to buy all that stuff.

You cannot connect them in series.
I don't care what that long article says. You can't do it.

The earth seems to be a kind of  pulsing random current. It is not DC or AC, but RC. You can connect the leads in a parallel way but not a series way. Unless you have acreage, you cannot do the idea you described. Maybe you have acreage, and I should be quiet...

Just my thoughts.

thank you,

jeanna

Humm I can test that with 6 nails and 6 peaces of copper. How much voltage should I get with 1 rod copper and 1 rod galvanized steel? Right now its .970 is that the best it can get? Or is over 1 volt possible?
How much current are you seeing on yours?

Thanks!

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 18, 2009, 12:21:25 AM
...Or is over 1 volt possible?
How much current are you seeing on yours?

Thanks!

-Altrez


0.9v last night
0.6v this morning.
1.01v last week

but I do not live in a city. I have close neighbors and there is a street but the lines are buried so they come in some kind of pipe I assume.
I am sure the ground from my power use is less than most and my neighbor's which would be as high as most, is far enough away to not add very much.
What I am saying is if the grid went down my EB would probably stay the same.

But whatever you get from zinc nails and copper pipe will reflect what you will get from other metal combos.
Farther apart will probably help.
On the magnetic line will probably help.
I don't understand the complication of what the true north vs magnetic north is. the compass shows magnetic north whatever it is.
I did find a significant difference last year when I moved things a little bit. North east was best for a while, but then that stopped being true.
I think the firestarter helps. I just found mine but haven't replaced the nails.
BTW I think those dipped nails are zinc and other metals including magnesium. They are a better south than straight zinc.
Hmm, I remember a lot, but there is more.
It is ALL there on that EB thread started by localjoe and now called stubblefield for an unexplainable reason. There are many mmany resources on that thread. Some pretty good battery jokes too!  ;)

@iotayodi,
If you think about what DC means.
It means directional current and the direction is one way.
In Tesla's vocabulary it meant steady current.

The earth currents are neither.

Not only that you can apply as much theory as you like we did a lot of basic research 2 years ago, you simply will not get a series connection out of it.
Every time a noob came to the thread, they thought , as Altrez just did, that they could just hook up a series connection and...

Not one of us actually did it.
We ALL wondered at the guy who wrote that big pdf about how it was done with nails inside pipes etc....

... but first I will send a pic from this morning. The great big wave was there again.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 18, 2009, 12:25:15 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eztcSWZpfJg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eztcSWZpfJg)

Jeanna,   was power being consumed on a regular basis in those setups?

That video is not an earth battery...just galvanic there.  No telluric currents and no ac/dc/pulsed dc spikes from the earth.  If he just used water, he would get better output....for a while.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 18, 2009, 12:27:12 AM
The copper holding up isn't really the problem, it's more the minerals/ions in the ground surrounding the electrodes being depleted...  But the electrochemical effects on the electrodes will be seen over time as well.

Pirate,  how long have you had your earth battery running for?


I guess it has been 2 years so far.  I redid the set-up in the spring by getting a more precise alignment (which is very critical for max. output) and a larger block of magnesium and when I dug the stuff up, everything looked new.
These are best aligned with the north/south meridian and NOT magnetic north. 
Polar north in other words) And the angle from the bottom of your electrodes should match the magnetic dip angle for your area as close as you can get it.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 18, 2009, 12:38:10 AM
Humm I can test that with 6 nails and 6 peaces of copper. How much voltage should I get with 1 rod copper and 1 rod galvanized steel? Right now its .970 is that the best it can get? Or is over 1 volt possible?
How much current are you seeing on yours?

Thanks!

-Altrez

My best numbers are 2.2 volts and my highest mA reading was 450. (That one I used the Stubblefield coil)  I can fill a 3 volt maxcap (650 Farad) pretty fast though and this is, I believe, due to those spikes we see on the scopes.

This was one of my best arguments back in the early days against the galvanic/chemical battery folks.  A galvanic battery only puts out 1.5 volts.  does not matter if it is an AA AAA or C or D cell battery or a car battery. (car batteries only put out 1.5 volts per cell and are hooked in series to get 12 volts)
There is something else going on here and I do not claim to know what it is.

In seeing what has been done by the Russian Kapandze, which is way over my head, I think the more we understand about what is happening, the better chance we have of utilizing it.

@ All:

Remember, Nathan Stubblefield ran the telephone system of Murry, KY. on earth batteries, and heated his house and lit his farm using them...all in the late 1800's.  No grid anywhere near him in the state at that time which would eliminate the leakage theory.  He was friends with Nikola Tesla.  Tesla's work plays an integral part in the Kapandze experiments yeilding 5 kW by pulsing the earth currents.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 18, 2009, 12:52:57 AM
Quote from Jeanna: "I don't understand the complication of what the true north vs magnetic north is. the compass shows magnetic north whatever it is."


This is simple really, once you picture it.  The earth's magnetic north pole is nowhere near the actual north pole, it is located somewhere in central Canada somewhere and it moves around...quite a bit actually.  Now, the ONLY time a compass will point to true polar north is if you happened to be lined up with yourself to the south and the magnetic north pole located between you and the polar north pole.  Anywhere along that line north and south, the compass will point true north.  Anywhere else on the planet, it will be wrong and sometimes waaaay wrong.

Here in KY we have about 3 degrees difference, not too much really.  Now if you were in Japan or somewhere like that, it could be about 45 degrees off.  And, get this, if you were in northern Canada, it could be 180 degrees off.  Big error there.

I can post that link again if it would help so folks can calculate the deviation and it also gives the magnetic dip angle for a given location.  That really helped my output and, it was based on research done on telluric currents by....you guessed it, the Russians.  Their work showed these current were best intercepted along the north south alignment because of their flow which has nothing to do with magnetic north but, according to them, they flow (I think I remember this right) from the south pole to the the north pole.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on July 18, 2009, 01:52:14 AM
Quote
If you think about what DC means.
It means directional current and the direction is one way.
In Tesla's vocabulary it meant steady current.
The earth currents are neither.
Being an electrician I know what it means. The key is still current and the earths current is still electrical in nature. It is steady,never completely subsides, regardless of the time factor or fluctuations. When the Anode should be placed on the northern meridian (North America anyway) I myself consider that highly directional. Telluric currents consist of both natural electric currents flowing within the entire earth. Plus man made electric currents. Also the presumed geo currents which is responsible for the permanent geomagnetic field may come into play.
You have a constant varying electromagnetic induction crossing the earths permanent magnetic field,including moving water,which produces their own magnetic fields which adds to the geomagnetic field. It also seems to produce a feedback on the ionosphere current system but that was proven to be negligible by Malin in 1970.
 A moving electrical current will produce a magnetic field and vice versus.
What I see is that the whole earth is crisscrossed with both of them, and possibly creating scalar like waves in the process and maintaining an equilibrium of sorts. Just a guess on my part. I think someone here has stated this also.
 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 18, 2009, 01:56:22 AM
So Bill,
You made a 3 degree shift and it made a big difference?
Mine is like 18 degrees.
So, if I am 48 degrees north, do I dig the carbon down so it is 48 degrees from the magnesium into the ground? Or do I dig the magnesium at the south end?

This must have to do with the galactic center or the plane of the solar system, or something really basic like that.

Your explanation is good. I just don't see why it would work the way it is described with the tilt the way it is. If it is lined up with magnetic north then at least it is in accord with the magnetic element, but the spin north...

So everyone take note... Do not ask me. I am not the person to ask about this!  ;D

Thanks for the explanation, Bill

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 18, 2009, 02:04:53 AM
Being an electrician I know what it means. The key is still current and the earths current is still electrical in nature.


 A moving electrical current will produce a magnetic field and vice versus.
What I see is that the whole earth is crisscrossed with both of them, and possibly creating scalar like waves in the process and maintaining an equilibrium of sorts. Just a guess on my part. I think someone here has stated this also.

I think you just described AC or RC just what I meant.

Yes, it is certainly complicated like that whereas DC is very simplistic unidirectional.

Maybe if you were to stick a few probes in the earth you would get the feeling of what it is  we are talking about. it is an interesting thing to do.

Unless you are in an apartment building with blacktop all around you, it is also an easy thing to do... not to mention fun.

mostly fun.

Then do you have a scope? Could you add your scopeshots to ours?

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on July 18, 2009, 04:08:34 AM
Quote
Maybe if you were to stick a few probes
in the earth you would get the feeling of what it is
Already have. I live on a ranch.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 18, 2009, 04:38:14 AM
So Bill,
You made a 3 degree shift and it made a big difference?
Mine is like 18 degrees.
So, if I am 48 degrees north, do I dig the carbon down so it is 48 degrees from the magnesium into the ground? Or do I dig the magnesium at the south end?

This must have to do with the galactic center or the plane of the solar system, or something really basic like that.

Your explanation is good. I just don't see why it would work the way it is described with the tilt the way it is. If it is lined up with magnetic north then at least it is in accord with the magnetic element, but the spin north...

So everyone take note... Do not ask me. I am not the person to ask about this!  ;D

Thanks for the explanation, Bill

jeanna

Jeanna:

From what I have read and done, the north (carbon) should be the deepest and the dip angle for your area (I think mine is like 55 degrees here) should be between the bottom of your carbon to the bottom of the south electrode.  This, of course, changes with the distance between the electrodes.  So, if you move them further apart, then the carbon, or north electrode has to go deeper.

Well, actually I think my deviation is a little more than 3 degrees but I looked it up when I moved my set-up further apart and got the new magnesium large block.  Turns out, I adjusted more than the 5 degrees as my original set-up was off the north/south meridian by another 10 degrees or so due to an initial error on my part.  So, it was a pretty good adjustment and yes it has helped.

when I can, I will post some more scope shots.  Yours looked really good again.  Funny how they change.  I remember Jim trying to describe this to us all a long while back but we didn't get it, or at least I didn't.  Very hard to describe.

Does your scope show little spikes flashing across the screen as vertical lines as seen in my video?  I checked my scope and when I set it up, there was no interference and after my scope shots were taken, I stuck a JT circuit on it and those spikes were gone.  So, it did not seem to be electrical noise from my fridge or something on the same circuit.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 18, 2009, 05:06:31 AM
@Jeanna

if you dont know the dip angle in your area you can make a make-shift  "compass" with a needle and string.

first place the needle so it rotates horizontally to find the 'magnetic north' from where you are.

then turn it so it rotates vertically to find the 'dip angle'

it should be fairly consistent with depth up to about 40ft deep or so. ( most people dont go down quite that far.....)

occasionally i have come across areas with a magnetic anomoly, where the dip angle varies greatly within a short distance, this is usually near 'hot spots' where the magma is closer to the surface.
such as throughought california or in the desert.

but for the most part, if you use the 'compass' in the spot where you are making your battery you should be good to go.


@ Jim

when i first was taught about the EB in college, we used 2 pieces of copper.  it was not until 10 yrs later when someone showed me that 2 different metals can increase the voltage. i believe this is due to an ectrochemical reaction between the metals when there is a voltage potential already present.  This seems to be in line with the electrochemical series of metals, though i have not tested every existing metal and possible soil compositions.

voltage also increases with size and depth.

current on the other hand, i have not had much success with at all. if i space them far enough apart (or in seperate cans) they can be run in parallel, but with very tiny incremental results (not the current doubling one would expect). in series the voltage will double as expected.

in college we had a 20v setup with about 3 dozen dirtfilled cans on a tabletop.  (again using copper on both electrodes)
there was very little curent though.

i'll have to take a good look at this "joule thief" thing.  i scanned the threads briefly a while back but was confused by the issue, and decided to leave that one alone.. I  have no clue how they are even constructed...
  If something like that can drive the current of an EB to usable levels, then i have a list of 3,000 other places such a device could be utilized.... i.e. anywhere there is a voltage potential...

BTW, magnesium and copper works a lot better than copper and steel. ( at least until it oxidizes and has to be replaced)

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 18, 2009, 05:55:08 AM
@iotayodi,
Good to hear this.
Then, I hope  we can look forward to some scopeshots?

@Bill,
Yaknow, I thought I saw something that may have been a spike like the ones you had last night.
No storm here, though.

The spikes were very fast just like the ones of yours. I couldn't take a pic.
I made a movie which I have tried to make into a small enough thing for upload, just to see if I could.
I can't add the contrast on the movie that I can add on the pics so it is really dim and fuzzy.
It is probably more annoying than helpful.
Sorry. But I did see these thin spikes today.

In fact today was extremely active.
I had good pix at about 8 or 9 resolution levels. Usually there are 3-5 good resolution levels.

@Sm0ky2
This is a good suggestion. I have a few compasses. I surely can find one that will give me a dip angle.
I even have a pond I am starting to make.
I can try the depth in the side of that before it gets filled with winter rains. It is dry now.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 18, 2009, 06:38:54 AM
@all

So you see if i simply had 350 watts of free earth power running at its max efficiency. i could run my Laptop 65watts my tv 150 watts and lamp 75 watts all from the earth.

Plus run my custom JT circuits for lighting all over the house. I only need 12 volts and 300 mAs to make that all happen :)


-Altrez

Altrez,

let me know when you can run all of those things with 36 milliwatts.  i'll have a nobel prize lined up for ya...
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 18, 2009, 06:58:53 AM
@Stringguy
Thankyou string,    nice to have you along with us. 
@all,
just want to say thanks to all for the excellent work you are doing.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 18, 2009, 07:04:16 AM
Jeanna:

I know you have seen this before but here it is again in case it helps other folks:

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/IGRFWMM.jsp

This will compute the dip angle and deviation for your area.  Very easy to use.


@Smokey:

The best materials I have found is carbon (north) and magnesium (south).  But your report of the college experiments reflects what we have learned on our earth battery topics research.  When folks used to say that this was only galvanic action between two dissimilar metals, I would reply that I originally used two copper pipes cut from the same pipe and got both voltage and mA's when aligned properly so, to me anyway, this ruled that out.  There is much to be learned here and you can get amps...many of them.  I did not know this when I started the Kapandze topic but, evidently, there are several others that have replicated his work.  And, hopefully soon, some from Overunity.com will do so.  I would try but, I am honest in sayng the electrical stuff employed is over my head at the moment.  I have learned a lot and hopefully will learn more and then, we shall see.

Please feel free to jump in here and make a small EB and if you have access to a scope, post your findings.  As far as the joule thief goes, I can help you with the basic design but Jeanna is the one to go to for the advanced stuff being experimented on over there. (she is way ahead of me)  The basic ones are simple and easy to do.  I have converted 2 flashlights using these circuits and I can light more leds with less batteries than the original design can.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 18, 2009, 07:26:54 AM
@SmOky,

This is very good information you have posted below.
It is something we could file away in somewhere labled Tools to use with a earth battery.

@Jeanna

if you dont know the dip angle in your area you can make a make-shift  "compass" with a needle and string.

first place the needle so it rotates horizontally to find the 'magnetic north' from where you are.

then turn it so it rotates vertically to find the 'dip angle'

it should be fairly consistent with depth up to about 40ft deep or so. ( most people dont go down quite that far.....)

occasionally i have come across areas with a magnetic anomoly, where the dip angle varies greatly within a short distance, this is usually near 'hot spots' where the magma is closer to the surface.
such as throughought california or in the desert.

but for the most part, if you use the 'compass' in the spot where you are making your battery you should be good to go.


@ Jim

when i first was taught about the EB in college, we used 2 pieces of copper.  it was not until 10 yrs later when someone showed me that 2 different metals can increase the voltage. i believe this is due to an ectrochemical reaction between the metals when there is a voltage potential already present.  This seems to be in line with the electrochemical series of metals, though i have not tested every existing metal and possible soil compositions.

voltage also increases with size and depth.

current on the other hand, i have not had much success with at all. if i space them far enough apart (or in seperate cans) they can be run in parallel, but with very tiny incremental results (not the current doubling one would expect). in series the voltage will double as expected.

in college we had a 20v setup with about 3 dozen dirtfilled cans on a tabletop.  (again using copper on both electrodes)
there was very little curent though.

i'll have to take a good look at this "joule thief" thing.  i scanned the threads briefly a while back but was confused by the issue, and decided to leave that one alone.. I  have no clue how they are even constructed...
  If something like that can drive the current of an EB to usable levels, then i have a list of 3,000 other places such a device could be utilized.... i.e. anywhere there is a voltage potential...

BTW, magnesium and copper works a lot better than copper and steel. ( at least until it oxidizes and has to be replaced)
Ha ha, the Joule thief topic is fairly full, with a lot of information, lol, If you need assestance finding exact info, try asking Jeanna, she is the best of remembering where it "might" be.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 18, 2009, 07:39:49 AM
@all,

I'm having a little trouble here in the screen to make posts, where you write the words into, I have noticed this back at the house first, then here at another location in another town, on another computer.

When I get to the bottom of the screen, the words will not scroll up so you can see the line you are typing on, rather it bounces around a bit, I had difficulty in my above post, the last bottom lines I did not being able to see them.

Has anyone else noticed this hapenning, I thought it was my PC back home playing up, but it is hapenning here in a completly different location, on a completly different PC, one has Dialup, the other has Broadband.

Problem is the same,m so its either in Aussie, or does everyone have it.

I also have probs getting a linkup to OU, I see Stefan has done a maintenance thing tooo.

jim 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 18, 2009, 07:54:21 AM
Jim:

No problems here like you describe.  Stefan did do a back-up earlier today, I guess about 6 hours ago and I could not get on but, as of now, no problems on my end here.

Keep up your great work my friend.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 18, 2009, 08:11:32 AM
@all,

I'm having a little trouble here in the screen to make posts,
Has anyone else noticed this hapenning,
...everyone have it.

...

jim
I am not having the same problem that you are describing, but for several days now, I have had to push a button 2 times.
The first time I get to a screen that tells me the connection was not made, along with an invitation to try again.
I do and it does; but since you are asking, I am now also wondering if it is not the site.
This thing I just described only happens here on ou.
It never happens anywhere else I go, just here.

nite,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 18, 2009, 09:36:46 AM
@Bill and Jeanna,

Thanks to both of you for this feedback with the question on the OU access/usage prob.

I got back home just now, been in town all day on the (broadband setup), back on dialup now.  ::)

I think it must be the OU site, just now I had to re-access the OU site as a popup said the site dropped out while trying to access it the first time, no doubt Stefan will be onto it soon enough.

I downloaded and printed that PDF about a earth battery which gives out 12v, havent read it yet, something to do tonight before the Tour Le France on SBS TV.

Ohhh yes, I saw Jesus has managed to get the "doova" idea I had working with "spirit" power, now ,,,, I have my bedini setup very similar, but Jesus it seems has managed to improve it, if you read this Jesus, well done indeed.
I must go and check the JT thread soon as I post this off.
 
Thanks guys, I'll see you.

hooroo
jim

 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Doug1 on July 18, 2009, 12:37:05 PM
 Could the EB be functioning like a tube amplifier in some crude way? Solar wind<planet-eb as a pick up plate?
  If so maybe early tube methodology could improve performance.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 18, 2009, 05:26:30 PM
Altrez,

let me know when you can run all of those things with 36 milliwatts.  i'll have a nobel prize lined up for ya...

I do not believe I said I could? I said if I could figure out a way to generate 350 watts from the earth.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 18, 2009, 07:40:22 PM
I do not believe I said I could? I said if I could figure out a way to generate 350 watts from the earth.

-Altrez
So Altrez,

Howz the scope coming?
Did you get it to show you a wave on your EB yet?

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on July 18, 2009, 08:33:14 PM
@Pirate
When you take your waveforms is your eb connected with anything else?
The strange waveform is why I ask.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: greginthewoods on July 18, 2009, 09:40:08 PM
Thanks to Electricme and Pirate for an OU forum thread that discusses practical Earthbatteries (actually earth cells). There is a lot of misunderstanding, false information, withheld information, and potential improvement.

I see three categories of sticking electrodes into the earth. I see differing opinions about materials, placement, and mass based upon poorly performed empirical performance. I have a lot of datalogged files, graphs, and the capability to replicate and datalog. Let’s work together and resolve this.

I'm getting caught up in this new thread and will post later this week. I hope we can work together to resolve the inconsistencies.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 19, 2009, 01:12:53 AM
@Pirate
When you take your waveforms is your eb connected with anything else?
The strange waveform is why I ask.

No, nothing else at all.  Just directly from the EB electrodes via a 20 ft. extension cord and my probes go into the other end of the cord in the house.  (this way I could leave the scope indoors) No JT or supercaps....nothing else.  If you could help shed some light on these waveforms, it would be great.  Thanks.


@ Greg:

Welcome and I am glad you can join us here.  I am sure your input will be very helpful.  Have you had a look at the Kapandze topic yet?  I hope our research and experiments here will help make it possible to replicate his device.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 19, 2009, 04:09:14 AM
@altrez,

@all

It is true that an earth battery is nothing new. With that being said what I find odd is the fact that they are not in wide spread use. Even if this a pure Voltaic effect it has some serious potential.

I can see someone running a home from nothing but earth battery's. Now true it might take a few 100 earth battery's to run a home but still once the work is done it should last for 20 years with some maintenance.

I plan to go to lowes and buy 12 earth battery's connect them in series and run a JT. Once that is done I can change store bought battery's. And then I can use those battery's to run a small inverter.

So you see if i simply had 350 watts of free earth power running at its max efficiency. i could run my Laptop 65watts my tv 150 watts and lamp 75 watts all from the earth.

Plus run my custom JT circuits for lighting all over the house. I only need 12 volts and 300 mAs to make that all happen :)

So 24 pieces of 8 foot long metal if I am correct should give me that much power.

-Altrez

I think I know what you are about with your EB idea.
I came across a web site and downloaded and printed some extremely interresting information, how to make the Earth Battery and a Capacitor plate battery.
I will do another search for it shortly and post the http address, it made seance to me, its almost a back to front EB, electrodes wise, but it seems to be able to put out voltage and current.
It needs more investigation in my humble opinion, but if it works as is stated, then this might be the one.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 19, 2009, 04:12:09 AM
@IotaYodi

Im thinking mainly dc. The flow may slowly build charge through the earth then release. There may even be overlapping charges. If there is bemf then you might pick up an ac type waveform.

If you parallel,the amps should increase and the voltage will stay the same.

This is right, 100%
jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 19, 2009, 11:36:22 AM
@ GregInTheWoods,

Welcome Greg, I know you will be a very valuable member here, those who know you respect your opinion highly and we look forward to your input.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 19, 2009, 12:02:42 PM
@All
I just came across this web site on Tesla, a treasure trove of his work and information.

   http://www.tesla.hu/tesla/tesla.htm

I hadn't seen this site before, looks very interresting

**************************
OK what I'm going to post may trigger a memory with some readers, of a post I made 2-3months ago on the JT forum, I talking about my earth battery lightning a LED, I was very very excited about that, and somehow I did it, but don't quite know how as it was dark when I made the video.
It seems I had bumped the cliped together circuit and I had not been able to replicate my own LED being lit.
So tonight I'm posting a completly "NEW" situation here, I don't want any egg over my face, embarrassment does slow one down some.
I have checked, double checked and tripple checked this, it seems to be working of earth energy directly without any interference from any other source that I know of up to tonight.
 

I have just been able to very very dimly light a white LED off my EB.

This is the Round Earth Battery, I made a couple of months ago, showing all the steps I had done by photos I posted in the JT topic of Bills.

Before Bridge diode voltage was around .6v

I made a bridge diode, using 1N4007 single diodes, I have about 1.9volts, hmmmm.
I atatched the LED, it came on very very very low.
 
Then I accidentally touched the cathode, and the diode dimly brightened a little, still holding the cathode, I stood up, it brightened a little more.
So somehow I became an aerial for "air" energy, which is interracting with the EB.

Next I got about 5 meters of copper wire, and strung it around the corner, now the LED stays dimly lit without my finger on it. Now what will occur if I throw it up on top of the house roof, ha ha.

I took a series of photos of the scope before and after, there appears to be no noticeable difference to the waveforms.
If you look very close, right at the top of the wave, there is a very sharp peek, then right at the bottom, there is an opposite sharp peek.
This has been unchanged for 2 days now.

jim

1131 = DMM reading before LED lights 1.905v dc
1133 = DMM reading after LED lights 1.881v dc

1128 = current EB waveform today 19/07/2009     Queensland Australia
1129 = closeup of current waveform, the broad green wave is a heat related fault with the cro, the old B&W 511. It OK when cold.


Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 19, 2009, 02:40:58 PM
@altrez,

I think I know what you are about with your EB idea.
I came across a web site and downloaded and printed some extremely interresting information, how to make the Earth Battery and a Capacitor plate battery.
I will do another search for it shortly and post the http address, it made seance to me, its almost a back to front EB, electrodes wise, but it seems to be able to put out voltage and current.
It needs more investigation in my humble opinion, but if it works as is stated, then this might be the one.

jim

Hey Jim :)

I think you know exactly what I am trying to do. And I am sure it can be done! Right now I am getting around .970 on my earth battery. I got some pictures of my scope to upload today. It still shows next to no wave form. However I did capture some juice in a small cap :) it was 1.4 volts in a small cap.

This tells me that the EB is in fact putting out real energy. I know everyone on here has already  seen that. But I needed to see it for my self ;)

an unlimited supply of power in the 1-2volt range can produce some real power.

On and by the way I tested running a 350 watt inverter from a dedicated 1 v power supply and I got it to work. this is what I did:

1. Take 1.2 v power supply with  300 mA current
2. Increase voltage to 12v with JT
3. Charge 12 volt 7 amp hour battery "took around 30 hours"
4. Run inverter =)

It works! It wont work in real time yet. I just needed to see it to understand that it was possible. So really all we need is 1-2volts and 300mAs an we could work some magic.

Take Care

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 19, 2009, 02:41:29 PM
@All
I just came across this web site on Tesla, a treasure trove of his work and information.

   http://www.tesla.hu/tesla/tesla.htm

I hadn't seen this site before, looks very interresting

**************************
OK what I'm going to post may trigger a memory with some readers, of a post I made 2-3months ago on the JT forum, I talking about my earth battery lightning a LED, I was very very excited about that, and somehow I did it, but don't quite know how as it was dark when I made the video.
It seems I had bumped the cliped together circuit and I had not been able to replicate my own LED being lit.
So tonight I'm posting a completly "NEW" situation here, I don't want any egg over my face, embarrassment does slow one down some.
I have checked, double checked and tripple checked this, it seems to be working of earth energy directly without any interference from any other source that I know of up to tonight.
 

I have just been able to very very dimly light a white LED off my EB.

This is the Round Earth Battery, I made a couple of months ago, showing all the steps I had done by photos I posted in the JT topic of Bills.

Before Bridge diode voltage was around .6v

I made a bridge diode, using 1N4007 single diodes, I have about 1.9volts, hmmmm.
I atatched the LED, it came on very very very low.
 
Then I accidentally touched the cathode, and the diode dimly brightened a little, still holding the cathode, I stood up, it brightened a little more.
So somehow I became an aerial for "air" energy, which is interracting with the EB.

Next I got about 5 meters of copper wire, and strung it around the corner, now the LED stays dimly lit without my finger on it. Now what will occur if I throw it up on top of the house roof, ha ha.

I took a series of photos of the scope before and after, there appears to be no noticeable difference to the waveforms.
If you look very close, right at the top of the wave, there is a very sharp peek, then right at the bottom, there is an opposite sharp peek.
This has been unchanged for 2 days now.

jim

1131 = DMM reading before LED lights 1.905v dc
1133 = DMM reading after LED lights 1.881v dc

1128 = current EB waveform today 19/07/2009     Queensland Australia
1129 = closeup of current waveform, the broad green wave is a heat related fault with the cro, the old B&W 511. It OK when cold.

Nice work!

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Doug1 on July 19, 2009, 03:09:47 PM
That's Peppi's pages those have been around for a long time. It's not the complete collection but it is one of the largest collections you'll find on the net. I have never seen any single resource for everything tesla has had a hand in and or a patent for in one location. There seems to be one or two more that pop up every so often that are not in the lists. The guy was a work animal not big having a life or friends or family. If he couldn't coil it,make it spark or vibrate it was of no interest to him.
  On the other hand he would have never gotten half that work done if had other interests. I like to imagine he made the ultimate sacrifice for sake of humanity but it is more likely people in general just really pissed him off with the useless babble and self indulgence.
 Babble, the other occupation when work is just to darn much like work.lol
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on July 19, 2009, 04:03:05 PM
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7769.0;attach=36035;image

This could be possibly a scalar wave.
“Scalar waves are produced when two electromagnetic waves of the same frequency are exactly out of phase (opposite to each other) and the amplitudes subtract and cancel or destroy each other. The result is not exactly an annihilation of magnetic fields but a transformation of energy back into a scalar wave. The scalar field has reverted back to a vacuum state of potentiality. Scalar waves can be created by wrapping electrical wires around a figure eight in the shape of a möbius coil. When an electric current flows through the wires in opposite directions, the opposing electromagnetic fields from the two wires cancel each other and create a scalar wave.”
The Nodes shown on the waveform may be where the 2 identical frequency's intersect. From what I see of the pic you do have 2 identical frequency's in opposite phase.
Stubblefield may have condensed or tuned these frequency's which may account for the glowing of the earth.   
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 19, 2009, 05:48:01 PM
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7769.0;attach=36035;image

This could be possibly a scalar wave.
“Scalar waves are produced when two electromagnetic waves of the same frequency are exactly out of phase (opposite to each other) and the amplitudes subtract and cancel or destroy each other. The result is not exactly an annihilation of magnetic fields but a transformation of energy back into a scalar wave. The scalar field has reverted back to a vacuum state of potentiality. Scalar waves can be created by wrapping electrical wires around a figure eight in the shape of a möbius coil. When an electric current flows through the wires in opposite directions, the opposing electromagnetic fields from the two wires cancel each other and create a scalar wave.”
The Nodes shown on the waveform may be where the 2 identical frequency's intersect. From what I see of the pic you do have 2 identical frequency's in opposite phase.
Stubblefield may have condensed or tuned these frequency's which may account for the glowing of the earth.   

Actually, i believe this to be Three (3) waves.
(120-degrees out of phase with each other?)
This is visible during a few seconds of Bills scope video, when he has the divisions set right to see them. Its identicle to a 3-phase motor/generator signal.

[Edit:]  It is my opinion that the focus should be on shifting these 3 waves into phase with one another.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 19, 2009, 05:51:10 PM

You cannot connect them in series.
I don't care what that long article says. You can't do it.

jeanna

Jeanna,

you CAN if you separate them with enough ground inbetween, such that the impedance of the earth is greater than the impedance of your EB circuit.

OR

separate your EBs into dirt-filled cans.

Both of these have been done many many times..
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 19, 2009, 06:16:23 PM
@ Bill and Jeanna

after taking another look at the JT circuits
its not really the construction of the joule-thief that confuses me..

its more the functionality..  what seperates this from any other I/C circuit with a transistor??

i dont understand what exactly it is "supposed to do"?

What i see is a time variance on a DC input, such that its only "on" a % of the time that it would normally be without the JT.  The result is a quick-pulsed DC, which draws less on the battery than a solid input.  what im missing here, is evidence of any "energy gain"... and thus how would such a JT circuit help us in increasing the energy of an earth battery??

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on July 19, 2009, 07:31:44 PM
Quote
It is my opinion that the focus should be on shifting these 3 waves into phase with one another.
How would you do that on one channel?
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: WilbyInebriated on July 19, 2009, 07:47:50 PM
@ Bill and Jeanna

after taking another look at the JT circuits
its not really the construction of the joule-thief that confuses me..

its more the functionality..  what seperates this from any other I/C circuit with a transistor??

i dont understand what exactly it is "supposed to do"?

What i see is a time variance on a DC input, such that its only "on" a % of the time that it would normally be without the JT.  The result is a quick-pulsed DC, which draws less on the battery than a solid input.  what im missing here, is evidence of any "energy gain"... and thus how would such a JT circuit help us in increasing the energy of an earth battery??

you can't run a white led from a 1.5V (or lower) source. that is what the jt is supposed to do.
i don't think there is any 'increase' in energy with a jt, it's a blocking oscillator, it's basically trading amps for volts. i think that's what you were asking?
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 19, 2009, 09:51:59 PM
@ Bill and Jeanna

after taking another look at the JT circuits
its not really the construction of the joule-thief that confuses me..

its more the functionality..  what seperates this from any other I/C circuit with a transistor??

i dont understand what exactly it is "supposed to do"?

What i see is a time variance on a DC input, such that its only "on" a % of the time that it would normally be without the JT.  The result is a quick-pulsed DC, which draws less on the battery than a solid input.  what im missing here, is evidence of any "energy gain"... and thus how would such a JT circuit help us in increasing the energy of an earth battery??

Wilby is right but I think there is more there.  Yes, part of it is that the power is pulsed so fast you can't detect it with your eye so you think the light is on 100% of the time when it is not, which adds greatly to the efficiency of the circuit....but...there is a gain and I have experienced it first hand.  Not OU type gain but, when mated to my EB, which can only light an led with nothing else in the circuit, and a supercap, it can light 400 leds or two 48" tubes.  Now, I realized both of those light can light up with mostly volts but, you need some power as well there is some available.

I agree about the 3-phase with 3 different waves in the EB.  Maybe what is happening in my situation is that the JT sets up a series of pulses which may establish some sort of near resonance with one or more of the phases so we can pump more power out of the EB that we otherwise could.  Maybe my set-up is like the poor, ignorant man's version of what Kapandze is doing but I am not tuned to any perfect resonance of any of the 3 phases.

I am just making a theory here, nothing more.  I have been thinking about this ever since I was able to light up some larger stuff using the JT circuits.  And now, having seen Kapandze's work (He is the Russian 5kW guy) and mine and other's waveforms, I think this might be a possible explanation.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: nueview on July 20, 2009, 01:42:53 AM

@ pirate

there were several things i noticed on the russian vid that told me this is an mmf function unlike the joule thief which is an emf function tesla statend either effect was usable.

the n machine was a tesla invention originally it produces allot or should i say thousands of amps but only produces minimal voltage the video showed very large cables this is an indication of high current not high voltage both the radiator and water pipe contain high negative charge carriers as these flow they gain more by faradays law of magnetic fields.

in contrast the JT uses very small wire to gain if the cross sectional area is small it limits current it does not flow at 12v a 30 guage wire will pass all the voltage but will not pass much current at 0 guage you can move allot of current to the point where battery voltage will drop to nothing yet hunrdeds of amps are flowing.

this is my two cents for those that get it.
Martin
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 20, 2009, 03:12:12 AM
I made a leetle .mov
This should open in quicktime.
It is as close to the wave as I can get.
I will post some other jpegs in a minute. I just want to see if this works.
Now, I had 0.98volts show on the dmm.
The wave was very active this afternoon. The blue sky helps the picture. I cannot modify the contrast on this and keep the size small enough.
Between the markers which is sometimes a whole wave, the time is 0.2uS or a frequency of 2.5MHz.
lets see.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 20, 2009, 03:33:57 AM
Here are a couple more pictures of my EB today... July 19,09.
These are from various distances = resolutions.
Starting with the full wave. This looks like some jim first posted.
Then a little closer then the closest which is 2.5MHz between markers.

EDIT
I am not  exchanging the wholewave pic for one with the markers showing that the large form of the wave is 25KHz. But that is what it is. I just checked and took another pic, but it won't matter.

The name of each pic reflects the amount of time between the markers and the last 2 are correct. The first is too small to get the markers in there, but this larger wave which is not the little ones is 25khz.
I can prove it with a pic, but they would be out of order if I did that.
ok?

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 20, 2009, 05:29:03 AM
...what separates this from any other I/C circuit with a transistor??

i dont understand what exactly it is "supposed to do"?

What i see is a time variance on a DC input, such that its only "on" a % of the time that it would normally be without the JT.  ..
Hi Sm0ky2,
I will add my 2 cents to Bills. We are doing different things with our joule thief circuits, so you can get 2 different views here.

I am never using the joule thief as the patent describes.
I keep forgetting to mention that in my posts, so I apologize for that.

I am only using the secondary to do anything I do.

So, if I am lighting 10 or 18 leds in series or a neon or a fluorescent bulb, it is always and only from the secondary.

I have been trying out different ways to wind both the bifilar primary and the secondary.
I also have been studying using an additional secondary and what that does.
I have been able to turn on leds from 2 different secondaries simultaneously but it took an additional inductor  placed into both secondary circuits to do that.
Now, it is starting to look a lot like some of tesla's circuits.
I am using a transistor instead of a condenser and spark discharge to make the pulses, but the effect is similar.

Got any scope shots for us?  ;)

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 20, 2009, 07:21:24 AM
unfortunately i dont own a scope....

else i'd be playing around with phase modulation right now, as i think this is necessary for the advancement of what we are trying to do in this thread.. it may be possible with an RC-type control circuit, or garagedoor opener kind of thing.... similar in functionality to changing the amplitude of an AM/HAM Radio signal.

most i could do right now, is break out the DMM, but i think theres already plenty of data like that readily available from various locations..

i'm actually holding off on digging holes in my rented yard until we come up with a repeatable process that can take this thing to the next level.


Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 20, 2009, 09:00:27 AM
@ Doug1

Hello Doug, welcome to the EB forum.

That was an interresting 1st post you have there.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 20, 2009, 09:10:12 AM
@ Altrez,
Well,,,, what can I say, filling a cap with earth energy and feeding it via JT to boost it to 12v then run a UPS from it,
I bet you needed a cup of tea to settle the nerves lol. (excitement).

your right though, lets get the EB to run full time and then we will be getting somewhere.

@ALL,
My LED is still on, bairly glowing just as I showed on yesterdays photo.

Now all I have to do is experiment with some copper pipes and zinc nails or bolts, got to buy some bolts at the hardware shop in town this weekend, I'll get some good size ones.

I'll look for some 4" copper tubeing or sheet copper to roll a tube.

jim

@Bill,
all this is going in 1 direction, as I see, back to the beginning, we needed to take this trip from NS forum, to JT forum EB forum, without either of them we wouldnt be where we are today.

Thanks Bill.
 
jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 20, 2009, 09:22:28 AM
Jim:

As you know, I agree 100%!  I said long ago even before I "knew" anything that I believed a lot of the OU topics here are all related and as it turns out....they are.

Without the EB topics i would be nowhere.  Without the JT topic I would still be where I was with the EB 2 years ago, and now with the Kapandze topic and your topic idea here, I would have never known what my EB waveform looked like.

I have shown photos of my EB waveform to a few electronics guys I know over here and they all said they have never seen anything like that before.  One guy even suggested that my used scope was "bad" because he said you can't have a wave that has jagged edges like that.  I told him that this means a lot of my friends must have "bad" scopes as well because their waveforms look exactly like mine do.

Thank you Jim.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 20, 2009, 09:42:01 AM
@Martin,

 
@ pirate

there were several things i noticed on the russian vid that told me this is an mmf function unlike the joule thief which is an emf function tesla statend either effect was usable.

the n machine was a tesla invention originally it produces allot or should i say thousands of amps but only produces minimal voltage the video showed very large cables this is an indication of high current not high voltage both the radiator and water pipe contain high negative charge carriers as these flow they gain more by faradays law of magnetic fields.

in contrast the JT uses very small wire to gain if the cross sectional area is small it limits current it does not flow at 12v a 30 guage wire will pass all the voltage but will not pass much current at 0 guage you can move allot of current to the point where battery voltage will drop to nothing yet hunrdeds of amps are flowing.

this is my two cents for those that get it.
Martin
I got it, as I have been saying all along, pulse a 1000 amps at .001volts into a transformer the primary consisting of 1-2 turns, if the secondary has 1000tuens, then out pops voltage and almost no amperage.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 20, 2009, 10:00:00 AM
@smOky2,
unfortunately i dont own a scope....

else i'd be playing around with phase modulation right now, as i think this is necessary for the advancement of what we are trying to do in this thread.. it may be possible with an RC-type control circuit, or garagedoor opener kind of thing.... similar in functionality to changing the amplitude of an AM/HAM Radio signal.

most i could do right now, is break out the DMM, but i think theres already plenty of data like that readily available from various locations..

i'm actually holding off on digging holes in my rented yard until we come up with a repeatable process that can take this thing to the next level.
Make a flowerbed and hide the EB it in there, put some garden lights up to confuse those who think its a flower bed, mabe a vegie come flower bed.

They will grow well, you will have the best tasting vegies around.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 20, 2009, 10:05:53 AM
@All,
This thread is creating some interrest, there have been 864 hits so far, and we are just in the 12 P.

jim

Almost forgot, well done with the very small .mov file jeanna

Some of those waves are just like mine I see here.
I took a quick look at my scopes just before, the wave form has plateaued out a bit.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 20, 2009, 10:53:58 AM
Jim:

I will try to take some more scope shots, possibly tomorrow.  We have clear sky and very cold temps here so this might eliminate the local lightning effect if indeed that is what those spikes were.

You are correct when you said in the beginning that it is one thing to take a scope shot "right now" with the EB but then, a few minutes, or hours later, it could and probably will be different.

I will try to compile a bunch of them and record the location, times and weather conditions.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on July 20, 2009, 02:28:04 PM
Quote
Maybe what is happening in my situation is that the JT sets up a series of pulses which may establish some sort of near resonance with one or more of the phases so we can pump more power out of the EB that we otherwise could
So are you saying the JT was hooked up when you got this waveform?
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 20, 2009, 02:51:10 PM
@all

Here is my test for this morning. 07/20/2009 6:45 AM Western Kentucky

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 20, 2009, 05:02:13 PM
@Bill,
Regarding waveforms from the EB, this is so right, you can lookaway one moment, then look back and lo and behold, the waveform has altered, some times dramitically.
Several times they just dissapeared and I had to "go fish" em back by using the vertical sweep control.

When you asked me, "Jim, describe it to us", remember,,,, and I couldn't, ha ha ha, It wobbles like crasy, flips and turns like a cut snake, bounces up and down, it has a life of its own dosent it.

@altrez
OK next step is to make a bridge rectifier, BUT DON'T USE 1n4004 diodes.
I discovered just days ago, 1N4004 diodes will not switch fast enough to get the energy properly.
Use 1n4007 or 1N5408 diodes.(3amp 1Kv)
1N4007 are a faster switching diode, so turns on and off faster, this helps the EB energy to be converted to DC.

Then next thing to do is to solder a white LED across the + and - of the bridge.
With a bit of luck, you should see a very slight glow, but only at night time.
If you have a supercap there, remove the LED and hook it up instead, then after a few hours, you should be able to drive a JT or a LED or a tiny electric motor.

@all
My EB is still lightning my white LED, but it is very very dim, I started this yesterday, so I'm going to see how long it will remain lit up.

@jeanna,
When you take the photos of your scope readouts, try and keep the camera parallel to the face of the scope, its difficult at times to do this I know,especially if making a MOV, but the image will become easier to see.
I was amazed to see how fast the waveform was going on your scope, no wonder you had trouble trying to freeze it as you mentioned some P back, you are doing very good work.

@all,
I must be nuts, out of my tree, crasy or something, I want to tackle a ummm, make a verticle Bedini, just imagine 7 0r 8 little bedinis  stacked on top of each other, all rotating on a common shaft. All trigered by a reed switch, which switches a bunch of mosfets.
I found this ballbearing mounted exercise tredmill thrown out, it had already lost its motor to another scavenger "dump picker" (like me) lol, but he left the bearing mounted roller. ;D

I'm off to bed, Im too silly 4 words.

hooroo all
jim
 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 20, 2009, 08:47:13 PM

...

@jeanna,
When you take the photos of your scope readouts, try and keep the camera parallel to the face of the scope, its difficult at times to do this I know,especially if making a MOV, but the image will become easier to see.
I was amazed to see how fast the waveform was going on your scope, no wonder you had trouble trying to freeze it as you mentioned some P back, you are doing very good work.

...
Hi jim,
I make the avi files for myself, but I converted and compressed that one so you all could see the wave waving.
And, it really is fast. Amazing.

It is a dice-roll with the camera on the scope. I sometimes see a beautiful shot through the viewfinder and it turns out to be nothing but glare when it is downloaded to my computer. If I put the camera directly in front you might just see camera and no waves. I can change the contrast on the stills, or for my own viewing, but not yet on the converted video. Maybe there is a way I have not learned yet.

(I am also hoping to get the debian box to do the linux/scope. )

Now, I have one I would like to convert for you that shows the nodes.

EDIT,
Here it is
@IotaYodi this is a good example of the nodes you are talking about.
When I freeze the scope only 1 wave appears, but I do think this is what you are talking about. I don't know anything about scalar waves, but here is the mov file

It opens in quicktime.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 21, 2009, 12:19:37 AM
So are you saying the JT was hooked up when you got this waveform?

No, nothing was hooked up.  Just the EB to the scope.  What I am saying is that after seeing these three waves intertwined, that possibly I accidentally was setting up a near resonance with my JT and super cap circuits as I was getting more power out than I even had before during my experiments using that circuit. 

For the scope shots, nothing in the circuit except the EB and the scope.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 21, 2009, 01:02:16 AM
@all

Here is my data from this afternoon. I still do not see much of anything on the scope. However the volts have went up from this morning.

07/20/2009 5:45 PM Western Kentucky

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 21, 2009, 01:39:53 AM
Hi Altrez,
Are you also restricted by not owning your land?
I think your results might improve if you were to separate the probes more than they are.

But first!
Please go back out before it is too dark and set it up again and push the up button until you are reading Mv. I do not know why they made a cap letter. but these would be millivolts.
I am at the range of 10 Mv/div for this. You get a nice wave until you get the to closest (most to the right) point. Then it smoothes out.

So then, go to the left and the right once you have the waves visible. OK?

Let me know or see, if there is still enough light.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 21, 2009, 02:19:52 AM
Hi Altrez,
Are you also restricted by not owning your land?
I think your results might improve if you were to separate the probes more than they are.

But first!
Please go back out before it is too dark and set it up again and push the up button until you are reading Mv. I do not know why they made a cap letter. but these would be millivolts.
I am at the range of 10 Mv/div for this. You get a nice wave until you get the to closest (most to the right) point. Then it smoothes out.

So then, go to the left and the right once you have the waves visible. OK?

Let me know or see, if there is still enough light.

jeanna

Hey! i own my home thankfully! I am recharging the scope so it will be in the morning. I will move them out. How far should I go. I think we need to set a standard so everyone moves to the same distance for testing. That way it will keep it all the same.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 21, 2009, 02:33:21 AM
Altrez:

The alignment is much more important than the distance but, the distance is important too.  I am at 15 feet on the N/S Meridian with my carbon much deeper than my mag. to try to match my dip angle.  If everything is lined up right, you should be able to get over 1.5 volts which will exceed the galvanic part of it.  Mine runs between 1.95 and 2.25 vdc.

Let me know if you need any help.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 21, 2009, 03:00:11 AM
Hey! i own my home thankfully! I am recharging the scope so it will be in the morning. I will move them out. How far should I go. I think we need to set a standard so everyone moves to the same distance for testing. That way it will keep it all the same.

-Altrez
I am glad you have the flexibility of owning.
I agree with Bill; distance apart is less important.
It just seemed extremely close to be 1 foot apart, so I mentioned it.
I am glad to hear you are recharging. Is that what was wrong?
I just did a movie of much more time, but it is not the whole range, so I will do that again. There were glare problems today. I guess I need an umbrella of some kind. Plain beach umbrella.
I did another one of the closest. It is 2.3MHz today. and it moves around differently.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 21, 2009, 03:01:57 AM
@ Greg,

Have you ever come across any information about a standard distance between probes for Earth Cells?
Altrez has raised a very good point here, we do need a common standard here to follow to begin tests.

I was thinking about having a set range, distance of probes apart, and depth of probes for a start.

I know the deeper one goes the higher the output, but not everyone has probes 10 foot long.

We all can get the usual length zinc coated roofing nail or bolt, then there needs to set a "standard" for the thickness of both electrodes used, because the wider the electrode is, the more area is exposed to collect energy.

So there would have to be a grading scale chart, wouldn't there.

What would your thoughts be on this Greg? and I am also inviting our readers who are reading this, if they know how to do this, please let us know.

In Gregs first post here he mentioned about the name we call the "EB", I noticed no one picked up on this, has anyone given it any thought?
Actually, after sitting here, I forming the opinion, the probes are just another part of a "tuned" device to hook up with the energy.
If we look at an TV antenna, it is tuned for a range of frequencies and null-outs the rest, the same occurs in a radio receiver, they use 1/2 wave, 1/4 wave, even 1/8 wave antennas which is a divided measurement into the full wavelength, hence the usage of the word "dipole"   

I don't want to get any deeper than that cause my math is my weakness, so I will leave that to others.

@All  :D
My LED on my EB or EC is still going, at same brightness, very very dim, but it is still there.

I have 4 geranium diodes, these just might end up as a bridge, just to see how they perform against the 1N4007 I have.


jim
 

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 21, 2009, 03:12:30 AM
Jim:

Great work on your EB and the led!

The problem with a standard as I see it would be that, depending upon where one is located, will determine some of the factors.  I'm no good at trig but I did figure out how to get my distance and depths to match my dip angle.  If you change one factor you have to alter the others, etc.  This will be different for you, Jeanna, me, Greg, etc.  Now Altrez is in my same state, and even on my end of the state so his numbers won't be too far off from mine, really pretty close actually.

Now, if you are thinking about just having folks get two rods, all exactly the same for everyone and stick them in the ground the same depth and distance apart no matter where they are and then look at the waveforms, OK, I see how that could be useful to compare those results.  But if folks are going to attempt to maximize their EB outputs, there will be no standard I am afraid.

I also say that EB are not really EB's at all Jim.  Earth Energy Receivers, or antennas, etc. as you said would be more accurate.  I have just always called them this even though I almost always knew it was wrong.  Maybe we should change that.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 21, 2009, 03:40:12 AM
@all
Here is my EB - EC electrical activity this morning, actually it is just on 11:30am

There are extreamly sharp spikes today, about as sharp as I have ever seen, if you look closely, there is a downward and a upward, what I call a "super Spike", very sharp.

On the movie you can see the movement or oscillation of the activity.

@jeanna,
Thats much better, now we can see the waveform, I thought the others you had taken, the focus was out, but I can see it is indeed sharp and in focus. hmm, I wonder if parallex is what is causing the fuziness of the image.
I will put my thingcap on and come up with a fix for you.
BTW, what is the distance between the camera and the scope glass face? Just approx.

jim   
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 21, 2009, 03:53:39 AM
@All,
I just had a crasy idea, I have a web cam, but it is not setup.

I was thinking it wouldn't take too much to set it up again, and when I am not using the PC, I could just let it send out image of either of the scopes. Skype will not work, it used to freeze frames, loose audio and bomb out and disconnect.

But I do have a slight problem, a bandwidth problem, I have dialup, talk about being stuck back in time in the horse and buggy days, telstra havent updated the exchange to broadband yet.

But I'm willing to try it, just to see if I can get everything setup and working.

What do you all think?

jim
   
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 21, 2009, 04:25:07 AM
OK
I just cut this down to size. The glare is on the edges.
The parts I saved are the parts that are like jims. They are not as spiky but they are spiky.
I stopped at 2 places. You can hear me say 10us and 2us. These are between the markers and have no real meaning on the wave, but tell the tale by comparison.

Jim, I think more than anything we need to get some kind of resolution agreement.
Notice the wide differences in the shapes of this movie and the other one.
288K is this movie.
You can pause for a still look on the places I did not pause the camera.

I love how we can do this. Thanks jim! great idea.

jeanna

edit,
So, for instance, what length of time is between the bottoms of that spikey wave?
I had 25khz yesterday. I think this is more what kind of standard we need.

Oh and the first one for today is ON TOP of the 2 pics on my last post. it says 0 downloads as this one does too. hmm.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 21, 2009, 06:48:31 AM
@Jeanna

The glare is on the edges.
Jim, I think more than anything we need to get some kind of resolution agreement.
I love how we can do this. Thanks jim! great idea.
So, for instance, what length of time is between the bottoms of that spikey wave?

I had 25khz yesterday. I think this is more what kind of standard we need.
Oh and the first one for today is ON TOP of the 2 pics on my last post. it says 0 downloads as this one does too. hmm.

OK bottom one first, I find I'm having trouble between IExplorer and Firefox, in saving files. I find it much easier to save a file in IE than firefox, I get confused easily, but when it says 0 downloads, it means no-one has actually downloaded the mov file, it wont record how many people have actually looked at the file.
I also found over the years, if people aren't aware there is a MOV file there, the green paperclip tends to fade in the background, so it might be overlooked, that's why I usually put TWV icon up, but haven't done this so far in this forum (tight KB mov file allowed).
   
The glare may be the culprit here Jeanna, what happens with Altrez mov's or stills? I think he has the same effect too.
Here is a suggestion, please let me know if it is suitable.

I think both your scopes have the screens back lit, or are illuminated somehow.

Get a big cheese grater, block all the holes on the sides, past some cardboard on each side, got to stop the light glare somehow.
Then gently place the wide end over the scope, then place the camera on the top, this should keep it all lined up and level at the same time.

If there is still a problem, make a cardboard rectangle, the outside the same as the cheese grater.
Next cut a rectangle the same size as the screen (on the scope) into the flat cardboard.
Next tape it on the underside of the cheese grater.

If you don't want to fiddle doing that, get some tin snips and cut a section of the cheese grater, the same size of the whole meter, out of the side of the cheese greater, then you could slide the meter through the side of it, make sure there are no sharp edges.
 

@Bill,
Standard size of probes, dip angles and resolution is defiantly what we need here, and for a permanent setup I think it is essential.

But for a real quick setup just to give an "indication" I see no problems anyone using the old nail and copper strip.
I see we all have given this the thumbs up, what does everyone think about this? before anything is set in concrete.

I will have to look for my scope booklet and read up on it lol, I don't know everything.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on July 21, 2009, 07:13:13 AM
@All,
I just had a crasy idea, I have a web cam, but it is not setup.

I was thinking it wouldn't take too much to set it up again, and when I am not using the PC, I could just let it send out image of either of the scopes. Skype will not work, it used to freeze frames, loose audio and bomb out and disconnect.

But I do have a slight problem, a bandwidth problem, I have dialup, talk about being stuck back in time in the horse and buggy days, telstra havent updated the exchange to broadband yet.

But I'm willing to try it, just to see if I can get everything setup and working.

What do you all think?

jim
 

To electricme, tell me the name of the webcam, brand and model number.

I suggest you do a clean of your operateing systems registry and other junk use www.ccleaner.com .
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 21, 2009, 07:59:00 AM
@lltdaniel1

To electricme, tell me the name of the webcam, brand and model number.

I suggest you do a clean of your operateing systems registry and other junk use www.ccleaner.com .

Hi Dan,
I have a i-rocks web cam Model IR-3230
Here is a photo of it, plus install disk.

In regards to the PC, I have Registry Repair Pro (registered to me), I use ERUNT (saved my bacon about 5 times) to save the registry, and I have TuneUp Utilities 2008, this mob wanted me to buy another copy for 2009 (no updates) so I didnt get 2009.
I got Spotmau, lots of useful tools, I found out they knew it was buggy, and still released it, and I shied away from it, a google search will find some good reasons to stear clear from it.

Yep CCleaner is good, gives you no options (lol) just hacks it clean.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: nueview on July 21, 2009, 08:16:13 AM

@ all
 has anyone checked these against a tide table for your area the morning is best for most people from what everyone is reporting so far but this could be a tide function.
Martin
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 21, 2009, 08:29:27 AM
ive been thinking about this...

about ready to set up my new EB here..

think im going to use a 5-ft piece of stainless pipe, driven down so that just a few inches are sticking up. (south end)

and a large arc-array of sheet copper sections, connected in parallel. (north side)

not sure where this idea came from, an image just kind of popped into my head as i was assessing the spare parts i had lying around.  i'll post my DMM readings once i get it set up.

why does my pipe need to be 5 feet deep??
well,    the inclination here is approx +67 degrees, im in the dead center of the U.S.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 21, 2009, 08:46:03 AM
Smoky:

The North end is supposed to be the deepest, just in case you didn't know.  I am in South Central Kentucky and our numbers are not all that different it seems. I am at +65 degrees 51 minutes here.  Best of luck with it.  I am sure you will have many hours of fun experimenting and seeing what can be done with these.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 21, 2009, 09:34:26 AM
@Martin
A very excellent point here, very good statement.
 
@ all
 has anyone checked these against a tide table for your area the morning is best for most people from what everyone is reporting so far but this could be a tide function.
Martin
I was speaking to both Greg and Bill about this a week ago, and we mentioned in passing the moons position being involved, when you think about it, No moon or Full moon, it's mass dosent change, just it's position relative to the earth.

I have see an electric spark in a glass tube being effected by a magnet on youtube, whichever way the pole was presented (N or S pole), to the side of the spark, the spark moved towards or away from the magnetic field.
(this is where I got the idea to wrap a coil around the glass to harness the aeather)

If you setup a carbon arc light, you can have/see the same effect, arc lights in projectors are deliberatly pushed away from the parabolic mirror for safety resons, (I used to see this as the projectionist at the Huon Theatre in Lae in NG)

Soooo I feel the moon may be able to attract some of the EB energy upwards or downwards relative to the earths surface.
jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 21, 2009, 10:13:58 AM
@all
A snippet of info I just heard the weather report on CH10, it is going to be MINUS 150 degrese on the moon over night and it will be 200 degreese when the sun comes out, its about the 40th annerversary of the Moon Landings.

So congrats to America for the Moon Landing, well done to the folks at NASA, and the folks at Hunneysuckle Creek and Tidbinbilla in Australia. (see The Big Disc film) ;)

I wagged work in Lae, there was NO TV, lol so I audio taped it live on a reel to reel recorder, Shortwave Radio 9PA then went and held a news bullitin in the middle of it, which lasted a half hour, oooooohhh. :(

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 21, 2009, 10:24:33 AM
Moon Landing 1, will it fit
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 21, 2009, 10:30:20 AM
Moon Landing 2 I had only seconds to do this
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on July 21, 2009, 10:40:18 AM
That is the way i like to see it..like the sun which gives it's magnetic energy so to speak in conjuction with the moon and all of the solar system is basicly magneticly aligned.

If you start seeing different volts regarding night time and the moon, you will know why.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 21, 2009, 01:35:53 PM
@all

I think seismic activity has a big roll to play here as well. When plates move we can detect it from around the world. So it must have some sort of effect on the earth energy receivers.

It would be nice to have standers set to collect data. That way we are comparing apples to apples. A galvanized roofing nail cost all of 40 cents and a piece of copper tube is less then 3 bucks at lowes. Anyone can go out put these into the ground and start recording with a DMM.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 21, 2009, 03:48:25 PM
@altrez,
I think you are right here, I get the USGS earth quake reports sent to me automatically emailed just minutes after they occur, but I need a chart logger to see if I can match spikes on the cro, to times of the earthquakes.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Quakes/us2009jiaw.php

If you browse to here, then you need to delve in a bit to let them know to send data your way.

You might get a few per day to twenty or more, just depends on the day.

jim


Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 21, 2009, 07:02:01 PM
Jim,
My scope is not backlit.
I believe Altrez' is also not. This is the reason the blue sky is better, because the color of the pixels is blue and the reflection from them is brighter than the glare from the surface.

The straw hat helped the day I used it, so I may rig up a pyramid with a hole at the top for camera and see if this could help. Otherwise, I think a beach umbrella or tarp kind of thing might work.

Do you mean that you can see a movie without actually downloading it?
I can see the jpegs like that but not any of the movies.
I hope people are interested enough to look.

Thanks,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: nueview on July 21, 2009, 08:54:06 PM

hi all
there are many electrical experiments from newton to farnsforth that demonstrate the electrical nature of gravity and the effect of charge on falling bodies.
from some tests i have done it appears there are many possible frequencies. bodies traveling in space travel a straight line unless acted upon charge negativity or dipole action can alter these greatly the tide is a good example but in order for the planet to go around the sun the tension between these charges will rise and fall and can produce tremendous voltage this cycle takes about 15 seconds for the sun to build and correct our orbit so we actually jiggle as we orbit the sum the moon tends to do a push and pull as it orbits us as well and these actions greatly effect our weather patterns on the earth astrologers are realizing this more and more.
also when plate pressure arises there is a radio shift down the dial this accounts for excess electrons in the area decreasing wavelength this is easily noticed on my alarm clock each morning and has been quite accurate over the years and produces unusual cloud patterns when the epicenter is close as it often is where we live.
i have been told that lightning strikes are more frequent in the afternoon and evening but we do not get many storms of this type here in Alaska so someone else will have to check this out dawn is said to be the least for this occurrence. these strikes occur about every few seconds around the globe so would be low frequency unless they demonstrate a joule thief effect and i do not see why they wouldn't i am not sure what the resonant frequency of nitrogen is but am sure it would be the main vibration on a dipole moment.
water is a great negative carrier and very reactive to voltage stress if you look around at the sky in your area you should find areas were the clouds are vaporizing away and at some distance they should be dark grey these denote energy podes on the earth positive and negative i post this because even the sun has magnetic hot spots and if you can find these you may want to align the for an earth battery so as to denote this flow pattern and see what happens it is just something else to keep in mind it was a stubblefield comment and just stuck in my mind i see then allot here and always at the same geographical location.

Martin
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 21, 2009, 09:49:32 PM
Alaska!
oo Martin, I hope you will be able to add your results to these data.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: nueview on July 21, 2009, 10:23:11 PM

i just may try some of these again but my last post made me realize something so i need to build a special JT way out there in concept and no battery just a ground.

charging batteries is my main interest but will help here if i can.

@ Jesus
you did some very impressive work on your pulse motor and you definitely deserve a round of applause you get it from me, because i was trying to do the same but with an induction motor and you gave me some new ideas am still working on this, more Tesla car type things it seems to be more reality than fiction even if others don't get it.

@ IST
would like to see more of your battery charging circuit and three phase driver circuits it is really good work you are doing.

@ all
this group has some of the best people at the site am proud to have met you all.

Martin
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 22, 2009, 06:04:56 AM
@ Jeanna,

Jim,
My scope is not backlit.
I believe Altrez' is also not.

pyramid with a hole at the top for camera and see if this could help. Otherwise, I think a beach umbrella or tarp kind of thing might work.

Do you mean that you can see a movie without actually downloading it?
I hope people are interested enough to look.

Thanks,

jeanna

Hmmmm, not backlit, that makes it interresting, it seems the glare is the problem. (my adjustable power supply hasn't got backlighting, I must fix this)
If you cover the display blocking all light it defeats the purpose.
Perhaps an opaque material would do.
I used a towel over my head a couple of times but the towel ends got in the way and was annoying.
If you look at the very first drawing pic I took, it has coloured wires on it and a scope with a datalogger, you can see the edge of the towel just sneaking in, bottom right corner.

If you just left click on the Video paperclip, the video will download, and the video player will pop up and play the video.
If you want to save the video to play it later on, right click on the paperclip, you should be able to save where ever you want to on your pc.

The person who is interrested will see the videos and play them, don't worry about not enough people not seeing them, as this thread grows and I think it will by the quality of people on here.

I'm only worried of stretching myself over several forums now, I might have to do the unthinkable and curtail my posting just to keep up, its all very very exciting stuff.

jim





 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 22, 2009, 06:09:36 AM
Smoky:

The North end is supposed to be the deepest, just in case you didn't know.  I am in South Central Kentucky and our numbers are not all that different it seems. I am at +65 degrees 51 minutes here.  Best of luck with it.  I am sure you will have many hours of fun experimenting and seeing what can be done with these.

Bill

Really??  that seems counter-intuitive but i'll have to take your word for it, 100% of my experience with EB's has been in the horizontal plane. (i.e. NOT taking advantage of the magnetic inclination), i assumed by the calculator showing a (+) positive number, that it went "up" to the north..
guess i got it backwards...  Thanks !

[edit:] after giving it more thought, we are in the northern hmisphere, so i suppose the north magnetic pole 'would be' deeper here....
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 22, 2009, 06:33:11 AM
@ Smoky2

Really??  that seems counter-intuitive but i'll have to take your word for it, 100% of my experience with EB's has been in the horizontal plane. (i.e. NOT taking advantage of the magnetic inclination), i assumed by the calculator showing a (+) positive number, that it went "up" to the north..
guess i got it backwards...  Thanks !

[edit:] after giving it more thought, we are in the northern hmisphere, so i suppose the north magnetic pole 'would be' deeper here....

Actually, I'm glad this point was raised between you and Bill, because I beginning to think I made a boo boo with my round disk EC. Is it possible to put a EC in the ground upside down?

I went to here  http://www.4shared.com/file92366887/ad3b1eb6/Free_Energy_-_Free-electricity_From_The_Earth.html and on page 10 it shows a setup, the copper is facing downwards.

So, hmmmm, its thinking time again for me, if I can include some of these ideas into my own setup here, would I get more out? we will seeeeeee.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 22, 2009, 06:35:38 AM
Really??  that seems counter-intuitive but i'll have to take your word for it, 100% of my experience with EB's has been in the horizontal plane. (i.e. NOT taking advantage of the magnetic inclination), i assumed by the calculator showing a (+) positive number, that it went "up" to the north..
guess i got it backwards...  Thanks !

[edit:] after giving it more thought, we are in the northern hmisphere, so i suppose the north magnetic pole 'would be' deeper here....

Smoky:

You raise an interesting point here.  I never gave much thought to hemispheres.  Perhaps Jim down under can shed some light on this.  I just know from experience that what I have read works here...in KY and I can make no assumptions on how it may or may not work in the other hemisphere.

The work I studied was done by the Russians, and Stubblefield and...guess what? Northern hemisphere.

This is why we as a group from all over the world can try different things and, then we can go with what works.  I don't ever want to say that I know the "best" or "only" way to do this....far from it.  I just dislike those few comments I get on youtube where some say they "tried" it and only got .0025 volts.  One fellow even accused me of hiding a battery off camera.  Oh well.

Excellent point that we should possibly get some feedback to and see if it does matter where on this planet one is.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: WilbyInebriated on July 22, 2009, 10:49:21 AM
I just dislike those few comments I get on youtube where some say they "tried" it and only got .0025 volts.  One fellow even accused me of hiding a battery off camera.

"mediocrity is self-inflicted. genius is self-bestowed." - walter russell
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: nightshade on July 22, 2009, 02:29:48 PM
Hi all

been following this discussion lots of really good info here  my earth battery

this way dropped in voltage 0.85 and current 1500ma for about two months

and it has just started to put out its old voltage 0.92

and current again 2300 ma I have not setup my batt this way with

declination in mind just bury my plates about two meters in the ground and

cross my fingers not very scientific but seems to work also the jule thief is

working again what amazes me is when I do my testing wires on tongue i

can taste that current so im going to add a fourth peer of plates to get

more juice trying for 1 amp i hope here in little old kiwi land

                                    regards shane

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 22, 2009, 03:29:43 PM
@nightshade

That's cool! so are you getting micro amps now? As in your current output is 0.0023 Amps?

@All

So has anyone got close to 1 AMP output yet? And how is everyone testing output?

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 22, 2009, 03:55:37 PM
@Nightshade,

Giday kiwi, you are just a jump across the pond to me, lol, good to see you here.

Hi all

been following this discussion lots of really good info here  my earth battery

this way dropped in voltage 0.85 and current 1500ma for about two months

and it has just started to put out its old voltage 0.92

and current again 2300 ma I have not setup my batt this way with

declination in mind just bury my plates about two meters in the ground and

cross my fingers not very scientific but seems to work also the joule thief is

working again what amazes me is when I do my testing wires on tongue i

can taste that current so I'm going to add a fourth peer of plates to get

more juice trying for 1 amp i hope here in little old kiwi land

                                    regards shane

Hmmm you can taste the current, geeeee your brave mate.
Last time I did that with my old setup, I got one mighty big whack on my tongue, didn't have time to know what the taste was like, my tongue felt like it was being branded with a hot iron, squeezed, burning, and flapping all at the same time, ha ha ha a bit like IST on the JT forum, (nice cartoon there) lol.

Now that I have recovered from laughing at myself for the last couple of minutes, it looks like you have some experience with EB placements, 2300ma is pretty good for a EB, if you add more plates you will get more out of it.

BTW, you haven't mentioned the sizes of the plates or the types, copper, Steel, Ally, Magnesium etc.

I can see I'll have to get on the blower to Bill shortly and ask him about dip angles, I am thoroughly confused in this area.
Don't worry about the taste test, or should I say, be careful doing that, if lightning hits near you while you are doing it, you might look like over fried frazzled chook.

Thanks for the post Shane, good work.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 22, 2009, 09:25:41 PM
...
and it has just started to put out its old voltage 0.92
and current again 2300 ma I have not setup my batt this way with declination in mind just bury my plates about two meters in the ground.
 
I guess you must mean uA since you are hoping to get 1 amp someday?

I would like to know the dimensions details if you would provide them, please.


Quote
also the jule thief is working again
Cool

Quote
what amazes me is when I do my testing wires on tongue
So, I have this wonderful picture of you connected to the EB by your tongue and your eyes lighting up like a slot machine!

thanks shane,

jeanna

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 23, 2009, 03:12:05 AM
@ Bill

i have verified with my compass, North is in fact "down".
and its dead on at 67-degrees.

so my 5-foot pipe should be perfect.
when i triangulate the distance between my electrodes, limited by the fence, it puts the hypotenuse right at 67-degrees.

so, the only problem i have right now is the fact that my 5-ft pipe is stainles steel, and the other electrode is copper sheets.

this is of course backwards to the reccomended metal-types
for each particular electrode....

that being said::  many of us have 'ruled out' galvonic reaction as a source. So my question is "why" would it matter which end north/south has the steel and which has the copper?

im gonna go ahead with what i have and post the results soon.

hopefully i wont be pulling a 5-ft pipe out of the ground to replace it with a copper one (lol)

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on July 23, 2009, 03:54:54 AM








The stronger currents flow from south to north.
The current produced is highest when the two metals are most widely separated from each other in the electropotential series and that the material nearer the positive end is to the north, while that at the negative end is towards the south.
Lord Kelvin observed that such variables as placement of the electrodes in the magnetic field and the direction of mediums's flow affected the current output of his device.
http://www.rexresearch.com/erthbatry/erthbatry.htm
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 23, 2009, 04:01:30 AM
@ Bill

i have verified with my compass, North is in fact "down".
and its dead on at 67-degrees.

so my 5-foot pipe should be perfect.
when i triangulate the distance between my electrodes, limited by the fence, it puts the hypotenuse right at 67-degrees.

so, the only problem i have right now is the fact that my 5-ft pipe is stainles steel, and the other electrode is copper sheets.

this is of course backwards to the reccomended metal-types
for each particular electrode....

that being said::  many of us have 'ruled out' galvonic reaction as a source. So my question is "why" would it matter which end north/south has the steel and which has the copper?

im gonna go ahead with what i have and post the results soon.

hopefully i wont be pulling a 5-ft pipe out of the ground to replace it with a copper one (lol)

Smokey:

Well, I believe what Iotayodi posted is correct.  But, if you have the materials such as you do and go ahead and try it...what the heck.  We all might learn something here.  My only problem if it was me, was that no matter what juice I got out of it that way, I would always wonder how much more I might have obtained the other way.  But that's me.  Hey, I got excited when I made a few adjustments here and there and got another .3 volts.

Hey, since you are in my state, good luck getting anything into the ground 5 feet, ha ha.  Maybe not where you are but around here, very rocky...a lot of limestone.

Let us know how you make out, and good luck.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 23, 2009, 04:18:29 AM

so, the only problem i have right now is the fact that my 5-ft pipe is stainles steel, and the other electrode is copper sheets.

this is of course backwards to the reccomended metal-types
for each particular electrode....
...
hopefully i wont be pulling a 5-ft pipe out of the ground to replace it with a copper one (lol)
Roll up the sheets and lay down the pipe? Sounds like a dance.

 :D

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on July 23, 2009, 04:44:49 AM
It seems that this sea battery is a way to jack up the volts and amps, if the other end is bigger the other is forced to matched so it goes up, regarding volts and amps.

It has been found that all the common metals behave relatively similarly. The two spaced electrodes, having a load in an external circuit connected between them, are disposed in an electrical medium, and energy is imparted to the medium in such manner that "free electrons" in the medium are excited. The free electrons then flow into one electrode to a greater degree than in the other electrode, thereby causing electric current to flow in the external circuit through the load.

This as i already knew explains why you got those strange results from your...what is it called :p? pirate

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 23, 2009, 05:12:28 AM
EB1   Initial readings:::

Layout:  2ft stainless steel pipe

            3 copper sheets (half-Hexagon)

Voltage: 0.46v
Current: immeasurable
Resistance: 660 Ohm (?)
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 23, 2009, 05:20:17 AM
Smokey:

Nice work.  That is a good start.  A lot of others here will agree that once you leave that in the ground for a few days, your reading will go up.  Stubblefield said that, and myself and others have seen the same thing.  I really have no idea why.  mA's are hard to make and to measure.  See what it reads in a day or two.

Iltfdaniel:

Good post.  I have read similar info before and it is good to see.  Lord Kelvin talked about sea batteries and, funny thing was, most assumed it was galvanic but he proved it was not.  Thanks for posting this here. Did you mean my strange readings on my scope?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 23, 2009, 05:39:09 AM
EB1   Initial readings:::

Layout:  2ft stainless steel pipe

            3 copper sheets (half-Hexagon)

Voltage: 0.46v
Current: immeasurable
Resistance: 660 Ohm (?)
Hi Sm0ky2,

Is that galvanized steel? or perhaps plain steel?

I agree with Bill, It will be conditioned in a week to a month.

And I would add as a reminder you need wetness on the metals for surface contact.
My soil can turn to dry powder in an afternoon. And, when it does my battery drops close to 0.5volts. I usually put a cup of water on each electrode in the morning. this keeps the ground sort of moist. Because dumping water on it will right off make the volts go way down. Then I measure in the afternoon.

I know you probably never get that powder-dry of the west coast in the middle of the continent, but just in case your place is really dry this week, you can accelerate the response with water. Not wet, but moist.

good stuff... carry on,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 23, 2009, 06:11:14 AM
Hi Sm0ky2,

Is that galvanized steel? or perhaps plain steel?

jeanna

definately not galvanized.  its the reminence of a stainless steel
2-piece shower curtain rod.  the 2 pieces slide perfect into each other, so i had cut it down to make my oversized VanDeGraff.

i ended up cutting down the (not quite) 5ft section to about 2 feet, so the lawn guy wouldnt intrude on my earth battery.
i stuck it off in the corner behind the squash.

unfortunately, that forced me to place them a lot closer together than i would have liked, in order to stay on the magnetic line. - which according to my makeshift compass, is right on the money.


ground is pretty wet right now from the rain but on a hot summer day it can get so dry it cracks.
I assure you the Kansas sun is like nothing the west coast ever sees (maybe death valley)....  we get 110F in the summer time on a good day.

 i'll check it again tomorow after some of the moisture goes away.

[edit]  voltage is up to 0.53v now, after about an hour in the ground. im reading 2ma on the meter = 1.06mw
still not enough to power the LED, but i left it hooked up for the night just to see if it lights up later on.


i'll hook up a cap when i do my tests tomorow and see what kind of charge-rate i can get on this thing.

im impressed by the half a volt, i didnt expect that much to be honest. must be something to say about magnetic allignment.

i was thinking about burying a piece of plexi/persplex inbetween the electrodes to force a longer current path. this might make a good substitute for a larger spacing between them. any thoughts?
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 23, 2009, 07:10:06 AM
Smokey:

I'm sorry, thought you were in western Ky.  Well, not too far anyway.  Our dip angles are close.  Did you adjust for your magnetic deviation for your area?  Back before I realized I was not exactly as lined up with true north as I thought, I just put one electrode in the ground and the other I just stabbed slightly into the earth at the other end.  I put my meter on it and stabbed around until I got the highest reading.  Now, it won't be as good as the one you get with everything deep in the ground but, if the theory is correct, you will see the best reading will be off of your magnetic north by the same number, or close to your deviation.  I am guessing your deviation will be about 2.5 degrees, or somewhere in that area.  Really not too far from magnetic north so it may not make all that much difference.  I just want the others to be aware as the deviation can really add up depending where you are.

Jeanna is right and I like her word "condition".  I always wet all of my stuff when I bury it.  My best numbers are when it is totally dry but, there is something about the moisture that helps the materials acclimatize or get conditioned to the ground faster.
You have just seen yourself that your numbers went up, they should continue to do so...to a point.

What kind of cap are you using?  I recommend a supercap of at least 10 Farad, or, whatever you can get a hold of.  My first supercap was only .47 Farad, but it allowed me to light first one led, and then three.

Good work over there.  ***EDIT***  .53 volts should be enough to light a regular led using a JT circuit that has a 2n3904 transistor.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 23, 2009, 07:17:38 AM
definitely not galvanized.  its the reminence of a stainless steel
OK not galvanized puts it closer on the galvanic scale, so you might get lower numbers from that than the galvanized which is zinc coated.
Quote
...
i stuck it off in the corner behind the squash.
... a lot closer together than i would have liked, in order to stay on the magnetic line.

How close?
I think 4 feet is far enough.
I changed mine from 4 feet to 20 feet this year. I am not getting any more than last year.



Quote
ground is pretty wet right now from the rain

Good. That will get it started. I suspect the soil will be better attached when it dries out.


Quote
im reading 2ma on the meter
milli?
I thought I had microamps. I need to check.

Do you have a joule thief that operates on less than 1 volt? You could be making one while you wait.

I didn't get to it today, but gadgetmall has some germanium transistors that turn on at less than 0.7v. This should help all of us that don't have enormous blocks of magnesium in the front garden.  ;) I will be making a separate single JT just for the EB with the germanium transistor and boosted with cap and diodes.
Quote
i'll hook up a cap when i do my tests tomorow and see what kind of charge-rate i can get on this thing.
yes.

plexi/persplex, I dunno, try it. try everything.

I remember before I dismantled my EB garden I had some stubblefield generators and I hooked them in between the EB probes. I was able to boost the output by doing this.
Of course this makes sense. I was adding an inductor to a pulsing field.
I never pursued it, but I think it would be a good way to go. Maybe the pesky part about winding the stubblefield with cloth and doing the galvanic part won't be necessary, if you/we just hook it up somehow using the inductance it has.

Back then it was all just the primary too.
I think it is a good idea to revisit this especially after getting the radiant response today across that secondary.

But, I am rushing you. No Stubblefield yet. Just get the EB going well, then the inductors will naturally follow.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 23, 2009, 07:38:24 AM

How close?
I think 4 feet is far enough.

1.5ft is what i triangulated it approx.
too close i know.. but its what i have to work with.

Quote

milli?
I thought I had microamps. I need to check.
thats why i said "the meter reads",  im not sure if thats an anomalous reading or what, but its holding at a steady 2.4ma now.

Quote

Do you have a joule thief that operates on less than 1 volt? You could be making one while you wait.


i havent made any JT yet..  i still dont understand it....
I/C + transistor ??
what makes it a "joule thief" vs any other I/C + transistor circuit??

i have all sorts of components in my toolkit, but im not really sure what to do with them to make it a "joule thief"
i didnt notice anything special about those circuits in the thread...  i just dont get it...

i assume there is a certain number of turns of x guage wire to tune it to operate at 1v??  i'd have to look up all the parts numbers on my transistors to see which ones would even be applicable..

i have a handful of 5v caps (and some larger) of all kinds,
is electrolytic the best to use for JT??

do i need a secondary pick-up coil? or does it just feed back into the circuit?

im sure all this has been covered in the JT threads, hidden amongst the mess....   its probably simpler than my mind tries to make it, i just dont understand what makes it tick.
I/C circuits have been in use for more decades than i have been alive, yet the "JT" is fairly new...

and still i dont see the difference...

think i need a JT-Tutor...


Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on July 23, 2009, 07:45:09 AM
Smokey:

Nice work.  That is a good start.  A lot of others here will agree that once you leave that in the ground for a few days, your reading will go up.  Stubblefield said that, and myself and others have seen the same thing.  I really have no idea why.  mA's are hard to make and to measure.  See what it reads in a day or two.

Iltfdaniel:

Good post.  I have read similar info before and it is good to see.  Lord Kelvin talked about sea batteries and, funny thing was, most assumed it was galvanic but he proved it was not.  Thanks for posting this here. Did you mean my strange readings on my scope?

Bill

Yep sure did.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on July 23, 2009, 07:50:35 AM
Once were done with logging and gathered enough..but please do share and also tell us your weather and time.

Next would be to get more amps and volts...useing the sea battery method and experiment.

I read on energeticforum that Stubblefield used radium for his earth battery but to keep it open minded...it also produced ions...these ions influence your cell..he must of used the ion effect along with the obvious nuclear effect...but i find the old stuff is the best..books from 1900 to 1950..

Yea i know i haven't shared any data logging anyways i am just feeding to lead on to the same discovery regarding sea batterys and compare and in anycase i view this earth current like some jet stream.

As far as i can see...the earth is interlinked with its systems and along with the solar system...the moon would have an effect with its magnetic do da...along with the earths..and a sea tides is an example but a closer eye would suggest that it is effecting the earth and thus also the ions i feel...all interlinked you know...like sound into electric..turn the sound down and you reduce the electric...versa versa...but then the earth has to maintain it's ions so yea but would have some effect.

Like ionosphere resonance where you tap into the earths amplifer so to speak where normally a radio would have 50 mile range then you tap into this and get 1000 miles in conjuction with the earth...so it is like a little speaker being turned into a massive one and thus...if you turn this into electric..then expect more electric..thus why tesla basicly called it a amplifer so to speak.

The sea method basicly taps into this earth current and use it as a carrier wave like the ionosphere resonance...i feel you can get much more than a few milliamps and a few volts there.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061016142335AAA6Ps0


Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 23, 2009, 07:57:28 AM
1.5ft is what i triangulated it approx.
too close i know.. but its what i have to work with.
thats why i said "the meter reads",  im not sure if thats an anomalous reading or what, but its holding at a steady 2.4ma now.

i havent made any JT yet..  i still dont understand it....
I/C + transistor ??
what makes it a "joule thief" vs any other I/C + transistor circuit??

i have all sorts of components in my toolkit, but im not really sure what to do with them to make it a "joule thief"
i didnt notice anything special about those circuits in the thread...  i just dont get it...

i assume there is a certain number of turns of x guage wire to tune it to operate at 1v??  i'd have to look up all the parts numbers on my transistors to see which ones would even be applicable..

i have a handful of 5v caps (and some larger) of all kinds,
is electrolytic the best to use for JT??

do i need a secondary pick-up coil? or does it just feed back into the circuit?

im sure all this has been covered in the JT threads, hidden amongst the mess....   its probably simpler than my mind tries to make it, i just dont understand what makes it tick.
I/C circuits have been in use for more decades than i have been alive, yet the "JT" is fairly new...

and still i dont see the difference...

think i need a JT-Tutor...

Smokey:

The JT circuit is simple...at least for the simple version which is all you need.  No cap on the JT, no secondary, just a bifilar winding on a 1" ferrite toroid and use a 1k resistor and a 2n3904 transistor.  There is a very good Instructables on how to make the simple one: http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-Joule-Thief/

That is what I used to make my first one.  26 ga. wire, wound bifilar and the components I mentioned above.  This will take a AA battery down to almost nothing.  I have many lights around my house running on "dead" batteries.

The supercap I mentioned will not be part of the JT circuit but will be wired in parallel with your EB.

Very easy to do and it is not the same as using an ic. (like the 555 timer)  It is way more efficient, and if you get into some of the advanced stuff being done on the JT topic, you can get up to 1,300 volts from a single "dead" AA battery.

Hope this helps.

Bil
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 23, 2009, 08:01:11 AM
 :D probably not a full tutor!

The joule thief is really simple.

It relies on the switching transistor to turn the thing on and off.
The toroid which is at least wound with a simple center tapped bifilar toroid is a wonderful and easy design.

I have been using a secondary since December, because it uses less amps and has a much better ability to catch the flyback (back emf spikes) Those are the things that create the difference. The spikes. I will not tempt myself to go on about that for the moment.

A 1k ohm resistor gets added to the base of the transistor to regulate the switching.

It is very simple to do and is wide open for advancement.
The ics though wonderful, are more specific in their uses than this. This is growing with each new person who joins the group.

So, don't worry about the details of fancy winding designs, but do make one without a secondary and one with a secondary.
The one with a secondary uses no light in the C-E place. You stick it there briefly to make sure the circuit is done right, then take it out. It just uses more juice than needed.

I recommend you get a toroid from allelectronics Tor-23 is a really sweet one very high frequency lower volts, but high enough. (10/$1)
2N3904 is a swift transistor capable of 200MHz - 500MHz. Fast enough for jazz. 2N2222 works great too.
1k ohm resistor.
Tele wire cat-5 cable (12 inches 2 wires)
battery leads for the EB or a holder for inside.
Allelectronics sells decent leds too. Later you can get 100 from china for $9.

You can get a toroid from some compact fluorescent bulbs.
I bet it is the ones that scream.
Some have a chip, some have a ballast, some have a toroid. It is too bad radioshack doesn't sell a toroid.

I hope I didn't add too many details.
If I have confused you please ask.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 23, 2009, 08:02:10 AM
lltfdaniel1:


Actually, Stubblefield ended up seeding his garden later on with pitchblende, which is actually the ore that radium comes from.  This does not account for the success of his earth batteries in itself as when he went on tour (Philly, Washington, etc.) he did not seed those areas and his devices still worked just fine.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 23, 2009, 08:11:18 AM
Liftdaniel,

Quote
I read on energeticforum that Stubblefield used radium for his earth battery but to keep it open minded...it also produced ions...these ions influence your cell..he must of used the ion effect along with the obvious nuclear effect...but i find the old stuff is the best..books from 1900 to 1950.

I think that was a lie to discourage any real research on stubblefield.
I wish it would just stop being repeated.
It was a rumor and stated as that in the beginning.
There was never any real evidence except a divorce and a child who did not live to be adult..
Not very good evidence for radium, if you ask me.

It was an inductor which used the moving pulsing em field of the earth currents.
It was basically a joule thief with a secondary.
I have written about this on the stubblefield thread.
Inductors were commonly used back then as your reading has certainly already told you.

And on and on.

But not radium. That was just a rumor.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 23, 2009, 08:17:51 AM
Jeanna:

That was no rumor.  His child died of radiation poising from eating, actually sucking (teething) on a potato slice from the garden.  I heard this from his son's own mouth. (Yes, the son in all of those photos)  He has a radio show and there are some good shows on the net where he talks about the experiments with his father. Also, when Murry State University was built on the old farm of Stubblefield's, they had to remove all of that stuff to make it safe for the students.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 23, 2009, 08:22:34 AM
Bill,
I am going to sleep now, but I would really like to hear those shows you mentioned.
I have never heard anything beyond that Firewire one. It has some interesting stuff, but no interview with the son.

Anytime you can get it I would like to have the link.

thanks,

jeanna.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on July 23, 2009, 08:33:51 AM
Smokey:

The JT circuit is simple...at least for the simple version which is all you need.  No cap on the JT, no secondary, just a bifilar winding on a 1" ferrite toroid and use a 1k resistor and a 2n3904 transistor.  There is a very good Instructables on how to make the simple one: http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-Joule-Thief/

That is what I used to make my first one.  26 ga. wire, wound bifilar and the components I mentioned above.  This will take a AA battery down to almost nothing.  I have many lights around my house running on "dead" batteries.

The supercap I mentioned will not be part of the JT circuit but will be wired in parallel with your EB.

Very easy to do and it is not the same as using an ic. (like the 555 timer)  It is way more efficient, and if you get into some of the advanced stuff being done on the JT topic, you can get up to 1,300 volts from a single "dead" AA battery.

Hope this helps.

Bil

Awesome..1,300v from a dead battery...and people say it converts amps into volts...that is alot of volts from a dead ''aa'' and is in the realms of awesome again :)..must be some kind of overunity effect.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on July 23, 2009, 08:39:19 AM
Liftdaniel,

I think that was a lie to discourage any real research on stubblefield.
I wish it would just stop being repeated.
It was a rumor and stated as that in the beginning.
There was never any real evidence except a divorce and a child who did not live to be adult..
Not very good evidence for radium, if you ask me.

It was an inductor which used the moving pulsing em field of the earth currents.
It was basically a joule thief with a secondary.
I have written about this on the stubblefield thread.
Inductors were commonly used back then as your reading has certainly already told you.

And on and on.

But not radium. That was just a rumor.

jeanna

Alright...my intention is to keep it open minded..not to discourage...i'll stay with the radium along with its ion effects...unless you don't want to buy that from that old book..or find out..... http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:c3afvkX8RnsJ:www.onderzoekinformatie.nl/nl/oi/nod/onderzoek/OND1296916/+radium+ion&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=opera .

The ions in the air from the thunderstorm regarding pirate did cause his earth batterys to make that electric waveform which appears that people who know pirate and pirate knowing his scope is not faulty...pirate found out...

I understand the misconception but i like to iron it out..the intention of those days were overunity.

Yea i know you can get electric from radium.......but it does have ions....where dealing with ions and we already know we can get electric from it so i'll leave it there.

There is the evidence..before i speak..i'll show you..if you question that and the damp nah saying regarding radium but oh course..i see the ion side of it and i do believe it and that like pyramid height...the higher you go regarding ions the more volts so to speak you get...these earth batterys and of course the way you put it...sure ions..but for the sake of not crossing the line..i won't go there :).

Yea i know you can get electric from radium.......but it does have ions....where dealing with ions and we already know we can get electric from it so i'll leave it there.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 23, 2009, 08:40:15 AM
Jeanna:

Those links were on my other hard drive but I found this and we can search from there.  This is the Troy Cory show who was Stubblefield's grandson.  (I had thought is was Bernard who had the show)  If we search through all of these shows we will find it.  I will do it when I get time.

This show is where they open Nathan's old trunk to see what is inside.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzN-FdckEhU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzN-FdckEhU)


Found another related:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jsXFfa9DVY&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jsXFfa9DVY&feature=related)

Here is a good one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqNSCdJP2Og&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqNSCdJP2Og&feature=related)

Still not it but: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0W3_E2p8cM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0W3_E2p8cM)


Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: nightshade on July 23, 2009, 09:26:55 AM
altrez  Jeanna  electricme

thanks for the reply the plates used back this way for the earth batt are

galvanized corrugated roofing  iron size is 8 meters 50 cm width and height

is

3 meters 70cm and the copper pipes very in length from about 3 meters 5cm

I used old pipe from the local scrap merchant  also

the reading from the multimeter  screen reads 2300 ma im guessing that

means milla amps still tomorrow i will get some batteries for the camera and

post some pics of the readings  once i have done that then i will add the

extra plate and pipe set to bring the earth batt up to four sets of pipes and

plates the earth battery is wired in parallel for current 


                                        regards shane :)

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 23, 2009, 09:33:44 AM
Nightshade:

Nice work, and welcome.  You said you hoped to get to 1 amp soon but 2300 mA's is 2.3 amps.  This is probably microamps as Jeanna said.  Unless my math is wrong, this would still be 230 mA's which is almost 1/4 of an amp and that is very good!  Keep up the good work.  If you really are getting 2.3 amps, and I hope you are, we all need to replicate your design.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on July 23, 2009, 10:28:09 AM
Nightshade:

Nice work, and welcome.  You said you hoped to get to 1 amp soon but 2300 mA's is 2.3 amps.  This is probably microamps as Jeanna said.  Unless my math is wrong, this would still be 230 mA's which is almost 1/4 of an amp and that is very good!  Keep up the good work.  If you really are getting 2.3 amps, and I hope you are, we all need to replicate your design.

Bill

Your maths is fine.. 1000ma is 1amp.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on July 23, 2009, 10:30:24 AM
altrez  Jeanna  electricme

thanks for the reply the plates used back this way for the earth batt are

galvanized corrugated roofing  iron size is 8 meters 50 cm width and height

is

3 meters 70cm and the copper pipes very in length from about 3 meters 5cm

I used old pipe from the local scrap merchant  also

the reading from the multimeter  screen reads 2300 ma im guessing that

means milla amps still tomorrow i will get some batteries for the camera and

post some pics of the readings  once i have done that then i will add the

extra plate and pipe set to bring the earth batt up to four sets of pipes and

plates the earth battery is wired in parallel for current 


                                        regards shane :)

Welcome to this forum/thread..nice..your pole must be long because it digs deeper into the earth or conducts ions better, or the surface area getting more ions so to speak like a tall pyramid that is like 500 meters high getting more electric being converted via emf-rf..but this is similar but yea same area.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 23, 2009, 11:30:35 AM
@nightshade,

The mind boggles at these figures.
2.300ma is as Pirate said, 2.3amps, man oh man, your electrodes would qualify in the guinnes book of records. ;D

Shane, go on, add a few more plates into this EB, wow. :D

Don't stick the lead out wires on the tounge, you will do your self a very nasty inturnal DC burn, please be careful.

roofing iron, roofing iron, it musta taken you ages to make a hole for that lot lol

A photo of your EB will make it on my wall, fairdimkum, well a screensaver anyway.

I like it when someone thinks really big.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on July 23, 2009, 01:22:19 PM
@nightshade,

The mind boggles at these figures.
2.300ma is as Pirate said, 2.3amps, man oh man, your electrodes would qualify in the guinnes book of records. ;D

Shane, go on, add a few more plates into this EB, wow. :D

Don't stick the lead out wires on the tounge, you will do your self a very nasty inturnal DC burn, please be careful.

roofing iron, roofing iron, it musta taken you ages to make a hole for that lot lol

A photo of your EB will make it on my wall, fairdimkum, well a screensaver anyway.

I like it when someone thinks really big.

jim

I got some wild ideas for this...instead of useing ground wires...use the earths own electrical system...at the end of the day it is basicly rf-re...well yea......anyways telegrath is like a pulsed sine wave...thus is it possible for us to have internet with our lovely earth batterys...somehow but is possible....they done it with telegraph...if anyone doubts this...email over rf so to speak.

So if the internet goes down at 2012...we will have a handy backup...http://digg.com/tech_news/2012_The_Year_The_Internet_Ends ..http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/canada_net_censorship.html..yea maybe not broadband speed but could be possible...i got to understand earth currents better...hook it up to the earth battery positive negative...turn it into like a broadband signal...or rf related and have binary over the earths electrical system..

Wunderbar i love you guys :D.

Instead of this i would use the earths ionosphere to amplify the radio and then this http://www.docksideradio.com/ptcii.htm for a better signal...or via earth batterys...yep paving the way to certain results.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 23, 2009, 03:22:14 PM
I got some wild ideas for this...instead of useing ground wires...use the earths own electrical system...at the end of the day it is basicly rf-re...well yea......anyways telegrath is like a pulsed sine wave...thus is it possible for us to have internet with our lovely earth batterys...somehow but is possible....they done it with telegraph...if anyone doubts this...email over rf so to speak.

So if the internet goes down at 2012...we will have a handy backup...http://digg.com/tech_news/2012_The_Year_The_Internet_Ends ..http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/canada_net_censorship.html..yea maybe not broadband speed but could be possible...i got to understand earth currents better...hook it up to the earth battery positive negative...turn it into like a broadband signal...or rf related and have binary over the earths electrical system..

Wunderbar i love you guys :D.

Instead of this i would use the earths ionosphere to amplify the radio and then this http://www.docksideradio.com/ptcii.htm for a better signal...or via earth batterys...yep paving the way to certain results.

That's a great idea.. I wonder how we could get a small test to work?  what would be needed.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 23, 2009, 05:13:39 PM
i added a JT to my earth battery this morning.

these LEDs i have arent lighting up from that, i might try finding some smaller LEDs. mine are pretty hefty
under normal circumstances they absolutely will NOT turn on with anything less than 0.7v @ 30ma.
straight off the EB im only getting 2.5ma
as of this morning, voltage has risen to 0.6v

i'll leave it hooked up for now and see how it goes over time.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on July 23, 2009, 06:04:58 PM
That's a great idea.. I wonder how we could get a small test to work?  what would be needed.

-Altrez

Well i'd basicly have to study pactor modems very carefully they deal with emf-rf...if the speed is enough just for email..well yippe better than nothing we can still experiment with email...distance will hardly be a factor anyways...these earth batterys round the world being reported here is interlinked as we speak to the earths rf but amplifing techniques anyway possible to get more amps etc.

A test well start with simple pulsing telegrapth technique..where it will go well someone will notice it..may notice a jump as it is effecting the earth as a whole...it is like putting a stone and throwing it across the river and it jumps..or like jumps back down etc...or hit a stone in the water and what you get is great big resonance ripples..if you view these earth currents as like if someone builded it there then walla...may as well call it the gulf stream of the emf world...were not talking about mere millwatts more like enough power to run every household on the earth.

Well if read about free electrons and the earth it needs a emf for it to get more free electrons and thus with the emf yanking these free electrons to go with the flow of the emf what you get is more emf...but then with this you are getting power from the earth..so hmm...i read somewhere that a guy had it on emf and then quickly put the connector to the ground..well two of them connected to the ground after one was connected to emf or something...then put it into the ground..it acts like a way to get these currents to be attracted to well you know magnets and emf so yea...prehaps.

Basicly email over rf they have a host server whichs converts the pulses or whatever through emf-rf capacitor field and then into binary and thus walla..i know it is possible with earth batterys..anyways carry on with the datalogging some interesting results are coming through.

When tesla described this radiant energy like a gas...here is a clue.. As in the Drude model, valence electrons are assumed to be completely detached from their ions (forming an electron gas)..i can't go to much into mainstream science but this will give you at least an idea of the process.

He had found a means by which this gaseous electrical flow could be greatly concentrated, magnified, and directed. He saw that this radiant electricity was, in reality, a gaseous emanation. An Aetheric emanation(must be other dimension goes into zpe realm it did have scalar effects..i have read about the magnetic resonance amplifier regarding high q tuneing resonance as i am a firm believe in tom bearden). This is why he made constant reference to fluidic terminology ?

Please consider this..these earth batterys are easy to understand and you have read that tesla had helped stubblefield so yea..wished this guy scanned my keely book to give you an idea of resonance which gives more out than in...to give you an idea on how old the universe..it happened with out beginning and is with out end...zpe speed is instant like now whatever distance...constantly recycleing it self not running out and createing and de createing stuff..whilst it exists....can i bring god into this..science says someone designed the human body... http://100777.com/spiritual/beings_having_a_physical_experience this is how i understand the big stuff about zpe...when he crossed time that deals with quantum time domain.

This is just to make it understandable in todays lauguage..take it or leave it i suppose..please keep away from mainstream sciences view on it...tom bearden stated that telsa was basicly dealing with zpe...so you tap into the earths ionosphere with an input...you get a loud Woah back from it..if you or if you have not read about the ionospheric resonance effect..you really ought to read it..it is like a amplifer in the middle of a ocean to make the signal stronger but this is resonance effect regarding that in conjuction with the earth..thus tapping the earth because you can point this back and convert it into power..the power came from the 'earth'.

I have explained it this way for you to better have an idea...but do not rule out zpe it is the magic 3...regarding 3 space.

So if your like well what-if well.....i know deep down this is not so...well your right...when i was like 8 or 9 i had ideas regarding the obvious sticky point...or use something to bypass it... well the bypass is 2 this zpe is 3...all interlinked and like time zpe is instant and electric well slower right..zpe has to be in harmony which has created everything in the universe..and here on earth like a catalyst..so please keep open minded about it and look at a method of extracting zpe which is here http://www.scribd.com/doc/10316855/Magnetic-Resonant-Amplifier .

I don't mean to put anyone off..but this is my realistic way of putting it..tesla basicly jacked it up with this..and if a commcerial man like Tariel can do it then so can you..if you want to learn..aether well at that time it was a mystery but they knew what it was..and they also knew about the zpe effect and used that to.

If you feel this is not correct then please add or just carry on adding stuff regarding datalogging.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 23, 2009, 08:55:33 PM
@lltfdaniel1

Very interesting read.. I will look at the links.

Take care!

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 23, 2009, 09:45:08 PM
i added a JT to my earth battery this morning.

these LEDs i have arent lighting up from that, i might try finding some smaller LEDs. mine are pretty hefty
under normal circumstances they absolutely will NOT turn on with anything less than 0.7v @ 30ma.
straight off the EB im only getting 2.5ma
as of this morning, voltage has risen to 0.6v

i'll leave it hooked up for now and see how it goes over time.
I actually think it is not the led but the transistor you need to look at.
I think the germanium transistor might be some help, but maybe just some more time.
You have nearly doubled the voltage from yesterday, so it might be close to 1v tomorrow.
I do think you must have enough to turn on the transistor. I am still working on this too.

I am also going in the direction of adding a stubblefield generator to act as an antenna along with/in between the 2 single probes.
It added considerably to otherwise puny results last year to do this, and I am just now, looking at the NS generators again. I am being sidetracked by watching how much RE they are picking up.

It is all coming together.

So, Sm0ky2...
Keep thinking and trying new things.
They will all add up someday soon.

Good work bye the way,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 24, 2009, 06:03:46 AM
my problem is definately my LED's...

i just tried all 6 types of LEDs that i have,. none of them will turn on with a single AA battery. i need 2 batteries to make them turn on..

does anyone know where to get a low voltage LED?
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 24, 2009, 06:05:32 AM
Smokey:

All leds will not turn on with a single AA battery...hence the JT circuit.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 24, 2009, 06:15:49 AM
Smokey:

All leds will not turn on with a single AA battery...hence the JT circuit.

Bill

even with my JT, it takes 2 batteries.... maybe i didnt make the JT "correctly"??  i followed this

http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-Joule-Thief/ (http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-Joule-Thief/)

seems to just be a joule-relay.. its not thiefing anything
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 24, 2009, 06:22:33 AM
I have used a lot of super bright and ultra bright leds lately but, even the very small tiny leds I have (regular, not 10mm) need 3.5 volts and about 20 mA's to light.  Now, if you have not reversed the polarity on you JT circuit somewhere, which is very easy to do, trust me, a single AA bat. is plenty to fire even an ultrabright.

Try reversing the polarity on your led as these are diodes and will work only one way.  Did you use a 2n3904 transistor?  If not, you may have one that will not turn on with less than 2.5 volts or so and this could be the reason.  The 2n394 will work easily and so should the 3055...maybe some others too but I can't speak to them.  If you did not use the 2n3904 then I suspect your transistor requires too much juice to even operate at all.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 24, 2009, 06:28:48 AM
I have used a lot of super bright and ultra bright leds lately but, even the very small tiny leds I have (regular, not 10mm) need 3.5 volts and about 20 mA's to light.  Now, if you have not reversed the polarity on you JT circuit somewhere, which is very easy to do, trust me, a single AA bat. is plenty to fire even an ultrabright.

Try reversing the polarity on your led as these are diodes and will work only one way.  Did you use a 2n3904 transistor?  If not, you may have one that will not turn on with less than 2.5 volts or so and this could be the reason.  The 2n394 will work easily and so should the 3055...maybe some others too but I can't speak to them.  If you did not use the 2n3904 then I suspect your transistor requires too much juice to even operate at all.

Bill

i used the 3904s first, as thats what the instructions said to use, but i also gave it a go with a dozen or so others,
i tested the transistor, they're turning on, power is flowing through them, but its not enough for the LEDs...

not sure whats wrong with my JT..

i'll try re-winding the core with idencitle wire, as mine is currently using 30/32 awg from the crystal-radio kit, two different sized might be the problem.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 24, 2009, 06:33:15 AM
even with my JT, it takes 2 batteries.... maybe i didnt make the JT "correctly"??  i followed this

http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-Joule-Thief/ (http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-Joule-Thief/)
I had that problem with my first joule thief. I had bought a ferrite magnet from radioshack thinking it was ferrite.

The thing is if the transistor is not operating you will need the 3 volts.
So, something is wrong.
Maybe backwards, maybe wrong part, maybe the transistor was upside down when you identified the E and C.

1-Put the resistor onto the base
2- wrap the toroid with 2 different colored wires and connect the end of one to the beginning of the other. (I like the way they show this part in the Makezine video.)
3-Then you have 3 legs on the transistor (one has the resistor)
You have 3 wires on the toroid. BUT THEY DO NOT MATCH EACH OTHER.
The twisted pair of wires goes to the pos battery lead.
4-The Emitter goes to the neg battery lead.
5- Now you can match up the rest.
Resistor to one free toroid wire.
Collector to the other free toroid wire
Stick the led in to those last wires. (usually the short lead goes to the Emitter, but not always.)

Maybe one of those pieces will help. (I hope)

jeanna
Quote
i'll try re-winding the core with idencitle wire, as mine is currently using 30/32 awg from the crystal-radio kit, two different sized might be the problem.
Sometimes that kind of wire shorts out.
Do you have any tele wire cat/5, I think they call it?
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 24, 2009, 06:49:15 AM
'bell wire' is what we call it..

i appreciate the concern, but im a computer engineer, i can do this blindfolded in my sleep....

wire shorting out, possibly, if it gets scratched or kinked..
i'll try with bell wire, i was using the magnet wire because i thought the insulation on the other would be too thick to activate the ferrite.

guess thats all i can do at this point is keep trying different things. 

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 24, 2009, 06:51:37 AM
Excellent tutorial Jeanna! 

The only thing I would add is that I have always used insulated, stranded 22 ga. wire and have had no problems.  Other wires obviously work but yes, any kind of mag wire might be too thin and also have a break in the thin coating causing a short like you said.  It took me about 3 tries to get my first one to finally work, but once it did, I have had no problems since.  I messed up on the twisted pair going to the positive side of the bat.  I took 2 wires from the same side of the toroid and twisted them.......didn't work.  I needed one from the inside and one from the outside.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 24, 2009, 06:58:02 AM
'bell wire' is what we call it..

i appreciate the concern, but im a computer engineer, i can do this blindfolded in my sleep....
Oh good.
I thought you had a lot of this kind of experience. You will get it.
Oh so that is what bell wire is. !!
Bill used stranded, mine is 24gauge single. both have thick plastic. It works fine.

You'll get it.

You will have to hide from some of us, because we love when people make joule thiefs and we love to help them! ;D

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 24, 2009, 07:01:36 AM

You'll get it.

You will have to hide from some of us, because we love when people make joule thiefs and we love to help them! ;D

jeanna

im glad to have the help, this is my first attempt at 'thiefing' any joules..  the theory they teach us doesnt allow for this sort of thing

of course, now that im using larger wire, im going to need to find a larger core.. 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 24, 2009, 07:05:45 AM
i appreciate the concern, but im a computer engineer, i can do this blindfolded in my sleep....

 

Evidently not.  At least not yet.

So I guess you don't need any help then.  That's cool.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 24, 2009, 07:10:53 AM

of course, now that im using larger wire, im going to need to find a larger core..
I was just thinking about the core.
I had a lot of trouble with high as well as low permeability cores.
See if you can just get something regular.
I think I already suggested the tor-23 from allelectronics 10/$1.- the frequency can go really high on this one yet it is large enough to fit 11 turns each side of bell  ;) wire.
(It is the one that just did the radiant energy for me)

Goldmine has the medium 5/$1 that people like.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 24, 2009, 07:24:27 AM

2- wrap the toroid with 2 different colored wires and connect the end of one to the beginning of the other. (I like the way they show this part in the Makezine video.)


this is different from the instructable posted above.

bifilar in series vs bifilar in parallel
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 24, 2009, 07:33:42 AM
Ah good.
I was always confused by that one on instructables.

Maybe that hit it. The way they splay out the wires on the makezine video helped me.

My trouble was the 3 wires and the 3 legs not matching each other. I just wanted them to.

Good observation,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 24, 2009, 07:50:35 AM
its still a no go....

JT  just isnt lighting the LED with 1 AA.
still needs 2.

3 different cores, 3 different pairs of wires,
all tried parallel / series
9 transistors, and sore fingers...

ive about had it.....    i dont see how this is gonna help my earth battery
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 24, 2009, 01:19:32 PM
its still a no go....

JT  just isnt lighting the LED with 1 AA.
still needs 2.

3 different cores, 3 different pairs of wires,
all tried parallel / series
9 transistors, and sore fingers...

ive about had it.....    i dont see how this is gonna help my earth battery

Do not give up:) Can you post a schematic of your JT along with a picture? I had problems as well when I first stated. Can you use your DMM to get a voltage reading?

The reason the JT can help your earth battery is simple. Once you get enough juice to turn on the JT you can do lots of really cool stuff Like charge battery's / super caps / Light 100s of LEDS / Light floros etc.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on July 24, 2009, 04:15:58 PM
Found this. It may help on parts selection.

http://watsonseblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/joule-thief-high-efficiency-isthe-topic.html

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on July 24, 2009, 04:31:12 PM
Every little bit helps...you got to know you system.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 25, 2009, 08:44:48 AM
Saturday, 7/25/09  1:30 a.m.
Location: east/central Kansas

single-cell earth battery holding steady at 0.66v / 4 ma

really wish i had a scope so i could get a visual on it, but theres definately 3-phase carrier signal (120 degrees out of phase)
riding on top of the DC voltage.

reminds me of a 3x mono-frequency data transmission
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: oscar on July 25, 2009, 02:00:56 PM
Hello,
I have read Jeanna's statement that she sometimes "waters her earth batteries" and that due to that they perform better.

Then I have also read Pirate88179's statement that his EB works best when the soil is all baked dry.

I have a theory why both these observations are true and I made some experiments for verification.

I used
- a sheet of Copper (size irrelevant, I used ca A4)
- a sheet of Aluminum (size irrelevant, I used ca A4)
- an analog Volt meter
- a digital Volt meter for verification
- a heap of dry (non conducting) sand
- a slab of polished marble/stone (as used for a table top or a window sill)

My Aluminum sheet is anodized, as is all Aluminum sold. That means its surface consists of a matt layer of oxide. This surface is an insulator. At a tiny spot I scraped/sanded this "insulation" off to create a contact point for my Voltage measurements.

1) When I place the Cu and the Al sheet next to (or on top of) each other and put a Voltmeter to the contact point of the Al and the Cu sheet, the voltage reading is Zero.

2) If I stick/dig both sheets into the sand heap and measure again, I get a voltage reading (several hundred mV).
It seems to me that the obtained voltage is independent on the North-South or East-West orientation of the 2 metal sheets (but am not sure, my setup is too crude).

If I slowly pour water on the sand the sand heap "contracts" (gets denser). There a re no more cavities in it. This fact is significant for the explanation as to how and why.

The voltage rises with the sand getting denser. Mind you: the Al surface in contact with the sand is non-conductive, so the effect of the rising voltage is not due to galvanic reactions.

3) If I take my slab of polished stone and clamp one of the metal sheets against each side of the stone, so that the stone gets sandwiched in between the two metals, I get a voltage reading.
WTF !?

Summary
It seems to me that signals (call them field_strength_changes created by each metal due to its interaction with the earth magnetic field) emitted by the two metals can interact and create a voltage difference, IF the two signal sources (the two metals) are in contact. The kind of contact required needs a dense, hard medium (acting as a resonator).
The 'contact' required is not the usual galvanic contact.
The 'contact' required is more like the one which aids good sound transmission (shouting through air is not good sound transmission)

I hear you knockin'
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on July 25, 2009, 05:30:36 PM
Hello Oscar,

Thank you for the experiment results.

Quote
3) If I take my slab of polished stone and clamp one of the metal sheets against each side of the stone, so that the stone gets sandwiched in between the two metals, I get a voltage reading. WTF !?

Most likely you are picking up radon emanations from your rock slab. Get a sealed lead lined box and stick enough slabs with plates in it and you have a radon battery. I would keep the slab vented outside for safety.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 27, 2009, 01:23:57 AM
@ All:

Abbarue posted this video link over on the Kapandze topic:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4615804709108706714

It is Konstatine Meyl doing a very cool Tesla power transmission showing overunity.  He explains a lot of the Tesla theory behind this and I think it will be helpful here. (Jeanna, you will love this)  He shows you can have multiple passive receivers and they all get the same energy, yet the energy on the transmision side stays the same....really great stuff.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 28, 2009, 02:06:26 AM
nice find Bill.

kind of goes along with my newest discovery..

i had my capacitor (4.7mF) in parallel with the earth battery, and i as i was messing with it, i noticed the 19 LEDs flashing randomly..  eventually i figured out that it was the act of connecting and disconnecting the cap that sent a power surge through the base resistor and triggered the transistor.

a feat the EB by itself is unable to do. 

further experimentation revealed that if i open the positive end of the cap and leave the negative connected to the North side of the EB, that it draws more volts from the AIR than the south side of the EB can charge it.

so im going to experiment with this further, and connect a large array of open-ended capacitors to the north side of the earth battery.

i'll post my results later tonight.

it must have something to do with the single charged-plate drawing an opposite charge from the environment, because the north side of the EB by itself does not register any voltage difference, with respect to AIR.

[Edit:]  Wrong again i am........
i must be picking up some kind of spike-back from the JT coil.
its only occuring when i connect then disconnect the cap from the positive side of the JT. reconnecting again turns on the JT, and lights the LEDs for a moment...

guess i need some sort of switching mechanism here to further experiment.....
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 28, 2009, 02:15:02 AM
Monday July 27 2009 7:00 PM Western Kentucky.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on July 28, 2009, 03:05:36 AM
Decent voltage altrez. We had a good rain today and I checked mine at about 8 pm. It was 67v. Thats the lowest Ive ever seen it. Its usually around 89 to 98v. It always goes down when its wet. I went out to my pasture for kicks to see what my galvanized Anemometer mast would show to copper. It was only 48v. 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 28, 2009, 03:11:00 AM
Decent voltage altrez. We had a good rain today and I checked mine at about 8 pm. It was 67v. Thats the lowest Ive ever seen it. Its usually around 89 to 98v. It always goes down when its wet. I went out to my pasture for kicks to see what my galvanized Anemometer mast would show to copper. It was only 48v.

Thank you. I am thinking about moving up to a bigger piece of copper to see if I can brake 1v =) That's my goal anyway. Then I am going to run the leads inside and see if I can fill a super-cap. And then run my JT. It seems like to me anyway that when the earth is dry I get better performance as well.

I think extra moisture in the ground eats up the waves of energy that we are picking up.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 28, 2009, 03:15:24 AM
@ Altez

How far apart are your electrodes?

i have yet to break the 0.68v barrier with mine
i spaced it out to 7ft or so, but no gains as of yet.

its about to storm here and it seems as if the amplitude of the carrier waves is increased, compared to what it was when no storm present.  the DC base voltage is still the same, but the tri-waves im picking up are going crazy...

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 28, 2009, 03:23:03 AM
@ Altez

How far apart are your electrodes?

i have yet to break the 0.68v barrier with mine
i spaced it out to 7ft or so, but no gains as of yet.

its about to storm here and it seems as if the amplitude of the carrier waves is increased, compared to what it was when no storm present.  the DC base voltage is still the same, but the tri-waves im picking up are going crazy...

1 foot :) If you look closely at the pic you can see the spacing. Its one 10 inch galvanized roofing nail. And foot of copper tube.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 28, 2009, 03:49:41 AM
That is cool! ... Altrez has joined the picture group!

I like that you have the probes at the extreme close distance of 1 foot. We have been trying to sus out the difference the distance makes for a long time.

I just added 20 feet to my distance this year and I have not exceeded the values I got 2 years ago. This kind of thing is hard to get much information on with such other variables as moisture and soil type  etc.

Altrez, were you able to figure out how to get the markers to tell you how high the frequency is?

Mine is usually about 2.3-2.5MHz when the wave is looking like that one.

Mine was up to 2.5MHz today.
I saw your post and went right out. I am trying to match the times of at least one person. I am wondering if the pulses in KY would be the same as WA or the same as AK or even if jim is out and about in AU. If it is seen to be a similar wave on the whole earth or definitely not and only a regional thing then I will just do my readings when it is convenient.

This way if most of the fluctuations are seen to be regional, then if a big pilse comes from far away, we should all pick it up and know that it is on the whole globe.

Anyway I will download and post my pics soon.

My joule thief seems to be taking .2v from the available earth volts but not lighting the leds. I am wondering what I am doing. If I am hooking things up as I should.

Oh well,

good job, Altrez,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 28, 2009, 04:10:19 AM
nice find Bill.

kind of goes along with my newest discovery..

i had my capacitor (4.7mF) in parallel with the earth battery, and i as i was messing with it, i noticed the 19 LEDs flashing randomly..  eventually i figured out that it was the act of connecting and disconnecting the cap that sent a power surge through the base resistor and triggered the transistor.

a feat the EB by itself is unable to do. 

further experimentation revealed that if i open the positive end of the cap and leave the negative connected to the North side of the EB, that it draws more volts from the AIR than the south side of the EB can charge it.

so im going to experiment with this further, and connect a large array of open-ended capacitors to the north side of the earth battery.

i'll post my results later tonight.

it must have something to do with the single charged-plate drawing an opposite charge from the environment, because the north side of the EB by itself does not register any voltage difference, with respect to AIR.

[Edit:]  Wrong again i am........
i must be picking up some kind of spike-back from the JT coil.
its only occuring when i connect then disconnect the cap from the positive side of the JT. reconnecting again turns on the JT, and lights the LEDs for a moment...

guess i need some sort of switching mechanism here to further experiment.....

Smokey:

Here is a thought....years ago on the EB topic, several folks suggest using one electrode in the ground and an antenna for the other one to catch currents in the air.  I have never done that but...in view of your findings, maybe the open lead of your cap was acting as a small antenna?  Possibly you could put a length of wire up in a tree and hook that to your open cap lead and the other to your north electrode and compare the output?  I have read where folks have used a helium balloon with a small wire coming down from it on one side and an earth ground on the other and, they reported getting good power from it.

As I said, I never have tried this but maybe I should have.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 28, 2009, 02:46:08 PM
That is cool! ... Altrez has joined the picture group!

I like that you have the probes at the extreme close distance of 1 foot. We have been trying to sus out the difference the distance makes for a long time.

I just added 20 feet to my distance this year and I have not exceeded the values I got 2 years ago. This kind of thing is hard to get much information on with such other variables as moisture and soil type  etc.

Altrez, were you able to figure out how to get the markers to tell you how high the frequency is?

Mine is usually about 2.3-2.5MHz when the wave is looking like that one.

Mine was up to 2.5MHz today.
I saw your post and went right out. I am trying to match the times of at least one person. I am wondering if the pulses in KY would be the same as WA or the same as AK or even if jim is out and about in AU. If it is seen to be a similar wave on the whole earth or definitely not and only a regional thing then I will just do my readings when it is convenient.

This way if most of the fluctuations are seen to be regional, then if a big pilse comes from far away, we should all pick it up and know that it is on the whole globe.

Anyway I will download and post my pics soon.

My joule thief seems to be taking .2v from the available earth volts but not lighting the leds. I am wondering what I am doing. If I am hooking things up as I should.

Oh well,

good job, Altrez,

jeanna

I have been posting pictures for for awhile :) Have you not seen them? The scope is reading 166.6kH I have the probe attached to the copper and the ground clip attached to the Nail.

You will need a lil over .3 volts with a few mAs to turn on the JT with a low powered transistor. How much current are you reading from your EER?

Thanks!

Take Care,

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 28, 2009, 06:10:09 PM
I have been posting pictures for for awhile :) Have you not seen them? The scope is reading 166.6kH I have the probe attached to the copper and the ground clip attached to the Nail.
I meant scope pic.
I was melting from the heat and had no patience to check my comments. It will be hot again today!

What the scope reads is what is between the markers, right?
You might have taken the pic then fixed the markers, so I wasn't sure if the markers were in the right place on that wave. Believe me, I know how tricky it is to get a pic you can share.
Quote
You will need a lil over .3 volts with a few mAs to turn on the JT with a low powered transistor. How much current are you reading from your EER?
I have more than enough volts.
I broke the meter that can read amps and I would have to rig up a 10 ohm resistor to read the amps.
I am sure it is the problem. I had in the microamps most of the time last year.

I downloaded jim's cap idea. I do not have a 1000uF cap but I do have some 47uF caps. That configuration just might do it for me, without blinking too. I can put 2 of them in parallel too!

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 28, 2009, 06:16:59 PM
I meant scope pic.
I was melting from the heat and had no patience to check my comments. It will be hot again today!

What the scope reads is what is between the markers, right?
You might have taken the pic then fixed the markers, so I wasn't sure if the markers were in the right place on that wave. Believe me, I know how tricky it is to get a pic you can share.I have more than enough volts.
I broke the meter that can read amps and I would have to rig up a 10 ohm resistor to read the amps.
I am sure it is the problem. I had in the microamps most of the time last year.

I downloaded jim's cap idea. I do not have a 1000uF cap but I do have some 47uF caps. That configuration just might do it for me, without blinking too. I can put 2 of them in parallel too!

thank you,

jeanna

That might work. I am looking for a good cap to put on my EB. I saw some of the ones you talked about in the other thread. I will stay away from them :) Do you have to hook up to a Bridge before going to the cap?

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 28, 2009, 06:30:49 PM
That might work. I am looking for a good cap to put on my EB. I saw some of the ones you talked about in the other thread. I will stay away from them :) Do you have to hook up to a Bridge before going to the cap?

-Altrez
I guess that is what I am finding out.
The ones I showed in the pic, were the exact kind Bill used for his first EER lights a led success with the video etc.

So, Bill never had to use a bridge, but since I am still not getting a light, and I have ,9v, I will try 2 things.
1- get the amps draw way down with xee2's suggested procedure, and then if that still doesn't work,

Jim's cap on the bridge.
Sounds like a sailor.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on July 28, 2009, 09:06:32 PM
I have three 6 inch 3/4 copper tubing with zinc plated 3/8 all thread down the center of the tubing spaced at about 2 inches apart. They always measure the same. Ive done small plumbing copper and a separate zinc rod spaced about 3 foot apart. Its always the same. Seeing how half the earth is under the sun at any give time,its adding radiation which would seem to up the voltage. Its in a constant ebb and flow. We dont get much snow in Florida,though we have at times,but it would be interesting to see the voltage when there is snow on the ground. If you have friends in the extreme Northern and Southern latitudes as well as the equator,maybe you can get them to drive a small piece of copper and zinc rod and check it once in a while. Cheap enough.     
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 28, 2009, 09:14:16 PM
Iota:

For what it is worth, most of my early experiments with the electrodes took place in the winter of 2007, some with snow on the ground.  I did not notice any difference in the output, no more, no less.  It was always pretty steady at the same levels in either day or night.  Now, that is just for my location here in south central Kentucky, it may very well vary greatly depending where one is on our planet.

Note that when I say it was steady, I meant the output levels as I could measure them back then.  This was long before I had a scope and you have all seen the shots I have done recently.  The signal is all over the place with very large spikes.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on July 28, 2009, 09:28:29 PM
Quote
I did not notice any difference in the output, no more, no less.
Did it change during the hot months?
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 28, 2009, 09:36:57 PM
I have three 6 inch 3/4 copper tubing with zinc plated 3/8 all thread down the center of the tubing spaced at about 2 inches apart. They always measure the same. Ive done small plumbing copper and a separate zinc rod spaced about 3 foot apart. Its always the same. 
Hi IotaYodi
I am glad to hear from someone who has made the copper-pipe-with-zinc-rod-inside type of EB.

I am glad to hear you have found the same results we have over the last 2 years.

Thanks for that info.

BTW, I am in WA state near the 48th parallel. As Bill said, we did do this in the winter.
The trouble with winter is the frozen ground.
The voltage was very much down.
Here.

---

Here is some more. I am sorry to say this...

Remember how we could not get any series type additional voltage? of course you do,

I made these little cement pots with the idea that an earth like substance = sand and lime - could provide separation enough for more voltage without being in the same pot of soil where it adds up to zero..

But I was only able to get 0.1v addition to the basic 2 probe EB.
I have a metal dome frame and today I connected some leads to that and to the zinc nail nearby in the soil.
The voltage across these leads from dome to nail was 0.385 when tested alone.

The dome only added 0.1 to the voltage across the 30 feet between the carbon welding rods and the zinc nail.

So, this morning the voltage on the 2 probe EB was .75v and with the added .385v from the dome the total only added .1v and now it reads .85v.

Darn! very consistent, though.

And where did the rest of it go?

My next trick will be to make a Y shaped wire from speaker wire.
I will connect the 2 stranded side to the dome and then split it.
One side will go to ground.
The other side will go through a cap to the zinc nail.

Or should I put the one with the cap to the ground?
It is in a tesla patent...

(The test after that will be to go directly to the carbon without stopping at the zinc.)


 :D ,
jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 28, 2009, 10:51:42 PM
@ Iota:

No real change in the summer except when the ground began to dry out from the spring thaw, the output increased some, not a lot but it was better.

@ Jeanna:

I think I know where your volts went.....ready?  Check for mA's, I would bet you picked up a bunch by connecting that large frame structure into the circuit.  Maybe it is not the same but when I added my second carbon rod to the north, I was disappointed in that it picked up like another .2 volts, but then I realized my mA's had increased from like 5 to 8.5 or so.  (I don't recall the exact numbers from back then.)

Since I never tried the antenna approach it may be totally different, I don't really know.  I have heard you need to use the antenna (your structure) and the electrode on the north side of the EER.  I don't recall which one you said you tested with, maybe you tried both.

Hey, I just heard on the news today that it is very hot out your way. (Duh, you have been saying that for a while now)  Funny thing is, while you are having record high temps for your area, we here in KY are about to set a new, all-time record for the coldest July since they have been recording temps.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 29, 2009, 01:16:49 AM
:

I think I know where your volts went.....ready?  Check for mA's,
OH Yes,
I do remember that. OO that would be great. Combining that with the resistor bracelet, I just might have some light tonight. (actually I need to shade my eyes at night. I have neighbors who are afraid of the dark or something.)

Quote
...  I have heard you need to use the antenna (your structure) and the electrode on the north side of the EER....
Well,no.
I am not about to move the dome and the eer is across the back yard from it. The antenna is west of the eer...
Oh darn. I thought that was pretty much a perfect antenna.


Quote
Hey, I just heard on the news today that it is very hot out your way. ...
the coldest July since they have been recording temps.
Oh well, would you do me a favor and send it back?  :D
Please?
This is really hot.
I really like the maritime climate. So do my plants. I have been watering 3x a day. The good of this heat is I might get a tomato out of it. We plant tomatoes here just in case we get this kind of weather.

ok out for now,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on July 29, 2009, 01:17:09 AM
@IotaYodi,

I can confirm your setup. I've done different configurations(near&far) and still get the same average reading (.600-.900mv & 45ua to 60ua). It all depends on the days wet grounds seem to lower it.

I just dusted this off but here are some shots of my earth battery setup. I had another one which was in the ground since 2007 but after the snowy winter months I forgot about it. Now it's lost to the morass of weeds and prickers that have taken over.

In the first shot it shows the exploded view.
1 Copper Pipe
1 Zinc bolt in the center
2 rubber washers to isolate the copper pipe
2 steel washers and...
1 nut to join them. (oops wrong movie).

Second shot is fully assembled.

Third and Fourth shot show voltage and current I just took the readings at about 5pm, Jul 28,2009, Central CT.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 29, 2009, 01:49:00 AM
Jeanna:

No, I didn't say that right.  What I meant was...whatever you are using for your north electrode should be the one connected to the frame, NOT that it had to be aligned in any way.

In other words, If/when I put up an antenna, I will test between my carbon rods and the antenna for juice.  It should not matter (as far as I know) where my antenna is in relation to the electrode but I have read I will get better results with my + electrode over my minus.  Did I explain this better this time? (I hope I did)  You could try tests with each and see which one gives better results.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 29, 2009, 02:54:57 AM
Did I explain this better this time? (I hope I did)  You could try tests with each and see which one gives better results.

I see.
You probably described it fine before. I just heard it not fine. So, thanks for clearing this up.

What I am thinking about doing with this after I get some standard results of my yard etc, is to try the antenna with the raft of coils, and if I can ever figure how to connect the ignition coil I will use that too - or a pair of them.

But first, I want to see what the antenna does with the plain probes.
Then probes with a supercap to ground like that tesla patent where it splits.

ooo it just keeps reminding me of my 2 tier where, most recently I made the split in the secondary.

The similarity is that the 2 threads of the split in the form of a Y have the same pulses as each other. The meter and scope say they have no pulses at all. But that is because they are pulsing together. which is what the earth is doing, and one probe will go up at the same time another one goes up.

It is up or down from no reference, just from earlier in time.

So, time is the tool.

Now, delay one, while the other is undelayed, and there should be more potential. and maybe amps too, if the ions or electrons are going along for the ride.

I guess I better find that patent.
6PM still 90 degrees.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: nueview on July 29, 2009, 04:36:57 AM

 @ pirate
if you try the ground to the antenna trick you may want to try this idea out it seemed to work pretty good for me some years ago a wire suspended from some steel wool about 20 foot up and three diodes 1000 volt reverse bias and ns speed one cap and a micro amp meter across the cap the negative of two diodes run from ground to the cap and cap to antenna the other diode runs negative from antenna to ground it charged quite well and seemed to be more DC in nature.

voltage rises fast with altitude so you really don't need more than about twenty foot i used this even with two ground points and it worked as well perhaps the diode from the antenna to ground could be replaced with a jt to add effect.

just a thought
Martin
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 29, 2009, 06:52:15 AM
ok so....

i couldn't help but notice the vast array of different materials everyones using to make their EBs...

so inbetween my 7-ft spacing on my existing EB, i added 3 more terminals of differing materials..

1) just a regular 10-penny nail
2) a 1.5 inch galvanized post
3) an experimental electrode *

the nail and the short galvanized post produced around 0.3v
nothing impressive...

HOWEVER::  my experimental electrode was impressive indeed.

those of you with children, im sure you are familiar with those stupid wire things used to hold TOYS in their packages...

steel wire, insulated with a clear plastic. kind of like a super-twist-tie......

ok well, i stripped 2 inches off one end, and coiled the wire up into an air-core inductor.
and stuck it into the ground.
Whallla -  0.98v between this experimental electrode and my copper plates.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 29, 2009, 07:08:50 AM



HOWEVER::  my experimental electrode was impressive indeed.
...steel wire, insulated with a clear plastic. kind of like a super-twist-tie......

ok well, i stripped 2 inches off one end, and coiled the wire up into an air-core inductor.
and stuck it into the ground.
Whallla -  0.98v between this experimental electrode and my copper plates.

Uh oh soon you will put it in a core and add a secondary. You are fast..  ;)

Ya Know sm0ky2, It really does make the most sense to be looking at this as ac. It is now possible to see it on all the scope shots that it is moving up and down, not so irregularly either.

As you have already described, this kind of wave of pulsed dc or ac does a lousy job turning on a joule thief. I learned that to my dismay when I tried to daisy chain them and ended up with the 2 tier circuit.

This is not even doing a good job once it is rectified. Unless I missed a post where you were able to get the jt light lit.

So, all in all, this inductor idea is terrific. Maybe RLC will be best, because the power in one location seems weak. Once it is going through the inductor, it could swing back with a cap.

hmm.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 29, 2009, 07:14:17 AM
place 2x   2700uF caps in series with each other

and place the pair in parallel with my EB.
connected to the JT
and
my LED is constantly pulsing from the EB at about 2Hz.

i have finally succeeded in drawing 'usable' power from an earth battery !!!!!!!!

also: i added a second "experimental electrode" in parallel and the current increased by a full millaamp
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 29, 2009, 07:38:35 AM
EB is puttng out 0.98v @ 3.3ma

kind of dark outside, but i made a small 30sec video
flashing 3 LEDs now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v0ik0MyhZ0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v0ik0MyhZ0)

enjoy :)

[update]::  i have 6 "experimental electrodes" on it now, and adjusted the potentiometer, i have it up to about 12Hz
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 30, 2009, 12:25:39 AM
...
i have finally succeeded in drawing 'usable' power from an earth battery !!!!!!!!

also: i added a second "experimental electrode" in parallel and the current increased by a full millaamp
Finally?

I have been trying for 2 years and you got it accomplished in under 2 weeks!

So, please tell me.
You stuck the exp el into the ground and measured the vilts between that and the copper electrode?

The jt was connected between the zinc and the cu electrodes and this exp el was just stuck in the ground near the copper?

more detail please...

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 30, 2009, 02:38:35 AM
Smokey:

Nice job!  I would think that you should be able to find the right cap value/relationship to keep those on all the time like Jim has done.  I know we are all working with different materials at different locations so I can't say for sure but, you are lighting 3 leds.  Have you tried just one to see if it stays on longer or if it changes the flash freq? I gave you 5 stars on the vid and subscribed to your channel.  If you get a chance to make a video, or post stills of your set-up, that would be helpful here to others.  Nice going.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 30, 2009, 04:31:24 AM
@ bill thanks man.
  i started off with 1 LED, the second 2 were added in parallel, freq. didnt change, just their brightness went down a bit.

@ Jeanna

i got rid of the tiny zinc-plated screwthing, it was useless.
same or the 10-penny nail.

i sitll have my 2ft stainless pipe in the ground, but its not connected, the exp. els took its place in the EB.

so its just the 6 coiled exp. els in parallel (-),
about 2ft spacing,
and the 3 copper plates in parallel (+)

the morning dew shut the whole thing down this morning.
got a few blinks this afternoon when i got home and messed with it, then the rain came...

i'll go out there in a bit and see what its doing. get some current readings and whatnot.
[update] grounds still too wet. maybe tomorow
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: oscar on July 30, 2009, 07:38:07 AM
...my experimental electrode
those of you with children, im sure you are familiar with those stupid wire things used to hold TOYS in their packages...

steel wire, insulated with a clear plastic. kind of like a super-twist-tie......

ok well, i stripped 2 inches off one end, and coiled the wire up into an air-core inductor.
and stuck it into the ground.
Whallla -  0.98v between this experimental electrode and my copper plates.

Hi sm0ky2.
thanks for posting details about your experiments.
Please include a shot of such an experimental electrode in your next video.
Otherwise there is too much room for misunderstandings.
Do I understand it correctly? The insulated and coiled part is under ground and the non-insulated end is above ground for connection to the multi meter or load?

If the coiled part below ground is all insulated, it would finally convince everybody that there can't be "current" flowing between the plus and minus electrodes through the earth.
That would be very significant and would open a door to better understand what really goes on.
So please confirm.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 30, 2009, 08:06:36 AM
Oscar:

what do you mean there "can't" be current flowing underground?  What is it then that lights my 400 leds and my 48" tubes from my 2 electrodes if it is not current?  What is your theory?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: oscar on July 30, 2009, 04:04:45 PM
Hi Pirate88179
... what do you mean there "can't" be current flowing underground?  ...
thanks for asking.

here is what I proved to myself:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7769.msg193504#msg193504

And I would explain it like this:
Yes, current is obviously flowing from one EB-electrode to the other, through a wire above ground once the two electrodes are connected. The current flows through that wire to power a load hooked in, (in series).

But yet I think: no current is flowing underground, between the two electrodes . In fact if a current would flow underground between the two EB-electrodes, they would be quasi short circuited, which would make the whole setup useless for our purpose, as any galvanic connection under ground would diminish the usefully voltage we can measure between the electrodes.
 
I look at an EB or EER setup under load as a "non-closed electrical circuit" since there is no electrical connection under ground - in my view - especially when the ground is dry. And that's why I would like sm0ky2 to confirm, that it works with electrodes that are electrically insulated from the surrounding soil.
We already know, that it works best with dry ground, which is similar to insulated electrodes.

My explanation for this phenomenon goes like this:
The two dissimilar metals are under the influence of the earth magnetic field.
And we know that "every thing" gets excited into a (super fast) oscillation with a specific frequency (plus harmonics) when that thing is exposed to a magnetic field. The frequency of oscillation of the excited thing is very particular and distinct for each material and also for each metal.
This distinc freq is called the material's NMR (nuclear magnetic resonance) frequency.

Now, if two different metals are tightly embedded in a non-compressible material, and are continuously excited by the earth magnetic field, such as two EB-electrodes in dry soil, both metals oscillate with different frequencies. "Oscillating" is like making a sound, with waves being emitted from the source of that sound.
So the continuously emitted oscillations/waves of each electrode get transmitted under, through and by ground, and shortly afterwards hit the other electrode.
If there were nothing in between to propagate the waves, each electrode would oscillate unhindered, but in our case there is a medium (ground) in between the two electrodes, transmitting the oscillations and consequently each electrode gets in fact hindered, as it is impacted by the "strange" incoming oscillations  from the other (having a different frequency from its own).
This creates a "tension" (= old word for voltage) in each electrode. Once the electrodes get connected by a wire and a load, this tension can get released (relaxed) by what we call "current" "flowing off" through the wire.

To me it seems important that the tension is the result of an interaction - i.e. an electrode's own oscillation being interfered with by the incoming oscillation emitted by the other electrode.

Ok.
Would just like to add, that I understand that the above may seem far fetched. But the problem in communicating is, that in order to achieve an understanding with somebody else, a way needs to be found to relate the newly observed causes and effects (which we do not understand up till now) to something similar we already know.
I at least, can not achieve understanding otherwise.
I am sure other, probably better explanations or images can be found for what is happening.
And I myself can package the above into different words. Such as ".... no current flowing underground but the electrostatic field caused by the oscillation of each electrode propagates through the insulator (dry earth) to impact the other electrode ...

Right.
Now how does the above go together with the fact that Nathan Stubblefield in his battery patent US600457 calls for water or moist soil to surround his Fe-Cu parallel wound primary coil?

Well, he states that the copper wire must be insulated and the iron "may also be insulated without destroying the operativeness of the battery" (quote from the patent).
So I think we should conclude that the water or moist soil are not used as "galvanic electrolytes" such as in an electrochemical cell (car battery), but rather as a dense, incompressible medium in tight physical contact with the electrodes that propagates the oscillations as described above.

Thanks to all of you who share their findings.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on July 30, 2009, 04:33:52 PM
There is an electromotive force,voltage,pushing current of some type and standard volt meters pick it up. You could call the current the flow of dog biscuits if you wanted to. They still energize standard electrical devices. My money is still on electron or ion flow. I see a greater electric potential difference in the earth than the air. You can take your Anode out of the ground and hold it in your hand and meter to the Negative rod and the voltage will drop. Anything that moves in a magnetic field creates some type of electric field even if its only at the atomic level.. A flowing electric current creates a magnetic field. Maybe we should do some gauss readings to see how strong the field is.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on July 30, 2009, 05:00:54 PM
Quote
To me it seems important that the tension is the result of an interaction - i.e. an electrode's own oscillation being interfered with by the incoming oscillation which are emitted by the other electrode.
Just read your post. The tension is the cause of the flow. The differing  oscillations would be the two potentials that are not in equilibrium creating the flow of current. But its still a flow of current.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on July 30, 2009, 07:00:13 PM
Has anyone tried charging a Earth Battery?

I just hooked the EB for two hours on a 15watt, 23v solar panel. My initial readings were 45u amps and 901mv. After two hours charging the readings were 254u amps and 1.29volts. I'll keep it charging and will check back around 5:00 to see what the readings are.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 30, 2009, 08:08:12 PM
@Oscar,
Thank you for your explanation.
It incorporates so many of the "odd" things that we see.

I too, hope to see a drawing or some details about these inductors.
I think this is the next step.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 30, 2009, 09:40:40 PM
Has anyone tried charging a Earth Battery?

I just hooked the EB for two hours on a 15watt, 23v solar panel. My initial readings were 45u amps and 901mv. After two hours charging the readings were 254u amps and 1.29volts. I'll keep it charging and will check back around 5:00 to see what the readings are.

That is a very neat idea! Keep it up and PLEASE post your results!

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on July 30, 2009, 11:17:26 PM
Big jump on the amps. After you disconnect the solar cell let the eb level out for a day then do a reverse polarity charge.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on July 31, 2009, 12:04:37 AM
Just measured the EB after being charged with the panel. The reading was 1.31v and 361ua from this mornings 901mv and 45ua. It clouded over a couple times so it wasn't a full charge from the panel. Pretty good jump in amps, if you have a feedback loop to the earth battery from your circuit you can probably maintain it.

@IotaYodi, I disconnected it and will let it sit to see what it stabilizes to. If there are any breaks in the weather tomorrow I'll try a reverse charge.

Tomorrow is supposed to rain here but Saturday is looking great for solar. I want to hook the 90 watt solar array to it.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 31, 2009, 01:42:02 AM
Oscar:

Thank you for your reply.  Well, that sure is an interesting theory.  I can't agree or disagree with it as I don't know enough to do either one.  From my own experiments, I can say that the Telluric theory fits perfectly but, so does yours as far as my results go.

I guess this means more experiments and the more folks we have doing this, the more we will all learn.

Thanks,

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 31, 2009, 01:46:25 AM
Has anyone tried charging a Earth Battery?

I just hooked the EB for two hours on a 15watt, 23v solar panel. My initial readings were 45u amps and 901mv. After two hours charging the readings were 254u amps and 1.29volts. I'll keep it charging and will check back around 5:00 to see what the readings are.

Yes, I tried this almost 2 years ago.  I used a nine volt battery after reading that Stubblefield sometimes needed to "jump start" his system.  now that we are looking into Tariel Kapandadze's work in which he does the same thing, I will have to go back and take another look.

From memory (Oh no, here we go...) I just hit the system with the 9 volt for about 20 seconds and all of my reading would go way up...just for a few minutes and then I could watch them go down.  Now I never tried pulsing it at various freqs so that might be interesting.  I do also recall posting this over on the EB topic that once when I did this, about 5 earth worms came flying out of the ground like their butts were on fire.  as some pointed out back then, this is a known method for catching worms for fishing.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on July 31, 2009, 02:06:10 AM
I just checked the EB again about an hour and half later. The reading was 860mv 159ua. It dropped pretty fast. The current is dropping slower than the volts which just went below what I had this morning.

@Pirate, so if I put 90watts in the ground I should do it in the chicken yard or open a worm stand at the end of my driveway. :) What is the main frequency of the earth battery? I've had a hard time reading it with the scope.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 31, 2009, 02:16:04 AM

....or open a worm stand at the end of my driveway. :) What is the main frequency of the earth battery? I've had a hard time reading it with the scope.
worm stand  ;D ;D
Hi dream,

I have consistently been getting 2.3-2.5MHz as the ac on the carrier wave.
One time I measured the carrier wave to be around 50KHz but at other times it was either irregular or too hard to read. I think it only occurred to me recently that I could be reading the carrier wave as well as the smaller wave riding it.

But all this is in millivolts 20mv to 57mv depending on the day, and OVER the dc that the dmm reads.
I assume over that, otherwise where did those .983volts go?

EDIT
Since I was the last person to post I will add to it.

I have just been to a couple of inductance sites. I finally re-found the crystal radio calculator. which includes wire sizes in the calculation.
I mixed that with the RLC sliders at barrys coilgun site and looking for a
resonance with 2.2MHz to 2.5MHz
.8v
2 ohm
103pF
 I found I wanted a coil of
.5uH. Cool now to make one of those with a wire wrapped around a bic pen
(3/8 inch)
24 or 26 gauge wire
7 turns

I wonder if this is close to what sm0ky2 made?

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: nightshade on July 31, 2009, 08:22:31 AM
Hi all

here are some pics of my earth battery with voltage and current readings

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 31, 2009, 12:34:18 PM
@all

Electricme is back, ha ha, and I have a major breakthrew in earth batteries.

Nightshade, those vertical couggerated iron roof sheeting looks very nice there.

OK, time to upset the apple cart all over the place, throw out some old thinking that says it cannot be done with PROOF it can be done.

For those who don't know, I have been taking a very serious look at making a series EER setup, Earth Energy Recovery system, and I have succeeded.

I first posted my results on Bills Joule Thief Forum today and since this is the right place to post, so I will do so here.

OK, first off, I read somewhere that someone had made a series earth battery, everyone I knew on the OU site hasent done it, but I did it today, it was deemed an impossible task, so we all had to make dooo with piddling small voltages and currents.

Like most here, I have been fiddling around with Copper Rods, aluminium, steel plates, even throwing a sheet of lead into the mix, made a 8 inch horozontal setup, they all worked, up to a point, but the elusive series cell setup was always slipping out of our grasp. Everyone tried to make a series setup and failed, even myself, but I blitz Bills JT forum with success, I think a few members were asleap but answered phone calls to see what was going on.

Today the 31st of July in 2009 I electricme succeeded in making a series earth battery. IT WORKS

I documented my success by taking photos and small 3gp files which I would like to post here

There is a lot of information, and it will be all posted in this forum for now on, as I think I have dissrupted Bills JT forum enough. I have been fielding questions all day long and I need to put all my info here so anyone can replicate if they wish to.

I apologise to everyone here, me being away since the 19th page so I have a lot of reading to catch up on.

I notice a few new people here who I havent met, I will no doubt meet you all soon enough.
 
To begin, here is the working EER, it drives my White LED, no trouble at all, energy stright from the earth.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 31, 2009, 01:28:51 PM
@ALL

So what has been the elusive secret?
Well it was simple, and I'm sure you will laugh when you find out, but first of all here are the details about my EER.

There are 7 copper tubes, 3/4 inch wide by about 6 inches long.
There are 7 Zinc coated nails about 4 inches long

You need 6 multi strand earth wire about 8 inches long
and 8 aligator clips to solder to each wire end

You need 2 long pieces of wire to take the voltage to whever you want to put it.

and the most important item of all, a roll of plastic insulation tape.


Prepare you copper tubes, cut as many copper tubes as you like, I cut 7 because that was the length of copper pipe I had avaliable, so I ended up with 7 tubes.

Each tube gives out around .6volt in dry dirt, and the amount of voltage out from your EER setup will vary from site to site.

You will have seen from the 1st pic that I have placed all copper tubes in a row, what I didnt say in the other forum, was, this placement is EAST to WEST, it is not North to SOUTH as all the usual setups I have done. WHY?
Actually, it was because of a slipup on my part, I simply forgot to place them North to South. Lucky break, but then again, it not be so lucky, Nth to Sth may turn out to be the best position, at this point in time I simply don't know.

Heres a few pics to help people begin replications

1214 = Copper pipe length in vice, 1 section done
1215 = 7 lengths have been cut to length, and ready for further processing
1223 = You must file off any dull area, to solder heavy duty leads to.
1225 = Grab the biggest soldering iron you can find and solder the leads
           onto the copper pipe ends, solder across the pipe side, its neeter.


 .
 


 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 31, 2009, 01:39:23 PM
Dont forget to "tin" the copper tubes
Sorry about the muckup in the last photo sequence, Im very tired.

I have finished soldering 6 wires to the copper tubes
The 7th tube is where you will solder the RED long wire to
Solder alagator clips to all wire ends, including the RED and Black ones.
The Negative wire is soldered to the top of a ZINC NAIL
you can solder to Zinc, as I found out


Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 31, 2009, 02:11:54 PM
OK here is the whole Kitt and cabootle
1230 = all that is needed to make a series EER, call it a beginners pack.
1231 = Copper tube is nice and clean inside.
1232 = All tubes in their nice shiny taped sides, (the KEY)

I discovered the all my previous attempts to make a earth battery failed, it was a trial and reject method, before I found the right combination, here is what you need to do to each copper pipe to prepare it for operation.

OK, you need to "insulate" the pipe, on the "OUTSIDE" ALL the way fromn the top to the bottom of the tube, the side of the tube must not be exposed to the dirt, or make contact with the dirt, as it NULLS OUT earth energy.

Grab a copper tube, grab the insulation tape, put 1 complete layor around the top of the tube, you can leave a small top area exposed, but it must "never" be in contact with the earth.

Now carefully wind the tape all the way down in a sprial fashion, do not stop at the end.
Wind a couple more turns further down, then cut tape.
Next "POKE" the excess tape back inside and up into the tube.
Leave the bottom end exposed.

Do the same with all the other copper tubes.

Next DIG a trench, the depth of the tubes, the tubes are then put vertically in the earth like this..

Fill the trench in FIRST.
Now poke a tube in the freshly turned earth, thats right, yau are saying to yourself, the earth will go inside the tube.
Thats right, we need this to happen.

Poke all the rest of the tubes in the earth, go DO IT, get those fingers grubby and dirty, (Dont tell mum shhhhh).

Place al tubes about 1 inch apart, sisde to side, if you don't think you can do that, then try 2 inches apart, what not try 6 inches apart (dont know if it will work that far, but it might)

Now, this is importany, fill aoo tubes UP to the TOP with dirt.
Grab a thick stick or something just smaller than the inside of the tube and RAM the dirt down.
Press down hard around the outside of the tubes also, DONT BREAK THE PLASTIC INSULATION or you can KISS it good bye.

Next grab a ZINC nail, and "carefully" poke it into the CENTER of the tube full of dirt, harrrrr its great playing in dirt isn't it? he he.

Dont allow the nail to touch anywhere inside the cell or it wont work.

Next meassure withyour DMM, (What, you haven't got one, betta go and buy one) it should show a reading of at least .5 volt or higher

Next connect all the leads from the side of each copper pipe, to the Zinc nail, by the aligator clips.

The last cell is where the Negative is taken up from.
Place the Zinc nail into the middle of the tube just like you did with all the rest.

Now get your DMM and meassure between Pos and Neg of the EER.
Surprise, there is 1.7 volts for a 7 cell tube setup, but this is NOT ENOUGH.

Grab a cup of water, (the stuff you drink) and carefully poor it into each copper tube, allow it to spill around the 7 cells, it dosent matter, it will help.

Now look at your DMM, and VIOLLA, VOLTAGE is there.

You now have a shiny new Earth Battery, well it correctly is a EER

To get more voltage, just add more cells
To get GRUNT or AMPS, make each cell big and long.

Thats it folks.

jim

Movies will follow the rest of the still pics.
 


Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 31, 2009, 02:25:58 PM
OK you have got thus far.

1234 = All tubes are in the dirt, notice they are "empty"
           Go ahead and fill then up to the brim. Its OK, you won't wreck it, DO IT.

1235  = All tubes filled to the brim with dirt, arrrrrrr looks nice.

1236  = All tubes have Zinc nails poked in the tops of every cell, betterr here   
            than in your tyres.

1237  = 1st dmm meter reading looks awfully misleading dosent it.

Actually each cell should be giving out close to .5 volt or more, this depends where you live and what type of soil/dirt you play with. ;D

 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 31, 2009, 02:42:48 PM
Now for the very best bit, ha ha ha.

Place the DMM across the ney EER setup, Pos to Pos and Neg to Neg.
OOOOOOh it came to 1.7volts, hmmm (Its OK, stop worring) shhhh dont tell any one, I got worried tooo he he.

Now get the water, ohhh fun fun fun time, water and dirt makes MUD, whakkkkooo

Add the water, tip it onto the nice shiny new copper pipes and the dirt, GO MAKE A MESS, it's OK, the water will drain away, take my word for it. lol

BOBS YOUR UNKLE, now look at the DMM, is it showing VOLTAGE? It should be.
Whacko mate, now you can hook a White LED accross it, and get blinded by the output.

CONGRADULATIONS    you have now got a shiny new EER, love it and take care of it.

NOW, this is important.
Copy all this down and keep it in a safe place, web sites have a habit of being altered or infected by humanbeings who like to cause trouble, some people just love doing this, they are nasty and horrible, so you have my permission to copy to your Hard Drive or a CD for back up purposes everything I have posted here.


GO FOR IT, and spread the word that JESUS LOVES YOU AND IS COMING BACK VERY SOON.

1240 = 1st readings by a DMM
1243 = Adding water and viola, voltage jumps bigtime watch the videos
1245 = See what 1 White LED can dooooo
1246 = LED attatched to fence, ooooohh free energy forever. ;D

 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 31, 2009, 02:50:51 PM
OK i Doki, time for the movies, grab a coka kola, a coffee, or a cuppa Teeeee
Don't forget a Bikkie (cookie for the overseas mob). :D

How to tape the copper pipe, the KEY to making it al work. ;)


Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 31, 2009, 02:56:10 PM
The last video showed you how to cover the pipe, here is another one, just in case you missed it ha ha.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 31, 2009, 03:02:47 PM
Here is another video, sorry about the shortness chums, download allowances.

Water adds voltage, the cells must be damp, but if too wet the voltage goes down.
Watch the DMM display, amazine to see it the first time.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 31, 2009, 03:09:06 PM
Ha Ha wasnt that last video great, well if you are into EER it is he he.

The voltage gets a bit along here also.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 31, 2009, 03:14:33 PM
Oooops, I missed 2 cells, so it was back to playing with water and splashing it all over the place, well just a bit different to rain fall he he.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on July 31, 2009, 03:24:04 PM
So how high did it go?
well lets take a peek shall we.

Before we doo, just think about this a moment, it has been thought by many people who have tried to make a series earth battery (EER), and have failed, you have seen it is possible to make one, so go on, get the stuff and do it.

Go to the Joule Thief forum and see what we all have done there, and use this Series EER earth energy recovery setup to power up 400 LEDS.

Or use the JT to make 600volts or well, try for 1000 volts, I have seen it done.
NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE.

Here is the last video.
I will bid you all hooroo

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on July 31, 2009, 03:50:11 PM
So how high did it go?
well lets take a peek shall we.

Before we doo, just think about this a moment, it has been thought by many people who have tried to make a series earth battery (EER), and have failed, you have seen it is possible to make one, so go on, get the stuff and do it.

Go to the Joule Thief forum and see what we all have done there, and use this Series EER earth energy recovery setup to power up 400 LEDS.

Or use the JT to make 600volts or well, try for 1000 volts, I have seen it done.
NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE.

Here is the last video.
I will bid you all hooroo

jim

HOOROOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME WORK
Thank you so much for sharing all of that with us. You ROCK!

Again thank you so much for sharing your Hard work.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on July 31, 2009, 03:54:26 PM
Checked the EB this morning around 8:40, the readings were 799mv 128ua. There is a slight drizzle of rain, I was expecting to see the current drop back to normal levels 40u-60u range but its still high. The voltage has really dropped.

@Jeanna, I see now it's the carrier wave I should be looking at, thanks. Have to take the scope out when it gets drier. I'm not sure where the .983 volts went, it seems to dissipate quickly. I keep thinking of how geothermal heating works where the cold pipes attract the thermal heat from the surrounding warm earth and try to balance. Could be a similar effect going on.

@Nightshade, Neat to see that different setups still seem to produce about the same voltage and readings.

@Electricme, :) Ok now I have to grab another coffee. Wow! great work. Looks like what I'm missing is getting freaky with the EB and wrapping it in Saran wrap, then adding some water. Thank you for the step by step guide, it is very helpful.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 31, 2009, 07:59:38 PM
Jim:

Excellent work my friend!!!!!  Also, and equally important, very excellent presentation and tutorial on how to do this!!!

As I mentioned to you before, I want to try this using carbon and magnesium...IF I can find suitable shapes and supplies.

As you can see from this chart:

Metals and Soils
Potential Differences of metals
(Soil Galvanic series) 
Metal
... Potential
V Cu/CuSO4 electrode
Magnesium (pure) -1.75
Magnesium (alloy) -1.60
Zinc -1.10
Alluminum (alloy) -1.05
Aluminum (pure) -0.8
Steel (clean) -0.50 to -0.80
Steel (rusted) -0.20 to -0.50
Cast Iron -0.50
Lead -0.50
Steel (concrete) -0.20
Copper -0.20
Brass -0.20
Bronze -0.20
Steel (mill scale) -0.20
Cast iron (high silicon) -0.20
Carbon +0.30
Graphite +0.30
Coke +0.30
Notes:
Non-uniform conditions at node surface 

As you see, this would mean over 2 volts per cell x 7 cells = 14 volts!!!  If your copper is positive in your set-up, this would mean my tubes should be carbon and then I need mag. rods for the center taps.

From the chart posted above, we can also use other metals that are as far away from each other on the scale above even if I can't find the carbon and mag.


Very nice job, I think this is just the beginning Jim and man, you could fill your yard with these and run your heater.

Great work!

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on July 31, 2009, 10:17:24 PM
Hi everybody,
I have taken advantage of a sublimely cool morning to play outside with my earth battery, and my stubblefield generator which I added to it.
And I managed to take a movie shot in AVI format that is 300k. So, I will post that now.

I checked the connections of the NS generator with the EB a couple of ways.
I admit to a silly third one too.
1 the silly one, I saw the copper of the "5" wire and I connected it up with the 15' wire to the south zinc side of the EB and wondered why nothing at all happened. I am glad I did this. I am glad to know there was nothing there .
But then I poured some water on the NS#9. I suppose it is good enough to show since all the readings since then have been with wet ground around NS#9.

The frequency is higher with NS#9 attached.
1- Just the steel "6" wire and the 2 antennas.
BUT THEN...
2- I twisted the 5,6 together for a center tap, and connected that to the
15' wire that connects to the
zinc probe which in turn is
15' from the meter.
On the other end there are carbon rods 15' to the north.

so maybe like this Starting from the South:

NS#9 twisted centertap_____zinc probe_____Meter_____C

Here is a movie of the whole wave of the NS#9 connected to the twisted 5,6 as described in 2 above.

jeanna
edit
I have also added a drawing so you can figure out what the heck I am talking about! :D
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on August 01, 2009, 01:44:13 AM
With 7 of them you should have had around 5 volts. You can also use lacquer spray paint instead of tape if wanted. Also liquid tape will work better as its made for underground splicing and doesnt deteroriate as fast as tape. If you wrap a small plastic piece on the bottom of the pipe leaving a gap for the water to run out it will keep it damp as the water stays on top of the plastic. I think when you are using an external cathode the copper pipe has to have the dirt packed down good. From what Im thinking its better to have the cathode in the middle of the pipe with a close tolerance between the two. But maybe not. This would seem to make it act like a one layer capacitor. Earth capacitors have higher ratings. BUT!! I noticed that DreamThinkBuilders cathode was bolted on and insulated. Im curious if he packed dirt in it first before putting it into the ground. If not he had some good voltages if it was a single piece and not part of a series.
 I fashioned mine this way. It saved clips plus there is no dissimilar metal problems.  I dont recommend all thread or any blunt metal. Its a pain if you want close tolerances driving it down the center of the copper. You could grind it down to make it easier if you have a grinder. 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 01, 2009, 01:46:09 AM
This is  a pic of the NS#9 which is moist and in barely moist  ground with
the probe on the secondary and
the clip on the fe10.

I got no voltage reading from the secondary as usual. I actually want to remove the sleeve and wind it directly onto the primary. But for now, this is showing a good amount of activity and large spikes. well 29mv spikes.
This is still attached to the zinc nail etc as before, too.

====
@nightlife
welcome! I am glad to see you here!
====

jeanna
edit
I will add a drawing of how this is hooked up. thousand words...
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on August 01, 2009, 02:21:41 AM
@IotaYodi, The center of the EB is empty, I didn't have any dirt in there. I wrapped the bottom portion of the copper pipe with saran wrap and did a measurement but had no voltage at all, so I'll have to fill it with dirt.

@Bill, That is a great chart I'll add those to my notes.

@Electricme, would it be possible to have a single negative pole and multiple positive poles? Since the copper pipe is isolated from the others by the tape. Place each copper pipe piece in a plastic ice cube tray filled with dirt and have the negative pole external? With all the lightning it hasn't been very good weather here to test the idea.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 01, 2009, 03:20:09 AM
I just tried a quick and dirty experiment just for the heck of it.  I strung about 20 feet of fine copper wire I salvaged from a monitor I took apart a while back from a tree in my front yard down to my EER (Earth Energy Receiver) set-up.  First, I tried it with the carbon rods and got hardly anything...then I hooked it to my meter and the mag. block.

Well here is the interesting thing I do not understand.  I also got almost nothing here as well but, since I had quickly burned off the insulation on the wire (it was like mag wire) I thought it might not be a clean connection so I reached over to hold it on the probe with my fingers.  As soon as I did...the DMM started climbing!!  In about 10 seconds it was up to 1/2 a volt. (.5 volt)  As soon as I removed my finger, it dropped down to almost nothing again.  I still thought it was a bad connection so I cleaned up the wire end better and still....same thing unless I held it, only then would it build up the volts.

I wonder if it is because anywhere I have read about the antenna systems with an earth ground set-up, they always used diodes, germanium diodes to be exact.  I happen to have about 20 of those here.  I wonder if my body was acting as a diode in the circuit somehow?

Most of the set-ups I have seen used about 100 feet of antenna (mag) wire so I did not expect much on this try anyway.  I will make a video of this if I get the time but, anyone have any theories as to why this might be?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 01, 2009, 03:35:18 AM
I guess since you were grounding the antenna, you were some kind of doide. The current from the wire/antenna and the meter both had to go through you to the ground?

What happened if you let go of the antenna? and you were just touching the meter?

I am thinking it could also be skin effect crossing you where the contact with the wire alone was not so good but through you it went right up to the antenna.

So, maybe not a diode but just a good connection?

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on August 01, 2009, 04:02:57 AM
Quote
@IotaYodi, The center of the EB is empty, I didn't have any dirt in there. I wrapped the bottom portion of the copper pipe with saran wrap and did a measurement but had no voltage at all, so I'll have to fill it with dirt.
Your meter was showing .90v unless I read it wrong.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 01, 2009, 04:15:21 AM
I guess since you were grounding the antenna, you were some kind of doide. The current from the wire/antenna and the meter both had to go through you to the ground?

What happened if you let go of the antenna? and you were just touching the meter?

I am thinking it could also be skin effect crossing you where the contact with the wire alone was not so good but through you it went right up to the antenna.

So, maybe not a diode but just a good connection?

jeanna

Jeanna:

I tried several different things including just holding the meter probe and no antenna.....nothing.  Just the antenna wire on the probe...nothing.  With me holding the wire, which was well stripped of insulating lacquer by this time and wrapped around the probe tip, and it climbed from .02 volts to .5 volts in about 10 seconds. 

That's half a volt from a very poor antenna.  The best way to do this from what I have read is to get a helium balloon and send the wire up a good distance.  I may wait until I can try that way.  If I get the same results, then I guess I will look into using the diodes that I bought for this experiment a while back.

It was just a very confusing (easy for that to happen to me) result that was not expected.  I really thought I would just get like .005 volts or something as my antenna wire was very short and not that high from the ground. (about 6 foot.)

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 01, 2009, 05:13:51 AM
Hi everybody,

Here is another tiny video
The Stubblefield coil was set up essentially as this afternoon but in an effort to make it more ignition coil like, I connected the fe10 to the secondary while the other connection of the 5,6 stayed twisted together and connected to the wire leading to the zinc nail then on to the meter as pictured above.

=====
EDIT for clarity:
I am measuring this in the usual place which is between the carbon probes and the zinc probes.
What I have added is a stubblefield coil to see if it will act as an antenna.
It seems to me that it does.
However the DMM today was 1.02v which is a little higher than usual but not a lot.
I will keep this antenna on for a while if it is all right with everyone.
I realize this makes my set-up very different from the usual, but it seems more sensitive to me, so I like it.

In fairness to this project, I will get more speaker wire and make a normal copper and zinc pair so my results are in line with normal set-up.
My apologies for this diversion.
end edit.
=====

I believe the mv went from 50 to 69 or maybe they were already 69mv There was no change in frequency, but there might have been some rise in mvolts.
The movement of the wave is deliberate and rhythmical.

Have a look.

188k avi format
69mV peak to peak.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 01, 2009, 05:27:01 AM
@All,

I have just had a PM from Weri812 which makes very interresting reading.

I need to thank Weri for bringing this to my attention, thanks Weri.

It seems someone else has done what I have done before and it is documented.

I am not the originator of the Series Earth battery, although I wish I was lol.

But I'm glad I got to build this and it does work and works well, but what I am curious about is this.

I and others here, well back on Bill Joule thief thread, and I think on the Stubblefield threads, how come no one has been able to make a series earth battery before now.
I have tried several times with different metals (as others have done) and did not succeed, until now.

I have also searched the net (as others no doubt have done) without any obvious answer of a series earth battery, only some hints to it's existence, which made me even more determined.

I have mentioned this in the past to several people who know me, also I have read where others have done their own research and came up with the notion it couldn't be done.

I also have made previous experiments with series earth rods, and got nowhere at all, but I thought their must be a easy solution.

So what happened? well I suppose it is a bit like Tesla's work and Stubblefields work, the methods were lost or deeply buried, then others came along and read about this or that, they researched and they managed to figure out what to do, and did it.

So I can't make any claim for being the first to make a series cell power unit or cell from the ground, but, I'm glad I made a series EER system.

Here is the link Weri812 sent to me, and I went there and checked, and sure enough, in full colour is a system of series earth cells.

  http://www.4shared.com/file/92366887/ad3b1eb6/Free_Energy_-_Free_electricity_From_The_Earth.html

I also read deeper and can see an article on a capacitor setup in the earth, is this related to Mica Capacitor energy that Tesla managed to do.
This looks very interresting, also.

My own method is very similar to theirs, I have used electrical tape.
They have used paint and a plastic cup or a plastic sheet or something like this.

I also have used one different metal in my first successful series experiment, which I don't see there, which reverses the polarity configuration.
   
So why didn't all my series experiments to make a series battery work?

It's a bit like this, if you think of the earth energy flowing around in a sea like manner, then think about a 12v car battery, If you pull all the internals out of the car battery, still connected together, and put this same assembly into another open box/container, without the barrier that makes up the individual cells, whats going to happen?
The whole thing has just become just one huge big cell.
The energy is Null-ed Out.

So it stood to reason, at least to me anyway, to insulate each individual cell by insulating it with electrical tape. Poking the tape up inside the copper cell fixes the sharp edge at the bottom of the tube, (and deals with any water when it rains) so it wont damage the tape as you put the cell in the earth.

Why did I use a Zinc nail, well its the easiest to get hold of, and you buy them in packets, so there is no cutting from a big long length, plus others here had used Zinc roofing nails so since I hadn't used zinc before, why not try it?

Now I see by Bills post today on his JT site, of a metal table, that Gold has the best recommendation, ha ha, too ex pensieve for this kid.


So that's how I did it, it was a simple fix to a problem that held back everyone.

It worked, but I am happy that Weri did bring this to my attention, now, is there anyone out there who has any more info of any pre - existing series earth batteries.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 01, 2009, 05:58:04 AM
@Bill

I have noticed this effect with the 8" disk EB setup I made about 3-4 months ago, this is the one I took all the photos of with the cro.

I added a 8meter long aerial to it, just for something to d (and I was courious lol) and I found, if it touch the bridge diode, the LED accross the diode bridge go on.


Sooo get a LED, and touch its leg against the copper wire, have the DMM connected in parallel with it, then with you other hand, raise it higher, you should see the voltage go up, and the LED glowing.

jim

I just tried a quick and dirty experiment just for the heck of it.  I strung about 20 feet of fine copper wire I salvaged from a monitor I took apart a while back from a tree in my front yard down to my EER (Earth Energy Receiver) set-up.  First, I tried it with the carbon rods and got hardly anything...then I hooked it to my meter and the mag. block.

Well here is the interesting thing I do not understand.  I also got almost nothing here as well but, since I had quickly burned off the insulation on the wire (it was like mag wire) I thought it might not be a clean connection so I reached over to hold it on the probe with my fingers.  As soon as I did...the DMM started climbing!!  In about 10 seconds it was up to 1/2 a volt. (.5 volt)  As soon as I removed my finger, it dropped down to almost nothing again.  I still thought it was a bad connection so I cleaned up the wire end better and still....same thing unless I held it, only then would it build up the volts.

I wonder if it is because anywhere I have read about the antenna systems with an earth ground set-up, they always used diodes, germanium diodes to be exact.  I happen to have about 20 of those here.  I wonder if my body was acting as a diode in the circuit somehow?

Most of the set-ups I have seen used about 100 feet of antenna (mag) wire so I did not expect much on this try anyway.  I will make a video of this if I get the time but, anyone have any theories as to why this might be?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 01, 2009, 06:36:30 AM
@ Altrez

Giday there mate, thanks for all the most kind remarks, they are very welcome.

HOOROOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME WORK
Thank you so much for sharing all of that with us. You ROCK!

Again thank you so much for sharing your Hard work.

-Altrez
Al, you are more than welcome. :D

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 01, 2009, 06:40:08 AM
@ DreamThinkBuild,

Thank you for your remarks also,

Checked the EB this morning around 8:40, the readings were 799mv 128ua. There is a slight drizzle of rain, I was expecting to see the current drop back to normal levels 40u-60u range but its still high. The voltage has really dropped.

@Jeanna, I see now it's the carrier wave I should be looking at, thanks. Have to take the scope out when it gets drier. I'm not sure where the .983 volts went, it seems to dissipate quickly. I keep thinking of how geothermal heating works where the cold pipes attract the thermal heat from the surrounding warm earth and try to balance. Could be a similar effect going on.

@Nightshade, Neat to see that different setups still seem to produce about the same voltage and readings.

@Electricme, :) Ok now I have to grab another coffee. Wow! great work. Looks like what I'm missing is getting freaky with the EB and wrapping it in Saran wrap, then adding some water. Thank you for the step by step guide, it is very helpful.
Yes, the easier instructions are to follow makes for better and easier to do replications.
I like your avatar. ;D

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 01, 2009, 07:06:48 AM
@IotaYodi,

Thats right, I had just over 5 volts which is a pritty good effort.

With 7 of them you should have had around 5 volts. You can also use lacquer spray paint instead of tape if wanted. Also liquid tape will work better as its made for underground splicing and doesnt deteroriate as fast as tape. If you wrap a small plastic piece on the bottom of the pipe leaving a gap for the water to run out it will keep it damp as the water stays on top of the plastic. I think when you are using an external cathode the copper pipe has to have the dirt packed down good. From what Im thinking its better to have the cathode in the middle of the pipe with a close tolerance between the two. But maybe not. This would seem to make it act like a one layer capacitor. Earth capacitors have higher ratings. BUT!! I noticed that DreamThinkBuilders cathode was bolted on and insulated. Im curious if he packed dirt in it first before putting it into the ground. If not he had some good voltages if it was a single piece and not part of a series.
 I fashioned mine this way. It saved clips plus there is no dissimilar metal problems.  I dont recommend all thread or any blunt metal. Its a pain if you want close tolerances driving it down the center of the copper. You could grind it down to make it easier if you have a grinder.
Im thinking the same thoughts as you are, about types of insulation.

But I havent come across "liquid" tape before, do you have a web addres I could go and take a look at please?

There must be many many types that one could use to make this setup, as well as many different types of metal tubeing, as I have already discovered by my first aluminium tube setup.

jim

 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 01, 2009, 07:15:12 AM
@ DreamThinkBuild,

@IotaYodi, The center of the EB is empty, I didn't have any dirt in there. I wrapped the bottom portion of the copper pipe with saran wrap and did a measurement but had no voltage at all, so I'll have to fill it with dirt.

@Bill, That is a great chart I'll add those to my notes.

@Electricme, would it be possible to have a single negative pole and multiple positive poles? Since the copper pipe is isolated from the others by the tape. Place each copper pipe piece in a plastic ice cube tray filled with dirt and have the negative pole external? With all the lightning it hasn't been very good weather here to test the idea.

Hmmmmm probably, it would work, I'm refering my answer to the last question, as there would be more cross sectional area exposed to the negative, but I really don't know, as I havent tried this.

If you make upa egg tray with dirt and try this, the capacity (amps) are limited by its physical size, it is best to do this experiment outside, as that is where the flowing aeather fields are.

For the top questin, you also need another item, an electrode so the energy can be accessed.


jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 01, 2009, 07:57:52 AM
@ Jim:

Quote from Jim: "Now I see by Bills post today on his JT site, of a metal table, that Gold has the best recommendation, ha ha, too expensieve for this kid."

Jim:

I posted that chart here today too, one page back.  Gold is not on my list that I posted.  That must have been the chart posted by MK1. The best materials on my list are, you guessed it, carbon and graphite.  I just wanted folks to see that they have the highest potential, and also they can figure out what they should get, give or take, using other materials they may have laying about.

That EB system with the red paint in the post above also turned up in our old EB topic research.  I didn't think too much about it back then as I thought that the materials might degrade due to galvanic reactions.  Maybe they don't.

Also, there is some guy on youtube that made a video about his "earth battery" (His term)  made in an ice tray, sitting inside on his table. (Not outside in the earth)  He reports getting 12 volts from his series hook-up, but no telluric currents in his kitchen and he also reports hardly any power at all from it.  Now that one I am convinced is most, if not all, galvanic. I don't think he lights even 1 led with it.  Now see, your set-up lit that very brightly with no help from a cap or JT circuit so, here is the thing....we know leds will light with high voltage but that is not what you were doing so, this tells me you ALSO must have good mA's to get that to fire up like that.  Now this, I have never seen before from a series set-up like that, not anywhere, not ever.
Until you did it.

I remember you posting about touching your bridge and the led lighting up. (now that you reminded me, ha ha)  Your antenna was longer than mine, and mine was just cobbled together in like 5 minutes.  I need to do a better job of it next time and use a much longer piece of wire, and mount it much higher.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 01, 2009, 11:24:27 AM
@Bill,

Thanks Bill,

@ Jim:

That EB system with the red paint in the post above also turned up in our old EB topic research.  I didn't think too much about it back then as I thought that the materials might degrade due to galvanic reactions.  Maybe they don't.

Also, there is some guy on youtube that made a video about his "earth battery" (His term)  made in an ice tray, sitting inside on his table. (Not outside in the earth)  He reports getting 12 volts from his series hook-up, but no telluric currents in his kitchen and he also reports hardly any power at all from it.  Now that one I am convinced is most, if not all, galvanic. I don't think he lights even 1 led with it.  Now see, your set-up lit that very brightly with no help from a cap or JT circuit so, here is the thing....we know leds will light with high voltage but that is not what you were doing so, this tells me you ALSO must have good mA's to get that to fire up like that.  Now this, I have never seen before from a series setup like that, not anywhere, not ever.
Until you did it.

I remember you posting about touching your bridge and the led lighting up. (now that you reminded me, ha ha)  Your antenna was longer than mine, and mine was just cobbled together in like 5 minutes.  I need to do a better job of it next time and use a much longer piece of wire, and mount it much higher.

Bill

I knew I had see this somewhere before, years ago, back in the stubblefield days, but it wasn't in the web address weriy provided, and I didn't think much of it then, well, we were stubblefielding then, I was looking through a HHO web site and I think I saw it there, but its too long ago to be sure.

Actually, I think you just might have stumbled on why none has even thought to replicate it, the article says to use "red paint", so what comes immediately to mind? paint scratches, so the paint barrier is broken, no-one wants to scratch paint, so what happens? people simply don't  replicate it.

Bill I think you provided the answer without realising it.

It's quite dark outside just now, and the LED is not on.
I went outside, and discovered one of the Zinc lead clips had earthed out, simply pulling it up a smidgen fixed it. LED back to working.

Jeanna mentioned she gives her setup a drink a water, so I did the same, the LED is blinding bright, hope it doesn't blow.


Thanks Bill

 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on August 01, 2009, 01:17:37 PM

Jim, we'll probably never who did this first...but the fact you came up with it on your own places you among those who did.

Your great accomplishment still stands tall in my eyes.

Regards...

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on August 01, 2009, 03:44:05 PM
@electricme or others.
Liquid tape can be found in most hardware stores or electrical supply house. Common item for electricians. Never used the spray type but it may be faster to apply.
http://www.plastidip.com/home_solutions/Liquid_Tape_-_Electrical_Insulation
Title: Re: (My Basic Cu, Fe/zn) Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 01, 2009, 10:16:55 PM
Hey Cap-z-ro, wanna join us? It is really easy!

@all,
As promised, I soldered some hook-up wire onto a 7" long copper pipe  and a dipped nail. = (cu+, zn-)
I made a bunch of videos, but the 25hz frequency is just off from the 12fps of the camera. At least I thing that is what is going on. There is an extreme moire effect with any movement today. So, I guess I'll keepem, but only upload stills. Not too many people want to see the videos, so it is not worth it for a not very good video.

I got over 0.8vdc on this beginning setup. I am glad to see this. Hookup wire is about 14 gauge, so all the amps should be coming in too.  ;D yeah, right!

Here they are
Oh, their names tell the frequency and voltage etc.
The last one which says 2.5Mhz is 2 waves, so it is really 5Mhz. The pic on that is that smooooth wave. I thought this was a lot more interesting.

OK day 1 on my basic EB

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on August 02, 2009, 01:46:48 AM

" Hey Cap-z-ro, wanna join us? It is really easy!"

Ha Jeanna...you're either stealing my thunder of psychic.

This very afternoon I planted and watered my wacky idea.

I metered it about 2 hours later and it read .5 vdc and started dropping as soon as I placed the probes on the terminals.

It remains at .3 vdc.

What I did was take a 3 1/2" high x 1 1/2" wide  cap with a bare aluminum jacket...wrapped around it is a green iron garden wire coil with both ends free and unattached above the soil in a ceramic flower pot on the kitchen floor .

I hava another cap of similar size...the alum jacket on this one is painted.

I am considering whether or not to remove the paint before wrappping and planting that one.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 02, 2009, 04:56:44 AM
@Cap-z-ro,
You took a capacitor and wrapped a wire around it?...
pretty interesting idea.

Now Since I finally made a 'standard" setup, and it was fresh this morning, I took more measurements this evening.

Using the Cu+ and Zn- probes which are about 9 feet altogether, 4 1/2 feet of wire each to meter in center...
0.820vdc

Here are some pix of that.
Again the name of the pic identifies the measurements.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 02, 2009, 10:53:09 AM
@Cap-Z-ro

Jim, we'll probably never who did this first...but the fact you came up with it on your own places you among those who did.

Your great accomplishment still stands tall in my eyes.

Regards...
Thanks Cap-Z-ro,

I just did a bit of thinking, took a long time though :D , but credit should be given to the people who first did it, ages ago, not me.

But I appreciate your words

Actually, this afternoon I was thinking about pressing some PVC tubing into service, (just a thought mind you), line the inside with a metal sheet and put a different metal in it as the second electrode.   

jim

 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 02, 2009, 02:37:27 PM
@Jeanna,
Those scope images of yours are much much more clear now, well done.

I can even read it properly now  :D I think you are masking out the outside light, it's very good.



@All, HELP.
My 7 series cell setup is failing.

Don't know what hapenning, the output has dropped and I don't know why.

This afternoon, I removed the Zinc center electrodes, replaced them with new ones and made new individual readings of each cell, not connected to each other.

Here are my readings, all open circuit, over about 4 hours.

Cell1      Cell2      Cell3     Cell4      Cell5      Cell6        Cell7 replace zinc eltro
o.885v   0.915v    0.847v   0.888v    0.900v    0.858v     0.622v    2PM   5.915v
0.898v   0.945v    0.858v   0.902v    0.926v    0.876v     0.939v    3PM   6.344v
1.001v   1.008v    0.876v   0.977v    0.967v    0.961v     0.958v    4PM   6.748v
1.001v   1.103v    0.874v   0.981v    0.965v    0.982v     0.953v    5PM   6.859v
1.007v   1.007v    0.872v   0.975v    0.962v    0.984v     0.938v    6PM   6.745v

With all these above figures, I should be getting the voltage as seen    ABOVE or very close to it, but it's awful. :o

But, having connected ALL the cells in series, and the DMM shows I only have 3.4 volts, this is no good, it is still working as a series setup, but, I have a leakage somewhere. :o :o

It is currently 8:33pm 2.5 hours later, 7 cells showing 2.95volts, no load.

I will try a Joule Thief on it shortly and see what happens.
The 1.2v NiMH cell is at .52volts which is too low to run it.

The NiMH is very slowly charging at 0.17Ma and has reached 1.044 volts.

Since replacing the Zinc electrode did not improve the situation, I might have to dig the 7 cells up, and see whats happening with the copper tubes, and try to relocate or re orientate them.

I suspect energy is leaking from beneath the cells or the electrical tape is allowing volts to pass by the tube sides, we shall see what the morrow brings.

My nerves are bad, gotta watch it. :-X

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: oscar on August 02, 2009, 03:19:07 PM
......, I have a leakage somewhere. :o :o .....

Hi electricme,
first of all thanks for posting the details about your series setup.

I also started experimenting along those lines (rod in tube cells) and never succeeded in serializing due to "leakage". I saw the voltage going up when putting my cells in series, but additional cells only gave approx. 20 % gain to the total voltage. Never been able to achieve the full 80 to 100% addition,
until you did it and explained it and the document of weri
http://www.4shared.com/file/92366887/ad3b1eb6/Free_Energy_-_Free_electricity_From_The_Earth.html
was posted.

However, I am now in the process of taking all cells out of the earth (in my case a sand heap left over from building), putting now each cell in a separate bottle filled with soil/sand (tried plastic and glass bottles, both work).
I think that is a good idea, as it seems to work and there is no leakage possible and you don't have to insulate the pipes with tape, as the bottle serves as the insulator.
Can put the array of bottles anywhere you like (on a table ...), it still works.

I am convinced (but may be wrong) that its just the interaction of the earth magnetic field with the dissimilar metals and the soil (I use sifted sand, moistened with water and vibrate the bottles while dripping water over the sand in the bottles, so that it gets really dens and solid)

Thanks for everything.

PS But must admit that I am only measuring open circuit voltage, so am not sure how much current there would be available from a "desktop EER".
You on the other hand could compare it directly with your system in the ground, hint ...,  hint ...,

edit: no metal (electrode) should be allowed to touch the bottle. Do not push electrodes fully down to contact the bottle base. All sides of the rods and tubes must be surrounded by soil/sand.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on August 02, 2009, 03:30:16 PM
Remove a cell and take the dirt out. Take sandpaper and sand the copper till its shiny. Put back in the ground without rod or dirt. Put a new rod in the ground next to it. Check it.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 02, 2009, 07:36:55 PM
Good morning everybody,

Wanna see some more pix?

Yes jim, thanks. The sun was in a really good place in the morning yesterday and I avoided high sun later on. Today the sun was up.
@Altrez... I am finding that if I set my camera to 2Mpx and stand away then seriously crop I can sometimes get such a good picture I don't even need to enhance. But the sun must be at a low angle, or there is too much glare.

OK my friends... here we go .

Today the volts are down a little.
The main wave is apparent at 125hz and the highest vibration I see today is um 2.27Mhz.

 I wish someone else would join me in this excellent endeavor.
I am only one of us, and this plan will only work if we all take part.
And as close to daily as possible.
It takes very little time when the probes are in the same place as they must be, and the wires are ready for clips. Really it does.

Morning pictures from today.
Plain Cu+, Zn- probes about 9 feet apart.

jeanna

edit
here is a link to next door at the stubblefield bifilar thread. I think it might be better to keep these separate, but I cannot resist showing them to you.
I really think they are exciting.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4455.msg194991#msg194991 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4455.msg194991#msg194991)

I also just realized that I should be identifying these by the top number in the pic which is the resolution of the screen.
Maybe I will not change it though.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 02, 2009, 08:08:28 PM
@ Oscar:

With all due respect, if it is sitting on a table and not buried in the earth, in my opinion it would not be an EER.  If your sand pile was above the ground level, that too would be no different than sitting on your table.  I believe you have to be in the ground to intercept these waves and vibrations of various frequency.

Since no one, to my knowledge, really knows what is going on, anyone can feel free to disagree with me.  To move from galvanic to gaining some decent power, in all of my experiments my electrodes had to be buried and aligned properly in the earth.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 02, 2009, 08:13:38 PM
Jim:
I like your PVC idea.  As a matter of fact, think about this, if you lined the inside with one type of metal and the outside of the tube with a dissimilar metal and buried it in the earth, not only might you have an EER but it is also a capacitor.

There is a youtube video where a guy makes a huge capacitor out of a 5 gallon plastic bucket by lining the inside with foil and the outside with foil.  He charged it up with a Vandegraph and got some huge sparks out of it.  This is very similar to the film canister capacitors that have been posted on youtube as well.

This might be very interesting as not only is it creating a potential, but storing it as well.

Lots of stuff to explore here.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on August 02, 2009, 10:35:09 PM

This am my wacky earth jacketed cap fell to .01 vdc and slowly climbed back up to .02...so I uprooted it.

Since it was buried in aerated potting soil I dumped that out and filled the ceramic pot with moist dirt from my basement/celler.

I found this piece of alum screen backed on one side with plactic...I wrapped that around the cap plastic facing outward, and taped it with that new painters green masking tape and planted it...tamped down the dirt all around and added water...and boy did it taste great!

That was my supper...just kidding.

I took the inside green garden wire end and connected it to the negative cap terminal...within an hour I metered it and got .18 vdc.

I took the positive meter probe off the cap and stuck it in the dirt a few inches from the cap and it read .13.

I think I'll have to consider that a while, and wait for another 'inspiration'.

Regards...

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on August 03, 2009, 01:27:29 AM
Ive noticed quite a few people here having voltage drops. For about the past 2 or 3 weeks mine has dropped down between 60 and 65v. Normally it was in the 80 to 90,s. We have had a lot of rain the past month so I assume that's the reason. Anyone still getting 80,s or 90,s? If so is it dry? 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 03, 2009, 01:39:56 AM
Mine has been in the .9v's for a week now. And the new one has never dipped below .8v.

Just today after I soaked a new component which was very nearby, did it go down.
Mostly my 9 foot Cu+Zn- is in the middle .8v
But on a daily basis either EER could go down to .6v. IF it does, I do 2 things to check.
1- Touch and squeeze the connections which may have become loose,
2- Add water and wait one hour.
Adding the water will cause an immediate drop but after an hour voltage is restored.


jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cosmicfarmer on August 03, 2009, 02:36:57 AM
Yay first post for me  ;D

Allright I set up a worthless earth battery and tested it out, I know it wasn't entrained. I no longer have constant access to the earth, even though I easily could. Pipes in the ground are eye sores and get me yelled at, but I persist.  I set up this E-B on the sneak-tip and these are the videos I made. Nothing eye-raising. 

I also made a basic stubblefield, buried it, and probed it. On the video, the 4 connections from the large white wire are the diffrent ends of the stubblefield. It wasn't finished but my window of opportunity at the ground was short. Same signal as all my other grounds.  I think that whole area, even being in the mountains, was saturated with nasty grid vibes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si9pSset1_s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8U4_Ur5M64

3 foot copper north, 1 foot zinc south. As soon as I was finished with the experiment I had to unearth them. I know the magic in an earth receiver is letting it get entrained and observing it, but I could not leave these pipes in the ground.

One thing to notice though, is I had a rectifying capacitor (2 reversed diodes with common leg, to both sides of cap) to store the charge. Putting the ground on the - side before the diode reverse-charged my electrolytics .5 volts, and after the diode normal charged up to ~2 volts.

Also.  When I had the scope connected and was watching my circuit charge up, it took 40 seconds to get to ~2 volts. When I took the scope off but left the grounds alone, the circuit would not charge past .3 volts! As soon as I hook up the scope, up it goes. Scope alone did not charge the caps. Ground alone didn't get max charge. Both combined were necessary to bring the caps up to over 2 volts.

So, was this effect some sort of grid noise that the scope brought to the capacitor, which it rectified? (scope alone did no charging) or was this the ground energy being "monitored", and by the act of monitoring it, volts increased for me?   

The ground signal was about 3 volts 45 hz clean looking AC. I even turned off all my house power at the breaker except for the scope and it was still clean AC. My signal (oscope to finger) was about half a volt, same frequency AC as the ground, but inverted. My bio-signal was the same frequency as ground but inverted. Also there were complexities in the wave that reminded me of fractals... but my scope is too old. Also touching house ground would null my signal, and earth ground gave me more volts but reverse phase. Just watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l9MLULqC38

Anyway, I am still on the hunt of a living accommodation that lets me put some metal in the ground. When that happens I will have scope to ground 24/7 and webcam link for you.

Previously, I was at a place where I had about 6 ground rods of different metal in various places and I saw similar waveforms as the ones earlier in this thread. That ground was entrained. I have never repeated it since. I took no pictures so I guess it never happened (to you).  This was before I knew about the data collection en devour on this site. The frequency was in the Mhz and about 11 volts.

One thing to think about - I have had more success using ground antenna (one rod) then the zinc/copper pair. Anyway. I got more experimenting to do and will post something when I think its relevant.

in the mean time, peace out.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 03, 2009, 06:04:49 AM
kid had a borthday today, so i obtained more of those toy-twist-tie thingies.

i went ahead and plugged my large steel pipe back in parallel with them for extra current boost.

i now have 13 of my "experimental electrodes"
(+ a 2ft stainless steel pipe)
and 3 6"-square copper plates at the south end.

drawing 0.98v @ almost 6ma now.

if i can find a suitable substitute for these things i would like to make a field of hundreds of them. i think great current can be drawn this way, by connecting several more of them in parallel.

i can light up all of my 30 LEDs now.
caused my neighbor to ask what it was tonight !!!



Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: kamax on August 03, 2009, 06:42:26 AM
Hi,

I'm not sure if someone has posted this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwtMzI66fXo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwtMzI66fXo)
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 03, 2009, 06:54:20 AM
Hi Sm0ky2,
I am glad you are still here!

I have a request .
Please make me a drawing of this or really try to explain it.
How does one put a bunch of twist tie coils in parallel with a steel bar?

I am kinda new to this stuff. I know what parallel means etc.

I am only half joking, cuz I really cannot wrap my head around your setup.

I need to find his name. There was a guy. rex has his stuff. who wrapped a zillion little coils around nails and ran his whole house etc could have run his neighborhood... etc. He was ridiculed to his demise, of course, because he honestly though he could help save the world. Well... THEY showed him! [Those are the ones I feel the most sorry for. I mean the innocent ones.]

I assume you could use plastic coated copper, but you are using plastic coated steel. Perhaps this is something we are all missing. Stubblefield used iron. Hmm.

A drawing or a pic or a video whatever is easy for you.
Thanks a lot,

OK I have a couple of pix from tonight's trip to the Battery EER in the back yard.

Welcome CosmicFarmer
Your pics and input are most welcome, as are you.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 03, 2009, 07:00:55 AM

i just replaced my "experimental electrodes" with similar ones made from copper wire and got very little voltage (0.05v)

so my set-up only works with the differing metals. in my case it is steel wire vs copper.

i have not yet ruled out some sort of galvonic reaction in my particular set-up, at least for the voltages above 0.6 that i get from the standard "EB" arrangements i have made thus far.


umm.. i thought i described it thoroughly before, but ok..

"parallel" meaning all wires are connected to the negative terminal of the "EB"

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 03, 2009, 07:07:11 AM
in reference to the above video,
i scratched the oxidized layer off of a soda can, and placed my meter between the can and a piece of copper wire sitting on my desk.

reading:  0.5v

copper/alum battery,  i think this was invented by alejandro volta some 209yrs ago??
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 03, 2009, 07:25:26 AM
...

so my set-up only works with the differing metals. in my case it is steel wire vs copper.

...

"parallel" meaning all wires are connected to the negative terminal of the "EB"
So you twirled the wires and scraped the ends then you put one end of each of them into the ground and the other end of all of them together onto the copper probe?

Nothing extra is connected to the steel pipe? Only 30 of these things that are very small as things go maybe 1-2 inches total spiral length?

Then in between the 2 wires that connect the steel pipe to the copper with the expels you stuck a joule thief and you can light 30 leds (i am sure these are parallel)

Is this how you are doing this?

I do not think yours could be galvanic.
Just a tiny bit.
for some reason you need to have a touch of galvanic with all the magnetic earth currents to make the thing do work. But earth batteries are mostly not galvanic, I am sure of that.
(I am not talking about putting a plastic cup in the ground with electrodes in it. I am waiting to see about that.)

Thanks. please confirm my explanation.

jeanna

btw, my Cu or C ar both the pos side of my battery . the steel is the neg.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 03, 2009, 07:34:17 AM
ok i dont understand what you're saying..
i'll try again::

copper is the positive side of my battery. 3x   6-inch square copper plates tied to the + lead. (bottom end stuck in the ground)


the steel pipe and all the coiled steel wires are connected to the - lead. (bottom ends stuck in the ground)
between the + and - is placed the load. This is where the joule thief goes.

by themselves: (with respect to the copper lead)
2-ft stainless pipe gives me 0.68v max
2-inch coiled steel wire gives me 0.98v max



so far all my LEDs are light up across the transistor. if i connect ANYTHING to the secondary of the joule thief, the current draw is too much for the EB and all my LEDs go out. So, at this point the secondary of my JT is just open ended.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 03, 2009, 07:43:01 AM
Thank you Sm0ky2, I have it, now!  :D

I better get something to cover the steel wire I have so I can try this. I dunno, it just might be a breakthrough.

Thanks,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: kamax on August 03, 2009, 07:44:55 AM
in reference to the above video,
i scratched the oxidized layer off of a soda can, and placed my meter between the can and a piece of copper wire sitting on my desk.

reading:  0.5v

copper/alum battery,  i think this was invented by alejandro volta some 209yrs ago??
The guy on the video use earth to make his cells, volta use salt water. Sorry if my post don't help, i just want to help and try to build soon something between your earth battery and the cells on the video.

Here is how he build this little cells if someone is interested :  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oxanMmAgf0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oxanMmAgf0)

Maybe it works with steel too.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 03, 2009, 08:02:16 AM
Kamax:

I have never seen this before.  Thank you for posting it here.  I have no idea what is going on there with the metal and the concrete.  The meter shows 100 volts (just about) yet he is lighting 2 leds.  I would think those would have fried at that voltage.  I favorited it for further analysis.  I wonder how much power he is getting from this?

I can envision 55 gallon drums sized slices filled with cement stacked in my yard.  Very interesting concept.

Thanks again.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 03, 2009, 08:31:26 AM
volta originally used differing metals to create a voltage potential.

he later incorporated the use of salt-water to increase the current.

@ bill, i have now seen this done 3 different ways.
with concrete inside the aluminum cups.

with dirt inside the aluminum cups

and again, using the cups with the WAX still inside them.

my conclusion is that the copper and aluminum must be separated.  by what doesnt seem to matter.
ergo - concrete is performing the task of insulation.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 03, 2009, 08:51:51 AM
Smokey:

Thanks.  Do you have any video links to any of the other versions?  I would love to see these as I said, I have never run across this before.  Do you think the copper and or the other metal is being consumed during this type of reaction?  I had never really thought about cement as an insulator before but then, I learn something new here every day.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 03, 2009, 09:57:43 AM
@IotaYodi,

@electricme or others.
Liquid tape can be found in most hardware stores or electrical supply house. Common item for electricians. Never used the spray type but it may be faster to apply.
http://www.plastidip.com/home_solutions/Liquid_Tape_-_Electrical_Insulation
Thankyou for this particular item, I sent these people a email yesterday late, asking for a "sample", I havent heard back from them yet, well, if I don't ask, I will never know will I,lol.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 03, 2009, 10:25:58 AM
@ Oscar,

Very many many thanks to you, and thankyou for the post, you are very welcome to join us here if you wish to.

Hi electricme,
first of all thanks for posting the details about your series setup.

I also started experimenting along those lines (rod in tube cells) and never succeeded in serializing due to "leakage". I saw the voltage going up when putting my cells in series, but additional cells only gave approx. 20 % gain to the total voltage. Never been able to achieve the full 80 to 100% addition,
until you did it and explained it and the document of weri
http://www.4shared.com/file/92366887/ad3b1eb6/Free_Energy_-_Free_electricity_From_The_Earth.html
was posted.

However, I am now in the process of taking all cells out of the earth (in my case a sand heap left over from building), putting now each cell in a separate bottle filled with soil/sand (tried plastic and glass bottles, both work).
I think that is a good idea, as it seems to work and there is no leakage possible and you don't have to insulate the pipes with tape, as the bottle serves as the insulator.
Can put the array of bottles anywhere you like (on a table ...), it still works.

I am convinced (but may be wrong) that its just the interaction of the earth magnetic field with the dissimilar metals and the soil (I use sifted sand, moistened with water and vibrate the bottles while dripping water over the sand in the bottles, so that it gets really dens and solid)

Thanks for everything.

PS But must admit that I am only measuring open circuit voltage, so am not sure how much current there would be available from a "desktop EER".
You on the other hand could compare it directly with your system in the ground, hint ...,  hint ...,

edit: no metal (electrode) should be allowed to touch the bottle. Do not push electrodes fully down to contact the bottle base. All sides of the rods and tubes must be surrounded by soil/sand.

I think this series system needs much looking into, it certainly is an amazing EER system.
What you suggest above is very interresting, I will have to try this sometime, but if anyone is reading this, and was thinking of making their own EER, well I recomend anything just at the moment.

Oscar, I don't know if you have notice this, but sometimes the energy in my cells seem to disappear along the chain, then reappears, but if I measure the dead cell, it is actually alive, so I don't know, its a mystery to this kid lol.

Sorry about this late reply, I have been outside planting a new row of Aluminium outers with Copper inners, during this process, my next door neighbour decided to come for a look see, so I showed him my new baby 7 working, his eyes popped out of his head when he saw the HB LED working.
So after a huge explanation, all the whats/whys and hows, it was time to give my new ally 12 a drink, oops, I drowned them, too much water.

Oh well, I am learning this stuff.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 03, 2009, 10:44:31 AM
@Bill,
Thanks for the bucket idea, I must take a look for this.

Jim:
I like your PVC idea.  As a matter of fact, think about this, if you lined the inside with one type of metal and the outside of the tube with a dissimilar metal and buried it in the earth, not only might you have an EER but it is also a capacitor.

There is a youtube video where a guy makes a huge capacitor out of a 5 gallon plastic bucket by lining the inside with foil and the outside with foil.  He charged it up with a Vandegraph and got some huge sparks out of it.  This is very similar to the film canister capacitors that have been posted on youtube as well.

This might be very interesting as not only is it creating a potential, but storing it as well.

Lots of stuff to explore here.

Bill

I think we just scratched the surface here, theres a lot more to go.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 03, 2009, 11:16:45 AM
@ Cosmicfarmer,

Welcome to the thread.

Yay first post for me  ;D

Allright I set up a worthless earth battery and tested it out, I know it wasn't entrained. I no longer have constant access to the earth, even though I easily could. Pipes in the ground are eye sores and get me yelled at, but I persist.  I set up this E-B on the sneak-tip and these are the videos I made. Nothing eye-raising. 

I also made a basic stubblefield, buried it, and probed it. On the video, the 4 connections from the large white wire are the diffrent ends of the stubblefield. It wasn't finished but my window of opportunity at the ground was short. Same signal as all my other grounds.  I think that whole area, even being in the mountains, was saturated with nasty grid vibes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si9pSset1_s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8U4_Ur5M64

3 foot copper north, 1 foot zinc south. As soon as I was finished with the experiment I had to unearth them. I know the magic in an earth receiver is letting it get entrained and observing it, but I could not leave these pipes in the ground.

One thing to notice though, is I had a rectifying capacitor (2 reversed diodes with common leg, to both sides of cap) to store the charge. Putting the ground on the - side before the diode reverse-charged my electrolytics .5 volts, and after the diode normal charged up to ~2 volts.

Also.  When I had the scope connected and was watching my circuit charge up, it took 40 seconds to get to ~2 volts. When I took the scope off but left the grounds alone, the circuit would not charge past .3 volts! As soon as I hook up the scope, up it goes. Scope alone did not charge the caps. Ground alone didn't get max charge. Both combined were necessary to bring the caps up to over 2 volts.

So, was this effect some sort of grid noise that the scope brought to the capacitor, which it rectified? (scope alone did no charging) or was this the ground energy being "monitored", and by the act of monitoring it, volts increased for me?   

The ground signal was about 3 volts 45 hz clean looking AC. I even turned off all my house power at the breaker except for the scope and it was still clean AC. My signal (oscope to finger) was about half a volt, same frequency AC as the ground, but inverted. My bio-signal was the same frequency as ground but inverted. Also there were complexities in the wave that reminded me of fractals... but my scope is too old. Also touching house ground would null my signal, and earth ground gave me more volts but reverse phase. Just watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l9MLULqC38

Anyway, I am still on the hunt of a living accommodation that lets me put some metal in the ground. When that happens I will have scope to ground 24/7 and webcam link for you.

Previously, I was at a place where I had about 6 ground rods of different metal in various places and I saw similar waveforms as the ones earlier in this thread. That ground was entrained. I have never repeated it since. I took no pictures so I guess it never happened (to you).  This was before I knew about the data collection en devour on this site. The frequency was in the Mhz and about 11 volts.

One thing to think about - I have had more success using ground antenna (one rod) then the zinc/copper pair. Anyway. I got more experimenting to do and will post something when I think its relevant.

in the mean time, peace out.
Dont worry, we all have to begin somewhere,  I still remember my first post, which was incidentally a PM lol.

There is a lot of info you have submitted here, I will have a second look at it shortly, so far its quite interresting.

Bill and Jeanna and others will be interrested in the Stubblefield work you have done.

cosmicfarmer, now that is a quaint avatar, you haven't been raising green cheese moonwize?  ;)

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on August 03, 2009, 12:22:50 PM

A quote from Ed Leedskalnin:

" I made a lot more electricity with steel than I ever made with copper."

Regards...

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 03, 2009, 01:01:22 PM
@Smoky2

Happy birthday for the kiddy


kid had a borthday today, so i obtained more of those toy-twist-tie thingies.

i went ahead and plugged my large steel pipe back in parallel with them for extra current boost.

i now have 13 of my "experimental electrodes"
(+ a 2ft stainless steel pipe)
and 3 6"-square copper plates at the south end.

drawing 0.98v @ almost 6ma now.

if i can find a suitable substitute for these things i would like to make a field of hundreds of them. i think great current can be drawn this way, by connecting several more of them in parallel.

i can light up all of my 30 LEDs now.
caused my neighbor to ask what it was tonight !!!
Ha ha, must be a thing for neighbours, I had a neighbourly visit today.

keep us posted with your EB output, any output is better than none.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on August 03, 2009, 04:26:30 PM
Quote
The meter shows 100 volts (just about) yet he is lighting 2 leds.  I would think those would have fried at that voltage.  I favorited it for further analysis.  I wonder how much power he is getting from this?
I just see an expensive series bank in free air. I did not see any amp measurements at all. With the amount of stacks he had at 100 volts it should have lit more than led,s. It is interesting though.
 What I really didn't like was the music all the way through. An initial splash screen (like yours) that identifys is great. But it should be down to business after that with the verbal or at least some closeups.
Jmo!
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cosmicfarmer on August 03, 2009, 04:39:24 PM
Thanks for the warm welcome, Electricme.

Its not cheese being made in the moon, its Mochi :-)  I have a pet rabbit up there pounding away...

I am interested to see if power is increased if that "tower" is entrained in the ground. Neat idea but if it works out of the ground then its all galvanic IMHO. Still amazing, but people will want to hook huge loads to it and get dissapointed when it dosn't work. That tower idea would go great in a flashlight body, and instead of changing the batteries, you would have to just get it wet. Leave it in a stream for a while or something.

About stubblefield coils...  How were they wound? in the patent picture it almost looks like each wrap was on top of each other, and when it got to the perimeter, another layer was made (series pancake coils). I tried that and realized it was harder to do then I thought because my steel wire was smaller then my copper... I wrapped felt insulation between everything.  So I made one "pancake layer" and then just wrapped the rest of the coil normal style, with felt layers. 3 layers total. I also need to make a connection from the core too, right?

About pancake vs cylinders... Dr.Stiffler says that a pancake coil slows down the (E field?) to slower then the speed of light while a cylinder speeds it up much faster when being pulsed... The speed up was contributed to capacitance coupling - the power taking a shortcut through a quicker path.    So I was thinking to gather power, wouldn't pancakes be better then cylinders? The wave would impact all wire at once instead of being guided through 1 at a time, giving more amps. The pancake acting as a brake while the cylinder acting as a turbo...

Cheers!
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on August 03, 2009, 05:30:44 PM
Quote
if i can find a suitable substitute for these things i would like to make a field of hundreds of them
You could make a tier adding potential surface area and saving ground space.
A 10 foot stick of 1/2" copper plumbing pipe is about 8 dollars here. Cut the pipe to the length needed and stack them vertically against each other on top of one plate. You would need to solder them to the plate.
With 3 plates you could make 2 tiers or 3 stacks if wanted. 3 stacks may be better as you could wrap copper wire all the way around the three stacks of pipes, like a coil just not mag wire, adding even more surface area. You could possibly use copper foil also. If your real industrious you could even make 45 degree wraps and possibly pick up scalar waves too. I have only seen coil types wound for scalar waves myself though. Jai; Just an idea.
 After thought. Im wondering if wrapping thin copper foil with the same surface area around a non conductive core,even if tightly, would let the flow of energy in at a faster rate rather than a hard surface. Just wondering.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on August 03, 2009, 05:56:48 PM
@Cosmic farmer
Quote
The ground signal was about 3 volts 45 hz clean looking AC. I even turned off all my house power at the breaker except for the scope and it was still clean AC.
I noticed that in the video. You may want to try it with a Ups unplugged and the house panel main off to see what you get. House wiring puts out a substantial  electromagnetic field. Even with one circuit on you are still tied into the grid through the neutral. The neutral can put out transients to the ground if they share the same ground bar.  I would think the scope would have filters on it though to stop the emf. If nothing else was on the one circuit experiment the reading should be right. In labs most scopes are on a dedicated circuit. All audio recording equipment should be on a dedicated circuit with star grounding. You would plug in Recorders,effects,mixing boards etc all into the same circuit. This avoids transients and keeps the ground close to zero potential. Your entertainment center of tvs etc is better off this way too.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 03, 2009, 07:01:07 PM
Smokey:
... I had never really thought about cement as an insulator before but then, I learn something new here every day.

Bill
Hi Sm0ky2 and Bill,
Do you remember the 3 cement pots I made in an effort to isolate my EB probes but to have them in the earth in an earth-like container?

I was not able to fully insulate the probes in the 3 pots.

Remember that when you try to make a series connection in the ground, you get zero volts. You don't even get the volts you got with one pair.
So, When I put the pots into the ground I had to let them stay there a while because before the cement cured, they acted like plain soil. I lost the volts from the original probes.
Also, when they finally cured enough, the potential I gained was only 0.1 volt or less.

So, my conclusion after all that is that cement is a very lousy insulator from earth currents.

It makes me wonder what if I put some probes in those pots and looked with the scope?

I need to get some more nails. (I keep stealing them from my tent.)

Oh, and another thing to add about cement. Do you remember the pyramid thread trowager deal? So many people made precision pyramids but found nothing? In the very beginning someone saw a reaction happening with the 5% salt water in sand that trowager used to fill the copper pipe.
I made up a mixture of 5% salt water in sand in a glass jar and stuck meter probes in it to see.
There was a fair amount of activity for a while.
I did not have it in a copper tube, just a glass jar, so I think there is some reaction the sand in the cement could offer to an earth set up.

Personally, I think Sm0ky2 has the idea. Make inductor/ antennas and stick them into the ground and figure how to connect them up.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 03, 2009, 07:04:18 PM
Thanks for the warm welcome, Electricme.

Its not cheese being made in the moon, its Mochi :-)  I have a pet rabbit up there pounding away...

I am interested to see if power is increased if that "tower" is entrained in the ground. Neat idea but if it works out of the ground then its all galvanic IMHO. Still amazing, but people will want to hook huge loads to it and get dissapointed when it dosn't work. That tower idea would go great in a flashlight body, and instead of changing the batteries, you would have to just get it wet. Leave it in a stream for a while or something.

About stubblefield coils...  How were they wound? in the patent picture it almost looks like each wrap was on top of each other, and when it got to the perimeter, another layer was made (series pancake coils). I tried that and realized it was harder to do then I thought because my steel wire was smaller then my copper... I wrapped felt insulation between everything.  So I made one "pancake layer" and then just wrapped the rest of the coil normal style, with felt layers. 3 layers total. I also need to make a connection from the core too, right?

About pancake vs cylinders... Dr.Stiffler says that a pancake coil slows down the (E field?) to slower then the speed of light while a cylinder speeds it up much faster when being pulsed... The speed up was contributed to capacitance coupling - the power taking a shortcut through a quicker path.    So I was thinking to gather power, wouldn't pancakes be better then cylinders? The wave would impact all wire at once instead of being guided through 1 at a time, giving more amps. The pancake acting as a brake while the cylinder acting as a turbo...

Cheers!

Cosmicfarmer:

Glad to see you made it here from Youtube land.  Welcome.

A quick and dirty explanation of the construction of the Stubblefield coil as we know it from research and studying the patent:

It should be wound on a soft iron core.
Solid copper wire and solid soft iron wire. (bare, no insulation as far as plastic, etc)
Unless you can find cotton insulated wire that does not have teflon inside the cotton.
The point is to have insulation for separation that allows all of the moisture to pass through.
Wind the coil bifilar after insulating the core along its length.  I used strips cut from a cotton T-shirt for this.
There are several ways to do this next step, I will tell you how I did it first.
I wound the first layer on the insulated core bifilar.  When I got to the end of the core, I took cotton string that was the same diameter as my wire and wound it in between the copper and iron wires.  You have to do this twice starting from 2 places to isolate both sides of the wire. (This will make much more sense when you see it)
Then, wrap another layer of cotton insulation over the first layer of wire.  Repeat for as many layers as you have wire and patience to wind.
Some of the other folks took small strips of cotton material and wrapped their wire with it prior to winding.  This is a difficult and, to me, tedious, way of doing this but, we don't have many choices now.  In Stubblefield's time, the wire available was all cotton insulated, and it had only cotton and no other plastic under the cotton.  It would be a breeze to wind coils if that were the case today.
It would be good if you wind your coil so that you end up with all of the wire ends (4) on the same end of the coil.  I didn't do this on my first one and did on my second.  This way, you can bury the coil and just have the top of it sticking out of the ground with the 4 wires exposed for hook-up.

Jeanna and Jim can probably give you more information but, basically, this is what I did and it does work.  We just never followed through and set up the pulsing device which he used (we are not sure exactly how) which is where he got his power from.  I am thinking now that a transistor will do this but, a lot of research will need to be done on that.

Hope this helps.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: nueview on August 03, 2009, 07:04:59 PM
HI all

this is just a thought about what i am reading here and have read elsewhere but Jeanna wets her cell or EB every day Volta had to dry his cell to remove moisture so could the charge be moisture related either carried in the vapor that can condense or water as it evaporates since they must be insulated or stand allone what if the inside of the tubes are filled with desiccant or some other form of anhydrous material  or perhaps use solar heating to cause evaporation to See what happens.

water vapor is very sensitive to charge flow through difference of potential.
Martin

PS oxides of metals form diodes two metals of different type can form opposing diodes.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 03, 2009, 08:48:03 PM
Hi everybody,
I was taking some readings for the datalogging thread and I had some interesting shots so I thought I would show you here at this thread... ;D

Cosmicfarmer... perhaps there is too much information on the 2 stubblefield threads, but it is a good thing to read. It might save you a load of trouble or inspire you to more!
At the moment there is a new Stubblefield winder (protonmom) who has just begun winding Stubblefield coils. It might be perfect for you to jump in there right now. That way you 2 will be sharing new ideas born of the older ones, and we will all gain from that.

Nueview, perhaps it is the explanation you gave about moisture, but I think it is about surface area of contact. It is no good to use the ground soaking wet because it takes the readings down to the galvanic only level. When moist, this is not so present so it is possible for the spikes and other movements of the magnetic currents to be seen. But since it is being viewed through electrical devices, via wires, there must be some contact.
Ever have an EKG? even there the process requires a cream on the skin for good contact.

Would anybody like to see my pictures from today.
I had incredible spikes today and interestingly only with the simple probes in the earth not with the other set up that has Stubblefield coils added. I am thinking this means it is coming from the earth since there was no sort of antenna.


dc volts then the captions say what they are. the 303khz pair are wide wave and I didn't bother to move the markers. The 2.22Mhz is real.
These spikes could be the hi bark of the new puppy next door. It could also be the puppy was being bothered by something and was barking.
This does not look like a sound waveform at all, but I want to add it.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: nueview on August 03, 2009, 09:34:54 PM
 

  @ Jeanna

  i did not mean to soak the ground as the water impurities would severely reduce the resistance of the earth and pure distilled water has very high resistance by adding an impurity to the water the resistance can be adjusted this should set a current flow to a voltage the more current the evaporation should cause charge carriers to move as in an electrolysis process the water would then be removed.

calcium or some other elements may define the motion of these charges though i do not think this is what you are after but cold fussion does release allot of energy.and even slight warming can raise reaction levels. although this is surely occurring it is the energy flow you are looking for .

i have thought that the earth batteries are interesting as there are copper and gold mining techniques that leach metals from the soil and collect them on rods by use of electric currents this allone shows or gives evidence to the nature metals ability to move in moist ground and these charges can be considerable.

putting all this together i made the previous post.

always
Martin
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: kamax on August 04, 2009, 01:51:01 AM
Here are my first EB (2 cells) connected to a joule thief. I just add the black cap to have enough power. The led blink because he's too big, with smaller cap no more blink but a low light.

I get ~1.3V with no load and it drop to 0.5V connected to the joule thief.

edit: video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UikDRvySVEI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UikDRvySVEI)
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on August 04, 2009, 02:04:43 AM

While messing with my planted cap, the voltage was lost, and slowly climbed to .05 vdc.

I placed my meter probe on the positive cap terminal and hand pulsed the negative probe in the dirt and very quickly got reached a .28 vdc reading...hmmm.

Hope that info will help someone's set up.

Regards...

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 04, 2009, 02:28:29 AM
Here are my first EB (2 cells) connected to a joule thief. I just add the black cap to have enough power. The led blink because he's too big, with smaller cap no more blink but a low light.

I get ~1.3V with no load and it drop to 0.5V connected to the joule thief.
kamax
That is cool.

Are you willing to time this?
Just let it run until it stops running?
Give daily or eventually weekly then monthly updates?
I am curious to see if this will just keep on going.

Last year, or 2 years ago by now, I put a series battery together using aluminum foil and carbon (carpenter's pencil). It worked well lighting a led with no other part. No joule thief etc.
It lasted 2 full days, as I recall. Finally I took it apart because one electrode was gummed up.
The theory is that when it is in the earth and perhaps in pots of earth the battery elements will continue to work.
I would like to know. And, since you have set this up I hope you will be willing to report.

===

@cap-z-ro,
I am paying attention to those reports. Please keep them coming.
The pulsing you were providing was much slower than the pulsing normally present in the earth, but, or because of this it is helpful.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 04, 2009, 02:33:39 AM
Kamax:

Nice work.  I have to say so others don't get confused that this is not an EER or an EB.  What you are getting will be galvanic only and it will eat up your metals over time.  Now, this is not to say that it is not worth doing.  Quite the contrary.  To tap the electric and magnetic earth currents the metals need to be in the earth.  Maybe your way is a good idea for testing different arrangements for the best results prior to digging holes in the earth.  I will be the first to admit that it is a real pain to remove electrodes and other ERR devices once buried.

Keep up the good work and please keep sharing your results.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 04, 2009, 02:46:19 AM
That is right Bill,

Here is the part I want to test.

There are 2 categories in earth batteries.

The galvanic part and the pulsed part.

In the galvanic part, if these elements get eaten up or even gum up over time, then we will have an indication that the soil components have no play in the way the EB's of old lasted. (And this will mean they lasted because of the magnetic pulses, currents)

Since Kamax's set up is purely galvanic yet made in soil as electrolyte, this is the perfect way to learn if or how much the soil itself is stopping the electrodes from dissolving.

I am very interested to find out this part.

Many times forum people will say, "purely galvanic" and dismiss it.
If it is soil microbes or minerals that are replenishing the metals, then being in pots in the house will make it the critical step different from soil in the changing mag fields of the earth. And let us know.

thank you both for bringing this up,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 04, 2009, 02:50:27 AM
@ Jeanna:

Thank you.  I agree totally.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: kamax on August 04, 2009, 03:13:13 AM
@jeanna
This setup is only for testing, i will make other to see if the lenght/wide of the copper tube give me more power or not to avoid a too big voltage drop when in charge.
For the moment it runs for +3h now wihtout any changes but the long testing setup over the time will begin only when i have finished to try all what i want to test and keep the best one.

@all
I don't know if it's galvanic effect or not, i think i use the same piece for my setup as you except mine is in a pot and not in the "real earth". I'm not sure but if my electrodes are slowly dissolved, i think your electrodes would be dissolved too in the real ground ?

I must admit that my setup works only with a little water, a full dry earth don't give me any output but the amout of water don't change anyting, only a little is enough.

I will report all my future result here with you, i read this forum for a very long time and love what you are doing and be very happy to share something with you.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on August 04, 2009, 03:19:18 AM
" @cap-z-ro,
I am paying attention to those reports. Please keep them coming.
The pulsing you were providing was much slower than the pulsing normally present in the earth, but, or because of this it is helpful. "


The pulse rate that I used was slow and rhythmic...like a I recall in a recurring dream I had as a kid Jeanna.

If you can you give me a rough idea of the pulse rate of the earth, as a starting point it may be of help to me ?

Regards...

Edit:

Another of my wacky cap concepts:

I have this 4 pole cap...1 neg terminal 3 positive terminals, designated 'a' 'b' and 'c'.

I took a black plastic film container...I filled it up with alternate lyers of steel wool and cotton.

I placed a 1 inch toroid on the top.

On top of that, i placed the 4 pole cap.

The 3 poles in order now read .21 vdc, .05 vdc, and .10 vdc.

Weird huh ?

Haven't figured out what to make of it yet.

Regards...

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 04, 2009, 03:52:47 AM
@jeanna
This setup is only for testing, i will make other to see if the lenght/wide of the copper tube give me more power or not to avoid a too big voltage drop when in charge.
For the moment it runs for +3h now wihtout any changes but the long testing setup over the time will begin only when i have finished to try all what i want to test and keep the best one.

@all
I don't know if it's galvanic effect or not, i think i use the same piece for my setup as you except mine is in a pot and not in the "real earth". I'm not sure but if my electrodes are slowly dissolved, i think your electrodes would be dissolved too in the real ground ?

I must admit that my setup works only with a little water, a full dry earth don't give me any output but the amout of water don't change anyting, only a little is enough.

I will report all my future result here with you, i read this forum for a very long time and love what you are doing and be very happy to share something with you.

If you read some of the Stubblefield research, you can see where he says that his coils buried in the ground exhibit no deterioration and will last for many, many years.
I have seen this with my set-up thus far, although it has been only just short of two years, not long enough to tell really.  So, your tests will be helpful for sure.  If you run this for a while and see no breakdown of materials, well, that will tell us something.

I may make a similar set-up for testing purposes myself.  I have said this many times before and I will say it again...no one, that we know of, really knows why this works so, this means we can't really say right now what works and what does not.  The best way is to try.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 04, 2009, 06:44:34 AM

The pulse rate that I used was slow and rhythmic...like a I recall in a recurring dream I had as a kid Jeanna.

If you can you give me a rough idea of the pulse rate of the earth, as a starting point it may be of help to me ?

Regards...
When you said keep them coming you are paying attention was that to me?
You read my mind? or did I say I was thinking nobody really wanted to see them?

I am consistently seeing from 2.25Mhz to 2.5Mhz
It is like fractals the wave repeats itself at different resolutions.
The final closest resolution the wave usually undulates. But not every day.
I may post a pic here to show the 2.2-5 Mhz of the wave. This is the little spikes I am thinking we can magnify with inductors. I doubt if either Stubblefield or Tesla were doing that, but youneverknow!

This is from today. No stubblefield so no coils at all, just the cu zn probes. The scope doesn't see a wave at this resolution but it is about 22Khz . I am talking about the big carrier wave. But this is the wave being carried.
==
And another one from today.
This had the basic C+ and Zn- but at each end I appended a NS coil. OOO cool.




jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 04, 2009, 07:02:02 AM
tonight's readings::

up to 25 plastic-coated steel wire coils now

0.85v

7 ma

with two 4.7mF (4700 micro) caps have my LEDs blinking rapidly.
getting real close to "staying on"

think i need to make a better joule thief, mine is garbage compared to some that i have seen.

best so far i think was some kind of "modified fuji circuit", possibly from a television? not sure...
was a PirateLabs video lighting a large flourescent tube from an EB.  (was that you Bill??)

anyhow, i think with these large current ratings im getting, i could do some impressive things with the right joule thief at my disposal....

my next mission is to break the 10 milliamp barrier.

need more steel wire

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 04, 2009, 07:17:38 AM
Smokey:

Hey, 7 mA's is getting up there, nice job.  Yes, the modified Fuji circuit is a quasi JT circuit.  It is made frm a disposable Fuji camera.  But, you have to look back on this topic, or the diagrams topic where Jeanna tells how to tell the various circuit boards apart from looking at the outside of the camera.

Any decent basic JT circuit should work with your number there.  Again, the Instructables JT works well as well as others in the beginning of the JT topic.  But, you are getting some light so, you are way ahead of where I was back in the start of all this.  If you popped a supercap and a JT (hand wound like the basic JT) into your circuit, your led would be on 100%.  (not really, it will LOOK like it is on 100% but in reality it is flashing on and off so fast, the eyes can't tell.)

Others can jump in here but, you are on the correct track in my opinion.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 04, 2009, 07:48:19 AM
@ Everyone,

Another break through with proof.  ;D
ELECTRICAL CELL LEAKAGE it seems I have managed to stop most of it. :D

Yesterday I "planted" some 12 aluminium outer metal tubes, I used Copper pipe as the positave.

This morning, I and my trusty multimeter took a walk down cell lane  ;D

I next did a series of individule cell voltage checking, then I did a series cell check, gradudually clipping each cell positave to its next cell negative.

As I proceeded, I noticed the slight increase of voltage, but a reduction occurred at each connection.
I could not get a full voltage out as I expected with this ally EER cell battery setup, wouuuu is me. :( :( :(

OK I got 12 cells here, so I split them up, beginning from cell 7 to 12. ;)
Taking each cell out of the ground in turn and giving them a nice plastic bag to be comfy in and put each cell back in the earth, exactly where they came from originally.

Each cell individually retained its own voltage, then I connected them (cells 7-12) in series and whackoooo the voltage came up to expected voltage.
                                             ;D ;D ;D


It is reading 3.34-35  volts compared to the same ones I did not modify with the plastic bags, their voltages remained the same , MUCH LOWER.

So some of the answer is to completly block off the bottom of each tube as well as the sides.

After posting this and the small videos, I will go and do the same to the rest of the Ally Tubes, 1-6. ;D

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 04, 2009, 07:54:21 AM
VIDEO TIME folks

0278.3gp
Using a sledge hammer to pound the first aluminium cell outers into the prepared ground.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 04, 2009, 08:01:41 AM
VIDEO 2

The Ally EER cells are now ready, the DMM is connected to it and I poor water around and into the cells, oops e dazy, too much water got splashed.
You can see the meter reading start to rise then go down.

The next 2 videos supply the answer, and its'nt too much water, he he.
 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 04, 2009, 08:08:04 AM
Jim:

Another great discovery from downunder!!!!

I would think you would be concentrating on staying warm, ha ha.  So, total insulation/isolation seems to be the key?  Have you tired any of these same tubes out of the ground (on a table for example) for a control to compare?

Somehow, I think the magnetic/telluric currents are getting through your insulation enough to produce your results.  If you think about it, plastic does not stop a magnet from sticking to something so.....this could be really big Jim.

Once again, the General takes us another step forward!

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 04, 2009, 08:10:02 AM
Video 3

Well wasn't the last something, the voltage went up then fell off, hmmmm.

OK  I setup a controlled experiment, the first cells 1 to 6 I did not mofify
The cels from 7 to 12 received some new plastic shopping bags.

The series voltage from the cells 1 to 6 = 1.846 volts
The series voltage from the cells 7 to 12 = 3.35 volts  just over .5 volt per cell.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 04, 2009, 08:13:42 AM
VIDEO 4 da last one

Just another one similar to the previous, a little bit betta

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 04, 2009, 08:27:40 AM
@ Bill,
Thank you, I thought I would reply before I take the 1 to 6 cells out, I willtry what you suggest and take a photo of this.
 
Jim:

Another great discovery from downunder!!!!

I would think you would be concentrating on staying warm, ha ha.  So, total insulation/isolation seems to be the key?  Have you tired any of these same tubes out of the ground (on a table for example) for a control to compare?

Somehow, I think the magnetic/telluric currents are getting through your insulation enough to produce your results.  If you think about it, plastic does not stop a magnet from sticking to something so.....this could be really big Jim.

Once again, the General takes us another step forward!

Bill

Staying warm is a key, ha ha concentrating and moving around keep me warm, he he.

You are up nice and early Bill, are you getting ready to go metal tube and plastic bag hunting?

OK, I'm going back to making discoveries, see you all shortly, then its readup from last night.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 04, 2009, 09:01:58 AM
@All

At Bills personal request, ;) here is the result of this experiment.

1258.jpg = The cells out of the earth/ground, laying on plastic shopping bags,
                 they are series connected = 3.099v DC
1289.jpg = Cells 1 to 7 are 3.099v DC      Cells 7 to 12 are 3,37 v DC

1260.jpg = All cells back in the earth, very untidy bags, hmmmmm

OK, lets see what a PVC pipe with a end cap arrangement on each end can dooooo. but that is for another time, I have a lot of PVC out side, but got to think a-bit more about it first.

jim 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 04, 2009, 09:16:30 AM
EER Battery, 2 more videos folks

This is just for the Pirate who has a great heart  ;)

The cells 1 to 7 are out on plastic bags, the cells 7 to 12 are in the ground IN their plastic bags.

For those who are visually sensitive about seeing plastic bags used here in this way, GET OVER IT, this is an INVENTER at work, inventions by their very nature use inappropiate materials thet were designed for different purposes.
To sooth your jangled nerves, in due time I will remove them and use something else

           EEEEEEHHHHAAAARRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 04, 2009, 09:29:47 AM
@ ALL

OK here is the Last Video, final result is, I am getting 6 + volts DC out of these cells, a first for me.

It appears every cell does need to be insulated, not only from each other, but from leakages of the earth resistance between each cell.

So far my own investigations prove this, without any doubt, now the door is opened to electrical energy using a series cells, the next thing is for everyone to REPLICATE, make their own setups.

The usage of different materials, insulation's, metals for electrodes, size does seem to matter.
Small setups equate to small outputs.
Larger setups in size mean more GRUNT, the elusive GRUNT as amps.

Enjoy it folks

jim
   
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on August 04, 2009, 11:58:50 AM

@ Jeanna

" When you said keep them coming you are paying attention was that to me? "

You said that to me girl...and thanks for showing interest in my wacky idea.


" You read my mind? or did I say I was thinking nobody really wanted to see them? "

Actually, its scary but I think you and me are nearly the same thought wave length.


" I am consistently seeing from 2.25Mhz to 2.5Mhz
It is like fractals the wave repeats itself at different resolutions.

The final closest resolution the wave usually undulates.
But not every day."

Its almost like the pulse of a living entity...which would not surprise me at all.

" I may post a pic here to show the 2.2-5 Mhz of the wave. This is the little spikes I am thinking we can magnify with inductors. I doubt if either Stubblefield or Tesla were doing that, but youneverknow! "

That is also my sense of it.


" This is from today. No stubblefield so no coils at all, just the cu zn probes. The scope doesn't see a wave at this resolution but it is about 22Khz . I am talking about the big carrier wave. But this is the wave being carried.
==
And another one from today.
This had the basic C+ and Zn- but at each end I appended a NS coil. OOO cool."

I'm afraid my technical understanding remains at the instinctual level, due to some huge irons I have in the fire.

I wish I had the time to grow with the gang...but I have to be content to pick up a little here and there as time permits for now.


@ Jim

What did I tell you...you are no doubt among the greats in this field.

To me it seem the earth/planet seems to have a desire to flow its energy into a void...so I would try sealing your cell in a plastic soda bottle in soil that is barely moist, not wet.

A little dryer than the soil its planted in.


There is so much great lateral thinking happening all over this site right now, I know success is not far off.
 
Regards all...

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 04, 2009, 12:01:04 PM
@cosmicfarmer,

Arrrr I like it ha ha ha, clever wabbit  ;D
.
Thanks for the warm welcome, Electricme.

Its not cheese being made in the moon, its Mochi :-)  I have a pet rabbit up there pounding away...

 galvanic IMHO. Still amazing, but people will want to hook huge loads to it and get disappointed when it doesn't work.
stubblefield coils...  How were they wound?
Cheers!
I think with hooking up a heavy load to my setup, it would only work  if the electrodes were huge to enormous.

Galvanic, yes I believe it is so, but as Jeanna has said there seems to be a mixture of components here. When I use a scope to look at the earth electrical activity waveforms, all I see is confusion. I haven't seen what my current EER cells are showing, but I suspect it would be very similar.
 
Stubblefield Cells, lol, now this is about the most important question people have asked at times (see the stubblefield threads), As far as I know, no originals exist, but there must be one in a dusty attic or shed some where.
 
Now, if you come across an original stubblefield cell, please make a video of it, turning it end over end, slowly and round.
Then mount it and very carefully dismantle it taking note of everything you see about it.

If anyone reading this knows they might have a funny looking, very old wire wound coil, please post a photo of it here, there should be a steel wire and a copper wire, both wound side by side called a bifilar winding, with a iron bolt through the middle with a big fat washer on either end of the thick coil.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 04, 2009, 02:42:15 PM
@Cao-Z-ro

I aint so great, lol, but the acolade is nice, thanks.


I wish I had the time to grow with the gang...but I have to be content to pick up a little here and there as time permits for now.


@ Jim

What did I tell you...you are no doubt among the greats in this field.

There is so much great lateral thinking happening all over this site right now, I know success is not far off.
 
Regards all...

Good things come to those who wait, learning is part of this as well.
The hard part is to wait until the good idea comes along and then doing the idea, sometimes you have to seek the KEY, then bingo....
I have lots of failed ideas, but this means less to sift in the long run.

I was just looking back at the last photos I posted, those bags look awful, so I just might go outside in the morning with some sizzors and snip a few bags....
 
Theres lots of good ideas here, and lots of good people, not only on this forum but in all the others too.
I go, look, pay attention, listen, and read, so much information to soke in, if only the schools would teach this stuff the world would be a much better place.

sometimes it scares me the quality of the people here, some of them could run rings around me and leave me at a snale pace.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 04, 2009, 02:59:38 PM
@All

So far the 6 volts are steady out of my 12 Ally cells, surprisengly this is still not enough to light up a white LED blindingly, 6 volts should have smoked this LED.

Why not? because it is only at uA or Micro amps,. :o

I have shown the way to make series earth cells, that alone is the success of my goal, and I am happy to have done this. :D

Next is to make a 12v DC series earth cell, this will take twice as much material as what I have used, as each cell puts out on average .5 volts or more, so amps is going to be the big one to achieve.

I was thinking, how is it possible to make a earth cell and seal in the moisture, well have a tube sealed at both ends, when the moisture is optimum, seal the tube, it becomes it's own little echo system. ;)

This weekend, its a trip to the plumbers, for endcaps, PVC cement, a few bolts and wingnuts, well something like that stuff anyway.

(Got to do away with the shopping bags) ::)

Goodnight all

jim   
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on August 04, 2009, 03:37:53 PM
Hi all,

This thread is moving fast. Here are the results from my tests.

Measured the EB in the morning 838mv 92ua.

Placed 90 watt solar array on it in reverse charge for an hour readings were 497mv 91ua.

After that I stuck the 90 watt array on to charge rest of the day. Final reading was 1.27v 245ua (lower than before with just 15watts).

Reading in the morning 580mv 82ua.

Seems like after charging the EB the voltage drops below normal then returns to normal a day later. What is interesting is my dirt seems to have a charge limit of 1.3v and around 300ua for my current EB setup. I haven't been able to push it beyond that 1.3v threshold with direct current. Well, tear down the grand opening sign to Worm Emporium, I didn't catch any worms either.  ;)
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 04, 2009, 05:04:41 PM
@ electricme

its funny, you have been going for volts, and i have been going for amps..

so allow me to shed my experience

to increase the amperage, simply connect all the (-) terminals together, and all the (+) terminals together.

you can do this with the first (-) and last (+) of several sets of series-linked tubes, and you will have both Volts and Amps.

and thus 'usable power'.

hope this helps
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 04, 2009, 07:17:33 PM
@ Jeanna,

further experimentation has led to the discovery that my "experimental electrodes" aren't doing anything special.
as it turns out, they dont need to be insulated, OR coiled.

in fact - it works exactly the same with soft-steel paperclips.
just bend them straight, and stick them in the ground (-)

copper wire at  the (+) and whalla: 0.7-0.98v ,depending on the moisture: less wet = higher voltage.

they can even be right next to each other (not touching)

i'll play around some more tonight and see if i can get some serious current going on.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 04, 2009, 07:54:20 PM
Jim:

Great videos mate! (I love your accent)

So, it does appear that even though you get volts from the cells out of the ground, it is higher when they are in the ground.  To me, that is the difference from pure galvanic and the EER.  I can take a carbon rod and my mag. block and get a potential out of the ground but I have seen that it is much higher when in the ground and aligned the way I have them.

This was a good test to see done.  I thank you for doing that.  Wow, over 6 volts over there!!!  At the rate you are going, you will catch up and pass Kapanadze.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 04, 2009, 08:42:21 PM
Wow you guys kept busy after I turned in last night.
@jim,
That is a great test you did.
I didn't look at all the videos yet, but I think you did not do scope shots.
I would like to see them.
Even if you think they are garbled.
Maybe someone else has the same garble?
Or what if it is very unusual and tells us something?
So, please do a scope shot and upload one a day for the days you are home.

You can leave the probes ready to clip on and turn the scope on taks a pic and that is it.

@DreamTB, Good info.
Sorry about the worm farm.

@Sm0ky2
That is interesting.
I am glad for the experimentation.
I got a couple of ideas from it, thanks.

I took a bunch of scope shots this morning.
And one movie.
I hope you aren't all movied out.
It is very short because I left it in avi format so you don't need to use quicktime. I think you can just watch it?
Please let me know.
It is hard to make it short enough on my 5Mpx camera without compression. So here it is.
1 second short:

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 04, 2009, 08:54:16 PM
And here are the pix for this morning.
This is just 2 probes in the ground.
My NStubblefield set up is on different wires.

I have added something to the names-captions.
First they tell the seconds per division, (or milli or micro seconds as it is)
This is followed by the mV output as shown on the scope peak to peak,
In those cases where I moved the markers, I have included the Hz amount that is between the markers.

If this makes it unclear, please let me know.
I find this helps me when I download a pic. I like to have the name make some sense all by itself.

This morning Cu+ Zn- 9 feet apart.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 04, 2009, 08:57:01 PM
Jeanna:

Your video opened fine in media player (Thank you) but, it was less than one second long.  Was it supposed to be?  you said the words Plain earth....and the video was over.  Just letting you know in case it was longer than that.  Nice scope shot, it showed up very well.
                      ***EDIT***  I see now where you said it was 1 second. sorry.
Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 04, 2009, 09:05:37 PM
Oh Bill, thank you so much for the quick reply.
I have been trying for days to get something small enough to post in avi format.
It is raw off the camera, and 1 second in uncompressed form is all I can get.
I actually said "plain earth battery" (meaning no stubblefield coils at the ends) but the sound cut off.
The main thing was to show the movement of the wave. 1 second was long enough today.

I plan to make a full video and upload it to youtube. It is good practice. I am getting prepared to make a youtube video on my 2 tier experiments
For now I will do EB EER and scopeshots.

Thanks,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 04, 2009, 11:51:51 PM
Hi everybody,
I made this video of today's scope readings along with an  explanation to help understand my scope shots.

I am showing the EB with 2 stubblefield coils appended to each end.

NS#10 north_____Carbon probe_____Meter_____Zinc probe_____NS#9 south.

The voltage has risen each day, however, the voltage with the 2 NS coils added is not as high as it is with only the NS#9 added at the south. However it is quite a bit higher than with just the Cu+Zn- probes.

The wave shapes all have a lot in common. I tried to add a clip of the simple EB - probes only, but imovie wouldn't allow it for some reason. Anyway, this is the part I wanted to show so,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfwMFrqGtaE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfwMFrqGtaE)

have a look!

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: kamax on August 05, 2009, 12:10:35 AM
I make new cells with different copper size. The first is with a very small copper pipe but it stop working after some minutes, the led blink always more slow and stop. If i open/close the circuit the led restart to blink but slow down again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swN1prrb5hs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swN1prrb5hs)

And here is another version with a bigger copper pipe into. The led blink faster and run for ~2h now without any slow down:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAjjxcs1E20 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAjjxcs1E20)

In each setup it works only with one cell :)
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on August 05, 2009, 12:24:47 AM


Nice Video Jeanna...I'm not scope friendly yet.

@ everybody,

I wonder if you combined cells of NS alignment with cells of an angular or a EW alignment, would that give you amps ?

Regards...


Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 05, 2009, 05:34:41 AM
broke the 10ma barrier, going for 20
paperclips Rule!!
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 05, 2009, 06:20:54 AM
broke the 10ma barrier, going for 20
paperclips Rule!!
Wow, that simple?

I guess I will try it tomorrow.

A bunch of iron wires in the ground connected to the zinc nail?

You mentioned a cap, and I was not sure if that were a necessary part of the recipe?
Is the cap necessary?
If so,
Did you try this with the cap and without the paper clips?

It was a cap alone that allowed pirate88179 to light the led that very first time. That is why I am asking about that.

Thanks for so much excitement,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 05, 2009, 06:44:47 AM
@ Jeanna, the cap is part of my JT circuit
these measurements (added photos above) are straight off the EB leads, without the JT connected.
the cap may no longer be necessary, i havent tried yet since i jacked the current up so high. they were needed before when i was only working with 3ma.

uploaded a video to YouTube, demonstrating the JT in operation.
the LEDs are a 7-piece Bar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrrFsiMXrvA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrrFsiMXrvA)

15-20 more paperclips and i think i can get these LEDs to "appear to" stay lit, even with my crappy JT.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 05, 2009, 07:16:48 AM
Smokey:

Holy crap that is a good level of mA's!  I will go watch your video now but please feel free to post some photos here of your set-up too.  From your description, it sounds like this might be fairly easy for many, many folks to replicate.

Paperclips?  Wow, nice going.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 05, 2009, 08:29:44 AM
i dont think a photo of mine would be much help.
as it is pieced together out of 'stuff', looks like a mess....

best way to describe this, is just straighten a bunch of paperclips,(or any other soft iron) and stick them in the ground, slightly spaced out from one another. and connect the top ends together.

this is your negative lead.

then a copper wire/pipe/sheet as the positive lead.

the more 'probes' you have from the negative, the more current is captured.

my experimentation with multiple copper (positive) leads did not show any increase,
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 05, 2009, 08:49:16 AM
Smokey:

This is interesting as I have never tried multiple neg. electrodes.  I actually have two positive electrodes on my set-up now (for about 1.5 years now) and I got an increase in both volts (not much ) and mA's. (pretty decent increase)

I have always been a fan of more mass/surface area for more amps and by increasing the area of my positive side, that is what I got.  Now I wish I had like 5 magnesium blocks on my neg. side after seeing your report.  I have much more mass than you do with my set-up yet, you have not that much less mA's than I have. (I average about 19 at this time)  I am going to have to try this approach.

What if you had 1,000 paper clips out there?  2,000?  I believe you can solder to a paper clip right so the hook-up would not be that hard to do.  I would like to hear Jim's view on this.

Thanks for posting this Smokey.  This is not something I have seen before in my experiments and would have missed.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 05, 2009, 08:59:44 AM
@ kamax,

I can see you have come up against the "capacitive" effect which you are able to drain off all the "energy" within your cell.

I have seen this with my own setups here, you are not alone bro.

This is how I think what is occurring.

When the earth cell has no load, it accumulates its energy (it is very small), then the cell is charged, and I think more and more this occurs with telleric earth currents, and Galvanic action as well.

I you stick a tiny load (a LED) across the cell, the cell discharges its energy, the LED fades, then goes out. The cell is now disconnected because it has no energy, it then begins to refill, when it has reached a threshold, it begins to discharge once again.
The lower the resistance placed across the cell, the faster it will recharge and discharge, but when a resistance is too great, the process stops, as the energy cannot replenish the cell quickly enough.

If you keep the same test LED and move it to a physically larger earth cell, you will see it will light up brighter, and probably it will stay on.

I make new cells with different copper size. The first is with a very small copper pipe but it stop working after some minutes, the led blink always more slow and stop. If i open/close the circuit the led restart to blink but slow down again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swN1prrb5hs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swN1prrb5hs)

And here is another version with a bigger copper pipe into. The led blink faster and run for ~2h now without any slow down:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAjjxcs1E20 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAjjxcs1E20)

In each setup it works only with one cell :)
You are doing excellent work with your experimental EER cells, keep going, it's worth it.

I will take a look at your videos shortly, it was washing day for me, so half the day had house chores, lol.

Jeanna, I have managed to see a couple of your videos, the NS cell setup and the scope, this is very good stuff.
Well done.

I think I fixed a dog barking problem next door, had to prop some roofing iron sheets, against the fence, the dog can't see me now, so he don't bark. GOOD.
It would be better if the thing went away, triple good then.

Next announcement is a biggie, another breakthrew.
  ;D

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 05, 2009, 09:15:56 AM
@ Bill, my positive side is already pretty massive.

its made of three 6-inch square copper sheets.

it would take a lot more tiny paperclips to match that.

this may be why adding more to the pos. doesnt change much for me.

im still trying to figure out the logistics of connecting that many paperclips,.. right now im just tediously wrapping them around bare wire, like piano-keys. bit of a pain, but its worth the payoff.

one idea i had was to just stick them all in the ground, then 'weave' a wire around them all... i may give that a try
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 05, 2009, 09:19:45 AM
@ ALL

Making a SERIES EER earth cell bank.

OK I have been thinking, is it possible to connect a BANK of EER cells up to another BANK of EER cells.

What is going to happen if I attempt to connect two completly different EER Banks together, to make a bigger output.
Will I get sparks, will the voltage get higher, or lower, or would the EER banks just stop working.

Theres only one way to find out, DO IT. :D

So after I took the washing in, (I fold it and put it away Jeanna, but I'm highly allergic to the hot clothes iron, only exception is a soldering iron), like a good bloke  ;D , I then went outside and made a series electrical EER Bank connection.

Gess what, no sparks, then looking at my meter, whackkkkkoooooo, the voltage rose up toooooooo     9 volts

The   7 series copper cells puts out 2.46 volts DC
The 12 series ally cells puts out 6.54v DC

Together they put out 9.12 volts DC

1st video = Trimmed plastic bags around the 12 series Ally cells, showing voltage 6.54 on my DMM

2nd video = shows the combined EER Banks = 9.12 volts

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 05, 2009, 09:32:20 AM
Video 2
The SERIES Connected EER Banks of cells...... IT IS POSSIBLE TO DO.

OK here are the details.

There are two separate EER cell banks

The left bank consist of 7 cells, these are Copper outer jackets with Zinc center electrodes.

The right bank consists of 12 cells, with Aluminium outer jackets with Copper inner electrode.

The funny thing is this, the 7 cells are POSITIVE to the earth
The Aluminium is NEGATIVE to the earth

But I can combine them in a SERIES configuration, without fear of sparks, or shorting out, they still work OK.

See the video below, my first series connected EER energy bank, making a total of 19 cells, using different metals to do it.

jim
 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 05, 2009, 10:34:59 AM
dont be afraid of sparks.

sparks from an earth battery is never a bad thing.

thats a sign of POWER.

i can only hope to have sparks one day....

good work on 9V

now what you do is make 50 of those 9v set-ups, and connect them in parallel !!!!
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 05, 2009, 10:51:50 AM
@ sm0ky2

Thanks for the advice smokey, all experience is needed here.

@ electricme

its funny, you have been going for volts, and i have been going for amps..

so allow me to shed my experience

to increase the amperage, simply connect all the (-) terminals together, and all the (+) terminals together.

you can do this with the first (-) and last (+) of several sets of series-linked tubes, and you will have both Volts and Amps.

and thus 'usable power'.

hope this helps

I have thought about this, but I simply don't have enough cells to try it out just at the moment, but it is on the agenda for sure.

Keep up the experimenting smoke  ;)

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 05, 2009, 11:01:01 AM
@ Jaenna,

Hold onto your straw hat, I will hook up a scope in a few minutes and we shall see the waveforms, but first I will have to hook up a extension lead.
Wow you guys kept busy after I turned in last night.
@jim,
That is a great test you did.
I didn't look at all the videos yet, but I think you did not do scope shots.
I would like to see them.
Even if you think they are garbled.
Maybe someone else has the same garble?
Or what if it is very unusual and tells us something?
So, please do a scope shot and upload one a day for the days you are home.

You can leave the probes ready to clip on and turn the scope on taks a pic and that is it.

@DreamTB, Good info.
Sorry about the worm farm.

@Sm0ky2
That is interesting.
I am glad for the experimentation.
I got a couple of ideas from it, thanks.

I took a bunch of scope shots this morning.
And one movie.
I hope you aren't all movied out.
It is very short because I left it in avi format so you don't need to use quicktime. I think you can just watch it?
Please let me know.
It is hard to make it short enough on my 5Mpx camera without compression. So here it is.
1 second short:

jeanna

I never get movied out  :D just make em a little longer than half a second ha ha.

@DreamTB,
same here, about the worm farm, mabe they need a bigger shock lol.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 05, 2009, 12:14:29 PM
@Jeanna

Here is a few photos for you, they are of my EER waveforms.

1265 = I have a LED across the 9v EER series cells, this it turns out is causing this waveform

1268 = Here we can see a still shot of both my scopes, Left scope shows the waveform of the Series cells, comparing to the 8inch disc EER.

1269 = After I remove the LED, BOTH waveforms are the same.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 05, 2009, 12:25:43 PM
OK All.
Here are the tiny weiny videos

This one shows the voltage and the waveforms
At the moment I have a LED being lit up by 9 volts and it is bright, but not very bright, but it is distorting the waveform.

The small scope screen displays the Series connected EER bank.
The Right scope screen displays the 8 inch round EER unit.

Remember there is a LED on this circuit

jim


Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 05, 2009, 12:28:53 PM
Here is Video 2

Which explains it a little bit more easier.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 05, 2009, 12:32:11 PM
Last one for the night, Video 3

I have removed the LED off the series EER cells.

Both scopes now show identical waveforms.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: altrez on August 05, 2009, 01:31:10 PM
Wow nice work all. I have some things to report but work has kept me so busy. Anyway keep up the great work!


-Altrez
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: kamax on August 05, 2009, 06:42:26 PM
Hi, i just have done a new cell with cement in a empty candle. It looks like i get more power from this that from earth. But more the cement become dry, less mA i get. The cement is a fast one, it need only 2min to be hard, the pictures and the video are taken only some minutes after.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYE78rfkBT4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYE78rfkBT4)
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cosmicfarmer on August 05, 2009, 07:56:54 PM
Wow I take a nap and 5 pages get posted :-)
This forum is flying. 

I apologize for not reading the stubblefield forum, but keeping up with energetic forum, Youtube, AND this forum is more then a full time job!  That, and I am moving to japan shortly. 

I think the trick is to take a ground sensor's signal, pass it through an amplifier and flyback transformer (you pay the power), and then broadcast that back into the ground how ever you like. The signal will be in phase with earth, and when 2 signals are in phase, energy transfer happens. So imagine all the energy DEEP DOWN that there would be no way you could get at with the deepest pipes... is now in your machine's circuits! So, any metal in the ground within a large distance will have immense power, volts and amps. (maybe?) You will be putting back into earth its own signal, amped. This is what I imagine the magnifying transmitter was. Almost reverse of what people are trying here. Most ideas I have read so far (sorry if I havn't read them all ) are passive systems and are showing incredible results, but I have yet to see an active system like I said above. 

That EER Tower idea which shows increased power in the earth is groovy, your are one step away from making the coolest ground powered flashlight ever. All you need now is a ergonomic case. Even have a + and - plug for charging batteries... but then you need a charge controller... bah

"No More Batteries EVER! You dont even need to SHAKE IT! Just dig a hole, put (product name) in the EARTH, and in 10 minutes you will have FULL POWER!! No more poisioning the sea with chemicals! No more over expensive batteries! "

I would call it Ninja Light, because its quiet and stealthy.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 05, 2009, 08:31:27 PM
Smokey:

This is interesting as I have never tried multiple neg. electrodes.  I actually have two positive electrodes on my set-up now (for about 1.5 years now) and I got an increase in both volts (not much ) and mA's. (pretty decent increase)
...
What if you had 1,000 paper clips out there?  2,000?  I believe you can solder to a paper clip right so the hook-up would not be that hard to do.  I would like to hear Jim's view on this.


Bill
I think I tried this on both sides a little and I have 2 right now, one being a NS coil, but

It never in the world occurred to me that some thin pieces of wire would be enough. Here I am the minimalist in the crowd, at I sure missed this one.

Thank you Sm0ky2

I will cut some wire and solder it together for the tops and solder the tops to a wire to add to the EB. So much fun... what a great group!

Thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 05, 2009, 08:54:19 PM
Last one for the night, Video 3

I have removed the LED off the series EER cells.

Both scopes now show identical waveforms.

jim
Excellent work jim!

I was about to post that I thought it was the led smoothing out the wave and there you did it!
I have watched a spiky wave change to a smooth one a lot like the one you show, when the leds are in the circuit many times (not all times, though) while looking at joule thief secondary waves.

Nice work!
====

BTW
jim and Bill,
I made those ultra short videos in raw format which makes them enormous. less than one second is what happens without compression.
Maybe "real player" can open up a .mov file without taking over your computer. If so, I can post little videos here that you can see. Would you be willing to try opening one I posted before in real player and let me know?

====
@cosmic farmer

I think you grocked something important.
I do not have a clue how to make an amplifier for this... unless Stubblefield did already.

I would like it if you could try this and do it before you get to japan, if possible. I do not think it makes any sense to use the power grid for this. a stand alone battery for amplifying and charging your EER is what would work.

It will be wonderful to have you be doing these things in Japan and adding them to this datalogging spot.

They do need to be uniform, however, so I am, also jim is using 2 different set-ups. One is a plain 2 probe setup to read the earth. (the datalogging experiment)

The other is my experimental one/ now 2/ perhaps soon to be 3!!

Thanks,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 06, 2009, 12:47:03 AM
Jeanna:

I have removed real player from my computer entirely.  (That really took some doing let me tell you.)  I can't even watch Jim's latest ones.  I am hunting for the proper codecs to add to wmp.  Real Player is a virus and I advise no one to use it.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 06, 2009, 01:18:08 AM
Oh , no kidding I guess using a mac really insulates me.

MK1 offered this up a while back
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-windows.html (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-windows.html)

This is the link to the free open source player VLC
I don't know what it will open. This page is for w2000 but there is a link right there for earlier versions.

Quote
====
The cross-platform open-source multimedia framework, player and server

VLC media player is a highly portable multimedia player and multimedia framework capable of reading most audio and video formats (MPEG-2, MPEG-4, H.264, DivX, MPEG-1, mp3, ogg, aac ...)
====
FOSS !!!!  :D

I am just wanting us all to be sort of undivided, you know.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 06, 2009, 03:12:38 AM
Jeanna:

I have removed real player from my computer entirely.  (That really took some doing let me tell you.)  I can't even watch Jim's latest ones.  I am hunting for the proper codecs to add to wmp.  Real Player is a virus and I advise no one to use it.

Bill

true words of wisdom.  i removed that a few years back and never touched it since.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on August 06, 2009, 03:25:32 AM
The first earth battery array perhaps ?

http://www.theage.com.au/travel/its-a-mystery-plain-and-simple-20090730-e2mq.html

Regards...

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 06, 2009, 05:43:33 AM
I cannot think of a really 'economical' way to post what I have put together today, so I will just post it.
I have been wanting to compare the 3 types of earth battery I have been looking at through the scope.
So I made sure I took a picture of every resolution of each type of battery.
I put the pix up in a row and snapped a maequeed screenshot. They are in the same order in each pic.
Every time you see one of these you can know that the one on the left is the plain Earth batteryCu=Zn-, the one in the middle is the 30 foot EBCarbon+Zn-with one Stubblefield generator added to the zn on the south end. the one on the right is that same thing with another Stubblefield generator added to the North end. These have been changing as they are in the ground more. I won't be going into that, however. Please have a look.
The captions remind you of the screen resolution and the order, but it is cryptic.
I will go from the closest resolution and end up with the farthest away where you will see the whole wave.
It is fractals to be sure and it looks very useable for someone who knows how to work with inductors and tanks. (not me yet, but soon!)

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 06, 2009, 05:46:39 AM
more
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 06, 2009, 05:52:36 AM
The first earth battery array perhaps ?

http://www.theage.com.au/travel/its-a-mystery-plain-and-simple-20090730-e2mq.html

Regards...

more likely, the ancient indian tribes used these to gather rain-water.  sandstone by itself would not make an effective EB, and the indian tribes would not have had a use for 'electricity'
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 06, 2009, 05:59:03 AM
and almost finished
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 06, 2009, 06:24:20 AM
All right that is it.
There are 2 more but I missed the plain EB so I will not post them so not to be confusing.
I think these are very interesting in how similar they are and also how different they are.
the voltages have been growing together over the time I have been doing this, for one thing.
Another is that when I first put the NS#10 at the north end adding it to the one at the south end, the voltage went down, I was not sure if it would ever be successful, but it is now coming up. And, not just coming up, I see more coherence with it than with the one at the south only.
I think.
I just did this and I will be studying it too.

I see something interesting on the next to last pic, the middle one has no real order to it. yet the one to the right has a wave that is discernable... like the plain EB on the left.

I also want you to notice this.
I made everything in the same row the same resolution of time which is the left to right element, but I had to use a different resolution for the volts which is the up and down direction. I used the finest/closest resolution to see something on the plain EB waves, but if I kept it on that resolution with the NS generators added the waves went off the chart! so I reduced it as you can see 10mv per division on the stubblefield ones,  rather than 5mv per division on the plain one.

Please look closely. This was a lot of work and I will not be doing all this any more. ..just a couple of levels. I wanted to get a handle on what it looks like, but one of these is quite enough!

Thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 06, 2009, 06:45:34 AM
Hi all,
Gotta rush off to town, my youngest daughter presented us all with a new grandson just about an hour ago. Mother and kiddo doing well. ;D ;D ;D

he has blond to reddish hair,

I hope to be back soon to read the p39 onwards  :)


Updater, for my EER battery in the back yard, got it to give out at a squeeze 11.04 volts for a split second, but holding at 10.24 volts.


Bill, I did the experiment we spoke about this morning, took the 7 copper cells onto the house roof, about 4 meters above the ground.
No change in voltage, but didnt do a scope reading, as I forgot, sorry mate.

 This is for tomorrow sometime.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cosmicfarmer on August 06, 2009, 06:58:05 AM
@ electricme

CONGRATULATIONS Grandfather!

----------------
Cosmic Grokage. Heinlein lives on.

Are we staring at the heartbeat of a living planet ?!
Good work on the scope shots.

How far is the closest 60hz signal to those EER's?   I actually can't escape them. I try. My body is almost resonating at 60hz and its disgusting. It wont get any better in japan. 

Anyway, you have my promise the first patch of ground I can hammer a rod in and entrain it I will get a webcam up to watch the scope. Might have to extend my oscope probes somehow to escape the 60hz...   A friend has a small garden... Hooray for gardens! ;D
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: nightshade on August 06, 2009, 12:39:16 PM
electricme

congrats to the new family member and nice to see your

new eer setup looks cool nice voltage
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 06, 2009, 01:45:53 PM
@ cosmicfarmer,
Ha ha, I also have noticed this, just try 4 days away and see what happens, now this is experience talking, lol
 
Wow I take a nap and 5 pages get posted :-)
This forum is flying. 

I apologize for not reading the stubblefield forum, but keeping up with energetic forum, Youtube, AND this forum is more then a full time job!  That, and I am moving to japan shortly. 

I think the trick is to take a ground sensor's signal, pass it through an amplifier and flyback transformer (you pay the power), and then broadcast that back into the ground how ever you like. The signal will be in phase with earth, and when 2 signals are in phase, energy transfer happens. So imagine all the energy DEEP DOWN that there would be no way you could get at with the deepest pipes... is now in your machine's circuits! So, any metal in the ground within a large distance will have immense power, volts and amps. (maybe?) You will be putting back into earth its own signal, amped. This is what I imagine the magnifying transmitter was. Almost reverse of what people are trying here. Most ideas I have read so far (sorry if I havn't read them all ) are passive systems and are showing incredible results, but I have yet to see an active system like I said above. 

That EER Tower idea which shows increased power in the earth is groovy, your are one step away from making the coolest ground powered flashlight ever. All you need now is a ergonomic case. Even have a + and - plug for charging batteries... but then you need a charge controller... bah

"No More Batteries EVER! You dont even need to SHAKE IT! Just dig a hole, put (product name) in the EARTH, and in 10 minutes you will have FULL POWER!! No more poisioning the sea with chemicals! No more over expensive batteries! "

I would call it Ninja Light, because its quiet and stealthy.
I think everything you mentioned above has some merit, good thinking and have a safe trip to Japan, don't forget to login here when you are able to. ;)

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 06, 2009, 03:58:33 PM
@Cosmicfarmer and Nightshade,

Thankyou for the Grandfather stuff, TA, cool too.
The parents called him Zachary Orsome .....surname will have to wait lol.

This is my 5th grand kiddie, but there is happennings down the road with the little fellow that I am not happy with, carnt say any more just yet, if you pray, start prayen.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: nightshade on August 06, 2009, 04:36:04 PM
Jeanna

you have some interesting thoughts there concerning those fractuls at

different frequencys your seeing could chaos theory be involved here at all ?

I havent tryed inductors yet on my eer setup but have used potentiometers

resistors good for verying voltage on eers
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 06, 2009, 05:57:10 PM
Jim:

Happy Grandfather day down there!  Zachary is in my prayers.

Excellent work on your EER voltage increases. Run that through a JT circuit and look out for the sparks.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 06, 2009, 06:49:00 PM
Jeanna

you have some interesting thoughts there concerning those fractals at different frequencies you're seeing could chaos theory be involved here at all ?
Hi nightshade,
First I want to appologise for calling you nightlife! and welcome you on your own merit!  :-[

Is it still called a theory?
I think it is a mathematical way to express what is seen in nature. I remember that theory was very hot in the late 80's early 90's. There were photos of the julia set in every magazine.
It is also a favorite with the crop circles makers. They come in and poof a julia set has appeared on the crop field.

But what I am talking about is how they repeat at repeating intervals. And I think it is not doubles in all cases either.
At first I thought I was seeing a simple harmonic, but when the same design figure appears way inside another figure... I call it fractals, like, for instance, the julia set.

Quote
I haven't tried inductors yet on my eer setup but have used potentiometers

resistors good for varying voltage on eers

How have you used the pots?

Except for the fact that the stubblefield generator IS an inductor, I haven't tried that either.
I am think little ones to take advantage of the very high frequency then adding ... I am quickly trying to learn about inductors asap.

In the first youtube video I was showing the little green NS generator because that is the one I had in my hands when I turned on the joule thief and saw the scope come alive.

That has an additional pair of inductors wrapped around a couple of free wires.
As detected by a DMM, the one wrapped around the iron wire shows an increased voltage difference when compared to (I think it is ) the center bolt even when that is not in the ground.

I need to re-read my notes from last year.
I did things that I knew were important but at the time had no clue what they meant. This was one of them.

Thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 06, 2009, 11:49:00 PM
@ Jeanna

i think the NS coil (at least somewhat) is operating similar to my simple EB with soft steel and copper.
only his uses the inductive portion to amplify the effect by coiling the 2 wires bifilar. (something i havent tried yet myself)

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 07, 2009, 01:57:31 AM
Hi everybody,
I have a few pix for todays report.
I did not add water and the volts are down some.
I do not think it is making any or much of a difference to the ac portion of this element.
This is the Plain Cu+,Zn- EB with just 2 probes in the ground. It is showing that it is qualifying to be an EER.

(not a lot of mv)

here are today's pix.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: kamax on August 07, 2009, 03:03:22 AM
New test 48h after from my earth battery not in the ground :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th5L2S247Sc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th5L2S247Sc)

It still works pretty good.

I made other battery with cement but i don't know if i must post my result here, they have no earth into: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpliDONnXuM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpliDONnXuM)
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 07, 2009, 03:45:02 AM
Hi Kamax,

In the crystal battery thread I made a lot of things like the ones you are making.
They all, without exception stopped working when they were dry.
There is serious galvanic stuff going on inside the wet cement which is very alkaline, and it dissolves the aluminum. You may have noticed this. It takes very little time to dissolve lots of aluminum.

I am not saying this to discourage you.

Have you no piece of ground to stick some probes?
There is something really special that happens in the ground.
You could do your cement experiments along side the earth probes.
We could use your datalogging information.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on August 07, 2009, 04:14:55 AM
@Electricme, Congratulations Grandpa, hope all is well.  ;D

@Jeanna, Thank you for all that data must have taken some time to compile. I'll have to look through it closer. Does you scope have any way to record the raw data(.csv)?

@Kamax, Great videos, it is really inspiring to see it still working 48hours later.

@All, I've put up one of my "other" projects that I am working on here.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7907.msg195803#msg195803
I'm trying to find a way to power this project with EB's so 9v 130ma is my personal goal.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 07, 2009, 04:15:00 AM
85 probes in the ground now...
i gradually realized that straightening papersclips is a painfully monotonous chore...

so i picked up a 100-ft spool of galvanized steel wire.
seems to work pretty much the same for volts. but only half as much current as from a paperclip. so i have to use 2 to 1.
but i save time and fingertips this way, and allows me to continue my efforts.

i'll post more results tonight after im done adding to this mess i call an "earth battery"...
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 07, 2009, 04:42:00 AM
...
@Jeanna, Thank you for all that data must have taken some time to compile. I'll have to look through it closer. Does you scope have any way to record the raw data(.csv)?

...
Nope, sorry.
It is purely hand held, but it is a real scope according the box. Not a rendering from a dmm, which is why I bought it.( Also, I wanted one that could go out to eb's!)

I think all the numerical information is on the right hand side in that column.

It is reading peak to peak voltage. Did you see my youtube explanation?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfwMFrqGtaE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfwMFrqGtaE)
That might be a helpful way to introduce you to this scope and what I am looking for.
You have a real scope don't you?

jeanna

Edit:
I saw your post and your dream on the link.
so great go for it !

mmm love those leggos
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: kamax on August 07, 2009, 06:06:18 AM
Hi Kamax,

In the crystal battery thread I made a lot of things like the ones you are making.
They all, without exception stopped working when they were dry.
There is serious galvanic stuff going on inside the wet cement which is very alkaline, and it dissolves the aluminum. You may have noticed this. It takes very little time to dissolve lots of aluminum.

I am not saying this to discourage you.

Have you no piece of ground to stick some probes?
There is something really special that happens in the ground.
You could do your cement experiments along side the earth probes.
We could use your datalogging information.

thank you,

jeanna
Thanks for the info jeanna, that's what i think too about cement. More the cells are dry less they give power but i want to see it by myself and i have make some cement/earth mix  :P
I have seen some pics of the marcus reid crystal battery and some looks very close to mine. He's battery was tested and give output, not a lot, but for many years.

I don't live in a house so it's a little hard to put someting in the ground :(

Someone has tested with the house copper pipe and the ground ?
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 07, 2009, 06:45:35 AM
He's battery was tested and give output, not a lot, but for many years.
Yes, we were not successful, but it sure was a lot of fun mixing those things together.
I think Ian had the best one. He charged his then put it into the deep freeze.

Quote
Someone has tested with the house copper pipe and the ground ?
You could put 2 probes into a big flowerpot with soil and take measurements every day.

We need that kind of control for our tests. You will get some millivolts. Maybe 1 volt. If you look at localjoe's first post when he opened up his thread, you will see that is what he did.

But, it would be helpful to have some people make in-the-house flowerpot batteries to compare with in-the-ground batteries, so please do this.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 07, 2009, 07:55:58 AM
Jeanna:

Excellent idea.  This is exactly why I had asked Jim to do an out of ground on the table test, just so we might be able to ascertain the difference the earth currents are making on these devices.  It would make a good control and if a lot of folks did it, we could see if the percentage of gain would hold to some sort of constant a various locations on the planet, or if it would be all over the place.

I remember testing my original set-up out of the ground and did not get much.  Looking back, when I set the new one up, I should have put a meter to it.  Oh well, just shows my hindsight is still working, ha ha.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jdcmusicman on August 07, 2009, 08:36:00 AM
Hey folks I been reading all these post for almost a month now , and be doing some test myself..
I haven't done any of the EER out in the ground yet but have been doing isolated cells inside the house , some with plain dirt some with a vinegar mix and some with a mix of magnesium citrate(laxitive)lol....
I been using several combinations of different types of metals ..

#1 ..Copper/Galvanized flashing
In a ice tray wires in series with about 2 tablespoons of vinegar will light 2 bright white leds(12000 mcd) for 1 week till dead , after this all the zinc is consumed and voltage drops way down ...
Open volts are  approx 12.04 ,shorted ma reading around 8ma , it stays pretty constant for 4 days then starts dropping off...

#2 ..Copper/Galvanized flashing in a 6" x 1 1/4" pvc pipe with flashing all the way around the tube with a 7"x 1/2" copper tube in the middle with the laxative ,6 of these wired 3 in series and the 2 banks of 3 in parallel ..I build this 10 days ago,and have not been running any lights off it.
At start I had 3.56v open and 102 ma shorted..
10 days later I have 2.52v open with 42ma shorted..
I have the dirt packed very tight, I also charged a big cap with this for approx 8 hrs and had almost 1 amp at around 3v open ..

#3 A small tube cell similar to the ice tray with about same results..

#4 A sandwich style that is only 5/8" thick by 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" , with copper/zinc and cardboard no dirt ..Light a bright white led 12000mcd for 6 hrs solid till the cardboard was almost dry, have re-wet it and get the same intensity as the start ..(still testing on this one)
I soaked the cardboard in water with 1 tbs of the laxative ..
open volts 3.74v 6 ma shorted to start after approx 8 hrs running a light i still get 3.74v open and 2 ma shorted...

#5 Stainless steel/ aluminum no electrolyte  just dirt ...
SS pipe 7 "x 2" with a 3/4" aluminum pipe in the center ..
.86 v open 8 ma shorted to start 2 days later  .44 volts 2.6 ma shorted ..
still testing ....Just another note on these 2 metals adding vinegar or laxative has no affect as it does with the copper/galvanized ..I find this interesting....

One other interesting thing I have noticed is that I get better reading during the day than I do at night, whether it be outside or inside .
Any one got any input on this ? Is sunlight having some affect on it ?
I would like to know ..

Well anyway this is just some of the stuff I am playing with right now ,I am planning on trying carbon rods as soon as I can get some ..And am also looking to get away from adding electrolyte, So far the the no elite works best with the SS/aluminum..
I have also done SS/zinc it has low volts but decent ma readings..
I hope this adds , probably been done by some one else , but I figured I would share it ...

Thanks Jdcmusicman
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: nightshade on August 07, 2009, 03:03:53 PM
Jeanna

connect the potentiometer onto your (positive)  wire so it's in series with   

your earth battery then you can adjust your voltage they

were used back in the days when they used the earth batteries to power

the telegraph stations from what I have read they also used

inductors as well  I would love to get a look at some of the equipment they

used back on those earth battery's

                                                shane
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on August 07, 2009, 04:06:25 PM
Quote
One other interesting thing I have noticed is that I get better reading during the day than I do at night, whether it be outside or inside .
Any one got any input on this ? Is sunlight having some affect on it ?
Seems in ground probes do basically the same. It is an electromagnetic field from the Sun which is radiant energy . I guess you could do  experiments in the day by putting it in the refrigerator for a few hours. I would let it reach its max before putting it in. 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 07, 2009, 06:37:37 PM
Hey folks I been reading all these post for almost a month now , and be doing some test myself..


#1 ..Copper/Galvanized flashing ...electrolyte...

#2 ..Copper/Galvanized flashing in a 6" x 1 1/4" pvc pipe with flashing all the way around the tube with a 7"x 1/2" copper tube in the middle with the laxative ,6 of these wired 3 in series and the 2 banks of 3 in parallel ..I build this 10 days ago,and have not been running any lights off it.
At start I had 3.56v open and 102 ma shorted..
10 days later I have 2.52v open with 42ma shorted..
I have the dirt packed very tight, I also charged a big cap with this for approx 8 hrs and had almost 1 amp at around 3v open ..

#3 A small tube cell similar to the ice tray with about same results..

#4 A sandwich style that is only 5/8" thick by 1 1/2" x 1 1/2, with copper/zinc and cardboard no dirt .

#5 Stainless steel/ aluminum no electrolyte  just dirt ...

...I get better reading during the day than I do at night, ... Is sunlight having some affect on it ?
I would like to know ..

...,I am planning on trying carbon rods as soon as I can get some ..

Thanks Jdcmusicman

Nice report jdcmusicman.
Thank you... it is all good information.

#2 is the closest to our working setup.
Would you be willing to put one together with just the 2 metals and no electrolyte for this test we are doing?

The test here is with similar probes in the ground, (those being copper and zinc or zinc dipped roofing nail). We are looking at the global changes on a daily (almost) basis. So, everything else must be as close as possible to everyone else's  for our results to be valid.

[I have 2 setups. One for here, and one that is experimental. I try to keep the reports of the experimental one on one of the earth battery threads to keep this particular datalogging easier to see.]

As far as the sun is concerned I have seen differences with it, but I am not able to quantify anything even after all my tests. The sun or water make a difference, but without a way to accurately measure the moisture there is no way to quantify the sun.

If you want to , you could make an extra test for this and for us here. You could use a fully saturated (=dripping water wet) soil and compare sunlight and moon phases too. [The magnetic pull from the moon is enough to make the tides rise and fall on the enormous body of water we call ocean, so, I bet it can pull some magnetic effects on our probes too.] You might put the soaking wet soil+probes in plastic bags to maintain even moisture better. But, do not move the probes once they are in the earth, as they seem to entrain in their place.

And, welcome. I am glad to have you here,

Quote from: nightshade

connect the potentiometer onto your (positive)  wire so it's in series with   your earth battery then you can adjust your voltage
they were used back in the days when they used the earth batteries to power the telegraph stations from what I have read
What an interesting concept that you would want to add a resistor when we have been trying to get the voltage as high as we can. I wonder what the reason was?

Quote
they also used inductors as well  I would love to get a look at some of the equipment they used back on those earth battery's
                                                shane
me too.

Thanks for this info

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 07, 2009, 06:50:41 PM
@ JDC:

Very nice work and welcome to our group here.  It is always good to have another experimenter join us.

Jeanna:

Great point about the moon phases, it never occurred to me.  Night and day difference are already being reported but, good thinking on the moon.  I would guess that it would have some effect.  As to if it is measurable or not, well, we will have to see.  Excellent thinking.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 07, 2009, 08:33:30 PM
Thanks Bill.

Now for an early visual treat.
It started to spritz (Oh heavenly!) while I was doing today's tests. You can see it on the screen. I stopped but managed to finish this plain probes part.
There were very tall spikes today.
I saw these 2 or 3 days ago. I stopped them to see. 18mv in a background of 6.5mv without them.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 07, 2009, 08:36:53 PM
@ Jeana:

Nice spikes there.  Very clear shots of your scope again too.  I wonder what might be causing those spikes one day and not another?  I think this is a very complicated puzzle we are attempting to solve here.

Nice work.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 07, 2009, 10:09:49 PM
... I wonder what might be causing those spikes one day and not another?  I think this is a very complicated puzzle we are attempting to solve here.

I wonder too.
I have been looking for them too.
We have a new puppy next door. She has been barking a bark that sounds like she is in pain.
I noticed it when I was doing tests the other day and I was not sure they were not the puppy, but the timing was wrong. I saw the spike then heard the bark... I thought.
Today she was inside and the spikes are definitely not the puppy.

They are sharp and skinny. The scope shows them but I cannot get them on the hold button. I need some good luck. I would love to see them and count the frequency. But I think it is random frequency.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 07, 2009, 11:22:19 PM
i found a used scope, surplus from a university that recently upgraded its' equipment.

should be here in next week sometime and i'll be able to assist more in the data collection process.

i have temporarily removed my JT circuit from the earth battery, to test my NS coil.
which seems to be powering it nicely (at least when the NS is freshly soaked with water)

my EB has over 100 probes now on the negative side, but the current seems to have capped out between 8-12 ma.
fluxuates from day to day...   
BUT,  the NS coil produces the same power with far less components - so thats where my JT sits for now.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cosmicfarmer on August 07, 2009, 11:42:28 PM
I have acted on neighbors who hold animals trapped for long periods of time...
I have even wrote letters to people who bought trees and then didn't plant them. just let them sit out and dry....  Some people can not feel what they are doing.


About the potentiometer,  I could imagine these telegraph machines being left there for a very long time, becoming very entrained, and possibly having high voltage.  You would want some protection I am sure. 

 About the flowerpot experiment - I grew lettuce indoors, 15 pots and each one got 2 zinc screws and a peice of copper flashing, making it a battery. Volts were about 2, it lit a LED constantly. The led would flicker though...  I scoped it, and it was flatline DC. It might wave up or down as the wetness changed, but it was fun to see my status light bright up after I water the plants.   I can already feel plants thank me when I water them, and the light was just more satisfaction.  Maybe have some sort of opto-switch to sense the LED and apply more water as needed...  contraptions...

About earth energy - What do you think is a conductor? an insulator?  Could I make a zinc/copper 1 cell flowerpot battery, monitor it, then stick the whole thing in the ground, how long do you think it would take for the earth energy to flow in?   Plants use earth energy obviously, look at the difference between "wild" and "indoor" strains of any plant.  Might not want to use a plastic flowerpot.. Maybe one carved out of rock? A steel one might act itself as a probe... Ceramic, who knows?

I will try this.

Anyway, seems like Jeanna is doing this right ;-) Love the scope shots.  The spikes might be lightning strikes somewhere? a storm closeby? Or someone doing high voltage research?  If the planet was reacting to the dog's pain that would break my heart... but I don't think that's the case. High energetic gamma rays smashing into something closeby?  Nukes going off around the world?  You almost never get told about any of the ones set off underground / undersea, and those matter the most.  I was in the navy for a while and subs do deathmatch with large ordinance all the time at the north / south pole...

That is why I think this current application is more of a ground sensor then a source of raw power. A different window to look through. See all sorts of stuff if you're careful.  I noticed one time (back in the day :P ) that my EB volts dropped by more then half... Took a walk and my poor forest was being torn down for buildings. So I know plant energy plays a part. Electroculture: The Electric Tickle says you can collect plant energy with a probe 1 foot north of a tree.

I love this forum.

Take it easy.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 08, 2009, 02:08:07 AM
Cosmic:

Nice post.  I would offer you one word of caution about eating plants (if they are indeed the edible kind) where you have had a galvanic reaction going on in the soil.  The zinc will be stripped from the screws and may (I am not a chemist) create some toxic by-product.

Jeanna is a biologist and knows world's more about chemistry than I ever will...maybe she can add something to this warning.

Back in the beginning of the original EB topic, Stefan (Forum owner and moderator) warned us about the effects of copper degrading in the ground due to galvanic reactions.

I agree about the sensor part of your post which is the reason Jim wanted to start this topic.  Maybe, we can see earthquakes or volcanic eruptions before they start, or at least see the effects on our systems when they do occur.  I really think that we will be able to "see" a long way away.  What we see on our scopes may not be local.  Who knows how far away those spike originate?  Like a wave on the ocean that hits our shore began thousands of miles away.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 08, 2009, 02:48:14 AM
i found a used scope, surplus from a university that recently upgraded its' equipment.

should be here in next week sometime and i'll be able to assist more in the data collection process.

i have temporarily removed my JT circuit from the earth battery, to test my NS coil.
which seems to be powering it nicely (at least when the NS is freshly soaked with water)

my EB has over 100 probes now on the negative side, but the current seems to have capped out between 8-12 ma.
fluxuates from day to day...   
BUT,  the NS coil produces the same power with far less components - so thats where my JT sits for now.

Smokey:

Nice job on finding the surplus scope. (I got mine from Ebay)  Now you will really have some fun with this.  I hope you post your waveforms and list your location and we can add that to the database.  I'll bet you see spikes as well, and other weird stuff.  I look forward to seeing your shots.  Nice job.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 08, 2009, 05:05:40 AM

i had some thoughts about those spikes, after watching Bill's video and slowing it down to a slow rate.

im talking about the 6-7 seconds where he actually seperated the triphase and you can clearly see all three.

they are not "exactly" 120-degrees out of phase. and may in fact differ very slightly in frequency. this could occasionally cause constructive interference with one another.

i wish i had more footage of that to examine. but it seems most of the other recorded scope videos show the jumbled mess the 3 waves create together. i would add some advice on how to best seperate them like that again, but until i have my scope here, i wouldnt have a clue.

i think Bill actually says what hes doing in the video when this occurs, but that was like 20 pages ago ... would have to search to find it again, as i didnt save the videos after i messed with them.

its possible that when the waves cross at their peaks, a spike occurs. which should be happening at distinct intervals, though when you have 3 off-set waveforms, these intervals might appear to be random, when in fact its multiple pattern occuring.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 08, 2009, 05:13:28 AM
my limited knowledge of chemistry ( which sits somewhere between advanced rocketry and nuclear physics) tells me that the galvonic deposits in the soil, if any, would be an inert compound of zinc oxide and zinc phosphate.

neither of which are harmfull if eaten, and if i remember correctly, both of these are intentionally inserted into commercial foods and dental products.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 08, 2009, 05:13:44 AM
Wouldn't I see the spikes every day then?
The day that I was out there for 1 1.2 hours I did not see one of these. I think that was the day after I saw the first spikes.
My best guess is distant lightning. Not too distant. The sky on both spike days had turned grey.

But, I live a mile away from a military fort and to my mind that is the next best guess after distant lightning.

And, that is only because the bombs are clearly audible when they are being dropped and there was no sound from the fort except copters. ugh!

But, I will continue to report them when they occur.
I think this is one of the purposes of this datalogging, isn't it?

hmm,
I might have made a video that first day. I will look.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 08, 2009, 05:23:30 AM
@ Jeanna,

depending on the difference (possibly very slight difference) in frequency, it may be several hours or even a few days before the waves line up just right to cause construvtive interference.
one tell-tale sign will be a gradual increase in spike intensity, to a peak, then a tapering off as the spike eventually go away.


what im most interested in,  is adjusting the division / gain
so that all 3 waveforms appear simultaneously, overlapping one another.

unfortunately, shortly after Bill achieved this, he seemed more interested in combining the signals into one semi-coherent wave.......

a feat which i feel should be done through phase-modulation, not a mere manipulation of our scope readings.. but that for WAY down the road when we unlock a few more of these mysteries..

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 08, 2009, 05:31:04 AM
I am glad you want to do this, Sm0ky2,
I can stop the action to look at the still image, and when I see 2 or 3 waves simultaneously, I don't get them when I stop the scope.
It happens at a relatively slow frequency (for the scope), like 20msec, so while my eyes might not be able to see clearly, the scope which is sampling much faster like 10MHz ought to be able to see it.

Once I stopped it with 2 but only once and never 3.
I wonder if it is something having to do with the power in? Mine is a battery so there is no power cord interference.

Anyway, I am sure you will be able to sort this out when you get your scope. How cool. You work fast!

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 08, 2009, 05:55:40 AM
i still struggle with my conventional electronics "training"....

have to learn to let things go sometimes..  preexisting knowledge can be our biggest downfall, when we're playing out on the fringe..
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: markdansie on August 08, 2009, 05:59:54 AM
@ Geanna and Pirate
once again thanks for your posts, i do enjoy following your projects.
I am off topic here but given your past projects I wanted to draw your attention to the potential use of left handed materials.
There are many sites that explain the technology and some applications like

http://physics.ucsd.edu/lhmedia/whatis.html

I was looking at why the 3kw ERR device of Dr Schaartz couldnt run ie the collector area for the power output seemed beyond my logical paramaters etc and the running times were very short. However it did interest me enough to studyy up on these materials and the possability of creating a battery or capacitor device using them.
I ask you have a look  these left handed materials as they do some stunning things with them with optics and I am sure with our collective imaginations we might figure a way of applying them to our projects.
I think when you read up on them you might see why there may be some potential given both your areas of interest.
Kind Regards
Mark

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 08, 2009, 06:06:09 AM
@ Mark:

Thank you, I will have a look.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 08, 2009, 06:25:45 AM
...
http://physics.ucsd.edu/lhmedia/whatis.html

..
I think when you read up on them you might see why there may be some potential given both your areas of interest.
Kind Regards
Mark
Thank you Mark,
I actually did follow both links you provided on the 3kW thread.
They are sort of out of reach for normal folks, are they not?
I mean. The physics was explained all right, but it was a project paid for by the military.
And where is such a thing to be found?
One of those links said or implied that all that is necessary is to wind it right, but there was no hint about how it was to be done.
So, while it may be a great technology, I do not know what we would do about it since it is unavailable.
Unless you know something more....

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 08, 2009, 06:41:46 AM
speaking of winding it right, i just realized, ( being left anded and midly dislexic) that i wound the primary of my NS coil in the wrong direction....

i just wound a secondary (#30) in the "correct" direction around the whole thing.
its not very pretty,.. because of the two different sized wires and cotton thread and all..

going to play around with it tonight.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 08, 2009, 07:25:19 AM
ok well aside from its inherent use as a "wet battery"....

my NS is completely useless. the hard tempered steel i used as the core, has too high permeability to allow induction in the secondary ( or something to that effect) as i cannot draw any voltage in the secondary wire, at all, whatsoever....

even while its hooked in series through the EB-JT circuit, and current is flowing.....  i'll have to re-make that thing later when i find a softer core.   perhaps i'll try to reinvent the wheel and create a new type of steel/copper coil-inductor, based on the NS principals.... something for the thinking block..

the "dry" NS has no discernable effect on my earth battery, in any concievable configuration..  going to put that to rest for now...

EB/JT is still running strong though with 8 LEDs.

with the exception or heavy dew and/or rain - its a fairly maintanence-free power source for my garden lights :)

ive capped out the (-) side, i think to get any further increase of power i have to start adding to the (+) side, and increase the mass of both sides together.  would be nice to get a full amp out of this thing, im 1/100th of the way there...
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: markdansie on August 09, 2009, 12:04:15 AM
@Jeanna,
thanks for having a look. There is some information out there and if I find something i will let you know. I was looking at the possabilities from a more abstract perspective.
However I agree with you. Its a little too complex and will put it in once of those places for future review.
PS i live in Australia and notice you are in Washington State. I worked there for a while and lived on Mercer Island. i really enjoyed it there.
Mark
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jdcmusicman on August 09, 2009, 04:57:25 AM
@Jeanna,

Thanks for your input..
Today I had a friend give me some free copper ,pretty good bit , Some time in the next day or two I will make two isolated cells with nothing but dirt , and plan to do one dry and one dripping wet and and get some readings that way .
I am going to do copper/zinc and stainless steel/aluminum and possibly copper/aluminum..Just for comparison ..
I would like to find the best volt/ma reading with longest life ..

I checked my stainless/aluminum today again and it still had .54volts 2ma shorted (night time)Going to check it midday tomorrow and see if its different.

I am almost certain (well not whole lot) but more less guessing the sun and/or moon or both are having an effect on this stuff ,I really want to know for sure tho ..

Hopefully by next weekend I can have some good data to post...
I really think this stuff has potential even tho the amounts of electric are small , but like the old saying "Pennies make dollar" so in comparison "Milli amps makes amps " ..

Thanks Jdcmusicman

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 09, 2009, 05:49:58 AM
@Jeanna,

Thanks for your input..
Today I had a friend give me some free copper ,pretty good bit , Some time in the next day or two I will make two isolated cells with nothing but dirt , and plan to do one dry and one dripping wet and and get some readings that way .
Great!
For these tests that is perfect.
For this thread, as I already said, getting the most is not the point.
---

In your search to get the highest volts and mA, be sure to make the combination of Carbon and Magnesium.
(I use welding rods for the carbon.
Bill has a fluted welding rod which he sawed into 2 pieces  and which he uses for the north). For the south, maybe you or a friend can find a magwheel from the 70's. Bill gets almost 2 volts out of his C,Mg EER all the time.

I am looking forward to seeing your results.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 09, 2009, 07:24:24 AM
magnesuim wheel??

only Mg source i know of is ignition strips, which im not sure would be good for this, they're flexible and break easily.

also,.. im curious to know wether or not the Mg is consumed in this process??

i have plenty of small carbon rods ( i salvaged from 6v batteries)
those are what i use for my electrolyzers.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on August 09, 2009, 02:49:41 PM
Quote
magnesuim wheel??
For cars and trucks. Very expensive new. A hot water heater element would be cheaper. Most of these are made from magnesium as they attract impurities in the water to stop rust.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 09, 2009, 06:31:55 PM
magnesuim wheel??
...
also,.. im curious to know wether or not the Mg is consumed in this process??

Yes, they were a popular high end thing in the 70-80's
(So popular that people in Boston would go to their car and find it on blocks with the wheels removed... Love that Boston!)

I too would like to know if they are consumed, which is the reason a thin plating of magnesium is a better idea for tests.

Then again the microbes in the soil could continuously add ions that replenish the Mg.
It would be really nice to know.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 09, 2009, 07:15:01 PM
I searched and searched all over the net for a long time looking for a source of magnesium.  I too saw those mag. anodes for water heaters.  Most are not made of magnesium now though, the ones carried in Home Depot are made of al.

I found by reading articles on the net that a good source is any bottled gas company that set tanks underground.  They use magnesium anodes to attach to the tanks to keep the galvanic action from eating the tanks.  This is where I found mine locally.  It is nothing more than a 5 pound solid block of magnesium in a canvas sack full of potash with a very heavy lead coming out of it.  It was like $40.00 which was cheaper than the water heater anodes I could find.

A really good source now is located on user Gadgetmall's website.  Just search for him on here because at the bottom of all of his posts, he has a link to his store.  He sells a nice sized carbon rod and a similar sized magnesium rod in his earth battery kit and it is very reasonably priced.  I think they are like 1" dia x 12" long or thereabouts.

***EDIT***  Here is a link:  http://www.sunpowerwindpower.com/documents/49.html (http://www.sunpowerwindpower.com/documents/49.html)


Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jdcmusicman on August 09, 2009, 07:23:11 PM
I just checked my stainless steel/aluminum cell in full sun ..
This one is just dirt no electrolyte and I have not been adding any water its just been sitting outside on my steps for days now ..
But anyway ..
Last night my readings were  .54 volts 2 ma shorted
Today in full sun  it is  .66 volts 3.2 ma shorted ..

This is a pretty good change in my opinion
So apparently It does better in the day than night .
Can't wait to get more data on this to be sure ..
This is exciting .I will try to build a copper/zinc one tonight and see how it performs between night/day..

Thanks Jdcmusicman

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 09, 2009, 07:54:20 PM
JDC:

That is good information to have.  Nice work.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 10, 2009, 07:04:10 AM
Hi everybody,
Do you remember a couple of days ago how I put up a comparison pic of 3 battery systems all in a row at each scope resolution so you could compare them?
Of course you do.
This is the direct link to the page I am referring to.
0.5us resolution.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7769.msg195645#msg195645 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7769.msg195645#msg195645)

I will post some more (not like that day however) of just this same resolution.
This is for yesterday and today
AND
it is comparing the plain EB with the EB=EER which has a Stubblefield generator added to both ends.
The ground was pretty dry 2 days ago and there was a light mist this morning and I am sure it had some effect, but it was not much water as water goes. The surface of the ground was dry.
So, 2 days 2 battery types 1 resolution.
(oh darn 2 days ago the earth battery alone was too low to see anything at .5us I just have 5ms.)
Still, it is worth seeing the comparison.

jeanna

The order goes like this
yesterday
EB vdc on DMM
EB 5ms
NS added on N and S .5us
today
EB vdc on DMM
EB .5us
NS added on N and S .5us

Big difference today the NS has almost 40mv consistently and the EB has about 7.5mV.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 10, 2009, 10:04:16 PM
Must be the whole earth is responding.
I just took today's measurements. It is normal on the plain EB, but the NS on both ends , although it has more according to the dmm (less for the past few days, but up a bit today) shows even lower than the plain EB.

Oh how to sort this out?
I hope someone else can get outside daily and give some reports.
I do not know if this is a local phenomenon? (military base nearby) or global? or what else?

The first 2 are plain EB
The last 3 are with added NS on each end.
This looks higher AS usual on the 5ms screen, but the next moment it fell and stayed low as you can see in the final pic the voltage is lower than with the plain EB

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 11, 2009, 12:51:55 AM
Jeanna:

You are not close to Mt. St. Helens are you?  Now you are going to ask me why I asked that and....I don't really know...just that you mentioned some funny readings up there.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 11, 2009, 04:33:19 AM

You are not close to Mt. St. Helens are you? ...

...just that you mentioned some funny readings up there.

I just found this link.
And I will keep it on a bookmark.

http://www.pnsn.org/recenteqs/Maps/Mount_St._Helens_eqs.htm

According to this there was a magnitude 2.0 eq on saturday morning at 10 am .. and at least 2 last month. I will check the camera times for saturday.
Good question, Bill.

I am not very far. It takes maybe 2 hours to get to the access road, perhaps 2 1/2, but that says little about how far by the crow or ufo or whatever you are flying these days.  ;)

I saw one or 2 hints that there were a couple of spikes today but not enough to be sure etc.

I once looked up to see what would be in the 1hz range. I was surprized to find out that the earthquake is 1hz.

 I wish some others would join in this. It is too bad xee2 doesn't have a scope. It would tell us a lot about what earthquakes look like pretty quickly.

I will have to stop in a month or so when the rains begin. I enjoy this so I will be continuing until then.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cosmicfarmer on August 11, 2009, 06:27:08 AM
I apologize for the non ground sensor reply.

@electricme. I saw out of the corner of my eye a news show clipping of some cops taking a 2 day old baby from some place I forgot, and instantly remembered you. Do you think you got to my news that fast, or is a rash of baby kidnappings occurring?

any clue why you were targeted?
I'm sorry this really disturbs me. I'll try to get over it but I wont rant here about it.
 ???
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on August 11, 2009, 11:08:07 PM
Hi all,

I've been pretty busy but I saw the Topic on the "Self Charging Capacitor".

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=400ea5b6a192a0e61e673407e74e220e&topic=7511.msg196715#new

When I saw that it has two plates with wax in between, it got me thinking. If you take a copper pipe with two end caps. Drill a hole in the end caps for the zinc rod which is isolated by rubber washers. Fill it with the wax, set a high voltage on the +/- terminals and let it harden inside the copper pipe. I wonder if a Electret earth battery can be made? So many projects to work on so little time. :)
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on August 12, 2009, 06:17:20 AM
Rheem always uses magnesium. American/Whirlpool always uses aluminum anodes.
Smaller Rv type heaters are cheaper. $15.00

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Camco-11553-RV-Magnesium-Anode-Rod-Fits-Atwood-Heaters_W0QQitemZ360159331824QQcmdZViewItem

https://www.makariosrv.com/products/Atwood-Anode-Rod-4-1%7B47%7D2%22-by-Camco.html
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 12, 2009, 09:44:38 PM
Hi everybody,
I have been using up hard drive space at a very rapid pace, so  this morning I spent some time clearing out old footage that was repeated etc.

Now, yesterday I found an earthquake site for pacific northwest folks. It covers eq's from Oregon to Vancouver...  southern BC Canada.
I saw there that there were eq's in july that ended um I think the 17th and not until the 8th of August were there any more.

So, as I clear out unused or already used pics and movies, I am checking them for the date and time...

Now, I never took any datalogging pics at the exact times, but there is a possibility that my pictures have been reflecting this, anyway.

[edit]: I did take some within 2 hours and more within 7 hours for several days.
end edit..

It would be the magnetic/electrical effect on the NS generators or the EP probes, not seismic activity. (I am not detecting motion etc. I do not even own a gps device.)

ooo the plot thickens.

jeanna

edit:
Thanks, Bill for mentioning earthquakes and my location the other day!
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on August 12, 2009, 11:55:51 PM
Quote
It would be the magnetic/electrical effect on the NS generators or the EP probes, not seismic activity.
I think sesmic activity could cause a change in the current. Ive taken my probes straight into the earth at various places. The resistance is constantly fluctuating. I took readings in 3 different spots in the shade and they seemed much higher than in the direct sun. You can move one probe any distance away from the other and get a much higher or lower resistance reading. A changing resistance will change the overall circuits electrical makeup .
If the earth moves I think its an automatic change in the resistance. To what degree only experiments would tell. It would probably be more pronounced locally.
 Watched a storm last night and this thought crossed my mind. Lightning being a potential of negative and positive charges releasing the voltage. The same thing could be happening within the earth but just on a lower scale. If that were so, it may give you the spikes on the scope. Im just wondering if this potential is greater at a deeper  depth say like hundreds or thousands of feet. Pirate may know a little more on the subject if he took geology.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 13, 2009, 01:52:46 AM
That is interesting IY

I was just at another forum and a member published these 2 maps they are colored grid maps of the usa.
I think the whole site has more.
I am living in a non grid place and I grew up in NJ which is a non grid state.
I know there are grids everywhere, just not major ones. I will put these up just in case anyone can find home on these maps.

here is a link to the page:
http://www.missionignition.net/bethe/GSU_Geostat_Report.php (http://www.missionignition.net/bethe/GSU_Geostat_Report.php)

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on August 13, 2009, 04:22:39 AM
That is real interesting. I live real close to the major grey in Florida. Coral Castle in Homestead looks like its right on the white grid line. Homestead is about 20 miles north of where the keys begin. I dont think the location is coincidence.
 This is impressive.
Quote
"Geophysicists from the Department of Earth Sciences and the Bureau of Mineral Resources have discovered part of a huge underground circuit near Broken Hill. . .which contains electrical currents of more than a million amps. . .
    The circuit was found using a sensor which detects fluctuating fields in the earth's crust. These are created in response to events, such as thunderstorms and the movement of dissolved salts in artesian water."
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 13, 2009, 05:00:23 AM
...
Coral Castle in Homestead looks like its right on the white grid line. Homestead is about 20 miles north of where the keys begin. I dont think the location is coincidence.
...

I agree.
Bill is on a cross of 4 lines.

And look at that spot SW of Tucson. It shows nothing on the map. Just desert and maybe a border town. I bet there is an amazing underground archeological dig there. How many lines can possibly cross? Forget Sedona!   

Take your dowsing rods and earth batteries, and go for a hike!   ;)

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 13, 2009, 05:49:31 AM
Check this out.

I just went outside for some datalogging.
It drizzled all day yesterday and rained lightly til noon today. This 8PM was the first I dared take my things outside.

I have 2 pics from the true earth battery and 2 from the one that has NS added to each end. woah Same resolution for the 2 both being .5us and the volts resolution is set to 5mv per division.

The caption says what the pic above it is.

Hey, where is everybody? Did everybody lose their scope?
Anyway this is so interesting.
With the ground pretty wet, the NS at the end are way down from the plain and the ac readings are way up.


jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 13, 2009, 10:32:45 AM
@Jeanna,

Check this out.
Hey, where is everybody? Did everybody lose their scope?
jeanna

I still here, that last pic of your scope readings, shows a lot of spikes, now a little back I just noticed your last photo, it shows a waveform which looks like the top of the wave seems to be flat.
I see this effect if I have a LED across the EB output.

I havent switched on my scope for at least a week, emotions still a bit raw folks.

Jeanna, GRIDMAPS, is a very interresting topic indeed, there is a New Zealander, his name is Bruce Cathie, he used to be a airline pilot, he discovered the world wide grid, he made a special program called gridworks which can work out the grids from anywhere in the world. (costs a bit though).

Major buildings, monuments, ancient wonders can be found at the grid cross sections. There are small triangles, larger ones and huge ones.

Some funney energy things happens where the gridlines cross.

jim
 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 13, 2009, 06:39:08 PM
@ Jeanna:

Actually, where I live there is only one grid line going past here.  Where you see those 4 grid lines crossing is actually right about where Stubblefield's farm was located!!  (I am east north east of those intersections)

I noticed about Ed's Coral Castle (As previously mentioned) location too as my Mom lives near there.  This can't be a coincidence can it?


@ Jim:

Good to see you here mate.  I hope things are as well as they can be for you.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jdcmusicman on August 14, 2009, 03:13:29 AM
HI folks ,

Finally got a chance to do me a in the ground EB today ...
I used a 18" copper tube 3/4" and a 3/4" 18" aluminum tube ,lined up N/S
about 10" apart ..
My initial readings in bone dry ground are .61 volts .24 ma  not really much but hoping it will be higher tomorrow ...

I setup another one using the copper ground rod off my power pole and put a 3' alum pipe in the ground 10' away ..Initial readings on it are .76 volts .09 ma...Hope it will get higher to

I did another isolated in a planter pot with a 4"x 2" SS pipe with a 8" alum pipe in the center with plain dirt and drenched it with water ..
My initial readings are .42 volts .56 ma .....

And the other SS/alum one I mentioned before that is over a week old now is still kicking at .66 volts 1 ma  haven't wet it or anything still doing fairly good...

I plan on hooking a cap to the EB one tomorrow and let it charge all day just to see how much I can store up in a 8 hr period or so ...

Thanks Jdcmusicman

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 14, 2009, 03:18:47 AM
I posted my scope shots from today on the stubblefield thread, but I do want to report this:

I just got my new tiny meter for reading dc amps. So, I will add this here.
Plain EB - 35.7uADC (1/3 milliamp)
EB with 2 NS generators = 96.4uAdc  (almost one milliamp)
I think you are right about this, Bill. I am getting lower dc volts and more dcmA by adding the extra things on the ends. The amps seen on this meter are dc amps.

No wonder I cannot get even a joule thief to start up. I need one of those maximum caps from the gadget, I guess.

jeanna

edit:
JDMusicman,
Cool.
we posted simultaneously.

How excellent. .61vdc in bone dry for the first day sounds like a winner to me!
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 14, 2009, 08:09:01 AM
finally got my scope in.

and what i found is quite intersting indeed.

im picking up two strong signals, consistent and precisely 180-degrees out of phase, sinusoidal.

and...

a multitude of weaker signals, at first it looked like only 2, but as i focused in on them, there are several. seemingly inconsistent, and causing a lot of constructive and destructive intereference. This is the cause of the "peaks" you notice in the signal when you are not finely tuned into them all. i am unsure of the source of these signals, they may be comming from many places.

im going to try and eliminate the air-born interference and see if i can clean this up enough to get a few shots.

this scope doesnt seem to have a way to freeze the shot, so i hope my camera can pick up on it.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 14, 2009, 08:22:45 AM
@ALL

Good news  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

ZAC is back with his Mum n Dad.
Granddad/G-pah feels much betta. :D

Im off for the weekend to see my littley

hooroo all

Gpah jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 14, 2009, 11:32:25 PM
Well Bill,
I think you called it!

I was feeling a certain 'heady' feeling I have been getting a lot lately and I thought to look at the eqpage.
Wow 10 minutes before there was a 1.9 in the mountains NE of me.
It was in the cascades in 'cedar butte' if you want to look it up.

OK, so I grabbed my stuff and told the rain to hold off for a while , which it did.
I only took a couple of regular shots then found the resolution that is showing the spikes.
They are regular. Even so, a little hard to catch at the spot.

Wanna see them? Of course you do.
I will crop them so they are good to see and be back.

jeanna
Oh after I did this I took some of that speaker wire and hooked it to the dome and the amps rose to 200uA.
I will see if I can show you anything about that.

I made a movie.
Check it out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJoPspdYyYU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJoPspdYyYU)
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on August 15, 2009, 05:53:53 AM
i cant get any coherent scope shots from my EB in this area.
im getting all kinds of interefernce
probably from the underground electrical and cable wires running all around here.

we have no overhead wiring in this neighborhood...

very slow division (50 uS+) i can get it to clean up a little bit
i put electrical tape over all the exposed wires, and ran the EB through an analog coax, that helped a bit, but im still picking up all kinds of garbage. 

i'll swap out my electrodes over the weekend, and see how that works out,..
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 15, 2009, 10:48:05 PM
Hi everybody,
While Professor Lewin buffers (mm great lectures!) I want to show you the official seismogram of yesterday and today at about the same times.
I guess this is right on, Jim. It is measured in microvolts per division too!!

I found it here for my area, and I think there might be links to other places in the world too.
http://www.pnsn.org/WEBICORDER/SMO_N/ATES_SHZ_UW.2009081412.html (http://www.pnsn.org/WEBICORDER/SMO_N/ATES_SHZ_UW.2009081412.html)

here is a pic of yesterday and today. Pretty big difference. And there was another one today in the night magnitude 3 this time but under the water off Portland.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 17, 2009, 04:44:37 AM
@Smokey

I'm not sure if this is correct, but congrats on you getting your new scope, well done.  :D
The best thing to do, is just hook the probes up to the EB cells and then watch the waveform for a while, in a few days you will be accustomised to what seem to be garbage, but the "wriggling" is the stuff, well, you will know what I mean when the penny falls.

I've been bogged down making a shed, and its going to have lots of shelves too (jeannas good advice).

I found an electric winch at the dump today, looks like some bits like switches and lead wires are missing, but I can soon fix it up. ;)

@Jeanna,
Wow, those 2 sesmic charts are whacko stuff, (no, not bad, its good stuff), I take it as read, the top chart is the one with the most activety, bottom is after things have settled down a bit.

I noticed you are getting u ma out of your EB setup. :)

I have to setup one of my CCD cameras under a glass pendulam clock cover, secure this on a bit of flat board, then mount it on a wooden pole or top of the house roof, point it west towards a storm.
Then capture the lightning flash and any scope image together, see if any readings are parallel or if one arrives before the other, etc.
Storm season is about a month away, winter is over, days are much warmer now.
 
I automatically have USGF earth quake activerty emailed to me, but only quakes from 5.5 and over,  otherwise it fills my email box to overflowing. This weekend alone there was about 25 quakes arrived from them.

jim
 

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cosmicfarmer on August 17, 2009, 05:08:08 AM
I ordered gadgetmall's earth battery rods on express delivery so when they get here I'll jam them in the ground. 

It seems puerto rico and indonesia are about to fall off the face of the earth! so many earthquakes... 
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_big.php 

Is it just me or are these quakes happening more often? Personally I would think a large earthquake would diminish EB waveform as the entrained pathways are disrupted.

Also, what is a good thing to leave on an EB to entrain it? a resistor? capacitor? dead short?  Thanks.



--------

Also.  Not to be a complete conspirasy nut, but I found this article relating to soil conductivity and aerosol density... its from carnicom, so take it as you wish.
http://www.carnicom.com/soil1.htm
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jdcmusicman on August 19, 2009, 08:27:43 PM
Hey folks,

I have added to my in ground EB ...
I added another setup 2 ft away from the copper/alum one ..

This one I took a 8" aluminum rod and done kinda like a stubblefield style deal I put cotton and a paper roll around the alum then wrap 10' of Stainless steel 1/6" thick cable around it ..
I had to wet it initially then I buried it ...
With that one and the first one wired in parallel I am getting .51 vdc at 2.01ma ..
This is the first day on it , I am hoping it will hold at 2 ma ..
Gonna keep check on it everyday , may even add some more ..

I also have plans to get a scope when I can afford one ..
I really want to see more of what is going on with this stuff .

I have noticed that voltage usually drops when it rains  and I still get better readings in the day than I do at night ..
And some days are better than others no matter how dry or wet the dirt is..

Can anyone tell me how far apart these things have to be to run them in a series without isolating them?

Thanks Jdcmusicman
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 19, 2009, 10:43:20 PM
JD:

To my knowledge, unless the electrodes are insulated like Jim has been doing, and you as well, electrodes miles apart can still not be put into series to up the volts.  I, of course, have not tried the miles apart approach but I have read this in several places of experiments going way back to the telegraph days.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jdcmusicman on August 20, 2009, 12:01:11 AM
Thanks Bill,

I was curious about , I hadn't attempted it yet ..
One thing that i did notice is with the 2 cells that I have , is when I intially put the second one in the ground I put about 1ft from the other and It would make the ma readings go way way down to almost zero..So I moved it over another ft and it works fine that way ..
I assume even having them in parallel if they are to close they kinda cancel things out , it had no effect on the voltage just the ma's ...

I have been reading a little on the telegraph stuff, with so little I have read so far , it is just amazing at some of the things they were doing back then...

Thanks  Jdcmusicman
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 20, 2009, 11:21:17 PM
Hi everybody,
I managed some decent pics today.
The thing I found interesting today is the voltage is down.
If other people would ante up, we could all know if the earth is experiencing a general drop today or if it is just my backyard. I usually must change the resolution of the EER with stubblefield at either end, but today the 5mv resolution was fine for both
Fires what the DMM says then  the scope at 2 different resolutions of the wave.

The captions tell the tale.
When it says 'both' it means the EER with 2 stubblefield coils on the ends.
jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: xee2 on August 21, 2009, 01:42:12 AM
@ jeanna

I managed some decent pics today.

Very good pictures. Thanks.

Have tried to do any current measurements?

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 21, 2009, 04:37:07 AM
@alll

I don't know about anyopne else, but all day yesterday (Thursday) I could access overunity, but couldnt post, then lateron, I couldnt access Overunity.

I see I can post again, (its friday here) did anyone have a similar thing happen to them?

I ordered gadgetmall's earth battery rods on express delivery so when they get here I'll jam them in the ground. 

It seems puerto rico and indonesia are about to fall off the face of the earth! so many earthquakes... 
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_big.php 

Is it just me or are these quakes happening more often? Personally I would think a large earthquake would diminish EB waveform as the entrained pathways are disrupted.

Also, what is a good thing to leave on an EB to entrain it? a resistor? capacitor? dead short?  Thanks.

--------
Also.  Not to be a complete conspirasy nut, but I found this article relating to soil conductivity and aerosol density... its from carnicom, so take it as you wish.
http://www.carnicom.com/soil1.htm

Cosmicfarmer, I havent tried "jam" on my EB electrodes lol.
There have been more earthquake activity over the last 3-4 years, it is escallating and larger EQ are hapenning.

Arrr Ha, OK we need a to set a standard to test our EB cells with, I suggest using this procedure.

Meassure Open Circuit Voltage
Meassure Short Circuit Voltage
Meassure Load Circuit Voltage using a 5,000 ohm Carbon Resistor accross the Pos Neg.
Well lets throw the resistance around for a bit, what do people think? 1K to 10K

Something is wrong with this note pad, it seems to freeze up, then jumps around, sometimes I carnt see what I'm typing, has anyoune else experenced this?

Its the weekend, I will be away for a few days.

hooroo all

jim

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 21, 2009, 05:46:33 AM
@ jeanna

Very good pictures. Thanks.

Have tried to do any current measurements?
Thanks xee2,
I try to put the information in the captions .
The 38.8 is uA for the plain EB
The 129.2 is uA for the EER with stubblefield coils at the ends.

Is this what you meant ?

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 21, 2009, 05:46:34 AM
@Jdmusicman


Thanks Bill,

I was curious about , I hadn't attempted it yet ..
One thing that i did notice is with the 2 cells that I have , is when I intially put the second one in the ground I put about 1ft from the other and It would make the ma readings go way way down to almost zero..So I moved it over another ft and it works fine that way ..
I assume even having them in parallel if they are to close they kinda cancel things out , it had no effect on the voltage just the ma's ...

I have been reading a little on the telegraph stuff, with so little I have read so far , it is just amazing at some of the things they were doing back then...

Thanks  Jdcmusicman

As Bill mentioned, if you want to go for higher volts, then insulate just the outer electrode, all the way from the top to the bottom, then seal the bottom of the electrode.
I just wound insulation tape around the pipe, and cut strips and covered the bottom of the pipe up.

Made a huge difference to the output.

If you want mA or amps, then you will need to make much larger cells, I would try for 3feet long copper outer electrode with 12 inch zinc inner electrodes.

I might get some tall tupperware cordial cups with their plastic seal on lids, and try setting up a few cells inside them, just to see what happens.
I want to see if I cam make a sealable earth cell, maintenance free ones.


jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 21, 2009, 05:55:56 AM

Arrr Ha, OK we need a to set a standard to test our EB cells with, I suggest using this procedure.
...
Something is wrong with this note pad, it seems to freeze up, then jumps around, sometimes I carnt see what I'm typing, has anyoune else experenced this?

jim
Yes, ou was broken for the last couple of days.

Notepad? do you mean the reply place? I have trouble with my cursor there a lot. but not more than usual.

I have no real problem doing your suggestions but I will not do another thing beyond what I have been doing until other people begin to post their scope shots and dmm shots.

What I am doing is enough for me and the only reason I am still posting is because I like looking at the pics on the page.
But I have been the only scope picture presenter for weeks.

I do not think people are interested.
Or, if they are, they are only interested if someone else does it.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: xee2 on August 21, 2009, 06:53:23 AM
@ jeanna

Is this what you meant ?

Yes. Thanks for pointing that out.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 22, 2009, 05:17:52 AM
Hi everybody.
I ran into some extra glare today.
I have one or 2 good pics, but one is extraordinary in its shape.
It looks like a bell curve.
Also one from .5us which shows the fastest vibration for the day.
That is 2.22MHz

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 22, 2009, 08:24:52 PM
This morning I remembered to check the phase of the moon. There is a new crescent which means the moon was new or conjunct with the sun 2 days ago. I have been seeing a diminishing of the voltage for these last few days. It seems I cannot get moisture right or something... etc.

But in the scope shots from the last few days as well, you can see even with both stubs at the ends, I do not need to move the resolution of the scope any higher than the 5mVper div which is the tiniest I can get and most of the tests I have done until now I have needed to change the resolution because the voltage peaks were off the chart.
I wonder if it is MORE moon than sun?
or just coincidence?

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on August 23, 2009, 02:10:53 AM
Quote
I wonder if it is MORE moon than sun?
I would think so. 70% of Earth is water and you would have a difference in tidal flexing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_force
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 23, 2009, 02:34:47 AM
Yes, IotaYodi,
I think about the difference between the daily and monthly cycles.
Here the moon is close to obscuring the sun (14 or 28 days from actually doing so) and it is coincident with lower voltages as shown on all my meters.
And there are 2 high and 2 low tides per day. The daily place of the moon would 'pull' not only the water but quite possibly magnetic metals at the earth level toward wherever the moon is located.

And then a new or full moon could add or subtract from the sun's influence. I really wish I had been doing this on a daily basis during the recent 3(!) eclipses. I will look at what I have and see if it will have any meaning.

It is all pretty meaningless if I am the only person doing this.

jdcmusicman was the last other person... where are you jdc??
And Sm0ky2, what happened? you think the wave is too strange so you won't share it??

So, IY, what is your meter saying about the land in FL?

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on August 23, 2009, 02:53:49 AM
On my Eb I only have 65 volts. My scope is on hold as my truck transmission may have to be replaced. Ill know that monday. Im looking at a new 25mhz digital bench top that is also portable using batteries. I was looking at a used 100mhz analog but I like the portability and storage of the digital one which has a usb port
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cosmicfarmer on August 23, 2009, 11:39:01 AM
Jeanna - please don't get discouraged.  Many people who could contribute live in places where they do not have access to the ground, even through they walk on it every day.   I just think more people need to notice this thread, so we need some advertizment. I have been somewhat busy in other forums using your posts as bait to hopefully bring in some experimenters...

what really needs to happen is what happens with the seismographs... different stations have real time feed that you can check on.   This energy is just so alternate that even the alternate energy researchers aren't even setting up a monitoring post. 

Anyway. Keep up the good work, and good idea on the lunar phases. I Heard colloid silver production increases in full moons, or something.   ???
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 24, 2009, 05:45:34 AM
@Jeanna,

I should be back on doing some more posting of my EB setup scope images soon.
As you know my situation here, I have had to turn up a back seat becauase of Zac, this is almost resolved, and I have been building a shed for my generator.
Shed I completed last friday and have had a few probs with identifying magneto problems.
All this has put me way back, hopefully I am now back on track.

I want to increase my EB cells to try for 12v DC, so this will be soon.

The weather has turned hot at long last, 30 plus degreese here, time to flog the airconditioners.

Jeanna, I have noticed all your good work, and the lack of mine, but will try and overtake you soon, I'm ditching Dialup for a satellite installation soon, hopefully by the end of september I should be on air via Broadband, just got to do a bit more bedside reading up on this.

So much to do.

hooroo
jim

jam n butter,,,,,,,,,, big hmmmmm cosmicfarmer lol
 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 24, 2009, 05:55:00 AM
Great jim,
Of course I was not referring to you being missing. It just seemed that everyone's enthusiasm dried up.

If you would go out and see how the plain eb voltage is, I would appreciate it. Not the series set up , but the standard one.

It is one more day of the moon, but it is another month before this moon day returns and you might not be around then.
I had lower readings and I am wondering how low they are for you?

If it is the moon, then everyday until um 11 days from now, the moon will be growing more full and if it is the moon more than the sun, then we can watch the voltage rise over the next 11 days then slowly diminish. We shouldn't need to do this too regularly, if that is what does it, but now's the time!

thanks,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 24, 2009, 06:24:53 AM
@ALL

Here are todays readings of my series EB cells
Voltage 8.10v this is way down from 10volts, I think this is because the water has evaporated, I will go and put more water on them shortly after posting this off

Temperature Inside   =  26 degrees
Temperature outside =  28 degrees
Moon                      = at the zenith its a thin Crescent

I have added another item to my EB readings, soil moisture content
Soil moisture            =  very low  see photo of soil moisture meter

The EV waveforms seem to be more active today than last week, a lot more wriggling is going on.
Earthquake activity = Seems to be more activity in Bougainvillea/New Guinea and Indonesia


jim
 



Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 24, 2009, 07:01:42 AM
@ Jeanna,
Great jim,
Of course I was not referring to you being missing. It just seemed that everyone's enthusiasm dried up.
you might not be around then.

thanks,
jeanna

Understandable about the enthusasm drying up, no worries, I'm not letting it go to rest.
I didn't think to include my single cell plate assembly in the readings.
Here they are
Voltage = 0.44volts

OK I have a MOV file for you to look at
1st part of it shows the waveform from my series setup
2nd part shows the waveform of my single cell setup.

jim


Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jdcmusicman on August 24, 2009, 10:04:35 PM
@ Jeanna

I am still here lol ....I just been really busy , will have some more readings tomorrow ...

I have 2 setups in the ground
2 setups in planters ....

I haven't given up , aint planning on quitting on it either ..
This stuff excites me , it maybe low power but hey its pretty much free power...I am planning on doing a stubblefield coil to soon ..

Thanks Jdcmusicman
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on August 24, 2009, 10:54:31 PM
@Jeanna,

Please do not get discouraged, only the garden is drying up not my enthusiasm. Lots to do before winter arrives. We need some way of having a synchronized collection mechanism so we can compare everyones data. I have been feeding the EB into the computers sound recorder and have been getting some interesting data. Feeding the voltage through a 1ohm shunt then using a 30db gain filter you get some strange current readings. The current has spiky square waves throughout and sounds like noisy motor or electrical equipment running, popping/sparking on and off. Voltage appears as a distorted 60hz AC wave and has that distinctive 60hz hum when you listen to it. I have the files but they are too large to post, compression would degrade the signal(32bit floating point).

Not sure if you have the NEETS manuals but Module 9 is a good read:

http://jacquesricher.com/NEETS/14181.pdf

Grab the whole series
http://jacquesricher.com/NEETS/

Also
http://www.whatcircuits.com/lc-resonance-frequency-calculator/
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 25, 2009, 02:06:58 AM
OK jdc and DreamTB, I will do my best to not be discouraged.

I am sure the design must remain simple.

The idea to run it through your computer is great for you to do.
It is kind of like my stubblefield gens on the other EER. I have a plain one and that is what I report here. The other is interesting if I can explain what it means to people, so really it is for me and my research.

Here is the problem as I see it:
If it is a difficult thing to get 12 people who claim enthusiasm to pound a copper pipe and a zinc roof nail into the ground and stick wire on either end and submit a daily reading... which it has proved to be, how on earth do you expect them to do something actually complicated?

I will try to keep my chin up.

Thanks for coming forward today both of you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 25, 2009, 02:13:51 AM
@ DreamThinkBuild

We need some way of having a synchronized collection mechanism so we can compare everyones data. I have been feeding the EB into the computers sound recorder and have been getting some interesting data. Feeding the voltage through a 1ohm shunt then using a 30db gain filter you get some strange current readings. The current has spiky square waves throughout and sounds like noisy motor or electrical equipment running, popping/sparking on and off. Voltage appears as a distorted 60hz AC wave and has that distinctive 60hz hum when you listen to it. I have the files but they are too large to post, compression would degrade the signal(32bit floating point).

Not sure if you have the NEETS manuals but Module 9 is a good read:

http://jacquesricher.com/NEETS/14181.pdf

Grab the whole series
http://jacquesricher.com/NEETS/

Also
http://www.whatcircuits.com/lc-resonance-frequency-calculator/

Good idea this, please let me know more about how you record your data.

A quick circuit too please, showing the bridge etc.

Wilby has been making a web page to display our readings in real time, and I need to get back to him shortly about this, it might be far easier to send an audio signal than a video signal, it uses less bandwidth.

I have a registered copy of NCH Wavepad, I assume I could use to record the waveforms in real time, I havent done this before so I will check it out first.

I will make up the circuit below and get back to all shortly.

jim


Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 25, 2009, 02:55:41 AM
I submit that THAT is not simple.
I do not know how to go about it and I think a lot of people will be reluctant to do anything with their sound cards that can be hit by or attract lightning.

Is the reason people fell away that it was too simple?
I would like to see full participation in a very simple low cost (pipe, nail, hookup wire, meter) and for those with scopes an extra bonus from the wave on top of the basic dmm results. After we do that for a while and it is successful (participation) we can add to it.

I think the more scopes the better for this, but I submit it should not be necessary.

My scope restricts me to certain pulses per second by changing resolution in certain jumps. I guess it is standard, but I don't know.

I have the ability to record dB but when I asked why I would use that nobody answered except xee who said forget it use the peak to peak.

So, where is this going?
At this moment I have 2 more hours of light.
Jim, if you could zip outside and report back with something even if you will refine it later, I could follow and give my report. Then there will be 2 from opposite ends but simultaneous.
I did that with Altrez for a while, but he has disappeared.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on August 25, 2009, 03:53:09 AM
Quote
The current has spiky square waves throughout and sounds like noisy motor or electrical equipment running, popping/sparking on and off. Voltage appears as a distorted 60hz AC wave and has that distinctive 60hz hum when you listen to it
Your soundcard converts the analog signal to a digital signal. Standard windows soundcards are poor at sample rate and bit depth. The 60hz hum is probably a ground loop problem because of the way its setup,or you dont have a dedicated circuit with star grounding. Im thinking a pulsed dc earth current going straight into a standard analog input is going to give erroneous signals because of the AD conversion.  Using a 24 bit spdif soundcard input may be better but you may still have the same problem with conversion. This may be why your having the popping on and off because of the pulsed dc..
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 25, 2009, 04:00:44 PM
@Jeanna,
I submit that THAT is not simple.
I do not know how to go about it and I think a lot of people will be reluctant to do anything with their sound cards that can be hit by or attract lightning.

Is the reason people fell away that it was too simple?
I would like to see full participation in a very simple low cost (pipe, nail, hookup wire, meter) and for those with scopes an extra bonus from the wave on top of the basic dmm results. After we do that for a while and it is successful (participation) we can add to it.

I think the more scopes the better for this, but I submit it should not be necessary.

My scope restricts me to certain pulses per second by changing resolution in certain jumps. I guess it is standard, but I don't know.

I have the ability to record dB but when I asked why I would use that nobody answered except xee who said forget it use the peak to peak.

So, where is this going?
At this moment I have 2 more hours of light.
Jim, if you could zip outside and report back with something even if you will refine it later, I could follow and give my report. Then there will be 2 from opposite ends but simultaneous.
I did that with Altrez for a while, but he has disappeared.

jeanna
I read you suggestion 11.55pm tonight, sorry J, we got to work out a better way if we need to make simutanious testing.
I wil PM you with a suggestion.

I don't know if you were refering to my circuit, if you are, it is simple.

I got about a meter (3 feet) of figure 8 speaker wire, soldered 2 aligator clip to one end of the Fig 8, ie clip on the POS, and another clip on the NEG.

went about 6inches from there and cut it through.
Soldered a 5K ohm pot on the positave wire

Went to the other end and soldered a small microphone jack plug onto the leads, end pin is the +, the earth neg I soldered to the earth of the plug.

Now I can record to my PC sound card what the meter (DMM) reads.
******************************************************

Today I hooked my webcam to my scope and tried displaying the images through my headless laptop, it worked.
********************************************************
Got my geni started, if you decide to look at the video, turn down your sound, it is very loud

jim


 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: nueview on August 25, 2009, 07:01:22 PM
hi all

i think there is interest but most are watching what goes on i am on another project but still look in each day the sound recording seems to be a good idea from my point of view it will track audible signals and could give some real insight as far as energy propogation in the ground as was said before some sounds like motors and a normal house grid is connected to ground so it could be possible to eliminate sum of the signal with a few simple tests like turning of some appliances or circuit breakers while testing your signal it may help to find some purer waves that may be filtered and used to better advantage.
Martin
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 25, 2009, 08:52:11 PM
Quote
I don't know if you were refering to my circuit, if you are, it is simple.

I got about a meter (3 feet) of figure 8 speaker wire, soldered 2 aligator clip to one end of the Fig 8, ie clip on the POS, and another clip on the NEG.

went about 6inches from there and cut it through.
Soldered a 5K ohm pot on the positave wire

Went to the other end and soldered a small microphone jack plug onto the leads, end pin is the +, the earth neg I soldered to the earth of the plug.

Now I can record to my PC sound card what the meter (DMM) reads.

Yes, Jim I was referring to that.

It may be simple enough to stick a microphone to an ear, but to put it to your sound card is not. But MY objection is that I do not want that to be required for our study.

I love the idea where we all do the very same thing Copper one end Zinc coated iron nail (not aluminum) on the other end with DMM and or scope in the middle.

Then we will have something. and if we can manage to make a simultaneous test, we will be really having something.

Beyond that everyone who wants to can make modifications. But those mods should be to a similar setup and probably not the same.
So, I think you and a few others will do sound, some others will use different materials, but all of us must do one thing that is exactly the same at the same time or this test is meaningless.

That is why I want it to be really simple. You have to be able to grab your tools run outside and take the measurements at the same time every day and then go to the store or movies or what your life is requiring. If this is too complex, life will get in the way.

I hope this makes sense...
And,
I hope we can do this. I think it has a great potential.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: MileHigh on August 26, 2009, 01:05:27 AM
Hi Jenna,

I glanced a few times at this thread and just have a comment or two, you may have even heard them before.

My suggestion is to also record your power measurement every day in addition to your waveforms.  Perhaps a 10 Mohm 10-turn pot would do the trick for you.  You first set up your waveform display.  I believe it also gives you the RMS voltage on the display, which is perfect.  You have your waveform set up and then connect the 10 Mohm potentiometer across the leads and then turn the potentiometer until the RMS voltage drops by one half.  Then you make a quick measurement of the resistance setting on the pot and record that.  The maximum output power that day is then the lower RMS voltage measurement squared divided my the resistance setting on the pot.  It will probably measure somewhere between microwatts and miliwatts.  The measurement of the pot setting is a big bonus, that is giving you the output impedance of your earth battery.  That is a very important measurement of the relative strength of the power source.  The lower the output impedance the better.

Anyway, you may find a corelation between the relative moisture in the soil and the output power and impedance measurements for your earth battery.  Larger buried anode and cathode setups should also give you more power generation and lower output impedances.

The only thing that I am not sure of is the right value for the potentiometer, I would imagine it is somewhere between 100 Kohm and 10 Mohm.

Anyway, don't let me disrupt anybody's projects but if there are keeners out there these measurements are really informative and tell you about the state of being of your earth batteries.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on August 26, 2009, 02:06:08 AM
That is excellent Milehigh!  :)
Whats your suggestion on the pot? Standard runs from about .5 v to 1 volt
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on August 26, 2009, 03:05:34 AM
Camera cell phone into a webcam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar2-GILSg_c&NR=1

Interesting camera cell phone into wireless oscilloscope.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrOs2TiyGy4
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: MileHigh on August 26, 2009, 03:17:26 AM
Iota:

If you experiment with discrete resistors and observe the RMS voltage (should be a true RMS meter) drops that will give you a feel for what's going on.  Don't be surprised if a 10K resistor reduces the waveform to almost nothing and don't worry about it either.  It just means that you have to try a much higher value resistor.

Keeping it simple, suppose that you find after measurements on a few setups over a few days that on average about a 1 Mohm resistor makes the RMS voltage drop by about one half.  In that case the "Cadillac" solution would be to get a 10-turn wire-type 5 Mohm potentiometer.  There are also little PCB-mount 10-turn potentiometers.  They look like little blue boxes and you can adjust them with a jeweler's screwdriver and are much less expensive.

Perhaps another option would be to have a few different ordinary single-turn potentiometers.  The only reason for using a 10-turn pot is to get more measurement accuracy to detect subtle trends.  Just some ideas.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 26, 2009, 03:47:17 AM
Milehigh
I am not sure I can read less than millivolts.
I think rms is not relevant because this is not sinusoidal at all. If it is then it is not natural and we must ignore it.

Thanks,
If you want to join us, I will be delighted to see the results you have on your special one with the pot and
much more interested in the one that is done simultaneously with a scope (if you have one) on 2 probes one copper and one zinc covered iron.

I will not be coming inside, but I am not about to make this more complicated than it already is.
I have 2 stubblefield coils added to each end of 2 probes and that is what interests me. (My personal interest)
I am reporting on the plain ones for the sake of the datalogging experiment.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: MileHigh on August 26, 2009, 03:58:09 AM
Hi Jenna,

The RMS voltage measurement is a measure of the average voltage of any waveform you have on your display.  I think I saw that in one of your clips where you show your scope.

I am not an experimenter and am just dropping into the thread.  Perhaps someone else will try it.

Good luck with your experiments.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 26, 2009, 04:45:05 AM
Oh too bad you won't be joining in the experiments.

I was taking what xee2 had to say about it from the joule thief thread. He impressed upon me that it would not be the same and if I wanted to see results I would not use the rms. It turned out to be true, so I now agree with it.

Join if you can!

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 26, 2009, 06:28:51 AM
@MileHigh,
Thats very good, I'm referring to your excellent suggestion of working out the wattage of the EB cells.

I have a couple of DPDT switches here, and a spare plastic case, I will dig them up and make a switch box arrangement so I can set the pot by looking at the cro display, then switch out the cro and EB cell and measure across the resistor.

This circuit should suffice I think.
When switches 1 and 2 are to the right (B) the resistance can be set, then the switches are moved to the left to (A) the DMM will read off the value the resistor is set at.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: MileHigh on August 26, 2009, 07:02:53 AM
electricme:

That looks great and should make life really easy.  You also want to add a SPST switch in series with the potentiometer so you can cut it completely out of the circuit.

Waveform, maximum power output, and output impedance measurements all with the flick of a few switches.  Should be awesome!

MileHigh

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 26, 2009, 12:21:13 PM
@ MileHigh,
I have redrawn the circuit just for you  ;)

Just to make it interresting, how about we through in a u/amp meter too, then add in a range switch for good meassure, lol

Better to have everything in a standard package than having to cart a handful of instruments all over the countryside.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 26, 2009, 12:52:19 PM
@ All
We are not the only ones looking into earth energy, I found this just now     http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.electronics.equipment/2006-01/msg00011.html

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: MileHigh on August 27, 2009, 05:03:37 AM
Hey Jim,

Good luck on the project, the new schematic looks just fine.  You do have the option to look at the current like you said.  Note that when you measure the open-circuit voltage with your true-RMS meter, and then you make the output impedance measurement, you actually have enough data to derive the short-circuit current.

Without getting into a big technical discussion, for very weak earth batteries, the input resistance of the multimeter or the value of the current shunt for measuring current could affect the readings and induce a margin of error.  In other words, your measuring instrument is starting to affect your measurements themselves because what they are trying to measure is very small.  This is just a fact of life that you should at least be aware of.

Anyway, I am going to go back into "peek once in a while mode" so good luck with the project!

MileHigh
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on August 27, 2009, 05:11:11 PM
Hi all,

 I tried something which is changing my view on Earth Batteries. I've been doing studies on Earth Batteries and wonder if it's not only EM energy we are picking up but naturally occurring radioactive decay. As deep radioactive material decays in the soil Alpha/Beta/Gamma particles are emitted to the surface. This could be attracted to the differential in the metals of the electrodes. The ground EM waves could be a catalyst by setting up the potential in the metals which then attract the particles.

Now I just tested something which is quite interesting. My area has high radon levels which need to be vented from the basement. Lots of granite around here. I went around the yard measuring granite rocks until I found one giving off 288-300mv, barely any amps 1-2ua. I placed it into a cardboard box and a heavy bag and smashed it to powder(wear mask and rubber gloves). I placed this "dry" powder into the EB, copper pipe with zinc rod through center sealed by rubber rings. I wasn't expecting much but I measured 703mv @ 64ua. This is completely portable now doesn't even have to be in the ground.

I came across a patent (3409820) by James O. Burke, 1964 which describes amplifying current from a radioactive source.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=hYxPAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=James+O.+Burke&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=2#v=onepage&q=James%20O.%20Burke&f=false

What caught my eye is the way in Fig 2 looks like an inverted(simplified) Stubblefield with the material in the center. Two end magnets could possibly replace the DC coil. Placing a voltage on the coil "may" be able to amp up the current on your Stubblefield replications. If your using an antenna pass it through a bridge then feed the DC potential to your Stubblefield coil.

He also has this patent (3530316):
http://www.google.com/patents?id=3S5VAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=James+O.+Burke&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=2#v=onepage&q=James%20O.%20Burke&f=false

There are some observations from readings of Alpha/Beta detectors which also have to be tested further with the EB.

Alpha particles are attracted to - potentials and the North pole of magnets.

Beta particles are attracted to + potentials and the South pole of magnets.

As another test to try you would have:
Alpha(-/North) should be your Northern most negative lead(Zinc)
And Beta(+/South) should be your Southern most positive lead(Copper)

Here is another interesting paper: Anomalous radon emanation linked to pre-seismic electromagnetic phenomena. Could be a reason why animals go crazy before a major geological event.
http://www.nat-hazards-earth-syst-sci.net/7/629/2007/nhess-7-629-2007.html
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 28, 2009, 01:11:46 AM
@ MileHigh,
Hey Jim,

Note that when you measure the open-circuit voltage with your true-RMS meter, and then you make the output impedance measurement, you actually have enough data to derive the short-circuit current.

Without getting into a big technical discussion, for very weak earth batteries, the input resistance of the multimeter or the value of the current shunt for measuring current could affect the readings and induce a margin of error.  In other words, your measuring instrument is starting to affect your measurements themselves because what they are trying to measure is very small.  This is just a fact of life that you should at least be aware of.

Anyway, I am going to go back into "peek once in a while mode" so good luck with the project!

MileHigh

This is right, the EB cells output being so weak, it becomes loaded by the meters internal circuit.
If the instrument measuring the devices output, sinks more current, ie > output, it soaks up every bit of supplied energy, the output device then sees a short and will not recover until the "load" is removed.

If the EB cell can exceed the load, then we are on the way to have "real" usable energy.

It will be nice to know you will be dropping in from time to time.

jim
 

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 28, 2009, 01:21:50 AM
@DreamThinkBuild,

Hi all,

 I tried something which is changing my view on Earth Batteries. I've been doing studies on Earth Batteries and wonder if it's not only EM energy we are picking up but naturally occurring radioactive decay. As deep radioactive material decays in the soil Alpha/Beta/Gamma particles are emitted to the surface. This could be attracted to the differential in the metals of the electrodes. The ground EM waves could be a catalyst by setting up the potential in the metals which then attract the particles.

Now I just tested something which is quite interesting. My area has high radon levels which need to be vented from the basement. Lots of granite around here. I went around the yard measuring granite rocks until I found one giving off 288-300mv, barely any amps 1-2ua. I placed it into a cardboard box and a heavy bag and smashed it to powder(wear mask and rubber gloves). I placed this "dry" powder into the EB, copper pipe with zinc rod through center sealed by rubber rings. I wasn't expecting much but I measured 703mv @ 64ua. This is completely portable now doesn't even have to be in the ground.

I came across a patent (3409820) by James O. Burke, 1964 which describes amplifying current from a radioactive source.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=hYxPAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=James+O.+Burke&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=2#v=onepage&q=James%20O.%20Burke&f=false

What caught my eye is the way in Fig 2 looks like an inverted(simplified) Stubblefield with the material in the center. Two end magnets could possibly replace the DC coil. Placing a voltage on the coil "may" be able to amp up the current on your Stubblefield replications. If your using an antenna pass it through a bridge then feed the DC potential to your Stubblefield coil.

He also has this patent (3530316):
http://www.google.com/patents?id=3S5VAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=James+O.+Burke&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=2#v=onepage&q=James%20O.%20Burke&f=false

There are some observations from readings of Alpha/Beta detectors which also have to be tested further with the EB.

Alpha particles are attracted to - potentials and the North pole of magnets.

Beta particles are attracted to + potentials and the South pole of magnets.

As another test to try you would have:
Alpha(-/North) should be your Northern most negative lead(Zinc)
And Beta(+/South) should be your Southern most positive lead(Copper)

Here is another interesting paper: Anomalous radon emanation linked to pre-seismic electromagnetic phenomena. Could be a reason why animals go crazy before a major geological event.
http://www.nat-hazards-earth-syst-sci.net/7/629/2007/nhess-7-629-2007.html
All this is very interresting indeed, I have a question for you.

What did you use (tools) to smash up the rock? I ask as I want to smash a rock also lol, I have a 3 lb sledge hammer and a 5lb sledge hammer, should I place my rock in a bag like you did, or in a steel bucket, what would you recomend?

When I made my 8 inch diameter round disk, copper and zinc coated steel EB cell, I remember reading about crushed rock being used to fill between the disks, but I only used earth.
I actually wanted to use quartz chips, but couldn't find any at a resonable price, so settled for second best. :D

Got to find more copper pipe and make some more series cells to add to my last lot, I got distracted by other research and shed building.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 28, 2009, 02:41:37 AM
I won't report anything either.

I also have a concept to share, though.
I tried various inductors in series with the 2 middle ends where I test for volts.

I tested with various inductors on both the south and then the north wires. There was a difference. Depending on the inductance I got between the same and up to 50% more than without the booster.

There was a lot of activity in general today.
Today was very high compared to the last week.
I got readings above 111mv on the ac portion riding above the dc portion. (That was not the plain EB... It was with the stubbs at the end.)

So, the activity in general was a lot higher today [Is itoday the first quarter yet?]  and that makes the report look a lot higher than it is, but even so, the voltage was up 30%-50% just by adding an inductor in series with the EB wires.

I think this is a good avenue for further study. I was hoping this was so.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 28, 2009, 04:40:54 AM
@Jeanna,
Thats good, you have higher readings with an inductor in series with your EB cells, you are doing well with them.

My EB cells seem to loose most of their moisture within hours of me topping them up with water.
I will have to dream up some sort of constant drip water feed to each cell, thinking cap time again.

I like DreamThinkBuilds idea of crushed rock used as a filling for EB cells, this has merit, quartz rock might be the best I think.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on August 28, 2009, 06:16:45 AM
Quote
I actually wanted to use quartz chips, but couldn't find any at a resonable price, so settled for second best.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Herkimer-Double-terminated-Quartz-crystals-1-8_W0QQitemZ380151347375QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5882c938af&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
 Ive read Quartz from Brazil is one of the best.

I had thought about doing this but with crystals cut for 2.0 to 2.5 mhz stuffed inside a copper tube with the cathode in the center. The crystals would be the dielectric. The copper tube would be stuck in the ground with the cathode protruding into the earth. A frequency generator could be used to test it.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 28, 2009, 09:57:10 AM
@ All
I had a bit of success today with feeding the EB cell voltage through my sound card and getting a fairly good display of it.

I downloaded a free ECG (heart waveform monitoring software (small zip file) and set this up on my PC.

I then plugged in the special lead I made up 3 days ago and I got results.
Ha Ha, the perfect example of using a bit of gear it was never designed to be used as, but it worked. This software needs a bit of a tuneup and I have sent a email to the chappie who wrote it to see if he will rework it for our needs.

Here is the link for those who want to try it for themselves.
Don't forget to make up the special lead and plug interface.

http://www.eng.utah.edu/~jnguyen/ecg/instructions.html




Below are 2 screen views, please excuse my cluttered desk top  ;D

I also have made a video of this which can be seen by clinking on the link.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on August 28, 2009, 03:50:47 PM
Hi Jim,

I used a 5 lb splitting maul, a hammer would do also, granite is pretty fragile. I didn't slam the maul down just lifted it then let it drop a couple times. I placed the granite rock in a small shipping cardboard box with a cover on it then placed it in a heavy duty bag. I guess you could also put it in a old towel you don't want anymore. I put it in the box because it was easier to fold the cardboard into a funnel to put it into the pipe. The box still maintained it structure even though being somewhat smashed. I'll have to look through the streams for some quartz, usually find smoky or white quartz there.

I'm noting some interesting things with this type of battery. This morning the reading was 723mv@22ua DC. Current has dropped but voltage has increased. Unlike a normal EB on the scope I do not pickup a high amplitude 60hz reading as I was when it's in the ground. It acts more like a DC battery with a lower amplitude noisy waveform riding the DC.

It seem like when a EB is in the ground it acts like an antenna picking up all the stray EM waveforms, this is starting to act more like a battery. I'm not sure if this is good or bad, the stray EM waves may be what causes the EB to have a regenerative effect? Maybe if I put the EB back into the ground it will recharge. I'll try wrapping it with a coil with a DC charge and see if the current can be increased.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on August 29, 2009, 03:20:48 AM
@DreamThinkBuild,

Thankyou for describing the method you use to prepare the quartz for your EB cells, I will give that a go to, I have a old towel here I can use.

I have noticed all the different effects when the EB cell is in the ground, in the air or inside my house.

It does seem to be influenced by the earth, picking up earth currents which as you say recharges it, but I have noticed the lack of moisture has a huge effect on the amount of voltage I can measure.

I had my DMM connected all the time to a cell, then I removed the cell, and kept an eye on its output, I even took the same cell up onto my roof, to see any changes, there weren't any.

But it was a different story when the scope was connected to it, but I had to descend the ladder to look at the scope each time I moved the cell to a different position, the basic wave altered.

I don't know what those readings were so I will replicate them tomorrow and post them here.

At the moment my goal is to get 24v DC or higher out of a series EB cell arrangement, this is achievable but I need more copper pipe to do this, I have Heep's more zinc nails.

Today, I have more tidying up to do in my workshop area, I need to build a new steel workbench and transfer the bench grinder, drill press and steel cutoff wheel to it, along with my heavy duty vice.
Then after this is done, I need to make a stubblefield winding jig.
I have managed to locate some steel wire covered in a thin layer of green plastic, but this is a long way away ahead of me right now.

This will take a few more days.

I will take some more scope shots of the EB and post them shortly.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 29, 2009, 03:37:38 AM
I guess I posted my results on the wrong thread today.
Please havalook at joes old eb thread.

I found a wallwart and took it apart and tried to connect the very short leads to the EER and the longer 110v side to the scope.
The connection was very hard to keep tight because the wires were too short, and forget the extra 220uH inductor which would help. But I did manage to get 1.55v.

this means I can capture the ac component and use it in a transformer and get higher values like the secondary of the joule thief. Horay!

I need to fix the details, again... flaky connections all over the place!
But this is a very encouraging start.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on August 31, 2009, 02:16:01 AM
I must have pushed the 10x probe button yesterday, because I have not been able to get more than 155mv from the EER with or without additional inductors.
It seems counterintuitive to me, but I am not getting a transformer effect from the wires to the probes.
However, if I use an inductor in line with one of those lines to the probes, I can increase the mv by 50-100% It is still not very much.
I can add a transformer to this and it will slightly increase the increase.

I tried a few things today.
I used a great joule thief toroid and connected it to the 2 eb's, because I needed more connectors.
I did not see a higher voltage, but maybe a higher like much higher frequency. It was impossible to read the waves were so clustered. But then in another moment, it appeared as usual.

It is all pretty inconclusive.
I thought I should post this in case someone else was thinking of trying it. OR if 2 of us did try it and got the same results.

One more thing.
I have noticed that often the wave will start out much lower then soon get jigher and stronger.
I am starting to wonder if the scope is pushing volts into the wires and then the increase is being returned.
I should stick a battery on the leads then see...

OK done for now.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: kamax on August 31, 2009, 04:25:49 AM
I have noticed that often the wave will start out much lower then soon get jigher and stronger.
I am starting to wonder if the scope is pushing volts into the wires and then the increase is being returned.
I have many different eart cells pots and if i read mA:
-copper+zinc: mA go down to a stable value
-copper+alu: mA go up to a stable value

Anf if mA are going down, voltage are going up.
If mA are going up, voltage are going down.

The cells change his value while reading mA, i suppose it's because it's like a shortcut between + and -
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jdcmusicman on September 03, 2009, 07:35:48 PM
Finally quit raining so I could get some readings on my eb's ..

In ground :
Copper/aluminum  .58 vdc .06 ma
Stainless steel/aluminum .56 vdc .04 ma
Stainless steel/aluminum with alum rod inside ss pipe .73 vdc .16 ma

Out of ground in planters ..
SS/aluminum .87 vdc .55 ma
SS/aluminum .90 vdc .50 ma ..

These things have been planted for a few weeks now ,I am happy to see that the readings are staying pretty uniform ..

One thing that is puzzling me is the fact that the 2 ss/alum in the planters have the same dirt and are done the same way as the 2 ss/alum that are in the ground but have higher readings ....
I can't wait till I can get my hands on a scope ..
This stuff is so interesting so simple yet so complex as to figuring what is actually taking place ....
I do know that these outside has outlasted any galvanic style battery i have made ,so I am guessing its more than galvanic reactions taking place
..
well anyway , just wanted to post some readings , if the rain holds off I will be trying to get readings day to day ...

Thanks Jdcmusicman
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 04, 2009, 05:50:46 AM
JD:

Exactly.  We have found that there is more than galvanic going on here.   One of our early tests was with two copper pipes cut from the same pipe and.....a voltage and mA's were the result.  These were in the ground aligned on the N/s meridian.  This told me right away that galvanic could not be the entire explanation as we were not using dissimilar metals, but the same metals.

I think it plays a part but there is so much more going on that we, or at least I, do not understand.

I still get Youtube comments that this is only galvanic....blah, blah, blah.

I think we are beyond that but, I am still at a loss to explain what is really happening.

More research and more experiments by many are needed and then, maybe we can figure it out.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on September 04, 2009, 04:17:37 PM
Quote
One thing that is puzzling me is the fact that the 2 ss/alum in the planters have the same dirt and are done the same way as the 2 ss/alum that are in the ground but have higher readings ...
I think this is mainly water content. The planters I assume have drain holes.
With all the rain we have been getting here my voltage has dropped down to the 60's. When it was dry it was in the 80's and 90's. There is a definite voltage drop when there is a lot of water content which makes sense.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on September 05, 2009, 02:42:03 AM
whatever power i was drawing out of the ground seems to have been "drained" now...

if i disconnect for some time duration i can get a few Ma's back for a short time, but it quickly depletes. and im left with the normal >1v @ microamps that occurs with most EBs....

 not enough current to operate my JT circuit anymore.

ran for about 2 weeks, then stopped.

so it would seem the ground around here has a sort of capaticance factor, that charges over time and discharges through the EB circuit.

viewing it on the o-scope this current is identified as the DC carrier signal.
the sine-waves (which encompass a wide bandwidth) dont seem to be depleting at all. turning the timescale as far down as my scope goes, (0.2 microseconds per division) i can separate 30 (+/-) signals of differing frequencies. when combined at larger time intervals they appear identicle to many of the scope-shots posted here.
i havent yet ruled out a man-made source - possibly television/radio?

with less than 1v amplitude, theres not much use for them.
perhaps data could be extracted if the signals were amplified and filtered. this would answer the question of the source.

i'll keep an eye on this thread, in case somethng new arises, but for now my data-analysis of these sine-waves has gone as far as i can take it.  What im seeing is the cummulation of several (weak) signals.
at best, a rectifier with a low-voltage bias could produce a usable current from these (if losses aren't too great), this may prove more advantageous than a simple DC-EB collector. thats about all i have on that issue.

several multiple-probes depletes the ground energy.
i replaced my multi-probe soft-steel connections with several carbon/graphite rods and got the same results. high current, for a duration of time, then it depletes.

galvanized wires corrode,  steel (non-stainless) oxidizes,
carbon and stainless seem to remain intact.
voltage varies slightly 0.6 - 0.9v depending on the combination.
currently im using carbon(+) / stainless (-) and getting 0.9v
current bottoms out at around 800 ua - 1.3ma
and increases over time while the circuit is 'open', up to 11ma.
i cant seem to go any higher than 11ma, no matter how long i wait or how many electrodes i add to the circuit.

electrode distance is approx. 25ft, matched to earth magnetic-allignment, and as close to local inclination as i could manage
                                             (within 10 degrees or so)

not much more i can do here....

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 17, 2009, 07:24:07 AM
@All,

Lots of good work proceeding here I see while I have been away.

Been off air a while, I decided to take off Firefox, then lost the ability to make posts, though I could read them and get PMs, I just couldn't reply.
So this morning I reinstalled Firefox again, and I can post again, but I took the opportunity to have a break away.

Had a bit of a clean up around here, made another work bench, 3 meter steel job, mounted the vice, got to transfer the drill press and grinder next and make a small crane to lift those heavy items, a cut-off-wheel bench is then next.

OK to the matter at hand, I have decided to expand my EB cells in a big way.
Yesterday I got all my scraps of copper pipe and made 63 by 6" length tubes, I have to file off the corrosion to cut and solder 63 lengths of wire to the tubes and the Zinc Nails.
A big undertaking, but I am looking to raise the earth battery voltage from 10 volts to about 50 volts, it may go higher, we shall see.
Hmmm hope I can do this lol.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Mk1 on September 17, 2009, 08:48:33 AM
http://www.disclose.tv/viewvideo/29990/Dr__Steven_Greer_The_Promise_of_New_Energy/
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 17, 2009, 03:42:45 PM
@JD and SmOky2

The Stainless and carbon looks like the way to proceed, I find that very interresting, at least the electrodes should not suffer corrosion problems and the higher output also,,,, big hummm here, could be another KEY in the puzzle, good work.

I also have noticed the ups and downs of voltages with my series cells setup, if it is dry, the voltage is lower, when I add just a little moisture, (20cc to each cell) the voltage rises, then returns to the low reading as the water evaporates. :)

A few hours ago I used a rat tailed round file to deburr the top and bottom of the 63 copper pipes, then using a flat file, to file a bright area to solder wires to the copper tubes.
I dread stripping 63 short wires. 126 ends to do, lol

This is going to take some days I think.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on September 18, 2009, 01:57:00 AM
@Electricme.
A battery or power drill with a wire brush will save you loads of time instead of using a file. Thats a lot of filing!!  :o
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 18, 2009, 03:07:14 AM
@IotaYodi

Thats right, silly me has a brand new wire brush in a blister pkt, just clean forgot I had it, its hanging up on the kitchen wall cabinet lol, never mind, I used the fine grit grinding wheel to deburr the 63 copper pipes.

I bought it to derust those huge big iron rings I found over a year ago, I still want to make the worlds largest joule thief with them.

Back to making EB stuff.
I took it easy, no seance in rushing, had a couple of meters of multi core cable, and stripped this back and cut myself 63 X 6" lengths.
I have just finshed sweatting the leads onto each pipe with a 80watt soldering iron, Its amazing how much heat copper can soak up.

0387.jpg = Half way soldering leads to each pipe end (one end only)
0388.jpg = All done, all wires soldered to each copper pipe.

Next step, grab my insulation tape and wind a layer or two from top to bottom, then fold or cover the bottom of each tube end, then grab a handful of Galvenised nails (Zinc) and solder each free end to the top of each nail.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 18, 2009, 05:41:51 AM
@All,
I have been waiting for a phone call so I decided to go out back and solder the Zinc nails to the ends of the wires, the nails managed to hold out to the exact number I needed, phew.

I'm outta step with myself, I was going to wrap insulation tape around the outside of each of the copper pipes, clean forgot.  ::)

Well, that will just have to be the next step.
In the mean time, take a look at the progress so far. 1839.jpg

1338.jpg = weatherman a couple of weeks ago said this lot was fish scales, lol, proves he has no idea whats under his very nose doesn't it. :D

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 18, 2009, 07:49:35 AM
Jim:

Wow man that is a lot of work you are doing down there.  Whatever you do, do not attempt to take those pipes on an airline in your suitcase, ha ha.  The guy x-raying the baggage would have a heart attack.

Nice "natural" cloud formations you have over there.  We have similar ones here too.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 18, 2009, 08:39:09 AM
@ Pirate88179er

Thanks Bill, I will take care  :D the tubes are in the chariot at the moment, I'm about ready to choof off to Town, thought I would recheck the emails.

Im picking up my USB remote control CCD camera tomorrow morning, and will set it up on the Laptop to experiment with, this is going to be a lot of fun fun fun, my chemtrail hunter ha ha.

The copper tubes will come in for a face lift, some new insulation wrapped around the outsides should do wonders. Wonder how many feet of insulation I will need, meters and meters.

B back on monday
Hooroo, ave a great weekend.

jim
   
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on September 18, 2009, 04:10:29 PM
@ electricme


are you entirely covering the copper pipes?
 like no contact with the ground at all?

what about the nails? any insulation on them?

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 21, 2009, 06:34:57 AM
@sm0ky2
I have been away for the weekend, hope my answer below is in time.

@ electricme

are you entirely covering the copper pipes?
 like no contact with the ground at all?

what about the nails? any insulation on them?

OK, here is what I do.
Solder to the top and side of the copper tube a wire about 12 inches long, then on the other end of this wire, solder a zinc nail, I grab a file and file off the zinc first before soldering the wire on it.
If you can, use a very hot soldering iron, 80-100 watter. 


The PIPES first.
Insulation.
The whole outside of the copper pipe is wrapped in a single layer of insulation tape by overlapping the electrical tape.

Just grab a roll of insulation tape and begin to wrap the pipe from top to bottom, we need to completely insulate the copper pipe on the "outside" only.

Next.
If you leave the bottom of the pipe exposed to the earth sourrounding it, then it will short out, or cancel any charge accumulated.
This is why when you put a series of copper or aluminium pipes in the earth, it only shows up as a single low volt out.
To stop this "leakage", you have to also insulate the bottom of the tube.

So if you start wrapping the insulating tape at the top of the copper pipe, then take the turns in a downward direction, don't stop when you get to the bottom, always leave a generous couple of turns of the tape to tuck inside and up into the copper pipe.
Just to make sure there will be "no electrical leakage, tear off several strips of insulation tape and put this across the bottom opening of the copper pipe.
It seems to "fix" this electrical leakage.

When you have come this far, the copper pipe and zinc nail now becomes an EARTH BATTERY CELL.

The EBC is now planted UPRIGHT in the earth
Do NOT allow any earth to make contact with the outside of the copper cell.

NEXT fill the INSIDE of the copper pipe with DIRT, that's right, DIRT.
NEXT, carefully insert the zinc nail directly inside the copper pipe you just filled with dirt.

OK the Nails
DONT insulate the nails, you want as much area available to interact with the inside of the copper tube.

It also stands to reason, the more metal you have, the higher the grunt will be.
A 6" tube with a 4 inch zinc nail puts out peanuts, by making each cell larger will improve the output.
 
I think you will find this is the answer to making a series earth battery.

I haven't the means to get big copper pipes or big zinc bars right at this moment so this is going to be a good experiment for anyone who would like to take that on in this forum.

Now WATERing this thingie lol.
This is trial and error, to little water, and the voltage drops, too much water and the voltage drops, I use in the vicinity of 20CC to 50CC of water, a couple of teaspoons.

I will take a few photos showing the stages as I make a cell shortly and post here. In the meen time take a look at this link I made

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7769.270


jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 04:51:43 AM
Hello all,
To those who are following this EB cell build.

Today I have insulated all 63 EB copper pipes and discovered something I was not aware of if you decide to use electrical tape to insulate them.
But first I will describe the steps I took to insulate just 1 copper pipe.

It deserves a fair bit of space so I have made several photos showing the process.

1395 = Take blank uncovered copper pipe
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 04:54:19 AM
Take the insulation tape and begin from the top of the tube, a fraction below where the wire is soldered, and place 2 turns of tape around the pipe.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 04:57:12 AM
Now grip the pipe where the layer of tape is.

Begin to wind the tape in a slight downwards direction, making sure the next turn overlaps the previous turn.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 04:58:29 AM
The tape is now almost at the end of the pipe.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 05:00:49 AM
Continue the turns to the bottom of the pipe, then make sure you have at least 1 or 2 turns of tape to overhang the end of the pipe.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 05:02:48 AM
Next cut the tape from the roll.
Now, tuck the overhanging tape, back upwards up and inside the tube.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 05:04:38 AM
It should now look something like this, the tape can be seen tucked up inside the pipe.
 
It's pritty scruffy, but it will do it's job, insulating the energy or preventing interaction of energy between cells which would nullify the whole setup if this was not done.

This is an essential step so don't skip it.
 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 05:11:11 AM
Next, cut about 2 inches of tape off the roll and stick it across the bottom of the tube end, this is extra "insurance" just in case the above tuckin was dodgy. Now fold both the ends up the side of the tube

Once you have done this, cut another 2 inch of tape and stick it across the end of the tube, but at 90 degrees to the 1st 2 inch tape, make sure it sticks down well.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 05:13:58 AM
Ite end of the tube/cell should now look like this, completly sealed
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 05:18:44 AM
OK, I have now done the same with all 63 EB cells, covered them all in insulation tape, as you can see, I ran out of blue tape, well the black does the same job, just doesn't look as nice.

I doooo recommend you use blue insulation tape, it looks far nicer on the top end of a shiny copper pipe end.

All the pipes are now ready to be put into the earth.


The green at the ends of 2 EB cells is not corrosion, it is green insulation tape.

BTW, I have even used plastic shopping bags to do this job, and I had no problems with them, although I do expect those particular cells to deteriorate with the passage of time as shopping bags are designed to disintegrate over time.

This is the end of the tutorial on how to insulate/prepare the copper pipe.

You may wish to use a different method to insulate you copper pipes, try a Plastic Paint, try capping the bottoms with chair leg rubbers etc etc.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 22, 2009, 05:19:10 AM
Jim:

Thanks for this info.  It is obviously important.  I can't believe the patience you must have to do all of this.  Me?  I would have done like maybe 3 or 4 and then said.....that's enough.

I can't wait to see your readings on this new array.  Please post a scope shot or two of it so we can compare it to your others.

Best of luck to you mate,

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 05:30:46 AM
Hello Bill,
Thanks for those kind words.
As soon as I get them in the ground I will post some more photos of them and discribe the method I used to do it with.

Yep, patience is a virtue lol, my hands and fingers were a bit sore after winding tape over all that lot, but it is worth it.

If each pipe, Earth Battery Cell gives me just 0.5 volts, then in theory I should be getting 30 odd volts out of this setup. ;D

I have seen cells put out higher voltage, especially when they are damp, I seen a couple with 1.0 volt output, so the output of 30 volts is quite conservative.

Thanks Bill.
jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: FreeEnergy on September 22, 2009, 05:44:58 AM
wow thank you so much for sharing this!
can't wait for the final results!

*cheers*
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 07:17:31 AM
The next step.
Looking for a suitable area of ground to plant my cells. ;D

OK thinking about this I have decided not to go looking to the Magnetic North etc, but to see if this setup will work in any direction of the compass.

So I decided to utilise the area right by the back fence on a East Westerly direction, the reason was to be able to make it easier to mow the grass and give me less agro doing this jop.
I don't know about you readers of this forum, but I dislike mowing, especially  around trees and bushes, give me a concrete yard any day, no grass to cut, green painted concrete is nice to look at too.

OK back to my EB cells.

I decided to lay out all 63 EBC in a approx line they may eventually end up in.
 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 07:47:25 AM
A start is made on the trench, the width is the width of the blade of the mattoc.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 07:51:16 AM
I found I had to dig this trench 3 times, it took me hours even though it was in soft soil, my back sure is hurting now.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 07:53:36 AM
Some of the loose soil is left in the trench to support the earth battery cells
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 07:57:36 AM
The trench is finally ready for the next stage, but first we need to do something that is vert important
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 08:02:27 AM
I mentioned the sifting of soil, you need to do this because it is difficult to poor clumps of ground into a 1/2 inch tube.
I got three sives, and I found the middle size one was suitable, the fine graded siv took far too long to pass ultra fine graded soil through it and it blocked quickly.

The next size was jut what the doctor ordered, and it worked a treat.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 08:16:08 AM
Playing in dirt, there is nothing like it.lol

OK what is the best way to handle a siv? I found out by trial and error, grab the sive with the handle, put the soil in it, DONT bump it up or down, that action will only compact the soil, BUT, gently flick the wrist, left to right, left, right, left, right.
This produces a fine soil pile and very quickly at that.

Take a look at the video I made of this arm action.
Notice how the flow of the top of the soil proceeds into the middle of the sive and goes down.

It seems I am having trouble with this video so will post it at the end if I can get it off the phone.

The EB Cells are brought to the site with the pile of fine soil
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 08:21:13 AM
The EB Cells are next placed into their final resting places, each cell has about 1 inch to 1.5 inches spacing between the one next to it.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 08:28:53 AM
Back filling the earth battery cells was tricky, they had a tendency to lean over until I could get more soil to the back of the cells and move them upright, a jig would be great for this but I hadn't thought of this remedy until now.

The small brown shovel/spade is one I made back about 1985, about 25 years ago, I made it to do a bit of gem fossicking up at the "willows" gemfields, there is sapphire there.
Its been a beauty.
 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 08:37:09 AM
Filling a 1/2 incopper tube is no fun with out preperation.
The fine dirt is ready, the soil-tipper-in-a-upper I made out of a 90 degree thin angle sheet steel.
I used my tin snips to put a fine snout on the end of the "tipper"

It worked a treat.

 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 08:45:41 AM
OK all.

When I began this Earth Battery project, most of us had tried to over a period of time to achieve a series connected earth cell arrangement.
We all failed, including myself.
The secret was hidden from everyone for a long time, then I stumbled on it.

Right OH, during my making of this particular earth cell setup, I have stated I would be looking for an output of 30 volts DC.

The following is what I have achieved today the 22nd of September 2009

63 CELL EARTH BATTERY Results

DRY cell Voltage = 20 volts the moment I connected my DMM to it.
It fell to             =17 volts soon after and seem to stay around that figure.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 08:51:53 AM
@ALL
  ;D  ;D  ;D           SUCCESSFUL EXPERIMENT             ;D   ;D    ;D

I have succeeded in getting MORE Voltage out of another Earth Battery Cell setup, wired in SERIES.

I am getting a smugin over 50 volts DC

52.9 volts to be correct, please see photo of DMM reading, WHACKOOOOO.

Now, can I wire up my "original EB cells to this in series and see if I can get MORE voltage?


jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: fabver on September 22, 2009, 09:29:30 AM
Hi electricme,

how much current is produced ?

Thanks
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 22, 2009, 10:26:53 AM
America sleeps whilst discoveries are made Ha ha

@ ALL Electricme has done it again.

Can several series earth batteries be connected in series together?

The answer is YES,
This afternoon I succeeded in doing this.

I have now 3 different Earth cell Batteries

These consist of the two which I made originally several months ago, and the huge one I made today.

The   7 cell Copper pipe earth cells
The 12 cell Aluminium earth cell battery which I made about 1 week later
The 63 cell earth battery I made today
Cells82 cells

I connected them all in series just an hour ago and I am getting 65.3 volts Peek voltage.

I just went outside (its getting fairly dark outside) again to checkup on my new cell setup and I read on the DMM 66.7 volts, yes very nice this ha ha.
 
jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: nightshade on September 22, 2009, 02:12:11 PM
electricme

congrats on that earth setup that's a really impressive voltage

would love to see some leds or a motor running from that setup

that would give mister energizer bunny a run for his money ha ha

 it is nice to see large setups like this it proves that you can get any

voltage you need keep on thinking big




                                    regards shane
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 23, 2009, 01:50:53 AM
@ Nightshade,

Thank you for the congrats,
At the moment all I have done is connect the DMM to this setup.

Next step- is to connect this lot (cells) to one of my extension feed lines (wires) which I have going into the house.

I will do some experiments a bit later on and post the results, I don't expect to be running any motors just at this time though.
As the output is only in Ma's, I would need much more volts to begin to get any useable work out of this setup.

My main gole originally was to see if it was possible to make a series earth cell arrangement, I have prooved here it is possible, it can be done, when many people had tried (well at least they said they had) and failed.
 
It was assumed for many years it just wasn't possible to be done, but it can be.

So I want all those who read this to go to their hardware/plumbing shops and get the copper pipe and zinc rods/nails and put together their own earth battery cells.

If it was just galvanic, then there would be just a steady flow of DC voltage, but several of us with scopes have seen strange things happening on our screens, so our cells are picking up other energy, AC, DC, fluxuating wrigglly energy we can see.
There is a lot to look into here. 


But I do expect to be able to charge caps must faster now.
It's a good excuse to get some larger supercapacitors and see what I can do with them.

Thanks Shane

Keep experimenting

jim
 
BTW there is a massieve dust storm here, and it goes all the way past Sydney, its on a 2000 klm front, deep red dust skies today, it came out of the northern territory so the weather man said.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: xee2 on September 23, 2009, 03:54:34 AM
@ electricme

Great experiment. Thanks for reporting your results.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on September 23, 2009, 04:25:05 AM
@ electricme

did you happen to take any current readings from your battery?

if so, could you please post those results.

the next step is to wire several groups of series-connected cells
in parallel to boost the output current.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 23, 2009, 09:22:58 AM
@ xee2

Thank you for looking and posting your reply.
Im pleased with the output, I will be doubling up the capacity as soon as I can get hold of more materials.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 23, 2009, 09:49:06 AM
@ smOky2
Current out is 47 mA at 58 volts direct short,

I put a standard white LED directly across the output
It survived this, though it is extreamly bright, hurts the eyes to look directly at it.

LED drops the voltage back to 3.3volts at 47mA

I am feeding the LED through about 163 feet of cable, so yes, I like it.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 23, 2009, 05:44:13 PM
Jim:

Excellent output my friend!  This is some great work you are doing over there.  This is the highest voltage output I have ever read about from a set-up like this.  Your mA's are higher as well.  This is a very good step forward Jim.  I like Smokey's idea of having several groups like this and wiring them in parallel to add the power.  Fantastic!

To save on materials, I wonder if you could cut your tube lengths in half and still see the same results?

Interesting you had all those chem trails recently and now, it is all over the world news about your dust storms down there.  I wonder if thy are related?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on September 23, 2009, 05:48:04 PM
You need to run them in parallel now to see what amps you get. If you get enough you could run a dc geared motor hooked to whatever. I would like to see the ratio of amps to voltage with this many pipes.
http://www.hobbyengineering.com/SectionM.html
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 24, 2009, 07:56:52 AM
First to Bill,
Thankyou, I also haven't seen anyone else with this many EB cells in series.

The voltage this morning was hovering about 50volts, the single white LED was blazing away merrily, sign of the EB cells going down, although they were being pegged back a bit.

Yes, the dust storm was a beauty, stone the flaming crows, everything is now pink, pink roof, pink chariot and it was under cover, pink grass, pink everywere. (da pink monster got loose).
It was a bit hard to breathe, at one stage, but never mind, I stayed indoors, didn't drive anywhere, didn't want that stuff in my engine giving it a re-boor job. But today is nice blue skies.

I did feel sorry for the police motorcycle and car going through town, they were an escort for a really big coal mine transporter bucket/tip tray thingy, they were headdin directly into that mess.
Well you will be able to see it for yourselves. :D

jim
 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 24, 2009, 09:03:28 AM
Now to IotaYodi,

You need to run them in parallel now to see what amps you get. If you get enough you could run a dc geared motor hooked to whatever. I would like to see the ratio of amps to voltage with this many pipes.
http://www.hobbyengineering.com/SectionM.html

Now isnt it interresting what a well placed question can do!
I have been thinking about this  for a while, and this morning I braved the elements and with my trusty wire cutters I divided up these 80 cells into 4 seperate banks of 20 cells, which are giving out around 14.7 volts DC each, give a .5 volt or two in difference.

I made up 8 very long jumper leads with small alligator clips at either end of each lead and paralled up these 4 EB cells.

Very interresting indeed.

OK before I divided the cells up, this is the following I observed.

50.5 volts open circuit, short through meter = 0.47 mA not 47mA as I posted back a bit.

I put a single White LED across this lot last night, and it pegs back the voltage to 3.28 volts at 0.20mA. The LED is extreamly bright, and this morning it is still blazing away, didnt look like stopping.

I unhook the LED, the voltage heads upward to 50.5 volts and going higher.
I go outside and water each cell, just enough to form a bubble on top of the tubes, the voltage rises.
I put the White LED  back in circuit, voltage is pegged back to 3.37 volts at 0.46 mA.

*********** end of series experiment ****************

Begin Parallel earth series of experiments.
 
 
This is a Series Parallel EB cell arrangement.
4 Banks of cells in series, connected in parallel

Short out current = 2.69mA dropping to 1.66mA and holding steady.
Voltage drops to = 4.2 volts

Remove short     
Voltage rises to 14 volts fairly quickly to 15volts about 3 minutes later on.
Switch on LED    Voltage drops to 3.502 volts
Current drawn is 1.86mA dropping back to 1.23mA.

one minute later on, LED is extreamly bright.
Voltage is 3.488 volts and slowly dropping
Current is  1.15mA

Remove LED from circuit.
**********************************

I hook my Joule Thief to this 4 parallel EB cell circuit

Voltage 15.30v
At connection, voltage dropped to 0.02v because of flat batt on JT
After a while the JT batt rose to 1.0 v rising to 1.108 volts
Current whilst charging nicad is 1.43 mA

Turn on JT after 1/2 hr of charging batt by EB cells
Red LED came on brightly the became extreamly dim very fast.

Remove nicad batt

Voltage is 14.7 volts
Switch on JT
voltage drops to .798volts in about 30 seconds
Current is 2.30mA, drops to 1.45 mA
LED is on for about 7 seconds

Remove Joule Thief
*****************************

Test a round LED light consisting of 24 HiBright LEDs
This usually takes 4 x 1.5volt dry cells.

OC voltage stert = 16.12v
At switch on, 16.12v Current = 2.5mA  LED is bright, quickly is a constant dimm.
After 5 minutes, Voltage is 2.751 volts Current = 1.30mA semi constant dimm

After examining the photo, I can see the electrical activerty has changed.
It is now 2.717 volts at 1.29mA

Take a look see at this

jim







Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 24, 2009, 01:40:27 PM
@All
Just after I took this photo the old LED decided to burn out, I was sorry about this, the LED had done me a great service in the past.

I am usually very careful about driving them to extension.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: protonmom on September 26, 2009, 02:28:50 AM
Hi everyone!  (Yup, a real post and not a pm, Jeanna)  As you all know, I am very determined to read every word of a thread so as to better understand it.  I just finished reading this thread.  Very interesting!  I would like to say something to Jeanna although it refers to a past post a few back...  Don't give up and Do NOT get discouraged!  If it were not for YOU a lot of threads would dry up.  You keep it going, and you make it interesting for the rest of us.  Some of us may not be able AT THIS MOMENT to do any oscilloscope readings but perhaps later, who knows?  We still need YOU and the others to continue what you are doing.  Some days are slow...just as in all forums...and some days all is clicking so fast we cannot keep up.  Well, I still have to finish my reading of the Joule thief thread, and then...watch out!  I will be going back full time to my EB making and then some.  You know I have most of the parts needed.  Just had to deal with health and family issues, and reading assignments.  If my eyeballs don't fall out, by the time I finish with the very long JT thread, then I will be a happy camper.  All the scope shots you have made are NEEDED.  You can see that there have been many viewings of the posts you have made and they are not for nothing.
I have seen many great ideas that I have to add to my list just by making myself read every word.  I suggest any new person who comes here, should take the time to go back to the beginning and read all the way through.  You will learn a lot, not only about the experiments, but also about the people of this forum.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 26, 2009, 03:14:49 AM
@ protonmom:

Well said.  I agree 100%.

I also agree that everyone should read the previous posts, not necessarily before posting themselves, but for a better understanding of what has been done before, what worked, and what did not.

I have a great respect for you for doing this.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on September 26, 2009, 08:41:26 PM
Good work! I expected more Ma and the large voltage drop with the Led load is weird even at 160 feet.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on September 27, 2009, 04:36:03 AM
Good work! I expected more Ma and the large voltage drop with the Led load is weird even at 160 feet.

this is 'normal' when you connect a load to an earth battery, and measure the output terminals, because it 'draws' the voltage from the circuit. also noticible is when you disconnect the load, the voltage gradually rises again.

one thing to try is place a potentiometer (variable resistor) inline with the diode, and adjust it to the minimum level required to turn the LED on. This should decrease the draw on the circuit.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on September 27, 2009, 03:36:01 PM
Quote
this is 'normal' when you connect a load to an earth battery
Didnt know it was normal for an eb. Does the Voltage at the source,eb itself,stay nominal or does that drop too?
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: sm0ky2 on September 28, 2009, 01:31:25 AM
Didnt know it was normal for an eb. Does the Voltage at the source,eb itself,stay nominal or does that drop too?

that's what i was talking about - at the source.
meaning across the output terminals of the EB/ array of EB's while the load is connected.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on September 28, 2009, 03:25:09 AM
Thanks Smokey! Thats a substantial voltage drop on such a small load.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 28, 2009, 05:58:59 AM
I have to say that this is not normal from any of my EB experiment experience.  Milli amps drop under load but volts either stay the same, or increase.  That is what is so cool about it, it appears to rise to the occasion.  The more you ask it to do , the more it does....to a point of course.

I am not the only one to see this, check the EB topics and you will see others have as well.

Just my 2 cents.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on September 28, 2009, 06:03:17 AM
@ Jeanna,

Protomom and Pirate88179 are both right on the money.

@all,
I just got back from my weekend away, you wouldn't read about it, two huge dust storms in a single week in my neck of the woods (Queensland way), dust was every where, thick n thin.
It was interresting while it lasted, but I'm glad it's over, seems the dusk went over the "ditch" to New Zealand, the snow turned pink in the high places ha ha.

On Saturday afternoon, I could actually look at the sun, then after half an hour the sun turned light blue with a bluish disk, weird stuff.

jim 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 14, 2009, 12:44:14 PM
Earth cells still working as I expected.
LED is still glowing since I upgraded my cells in a parallel series configuration about 3 weeks ago.

Had some storms activity yesterday, I had a scope on the EB C and was watching it, as lightning FLASHED, well it looked to me like the waveform seemed to shrink as the lightning appeared, then the waveform rebounded slowly back up to its previous level, very interresting this, pity I didnt do a TWV of it, just didnt think about that.

Last weekend I bought 6 meters of 3/4 inch annealed copper tubeing from Bunnings, its a single coil pack. I want to make up another EBC with this size and use a magnesium coated rod I bought.

Hope to get into making this new cell shortly, might make a start on it tomorrow.

BTW, the black box is a Instrumentation Interface for a PC sound card, bought this from Jaycar, its a twin channel input, twin output to display a scope pattern in the computer, I havent tried it yet, found out I dont have a joystick card in the PC, siiii well I can wire it up to a USB plug for the 5volts that is needed to drive it.

Now got to find and download some scope software to run the thing
So much to doooo.

Discovered I posted the wrong photo of the LED 1590, 1592 to 1593 are the corect ones, when sw is to the left or right, either LED is lit up
Sw in center position both are out, voltage has risen to 7.92v and as I post this off it has reached 9.67v OC no water in cells since last 3 days.

 
jim
 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 14, 2009, 06:00:19 PM
Jim:

Glad to see you.  Man, that is a lot of copper there, that with the mag. should really give a nice output I think.

Great to hear your cells are still running strong.  This is great news.

That is interesting about the lightning reaction.  That is not what I would have expected but, I am glad to know what really happens.

Take care mate,

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 20, 2009, 10:44:47 AM
@all,

I was thinking, what else can I use with the output of my EBC.

I decided to fool around with making a capacitor, nothing flash mind you, just a very simple arrangement, which I made out of ordinary easy to come by household items.

I grabbed 2 empty clear plastic A4 sleeves, grabbed my alfoil, the stuff we all have to wrap food up and stick in the fridge or stove.
I insurted one clear plastic envelope inside the other one, both openings facing outwards.

I tore off 2 sizeable alfoil sheets, stuck one alfoil sheet into one side of the clear plastic envelope, the other one I insurted inside the other envelope.

Next I connected my EBC leads to either sheet, it dosent matter which round it goes, but just keep an eye out for polarity.

I disconnected the EBC leads, immediately hooking up my white LED.
It flashed on for an instant and went out.
It was not bright, but very very dim.
If you are not fast, the charge flotes away.

BUT IT WORKED lol.


 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 20, 2009, 11:17:31 AM
Its Cartoon time folks

What is electricme up to?

 ;D
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on October 20, 2009, 11:16:10 PM
Hi Jim,
I was reading somewhere but I dunno where...
It might only flash one or 2 times per day.

[edit : found it
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=972.msg204504#msg204504 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=972.msg204504#msg204504)
end edit]
Quote
I disconnected the EBC leads, immediately hooking up my white LED.
It flashed on for an instant and went out.
It was not bright, but very very dim.
If you are not fast, the charge flotes away.

BUT IT WORKED lol.


 
*

Did you leave it in place out there?
I am thinking maybe there was a charge accumulation from all the activity involved in making the cap (I totally love that you made it all!).
Maybe you can set up a buzzer instead of a led. peizo buzzers take next to nothing to cause a sound and you do not need to have your eyes glued to the spot to see its period.

cool... I need to download stuff to watch your vid or else turn on my mac, but I am using this ubuntu computer so I don't need to use the mac here at ou...

thank you for this cool update.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cosmicfarmer on October 21, 2009, 07:09:08 AM
Huzzah! rods in a ground I can monitor.  Japan wasn't going to happen, unless I bought a farm for 200 a year, which would be swank and I might do that april... but now I am home in DC ish area.

I got a Carbon and Magnesium.  I forgot which way to position them so I should ask here... 

But right now the carbon is northernerly at exactly Latitude = 38.8922, Longitude = -77.1554
and the magnesium is southernerly at Latitude = 38.8920, Longitude = -77.1554, so 1 tenthousandths of a degreee off. 
Should I switch their position?
I am letting them entrain over a 1 ohm resistor.
I like circuits that plug into the ground.

I will construct tomorow a camera flash jeul theif. Fuji? I have his cd right here. Then the output will go to Dr Stiffler SEC... and from there a gigantic panel of LED's and I will wake up the neighbors at night...  Oh boy.

I would like a less then 20 volt backspike though, I think the 500 or so volts that fuji gives would fry the Doc's tiny circuit.  I wonder to make a solid state and a frequency counter attached together to make a power supply?  Ah im just dreaming !!   

So I got some gigantic supercaps, 3 of em. only a few volts though. Also some of those ultra low volt transistors.  And a lot else.

If anyone has any suggestions in arranging those to obtain the most light, please tell me, while I offer up scope shots of the resistor in my backyard.

Ok so heres the questions all arranged in order.
hello,
1. which one should go north and south? carbon / magnesium
2. any idea on how to charge a cap most efficient from the ground?
3. how to bump 3 volts 650f to ~18 - 20v
4. Anyone know of any Ley Lines around?

thats it, 

Hi to Jeanna  thx for sticking in there

peace.




 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 21, 2009, 09:13:39 AM
 :)Hello can someone help me ??

My 90 foot long, 6-7 foot high long wire antenna + my ground pipe connection gives me as follows...
5 volts (AC) and only .06 ma  NIGHTIME measurement
6 volts (AC) and only .13 ma  DAYTIME  measurement

When i use this to power simple joule thief it measures as follows...
3.1 volts (AC) and 2.6 volts (DC) and 3.14 ma NIGHTIME measurement
3.6 volts (AC) and 2.9 volts (DC) and 3.45 ma DAYTIME  measurement !

Why a higher voltage and current during daytime ? Anybody know why ?

Any way to raise current higher so i can light LED ?

This is free power that I am getting from this system !  Anyone tried this ?
 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 21, 2009, 05:04:22 PM
@all,

I was thinking, what else can I use with the output of my EBC.

I decided to fool around with making a capacitor, nothing flash mind you, just a very simple arrangement, which I made out of ordinary easy to come by household items.

I grabbed 2 empty clear plastic A4 sleeves, grabbed my alfoil, the stuff we all have to wrap food up and stick in the fridge or stove.
I insurted one clear plastic envelope inside the other one, both openings facing outwards.

I tore off 2 sizeable alfoil sheets, stuck one alfoil sheet into one side of the clear plastic envelope, the other one I insurted inside the other envelope.

Next I connected my EBC leads to either sheet, it dosent matter which round it goes, but just keep an eye out for polarity.

I disconnected the EBC leads, immediately hooking up my white LED.
It flashed on for an instant and went out.
It was not bright, but very very dim.
If you are not fast, the charge flotes away.

BUT IT WORKED lol.


 

Jim:

Great to hear from you.  Nice work on the capacitor.  The cartoon is great as well.  I have been tied up with work lately but hope to back on here soon.

Take care,

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on October 21, 2009, 07:41:38 PM
Hi cosmicfarmer,

I'm glad you are able to play some more... til it freezes, I guess.

Quote
Ok so heres the questions all arranged in order.
hello,
1. which one should go north and south? carbon / magnesium

Carbon North as you have made it.
I'm sorry, this is the only one I can answer.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on October 21, 2009, 07:55:46 PM
:)Hello can someone help me ??

My 90 foot long, 6-7 foot high long wire antenna + my ground pipe connection gives me as follows...
5 volts (AC) and only .06 ma  NIGHTIME measurement
6 volts (AC) and only .13 ma  DAYTIME  measurement

When i use this to power simple joule thief it measures as follows...
3.1 volts (AC) and 2.6 volts (DC) and 3.14 ma NIGHTIME measurement
3.6 volts (AC) and 2.9 volts (DC) and 3.45 ma DAYTIME  measurement !

Why a higher voltage and current during daytime ? Anybody know why ?

Any way to raise current higher so i can light LED ?

This is free power that I am getting from this system !  Anyone tried this ?
Hi freepow,
First, I want to say thanks for bringing your eb questions over here.

I cannot help with the amps because I have never been able to light a led directly from my eb.
The highest amps I ever got were 162 and I am never sure with this meter... it might be microamps and 0.9 volts, but not ever at the same time.
If I do something to raise the amps the voltage drops.
Assuming you have 6 volts from your antenna, you should have room to spare for lowering it to make amps.
The only way I was ever able to do it was by adding additional lines that come together at the single probe.

There is a guy who visited these parts for a very short time calling himself t3t4.
He also wanted to harvest the rays with an antenna.
To this end he hooked up a battery in the middle place between the antenna and the ground probe.
There were caps that caught the rays and then dumped them into the battery.
I had a AAA 2 pack and was able to get the 2 batteries up to 1.17v and when I brought them inside each one was indeed able to run a joule thief, so it was free from the kind of connection you are talking about.
You seem to have a lot more rays where you live, so your batteries could get higher voltages.
I'd say try it this way... I will see if I can find a link to the page he was using.
(But, keep posting your results here please. so the threads do not continue to be so scrambled.)

Great progress, bye the way.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on October 21, 2009, 08:06:39 PM
Well lighting does hit the earth and well we all know metal conducts electric and since ions have an electric effect that gets electric as it has been proven regardless it does have effect on your two rods, when it's stormy you will know why..and yes you can pump electric into the earth because these earth energy receivers was used for telegrapth.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on October 21, 2009, 08:13:07 PM
Well said liftdaniel.

@freepow
I found the section I was referring to.

This is the drawing he posted and the one I used. It is almost his first post but where you could benefit from starting:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.msg198229#msg198229 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.msg198229#msg198229)

This is pretty much where it ended.
He posted some very good clear pictures of his components and reported that he would not continue, so between these 2 places is what I am recommending.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.msg199221#msg199221 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.msg199221#msg199221)

As I said I got 1.17v in each battery. I hope you can get more.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cosmicfarmer on October 22, 2009, 05:32:50 AM
Hi electricme, and pirate if I havn't said so already.

I'm just ratchetjawin' now but I'll edit this post and put a night time pic of EB.  Hee Hee fun in the garden with green wavy lines!!  What I am doing is a compromise between buying a new meter and not using the one I have.  I got a tiny 400w inverter and a battery I used on bedini projects and I'll just put the scope on a small table and put the inverter and batt on top and make a whole portible unit.

Even though the whole thing would be large, alot larger then the flukeoscope... it has CRT goodness.  Theres just something about a magnetically deflected electron beam that has traveled through a chamber just for it that appeals to my eyes, and black and white digitals just remind me of math class.  :-)  Maybe have a pocket sized vaccum tube and a circuit as a scope? hhaha ok I'm just fantasizing now... about alien technology... but we are the aliens....  its our technology we get to rediscover!


One thought about earth batteries I had is that if you take earth currents which could support the magnetosphere and run it through your loads to make it weaker, then your helping pole shift or magnetosphere destruction / change - whatever... but... Then I thought some more, and realized the current would take the wires and the load over the non stressed rocks any day so your doing the magnetosphere a FAVOR and allowing more coherent directed flow.

BTW rocks stressed with physical pressure just under breaking behave photoelectrically and also broadcast / absorb RF waves... earthquake prediction using this method gave weeks detection time and 80% reliability, however it could also give false positives or ignore real positives... ... Didnt I learn that here?  If you need the reference I can try to find it again.  When the rocks were sheared and made square, and pressure was applied uniformily, the rocks did not behave as I had stated before, so it must be pressure differences in rocks doing something.  :-D

Superconducting rocks.

Ok I'm going to go run out to my nighttime groundwave garden

Click Here!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fM11GYh514

awesome movie - if you like wavy green lines :)
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 22, 2009, 10:32:41 AM
 :)Hello everyone,  I just put a 4 inch long copper tube in the ground and a 6 inch long - thick galv wire 3 feet away stuck in the ground and got a nice easy .8 to .9 volts DC at a max of .5 ma...
Not bad for free power, Imagine if you stuck a few hundred of these small EB's in the ground, you might end up with a considerable current !

If i wired up 1000 of these in my yard area, I may get .5 to 1 amp or more... permanently...
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 22, 2009, 12:30:25 PM
Can someone show me how to make a simple Earth battery (stubblefield) , One that has wire wound around it, one that gets at least 20 ma + ?????
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cosmicfarmer on October 22, 2009, 05:34:00 PM
A stubblefield generator has a zinc bolt core, copper and steel wire bifilar wrap with cotton insulator, and outside of that, is a tertiary winding which a high voltage frequency is applied until the earth becomes entrained.

Check out his patents?

And I don't think you can force an amperage...  If you get an entrained EB or stubblefield your amps can get high but it seems hard to entrain properly.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on October 23, 2009, 12:49:47 AM
A stubblefield generator has a zinc bolt core, copper and steel wire bifilar wrap with cotton insulator, and outside of that, is a tertiary winding which a high voltage frequency is applied until the earth becomes entrained.

Check out his patents?

And I don't think you can force an amperage...  If you get an entrained EB or stubblefield your amps can get high but it seems hard to entrain properly.
Hi cosmicfarmer,

Correction

No zinc anywhere.
Stubblefield specified soft iron.
No steel either, just soft iron.
freepow I gave some patent info on the stubblefield thread cuz I saw your request there.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 23, 2009, 03:48:12 AM
@All,
Sorry for this late reply, havent been ignoreing you all, I been in hospital with diverticulitis, as one of my daughters likes to say "my insides hurt" on occasions lol.

I will get back to you all in a moment, but first I need to take a looksee at the web address jeana posted

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 23, 2009, 04:17:14 AM
@jeanna,

Hi Jim,
I was reading somewhere but I dunno where...
It might only flash one or 2 times per day.

[edit : found it
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=972.msg204504#msg204504 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=972.msg204504#msg204504)
end edit]
Did you leave it in place out there?
I am thinking maybe there was a charge accumulation from all the activity involved in making the cap (I totally love that you made it all!).
Maybe you can set up a buzzer instead of a led. peizo buzzers take next to nothing to cause a sound and you do not need to have your eyes glued to the spot to see its period.

cool... I need to download stuff to watch your vid or else turn on my mac, but I am using this ubuntu computer so I don't need to use the mac here at ou...

thank you for this cool update.

jeanna

Thankyou for your responce, I will endeavor to answer your questions as best I can.

The whole setup I made in the house, on my work bench, the energy I feed to the homemade cap is via a set of extension leads which are connected outside to my EB cells.
How many times a day could I flash a LED with it, well thousands of times, the LED must be removed from the circuit, the capacitor recharged then the leads on the capacitor must be removed and the LED placed across the capacitor to get it to flash.
I might rig up a rotary switch to make it easier to do this.
 
A charge initailly would have acumulated while I was making the capacitor, but once it was discharged, then there would be no more charge, any other charge would be only supplied via my EBCells.

An pizo buzzer would need a fair amount of energy to be acumulated to make it go beep, at the moment, it only gives a flash for an instant, then it's all gone.

To make it more efficient, I would need to over the, time, current accumulated, energy transferr to device racieo. (I tried for 3 minutes to spell it) lol

jim
 :D
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 23, 2009, 04:55:13 AM
@Cosmicfarmer,

Wow,

Huzzah! rods in a ground I can monitor.  Japan wasn't going to happen, unless I bought a farm for 200 a year, which would be swank and I might do that april... but now I am home in DC ish area.

I got a Carbon and Magnesium.  I forgot which way to position them so I should ask here... 

But right now the carbon is northernerly at exactly Latitude = 38.8922, Longitude = -77.1554
and the magnesium is southernerly at Latitude = 38.8920, Longitude = -77.1554, so 1 tenthousandths of a degreee off. 
Should I switch their position?
I am letting them entrain over a 1 ohm resistor.
I like circuits that plug into the ground.

I will construct tomorow a camera flash jeul theif. Fuji? I have his cd right here. Then the output will go to Dr Stiffler SEC... and from there a gigantic panel of LED's and I will wake up the neighbors at night...  Oh boy.

I would like a less then 20 volt backspike though, I think the 500 or so volts that fuji gives would fry the Doc's tiny circuit.  I wonder to make a solid state and a frequency counter attached together to make a power supply?  Ah im just dreaming !!   

So I got some gigantic supercaps, 3 of em. only a few volts though. Also some of those ultra low volt transistors.  And a lot else.

If anyone has any suggestions in arranging those to obtain the most light, please tell me, while I offer up scope shots of the resistor in my backyard.

Ok so heres the questions all arranged in order.
hello,
1. which one should go north and south? carbon / magnesium
2. any idea on how to charge a cap most efficient from the ground?
3. how to bump 3 volts 650f to ~18 - 20v
4. Anyone know of any Ley Lines around?

thats it, 

Hi to Jeanna  thx for sticking in there

peace.



Q1
Magnesium and Carbon rod placements, the best person to ask this Q to would be Bill (pirate88179) he has the best setup I know of to date over on the joule thief forum, but it seems strange how the joule thief stuff pops up here now and then along with other stuff, all seems to be intergrated one way or other.
Bills success far outweighs any of mine, jeanna also is a good source of knowledge in this area with Xee2, IST and others.

Now a gigantic array of LEDs to wake up the neighbours at night, ha ha ha, go for it bro, if you can get this to work, your are off to a good start.

I have been toying with an idea of using several voltage regulators in parallel  to step down a higher voltage to run something, dont know what just yet, got to make up the couple of voltage regulators I bought reciently.

Q2
Charging a cap from energy from the ground, depends on many different factors.
Length of array, depth of electrodes, metals used and amounts.
Each gives out more or less energy.
For instance I can get 60 odd volts out of 83 EBcells, but, it is in uA(micro amps), but, bill gets enough energy out of 1 carbon rod and 1 magnesium bar/rod to light up 500 LEDs.

Now I readon the net, the placement of the EBcells etc, this I am beginning to understand is a critical factor, google earth and a applet attatchment shows me I live in an area where there is almost NO activerty, unlucky me.
I have tried making a aerial power doover, it dosent work at all, I will post it here as the perfect example. The town where I live is between the RED and Blue, unlucky light white/yellow/green lol.
 
Q3
Bumping 3v to 18 - 20 volts
well a timing arrangement should do this, I have toyed around with this, but couldn't get my head or enough bits together to try it, I made a circuit on the JT topic but no-one picked up on it.
My theory is, have a heep of capacitors being charged and discharged in a continous cycle, it takes time to charge a cap, so you need to work out the charge time, discharge is instant, so can the earth battery recharge a setup of several caps in a second? the faster it can do this the better theoutcome.
A discharge gap spark unlocks the aeather which exposes more energy to play with lol.
Q4
Leylines, now you are talking.
All I need is to see telleric energy flowing through the earth and space my electrodes the width between the leylines, in parallel with them.
The longer the electrodes the more energy I should be able to accumulate.

The trick is to get someone who can devide them using a L wire etc etc, then peg them out, put a peg or marker at where the leylines cross each other.
I must read up a bit more about this topic.

hope this helps you.

PS BELL is the name of a town close to me, the cross is where I live, as you can see, I need to move away from a no energy area to an area that has energy, either to a Blue area or a Red area, but I need to investigate this more.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 23, 2009, 05:13:47 AM
@ Freepow

:)Hello can someone help me ??

My 90 foot long, 6-7 foot high long wire antenna + my ground pipe connection gives me as follows...
5 volts (AC) and only .06 ma  NIGHTIME measurement
6 volts (AC) and only .13 ma  DAYTIME  measurement

When i use this to power simple joule thief it measures as follows...
3.1 volts (AC) and 2.6 volts (DC) and 3.14 ma NIGHTIME measurement
3.6 volts (AC) and 2.9 volts (DC) and 3.45 ma DAYTIME  measurement !

Why a higher voltage and current during daytime ? Anybody know why ?

Any way to raise current higher so i can light LED ?

This is free power that I am getting from this system !  Anyone tried this ?

The daytime vs Night time gives you the clue, the sun is the source of the energy during the night time, I think the energy is cosmic radiation, the length of the aerial is the key to this, if you know the frequency of the cosmic wave, convert it to a dipole length and you should be in tune with the cosmic ray.
Then put a series (read this is a number of antennas) of antennas up, in parallel to get amps out of it.

Trick is to see what happens under a fixed load, does the energy you get out of the single array disseaper under a load? if it does, then you need to lighten the load to keep it going.
Try putting a silicon diode in line with it and across it in turn, see whats the result.
Put a completly flatt battery acros sthe output, see after 24 hours if it got any energy put into it. Do the same with a capacitor.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 23, 2009, 06:55:12 AM
@Freepow,

Can someone show me how to make a simple Earth battery (stubblefield) , One that has wire wound around it, one that gets at least 20 ma + ?????

(Grab a 12v DC wet cell car battery, through a wire around it) lol

Its not as simple as this, (wish it was though).

Actually, no-one has been able to come anywhere close to Nathan Stubblefields success, and a lot of research on the net has taken place by some very good friends of mine who can vouch for this.

You would need to make a start by reading both of these Stubblefield related forums, LocalJoes then read up on Pirate88179 forum, if you manage to last the distance, then you would have some idea of what we all were facing.

The joule thief forum began because of the frustration we all had, this tought us about toroids, winding techniques (bifilar) which are related to stubblefields coils, making and breaking circuits at the peak of the magnetic fields etc etc
Jeannas work there was and is legend along with all the others.

A key to understanding his work is to read up the patients stubblefield had, these will give you some idea of the material he used in his devices, replicate them, and wouldn't it be surprising if you got a result first off.
My personal view is, to really pile on the winds, make the thing so big and heavy that teleric currents will seek it out.
Put some pointy ends on the iron bar, long pointy ends, pointy ends concentrate magnetic fields.

Do you bury the things vertically or horozontally, looking at a patient, I see a vertically orented cell working better as the energy enters and exits it faster.
This may be a key to its operation.
 
One of the keys to making discoveries is to read up on all the notes relating to the topic you want to try.

Study the youtube images, try and see if there is something the poster has missed telling you in his post of them, all little bits of info helps.
Get a "feeling" a "hunch" and act on it.

This probably hasn't answered you question, but if another person reads it, try the above for answers.

OK for a start, get your self any lenght steel bolt, insulate it and wind on it in bifalar 2 sets of wire, one copper, the other iron, then put it in the ground, connect a meter to it and see if there is any energy.
If there none, try connecting the outputs in a different configuration, retest.
Keep going, keep doing this, keep testing and testing.

Try different size wire.
Try different size and length iron bolt
Stubblefield drove us to pulling our hair out, wanna join the mob? you are welcome, ha ha

Seriously, when this stubblefield device is working, when someone has cracked how to do it, it will be an amazing day indeed.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 23, 2009, 07:27:57 AM
@All,

Its time to pack up shop for a few more days, I still not well enough to keep at this for too long right now so I will be back in a few days to catch up.

Wow, this is good stuff, I have missed it.

jim

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 23, 2009, 09:13:17 AM
 :) :)  Jim, I have included a graph with just odd times of the day when I could measure it,
This is with my 90 foot long wire antenna for (+) and a galv iron pipe in the ground for (-)
what do you think it is...

Cosmic rays ???
AC power lines ??
Radio waves ??

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 23, 2009, 09:21:34 AM
I want to say, that usually in afternoon it drops quickly.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 23, 2009, 09:37:54 AM
@freepow,
Very nice graph,  ;D      now first question, how did you do it, I mean, make this graph? I ask as I don't know how to do it, and I know less and less the more I know, if that makes any sence.
I have found a free EKG program but still not loaded it into my PC and havent modified my (JAYCAR) 2 chanel scope which matches my sound cards input, I was feeling too crook the last two weeks to do anything.

So whats going on, well the safe answer is, all frequencies are involved, the trick is to narrow it back to the one that is the most likely one.

I didnt print it out, so I had better do that and get back in a little while.

BTW I came across this little gem of info just a little while ago, wow they were fast Tiny7  try this
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8198.msg205661

@all,
I couldnt help myself, had to get on the forum again at another location this time.

jim

 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: d3adp00l on October 23, 2009, 09:38:59 AM
excel probably
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 23, 2009, 10:53:39 AM
@freepow

I want to say, that usually in afternoon it drops quickly.

This could be a KEY.
OK this theory (of mine) depends on the orentation of your aerial antenna.

As we know the earth rotates in an easterly direction, so if your antenna poles (supports) are east and west, then as the earth revolves the antenna, the antenna intercepts the cosmic rays (mostly from the sun) at noon or midday it will have most cosmic rays presented to it.
At 6 pm or 6 am, the ends of the antenna is presented end on to the sun, so less cosmic ray energy makes contact.
As the earth rotates a bit more, more energy is presented from other fainter outside sources

If the antenna was facing North to south, I think you would get more cosmic ray energy to play with.

An hour ago I printed out your chart, now I carnt find it, hmmmmm
jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on October 23, 2009, 08:26:51 PM

~~~~~~~
:)Me again !
Also I strung up a 90 foot long wire outside for an antenna, its about 6-7 feet off the ground, also a nice galv-iron pipe in the ground for a good ground connection, I have the antenna comming inside also the ground pipe connected seperatly comming inside also...
I connected the antenna to the (+) input of a simple joule thief, then the ground pipe connection to the
(-) input of the simple joule thief, and to my surprise I am getting just over
3 volts AC, just over 2.5 volts DC, and only 3.14 ma. Its free power but not sure how to raise the current higher so I can light a LED !   Any ideas would be appreciated, thanks !
~~~~~


Freepow

I made a copy of your first description of this.

Are you able to make a drawing and post it so I can see the antenna part as well as the joule thief part and how and where they connect to each other?

I am confused by your description especially which end comes inside , so... I dunno, you may have discovered something here and I hope you can make us a picture.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 24, 2009, 03:12:38 PM
 :)Hello, this is how the antenna (+), also seperate ground connection (-)

If I connect this to a multi meter the maximum i get is during afternoon at 6 volts (AC) No volts (DC)
and .2 (ma)

If I connect this into a simple joule thief circuit, meaning instead of joule thief powered by 1-AA, the joule thief is powered by this antenna at the (+) and ground connection to the (-) and i get about 3.8 volts (AC) and 3.2 volts (DC) and a better current of 3.4 (ma), It seems to have amplified my current ! but dropped the AC-volts and I now have DC-volts too !

Almost forgot to say, Hope no one thinks silly  :-[of me, but I have made the graph and picture of antenna from just the simple paint program on my computer   ;)
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 24, 2009, 03:23:33 PM
My antenna (+) connection from the South West end comes into house and the ground pipe (-) connection comes into house also as second picture shows...
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 24, 2009, 03:34:11 PM
I will start experimenting to see how many more of same antennas i can put underneath each other or maby side by side to see if I can increase current ! like next picture shows...
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 24, 2009, 07:45:34 PM
@ Freepow:

Nice drawings, good job.

My questions is this.  You are running a JT from your antenna but, you say you are only getting AC from the antenna correct?  I was not aware that a JT circuit would operate from an ac input.  I always thought these were dc devices and would not work on pulsed dc or ac.  If this is really correct, it opens up some new possibilities.

Yours is the best voltage I have seen so far from an antenna system, nice work.

PS  I do my drawings in paint as well but, yours look good and mine suck, ha ha.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on October 24, 2009, 08:14:15 PM
Thanks freepow,
These drawings helped me understand this.

I like what you are showing and I think I will try something like this too.
My setup for datalogging is a lot like what you are doing (without the comfort of a house)
My meter is (occasionally connected) where your house is.
My multimeter shows 0.6vdc 185mA and my scope shows 85mv ac

Do you use any diodes?

@Bill,
You can start a joule thief with pulses, but the effect is very weak.

It is what I was doing when I "discovered" the effects in the 2 tiered circuit (which has evolved.)

The problem has to do with the transistor receiving pulses as input.
Its whole purpose is to make pulses, so to have 2 things making the pulses could either work by duplication, or not work by cancellation.

I think freepow got lucky on this one.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 24, 2009, 09:45:03 PM
Jeanna:

Thank you.  That aligns with my current (no pun intended) thinking of the JT circuits.

@ Freepow:

Have you checked your meter?  I mean, it is possible that you have blown one of the 2 fuses in it which might make it show 0 volts on the dc scale.  Does it still show dc from a battery?  Sorry to ask this type of question but hey, I lost the amps reading side of one of my meters 3 times due to blown fuses and it read 0.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: gyulasun on October 24, 2009, 11:15:36 PM
Hi Bill and All,

Normally a long piece of wire erected relatively high in the air and held insulated in its position cannot really produce a DC voltage wrt the ground because I believe any voltage that is able to develop in it is by induction, hence it must be AC. 
I suggest Freepow to rectify the AC, by using a diode bridge, preferable made from 4 germanium diodes to minimize the forward voltage drop. The AC input of the bridge connects to the antenna end wire and the ground wire and DC output of the bridge should go to a puffer (electrolytic) capacitor and to this capacitor a load like a JT may be connected.
If you do not have germanium diodes like 1N34A 1N270 etc but happen to have germanium transistors in your junkbox, you may also use them as a diode.  If you have only silicon diodes at hand (1N914, 1N4148 etc) it is also good of course but the forward voltage drop (2 times 0.7V in the bridge) will reduce the useful DC output.  Schottky diodes are also a better choice than the Si ones in this respect.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 24, 2009, 11:41:40 PM
 :) Hi all, Jeanna what do you mean when you say...My multimeter shows 0.6vdc 185mA and my scope shows 85mv ac ???

How do you get 185mA ???
Can you explain what you do to get this ??? or a drawing !

Oh, yes my multimeter reads DC-volts with no problem, I get DC-volts out of my antenna system when it goes through the joule thief!
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: gyulasun on October 24, 2009, 11:44:07 PM
one more thing: such a setup behaves like a current source or current generator,  well more or less. This means that its instantenous output current and hence voltage always depends on the real value of the load you use.
The biggest current it is capable of can be measured by short-circuiting the ground and antenna end wires by an AC ampermeter if you could have a very wideband AC ampermeter from some ten Hz frequency to several ten or hundred MHz frequency,  such an instrument is very rare and expensive.  A solution is the wideband diode bridge and shorting its DC output by a DC ampermeter. The current indicated this way is the maximum that this antenna wire will be able to supply and its output voltage under this measurement is the 2 forward voltage drop out of the 4 diodes in the bridge.
Suppose you have germanium diode bridge, and the voltage drop is two times 0.12V on two of its diodes. and you measure 10mA DC current on your current meter via the bridge output, then the useful power available from this antenna is 2*0.12V*10mA= 2.4mW (milliWatt).
This way you can estimate the max output power you can use from this antenna setup, used as an energy source. 

You may speculate on what is the real source that feeds this long piece of wire?  My personal opinion is that it comes by induction from the man-made energy sources like mains power lines, radio and televison broadcast stations, military and police transmitters etc etc.

rgds, Gyula
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 24, 2009, 11:52:16 PM
Does anyone think its AC power lines?
                             cosmic rays    ?
                             radio waves    ?
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on October 25, 2009, 12:05:12 AM
:) Hi all, Jeanna what do you mean when you say...My multimeter shows 0.6vdc 185mA and my scope shows 85mv ac ???

How do you get 185mA ???
Can you explain what you do to get this ??? or a drawing !

I have an ordinary EEB but added to that on each end I have a stubblefield generator. This brought my voltage reading on the dmm down about .200-.300Vdc, but it also rose the amps to well above 150mA.
I still cannot light a led, however... still hoping though.  :D

I posted a drawing a few times.
It was around august 1 or so, maybe looking by date will help a little?


Quote
Oh, yes my multimeter reads DC-volts with no problem, I get DC-volts out of my antenna system when it goes through the joule thief!
Are you reading this across the C-E junction with a led in there? Even without a led in there, that is good news.


Didn't you get a scope?
I really believe that is the best way to show this.
I think gyula's suggestions are assuming you do not have one?

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 25, 2009, 01:07:44 AM
Yes my scope says similar volts but my calculations say that the frequency of the signal = 132.57 HZ on the scope...
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 25, 2009, 01:10:22 AM
Jeanna, please could you post a diagram of how you did this and instructions how to build it, I would love to build something like that to get great mA ,please
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on October 25, 2009, 01:13:18 AM
Yes,
That is very possible.
I get waves all the way from I don't remember to 22.5hz then 22khz then on up to beyond an amount my scope can show.

This is all out there and you could be collecting it..
I think it is helpful to everybody in this effort to take the measurements every day while the weather holds. This way we know when we are seeing normal or abnormal things.
You are in range.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 25, 2009, 03:45:59 AM
 :) Hello I am posting my Earth battery results and in process of graphing one full day's volts and current output on my Antenna+ground connection.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 25, 2009, 05:13:14 AM
Freepow:

What was your alignment?  Also, the output increases as you increase the distance between your electrodes.  Polar north/south appears to work the best.  (Not magnetic)  These are decent numbers you have but, with a little tweaking, I'll bet you can increase them.  Good work.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on October 25, 2009, 05:59:14 AM
Here is an idea to try and raise voltage and amps.

Place a parallel resonant circuit that is tunable before the ground rod.  This can probably be made out of an old radio?  Slowly tune across the spectrum and monitor the voltage.   This will raise voltage in the tank circuit when it is in tune to frequencies coming out of the ground.  You could use a scope or freq counter to see what these freq peaks are.  This will raise voltage.

Then connect the same components as a series resonant circuit before the ground rod.  As you tune across the spectrum, at the same freqs you should see a rise in amps.  This should rise the amps.

Try and find one freq that will give you the most volts when in parallel mode and the most amps when in series mode.  The trick will be if we can connect both modes together?  Maybe two sets of ground rods.  One pair wired parallel and one pair wired series and somehow sum them together?

Sorry I am not in a position to experiment myself.  Just offering a suggestion.   You can google resonant circuits to get a picture of what I am talking about between parallel and series resonant mode.

Tishatang
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 25, 2009, 10:04:30 AM
Hello,  freepow from down under !
I have tried a parallel and series circuit on my Earth battery and also on my antenna+ground connection but did'nt get higher volts or mA with either, my Earth battery running almost North/South, A correction I must make is that my Antenna and ground is actually running East/West and the Sun is currently setting about the same as the antenna line runs,
Here is my full one day graph of volts(AC) and also current (mA) of the output of my Antenna (+) and
ground pipe (-) for today Sunday Oct 25, 2009.
Hope this helps someone to tell me what i am recieving ?
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 25, 2009, 10:07:31 AM
My One day results.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 25, 2009, 10:20:48 AM
Sorry !  Must say one more thing... When I measured my antenna+ground pipe back on Fri 23-Oct, the current peaked unusually high at .2 mA for a about one hour... 1-2 hours before the sun set, yet the current usually peaks at about .13 during the best part of the day.  Why such a spike of current on Fri, I have no idea   :o
Even though it may be such a small amount of current, it still nearlly doubled at one stage on that day,
but the volts stayed at the same level during that reading and also 1-2 hours before and after that reading !
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on October 25, 2009, 08:38:44 PM
MY apologies freepow and anybody else.

I said 265mA and realized later that this should be uA.

The little meter I have has resolutions that catch me.

Your findings are higher than mine by a lot.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on October 25, 2009, 08:43:44 PM
Here is an idea to try and raise voltage and amps.

Place a parallel resonant circuit that is tunable before the ground rod.  This can probably be made out of an old radio?  Slowly tune across the spectrum and monitor the voltage.   This will raise voltage in the tank circuit when it is in tune to frequencies coming out of the ground.  You could use a scope or freq counter to see what these freq peaks are.  This will raise voltage.

Then connect the same components as a series resonant circuit before the ground rod.  As you tune across the spectrum, at the same freqs you should see a rise in amps.  This should rise the amps.



Tishatang

Thank you Tishatang,

I do not have a clue HOW to do what you are suggesting but it is exactly in line with my thinking lately.
Could you explain in more detail how I would hook up this radio?
The radio has a wall plug, but somehow I do not think you mean to connect my  probe wires to the plug ends... or maybe you do mean that?

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 26, 2009, 05:11:54 AM
Hello, I have experimented with a multi-meter outside near power poles and connected to a small antenna wire with small rod in the ground to the DMM = small AC-voltage, when I moved to a location way away from power lines = no AC voltage, Which means I am recieving AC and small current from the power lines that go through our yard ! frequency=131.5 HZ

Also I just measured my EB on scope, It also measures exactly 131.5 HZ and also sikes on scope,
both are the same frequency, does that mean my EB is also picking up AC waves from power lines ?
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 26, 2009, 05:15:38 AM

I Want to achieve a decent current from an EB, say about 20-50 mA from one cell, doubt it will be possible though, all these EB's that most of us are experimenting with are just to small a current to do anything with...  so why are we doing it ???
I'm a little discouraged :(
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 26, 2009, 05:16:48 AM
@ Freepow:

Well, we decided a while ago to call these earth energy receivers and, this might apply to your situation.  If you have grid power leaking into the ground, your EER will/should pick it up.  I don't really know more than that but it makes sense to me.  The same freq. for both seems an unlikely coincidence.  But still, if it is leaking grid power, it is still free as in no one else is using it right?

Others can comment on this but these devices will receive a bunch of stuff so, anything is possible.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 26, 2009, 06:59:17 AM
Thanks Bill,  Is it a worth while persuit to harness power from power lines or is it better to stick with EB's?
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on October 26, 2009, 07:18:13 AM
Jeanna and all

Here are some links to basic stuff re resonant circuits.

http://www.vias.org/basicradio/wrapnt_resonant_circuits39.html

Click on series and parallel resonance circuits and also on Q to get an understanding of the subject.

Parallel circuits that have variable tuning have been used since before the crystal radio was invented.  This raises the feeble input by factor equal to the Q of the circuit assuming zero losses.
this means that if the EB is putting out 1 volt and the Q of the circuit is 50, then you now have 50 peak volts at the resonant freq.  It is fairly easy to get a Q of 50 homemade circuits.  Using more sophisticated techniques can get Q of 200 and above.

For Freepow not to get higher readings indicates something is wrong.  These circuits work with only microwatts of power in radio reception and here with an EB, we have milliwatts of power, much more power to work with.  We just have to know the parameters to get it working.  To get no increase in voltage either the circuit was shorted out or a cheap meter was used that to get a reading, more power was sucked out than the circuit was capable of providing.  You must use a high impedance meter or a scope.  If the circuit was constructed wrong, maybe there was no Q to begin with?

We do not have to get into radio theory to try something out.  Find an old radio that has a variable air tuning capacitor and take it out of the radio.  Or, buy one on ebay or someplace.  If you want to work in the high freq range wind about 20 turns or so around the top of the carbon rod of the EB.  Continue to wind a bunch of coils coming out from the rod into the air before you connect the air capacitor to it.  Connect the other end of the cap to the metal rod in the ground.  You now have a parallel resonant circuit setup with variable tuning.  If you want to tap the low freq spectrum, wind the coils around the metal rod and use the carbon rod as the ground point.  Metal core coils will not allow high freq due to losses.

Notice that in the photos of Stubblefield, he has many turns of wire as a helix cable between the phone and other connections.  This is a high Q inductor.  I would guess the Q to be at least 200?  If the EB is a capacitor, then he has a High Q parallel resonant circuit that is tunable by unwinding coils off one end of the helix cable.  He probably has 30 volts available at the earphone if he does not load the system down too much?  Straightening the unwound coils changes the inductance thereby changing the freq of resonance.  I hope you understand what I am saying to get the picture in your mind?

I have somewhere a link to some crystal radio circuits that self power a transistor.  I think this will allow the ability to separate the load from destroying the resonance?  Maybe also to couple two EB's together?  At the very least to raise the input signal out of the noise to get decent scope readings.
Look to next post.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on October 26, 2009, 08:04:54 AM
Here are links to free-power crystal radio circuits.

http://www.crystalradio.net/crystalplans/

Scroll down to #153 Free Power Radios.  Here is page two of three showing the circuits.  File too big to attach.  You will have to download.

http://www.crystalradio.net/crystalplans/xximages/Free2.JPG

Circuit two is said to be optimized for capturing 60 cycle  ambient energy.  Probably it is tuned to a harmonic of 60 hz?  Circuit three is to capture all stray energy.  I am not a circuit techie, so i cannot answer questions of a technical nature on how to hookup or modify anything.  All I can do is give a general idea.

The output is the headphone connections.  This will be our source for the scope or another EB.  Circuit three seems the best because it takes a portion of the output and feeds it back into the beginning giving a positive feedback to increase the power.  It might be possible to increase the feedback so that it goes into self-oscillating mode. 

As an experiment, I would suggest that we try and connect two EB's together by the following method.  Wind the inductor as a bifilar pair.  Maybe you can buy a small spool of two conductor speaker wire or lamp cord wire and slip the spool over the end of the rod in the ground.  An option would be to cut one side of the spool off and slip the coil of wire out of the plastic spool.  Then carefully wind some turns tightly around the rod and then splay out the rest of the coils to resemble the helix cable of stubblefield.  The two sets of rods in the ground will be coupled together by the mutual inductance of the bifilar coil.  One set of rods is parallel resonant and the other rod set is series resonant.  Tune them both to the same freq and see what happens.

Maybe we can raise both volts and amps?  Maybe one EB will prime the earth giving more power out of the second EB?

For those of you who are radio savvy, eliminate the diode that demodulates the signal making the circuit a radio.  This diode is converting the AC into DC and is throwing away half your power.

Hope this helps,
Tishatang
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 26, 2009, 10:18:24 AM
 :) For those who have seen my graph of output power from my antenna+ground a few posts ago,
well usually it wont drop below 4.8 volts AC at night or early morning, well today Monday it was raining and I checked power output tonight(Monday-night-Australian-time) and output was very low at only...
 3.9 volts and .02 mA, why I have no idea, must be something to do with the weather ?
Any comments ???
If it is recieving energy from power lines in our back yard...Then why would it drop that much just because it was a dull wet day ???
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on October 26, 2009, 10:27:16 AM
My output has changed slightly from my EB, on Monday night... at .95 volts DC and rising slowly and
2.53 mA.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on October 26, 2009, 04:53:34 PM
Wow tishatang,
I haven't even visited the links yet, and I want to thank you for that explanation.

My earth battery/Stubblefield combination is almost there, and I think you have pointed the way for me to get the volts/amps higher.
Now, I need to go find out what Q is again!  :D

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: MW383 on October 26, 2009, 06:23:14 PM
My output has changed slightly from my EB, on Monday night... at .95 volts DC and rising slowly and
2.53 mA.

I have a very small EB of similar construction that is showing about .75VDC, 3ma, and 1.5VAC. It is only a 6" piece of copper and zinc nail so it will never set records in energy potential. It is still useful for observational purposes though, especially frequency aspects.

Other news.....
My latest frequency experiments involve running a 25-50KHz inductive field through the ground in parallel to the natural magnetic field vector for my location. This device really intended to generate eddy currents on a dead shorted 'secondary' but it is what I am using none the less. I am not wild about these particular frequencies but it is what I am limited to with my setup. I have a bifilar voltaic coil in the vicinity that I am observing for any changes in output (above what I know it to do statically). This is basically an experiment aimed at talking with the ground, or at least electrical component of it. If anything, it is more sophisticated than some of the other experiments I have running. As far as resonant circuits (mentioned a few posts back), this test setup utilizes them in conjunction with potential high amp draws associated with its design. Again, not optimal deal here but being utilized anyway for experimentation purposes only.

cheers.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cosmicfarmer on October 26, 2009, 10:49:23 PM
Hello, this is just a question I had to ask because I did not know who else would know :-)

I would like to charge a 6volt with a fuji CFL circuit, but instead of the CFL, have the battery being charged. Would the high voltage harm the battery, or desulphate it? like the SSG does? Same procedure, almost... charge an inductor and put the collapse in battery...

Would it matter if I put 6v or 12v SLA over the ~500v fuji output?

Or even a joule theif, if one could be made big enough. Has someone charged a 6v or 12v with a joule theif? If someone knows of any references I could use them.

Thanks. Just trying to design a battery charger powered from ground rod. Has anyone done that yet?
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 26, 2009, 11:14:49 PM
Cosmicfarmer:

Others, that know more than I, can respond but I would think you would have to step that Fuji output down.  Of course, when you do, there will be losses but if you don't, I think it will destroy a battery in quick order. 

Why not charge a series of supercaps and dump them to the battery?  Maybe something like 5 supercaps (650 farad) at 2.7 volts each=13.5 volts.  I believe this would be safer and very doable.  I can charge a 9 volt battery from my EER/supercap/Bedini motor set-up.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 27, 2009, 06:14:15 AM
@ freepow,

Thanks Bill,  Is it a worth while persuit to harness power from power lines or is it better to stick with EB's?

 ;D  well, there is no law saying we carnt harness stray electrical energy, after all, if it has 50Hz or 60Hz, it is all paied for as far as I can see, so the tric is to filter out those frequencies with a notch filter so you ban them from the rest of the system, so they carnt come back and screem you steeeeeling power.

OK, now I have a few more pages to read up before I get to the last post.

@jeanna and frepow,

I think tishatang means this.
Pull a multi gang capacitor  (tuner) out of a old radio, tube or valve type, then make up a tank circuit like we did on the joule thief forum.
There is in this case 2 capacitors at play here, a fixed value cap and a variable capacitor, it has aluminium plates, one set is fixed to chassis/earth, the other is variable and dissappears in or out between the plates by a tuneing knob.

The output goes to a sensitive volt meter or galvo meter.

Is this right tashtang? does my drawing come close?
dont worry jeanna, I dont know 4 sure lol. ::)
 

jim
 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 27, 2009, 07:50:52 AM
@mw383

I have a very small EB of similar construction that is showing about .75VDC, 3ma, and 1.5VAC. It is only a 6" piece of copper and zinc nail so it will never set records in energy potential. It is still useful for observational purposes though, especially frequency aspects.

Other news.....
My latest frequency experiments involve running a 25-50KHz inductive field through the ground in parallel to the natural magnetic field vector for my location. This device really intended to generate eddy currents on a dead shorted 'secondary' but it is what I am using none the less. I am not wild about these particular frequencies but it is what I am limited to with my setup. I have a bifilar voltaic coil in the vicinity that I am observing for any changes in output (above what I know it to do statically). This is basically an experiment aimed at talking with the ground, or at least electrical component of it. If anything, it is more sophisticated than some of the other experiments I have running. As far as resonant circuits (mentioned a few posts back), this test setup utilizes them in conjunction with potential high amp draws associated with its design. Again, not optimal deal here but being utilized anyway for experimentation purposes only.

cheers.

About the dead shorted secondary, put a 3AG glass fuse as the connection short.
If this fuse blows (upon successful experiment) it will give you a close approximation of the juice you got out of it. Well you might be away from the experiment. ;)

In other words when you get your experiment to resonate (tuned) with telleric waves, at a certain point the fuse OCs and you have the sweet spot" where the energy is.

BTW following jpg is for mw383, I have a few more as well lol. :D

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 27, 2009, 08:08:02 AM
@ Cosmicfarmer,

Bill and Jeanna know the most of fuji stuff from the Joule Thief forum.

If you delve into the beginning areas of that forum, its where this work was done.

Regarding the output power, the Fuji crt packs a wallop, so be careful what you touch, that said, put the output through a hi/lo turns transformer, rectify for DC and feed them pulses into the nicad.

As Bill says, be careful or you might fry the nicad.
I blown a few nicads up, bits of the inturnals fly apart with hyper speed and they sure made my ears ring    :o   when it happened, dont expect to answer the phone cause you wont hear anything  ;D

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on October 27, 2009, 09:43:13 AM
@Electrime
Your drawing is half right.  Wished I knew about these drawing programs.  Getting too old to learn.  Anyway, in place of the fixed capacitor replace it with the inductor.  The inductor and the variable capacitor are in parallel between the aerial and ground.  The leads of the voltmeter are connected to the aerial and the ground rod.  You show it in series as if it were an amp meter.  The meter connections are correct if you were measuring amps with an amp meter using a series resonant circuit.  To make it series, connect the inductor to the ground rod, the other end to the var cap then to the amp meter then to the aerial.  If you are not using an aerial, then replace the aerial with the other rod in the ground.  Place a load like an led in series, and if we are lucky, it will light when we will hit a resonant freq as we slowly scan the freq band.   We change our freq band by making bigger or smaller inductors.  This is because variable air caps are limited in their range.  You could put another cap in series with the variable cap to change freq bands, but this complicates the basic simple circuit.  It is earsier to change the inductor size.  In radio, they use multi-tapped inductors to switch bands.

I am suspecting that the earth battery of stubblefield is acting as an active plate of a capacitor.  This is because in photos he is using very  long helix wound cables.  They do not have to be that long with so many turns.  The average person will think this is done for flexibility like a spiral corded telephone receiver to the base.  Try to picture his EB as a capacitor.  It is an active plate and the nearby ground rod is the other plate of the capacitor. His EB side is unbalancing the earth currents compared the the nearby ground plate of the earth capacitor.  The long  helix high Q inductor is connected to the EB and the nearby ground plate.  This is now a parallel resonant circuit.  Through trial and error, Stubblefield found a resonant freq to tap power from the earth.  He made the inductor long enough to be close to the resonant freq generated by the capacitance of the EB.  He fine tuned it by unwinding extra coils of the long helix inductor.  This is all speculation on my part by reasonable by observation of the photos.  Most have looked at his EB as an inductor/transformer.  But all componants have a capacitor part to them.  The whole EB can be looked at as part inductor and part capacitor.  I think the capacitor part has been ignored.  But the capacitor part makes sense if it is part of a resonant circuit.  The long inductor helix cable can form either a parallel or series resonant circuit depending on how it is connected to the capacitor part of the EB.

Stubblefield I believe used more than one ground rod?  Been a long time since I read about him.  Maybe between the EB and one ground rod the inductor helix cable was connected parallel to raise voltage, and between the EB and another ground rod the helix cable was connected in series to raise amps.  Maybe his secret was to connect them together somehow to generate his power?  Maybe one way to connect them together is with a bilar inductor as I mentioned in my last post.  To do this you need at least three ground rods.  Maybe one can be a common ground instead of two sets of two?

If we have existing ground rods with one volt and .oo2 amps available.  Then with a Q of 50, we have available 50 volts and .100 amps or 5 watts of power if we can combine the two setups.  We should be able to light a lot of led's with this 24/7.

The only instruments available to stubblefield in his day would be a compass and a galvanometer.  These would give him a sense of relative power.  As he experimented he would find the best combination of coil length to capacitor value to obtain the resonant freq of the earth currents.  A tuned resonant circuit only lets that freq in and amplifies it.  We have the advantage of freq counters and scopes.  From the observed data logging of this thread, we can design our components to end up with the best  freqs to extract power.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 27, 2009, 10:31:46 AM
@tishatang,

I hear you, no problems, getting to learn a CAD program is a big ask.
What I do is grab a sheet of paper, draw the circuit (or cartoon) then take my mobile phone and photograph it.
I plug the phone into the USB port, via its cable, use the phone program to save it to the PC.
I save the image to my hard drive, called mob ph photos, I go and look in the directory, check it out first before adding it as an attatchment when I click on the Browse button and select the jpg I want to post.

This I find is the easiest way to do things here.

I do know how to use a CAD program called TinyCAD which is a freebie, buut it takes me a fair while to use and the drawing over fills the screen, so I use a pencil and paper instead.

In regards to your post about inductors, I went and took a looksee at the web site address you posted, and saw my mistake, never mind it got me to thinking and I agree with you.

If there is energy flowing through the earth at say 7 cycles per second, then we need to setup a circuit that can sence each cycle and at the top of the cycle, hook into this energy as it passes the machinery designed to pick it up.

Your mention of coils in the whole setup, leading from each electrical point I had missed, you are right, the whole stubblefield setups are all interconnected this way, so it looks like I need to go and do a big rethink on all his stuff.

jim 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cosmicfarmer on October 27, 2009, 06:27:57 PM
I like Bill's idea with the caps. Trying to do 6v so I'll use 3, the only 3 that I have! Bwahaha! Brilliant! So, to charge them best, use fast switching diodes and use ground to cap? or should I have something else along side it, like a LED? 

I apologize for being so dumb. Last time I tried this I did an AV plug to LED and touched the AV plug to a copper pipe in the ground and the led turned on. Very dim.... had to be night time and you staring at the filament...

Also, how should I tune my earth battery? have a volt meter with me and raise or lower the poles?

That blown fuse trick sounds REALLY COOL.... Theres gotta be a standard good way for an idiot to tune a ground battery and something like that blowing up of a fuse when your in range sounds like a good example! However I am not currently using an active component with the ground.

I'm trying to find the magnetic angle of where I live, or if any lines are nearby.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 27, 2009, 07:06:47 PM
Cosmicfarmer:

Here is a link to figure out your magnetic alignments for your area:

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/IGRFWMM.jsp

(Just in case you didn't have it already)  Just type in your zip code and it is easy.

Also, no one here was more dumb (ignorant) than me when I was starting out on this forum so don't apologize.  We are all in this together.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 28, 2009, 04:18:09 AM
@cosmicfarmer,

I like Bill's idea with the caps. Trying to do 6v so I'll use 3, the only 3 that I have! Bwahaha! Brilliant! So, to charge them best, use fast switching diodes and use ground to cap? or should I have something else along side it, like a LED? 

I apologize for being so dumb. Last time I tried this I did an AV plug to LED and touched the AV plug to a copper pipe in the ground and the led turned on. Very dim.... had to be night time and you staring at the filament...

Also, how should I tune my earth battery? have a volt meter with me and raise or lower the poles?

That blown fuse trick sounds REALLY COOL.... Theres gotta be a standard good way for an idiot to tune a ground battery and something like that blowing up of a fuse when your in range sounds like a good example! However I am not currently using an active component with the ground.

I'm trying to find the magnetic angle of where I live, or if any lines are nearby.

Thanks!

yes, I was sitting here thinking how would stubblefield know when he had his research coils in tune working, since he was on his own, I came up with two possibilities.
First was to put a light globe in the circuit, it would light up, but if a coil worked tooooooo well, the bulb would blow, a wast.
Second was, what could he have used to save a bulb? easy, a single strand of wire, either end twisted around 2 ends.
So the fuse came out on top, cheep and easy to do, no problems to replace a blown bit of wire, cool.
 
About being dumb, no, you aint dumb, just dont know stuff you would know tomorrow, except you wish you knew it today he he.

Magnetic angle, best person I know who does know about these things is Bill (Pirate), PM him, he is on the money with it.

I went outside about an hour ago and dragged out my biggish through bolts, found their corresponding nuts and washers, and cleaned up my work bench, gosh, supprising how "good stuff" takes up bench space, anyone eles have that trouble here or is it only me.
 
jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on October 28, 2009, 08:03:15 AM
electricme
Thanks for the tip on taking photo of drawing.  Never thought of that and it's doable for me.
Sometimes we have to look at things sideways.  What's happening may not be what is obvious.  One problem is our mind is designed to make things complicated.  Life was simple in the days of stubblefield.

Here are some important related links that are chapters from book called "lost science" by vassilatos.  A copy of this book is very expensive.  I hear it is being reprinted again?  Download and save these two chapters.

http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/nathan-s.htm

http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/grradio.htm

Sorry if these have been posted before.  I am concerned about documenting valuable research as things have a habit of disappearing.  I feel people are taking youtube for granted that it will always be there to save your experiments.  I am in China now and cannot access youtube.  I suggest backing up important videos into your own computer.  If China can turn off youtube, it can happen where you live.  My connection is too slow to try and go around the China Firewall using special programs that cost money.

I don't know if it is just my computer, but this site format has changed in the last few days.  No longer does it list posts by line item and date.  I have to hit show unread posts which is incomplete and does not show all history of posts.

I am going to give you another thing to think about.  Stubblefield's EB may also be an orgone accumulator.  This was invented by Wilhelm Reich.  It consists of box whose sides are composed of alternating layers of metal and natural insulation.  The EB consists of layers of metal coils and layers of cotton or silk? insulation.  Orgone seems to have the ability to tap into the energy of implosion (negative electricity) instead of explosion energy which produces heat and losses.  NS was before Reich.  Orgone is a word invented by Reich.  Here is pdf attachment of orgone accumulator to show layering.



It is thought by some that the Joe Cell used on cars accumulates orgone which charges the nearby aether field to accomplish this transfer of energy.  Once charged, a car with a Joe Cell can run with no fuel.  The engine runs cold and uses no fuel, probably on implosion of the water vapor ala Keely.
Orgone gives off a light blue color and may explain why the fields around stubblefields house seemed to glow and give off light.  I will also help explain the heating apparatus in his house where he died.
Modern researchers have built devices to generate orgone energy using fibreglass resin and powdered metal.  They call such a mixture organite.  As an experiment, you could insulate the coils in an EB with fibreglass resin instead of silk or cottan as in stubblefields day.

tishatang
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 28, 2009, 02:28:26 PM
@tishatang,

I want to thank you for the web addresses you posted, I have been to them, as with Nathan Stubblefield, he was a man beyond his time, because of this people regarded him as someone to be avoided, except for those who shared his views.

It would be interresting if "other" lost Nathan Stubblefield papers were to be discovered, even photographs.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on October 29, 2009, 05:34:38 AM
It has been good for me to go back and review these chapters on stubblefield.  It has been a few years.  I am looking at him with fresh eyes and I think speculate on what is happening with his EB.  Look to my later posts. 

Meanwhile here is the Snow patent for EB to increase voltage as an attachment.  This was one of many references at the end of the chapter.  To verify that it works, you can take apart an old car engine starter motor for its brushes.  Or maybe the local parts store stocks brushes.  For sure a motor rebuilder will have brushes cheap.  Get the biggest ones you can find.  Usually, they are not expensive.  They are carbon and already have braided copper wire leads attached to them.  Two brushes along with two small metal rods will see if the voltage doubles?  These small brushes are just to verify the patent.  To get the current to light leds will probably take bigger carbon and metal rods.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on October 29, 2009, 06:36:21 AM
electricme
Your tip on images worked great.  Now if I could only draw.  I'm getting old and shakey.

I will try and explain things as we go because I am going to speculate on the evolution of the Stubblefield EB.  You will have to understand these basic concepts so that when we get to the final stage, you will know what's going on.  Here we have the two basic resonant circuits.  One parallel and one series connected.  In addition they are tunable because of the variable air capacitor.  You can buy on ebay nice ones occasionally that have a gear reduction knob for tuning.  This gives finer control.

Things to keep in mind:  Voltage and current are 180 degrees out of phase in resonant circuits.
When the voltage hits maximum, the current goes to zero in the parallel mode.  When the amps goes max the voltage is min in the series mode.  This is why there is no power amplification.  As voltage goes up the amps go lower.

In parallel mode, you will have to place the light bulb between the parallel circuit and the antennae.  You do not want to place your load inside the circuit because the resistance will affect the Q.  Remember the higher the Q, the higher the voltage.  When at resonance, the bulb will not light because there is no current flow.  We will have to detune the circuit to get some current to light the bulb.  This is assuming the power is available without overloading the resonant circuit.  A parallel resonant circuit is also referred to as a tank circuit.

In series mode, the bulb is also placed next to the antennae in series with everything else.  At resonance, the bulb will not light, because even though we have plenty of current flowing, we have no voltage.  Again, we have to detune slightly to get enough voltage to light the bulb.  This assumes the circuit is not overloaded by the bulb to kill resonance.

In series mode, we have to place a safety resistor and fuse to limit current from surges and runaway conditions.  The resistor should not be necessary in the parallel circuit because at resonance, the resistance of the circuit in infinite and no current can flow.  A resistor and fuse could be placed here
in a parallel circuit as a safety in case a component failed.  Use a carbon resistor either fixed or variable.  A variable resistor here might be useful for tuning in either mode.


Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Zoky on October 29, 2009, 08:00:32 AM
Hello to all...
I reading and practice all about earth battery/energy and on end i can see one think its only electrochemical cell.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandro_Volta
read about first battery :-)

If you use only Cu and Zn and put in the ground you will have some current but its realy low current. You can improve that if use electrolyte and use big catode/anode, Michael Emme create patent 495,582 about that.

I think we all need to practice more about wireless transmition energy with magnifier (Nikola Tesla) there is defintly some free energy for pick up :-).
Becouse if you create transmition tower for transmite energy you will have in same time reciver energy, and than you can use skil how to use that energy for use.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on October 29, 2009, 08:07:45 AM
As we read about stubblefield from the above linked chapter, we learn he is scientific and keeps on the latest stuff.  Earth batteries are in vogue and he no doubt made friends with the telegraph installers and how they searched for ground plates.  He probably learned to dowse from them although dowsing was more popular in his day than now.  Anyway, he knew how to find the locations for ground rods.  At some point I speculate he decided to look at the earth as a capacitor.  The ground rods would become plates of the earth capacitor.  As currents moved through the earth, they would strike one plate and shortly after strike the other plate.  This phase difference would set alternating voltages on the plates based on freq and the wave length of the currents.

Using the long helix inductors he would form resonant circuits with the ground plates in his quest for a better way to tap the energy.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 29, 2009, 09:10:15 AM
@tishatang,

electricme
Your tip on images worked great.  Now if I could only draw.  I'm getting old and shakey.

You are more than welcome, it's easy isn't it  ;) the circuit looks great with my poor old eyes, you are a good teacher, because the way you spell it out makes it easy to understand, well so far anyway lol.

I have a tuning capacitor somewhere, here it is, just found it, I stripped a old radio down to the bare bones.
Will this do or is it too small, there is an adjustable mica capacitor as well, mabe we could use it for fine tuning.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on October 29, 2009, 09:53:11 AM
@Jim
Your image of var cap did not come thru for me.  But, it's OK.  Any one will do for experiments.  Actually , they don't vary that much from radio to radio.  It mostly depends on the radio you took it from.  If it is a standard broadcast AM radio, it will be fine.  It will have higher capacity than FM or short wave radio because it tunes to a lower freq.  As you go lower in freq, the physical size of the components increases.  If you get no response on your meter, try a bigger or smaller inductor.  I don't think var air caps were invented yet in stubblefields time.  So, his only option to change freq was to vary the inductance by peeling off extra layers of the long helix coils and varying the distance between the ground plates.  Or, of course building bigger plates to bury.

@Zoky
If you download and read the chapter on Stubblefield I linked to, you will see he was doing great things before Tesla built his magnifying transmitter.  If you are interested in Tesla, you can do a search on Tesla and find many threads on this forum to join in their discussion.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on October 29, 2009, 10:39:45 AM
Evolution of Stubblefield EB cont'd based on speculations and observations

After experimenting for while, NS learned the best combination of inductors in combination with earth capacitors to get the best freqs.  In other words, the galvanometer would swing the furthest and his compass would detect relative strength of the current as he measured parallel and series resonant circuits.  These are also called resonant LC circuits.  L symbol for inductance and C symbol for capacitance.  Also to note that in the early days a capacitor was called a condenser.  If you are reading early patents or books a condenser is a capacitor and an intensifier is a transformer.

He came to realize that there was no power gain from a single resonant circuit by itself.  If it were a parallel LC circuit, he got volts but no amps.  If it was a series res LC circuit, he got amps but no volts.  Plus the fact to get any power at all, he had to deturne the circuits, somewhat further reducing the highest readings with no load.  There had to be a way to combine them to get volts and amps together.  He started winding the inductor coils together in a single bifilar coil.  Further experiments revealed that by using one coil of iron, he got better results.  Probably because of magnetic linking or maybe the higher resistance of iron caused a phase delay bringing it inline with the phase delay of the earth currents as they traveled from plate to plate in the ground?

We end up something like this:  As I look at the drawing I think the iron wire should go to the parallel circuit because the higher volts go through the higher resistance and there is little current to carry.  The series circuit needs the bigger copper wire to carry the current.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on October 29, 2009, 10:52:59 AM
Stubblefield cont'd

The bifilar coil helped.  But no way did it do what he wanted.  He finally realized if he wound a collector coil around the bifilar coil, it would sum all the high voltages and the high amps together.  So, we end up with the collector coil as supplying the power to the load.  This explains the three coils in his EB patent and where they are connected.  Remember, iron wire to parallel circuit.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on October 29, 2009, 11:16:39 AM
Stubblefield cont'd

All these experiments have the  coils on the surface.  The only things in the ground were his ground rods (plates).  NS had one more refinement to try before he built this config as an earth battery.  He got the idea to prime the config with a vibrating relay.  Actually, he may have thought of this after he built the EB and buried it in the ground?  He found that by priming  the pump, so to speak, it increased the output.  Probably because the collector coil was also a resonant circuit and the relay was vibrating at the resonant freq of the output coil?  The arm of the relay (make or break) could be a rod with a small weight that could slide a up and down.  This would give him the ability to fine tune the pulses of the relay to the res freq of the collector coil.  I think he would have worked this all out prior to burying it into the ground.  Stay tuned for the rest of the story.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Zoky on October 29, 2009, 02:55:44 PM
@tishatang

Dude they all use ground (earth) becouse ground have super conductivity and you can use that on all planet earth. Basicly you always have one polarity (-) ready for use and second like i first say. One more think you can use earth for transmition too that Stubblefield prove and Tesla talking about that more times.
I read everything about Tesla here but find very low text and links about that ..people scared to    
experiment with tehnology what tesla working but im pretty sure it is way to clear free energy :-).
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: MW383 on October 29, 2009, 07:33:31 PM
Tishatang,

Very interesting posts regarding resonant circuits. I made a few scratchings on you latest picture. Can you comment? I am still coming up to speed with this subject. Thank you.

,MW383
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on October 30, 2009, 06:35:36 AM
@MW383
I am glad you are interested in this.  Your added cap does not contribute anything.  Notice that you are bridging two plates that are both negative.  Both plates will have the same potential.  Caps are added to isolate separate circuits with different DC potential.  AC will pass thru a cap depending on its size and freq you are trying to pass thru.

Since the two bottom plates are at the same potential, you could tie them together and use only three ground plates.  Circuit shown below.  The var air caps are shown to show how to connect to your plates to experiment with series and parallel resonance with your ground plates.  They would not be there in Stubblefield's time.  Also note that the cap in the series plate side will block any DC component of the earth energy.  The cap shown in the series output circuit is there to obtain resonance of the collector coil.  NS did use large caps.  Here is quote of chapter:

"A second series of experiments reveal the development of stacked capacitors. Photographs reveal two large capacitor stacks, presumably for inductive transmission purposes. Some researchers induced ground oscillations of electrical current, while absorbing each "fly back" into large capacitors. This system evidenced the "hydraulic" model of electricity, popular during the latter Victorian Epoch."
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 30, 2009, 08:30:19 AM
@all

I have been having a prob with my computer the last two days.
I have a desktop, but cannot open any programs except for 1 antivirus (which is scanning my PC at the moment) and defrag, I believe it is a DOS attack, (Denial Of Services).

I was lucky yesterday, I managed to get it running and thought I had fixed the problem, obviously I hadent.
I had to get to another PC 50 klm away to get some help for it and took the opertunity to download and print some of my PMs and forum pages, so I can keep abrest of whats hapenning here.
but I will be off air until my home PC is OK.
So unless I can get it back on air, I will be off air so to speak for at least 1 week, groan.

I was hopeing to put an effort into my stubblefield winding maching today, but unforseen events took me a different parth.
 
@tishatang,
I took a look at my post of the tuner capacitor I made, it comes up here OK on this PC.
Must be something at your end, the image is a standard .JPG and should show up for you.

A bit of feedback for you, your pencil crt drawings look lovely here, well done.

All this you are presenting is making sence, well done sir.

@mw383,
Thanks for the PMs, I will answer them when I get the DOS off my PC.

OK one more printout to go and I have to head off home.

Oh yes, I had run out of welding electrodes, got some more today in town, man, 2.5mm electrodes differ in price per packet, anywhere from $36.00 - $85 a packet, some real greed at work.

Hooroo all
jim

Bill, (Pirate) I will get on the blower to you, usual time.

 


Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on October 30, 2009, 01:52:57 PM
From what Ive read old coat hangers are soft iron. You could bundle those. 
You could also try a microwave oven transformer core which is high silicon magnetic steel.  It seems finding the right location for an NS coil is the hardest part.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: MW383 on October 30, 2009, 06:27:17 PM
Tishatang,

I have redrawn your latest sketch. Is this right? Again this is a most interesting subject.

I have completed design interpretations for the 'battery' primary itself (electrochemical, electromagnetic, physical construction aspects) Bottom line is : This is a very elegant system that effectively integrates into a simple package, various systems of quite different nature. I am very impressed. I make a living at working outside the box but this design is a real dandy.

I have a ways to go in my understanding of the things you are discussing. I have obtained text books and am engaging my brain to learn these things. Since I am more mechanical and very lightly chemical, I am really starting at the beginning electrically. I'll get it eventually.

Regards,

MW383

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 31, 2009, 12:00:18 AM
@IotaUodi,

From what Ive read old coat hangers are soft iron. You could bundle those. 
You could also try a microwave oven transformer core which is high silicon magnetic steel.  It seems finding the right location for an NS coil is the hardest part.
,

If someone was to try soft iron coathangers it may work also, personally I would try getting even smaller iron wire, the more strands you could bundle tightly together the better, I suggest this if you need a big iron bolt and carnt get one. Perhaps mig welding wire cut to whatever length, feed each strand into a PVC tube to act as a mold to keep it together, then draw out all the strands and tape them up to keep them all together would be one way to make a long iron bar.
Its just a suggestion, dont even know if this would work.

Jeanna has made a stubblefield cell using several strands of iron, mabe she could shed some light on her technique.

Im back home, plowed through my PC, got rid of some antivirus I had running and its going faster now, I didnt turn it off last night so still do not know if the problem is fixed, we will see.

I have a PM to answer so I will fix that up shortly, then will make a start on my stubblefield winding machine in the shed.
I went mad, yesterday, got stuck into cutting up my shiny exercise machine lol.
 
1633 = close up of support post with center bearing
1639 = Pully reduction gearing, dont have motor v belt pully to show, gota find it.
1638 = Cross arms, have to remove peddal pusher power attatchments
1640 = square taper shaft, one on either end

I intend to attatch a socket the size of the nut on the bolt end, makes for easy application and transfer of turning force to bolt shaft when the maching runs.

The speed will be a PWM controler which I will fitt a forward and reverse switch to.
I will probably fit a ON OFF peddal switch for this purpose as I will need both hands to guide the wire as it is running. ;D

More to come, lets see how this sends off to overunity
 
jim   
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 31, 2009, 01:58:27 AM
@all,

I have missgiveings to making my above suggestion.  :-\ :P
Bundling many strands of iron wire together, as the center iron, to make a stubblefield coil.

I have been thinking about this since I posted the above, and have decided to debunk my own recomendation, hmmmm you say.

My reasons for this are a genuine concern about the stability of the whole stubblefield coil assembly, during its construction phase.

Many strands of iron wire will also allow some "flex" between the iron strands, it could not be avoided, unless there was some process where it could be overcome in some manner then mabe it could be utilised later on. (I'm thing about a workaround for this).

What would occur is the flex of the iron strands as one turns the bifilar wire (Copper and Iron) over the bundled iron strands, we need to keep all the turns neat and tidy in this critical process, failing to do so will allow previous turns to drop downwards between previous turns, we dont need this.
As the bifilar wires are placed onto the former, the stresses will build, the flex becomes worse gradually until the geometery of the coil would suffer.

So I recomend no one tries the many strands of iron wire procedure, until we know more about it.

jim 

@Bill
Here is a circuit I drew up for you to have a play around with, sometimes we need to reduce a voltage to match the input voltage of a device, it could be anything. Utilising a LM317 adjustable voltage regulator and a handful of caps, and 1 resisror and a variable resistor we can achieve this.

This item can drive a low current device, even recharge a set of ni-cad cells, there is built in current protection on the LM317 adjustable regulator.

How it works,
up to 30 volts can be fed into the circuit, the caps filter out any ripples that might cause a problem to the item being used with it, the regulator (LM317) does not allow any higher voltage to pass, unless the "5 K ohm pot" is set to allow it to appear on the output leg of the IC.
If you need, say for instance, 3.7 volts on the output, 560ohms or slightly higher would do. Soldering that resistor in circuit "crow bars" the output to that voltage, no matter how high the voltage you feed into it.
Put a heat sink on the LM317 to keep heat to a safe level, as the excess voltage has to be sent somewhere, so it is designed to get red of the waist as heat.

1670 = main circuit, plenty of these on the internet.
1666 = where I got this one from

I have a habbit of buying heeps of electronic KITTs from JAYCAR electronics, I have about 10 waiting to put together. ;)

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on October 31, 2009, 02:17:43 AM
Hi Jim,

Quote
So I recommend no one tries the many strands of iron wire procedure, until we know more about it.

umm.. but the way we find out is to try it out, isn't it?  ;)

In the groups of folks making bedini motors, there is a method to stabilize the clump of sticks.
Most use some epoxy.
Once, I used a drinking straw, but that is a little small in diameter, however it worked really well. It gave me the advantage that I could remove the core from the inside of the coil.

Pirate has described pretty thoroughly how he epoxied his nails into a stable core for his bedini.

I think that description is in the bedini no rotor thread from jonnydavro.

Have fun with your bicycle... don't pedal too fast! ;D

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: MW383 on October 31, 2009, 02:20:43 AM
Electrime,

I also have misgivings on my own bundled wire approach. I was literally using wire from a coil that I straightened out. I was able to get it bundled via simple fixturing but I do not have a clean round/straight geometry thus winding of primary too sloppy. Perhaps if I used proper rod stock this would have been better. The chap wanting to use coat hangers is probably a better way to cheaply bundle. One could just cut the long-straight lower horizontal piece of the hanger and use a bunch of them. Just do not attempt what I did. Jeanna has more proper rods and I would think this would work ok too.

I have after very careful consideration decided to stay crude and more in line with a period replica of the construction. I am rebuilding using the old parts I described in previous posts. I think with some basic construction principles this thing will still function so long as the ground mystery aspects are figured out. I remain very incouraged by what Tishatang presents.

Regards,

MW383
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on October 31, 2009, 02:38:46 AM
... but I do not have a clean round/straight geometry thus winding of primary too sloppy. Perhaps if I used proper rod stock this would have been better. ...

I have after very careful consideration decided to stay crude and more in line with a period replica of the construction. ...
.... I remain very incouraged by what Tishatang presents.

I am also encouraged by what tishatsang has said.

I took a welding class (adult ed) for 2 semesters.
There was a propane forge and I made a forged hook set for a barn door kind of thing.
That metal no longer holds any magnetic polarization.
I had a permanent magnet stuck onto one end of part of it and it never remembered its polarity. It has become remarkably soft.

In Prof Lewin's wonderful physics class, he explains about the process of heating and hitting iron to remove its magnetic polarity.

The pity is that even tho I was doing stubblefield coils at the time of that class, I never got a piece of plain round iron to stick into the fire...

Every once in a while you can find a wrought iron shop.
They would have a piece of round iron that they could heat and hit and sell you. I am sure it would be very cheap, too.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 31, 2009, 02:51:36 AM
@all,
I have decided to really get into posting, as I simply dont know if my computer fix will last, lets hope it wont muck up.

God has given me an ability to see in my mind mechanical objects which I want to make, it's uncany this, I can see down to quite small details sometimes. I don't actually see a vision of the item, but I can visualise it without any effort.
 
I have had my thinking cap on for a while now, I spoke to Bill about the below item this morning, it's something I have been toying around with for a couple of years now, and relates directly to making Stubbifield Coils.

This is a wire winding machine, it would be quite simple to make and so I post the drawing here for anyone to have a go with it.

Many years ago, when the insulation was in its infantity, wire makers had to wind a silk or cotton thread over the bare wires so they would not short out, this was before TRS (Tough Rubber Sheathing) which was superceeded by more and better insulation that industry required. These days you can get heat insulated wires, for all purposes and situations.

So how does one wind literally miles of cotton onto a single strand of copper or iron wire?

Actually it is quite simple to do, but you need to make a jig with a revolving disk with a hollow center mounted on a hollow shaft. The hard bit is getting the wire feed and the cotton reels spinning physically around the wire as it is drawn through the machine. Both must be in sinc so there is an even coverage of cotton layed down, as the wire is drawn through the center of this jig assembly.
To do this, we can use 2 PWM circuits, each is setup initally, independently adjusting each drive motors RPM until you see a very even thin layer of cotton being applied over the wire as it is drawn through the shaft center.

You will need to set this up on a table, with a feed spool, fitted with a constant slip/friction brake tensioner.
The other end the wire is wound onto a blank spool, a DC motor is fitted to this side of the works.

The machine is setup with an bare spool of copper or iron wire, the free end is threaded into the hollow shaft which revolvs and attatched to the empty spool.

Next you slip on 5 spools of "overlocker" cotton thread.

Draw the thread to the side of the bare wire and clamp the cotton ends some way so they don't slip around the wire.

Start both motors together, the wire is drawn slowly through the machine, the rotating 5 bobbins , now must spin vertically around the outside of the wire as it is being drawn through the jig assembly.

As it starts off, you will see several gaps between the cotton as it is applied, to close the gaps, just increase the speed of the cotton reels, if this is going too fast, just slow down the wire as it is drawn through the jig.
Either adjustment will work OK.

Keep an eye out for creepage, this will show up as rises on the cotton being applied, or as gaps where the cotton has not been layed on the wire fast enough, what we need is an an even layer applied to the wire, no hi bits or exposed bits.

OK there is another thing to watch out for, diferent wire thicknesses.
Because of the difference of wire circumferences, each application will need to be setup for that particular size wire, take note of the pot position settings, write them down after doing some test runs, this will give you enough data to be able to re-setup your winding jig quite quickly.


Have I ever seen this working? NO, only in my mind, but it gives us all a method to wind our own cotton insulation on our own iron or bare copper wires.

Here are my drawings below
jim   

1657 = whole drawing of machine
1658 = overlocker cotton spools
1659 = Cotton spool plate holder seen placed flat, with 5 pegs
           the spools are sliped onto the pegs
1660 = Plan view of spool plate as seen
1661 = Side view (elevation) of jig and drive assembly
1662 = Takeup of cotton covered wire left side of jig
1663 = Take OFF reel of bare wire, not insulated on a spool

A resistance drag could be made of two flat sheets of wood with a spring and butterfly tensioner arrangement to put some slight tension on the bare drawn wire, or a drum brake made.
   
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: MW383 on October 31, 2009, 03:03:37 AM
Bill,

You are my choice for winding mechanisation for when we have everything figured out and need to mass produce! I was once in my family CNC machining business and was the turning center guru (CNC lathes). So I tend to see things in feeds and speeds. Assuming a given rpm, a corresponding and optimal feed rate is applied. I see your system accomplishing this.

I like it!

, MW383
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on October 31, 2009, 04:03:58 AM
@MW383
Thanks for cleaning up my drawing.  I realized late last night that I made a mistake and the parallel circuit won't work without the addition of blocking diodes.  It will work like it is for an antennae and ground as shown.  I am used to thinking radio.  What we need to do is put a diode on the positive rod pointing towards the tank circuit.  When can also put a diode on the negative rod pointing towards the tank circuit.  This will isolate the circuit so it can freewheel and do its thing.  Without the diode, any high voltage would simply bleed off into ground which is at a low potential.  This will let currents in but not out. 

@electric me
I get your photo now.  I was missing some java plug-in or something.  Your cotton winding machine looks like a miniature version of the big cable winding machines they use to wind the long support cables for suspension bridges.

@all
Here are some helpful hints re construction of the   EB.  Your best friend will be the local building supply, or maybe a local building construction company.  For the core, you want large J bolts they use to put into concrete forms.  They are in the form of large J.  They come from about 8 inches in length to maybe 16 inches in length.  They are black iron, no plating, a thin coat of oil to prevent rusting.  You should be able to get them up to at least 5/8 in diameter.  They have a long thread on one end and the nuts and washer for them should be laying in a bin next to them.  They might have some in the shape of an L, saving the need to hacksaw off the little part of the J, to make it an L shape.  The L with a washer on one end, and a washer and nut on the other end and you have your core.  May not be the most mild of iron?  Test it with a steel file.  You can file a mark easy on mild iron.  Put file marks on various pieces of old metal around your shop and get the feel for relative hardness.  When you go to the bldg supply, make a small mark on the L bolt to judge its relative hardness.  If it seems hard, you can heat it to red with an acetylene torch in the hopes it will make it softer.  This will also remove any residual magnetism from the mfg process of making the bolts.

In the same dept there will be small rolls of very soft iron wire.  This is used for tying rebar together.  Ask some one where the rebar tying wire is.  This is the perfect wire for making the iron coil.

It is important to have wood ends and natural insulation between the bolt core and the first winding, and between every layer of coils.  You can use fiberglass cloth and resin if want.  I will explain all of this more thoroughly later.  I believe serendipity played a role with Stubblefield, the patent office and his investors to end up with what he did. 

If you could find a small cardboard tube that your core bolt can slide into, would help for experiments but not necessary.  That way, after assembly of the coils, you can slide the bolt in partway.  This will change the inductance value of the coils, thereby giving you the ability to tune to a wide band of frequencies.

Hope all this helps.
tishatang
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on October 31, 2009, 03:30:25 PM
@all,

A little off topic, but I think I should present a link to some disturbing tidings.
I just received this email, which is an excellent source of information.

If people in America are alone in thinking their gov will act in a traitorous way, don't worry, our very own Australian gov is also heading down the same sorry path, click on this link to read for yourselves, how we are all going to be in this mess together.
Sinage day is in December this year folks

http://www.moriah.com.au/textarchive/copenhagen-2009.htm

I think there might be about 45 days of freedom as we all know it before the poison pen pushers sign away our freedoms.
They might try and control us, but they carnt control our spirit


jim

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 01, 2009, 06:59:48 AM
@all,

I have missgiveings to making my above suggestion.  :-\ :P
Bundling many strands of iron wire together, as the center iron, to make a stubblefield coil.

I have been thinking about this since I posted the above, and have decided to debunk my own recomendation, hmmmm you say.

My reasons for this are a genuine concern about the stability of the whole stubblefield coil assembly, during its construction phase.

Many strands of iron wire will also allow some "flex" between the iron strands, it could not be avoided, unless there was some process where it could be overcome in some manner then mabe it could be utilised later on. (I'm thing about a workaround for this).

What would occur is the flex of the iron strands as one turns the bifilar wire (Copper and Iron) over the bundled iron strands, we need to keep all the turns neat and tidy in this critical process, failing to do so will allow previous turns to drop downwards between previous turns, we dont need this.
As the bifilar wires are placed onto the former, the stresses will build, the flex becomes worse gradually until the geometery of the coil would suffer.

So I recomend no one tries the many strands of iron wire procedure, until we know more about it.

jim 

@Bill
Here is a circuit I drew up for you to have a play around with, sometimes we need to reduce a voltage to match the input voltage of a device, it could be anything. Utilising a LM317 adjustable voltage regulator and a handful of caps, and 1 resisror and a variable resistor we can achieve this.

This item can drive a low current device, even recharge a set of ni-cad cells, there is built in current protection on the LM317 adjustable regulator.

How it works,
up to 30 volts can be fed into the circuit, the caps filter out any ripples that might cause a problem to the item being used with it, the regulator (LM317) does not allow any higher voltage to pass, unless the "5 K ohm pot" is set to allow it to appear on the output leg of the IC.
If you need, say for instance, 3.7 volts on the output, 560ohms or slightly higher would do. Soldering that resistor in circuit "crow bars" the output to that voltage, no matter how high the voltage you feed into it.
Put a heat sink on the LM317 to keep heat to a safe level, as the excess voltage has to be sent somewhere, so it is designed to get red of the waist as heat.

1670 = main circuit, plenty of these on the internet.
1666 = where I got this one from

I have a habbit of buying heeps of electronic KITTs from JAYCAR electronics, I have about 10 waiting to put together. ;)

jim

Jim:

Thank you my friend.  When I get some time and don't have this deadline I am under, I will have a go at this.  This could be a very useful thing for me, as you well know.

I really appreciate this.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 01, 2009, 09:48:45 AM

In Prof Lewin's wonderful physics class, he explains about the process of heating and hitting iron to remove its magnetic polarity.

jeanna

Very interresting this topic, my Dad said to me 50 odd years ago, if you want to magnetise a iron bar, grab it and strike a rock very hard with it, and it will become magnetised.
So I did do this, and it worked, before it wouldn't hold a paper clip, after wards it did.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 01, 2009, 10:11:48 AM
@All,
If people want to make an iron core with lots of short lengths of iron wire, then go for it.
I just didn't know if there was a way to stiffen the wire with a glue/hardener etc.

If it works better than a steel bolt, no worries.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on November 01, 2009, 01:08:15 PM
Here is an updated circuit showing the blocking diodes.  These keeps the parallel res circuit from bleeding to ground.  Earth currents can get in, but not out.  Energy is transferred from its iron coil into the copper coil.  As the energy is transferred, fresh energy comes in from the earth to replenish the oscillator.  Its freq is tuned by the variable air cap.  Use germanium diodes here if you have them.  They only drop about .2 volts.  We may not have enough volts to push through a silicon diode?  If only a little gets through, that's OK as long as we get sustained oscillation.  Measure with a high impedance meter or scope across the ground rods.  Be patient and vary the freq slowly.  Leave it on a setting for a while.  Earth currents take longer to build.  Slowly go from close to open on the air cap.  This will start you at the lowest freq and work your way up.  By stretching or compressing you inductor, you can change your freq band.  You can also substitute what ever coil you have on hand and sweep again.  Even try coil of a transformer.  Iron will give you more inductance.  That fact the NS EB has an iron core, means he is probably below 20Khz.  Here we are just proving the theory of a sustained res tuned circuit powered by the earth.  The lower freqs carry more energy.  Remember, the chapter talks about large capacitor plates shown in some of the photos.  More evidence, he is probably using these stacks to work in resonance with the EB.  The larger the components, the lower the freq.

If someone gets oscillation and voltage gain, that will be great news.  If not, it will not be a failure.  We will try and solve the problem.  Also, later on, we can try and prime the pump to get it going.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 01, 2009, 01:53:23 PM
@ Jeanna
 :D
Hi Jim,
Have fun with your bicycle... don't pedal too fast! ;D

jeanna
The bike will save the day, without pedals  ha ha 8)


@ Tishatang
Like always, your drawings are excellent, the electrodes, pardon my ignorance, what would you recomend I try, and the adjustable caps, how many piko farads might they be please.

The below drawing is just a little of the motor I have been thinking of for years. ;)

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 01, 2009, 02:12:42 PM
@Jeanna,

My question below relates to sewing machines and overlockers, none of the fellas here would be able to answer it unless they were a sewing machine mechanic, so you are the best person to ask it.

In my top drawing on the last page, I have 5 overlocking cotton reels, somewhere in the back of my mind I can remember a tensioner screw arrangement is used on sewing machines, but I need to know the reason why.
I get a uneaseing feeling if I don't use 5 of them, (one for each thread), somehow I might get into trouble with it.

What do you think, am I right.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 01, 2009, 03:51:18 PM
@ All,
I just made a great find for those who carnt find a tuning capacitor, You might decide to make your very own tuning capacitor.

This fellow here http://www.eham.net/articles/5217 has made his own tuning capacitor.
He takes you through each very detailed stage, step by step, with photos, it's a through job and well worth taking a quick look at.

AND here is another excellent one http://www.813am.qsl.br/artigos/teoria/HomemadeCapacitor.pdf this one can handle up to 2000 volts and there are maths to work out the plates etc.

These are worth a looksee.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on November 02, 2009, 01:02:56 AM
@Jeanna,

My question below relates to sewing machines and overlockers,
...

In my top drawing on the last page, I have 5 overlocking cotton reels, somewhere in the back of my mind I can remember a tensioner screw arrangement is used on sewing machines, but I need to know the reason why.
I get a uneaseing feeling if I don't use 5 of them, (one for each thread), somehow I might get into trouble with it.

What do you think, am I right.

jim
In a regular sewing machine, the reason for the screw is to make the knot that is formed stay in the middle of the cloth.
This is mostly on the machines that use a bobbin of thread for the bottom knot.
When there is only 1 thread, the process produces a chain stitch.

The stitch I was envisioning when I looked at your pix, was more like a knitted stitch which is like the chain but 4 to 5  stitches wide and forms a tube.
This is the stitch that is made by those spool knitters, (or sock knitters) and a lot like your drawing.

The wire would feed down the center of the spool and 4 or 5 nails would be evenly spaced around the edge.
To start it you would make a slip knot over 1 nail,  then wrap the thread around all the nails 2 times.
Then you would take a hook and move the lower thread over the upper one and on over the top of the nail and leave it.
Then you would continue around and around bringing the bottom thread up over the top thread and over the nail.

As you progress, you continue to wind the end of the thread to the top side so there is always a thread to go over.
In this design, you would be keeping the wire going down the center too.

I personally think wrapping it in a long thin piece of silk or thin cotton cloth is easier even if you end up sewing it in place.

There have been knitting machines to do this for about 150 years. Socks are made on these type of knitting machines.
But these machines are finiky.

This is the reason I was not surprised when mw383 said the cotton covered wire was 50 cents per foot. I say, 'And, no doubt well worth it.'

That is a big answer. I hope I answered your question in all that.

This is a good enough explanation from youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIk4ZwMnuH8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIk4ZwMnuH8&feature=related)

As you watch how she pulls the thread through the bottom remember it would be the thread and the wire together.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 02, 2009, 01:32:17 AM
Jeanna,
Thankyou for that explination, TA.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on November 02, 2009, 04:31:59 AM
@tishatang,
I have been looking for this for a couple of days. I posted it earlier but it always makes me smile. I think you will enjoy it too.

I believe this is the origin of the term "tank circuit".

From a lecture by N Tesla, delivered at Franklin Institute to a group of electrical engineers.

....by comparing the electrical
process with its mechanical analogue. The process may be illus-
trated in this manner.

Imagine a tank with a wide opening at
the bottom, which is kept closed by spring pressure, but so that
it snaps off suddenly when the liquid in the tank has reached a
certain height. Let the fluid be supplied to the tank by means
of a pipe feeding at a certain rate. When the critical height of
the liquid is reached, the spring gives way and the bottom of the
tank drops out. Instantly the liquid falls through the wide open-
ing, and the spring, reasserting itself, closes the bottom again.
The tank is now filled, and after a certain time interval the same
process is repeated. It is clear, that if the pipe feeds the fluid
quicker than the bottom outlet is capable of letting it pass
through, the bottom will remain off. and the tank will still overflow.
If the rates of supply are exactly equal, then the bottom lid will
remain partially open and no vibration of the same" and of the
liquid column will generally occur, though it might, if started by
some means. But if the inlet pipe does not feed the fluid fast
enough for the outlet, then there will be always vibration.
Again, in such case, each time the bottom flaps up or down, the
spring and the liquid column, if the pliability of the spring and
the inertia of the moving parts are properly chosen, will perform
independent vibrations. In this analogue the fluid may be lik-
ened to electricity or electrical energy, the tank to the condenser,
the spring to the dielectric, and the pipe to the conductor through
which electricity is supplied to the condenser. To make this
analogy quite complete it is necessary to make the assumption,
that the bottom, each time it gives way, is knocked violently
against a non-elastic stop, this impact involving some loss of en-
ergy ; and that, besides, some dissipation of energy results due to
frictional losses.
 In the preceding analogue the liquid is supposed to be under a steady pressure....


It is so excellent, don't you agree?

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on November 02, 2009, 06:27:39 AM
@Jim
I don't see your drawing on this thread of the motor idea.  Check your PM.  this site is having problems.  This past week the line item list of posts from today and a few days earlier is missing.  All I can do is click on unread posts and it list a few by block, not line item.  I am missing posts I believe.  Sometimes I can't access this site at all?  As a backup, I have belonged to energeticforum for some time.   See here:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4917-nathan-stubblefield-fresh-look.html

Jeanna has recently joined.  Sometimes I explain things a little differently there than here depending on the questions asked.  Check it out. 

@Jeanna
I haven't read the quote before by Tesla.  It is very good.  I believe he is trying to explain resonant circuits.  Also what happens when you slam the door shut.  Electricity has inertia.  When hit hard, energy has to go somewhere.  When I first learned about electricity, the instructor used water and a pipe analogy.  The higher the tank of water, the higher the voltage potential.  The bigger the pipe diameter, the more current can flow.  Total energy (watts)  equals the amount of gallons of water can flow given the pressure and the size of the pipe.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 02, 2009, 06:37:27 AM
I have been posting on the energeticforum in the earth battery topic for about a year.  Not as active as this forum by any means, but, good information to be sure.

I have had no problems with OU forum as of late, but, that does not mean others are not.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on November 02, 2009, 07:32:55 AM
I have a problem with a bad ISP connection.  Sometimes it slows to less than dialup.  Plus everything here has to go thru the China FW.  It may depend on the country you are in and the servers getting the data there.  Others are complaining , so I am not alone.

I can't get youtube, metacafe, or even scribd.  Speaking of scribd, go here:

http://www.scribd.com/

Search for the book called THE BOY ELECTRICIAN  by Alfred P. Morgan written 1913.  Give give you an idea of life back then.  And, some of the things Stubblefield would maybe have as far back as 1880.  Download and enjoy if you like to make things.  It is a DIY book.  Make coils, condensers Even a tesla coil.  Telephones and things like in NS time.  Unfortunately, no chapter on ground antennas. Highly recommend this book in your library.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on November 02, 2009, 08:59:24 AM
Bill and All

Go to link above and download the THE BOY ELECTRICIAN.  It's big about 200M.

On page 78 of the doc which is page 128 of the book, they have what they describe as an astatic galvanoscope.  It uses two compass needles that self cancel each other.  Extremely sensitive and it shows you how to make one.  In all my readings, I have never see this before.  Maybe this is sensitive enough you don't need to be a dowser.  Connect two lead wires to this thing.  One connected to a ground rod, and the other lead connected to a probe like an old ski pole or metal with sharp point and walk around and poke the ground to get the highest reading.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on November 02, 2009, 03:05:47 PM
OK, here is my circuit on the Stubblefield Patent 600457

To understand the patent you have to understand resonant circuits.  To review:  A parallel res circuit multiplies the voltage.  A series res circuit multiplies the amps.  The Q of the circuit is the multiplier.

For example:  We have two ground rods.  The voltage between them is 1 AC volt at a small .002 amps.  Then if Q is the multiplier, we have 50 volts peak on the parallel circuit, and .100 amps on the series circuit.  If we could combine the two separate circuits, we would have a gain in power of 50 X 50 = 2500 all in theory.  If we were only 10 % efficient due to loads and losses, we would still have a gain of 250, not bad.  The bifilar coil in the patent is high Q construction.  It probably has a Q of 100 to 200.   So, you see the potential is there.to gain a lot of power even with a small input.

Stubblefield did not have diodes to play with in his day.  Unless he used an antennae, he would not be able to use a parallel circuit.  So, what did he do?  He used two series circuits to amplify the amps.  The two ground rods of their respective circuits would still remain at the one volt difference.  We are just pumping up  the amps.  He gets the gain in voltage by colliding the series currents into each other.  Notice the new circuit shows the ground rod pairs at opposite voltage to each other!

Have you ever watched boats in a lake coming in from opposite directions.  Each has a small wake.  But when the wakes collide, it sets up a few big high waves.   Same effect is seen when reflected waves meet the source waves.  You get higher and lower waves at a lower frequency as their energies mix and match or cancel each other.  these higher and stronger wave energize the collector coil wound around the bifilar pair in opposition.  This is our power gain.  Their must be an also unknown power gain by using one coil of iron.  The higher resistance of iron can possibly link with the magnetic field of the earth, or cause a phase shift that helps the amplification factor?  Or maybe has something to do with conditioning the space?

I have seen writings speculating on the make or break of the secondary (collector) coil.  This is a simple relay set up as a vibrator.  Here, it is normally closed.  I should have placed it next to its battery where it can be normally open.  When energized by the battery or separate EB, the coil of the relay opens and closes the contacts in a vibrating mode.  This works the same as hitting a bell with a hammer.   The bell will ring at its resonant tone.  It doesn't matter how you hit the bell or how fast or what kind of hammer.  It will still ring at the same tone.  A tuned resonant circuit acts the same as a bell.  The sharp pulses of the relay contacts will ring the circuits at their resonant frequencies automatically.   

To have this make or break in the patent only makes sense if you are using resonant circuits.  The same reason he used high Q winding techniques.  These are resonant circuits.  Everything points to it.

Even though the iron and copper coils are linked together as a bifilar winding, they can each have different resonant frequencies.  The make or break will ring them both.  Look back to the Q reference at the beginning of this thread and see the graph.  The higher the Q, the longer the ring.

This primes the pump, so to speak, and gets things going into resonance.  Then the battery and the relay are no longer needed.  You collect your power through the normally closed switch.  The pumping action conditions the immediate area.  The longer you pump the EB, the bigger your conditioned area will become.  You can add a feedback loop to sustain operation.  If earth currents shift or weaken, you can prime the pump again to get things going.  Once conditioned, it takes less energy to sustain the field.  To get it going again might be as easy as sparking the wire as you touch it to connect.

Knowing these principles, you can can design your own version of the patent.  It can be bigger or smaller.  Smaller means higher frequencies.  Bigger means lower frequencies.  Normally, the lower frequencies carry more energy.  I say start with what you have on hand to prove the principle.  Try and use natural insulation materials instead of plastic.  Fiberglass and resin are OK for insulation.  I have a feeling modern magnet wire is OK as long as the coating is not plastic. Be sure and use the wood ends and cotton wrap between layers of the coils and the core.  I will explain why later. 

Before you bury your EB in the ground do the following:

Place the components on the ground and map the magnetic fields around  a five foot radius or whatever you have room for.  Write down, the direction the compass points as you walk around the spot.  See how close the compass has to be to attract to the iron, say 3 inches.  Then after you bury it and start your conditioning, see if it changes the magnetic field?   Magnetic field and orientation of the compass changes will indicate conditioning is happening and how far out it has expanded.  For example, the compass is now pointing to the iron at two feet away instead of 3 inches with the priming turned off.

I hope this helps us all in the search for cheap energy.
Tishatang

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: MW383 on November 02, 2009, 11:30:03 PM
Tishitang,

He used two series circuits to amplify the amps.  The two ground rods of their respective circuits would still remain at the one volt difference.  We are just pumping up  the amps.  He gets the gain in voltage by colliding the series currents into each other.  Notice the new circuit shows the ground rod pairs at opposite voltage to each other!

This is very interesting... I was at one time interested in earth energies colliding with ground energies on or near to surface of earth. Geomagnetic prospecting patents I have read clearly state that ground energy intensifies significantly near the point of impact with air based energies. What you are outlining here is similar, two forces are getting smashed together right in the windings. I like it because one would assume that the energy release would be magnified.

Have you ever watched boats in a lake coming in from opposite directions.  Each has a small wake.  But when the wakes collide, it sets up a few big high waves.   Same effect is seen when reflected waves meet the source waves.  You get higher and lower waves at a lower frequency as their energies mix and match or cancel each other.  these higher and stronger wave energize the collector coil wound around the bifilar pair in opposition.  This is our power gain.  Their must be an also unknown power gain by using one coil of iron.  The higher resistance of iron can possibly link with the magnetic field of the earth, or cause a phase shift that helps the amplification factor?  Or maybe has something to do with conditioning the space?

I made reference a few weeks back to a stone being thrown into water with resulting wave effects. I like your analogy better.

To have this make or break in the patent only makes sense if you are using resonant circuits.  The same reason he used high Q winding techniques.  These are resonant circuits.  Everything points to it.

Of this you have me convinced.

Even though the iron and copper coils are linked together as a bifilar winding, they can each have different resonant frequencies.  The make or break will ring them both.  Look back to the Q reference at the beginning of this thread and see the graph.  The higher the Q, the longer the ring.

I would expect a more powerful collision of the two sides if each were in resonance.

This primes the pump, so to speak, and gets things going into resonance.  Then the battery and the relay are no longer needed.  You collect your power through the normally closed switch.  The pumping action conditions the immediate area.  The longer you pump the EB, the bigger your conditioned area will become.  You can add a feedback loop to sustain operation.  If earth currents shift or weaken, you can prime the pump again to get things going.  Once conditioned, it takes less energy to sustain the field.  To get it going again might be as easy as sparking the wire as you touch it to connect.

I posted a little on priming, pumping and getting an earth response but my comments were only conceptual. I believe your explanation has raw technical merit.

Smaller means higher frequencies.  Bigger means lower frequencies.  Normally, the lower frequencies carry more energy.

Correct and in line with my observations made to commercial induction heating appliances.

Try and use natural insulation materials instead of plastic.  Fiberglass and resin are OK for insulation.....Be sure and use the wood ends and cotton wrap between layers of the coils and the core.  I will explain why later. 

I am curious about the specification for wood. I agree with the cotton wrap. I will be using a battery grade polypropylene seperator material. Will not decomose, has excellent wicking ability, and will provide excellent electrolytic pathways within cell. I made some posting in other forum along these lines.

Back a few posts you had mentioned ground energy transferring into voltaics near to iron. I agree and tried explaining the same thing in the other forum. In fact, the original Stubblefield would have had oxidation occurring on the iron core itself. By maintaining an electrolytic path between all layers and also around iron core itself, you maximize both natural iron oxidation AND ability for earth based electrons to attach to system. I believe this is the second good reason to have all irons aligned with each other in a multiple layered coil. It is looking like the best reason for iron to copper constructional alignment is the colliding effect you have described. I am also still trying to think my way through the magnetic aspects. It would seem that a nicer magnetic field within primary is achieved by the iron windings. There is also the possibility that the electrochemal reactions are enhanced in the presence of magnetism (a highly debated topic in those areas of science, more pissing contests. I have seen data in other chemistry that supports this theory).

I appreciate the manual on dowsing. I will be travelling later this week and shall read through this material while sitting in airports/airplanes. Actually I am way behind a lot of reading due to home computer issues over the weekend.

In regards to trying things out, I am in process on what I call a Stubblefield replication in addition to things much crazier (but along Stubblefields principals). Your old world approach has me very interested in the replica however. I have collected various pieces to build this replica (100+ year old carriage bolt of nice size from my dairy barn, cotton covered 16GA wire, 16GA annealed iron wire) Your comments on having wood at the end are most interesting to me at this point. I have no idea if I am in the right wire guages right now but will most likely proceed with what I have (especially with copper).

I will have many future questions on applying your latest circuit when the battery is complete. (remember that I am no electrical wizard when it comes to actual components and circuitry)

I am probably forgetting to mention a hundred things but see that this is already more than long winded.

Thanks,

MW383





Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 03, 2009, 03:52:33 AM
Tishatang,

Speaking of scribd, go here:

http://www.scribd.com/

Search for the book called THE BOY ELECTRICIAN  by Alfred P. Morgan written 1913.  Give give you an idea of life back then.  And, some of the things Stubblefield would maybe have as far back as 1880.  Download and enjoy if you like to make things.  It is a DIY book.  Make coils, condensers Even a tesla coil.  Telephones and things like in NS time.  Unfortunately, no chapter on ground antennas. Highly recommend this book in your library.

I took the opportunity yesterday whilst I was in Town and downloaded a copy, guess what, I left the USB stick there, never mind, I'll get it during this coming weekend.

mw383, and tishatang,

What can I say except wow, this information is really beginning to make headway now, between you both we all are benefiting hugely, I also like the ships headding towards each other bow wave description, it is the best I have seen.

The energy of one side of the Stubblefield coil collides with the energy coming back through the sets of coils, setting up this electrical bow wave, as you said, the higher the wave, the more is there, the more there, the easier it will be to tap into and feed it back to keep it operating.

The one KEY to getting an understanding of all this is to keep putting the info in a way that is simple to understand.
------------------

About my simple transformer test the other day, what I need to do now, is do a blind test.
I have to setup 2 identical transformers, one in air, the other in an oil bath, and record temperatures of them both running at the same time.
The transformer in air will fail first, but the oiled bath trannie will last a lot more.
Oil is my chosen liquid as it is an insulator, and I don't have ultra pure water to put the other one in.

But, I also can see if I immerse a set of copper coils into the oil bath, and feed just air through the copper pipe, (suction process is new to me) the output will scorch anything with a severe burn it touches, hotter air is better than hot steam.
I see there are hot air soldering stations about.
I also remember my dad would light his cig by placing the tip well above the glass top of the aladden preassure kerosene lamp we used to use at dinner time.

The posts on all these topics are of very high quality, if there are people reading who would like to join in, please do so but please read up through the beginning posts first.

Now I will answer my PMs.

jim

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 03, 2009, 04:10:11 AM
@ Jim:

I agree 100% with your post.  These new fellows, mw383 and tishatang, have contributed much in the way of new information, resources and new ideas.  This is exactly what we need.

I have said this before and I will say it again, what ever WE are able to accomplish here on our several different topics, will be a group effort.  It has always been that way and I am very excited for our future efforts.  We have a lot to sort through and chew on and experiment with.  I have no doubt that great things are just around the corner for all of us.

Let's see what we all can do.

Bill         PS  Great book recommendation. (The boy electrician)
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 03, 2009, 05:35:22 AM
@all

Right, I will post off the Stubblefield papers to all those who have PM'ed me about them, there is a slight hickup, I have to find them or remake from copies from the ones I have here (originals are in Stubblefield Museum in USA).

If anyone is in a screaming hurry, Bill and Jeanna and Gary and Hans and Joe have exact copies, just in case I can't get to a scanner sometime soon, plus, I have slow old dial up, so any help from the above people would be welcome.

Next post will be my engine plan.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 03, 2009, 05:52:19 AM
@EVERYONE

This is way off this thread, I know, and probably will be held on it's own thread, I will leave this to Stefan to do if he so wishes.

I present the DUDGEON ENGINE in honour of my late father, who was a fully qualified mechanic.

It is unfortunate he did not ever know about this engine of mine, which I present the plan of its layout to the world to use freely in any way they wish, to be made by any person or company who wishes to build it.

Here is the plan of my engine, it is very different from those currently used.


I have never released it until today, on the 3rd of November 2009

There is no working model in existence.

jim electricme


 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 03, 2009, 06:36:18 AM
HOW DOES the DUDGEON ENGINE WORK?


Very simple, the KEY to the whole operation is the rotating flywheel.

The flywheel has a machined continuous deep slot cut into its facing.

The continuous slot rotates with the flywheel as it rotates.

Look at the Fixed flywheel, it is the same size as the rotating flywheel.
Cut into this is a single vertical slot.
A square iron/steel bar with a round piston attached to it is placed in the slot.
There is a big steel pivotal pawl which slides around inside the rotating flywheel, the SAME time, this square bar slides up and down inside the fixed 2nd flywheel.

It depends at the position of the machined continuous loop, where the piston will be at any moment in time as the flywheel rotates.

Valves are raised or lowered by cam lifters on the inner surface of the main power out put shaft.

So how does this engine work?

Look at disk A/ at "firing", (the flywheel rotates Anticlockwise)

The sparkplug fires the fuel mixture
the slot has only a small downward slope, the rotation brings the position of the piston to the Burn time adjustable position.

The rotation continues, all this time the fuel is burning, the pressures to drive the piston downwards is very high, this allows the fuel to be burnt very well.

The rotating flywheel arrives at "Fuel burns fully" and the piston can now travel downwards on the POWER STROKE until it arrives at the Exhaust Valve opens position.

The rotation continues, the piston rises upwards on the EXHAUST STROKE to arrive at the top of its travel.

The Exhaust valve closes, the Intake valve opens, the rotation continues, the downward stroke is now the INTAKE stroke.

The rotation continues until the piston reaches the bottom of the slot, the Intake valve closes where the the up rising piston begins to compress the gasses, this is the COMPRESSION STROKE.

Reaching the top, the spark plug fires, and the cycle begins all over again and again and again.

There you have it, the 4 stroke engine which has always been made to run with two complete cycles of the flywheel, can now be run on just a SINGLE cycle of the flywheel.

The beauty of this design it can be configured to almost any configuration one would wish to design into it.
For instance, the slope of the continuous slot can be moved to any position to get any mechanical effect one requires.

For example, the machined slot can accommodate the wave form to do 8 cycles per single revolution, which equates to to firings of the sparkplug, this enables 2 power strokes in 1 single revolution.
This will double the power output at the main single shaft.

By cutting additional vertical radiating piston slots into the fixed steel wheel plate, you can add as many cylinders as you want, so the cost of additions is simply the machining of extra vertical slots, one for every piston used.

   
Print and cut out the photo below, and rotate it as you read through the above explanation.

Jim electricme inventor of the DUDGEON ENGINE
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 03, 2009, 06:49:37 AM
Haaaa Ha the world is sleeping ;D

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on November 03, 2009, 07:18:15 AM
@MW383
If we were looking at this as a bench model, yes, both at the same freq will be the most power transfer.  But this is part of a larger system.  We are trying to match harmonic freq to the earth currents.  For example, two identical freq come together crash head on.  This will create standing waves of high peaks and valleys.  To be in harmony with the earth currents, these standing waves will have to be a harmonic of the earth currents.  It is possible our components physically do not meet the requirements of the required freq.  Also, you are trying to juggle three variables for max transfer.  The two res circuits and the shifting earth currents all at the same freq.  The ability to have the two freq run at different res points, creates another set of waves that their peaks will match the freq of the earth currents.  This might be difficult to grasp in your mind at first.  It is a form of heterodyning.  A fancy word for mixing freqs in radio.  Look at my early link to radio.  Maybe it is there?

This is good for all to understand:  After we build it, we have to tune it.
If you mix two freqs together, you create two additional freqs.  One will be the additional of the two and one will be the subtraction of the two.
Let us say our data logs show a strong freq at 40Khz.  But, our bandwidth is only 50K to 70K because of the size of our components.  We can't tune to 40K and we can't reach a harmonic at 80K.  But we can tune one to 50K and one to 70K.  This will produce two additional waves at 120K and another at 20Khz.  One is 3X40 and the other a harmonic below 40.  Both will lock in sync with the earth current.  This will entrain the earth currents and condition the field.

@electricme
I can only understand part of it.  Is it possible for you to show the 4 cycles and where the piston is in relation to movable disk/crank.  I find it difficult to visualize what the piston is doing.  I am happy for you.  I can feel your excitement.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on November 03, 2009, 07:47:26 AM
@MW383
I forgot to address the issue of wood.  Any natural substance will be OK here.  It is what NS used.  What we want to avoid anywhere is the kind of plastic that is used in in saran wrap.  There are a lot of plastics out there and some might be OK.  Maybe like the white cutting boards at Walmart?

The reason for this is that there is more going on here than we would normally think.  The patent works understanding the principles explained.  This is what he built his phone system around and this is what brought in investors.  But this does not account for all the great things he did after he became a recluse.  That is another level.  I think I know what happened and we don't want some building material to prevent going to the next level.  To go there, we are going to be thinking outside the box.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 03, 2009, 10:13:00 AM
tishatang,

@electricme
I can only understand part of it.  Is it possible for you to show the 4 cycles and where the piston is in relation to movable disk/crank.  I find it difficult to visualize what the piston is doing.  I am happy for you.  I can feel your excitement.

Thank you,
The most important thing is to try to forget the bottom of the piston going around the rotating crank, as the crankshaft now no longer exists.
Visualise the piston, it now still goes up and down, but the conrod is no longer able to swing backwards or forwards, the Piston and conrod now travel directly UP or DOWN, as a single item, it cannot swing sideways as it used to.

To replace the crankshaft  function, a grove is machined into the disk that rotates.
To provide the up or down ward motion, the grove forces the piston to go up or down depending on the actual position of the grove is to the bottom of the piston shaft/ fixed Bar.

The bottom of the bar has a small stub axle, protruding out of the side of the square shaft, there is a small swivel iron piece that rotates around the shaft, this fits snugly inside the grove.

My drawing skills are not too good for this kind of thing, but I will do something about your suggestion and post this over on the new forum Bill made for me.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on November 03, 2009, 10:41:31 AM
@electrime
OK, I got the concept.  Looks good!
When you post new drawings on other engine thread, show close up of endview of rod fitting with adapter in slot.  Since the end of the pin is open, I suggest a roller bearing between the adapter swivel and rod pin.  It will require less oil to function.  Also, the rollers shown as little circles will make it easier to see the moving parts.  However, in actual practice, the loading will be high at firing.  Nothing beats a bushing bearing for loading.  but, will required a good oil pressure supply.

Put a link here on this thread to your engine thread.

Congratulation!
Chris
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 03, 2009, 03:26:37 PM
@ALL

This is beyond weather you like OU or not, its bigger than Ben Hur, its bigger than the chapps who dont like you because you don't fit in, what could be bigger than all those? The freedom of your opinions.
 
It is 18 minutes past midnight here in Australia, I was just checking my email before retiring and found this in my email box, you guys in the USA had better look out for a bill or ACT that is trying to close down your access to the internet.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/11/03/Senate-Bill-Would-Give-President-Obama-Authority-to-Pull-the-Plug-on-Your-Internet.aspx

Get on this and act now, our own country, Australia, seems to be trying the same thing.
In the middle of December this year they want to sign over soverenty too.


jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: MW383 on November 03, 2009, 04:39:52 PM
Tishitang,

I understand what you are saying conceptually and merely need to perform some background reading into the mixed frequency subject.

You are absolutely correct in stating we need the system to be directly related / in tune with natural frequency. This natural frequency seems to have a general average value but varies as I understand it. For some time I have devised simple timing schemes via external devices but none of these schemes were in direct harmony with the natural frequencies and wouldn't be able to handle variations occurring. As I further understand things, the natural magnetic field we will be interacting with is extremely weak.

Your concept of battery / earth interaction deserves serious and scientific experimentation. My approach is to get constructional aspects of the 'battery' into proper form and to begin ground testing along the lines of which you propose. This will soon be challenging for me as my geographic location will soon be completely frozen. Contrary to the popular belief of global warming, my winters are becoming more severe in temperature and also from precipitation standpoint (snow). Last winter I had underground water lines on my farm freeze solid and they are at a depth of 48".  But hey, what do I know?, not only did Al Gore invent the internet he seems to have also invented global warming too so it seems. Anyway, temperatures were      negative 15F in very early December and stayed this way a long time thus narrowing my 2009 window for outdoor experiments considerably.

Still I would like to try to get some testing accomplished before being frozen out. I think testing via a reference design important. I see everyone has various sized cores, etc... so this will probably remain a variable. Perhaps other aspects can be universalized to some degree with various builders out there (me included). I am currently in process on building essentially an antique in the closest approximation possible to Stubblefield's. I am leaving my many design deviations for another prototype (also in process).

My induction based steam heat games will definitiely be employed this winter in an effort to minimize my LP gas consumption which is quite extreme (hundreds of gallons each winter) in my old farmhouse despite my insulation efforts. I'll be flying a small wind generator for the sole purpose of charging a 4x24V battery array w/ 120V inverter to supply the induction heater (only drawing 100-450 watts). So at least there will be some free heat this time around. There would also be ability to run critical house/farm electrical systems during power outages caused by Al's occasional ice storms.

Regards,

MW383
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on November 04, 2009, 08:20:10 AM
@All
I found another good reference online.  Old radio manual from 1922 here:

http://www.bolis.com/amillar/pg/rdamh/radio-amateur-handbook.html

I had the 1959 version when I studied electronics.  Lots of things explained re circuits.  This would be about the time of Henry Moray, I think?  He was a radio guy and designed circuits for a short wave company, maybe in the 30's.

Yes, Al Gore and his superiors invented Global Warming to suit their agenda.  It got embarrassing to hold global warming conferences in cities while there was a blizzard going on outside.  Fact is global temp has dropped about 3/4 degree last 8 years.  Now they call it climate change.  Still trying to control the world.

Control of the internet will stop free exchange of ideas.  Their only threat now that they control all the corp media.  I have heard they are building a few new locations that will be the new internet.  All this secret legislation is probably to make it legal to switch to the new hardware.  Then it will be Great World FireWall instead of the Great FW of China that I am living under.  I hope it does not come to that.  Otherwise, I can see it now, listening in dark places for pirate ham radio stations broadcasting the latest breakthroughs in free energy.  Shades of WWII. 

I hate to say it, but the US has become a fascist state.  I have more freedoms in China than in the US, especially when it comes to health.  I can go to Chinese Traditional Medicine and others.  In a major catastrophe, I would rather be in China than the US.  Four years later and New Oleans is still a mess.  With the big earth quake in China, they are moving rebuilding all the houses and factories in safe zones.  This is an undertaking equivalent of the US relocating and rebuilding an area the size of Minnesota and its population.  They are doing all this and the economy is still growing about 8%.  But, the globalists are gaining control here too.  The media here is in lockstep with the swine flu hoax full of the same propaganda to get your shots.  The death rate is less than the regular flu so who are they kidding.  Just scare people to think the shot will save them.  The side effects of the vaccine will be worse than if you just took your chance that you would recover and have natural immunity.  Ok, enough of my rant.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 04, 2009, 01:54:52 PM
tishatang,

Thank you for the advice on the bamboo line tonight, :D  nice to exchange views with you.

I do agree with your above post in regards to medical stuff, Drs are allowed to poisen us with drugs, BY LAW, Stick needles and hurt us BY LAW, poke tubes into every body opening, but if I go out side and stick a needle into someone, as shure as eggs, I'm history.

Believe me I have seen some very close medical shaves over the last 34 years, I have first hand experience.

Here's an example, 30 odd years ago my wife was crook, the after hours Dr was called, he arrived, we told him she was allergic to a certain medication, he gave it anyway, (smarty pants knew better) he drove away. 10 minutes later my wife went into respiratory arrest, she could not breathe, I gave mouth to mouth while calling the ambulance, then rang the previous Dr, (see a bloke CAN do 2 things at once ladies) the ambo arrives in 5 minutes, the officer took one look at me mouth to mouth breathing her, he raced out and gets the oxygen cyl, and I let him take over, (good thing Im outta puff) a second ambulance arrives, so there are now 2 ambo personal there, the Dr arrives, and shaken like a leaf, gives her the antidote, she comes back to us,  and heads off to hospital half dead, I'm left in shock.

Yep that day I lost my faith in quacks who don't listen to you.
 
I could write a book full of medical mistakes I have seen, you would laugh or cry, probably do both.

Surgeons are not much better, but really good to fix broken bones, and sewing up skin, not much better for anythin else though, again first hand experience speaks. I broke both wrists twice, I was a bit of a rough boy in my younger years ha ha.

I envy you being able to get alternative medicines so easily, the good book tells us our food should be fruits and herbs, in Genesis, then the gov says, we will ban bananas growing by private people, its happened here,  here you lot the gov says, tip tooth paste, and fluoridated water down your throats, ridin rough shod over all us screaming  and hollering NO NO NO.
Next thing they say chew on all the additives we can't dispose of, we pass laws to make you feel better to say its good to eat poisens, and we will spray the air to keep the sun away (so you can't get vitamin d) and keep you cool, and we will poisen the air you breath at the same time, and so it goes on and on.

To be a politician you have to have a heart of stone, lie with a grin, pretend it was someones elses fault and dip your snouts into the public money trough with lightning passes in parliament for wage rises when everyone else suffers like invalid pensioners who can't get dental treatment unless they have a toothake, and if you complain, you are told off because you didn't toe the official line and get put at the end of the list, and if in hospital got to fight to get the right treatment, and they shuv you out the front door because the back room bean counters say a certain disease takes this long to get better and you are in BIG trouble BIG time for busting their budget because you didn't follow their rule book an get better quickly enough.

They can spend millions to aircondition the top floor wards of a hospital, immediately close this "new" facility to the patients, cram patients on the ground floor, call this a major improvement but it is waste on a grand scale and pretend we the public have a loose screw in the top paddock, don't know we have been lied to and have to accept 3rd world medical standard of care. (I even seen real live mice dooing wheelies ona shiny floors getting away from the nurses)
Soon I will know enough to treat myself of any disease, the best way to avoid the flu is to be a hermit, or live on a island, with a fruit tree, pay no tax, hear no bull, sing out loud, no bad neighbours, fish all you like, swim for a clean up, rub 2 sticks together to make a bon fire, and sleep in a cave for safety with no locks on the doors to keep out the baddies.

Bring out my earth battery tubes and rig up a LED that will give me free light to read overunity foreva.
     
Now people, I feel so much better after a good winge, Ha ha.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on November 04, 2009, 10:05:19 PM
Quote
Control of the internet will stop free exchange of ideas.
Control is needed to a point. I dont see any major changes as far as exchange of ideas any time soon. The masses spend too much money in order for them to make drastic changes. Money at the moment runs the world. Global corporations are the ones who run it.  The U.S. Military started this monster of communication. The amount of money that has been generated by the internet by its building,maintenance,devices and so on, probably makes the industrial revolution itself look pale in comparison. The cell phone itself is now integrated with the internet. I have a real problem with cell phones in the hands of drivers,teenagers and most adults. I have some friends,man and wife, who keep headsets on all the time. I saw a woman at walmart with a headset talking to a rack of cd disks. I find it most bizarre. I dont think we should live like that.
 Its possible the internet will evolve into terminals with the interface software on a rom chip and online storage. No more OS problems at least with terminal computers.  No matter what happens,a real necessity is the mother of invention. The true necessity's however are food,water and shelter. Everything else is just extra. Most of the civilized world has forgotten this, even though millions are starving while they play phone tag on their $100 cell phones in their cars. I blame this on Governments and Corporations. Where has charity gone! 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on November 05, 2009, 08:31:36 AM
MW383
Before it freezes, can you drive in some ground rods.  Attach leads to them and run the leads inside.  That way if you get some idea in the middle of winter, you can access the rods without going outside.

Maybe experiment with res circuits and tune to something there?

You probably have already thought of this.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: MW383 on November 05, 2009, 02:31:20 PM
MW383
Before it freezes, can you drive in some ground rods.  Attach leads to them and run the leads inside.  That way if you get some idea in the middle of winter, you can access the rods without going outside.

Maybe experiment with res circuits and tune to something there?

You probably have already thought of this.

Yes, I was considering getting these into the ground. In regards to these I need an opinion, For the copper side of bifilar winding we essentially have a positive and negative side along with associated ground rods. What recommendation would you have on ground rod material and dimensions. This same question would apply to rods attached to the iron bifilar winding.

On another note, I have travelled to southern USA yesterday and am now leaving for my working destination, major coal burning power plant. I find it funny that my work life carries me to a place such as this because personally, I obviously favor alternative energy solutions. I wonder how happy these people I see today would be with me if I told them coal burning power is idiotic and that I already am engaged in wind energy and that I believe in ground energy too. HA!! wouldn't that be fun to do. I of course cannot do so as I must represent my company in appropriate ways but it would be funny wouldn't it?

As I have told Jim, about all I can do over the next few days is read and think about these things. I'll get back to posting on Monday. I'll probably have many questions regarding actual component recommendations for the resonant circuit portion of the design. I am learning the new areas Tishitang has mentioned but there is only so fast I can become expert so I am sure I will need help in component selection.

Cheers all! It's off to see some coal burn.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 05, 2009, 03:47:24 PM
mw383

Good advice this.

MW383
Before it freezes, can you drive in some ground rods.  Attach leads to them and run the leads inside.  That way if you get some idea in the middle of winter, you can access the rods without going outside.

Maybe experiment with res circuits and tune to something there?

You probably have already thought of this.

Mike, I have done the above at my house, tishatang is on the money with this method.

I got some fairly long extension leads (try hardware shops, Bills (Pirate) done this also) then cut the plugs of the ends and I fed the extension leads through my kitchen window to connect to my earth batteries outside. I got 5 extension leads to play with. :D put small alligator clips on each wire end, to clip to different EB or LEDs in the house etc etc.

The ends of the leads inside, I just drag them where they connect to instruments like a cro or the DMM or the LED etc etc.

It sure beats going outside to make measurements in bad weather, storm, sleet/snow/ dirt storms here, rain /hale or shine.
Terrific system.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 05, 2009, 03:57:01 PM
mw383

Way back on the Joule Thief thread Bill (Pirate) got himself a big magnesium block, and a couple of Carbon 1" thick rods about 14 inches long.
Bill has been able to get a fair bit of success out of this combination, you could PM him and sask how to get them if you needed one or some.

I gota hit the sack or I'll start to studder typing, need my beauty sleep, I too tired
Been writing bat files to access hidden boot files on my PC, in my quiet time lol

jim

attrib -a -r -s -h ha ha ha, good stuff
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on November 06, 2009, 03:19:30 AM
The earth has many electrical properties.  The same as any electrical component.  Plus it has many more, not totally understood.  This is where experimentation has to occur to quantify what will happen when you do certain things.

You can look at the earth as a battery.  It produces DC.  Here different materials like maybe magnesium and carbon can be the rods.

You can look at the earth as a capacitor.  The rods are plates.  Here they can be the same material, iron or copper.  Our res circuits are formed by experimenting with inductors on the surface in tune with the capacitor plates (rods) in the ground.  See if we can find the best freqs for voltage and current through resonance.  We might assume they would be the same freq.  But, maybe not?

We can look at the earth as an inductor.  This is when we bury the earth battery (combination of inductors).  The earth induces energy into the EB.  We add the capacitors on the surface make up the res circuits. 

It is obvious, the earth makes a better inductor according to Stubblefield.  But, it may help to learn about the theory of res circuits first on the surface.

Maybe the easiest thing to do is get a copper pipe and an iron pipe for the res circuits.  Whatever is cheap and on hand.  Could be two copper pipes or two iron pipes.  Put a block of wood on top for protection and drive them into the ground with a hammer.  Connect your leads by sticking a bare end of the lead into the pipe and wedging a cork into the pipe to hold the lead in place.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 06, 2009, 04:12:37 AM
tishatang:

What you suggest about the earth is correct I believe.  Also, way back on the EB topic just to quiet the "galvanic only" folks I cut 2 pieces of copper pipe (from the same pipe) about 12" long and drove them into the ground aligned north to south along the meridian, spaced about 4 feet apart.  I still got almost a volt dc out of them and, interestingly enough, (according to my meter) the pipe to the north showed as being plus and the pipe to the south showed minus.  Same materials, same pipe and yet it was still making volts.

So, I think your idea for folks to get started with the pipes is a good one.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 06, 2009, 10:08:45 AM
To all

I have my storm recording setup and running.
The scope is turned on, along with my Laptop with a remote controlled web cam.

I was test running it just before and captured a flash of lightning, but carntt tell if the scope registered anything.
The image quality is not good.

Anyway take a look at the results in the TWV below, look for the paper clip.

jim

I just went back and examined the scope display, it  looks like the instant the lightning flashed, the scope image was momentary blank, I think it is a scanning sync setup problem, there is no way this setup can be genlocked or frame locked together, never min, I will soldier on.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on November 06, 2009, 10:28:58 AM
Bill
OK, there you go.  Use Bill's example as a reference when installing the pipes.  The one volt can be increased with a parallel res circuit and the meager amps increased with a series res circuit.  Some benefit may be realized by having the DC bias on top of the AC resonant signal?  Look at it this way.

Our res circuit is our child in the swing you are pushing.  You soon learn to time your pushes with the natural rhythm of the swing.  You are now in resonance.  The DC bias is a strong wind that comes up while you are on the playground with your child.  The wind is in you face.   You find that now you have to push harder because you are fighting the head wind.  But, the swing comes back stronger on its own.  The wind pushes the swing back, adding its energy to the return.

If we were to plot energy vs time, the top of the sinewave would be different than the bottom.  In other words, we used more energy against the wind (positive part of sine wave) than bottom (negative part of sine wave).  This difference in output has been used to explain the Coler device.

 See here:   http://rexresearch.com/coler/colerb.htm

 Maybe this is part of the reason Stubblefield works?  I don't know.  I look at the one volt difference as the supply voltage necessary to power the res circuits.  Is the one volt there because of capacitance between the plates (my belief) or more like a battery?

What is not common knowledge is that the N pole of a magnet is stronger the S pole.  Possibly, as the earth currents charge up the plates (rods), the N rod with have the higher voltage.  Remember, we have an iron winding to link up to this difference in the magnetic field.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 06, 2009, 01:07:50 PM
Pulsing  Transformer in Oil  EXPERIMENT 8)

I don't want to disrupt what tishatang is doing, so I will make just this single post that relates back to pulsing a transformer with a modified AC voltage.

Tonight I took my Transformer, the same setup I used last week and carried out this experiment.

Diode on the active of the primary, the secondary went to a 12v car dash light bulb.
I set the transformer in a ex tuna steel tin, filled it almost to the brim with cooking oil, just about half a litre.

Got my outside temperature probe, attached it to the inside side of the container in the oil, cant find my DMM with Temp probe unit..

Switch on at 8.15pm    VoltagePrimary=240v ac VoltageSecondary=12.3v ac out to 12v5w bulb.
 bulb is quite bright.    room temp=27.1deg

Time       Temp      Observations   BULB         Remarks
8.23         35.1c      oil hot          bulb is lit    container is quite warm now
8.24         45.1c      oil hot          bulb lit        container almost too hot to touch
8.25         47.8c      oil hot          bulb lit        container cannot be touched too long too hot
8.26         51.8c      oil quite hot   bulb lit       container cannot be touched any more
8.27         55.6c      oil very hot    bulb lit       container oil has tiny bubbles coming out of the primary and secondaries
8.28         59.2c      oil very hot    bulb lit still OK  container bubbles settling down
8.29         61.7c      oil very hot    bulb still lit container radiating heat now. temp probe came loose WHY
8.30         63.7c      oil vv hot       bulb lit       container radiating more heat. put temp probe back, its vibrating
8.31         67.0c      oil vv hot       bulb lit       container getting even hotter   must be magnetic field doing this

Test magnetic field effect by holding a small iron bar vertically, 2" from transformer I can feel vibrations, they get very strong directly over the transformer itself.

8.32         69.2c      oil is vv hot    bulb still lit oil changing colour slightly, don't know why, more bubbles appearing.
8.33         Missed observation looking at inside of experiment.
8.34         Over 70c  oil in bath is very hot      TEMP Display goes out of order, has reached its limit. Too hot for gear.
8.35         unknown,  oil looking funny             Bulb lit, voltage on across bulb 11.9volts

Can only observe from now on, bulb stays on until 9.04
 
9.03         oil simmering, violent boiling commenses around active lead below inside of primary and secondary coils
9.04         oil simmering, FLASH OF BLUE LIGHT, slight muffled bang, No sparks, Bulb LIGHT Goes OUT.
9.46         oil container is still very hot, cannot touch for long at all.
               Experiment over.

Result is, a Transformer can heat oil when fed DC pulses from a AC supply when a 1N4004 diode is placed on the primary coil.

The transformer gets EXTREAMLY HOT, transferring the heat to the oil it is subsurged within, surprisingly, the DIODE took the punishment with out failure.

The transformer primary windings failed, so the experiment could not be completed.
The reason is not known at this point in time, why the primary windings failed, as it is still too hot for me to poke my fingers into it. ;D

On the white meter you can see HH:HH displayed, the temperature above 70.00 centergrade has been exceeded.
The meter recovered after the probe cooled down and is OK.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 06, 2009, 05:49:10 PM
Jim:

I have to say that this was a fantastic experiment to see.  Well done and with good, solid data collection.  That's over 160 degrees F there Jim. (70 C)  This is way hotter than most folks water heaters are set.  (Mine is set to 110 F)  And, who knows how high it got before the primary failure?  Next time, if there is a next time for this, get a cheapo meat thermometer in the store.  They sell the kind up here that have an aluminum rod and a readout dial on the end.  They cost like $2 here.  I used one on a case once and I calibrated it by boiling water (212 F) and turning the dial to 212 so it was right on.  This made it very accurate in the upper readings area.

Great job.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 07, 2009, 12:18:41 AM
Bill
Thank you, I am going to re run the experiment again soon, but hope fully with a thermometer with a higher limit.
I have a couple of ELCB units that can be plugged in series with the 240v supply.

I could expect the temp to be a fair bit higher next time, and I might build a proper enclosure to contain any unfortunate incident in case of fire etc, perhaps with a perspex lid (got some of this lying around), with the hinge side from my end for safety, fit it with a lid limiting bar or something.

I also have a fire extinguisher here as backup.

jim

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on November 07, 2009, 01:16:54 AM
tishatang,

Thank you for the advice on the bamboo line tonight, :D  nice to exchange views with you.

I do agree with your above post in regards to medical stuff, Drs are allowed to poisen us with drugs, BY LAW, Stick needles and hurt us BY LAW, poke tubes into every body opening, but if I go out side and stick a needle into someone, as shure as eggs, I'm history.

Believe me I have seen some very close medical shaves over the last 34 years, I have first hand experience.

Here's an example, 30 odd years ago my wife was crook, the after hours Dr was called, he arrived, we told him she was allergic to a certain medication, he gave it anyway, (smarty pants knew better) he drove away. 10 minutes later my wife went into respiratory arrest, she could not breathe, I gave mouth to mouth while calling the ambulance, then rang the previous Dr, (see a bloke CAN do 2 things at once ladies) the ambo arrives in 5 minutes, the officer took one look at me mouth to mouth breathing her, he raced out and gets the oxygen cyl, and I let him take over, (good thing Im outta puff) a second ambulance arrives, so there are now 2 ambo personal there, the Dr arrives, and shaken like a leaf, gives her the antidote, she comes back to us,  and heads off to hospital half dead, I'm left in shock.

Yep that day I lost my faith in quacks who don't listen to you.
 
I could write a book full of medical mistakes I have seen, you would laugh or cry, probably do both.

Surgeons are not much better, but really good to fix broken bones, and sewing up skin, not much better for anythin else though, again first hand experience speaks. I broke both wrists twice, I was a bit of a rough boy in my younger years ha ha.

I envy you being able to get alternative medicines so easily, the good book tells us our food should be fruits and herbs, in Genesis, then the gov says, we will ban bananas growing by private people, its happened here,  here you lot the gov says, tip tooth paste, and fluoridated water down your throats, ridin rough shod over all us screaming  and hollering NO NO NO.
Next thing they say chew on all the additives we can't dispose of, we pass laws to make you feel better to say its good to eat poisens, and we will spray the air to keep the sun away (so you can't get vitamin d) and keep you cool, and we will poisen the air you breath at the same time, and so it goes on and on.

To be a politician you have to have a heart of stone, lie with a grin, pretend it was someones elses fault and dip your snouts into the public money trough with lightning passes in parliament for wage rises when everyone else suffers like invalid pensioners who can't get dental treatment unless they have a toothake, and if you complain, you are told off because you didn't toe the official line and get put at the end of the list, and if in hospital got to fight to get the right treatment, and they shuv you out the front door because the back room bean counters say a certain disease takes this long to get better and you are in BIG trouble BIG time for busting their budget because you didn't follow their rule book an get better quickly enough.

They can spend millions to aircondition the top floor wards of a hospital, immediately close this "new" facility to the patients, cram patients on the ground floor, call this a major improvement but it is waste on a grand scale and pretend we the public have a loose screw in the top paddock, don't know we have been lied to and have to accept 3rd world medical standard of care. (I even seen real live mice dooing wheelies ona shiny floors getting away from the nurses)
Soon I will know enough to treat myself of any disease, the best way to avoid the flu is to be a hermit, or live on a island, with a fruit tree, pay no tax, hear no bull, sing out loud, no bad neighbours, fish all you like, swim for a clean up, rub 2 sticks together to make a bon fire, and sleep in a cave for safety with no locks on the doors to keep out the baddies.

Bring out my earth battery tubes and rig up a LED that will give me free light to read overunity foreva.
     
Now people, I feel so much better after a good winge, Ha ha.

jim

To tell you the truth, the natural stuff is the complete best and as you know overunity electric technology is supressed...do you want to know the equivalent in the medical world?

This stuff..it's called colloidal silver water and it would cure everything and reverse it..it also enhances your bodys cell growth rate by quite a bit and it will completely clean your blood of what should not be there because silver is like programmed by the supreme mind of god if you don't mind me saying..and it will defeat anything bad bacteria and leave the good behind and that means all off bacteria like an off beat cell as you know, anything viral, anything cancer but slower and will act like a second immune system it is too numerous to list here..but yea it is extremely benefical for your body.

http://www.dicksonbiz.com/local/videos/videodirectlink-15.php

In 1990, an astounding discovery was reported at Albert Einstein College of Medicine in NYC by Drs. Kaali and Wyman, resulting in Patent No. 5,188,738 being issued in 1993 entitled "Alternating Current Supplied Electrically Conductive Method and System for Treatment of Blood and/or Other Body Fluids and/or Synthetic Fluids with Electric Forces.". Their research work involved an in vitro & in vivo human Blood Electrification process, which electronically sterilizes the blood, resulting in all known pathogens, including bacteria, viruses, parasites, and fungus, being completely eliminated! Their research had been anticipated 24 years earlier in 1973 with the research involved in Patent No. 3,753,886. Not surprisingly though, due to the stranglehold, that the Pharmaceutical Cartel has in the U.S., this revolutionary clinical data was almost totally suppressed. Other than a few News Articles such as the Science News: Mar. 30, `91 pg. 207, Longevity: Dec. `92/pg. 14, and Houston Post: Mar. 20, '91 /Sect. A-10, plus the Patent No. 5,188,738, there has been a complete BLACKOUT since then in the News Media about this powerful medical technology.

So yes that means all sickness known to man and get rid of it completely at it's roots.

http://100777.com/node/215

Cannabis thc, etc and natural solutions and the reason why herbs solve whatever is because of the silver in the ground which is natural but because of the farming technique...their is a lack of silver in the soil which would mean low and because who have very low silver in their blood stream are the ones who keep getting sick and i have read tons of articles from honest people that say the stuff they add to food is what causes sickness in your body..i mean if it is left completely and utterly natural and you took a bit of this stuff you will be the most healthiest person alive on the planet and will never get sick.

http://100777.com/node/1586

Since it's heaverly suppressed like hell in america you can buy it from uk-cs.co.uk i recommend this because they do the proper colloidal silver.. about 50 usd well this is where i buy mine..as i am in the uk...you may be able to buy from canada or australia.

A bottle of 500ml of this stuff will last you 3 months and 1 or a bit more weeks @ 5ml a day.

There is no overdose on this stuff..i recommend 5ml a day if you are healthy which is plenty for what it does and does extremely well you will find your urine well turn into a water colour but if you are sick then something like 10ml.

Anyways a bit about the vaccine and yes it will spawn the deadly 1918 created spanish flu that killed millions because in the us it is a biological weapon weapon and if i was you i would not even bother takeing it because the aim of these vaccines is to kill people and people have been dieing from the vaccine and in the ukraine they were sprayed and about over half a million are affected by this deadly spanish flu because if you knew about the facts of the 1918 spanish flu well yea blood in the lungs..

Person from mossad said that it is a biological weapon, so did jane burkiminister at the theflucase.com sorry for makeing this go off topic but it is extremely important and yea...really how can something like the so called swine flu that is less dangerous than the normal cold get pushed so much?

Well it is to kill people.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on November 07, 2009, 07:28:12 AM
Jim
My, you are a brave one!  Running experiment to point of self destruct.  Hot oil is dangerous, especially when boiling.  Your boiling oil temp is probably around 240C to 300C?  Bubbles in oil would be breaking down of insulation in windings.  Transformer not designed for this high heat.  Oil will breakdown and change color.  For to reach such high temp in so short a time is impressive. 

Unfortunately, we have no data on power consumed.  That is why I recommended wattmeter setup.  If you have extra transformers to repeat experiment, at least put a one ohm resistor in series with primary.  That way you can measure voltage drop across the resistor and calculate amps using ohm's law.   That way we can approximate power consumed.  Maybe someone with knowledge of circuits and physics can approx power consumed by working backward?  Would the amount of power required to boil this quantity of oil in this amount of time plus light the bulb, be able to pass thru the diode without the diode burning up?  If the diode can in no way pass this amount of power to do this work, then we could suspect OU?
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 07, 2009, 02:29:09 PM
lltfdaniel1

We can get the Colloidal silver here, I bought a couple of bottles of it last year for myself, then a member of my family decided they needed it more than me ha ha.

Here is another one to add to the list of things in the get well cubbard.
MMS discovered by Jim Humble (no not me, another fella in USA in fact), a google search will turn him up for you.

Now, how about the Rife machine, another excellent invention.
Resonance of the red blood cell is different to a cancer cell, find out what resonance the cancer cell is, and whack it hard at the speed it dosent like, and viola, it dies, the red cell happily passes through the energy without a problem and the body cleans up the mess.
----------------------------
Bill
Yesterday as I could not locate my good DMM, I decided to go into town today and saw a nice looking,,,,, DMM, excellent thing with this baby it will meassure temperature up to 1,400 degrees, has a clamp current sensor also, and can measure Hz (cycles). Not bad at all for a Automotive test instrument, $79 to boot. Q1585 from Dick Smith Electronics.

Well, I look at it this way, if I'm going to do the experiment, then I need the test instrument, besides with this units extra features will come in handy later on, expense justified.
-----------------
tishatang,
I have (3) watt hour meters, so I can run a parallel experiment, I am almost tempted to shell out for a light lux meter so I can meassure the light intensity of the 12v bulb while I run the experiment, this is going to take a while to setup though, got a lot of catching up to do here.
Don't worry, "the brave one" will be careful as always, the only bit of gear I really need is a good datalogger and this just has to wait, might have to build that piece one day.

I think mw383 might be able to do the figures for us.

I just had a thought, I would like to know what would occur, if I heated some oil in a closed container to a few degrees of its flash point, then inject freezing water into it, instant superheated steam, very interresting.

jim
 

 


 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on November 07, 2009, 06:48:27 PM
Well as far as i see it, it is just the silver so i just buy the normal colloidal silver.

Extremely good stuff it is.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on November 08, 2009, 06:23:13 AM
 :) Hello I'm back now !

Has anyone been successful at getting 50 mA from a  1x EER (Earth battery) cell ????

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 08, 2009, 07:08:31 AM
freepow:

Welcome back.  I got 460 mA's from my Stubblefield coil last year.  I am getting about 20-25 mA's from my carbon rods/magnesium block at this time.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on November 08, 2009, 07:26:04 AM
Hi Bill, could you give me detailed instructions on how to build your stubblefield battery,please  ???
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on November 09, 2009, 01:07:12 AM
Hi Bill, could you give me detailed instructions on how to build your stubblefield battery,please  ???

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.msg74742#msg74742 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.msg74742#msg74742)

Best instructions come from the inventor himself.

Make yours look as much like the drawings as possible and use what you can to make the materials match.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on November 09, 2009, 04:35:50 AM
Quote
Best instructions come from the inventor himself.
@Jenna. Sometimes anyway. I have a problem visually with the drawings on the patent that was posted. I think someone should redo it. As he said bare iron wire wasn't absolutely necessary but the effect was a little better.  The cloth covered wire will work. I think that one of the main things is that each layer is covered in cloth for the electrolytic effect of water. If just the iron wire itself was covered you lose some of  the electrolytic effect to my understanding but I may be wrong on this. The sizing of the iron wire from what I see should be the same size or slightly larger than the copper wire,as thats the wire creating the magnetic field.
 Tishatang mentioned conditioning which I misunderstood as earth elements and not field conditioning. The make and break is still vague to me.
 I have a question on why the 30 foot spacing with the rods? I also have a question on frequency length. I have some info on 60hz Em waves that could possibly affect your joule thief experiments. Also need help in analyzing some things I ran across while working at my bench. Ill post all this later as I need to go to bed as I have to drive my wife to the dentist 45 miles away in the morning.
Frank
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on November 09, 2009, 10:16:31 PM
@Jeanna. Sometimes anyway. I have a problem visually with the drawings on the patent that was posted. I think someone should redo it.
...
OK
electricme made a version, and did a good job. It was one of his first posts so you could find it in his profile at the beginning of his posts. (He did add his own supposition that the patent said what kind of cloth, which it did NOT.)

The only real information we have is from the patent and the brochure.

The rest is speculation.

I think it is really important to give a new person the true information and not add all the suppositions from others including ourselves.
The best way to be really confused by this is to add other's suppositions to the original, because they may be wrong or may steer you in a wrong direction.

I printed out a copy of the patent and literally read it every day. I read it and discovered a new meaning or phrase each time I did this.
There is no easy way... but this is not hard.

Quote
Tishatang mentioned conditioning which I misunderstood as earth elements and not field conditioning.
I think this is from the brochure, but it may also be suppositions.

Quote
The make and break is still vague to me.

Me too. I have my own idea and many people continue to add theirs... again suppositions.

Quote
I have a question on why the 30 foot spacing with the rods? I also have a question on frequency length.

He never said to do that 30 foot spacing, but I noticed that.
My own supposition.
I think I am the only person to have made a measurement on a scope using an earth probe either in the simple probes or with stubblefield. People took their scopes outside but I do not believe anyone else came up with a frequency.
I kept requesting them to do that, but I missed it if anyone did.

Quote
I have some info on 60hz Em waves that could possibly affect your joule thief experiments.

Yes, please. Also, please remember I am new to a lot of this so please make it simple!
Quote
Also need help in analyzing some things I ran across while working at my bench.
ooo now I am really curious.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 10, 2009, 03:43:20 AM
@ IotaYodi

OK
electricme made a version, and did a good job. It was one of his first posts so you could find it in his profile at the beginning of his posts. (He did add his own supposition that the patent said what kind of cloth, which it did NOT.)

That's right, I find the patients very difficult to read and understand as they are written in a way which confuses me.
 
The only real information we have is from the patent and the brochure.

The rest is speculation.

I think it is really important to give a new person the true information and not add all the suppositions from others including ourselves.
The best way to be really confused by this is to add other's suppositions to the original, because they may be wrong or may steer you in a wrong direction.
Right on jeanna

I printed out a copy of the patent and literally read it every day. I read it and discovered a new meaning or phrase each time I did this.
There is no easy way... but this is not hard.
I think this is from the brochure, but it may also be suppositions.
 
Me too. I have my own idea and many people continue to add theirs... again suppositions.

I think I am the only person to have made a measurement on a scope using an earth probe either in the simple probes or with stubblefield. People took their scopes outside but I do not believe anyone else came up with a frequency.
I kept requesting them to do that, but I missed it if anyone did.


jeanna, there are many frequencies detectable on the scope, we need more sophisticated equipment to analyse them.
 
Yes, please. Also, please remember I am new to a lot of this so please make it simple! ooo now I am really curious.

jeanna

jim


Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 10, 2009, 04:28:31 AM
IotaYodi,

Make and Break,

This is the terminology used to describe how the electrical path is switched on or off.

Imagine a set of 2 contacts, when they are "closed" the term is MAKE.
When they are open, they are "broken" or BREAK    ie Make and Break.

This term is used by all the old electrical inventors, its old language speak.

jim
 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 10, 2009, 05:01:49 AM
@ IotaYodi

I have a question on why the 30 foot spacing with the rods? I also have a question on frequency length.

Frank

Why 30 feet between probes?
 I think the distance is the result of finding the best spot which produced the best energy at that time.

But, I think, several sets of waves of energy were passing between the rods in that instance.

Lets take a look at just 1 set of 7 Hz or Cycles, we have 7 waves making a set of waves. (well 7 hz is a known freq that travels through the earth, amongst others several others.

Look at 1722.jpg, The Hz or Cycle in  relation ship to time.
I have drawn 8 waves, but between is 7 complete waves, as the waves pass by the rods in the earth, they see the energy, and we can see itself on our DMMs as DC or AC depending on the nature of the wave at that moment in time, as I believe they alter constantly.
-------------------------------------

In image 1725 I think it shows several groups of 7 cycle energy flowing.
In image 1726 I have drawn the 50Hz or 60 Hz, depends on what country uses what power supply system.
In image 1727 I have drawn the 50 Hz or 60Hz over on top of a single cycle of 7 cycle earth energy.

So when we measure the probes, we see Everything as a scrambled signal on the scopes.

We need some way to NUL out the 50Hz and 60Hz signal to get to the "other" signals present.
---------------------------------------------

Lets go and take a look at 1723.jpg
As the wave passes at its "peak" the points/switch opens, when the wave reaches the low it closes, ready to be "opened" at the next peak.

So I think the Stubblefield cell needs the "secondary coil, to carry out the function of "Making and Breaking", it can do this by switching open one of the wires, perhaps the copper or iron wire at the "peak" of the wave.
.
jim
 

 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on November 10, 2009, 06:20:45 AM
link to making a relay into a vibrator (make and break).

http://www.electronixandmore.com/project/1.html

For us, the primary of the example is the secondary of the EB patent.  This will cause induction pulses in the primary (bifilar iron copper).

http://www.electronixandmore.com/project/1.html
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on November 10, 2009, 07:01:53 AM
Nice link. tishatang

I was told waaay back that Stubblefield invented a special kind of magnetic speaker.

If there is any way for this thing to jump up and down and cause a make and break, it is my thought that this is what he used for the make and break.
IF he needed an external make and break, that is.
I have seen as many oscillations coming from the earth as you could ever need, to satisfy the term make and break, and I do not think an external one was needed.
I think it only needs to be tuned right.
I think in a sort of way like what I was/am doing with that circuit with 2 secondaries  that keeps growing.
It is powered by one set of pulses, and produces more and more effect as more inductors are added in series.

I think the best efforts we can make will be to find the right or best tuning for the earth waves that are there.
We should try to add inductors in series.

This approach did work with my 2 stubblefield EB this summer.
I added about 25-40 per cent more volts on any time I used a series inductor.
I think if I had chosen better, I would have had a better result.

(and the cone may give me the multi frequency flexibility ... I am hoping.)

Anyway, thanks for that link. It is a cool website for many reasons.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on November 10, 2009, 09:07:30 AM
Jeanna
I don't recall reading anything about a speaker by NS.  But, it seems logical because of his telephone inventions.

Yes, you are right about getting good pulses out of the earth if you can tune to where they are.  If they are not primary sources, they might be the beat differences between the two freq of the bifilar pair.  My gut feeling is that NS added the make/break after the failure of a demonstration.  The ground had no energy to tap.  By adding a make/break, he could use a small portable battery to charge up the surrounding ground around the EB.  This is like priming the pump.  After which, it works like it should.

Series inductors is exactly what NS did in my opinion.  This did two things:

First, this adds total inductance in the circuit.  This helps you lower the freq of resonance.  There is more energy in the lower freqs. 

And, it lets you fine tune to find the res freq.  Variable caps were not invented until about 1915.  In the 1800's and 90's the only way NS could fine tune, would be to have a series inductor on the surface to peel off extra turns to find the sweet spot.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 10, 2009, 04:28:27 PM
tishatang:

Do you think he made use of a spark gap too?  I have always thought that maybe he did and, after seeing Tariel Kapanadze's work, I think it it is even more likely.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on November 10, 2009, 08:44:06 PM
Hi Bill,
I once asked Ian how to see if he did that. (Do you remember I thought it would have been inside that globe like a van de graff ball?)
He told me to put a piece of very thin paper between the wires, and he said I would probably not be able to see it at the frequencies he thought I was looking at.
I did this.
I never did see a spark, even at night.
I also connected a peizo speaker and thought that I might have heard a scratch or 2.

Now, my and Ian's assumptions about the frequency could be wrong.
It is when I decided I really needed a scope, since I couldn't see any spark.

Since this year with the scope showed so many frequencies and many at lower levels, I am questioning all the above.

@Tishatang.
I see.
An external device would have fit into everything NS was doing too.
He was working out signaling from a caller, so it is not out of the question as I once thought it was.

thank you,

jeanna

edit:
But, I still prefer the idea that he used a spark gap as the switching mechanism.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 10, 2009, 11:00:07 PM
Jeanna:

Yes, as you know, this is just supposition on my part but, I think it fits.  As we all have been figuring out, Stubblefield used both materials and methods that were around in his day.  So, this could easily mean spark gap instead of transistors which were not invented later.

I did not post any freqs on the EER as after seeing my complex triple waveform, I have no idea on how to separate and or isolate the freqs on my scope.  Jim has also reported multiple freqs as have you.  I would like to see what they are just in case there is a relationship between them, as in harmonics, or something like that.  Or, maybe they are all just 3 totally different freqs that come from the earth?  I have no idea.

I also agree with you 100% that those dome like devices could easily house the spark gap.  A sphere inside firing to the concave dome would do it.  BTW a piece of paper is about .003" and with the power we have seen from our set-ups, you would need to be much closer than that, maybe .0003"  might do it?  NS had those huge coils and many of them (series, parallel?) so I think it was much easier for him to get a decent spark.  Kapanadze's video showed a gap of about 1/8" if I remember right.  Somehow, he was able to get enough energy from the earth to make that jump his gap.  I wish I knew what all this meant.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: MW383 on November 10, 2009, 11:40:39 PM
Tishitang,

I'm back from a bunch of travels and now getting caught up in here. Summary of the travels is no surprise; power company wants to sell you lots and lots of electricity and continue charging you lots of money. So after these little corporate games my interests in Stubblefield are even more renewed. While on the road I read various posts here in addition to auxillary information. At any rate, I remain curious as to applying the resonance system to each winding. It appears that ground post material for each winding is flexible in regards to material. So if I just went with a copper pipe for each, this is good? I will most likely start out with smaller pipe diameters of less than an inch and lengths less than 24 inches. It seems prudent to space these pipes so that they are 3ft from each other. (I'm still debating what mechanisms are at play here) Any further suggestions most welcome here.....

The other question I have is in regards to capacitors. I'm not electronics wizard but it looks like using variable capacitors being suggested here. I am under the assumption that these devices operate in frequency ranges and also under the impression that being able to operate from 7hz-2khz is in order. I need to either make or buy this stuff so I can get busy in the ground. I certainly have old radio equipment that can be hacked but would this get me into frequency ranges we are talking about here?

So we tune in each variable capacitor to achieve a good observable result. I am presuming this is at a low frequency and = to natural earth frequency. So once tuned in, how do we stay locked on to what I assume is a naturally variable earth frequency? (again, still trying to get mechanisms at play straight in my mind)

other thoughts.....

I read somewhere in posts that someone suggested that copper could be slightly smaller in guage than iron. I would like to confirm this as being probably an OK thing to do. The reason being chemistry mechanism in regards to incoming earth charge. We end up bypassing the half reactions occurring when we pick up earth charges thus truth to the urban legend that the copper windings being unreacted after extended service times. I still think the iron will corrode heavily which is not necessarily a bad thing because iron oxide better than just bare iron. We just need to make sure that this iron corrosion does not bridge to copper directly. This is where I hope cotton wire insulation I will be using holds up. There are wire size considerations here as well. Cotton insulated copper wire has a total diameter (wire itself + cotton insulation thickness). To create even winding situation, bare iron wire needs to be same as total diameter of insulated cotton wire. So in this scenerio, the actual wire guage of the iron would be larger than that of the copper. I am working with a 16ga iron and 18ga cotton insulated copper scenerio in my current build (total diameters very close to each other)

I am still debating about core insulation material and insulating material between windings. I really want a polypropylene based battery 'seperator' material. Reason = better capillary action of ground based moisture. I have yet to find a source.

, MW383

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on November 11, 2009, 01:01:20 AM
...

I did not post any freqs on the EER as after seeing my complex triple waveform, I have no idea on how to separate and or isolate the freqs on my scope.  Jim has also reported multiple freqs as have you.  I would like to see what they are just in case there is a relationship between them, as in harmonics, or something like that.  Or, maybe they are all just 3 totally different freqs that come from the earth?  I have no idea.


Bill
I wasn't being critical.
I just would love to have a comparison.

The appearance is so similar, but are mine somehow different?
Are we all getting 2.4Mhz and more?
Mine ranged from about 20 to 22hz all the way to above what my scope could read.

I guess I assumed this info would come along with the datalogging.
I just wish it had.

thanks,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on November 11, 2009, 01:11:13 AM
mw383

Welcome back  :D,

When I worked in a backpacking store many years ago polypropylene was being used for dry inner socks.

Then later I had a source for webbing straps and polypropylene was a favorite el-cheapo alternative to nylon the companies would offer me.
So, polypropylene shoelaces might work.
If you can tell it from other materials by the feel of it (unmistakable) you can just go to a store.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 11, 2009, 01:52:44 AM
@All,

I have just made another TWV on the output from my probes and got something interresting this occasion.
I have seen this occur a few times but haven't caught it until now.
The whole wave form "jumps" larger for an instant then settles back down to what it look like before, (I was lucky today).

It happened just after 10:00 AM in Australia.

Jim

PS look for the tiny paperclip and click on it to see the tiny video (about 10 seconds)
 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on November 11, 2009, 03:43:59 AM
Hi jim,
I managed to get the plugin I need to see those 3gp's of yours.

Wow.
I have also seen a jump, but it did not come out as clearly as this. Very nice!

thanks for showing this,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: tishatang on November 11, 2009, 07:19:27 AM
Bill
The make/break (vibrating relay) described in the patent performs the same function as a spark gap, maybe better.  Sparks cause different dynamics and were used in first wireless communication.  An open spark gap will randomly spark when conditions are right.  A vibrating relay, you can control when it will open and close.  When the relay opens it creates sparks.

To separate three freqs, you can use a parallel res circuit (tank circuit) that tunes to the freq you want.  This is why I recommend getting some old var air caps and experimenting building parallel and series res circuits.  Instead of connecting your scope directly to the ground rods, you first have the signal go thru the res circuit. 

If you have one strong signal like the one shown in Jim's photo, make sure your res circuit is tunable around the freq of the signal.  Jim did not say the freq, but the scope should give a good idea of the freq.  Let us say it is 30Khz,  We want our res freq to be in the 30Khz range.  There are charts and formulas for calculating res freq.  If our var air cap is 355 pfd, we need an inductor size that will give 30Khz at res.  In simple terms we are using radio tuning techniques.  But we are tuning to the earth freqs and not the radio wave freqs. 

MW383
I don't think the material of the rod is that important.  Use what is on hand.  We are learning principles, not trying to maximize what is already working.   Where to put them will vary with each location, depending on earth energies.  I suggest using a very sensitive analogue meter if you have one.  Maybe a DDM will work but I do not like the delay of auto-ranging.  You do not get a smooth reading.  Or, build a galvanometer described in THE BOY ELECTRICIAN I referenced earlier.  This is simply a compass with about 50 turns of fine wire around it.  It is mounted on a block of wood with terminals to connect your leads to the fine wire.  Place one rod in the ground.  Attach a long lead to it and the other end to the meter.  Another lead from the meter to your second rod.  Walk around and poke the ground here and there looking for a reading on the meter.  The highest reading is where you want to put the second rod.

The var air caps are just for you all to experiment and get to learn about res circuits.  These are just above ground experiments using caps and inductors you happen to have on hand or get out of an old radio.  You might want to build a simple crystal radio to learn about tuning the circuit.  It is the same theory and method.  We are just applying it differently.

We can certainly get a small var air cap down low in freq using using an extra big inductor.  But this gets to be impractical because of physical size.  It will be easier to use an inductor and bury it as in an earth battery.  We can then add a large cap to it on the surface.  In this day of large caps, it should be easy to get to very low freqs of the earth.  Tuning will be more difficult however.

The bifilar wire shown in the patent has the copper wire and its insulation equal to the diameter of the bare wire.  Both outer diameters should be close to the same size to make wrapping easier and hold its form.  If you can find the old style fabric electrical tape, I would use it to make the insulation around the bolt.  It might be made of cotton?  Or, maybe old style white adhesive tape might be made of cotton you could use?  Stay away from plastic backed adhesive tape.  You can use these same  tapes to insulate between each layer of the windings.  I think cotton backed adhesive tapes are still out there somewhere?

You are still thinking along the lines that the process is a battery.  You are letting the patent description making you think it is a battery, electrolytes and all that other stuff about batteries.  It is not a battery.  The patent office made him call it a battery because they could not understand how it worked.  Even showing it place in a metal container with electrolyte.  The battery stuff was added to get the patent.  Do not let this confuse you.  The metal container has its place I will get to later.  For now we need to get results based on res circuit principles.  If we can't get resonance to work, then I am steering you all down the wrong path.

All
Maybe I am confusing you with trying to learn about res circuits on the surface instead of working with an inductor buried in the ground ala NS EB?  Perhaps it is a better idea for someone to volunteer to bury an old transformer in the ground and let us see what happens?  Or, wind a coil around an old bolt and bury it.  That person should have a scope so we can see volts and freq the coil or primary circuit picks up.  Any volunteers?  We will try and learn step by step as NS would have done to evolve the EB.  In other words, let us explore the earth as an inductor.  Not as a battery and not as a capacitor.

Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on November 11, 2009, 07:45:05 AM
 :)hello everyone, I just made a small Stubblefield coil, core I used was 4 pieces of thick galv - wire taped together, i covered copper wire with a thin lining from inside of old pair of track pants or parachute pants, and iron wire wrapped along side of covered copper wire, length of turns about 6 inches, total of 1.5 layers, DMM leads to copper and iron wire, dry I got .6 -.7v and wet I got .74v and  1 mA, about the same when DMM connected to copper and core, just a small test one with not much current !
Is'nt this really just a battery when you wet it ?????

Also I have found a site that sells double cotton covered copper wire !  Is this any good ???
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 11, 2009, 07:48:08 AM
tishatang:

Thank you for the information.  I don't know if you have seen this video of mine or not but, if you watch this, a few minutes in you will see the 3 different waves all mixed together.  This was taken with my scope hooked to the electrodes in the ground:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjBAU4HAMfs

What does not show up too well, but can be seen, is the spikes appearing all over the scope.  This went off the scale from the top, to the bottom of the screen.  These spike are what I believe charges my supercap well beyond what the measured output of my electrodes is.

When I get a chance, I will make another video and try to isolate these wave forms a little better.

Again, just to be clear, this was right off of my electrodes...no supercap and no JT circuits were involved.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 11, 2009, 09:08:52 AM
@ jeanna,
Thank you for those remarks, it was a fluke I was using my camera when the jump occurred, I will keep my eyes open and see if it happens again.

@freepow,

:)hello everyone, I just made a small Stubblefield coil, core I used was 4 pieces of thick galv - wire taped together, i covered copper wire with a thin lining from inside of old pair of track pants or parachute pants, and iron wire wrapped along side of covered copper wire, length of turns about 6 inches, total of 1.5 layers, DMM leads to copper and iron wire, dry I got .6 -.7v and wet I got .74v and  1 mA, about the same when DMM connected to copper and core, just a small test one with not much current !
Is'nt this really just a battery when you wet it ?????

Also I have found a site that sells double cotton covered copper wire !  Is this any good ???
Welcome to the stubblefield research club  :D yep, at least you got something, and congrats too, hows the fingers?

Sites or shops that sell cotton covered wire are like hens teeth, I would be very interrested as I am sure others would be also.
Just post the http address so we all can go on a looksee.

@ Bill,
I have been working on EBR software all day, got a few bugs ironed out, got 2 more screens working, I will forward it to you shortly if the Install Creator has compiled it correctly.
I will test the install on my own machine before I send it to you.


@tishatang,
As always, this theory is excellent, I betta get my shuvle and go for a dig and plant me a jucy trannie, (how about a MOT for starters or is this too big), how deep does it need to go?
Lights fadein in my neck of the woods, almost 6pm, so it'l have to wait till tomorra sometime.

@mw383,
Good to see you survived your travels and are back witih us again, you've been missed.

@ALL,
Has anyone come across cosmicgnaler? in their travels on OU or other free energy type sites? Got my reasons for asking.

jim

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 11, 2009, 09:22:35 AM
"@ALL,Has anyone come across cosmicgnaler? in their travels on OU or other free energy type sites? Got my reasons for asking.jim"   

Yes, I have seen him  around and he has commented on some of my Youtube videos.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on November 11, 2009, 09:56:22 AM
Hello again...
 
@Jim

I sent an E-mail to this place in the UK, to see if the cotton covered copper wire is bare copper or tinned or enamled copper wire with cotton around it, so I will see what they say, anyhow here is the link for you and everyone ! 
Oh and yes I got a little sick of wrapping the material around the copper, but I guess it has to be done !
Was'nt many turns either but still got some power out of it, but when you wet a stubblefield or moisten it...is'nt that practically a battery ?????????????

 http://www.wires.co.uk/acatalog/dcc_wire.html

Hope its bare copper wire underneath !!!
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on November 11, 2009, 11:47:31 AM
 :) :) :) Good news !!! I got a reply, here it was it says...

Sir,
Our listed DCC is Double Cotton on Bare Copper wire . But we can produce
Silk or Cotton on Enamelled or Tinned.

Best Regards

Ray
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 11, 2009, 11:57:24 AM
@ Bill,
Thankyou, I will take a look see there shortly mate

@freepow,
Good work, you should team up with Bill, make a super investigator out of you yet  ;)
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: IotaYodi on November 11, 2009, 03:30:50 PM
FYI
http://cgi.ebay.com/600-FEET--DOUBLE-COTTON-COVERED-ESSEX-19-GA-COPPER-WIRE_W0QQitemZ250527632911QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20091109?IMSfp=TL091109204006r22653

High dollar for old wire. Makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: MW383 on November 11, 2009, 05:25:55 PM
Manufacturer that will do cotton insulated copper wire.

Paramount Wire Co.
2-8 Central Ave.
East Orange, NJ 07018
Phone: 973-672-0500
http://www.parawire.com/index.html

Basically one needs to order a custom version of what they term as stem wire. In our case it will be a custom order because we want the cotton insulation over bare copper wire and we want a large continuous length of it, not the short pieces of their standard stem wire. Minimum order quantity is 250ft roll. Cost = USD $0.50/ft. They will make you whatever you want basically. My own personal choice was 18ga bare copper with cotton insulation. This created an outside diameter that was close to what my 16ga iron wire was.

I can personally attest to this wire being acceptable for use in the Stubblefield construction (just bare copper and cotton insulation, no other materials that would inhibit electrolytic reactions. It is indeed expensive but it will fit the bill. You will like building coils with this because of less overall hassles.

Tishitang,
I remain aware of resonant inductive system here and am dedicated to building an understanding of the principles you are mentioning. As a former battery industry person this system is indeed a non-performer all by itself. The only part of the electrochemical aspects I am concerned with deal with the ability to easily pick up earth charges. This is my basis for good electrolytic pathways and making sure iron winding can interface with earth well. So other than a few constructional aspects, the voltaic part of the system is secondary in my mind. In a tuned system (resonance, etc...) I see this system being able to pick up a lot of earth charges and that the charges will attach themselves via voltaic system, probably very near to iron. Copper-Iron will do about 1volt in practice no matter what we do, but earth charges entering system should increase current and will probably do so in a gradual buildup as Stubblefield describes. The EB's I have in ground have been steadily building current since install about a month ago. Once we have higher current, we can play lots of games with inductive secondary system, resonance, frequencies, etc.... I see your theories really coming into play at this point. I think that you are really on to these aspects of the system. Your suggestion to ground experiment at this point is best approach. We need to get you some data.

other activities.... I have found a manufacturer of a simple variable square pulse generator. A nifty little kit that may be useful in ground experiments. Frequency adjustable 3Hz-870Khz by changing capacitors. Pulse width also adjustable 0-100%. Board itself will have to be externally powered 9-12vdc (a 9V battery will do). One can then attach seperate power source (like Stubblefield Primary) 0-50vdc and manipulate via frequency / duty cycle adjustments. Board will handle 10A which is more than enough for simple ground experiments. It will at least enable high speed switching of primary in very tunable fashion. For a non-electronics person this may be the easiest way for me to become more useful. I think I might buy one...

, MW383




Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 12, 2009, 12:36:45 AM
@ALL

Excellent work by those who have found suppliers of cotton covered wire, well done everyone.

This morning in bed I was thinking about how would it be possible to see the waves of electrical energy as it is passing by a section of the earth.

Then I thought, if we poke a nail in the earth and read on the DMM its voltage, why not use the same principle in a instrument to display the voltage on a LED, the higher the output from the nail, the harder the transistor turns on, the brighter the LED gets.

I can dream up a small 2 transistor circuit, powered by a 12v gell cell to do this.
Then just make 100 of these circuits, each triggered seperatly by seperate earth energy feeds, which turn on their own LED as the wave passes under a zinc nail in the earth.

I was thinking the probe to be a long piece of thin wood, with zinc or galv nails poking through at 1" up to 12" intervals, (between nails, not depth), connect each nail to the base of a transister, the 12v entering in the Collector, the Emittor output driving a LED. Make an array of 100 LEDs on a base, then see if a wave passes through the LEDs.
 
It would have to be refined a bit more than that, by limiting resistors to set brightness across all leds so they are equilly bright, and voltage/current limiting, but I don't see any big difficulties.

If this works, great, if it dosent, well nothing lost.
   
Just had another thought, could a tiny coil be used as the sensor in place of a nail, magnetic field sensor?

Easiest way to assemble this would be to glue all the transistors upside down on the wooden strip board, then solder the parts above them, the wood becomes a heatsink (poor one) lol.

What does everyone think?

@tishatang,
This morning, I will make a start on the transformer in the ground experiment, I will need 3 MOTs, (I want to pulce one and see what happens on my scope to the others) 3 plastic bag, 4 sets of extension cords (already got 5 passing through the kitchen window) ha ha, and a shuvle .
The MOTs and bags are no problem, the extension cords are, got to scrounge around home a bit.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Cosmicfarmer on November 12, 2009, 04:07:52 AM
Hello just popping in, I should read this forum more! I am left in the dust alot still on page 64!

Anyway just wanted to chat and explain what I did.

I made 4 diode bridges connected to both ends of my ground.  Reading Dr Stiffler's Spatial Energy X shows him with some impressive ground charge rates, and all he did was take a single ground and 2 diodes to each side of cap. so I thought if I had 4 diodes and 2 grounds, and took the difference like that, using the RF diodes INxx48's that I should get some good charge rates.

This junction allows 4 caps to be charged simontaniously.  I put one in for a day and it was raining bad. the bad vibes were out today and all I got was .642 volts on the 650farad caps.  I read something like .670 at the 12 hour mark and at the 24 was reading the lesser number.

basic electronics question ---- Do I need a high resistance acrost the cap to charge it better?


So I am thinking should I trade the RF diodes fast switching speed for the germanium's low current useage?  I dont have a big pile of geraminums around ...

But it is charging, however to go past a volt might take better rod positioning, more patience, or a better diode setup?  I thought that since both grounds have alternating signal that both could possibly be a + or - depending on the cycle or whatever, so I thought a bridge would be good, however I dont know..  Is there tweaking I can do by raising and lowering rods? Its rainy now so ill do it later.

thanks, talk to you later. 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on November 12, 2009, 04:32:13 AM
Hi cosmicfarmer,

I had the very same problem only with less than 4 diodes (I do not recall) all I got was 0.359v so you are way ahead of me with 0.6v
Anyway 0.6v is what the earth gives depending on the probes.
I am not talking about the 40 lb mag block and 2 fluted carbon rods here  ;), just some probes in the ground.

Do you know exactly what Dr Stiffler has for his arrangement?

I concur with tishatsang's way to find the best place in your back yard. (after you have learned what you can from Bill's earth site.)

Do you know how to make a simple galvanometer?

If you do maybe someone else does not, so here goes:

Start with a cheap but biggish 2 inch diameter compass.
Using some RS red mag wire, wrap about 60 turns around the north south line of the compass.
You can't get this to be straight, so you overlap to the right at the north and coming up from the bottom overlap to the left on the south. Either direction of overlap works, just be consistent. You will end up with a thick middle.

Be sure to leave longish like 18 inches for leads and , of course, sand the ends. You will need to add alligator clips to this too, but you will see a movement when there is some voltage.

The problem with this is the ac that rides atop the dc, so there will be some fluttering. Pay no attention to that for this. (I think)

This kind of instrument is exactly what NS would have used. (not for dowsing, but for seeing the voltage)

It is verrry sensitive and if you touch it to the ends of a battery you will see.
The needle whips around hundreds of times before it settles to one side or the other, always the same angle for the same amount of current going through the wires.
One way for pos other way for neg.
It is the original analog volt meter.

I am glad to see you around again.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 12, 2009, 04:32:24 AM
Cosmicfarmer:

I don't know enough about Dr. Stiffler's latest work to be of much help here.  I did just want to point out that, if the charge you are getting on that big cap is anything like what I am getting, you will have a bunch of amps in there as well.  I'll bet if you took that cap at .642 volts and linked it to a JT circuit, you could light an led for weeks.

Your set-up is quite different from mine so this may not be correct.  I really love these big caps.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 12, 2009, 06:34:01 AM
@tishatang,

As I mentioned yesterday I would get involved with your MOT in the ground experiment.

I got a MOT from the MOT stack (12 of em, + more outside) and dusted the cobwebs off it.
Spent a couple of hours outside looking for redundant extension leads, found a few, cut the sockets and plugs off them.

Soldered the ends of the extension leads to the MOT, put the MOT in 3 plastic shopping bags, dug a hole and planted it.
Threw the ends of the extension leads through the "open" kitchen window, (powered by its own car electric wiper motor (bragging rights lol)), then dragged theends to the work bench. Put 6 small alligator clips, one to each wire.

Here are the pickies, the explanations and questions are later on.

1737, 1740, 1742= MOT being turned into something it is not supposed to be and stuck in de dirt.

1743= 1st time I hooked the MOT to the BWD115 CRO, lots of activity seen, it's all frequency folks, 2 DMMs showed NO voltage, not even mv.

1744= Stuck a 1N4004 diode in series with the output and got this.

There will be 2 TWV next, see you at the flicks. :D
jim
 
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 12, 2009, 06:43:26 AM
@all

Its video time folks

1st TWV showing the waveform as I saw it the first time I connected the scope up to the underground MOT.

Lots of activity here, haven't got a clue to what is causing it, I checked the scope, and the green line went horizontal so scope is OK. I recommend someone else do the same to verify this result.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 12, 2009, 06:50:42 AM
@all,
2nd video time

Here is the same output, but I placed a 1N4004 diode in series with the output.

All the spikes you will notice are upward, there is a lot of wobbling going on between spikes.

If I reversed the diode, the spikes inverted.

Still no voltage whatsoever.

OK tishatang, whats next! ;D

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: jeanna on November 12, 2009, 07:52:19 AM
jim,
The second video is the same as the first!

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: nightshade on November 12, 2009, 07:55:13 AM
electricme

thats a nice idea using the transformer as a set of probes nice and compact and

could be a way of using that transformer as an earth receiver as well ;  )

keep  on tinkering

                               shane
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 12, 2009, 08:02:42 AM
Jim:

I think I have an idea why no volts and just freq.  Your MOT is in the ground but it is not grounded itself.  To complete the circuit, I think maybe one lead from the MOT needs to be attached to a rod in the ground.

Just a thought.  I hope you are well my friend.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on November 12, 2009, 09:49:08 AM
 :) @ All

I want to charge my 1-F Cap from an EER (EB), do I just connect cap + to EB + and cap - to EB - ???
or do I use a diode etc.??
please could someone explain the best way to do this, thanks.
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 12, 2009, 10:13:45 AM
@ jeanna,

jim,
The second video is the same as the first!

jeanna

I posted the 1st video, then did the second without checking the 1st one, then remembered, went back and checked the 1st.
Found the jpg numbers were wrong, changed it, saw it was OK.
Went away for an hour or 2, came back and saw it was back as it orig was. hmmm.

Anyway, I have re-done it again, it took much longer to replace than before though.
Thanks jeanna for letting me know.

jim

@All,
I just blew a diode on the MOT, ha ha.

I just shuved a 12v DC pulce through the primary of the MOT, the display on the scope changed, so I disconnected the scope, placed the secondary output wires 1mm apart and did it again.
Got a jucy blue spark to jump the gap, no wonder the diode fried.

Tought me a lesson, I betta wear rubber gloves mucking around this thing, this MOTs got energy when it fires up. 8)

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 12, 2009, 10:23:23 AM
@nightshade

electricme

that's a nice idea using the transformer as a set of probes nice and compact and

could be a way of using that transformer as an earth receiver as well ;  )

keep  on tinkering

                               shane
Thanks shane, but this was tishatangs idea, not mine, he asked for volunteers to help out with this experiment, so I stuck my hand up. :D

You just might be right about the magnifier effect though, (waiting for the MOT to magnify), I went to a site last night where someone gets better radio reception by sticking the aerial to earth and sticking earth to aerial connection, seems to pull in distant stations, overtime they all crowd together and its just so much noise.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 12, 2009, 10:29:33 AM
@ Freepow

:) @ All

I want to charge my 1-F Cap from an EER (EB), do I just connect cap + to EB + and cap - to EB - ???
or do I use a diode etc.??
please could someone explain the best way to do this, thanks.

We need to know what the 1-F caps voltage is, and what the voltage your EEB is.

General rule is you need a higher voltage supply than what the 1-F caps rating is.

jim
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: freepow on November 12, 2009, 11:52:19 AM
@ Jim

My cap is 5.5v, my EER is only 1 cell at about .8-.9v, 3 mA
Title: Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
Post by: electricme on November 12, 2009, 02:02:19 PM
@ freepow

@ Jim

My cap is 5.5v, my EER is only 1 cell at about .8-.9v, 3 mA

Right oh, well you can try it but I don't think you will achieve charging the 5.5v cap.

I think you are going to have to make up extra EERs, at the very least 5 more, even better, make 15 of them.

Then connect them in series, insulating each cell with insulation tape.

--------------------------------

Whats happening is this.
You have this huge cap to fill, but the bucket to fill it is just too small, but it will fill the cap, only to the electrical preassure of .9 volt MAX, (see big water tank drawing) anything over this with your current setup will be done by spikes.

So we need to up the "preasure" some what.
To do that, we can do it in a couple of ways.

1/ make more cells, (at least 6 cells) and connect them in series, if you get 15 cells in series, all the better.
2/ 6 cells, each cell about a 15 inches long. So we use volts and a bit more amps to do the job.

I have a couple of these 5.5 volt caps here, I wasnt real happy with their performance.

jim