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Author Topic: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments  (Read 257297 times)

Offline Cosmicfarmer

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #945 on: August 19, 2010, 03:23:09 PM »
     I had to move and no longer have access to the ground. The move was fast and dirty and I don't have the results of my gigantic capacitor charging sheet, but I can tell you that I was able to acquire more joules using a single 650 farad capacitor then multiple. I think after a month of charging, I was only able to obtain .8 volts (2600 farad) when they were hooked together (additive, series), while I charged them in parallel. The charge speed dropped after .5 volts additive and was barely crawling for 3 weeks after that. My caps still have the charge still on them though, so I still have the essence of the ground with me.  Also my original plan of using a Stiffler exciter powered by a solar panel exciting the exterior of the capacitor would have only worked with the one cap. Sooo, I just need to miniaturize. Also a lower tech version of that could be wrapping a tin foil around the ground charge capacitor and hoisting a large airel connected to the external area of the cap. The differences in ground oscillation and air oscillations will excite the capacitor in a similar fashion as the stiffer oscillator would have. 


@FrozenWaterLab

!!!

That is alot of backbreaking , well documented work! I do confess that images would help but your time is better spent actually digging and whatnot, but the idea is clearly there. 

I got good results out of that honest 8 foot grounding rod as well, and yes it takes hard work getting it in. 

Looks like you had the most joules at the star arrangements of both + and - elements. Were they all depth tuned? That would take alot of work and someone else's hand to hold the meter while you wiggled the short one up and down.... Maybe depth tune one set at a time and then once all 3 sets are tuned, then link them in a star fashion. Also do you think that your results are based off of surface area (voltaic pile) or ground wave capture? Maybe the amps came from increased surface area while the higher-then-usual volts came from the groundwaves... Its hard to really tell... 


Some ideas for your airel antenna...  You can keep it the way it is and find the voltage difference between it and your large ground rod, Or make a JoeTate APM (ambient power module) and get a dozen volts at almost no amps, Or try my idea by connecting the exterior of a charging ground capacitor to the antenna (to accelerate the charging process) ,  Or if you wanted to make a better antenna that is flat, then instead of shining the metal, you should make it SCRATCHY! The micro spikes channel or funnel the energy a little better then a shiny surface (from what I hear), imagine a spike on top of a tesla coil , all the energy travels through the spike and mostly not anywhere else, same idea but a smaller scale. This idea works best when connected to the ground, as the flow is actually up and out. Hoist the flat metal antenna on a non conductor - wood or plastic, as a metal post will steal some of its power.

Good work and thanks for keeping the thread alive!

Offline FrozenWaterLab

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #946 on: August 21, 2010, 01:26:03 AM »
    I had to move and no longer have access to the ground. The move was fast and dirty and I don't have the results of my gigantic capacitor charging sheet, but I can tell you that I was able to acquire more joules using a single 650 farad capacitor then multiple. I think after a month of charging, I was only able to obtain .8 volts (2600 farad) when they were hooked together (additive, series), while I charged them in parallel. The charge speed dropped after .5 volts additive and was barely crawling for 3 weeks after that. My caps still have the charge still on them though, so I still have the essence of the ground with me.  Also my original plan of using a Stiffler exciter powered by a solar panel exciting the exterior of the capacitor would have only worked with the one cap. Sooo, I just need to miniaturize. Also a lower tech version of that could be wrapping a tin foil around the ground charge capacitor and hoisting a large airel connected to the external area of the cap. The differences in ground oscillation and air oscillations will excite the capacitor in a similar fashion as the stiffer oscillator would have.

@Cosmicfarmer[/glow]
Sorry to hear you had to up root.
Hope you will be able to continue soon.

@FrozenWaterLab
!!!
That is alot of backbreaking , well documented work! I do confess that images would help but your time is better spent actually digging and whatnot, but the idea is clearly there. 

I got good results out of that honest 8 foot grounding rod as well, and yes it takes hard work getting it in. 


I will be putting 3 of these in at the back of the house. (Ground rods for winter experimenting)
Along with more carbon at the bottom in holes.
For me in my area anyway I think distance between top and bottom of hole is best I can get.
So Neg laid flat on surface and carbon in bottom of hole. We shall see.
My inclination angle is 74 degrees almost up and down so I will run the neg's about 18" to south with 3' deep hole.
With the 8' dround rods I suspect best at about 3'-4' south. More testing soon.

Sad thing is I thought I would need the distance for better performance, so I put my first ones in the back corner of the lot. Bout 150' from the house. Don't relish running a conduit 18" down (Only way I'd put wires across the lot.)
But on the positive side there is a 60' to 80' Birch tree there to string an areal into. (Maby a run to the house also??? But I've berried all overhead in the past and don't relish one now) Maby a overhead to the shop peak along the fence line but thats an E-W run
Will put pics below.


Looks like you had the most joules at the star arrangements of both + and - elements. Were they all depth tuned? That would take alot of work and someone else's hand to hold the meter while you wiggled the short one up and down.... Maybe depth tune one set at a time and then once all 3 sets are tuned, then link them in a star fashion.


This I can do on my own and I want to try laying the Mg's flat about an 1" down next to each other.

Also do you think that your results are based off of surface area (voltaic pile) or ground wave capture? Maybe the amps came from increased surface area while the higher-then-usual volts came from the groundwaves... Its hard to really tell... 

I haven't drawn any conclusion as yet - If I were to comment right now I'd say a combination. I think there's more then just galvanic going on.
Surface area as apposed to Number of elements is the question I will address next. (say 2-1/2"x2"x15" slats one upright and one laid on bottom and 2-20ea 1/4" rod sets - upright and flat will be in same hole) Each with there own wire (One bare as I have dome so far and other insulated)
Another test is to put a Fiberglass trash can I have (16" wide and 24" deep) flush with ground) Set of elements inside (Also plastic buckets) for series hook up.
This is just the beginning of what I intend to look at.
I have an handheld 10mh O-scope on order as well as my 30mh and 50mh bench type, that I will be hooking up soon.


Some ideas for your airel antenna...  You can keep it the way it is and find the voltage difference between it and your large ground rod, Or make a JoeTate APM (ambient power module) and get a dozen volts at almost no amps, Or try my idea by connecting the exterior of a charging ground capacitor to the antenna (to accelerate the charging process) ,  Or if you wanted to make a better antenna that is flat, then instead of shining the metal, you should make it SCRATCHY! The micro spikes channel or funnel the energy a little better then a shiny surface (from what I hear), imagine a spike on top of a tesla coil , all the energy travels through the spike and mostly not anywhere else, same idea but a smaller scale. This idea works best when connected to the ground, as the flow is actually up and out. Hoist the flat metal antenna on a non conductor - wood or plastic, as a metal post will steal some of its power.


Could you supply a link to the Joe Tate APM you mention.
I also want to try a Roy Meyers' Absorber type set up.
I have 10-1F 5.5V super caps on order to begin in this direction and will be asking more questions then I'm sure. (I have another 10 around here someware but have misplaced them - Need a lab assistant haha)
I was thinking along the lines of what tesla said about the Raised Capp being shinny (did I remember that wrong?) But if it has been found better to have the scratchy surface ???? all the better. Whair from - your data? (More thread to read I bet) Please offer links if possable.

Good work and thanks for keeping the thread alive!
[/glow]

Thank You and likewise.
It takes time and the interest to actually get involved.
What we work on is small potatoes at this point. but free once set up 24/7.
Who knows what might become possible in the future?
If it isn't looked into Absolutely Nothing.

FrznWtr
PS That's an 10' stepladder so the branching I'd like to reach would be about 40' up from the surface.
Just one wire up to that point or up to that point and back down. OR
Might first go to a southerly tree and hoist the end then pull the middle so to speak up at this point.
Getting Pulleys up and secured is the trick.
Insulated wire or bare?  What dose anyone think? Suggestions?
« Last Edit: August 21, 2010, 02:26:37 AM by FrozenWaterLab »

Offline Cosmicfarmer

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #947 on: August 21, 2010, 06:16:40 PM »
I love the area your around, seems really peaceful.

Heres the link to the APM. 
http://www.rexresearch.com/tate/tate.htm
http://www.rexresearch.com/tate/00fig1.jpg
http://www.rexresearch.com/tate/00fig2.jpg

Its similar to the aptly named "FREE ENERGY FROM AIR" circuit, which is what started me down this path of experimentation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYYysBEwA6w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fuw2V0COEY

The second vid he just has 2 of them together.  To be honest its just a capacitive rectifier. He claims a better yield with a larger flatter antenna and a deeper ground.

I was able to "read" 11.4 volts from my single 8ft copper ground rod with the APM attached to it, however the instant a load was applied it went WAY down to about a volt. I had it in my garden. Nearby plants have a positive effect on ground power. I think my ground rod was either entrained, on a node, or blessed, but I always had stellar performance. Oscoping that ground rod gave me the coolest fractal wave pattern that I am beating myself up for not recording it... I made a video of a different ground and by that time my wife had got to my Oscope in a fit and the finer resolutions would not work....... However, it is interesting to use a LED as a load for the APM on a ground, and watch the quivering pulses that acure from the ground. Use fast switching diodes that do not consume alot of power like IN4148. Also the APM can rectify your bio-voltage to slowly charge a capacitor. The APM just really compares 2 oscillations and produces rectified filtered DC, much like a sensitive bridge rectifier.

I can't remember where I found about the scratched up ariel, I think it was relating to electroculture and assisting a tree to grow... But if Tesla said it, its gotta be true.   

Maybe what you could do to that poor tree is somehow monkey up it and wrangle a rope around the branch somehow. Or knot the end of a rope with a heavy metal chunk so you can make a centerfuge with your arm and the rope/"monkeys fist" to get it that high. Then you can hoist a metal sheet up using pulley action. You would also have to secure the bottom of the panel as well to prevent the wind from whipping it around too much. connect the metal sheet with an insulated wire to your devices through the ground. 

I think if you just throw a uninsulated wire around the branch, you will not be able to harvest much power because of leakage, and an insulated wire won't have much of an effect due to small contact to the environment.

If you can wire from treetop to treetop, uninsulated wire is the way to go, with insulation on its way down from the canopy. If its horizontal, then you can get away with just wire, but a vertical uninsulated wire might have the leakage.  Its all about potential differences based on height.

Your 1 farad caps should be big enough to fill up in a decent time. 650x4 is just too much for me right now.


Good luck!

Offline Cosmicfarmer

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #948 on: August 21, 2010, 06:30:23 PM »
...  I re read that APM page where it says it does not matter about the insulation.  Which is true if you wish to only harvest RF.  However there is a charge difference that is in the wind that you will be excluding by insulating the antenna. Triboelectric effect of air molecules rubbing against each other.  Also you might be at risk for lightning strikes with this setup, so disconnect your toys when it gets stormy, and maybe even short out the antenna to ground someone outside your house during these times.  Or make a spark gap down from the antenna to the ground, so when it does lightning the spark gap will be used instead of your circuit/house.  ::)

Offline FrozenWaterLab

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #949 on: August 22, 2010, 06:36:53 AM »
@Cosmicfarmer
Thanks
I had actually watched all Paul's videos last night by happening on his U-tube stuff
so is his real name Joe Tate? It appeared he was the initiator of the circuit. I will try this with the coils also.
I have an 8' copper coated ground rod driven in at an angle under that tree flush with the surface.
I see some helpful info for suspending the arial. I have about 1000' of gye wire. Thats 7 aluminum wires (Aprox. 14 gage ea. warped around a galvanized steel core  about 12 gage whole thing is 3/8"
I'd like to get some light cable through a chunk of garden hose up around the tree above that branch with a poly pulley on the end of it. (AND a rope through the pulley haha)
I have a set of tree spikes but don't relish using them on the trees in my yard.
I'm thinking about getting out my pitch arm for the monkey fist thing.
String then cord then rope, etc. etc.
From the shoppe roof to the tree and bend a corner and go to another tree towards the front of the lot
I'm pondering a connection in the middle of the wire as opposed to the end. Any ideas on that?
Haven't read the APM Doc. completely yet but will.
I wonder how that circuit would react between the Pos and neg of an Earth Batt.
He's using coils around his ground to get up to 120V but I don't see an intentinol RC circuit - I ponder adding an Variable Air cap. I have some so might try when I get that far.

We don't have much (And I mean almost non existent) Lightning here but a spark gap sounds good for safety sake.
Say what about that metal roof on my shoppe???? Prob too grounded but i'll be hooking it up as an experiment.
Tnks again for the links
FrznWtr

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #950 on: August 22, 2010, 06:56:41 AM »
Frozenwaterlabs:

This was the purpose, or one of the many purposes, that Jim (electricme) asked me to start this topic for him.

You have no lightning in your neck of the woods but....guess what?  It hits the earth thousands of times a minute somewhere on the planet 24/7.  So, if a lightning bolt hits south America and my data logger shows an increase...you get the idea?

We even speculated about earthquakes and other natural phenomena that we might see a correlation with in our data from all over the world and....just maybe...be able to predict an occurrence of some type of earth event prior to it happening.

I, as of yet, do not have a data logger on my EER.  But, if I did, and there was something happening across the world from me, I could look at the data and see if it registered here in some way.

Anyway, all of this was Jim's brilliant idea which we have not implemented as of yet.

But we should.

Best of luck with your experiments.

Bill

Offline FrozenWaterLab

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #951 on: August 22, 2010, 07:51:41 AM »
Frozenwaterlabs:


I, as of yet, do not have a data logger on my EER.  But, if I did, and there was something happening across the world from me, I could look at the data and see if it registered here in some way.

Anyway, all of this was Jim's brilliant idea which we have not implemented as of yet.

But we should.

Best of luck with your experiments.

Bill

Thats a thing I would enjoy in the future (Data Logger) but right now I'm in the basic stage (Still on P52) but for future-Yes.
I have both the earthquake and the Volcanic sites on my Bookmark bar.
We have lots of EQ's on a reg basis and volcanic activity from time to time.
That link CosFmr gave talks of that circuit being indicative of EQ's. Still need to study it completely.
Jim sent me his software stuff but I use a Mac (Got an old dell somewhere - have to dig it up)
The Mac is so much more stable I just hate the idea of messing in the PC swamp agine.
I have one of the new mac/PC laptops but don't know how to use it for that stuff yet. Going to learn though I guess.
I maybe need to learn spreadsheets for data gathering also. winter isent far off - good time for that stuff.
 Reading bout what tishatang & MW383 will come up with for the Resonance stuff. ElectricMe is going to stick some Transformers in the ground thats interesting also. I'll catch  up eventually.
FrznWtr

Offline electricme

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #952 on: August 22, 2010, 08:59:23 AM »
@Frozenwaterlabs,

If you wanted to get a wire very high, say from the tallest tree in your area, go and see someone in your local archery club (if there is one there) and ask them to shoot an arrow over the top of the tree, trailing a thin fishing line, from there you setup a nylon pully etc etc on the ground, then pull it all towards the top of the tree.

A lightning arrester can be made very easily by forming a small loop at the bottom of the wire, tying a granny knot then snip the wire at the loop end. Just bring both ends together until you have a 1 mm air gap, that should do it.

I have a very old fish finder chart logger here, it is a moving pen chart recorder, don't know if I can modify it to run with earth energy, don't even know if it will even work.
I'm going up to New Guinea for a 3 week holiday, I'm all packed ready to go, so I will be away from all the forums, it's going to be wonderful to go and visit my old country and see what has changed in 38 years.
jim

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #953 on: August 22, 2010, 09:16:01 AM »
Hey Jim, it works!  Pretty sad looking fish though.

Bill

Offline FrozenWaterLab

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #954 on: August 26, 2010, 02:42:35 AM »
Hi jim
This is the second time I;m trying to post a response.
Tried right after your post and now I see mine didn't work.

Good idea - I have a crossbow pistol so will have to design a free spooling fish line thing.
maybe just loose line on a spool with the end cut off. Just Hope I don't impail my tree with a bolt about 40' up.

Friend of mine suggested a nylon line over the branch and I shouldn't even need the pulley but I will probably use one anyway. I intend to start with a tree about 1/3 way from south west corner. Then go to the N-W tree I gave a picture of then East to the shoppe roof peak. Make a ridge plate to protect the crown cap and pull it taught with a comealong to some 4" posts I have beat 4' into the ground. (No concreat on these though - Hope they wont pull out.)

Not allot of lightning in Alaska but the simple spark gap for safety sounds like the way to go.

Hope the fish-finder works - would be an inexpensive way for us all maybe.

I'm also looking at my metal roof - have to hook it up and try. (That would be a nifty outcome if it worked)

Well I hope you enjoy your trip - don't forget yer camera.
Frznwtr


Offline FrozenWaterLab

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #955 on: September 03, 2010, 08:20:41 AM »
I went out to try the new handheld O-scope 10meg Velman, but noticed the Mg Ribbon I have and garbed couple rolls and the shovel.

Hooked Pos to the 8' Copper Grounding rod
Hooked Neg to Mg 12"x1' rod 5' away = 1.3V -  .36mA down to .33mA

Buried Mg Ribbon aprox. 3" deep in south direction

10' mG ribbon alone = 1.65V - .74mA DT .72mA
Ribbon & Rod = 1.6V - .72mA DT .7mA

25' of Rib = 1.69V - ? DT .85mA
Rod & Rib = 1.66V - ? DT .8mA

40' of Rib = 1.69V - .82mA DT .77mA
Rod & Rib = 1.64V - .88mA DT .76mA
Seamed to go down which didn't make me happy

At this point I thought to add everything in the area - So
40' Ribbon & 5'distant Mg Rod & 4Mg Rods 1'distant in star = ALL

To both copper Grnd rod & Carbon star as Positive = 1.6V -  ? DT 1.56mA

To the A-hole star Carbons = 1.58V - ? DT 1.62mA (Better then W/Grnd Rod)
more mA so decided to just use Carbon Star for Positive

65' to Carbon star - Neg-ALL = 1.636V - 1.96mA DT 1.7mA
65' to Carbon star Neg-Rib only = Not on notes

80' to Carbon star Neg-ALL = 1.65V - 1.89mA DT 1.68mA
80' to Carbon star Neg-Rib only = 1.774V - 1.71mA DT 1.5mA

94' to Carbon star Neg-ALL = 1.54V - 1.96mA DT 1.65mA
94' to Carbon star Neg-Rib only = 1.7V - 1,6mA DT 1.44mA

Added Mg 1'x1" Rod at end of ribbon
94' to Carbon star Neg-ALL = 1.58V - 2.2mA DT 1.7mA
94' to Carbon star Neg-Rib only = 1.72mA DT 1.45mA

Volt's less but Amp's at load better with all Neg elements I can use.
Need to add Ground Rod and try (Tomorrow)

Also want to add some ribbon off in an E-W direction
and a spiral ring around a tree in the roots
Just to see what can be picked up

Then theirs the poss wire to run
I've got no more North direction (Less I sneak over the fence just for a test run then remove it) its a vacant lot and I know who owns it so it'll be OK

But I will be running to the East with a 12 gage wire and an 18 gage in the same hole about 2" apart 3" deep maybe

Might need to do test with deeper wire but boy that would be some work
(If I ever get a new motor for that trencher I have - It will dig a 2' deep trench)

First time to play with O-scope (Not happy with display but it might just be me learning how to use it)
 cant get a large display of signal.

Couple of pics
method of burial
Run along fence (Magnetic N-S oh well)
2 scope shots caught a spike and basic wave

FrznWtr
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 09:12:06 AM by FrozenWaterLab »

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #956 on: September 03, 2010, 03:53:06 PM »
Frozen:

Nice work man.  Hey, here is just a thought for you.  I saw that fence in your photo that you are running along side of and...well...why not tie into that as well?  There is a galvanized coating on the fence posts that go into the ground about 2 foot or more and the coating is really zinc.  So, tie all the fence in with your - side and see if your mA's increase.  My guess is that they will...and maybe a lot.  That is a lot of material in the ground and it might be worth a quick try with some test leads and clips.

Bill

Offline FrozenWaterLab

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #957 on: September 03, 2010, 04:18:37 PM »
Frozen:

Nice work man.  Hey, here is just a thought for you.  I saw that fence in your photo that you are running along side of and...well...why not tie into that as well?  There is a galvanized coating on the fence posts that go into the ground about 2 foot or more and the coating is really zinc.  So, tie all the fence in with your - side and see if your mA's increase.  My guess is that they will...and maybe a lot.  That is a lot of material in the ground and it might be worth a quick try with some test leads and clips.

Bill

Good Idea Bill. Talk of not seeing the forest for the trees in the way.
I did test from the fence to my carbons in the past but it was low.
I haven't tried with the whole new grouping though - didn't think of it.
Also will try on both ends of the ribbon and both at same time that kinda thing.

I'm going to dig another trench 1' from that one. Lay in the ribbon and pore dolomite on it before berrying it to test both Jeanna's power conduit theory and see how much two neg wires close together add.
IF the mg wire disintegrates while being used in this way??????
Also want to try a spiral and lateral E-W runs.
That one took 3 rolls now one more like it and a lat 1/2 way and one at the end and the spiral
I need to order again.

Thats what is nice about a think tank - more Ideas.

FrznWtr

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #958 on: September 03, 2010, 06:47:14 PM »
FrznWtr:

Hey, ideas are everything.  I think of Stefan's entire website (OU.com) as a think tank.  I have learned so much and have had a lot of great suggestions from other members here.  Together, we just might do something great.

Keep up your excellent experiments.

Bill

Offline FrozenWaterLab

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #959 on: September 04, 2010, 08:48:56 AM »