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Author Topic: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments  (Read 285558 times)

tishatang

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #645 on: October 26, 2009, 07:18:13 AM »
Jeanna and all

Here are some links to basic stuff re resonant circuits.

http://www.vias.org/basicradio/wrapnt_resonant_circuits39.html

Click on series and parallel resonance circuits and also on Q to get an understanding of the subject.

Parallel circuits that have variable tuning have been used since before the crystal radio was invented.  This raises the feeble input by factor equal to the Q of the circuit assuming zero losses.
this means that if the EB is putting out 1 volt and the Q of the circuit is 50, then you now have 50 peak volts at the resonant freq.  It is fairly easy to get a Q of 50 homemade circuits.  Using more sophisticated techniques can get Q of 200 and above.

For Freepow not to get higher readings indicates something is wrong.  These circuits work with only microwatts of power in radio reception and here with an EB, we have milliwatts of power, much more power to work with.  We just have to know the parameters to get it working.  To get no increase in voltage either the circuit was shorted out or a cheap meter was used that to get a reading, more power was sucked out than the circuit was capable of providing.  You must use a high impedance meter or a scope.  If the circuit was constructed wrong, maybe there was no Q to begin with?

We do not have to get into radio theory to try something out.  Find an old radio that has a variable air tuning capacitor and take it out of the radio.  Or, buy one on ebay or someplace.  If you want to work in the high freq range wind about 20 turns or so around the top of the carbon rod of the EB.  Continue to wind a bunch of coils coming out from the rod into the air before you connect the air capacitor to it.  Connect the other end of the cap to the metal rod in the ground.  You now have a parallel resonant circuit setup with variable tuning.  If you want to tap the low freq spectrum, wind the coils around the metal rod and use the carbon rod as the ground point.  Metal core coils will not allow high freq due to losses.

Notice that in the photos of Stubblefield, he has many turns of wire as a helix cable between the phone and other connections.  This is a high Q inductor.  I would guess the Q to be at least 200?  If the EB is a capacitor, then he has a High Q parallel resonant circuit that is tunable by unwinding coils off one end of the helix cable.  He probably has 30 volts available at the earphone if he does not load the system down too much?  Straightening the unwound coils changes the inductance thereby changing the freq of resonance.  I hope you understand what I am saying to get the picture in your mind?

I have somewhere a link to some crystal radio circuits that self power a transistor.  I think this will allow the ability to separate the load from destroying the resonance?  Maybe also to couple two EB's together?  At the very least to raise the input signal out of the noise to get decent scope readings.
Look to next post.


tishatang

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #646 on: October 26, 2009, 08:04:54 AM »
Here are links to free-power crystal radio circuits.

http://www.crystalradio.net/crystalplans/

Scroll down to #153 Free Power Radios.  Here is page two of three showing the circuits.  File too big to attach.  You will have to download.

http://www.crystalradio.net/crystalplans/xximages/Free2.JPG

Circuit two is said to be optimized for capturing 60 cycle  ambient energy.  Probably it is tuned to a harmonic of 60 hz?  Circuit three is to capture all stray energy.  I am not a circuit techie, so i cannot answer questions of a technical nature on how to hookup or modify anything.  All I can do is give a general idea.

The output is the headphone connections.  This will be our source for the scope or another EB.  Circuit three seems the best because it takes a portion of the output and feeds it back into the beginning giving a positive feedback to increase the power.  It might be possible to increase the feedback so that it goes into self-oscillating mode. 

As an experiment, I would suggest that we try and connect two EB's together by the following method.  Wind the inductor as a bifilar pair.  Maybe you can buy a small spool of two conductor speaker wire or lamp cord wire and slip the spool over the end of the rod in the ground.  An option would be to cut one side of the spool off and slip the coil of wire out of the plastic spool.  Then carefully wind some turns tightly around the rod and then splay out the rest of the coils to resemble the helix cable of stubblefield.  The two sets of rods in the ground will be coupled together by the mutual inductance of the bifilar coil.  One set of rods is parallel resonant and the other rod set is series resonant.  Tune them both to the same freq and see what happens.

Maybe we can raise both volts and amps?  Maybe one EB will prime the earth giving more power out of the second EB?

For those of you who are radio savvy, eliminate the diode that demodulates the signal making the circuit a radio.  This diode is converting the AC into DC and is throwing away half your power.

Hope this helps,
Tishatang

freepow

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #647 on: October 26, 2009, 10:18:24 AM »
 :) For those who have seen my graph of output power from my antenna+ground a few posts ago,
well usually it wont drop below 4.8 volts AC at night or early morning, well today Monday it was raining and I checked power output tonight(Monday-night-Australian-time) and output was very low at only...
 3.9 volts and .02 mA, why I have no idea, must be something to do with the weather ?
Any comments ???
If it is recieving energy from power lines in our back yard...Then why would it drop that much just because it was a dull wet day ???

freepow

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #648 on: October 26, 2009, 10:27:16 AM »
My output has changed slightly from my EB, on Monday night... at .95 volts DC and rising slowly and
2.53 mA.

jeanna

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #649 on: October 26, 2009, 04:53:34 PM »
Wow tishatang,
I haven't even visited the links yet, and I want to thank you for that explanation.

My earth battery/Stubblefield combination is almost there, and I think you have pointed the way for me to get the volts/amps higher.
Now, I need to go find out what Q is again!  :D

thank you,

jeanna

MW383

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #650 on: October 26, 2009, 06:23:14 PM »
My output has changed slightly from my EB, on Monday night... at .95 volts DC and rising slowly and
2.53 mA.

I have a very small EB of similar construction that is showing about .75VDC, 3ma, and 1.5VAC. It is only a 6" piece of copper and zinc nail so it will never set records in energy potential. It is still useful for observational purposes though, especially frequency aspects.

Other news.....
My latest frequency experiments involve running a 25-50KHz inductive field through the ground in parallel to the natural magnetic field vector for my location. This device really intended to generate eddy currents on a dead shorted 'secondary' but it is what I am using none the less. I am not wild about these particular frequencies but it is what I am limited to with my setup. I have a bifilar voltaic coil in the vicinity that I am observing for any changes in output (above what I know it to do statically). This is basically an experiment aimed at talking with the ground, or at least electrical component of it. If anything, it is more sophisticated than some of the other experiments I have running. As far as resonant circuits (mentioned a few posts back), this test setup utilizes them in conjunction with potential high amp draws associated with its design. Again, not optimal deal here but being utilized anyway for experimentation purposes only.

cheers.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2009, 08:29:00 PM by MW383 »

Cosmicfarmer

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #651 on: October 26, 2009, 10:49:23 PM »
Hello, this is just a question I had to ask because I did not know who else would know :-)

I would like to charge a 6volt with a fuji CFL circuit, but instead of the CFL, have the battery being charged. Would the high voltage harm the battery, or desulphate it? like the SSG does? Same procedure, almost... charge an inductor and put the collapse in battery...

Would it matter if I put 6v or 12v SLA over the ~500v fuji output?

Or even a joule theif, if one could be made big enough. Has someone charged a 6v or 12v with a joule theif? If someone knows of any references I could use them.

Thanks. Just trying to design a battery charger powered from ground rod. Has anyone done that yet?

Pirate88179

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #652 on: October 26, 2009, 11:14:49 PM »
Cosmicfarmer:

Others, that know more than I, can respond but I would think you would have to step that Fuji output down.  Of course, when you do, there will be losses but if you don't, I think it will destroy a battery in quick order. 

Why not charge a series of supercaps and dump them to the battery?  Maybe something like 5 supercaps (650 farad) at 2.7 volts each=13.5 volts.  I believe this would be safer and very doable.  I can charge a 9 volt battery from my EER/supercap/Bedini motor set-up.

Bill

electricme

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #653 on: October 27, 2009, 06:14:15 AM »
@ freepow,

Thanks Bill,  Is it a worth while persuit to harness power from power lines or is it better to stick with EB's?

 ;D  well, there is no law saying we carnt harness stray electrical energy, after all, if it has 50Hz or 60Hz, it is all paied for as far as I can see, so the tric is to filter out those frequencies with a notch filter so you ban them from the rest of the system, so they carnt come back and screem you steeeeeling power.

OK, now I have a few more pages to read up before I get to the last post.

@jeanna and frepow,

I think tishatang means this.
Pull a multi gang capacitor  (tuner) out of a old radio, tube or valve type, then make up a tank circuit like we did on the joule thief forum.
There is in this case 2 capacitors at play here, a fixed value cap and a variable capacitor, it has aluminium plates, one set is fixed to chassis/earth, the other is variable and dissappears in or out between the plates by a tuneing knob.

The output goes to a sensitive volt meter or galvo meter.

Is this right tashtang? does my drawing come close?
dont worry jeanna, I dont know 4 sure lol. ::)
 

jim
 

electricme

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #654 on: October 27, 2009, 07:50:52 AM »
@mw383

I have a very small EB of similar construction that is showing about .75VDC, 3ma, and 1.5VAC. It is only a 6" piece of copper and zinc nail so it will never set records in energy potential. It is still useful for observational purposes though, especially frequency aspects.

Other news.....
My latest frequency experiments involve running a 25-50KHz inductive field through the ground in parallel to the natural magnetic field vector for my location. This device really intended to generate eddy currents on a dead shorted 'secondary' but it is what I am using none the less. I am not wild about these particular frequencies but it is what I am limited to with my setup. I have a bifilar voltaic coil in the vicinity that I am observing for any changes in output (above what I know it to do statically). This is basically an experiment aimed at talking with the ground, or at least electrical component of it. If anything, it is more sophisticated than some of the other experiments I have running. As far as resonant circuits (mentioned a few posts back), this test setup utilizes them in conjunction with potential high amp draws associated with its design. Again, not optimal deal here but being utilized anyway for experimentation purposes only.

cheers.

About the dead shorted secondary, put a 3AG glass fuse as the connection short.
If this fuse blows (upon successful experiment) it will give you a close approximation of the juice you got out of it. Well you might be away from the experiment. ;)

In other words when you get your experiment to resonate (tuned) with telleric waves, at a certain point the fuse OCs and you have the sweet spot" where the energy is.

BTW following jpg is for mw383, I have a few more as well lol. :D


electricme

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #655 on: October 27, 2009, 08:08:02 AM »
@ Cosmicfarmer,

Bill and Jeanna know the most of fuji stuff from the Joule Thief forum.

If you delve into the beginning areas of that forum, its where this work was done.

Regarding the output power, the Fuji crt packs a wallop, so be careful what you touch, that said, put the output through a hi/lo turns transformer, rectify for DC and feed them pulses into the nicad.

As Bill says, be careful or you might fry the nicad.
I blown a few nicads up, bits of the inturnals fly apart with hyper speed and they sure made my ears ring    :o   when it happened, dont expect to answer the phone cause you wont hear anything  ;D

jim

tishatang

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #656 on: October 27, 2009, 09:43:13 AM »
@Electrime
Your drawing is half right.  Wished I knew about these drawing programs.  Getting too old to learn.  Anyway, in place of the fixed capacitor replace it with the inductor.  The inductor and the variable capacitor are in parallel between the aerial and ground.  The leads of the voltmeter are connected to the aerial and the ground rod.  You show it in series as if it were an amp meter.  The meter connections are correct if you were measuring amps with an amp meter using a series resonant circuit.  To make it series, connect the inductor to the ground rod, the other end to the var cap then to the amp meter then to the aerial.  If you are not using an aerial, then replace the aerial with the other rod in the ground.  Place a load like an led in series, and if we are lucky, it will light when we will hit a resonant freq as we slowly scan the freq band.   We change our freq band by making bigger or smaller inductors.  This is because variable air caps are limited in their range.  You could put another cap in series with the variable cap to change freq bands, but this complicates the basic simple circuit.  It is earsier to change the inductor size.  In radio, they use multi-tapped inductors to switch bands.

I am suspecting that the earth battery of stubblefield is acting as an active plate of a capacitor.  This is because in photos he is using very  long helix wound cables.  They do not have to be that long with so many turns.  The average person will think this is done for flexibility like a spiral corded telephone receiver to the base.  Try to picture his EB as a capacitor.  It is an active plate and the nearby ground rod is the other plate of the capacitor. His EB side is unbalancing the earth currents compared the the nearby ground plate of the earth capacitor.  The long  helix high Q inductor is connected to the EB and the nearby ground plate.  This is now a parallel resonant circuit.  Through trial and error, Stubblefield found a resonant freq to tap power from the earth.  He made the inductor long enough to be close to the resonant freq generated by the capacitance of the EB.  He fine tuned it by unwinding extra coils of the long helix inductor.  This is all speculation on my part by reasonable by observation of the photos.  Most have looked at his EB as an inductor/transformer.  But all componants have a capacitor part to them.  The whole EB can be looked at as part inductor and part capacitor.  I think the capacitor part has been ignored.  But the capacitor part makes sense if it is part of a resonant circuit.  The long inductor helix cable can form either a parallel or series resonant circuit depending on how it is connected to the capacitor part of the EB.

Stubblefield I believe used more than one ground rod?  Been a long time since I read about him.  Maybe between the EB and one ground rod the inductor helix cable was connected parallel to raise voltage, and between the EB and another ground rod the helix cable was connected in series to raise amps.  Maybe his secret was to connect them together somehow to generate his power?  Maybe one way to connect them together is with a bilar inductor as I mentioned in my last post.  To do this you need at least three ground rods.  Maybe one can be a common ground instead of two sets of two?

If we have existing ground rods with one volt and .oo2 amps available.  Then with a Q of 50, we have available 50 volts and .100 amps or 5 watts of power if we can combine the two setups.  We should be able to light a lot of led's with this 24/7.

The only instruments available to stubblefield in his day would be a compass and a galvanometer.  These would give him a sense of relative power.  As he experimented he would find the best combination of coil length to capacitor value to obtain the resonant freq of the earth currents.  A tuned resonant circuit only lets that freq in and amplifies it.  We have the advantage of freq counters and scopes.  From the observed data logging of this thread, we can design our components to end up with the best  freqs to extract power.

electricme

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #657 on: October 27, 2009, 10:31:46 AM »
@tishatang,

I hear you, no problems, getting to learn a CAD program is a big ask.
What I do is grab a sheet of paper, draw the circuit (or cartoon) then take my mobile phone and photograph it.
I plug the phone into the USB port, via its cable, use the phone program to save it to the PC.
I save the image to my hard drive, called mob ph photos, I go and look in the directory, check it out first before adding it as an attatchment when I click on the Browse button and select the jpg I want to post.

This I find is the easiest way to do things here.

I do know how to use a CAD program called TinyCAD which is a freebie, buut it takes me a fair while to use and the drawing over fills the screen, so I use a pencil and paper instead.

In regards to your post about inductors, I went and took a looksee at the web site address you posted, and saw my mistake, never mind it got me to thinking and I agree with you.

If there is energy flowing through the earth at say 7 cycles per second, then we need to setup a circuit that can sence each cycle and at the top of the cycle, hook into this energy as it passes the machinery designed to pick it up.

Your mention of coils in the whole setup, leading from each electrical point I had missed, you are right, the whole stubblefield setups are all interconnected this way, so it looks like I need to go and do a big rethink on all his stuff.

jim 

Cosmicfarmer

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #658 on: October 27, 2009, 06:27:57 PM »
I like Bill's idea with the caps. Trying to do 6v so I'll use 3, the only 3 that I have! Bwahaha! Brilliant! So, to charge them best, use fast switching diodes and use ground to cap? or should I have something else along side it, like a LED? 

I apologize for being so dumb. Last time I tried this I did an AV plug to LED and touched the AV plug to a copper pipe in the ground and the led turned on. Very dim.... had to be night time and you staring at the filament...

Also, how should I tune my earth battery? have a volt meter with me and raise or lower the poles?

That blown fuse trick sounds REALLY COOL.... Theres gotta be a standard good way for an idiot to tune a ground battery and something like that blowing up of a fuse when your in range sounds like a good example! However I am not currently using an active component with the ground.

I'm trying to find the magnetic angle of where I live, or if any lines are nearby.

Thanks!

Pirate88179

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #659 on: October 27, 2009, 07:06:47 PM »
Cosmicfarmer:

Here is a link to figure out your magnetic alignments for your area:

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/IGRFWMM.jsp

(Just in case you didn't have it already)  Just type in your zip code and it is easy.

Also, no one here was more dumb (ignorant) than me when I was starting out on this forum so don't apologize.  We are all in this together.

Bill