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Author Topic: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments  (Read 255562 times)

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #885 on: December 02, 2009, 08:00:19 AM »
@ all,

Here is a real quickie circuit I just drew up which is all components in relation to the Bedini, MOT transformer, the MOT cap and the mercury vapor lamp.
Only the outside glass envelope is broken, the glass inner tube arrangement is intact.
Anyway, it something I did today, at least I did something ehhhh. lol

jim

Jim:

I have no idea what might be going on with your circuit but I believe you have your diode between the emitter and base reversed as drawn.  If it helps, here is my crude Bedini circuit.  Jeanna once told me mine was wired differently but I used Introvertabrate's schematics from Youtube, all 3 of mine work well but, I am no Bedini expert so maybe mine and his are wrong?

Bill

Offline electricme

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #886 on: December 02, 2009, 01:06:01 PM »
@ t3t4

Ha ha, what have we here, I read this and went away for an hour and watched TV for a while before making a reply.

Far be it for me to want or to try and ruffle any feathers, but I have to disagree here just a bit, so please take it for what it is, a simple disagreement.

Just because an instrument responds to either AC or DC does not mean that it plays favorites, nor does it mean that said equipment can only do one or the other. But for the sake of science here, we have to conclude one or the other. In "every" DC component, there is an AC counterpart! Science may say one thing, but the facts speak volumes about something else. So you guys have to make the call either way, but when dealing with a scope, you have a say and you have a choice if you know how to use either one of the three...

Knowing how to properly use an oscilloscope is a great beginning to a final end result. I'm not saying that I'm any kind of a master, but I get the very distinct impression that most of you don't really know how to use a scope, let alone how to properly set one up, let alone the bandwidth required to even begin to take a proper measurement. I can pretty much tell you all from experience here, if your not in the 500MHZ to the 1GHZ range, then your all way too low on bandwidth for a true reading. Myself included!

How do I know?

Cause I have compared my TEK 2235 against many others with greater bandwidth, and the difference does not take contact lenses to see.

Just food for thought so take it for what it is.

But when dealing with DC, you will always have an AC counterpart due to induction if nothing else, but when dealing with AC, you still have caps, so DC is again a counterpart. Sooo... beat it if you can, but then show me how, cause I see no way around it! I have tested and proven, so I hope some of you can prove me otherwise wrong. Until then, I say what I say because of what I have seen. I can do no more or less then that!

But either way, the waves of this world are in a constant state of flux, but magnetic flux is the point, if you ask me that is. So how do you measure it properly?

Thanks,
t3t4

Thank you for you detailed post, and I'm glad you have the experience in the usage of using scopes.

You are right when you mention the setting up of a scope, (I assume you mean the setting up of the probe itself) before making measurements.
There is the probe for instance, it must be adjusted for correctness, else we get an incorrect reading.

And it's nice or fortunate that you have access to the best scopes that money can buy.

Some of us on overunity are not well off, and I mean, our incomes just don't allow us to buy the equipment we would just love to have, all we can do is drool over the brochures we may see from time to time.

I am an Invalid Pensioner, I did my back in when I was 3 years old, because no one ever told my parents to say to me, don't lift any big shiny rocks.

Soooo for at least 5 decades, I have not had the money to go and buy what I would really need in life.
I have had to scrounge, ask with cap in hand at times, just to get by.

I was given an old B&W 511 oscillope about 18 years ago by a very kind person, I didn't ask the chap to give it to me, he offered it to me, and I was very greatfull. (The same person gave me my first computer)

Last weekend in town I came across another B&W 511 oscillope, (yes, it's the same model), I got it for $5.

About 7 years ago my 1st scope was playing up, I asked a chap to repair it if he would, and he did (grudgingly).
Yesterday it was still playing up (same fault) so I took it apart and replaced a very old leaky 100uF 65volt capacitor with a (second hand) 100uF 150v cap, it now works better than it did before.
You see, I live way inland in Australia and there are no electronic supply shops just 10 minutes down the road.
I do need a circuit of it, the closest I can find is one for a B&W 520, why? because the old bit of junk I got last weekend wont work in the vertical section, and after about an hour it looses the blue line so that is temperature related.

So t3t4, we all struggle, and I do apologise to you for not having the instruments that you "expect" me or the "others" on this forum to have on hand.
I could speak with some conviction that most everyone I know on OU hasn't got a spare couple of thou to spend on a top of the range scope.

But some how, my meagre pension just doesn't allow me to buy all the best shiny lab stuff money can buy, let alone go away on a nice holiday like most comfortable or well off people can do each year, or to get a car fixed, etc etc.

So I stay at home, use slow old Dial up, put up with public hospitals and doctors, rude dentists that only will see you when you have tooth ake, eat crappy food that isn't good for my gut, and it alters my mood swings. Grrrrr I can feel righteous anger coming on lol

But those who do know me can vouch I would give to them what I can, and I have done so.

So if there are any hidden frequencies hiding above the 10 Mhz scale my poor old cro carn't see, they will just have to keep on being hidden, unless santa (t3t4) offers to fill the stocking this christmas, or joins this group.

So in you own words, "please take it for what it is, a simple disagreement".

@ALL
here is the B&D511 scope with the cover removed, if anyone has any idea where I can get a circuit, please send me the details TA muchly

jim

Offline the_big_m_in_ok

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #887 on: December 02, 2009, 04:12:01 PM »
@ all,
Here is a real quickie circuit I just drew up which is all components in relation to the Bedini, MOT transformer, the MOT cap and the mercury vapor lamp.
Only the outside glass envelope is broken, the glass inner tube arrangement is intact.
@electricme
   With respect to Reply #883, would a krypton strobe lamp work as well as a mercury lamp?  The krypton lamp usually takes 4,000+ volts to trigger it and isn't designed to operate continuously.  It tends to strobe slowly, as well.
   Also, what's connected to the resistor on the lamp?  Does that lead go anywhere?  Is the circular thing next to the transistor a variable resistor?  If so, what's the value and wattage?
 
--Lee
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 06:03:33 PM by the_big_m_in_ok »

Offline t3t4

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #888 on: December 02, 2009, 04:34:17 PM »
I'm just as poor as most of you, or as rich depending on how you look at things. But I think you missed the part where I said,,,,"myself included".

Offline electricme

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #889 on: December 03, 2009, 12:34:38 AM »
@ t3t4

I'm just as poor as most of you, or as rich depending on how you look at things. But I think you missed the part where I said,,,,"myself included".

Hello there,
I'm sorry t3t4, sometimes I do get carried away, it's the ADHD in me, by the end of a day my medication is a bit thin, so I trend to run off a bit.
so if I caused you any grief I publically apologise to you.

I welcome you here and look forward to your posts as no doubt the others would also. :)

jim
 

Offline electricme

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #890 on: December 03, 2009, 01:34:34 AM »
@ the big m in ok
Hello Lee and thanks for your question.

@electricme
   With respect to Reply #883, would a krypton strobe lamp work as well as a mercury lamp?  The krypton lamp usually takes 4,000+ volts to trigger it and isn't designed to operate continuously.  It tends to strobe slowly, as well.
   Also, what's connected to the resistor on the lamp?  Does that lead go anywhere?  Is the circular thing next to the transistor a variable resistor?  If so, what's the value and wattage?
 
--Lee
I don't know if a crypton lamp would work as I havent got one to try.

I think the bedini is just oscillating and this is triggering the transistor which is able to feed pulses into the MOT.

The resistor at the bottom of the glass lamp, well I just measured it, the DMM couldn't read it, so it must be a very low ohmage type.
There "seems" to just be a coil of wire anode cathode arrangement, there is a tiny "trigger" wire towards the bottom of the tube very close to the lowest electrode, there is this unknown value resistor in series with the heavy wire which goes up to the top of the tube.

I am feeding the output from the MOT directly into the bottom electrode, and between the top electrode and the "resistor".

The circular thing next to the transistor is a 5K pot, I noticed last night the shaft became hot so I turned it off.

Last night I was able to get a nice light blue discharge effect, (UV) no doubt, but I could make the discharge go up or down as I twisted this shaft .
Very interresting, the high pitch sounds go up and down at the same time, these come through the interaction between the iron bolt and the magnets on the VCR drum.
I made another Tiny Video and you can see it operating.

0411 = The Bedini is driving the VCR drum, and driving the MOT which is putting out enough HT to excite the Mercury Vapor tube.
As I turn the speed on the Bedini down to zero, the VCR drum eventually stops, but the MOT is still being driven by the Bedini oscillations and is still able to drive the mercury atoms (I think) in the UV lamp.

I can move the "bullet" up or down by adjusting the pot which usually controls the Bedini motor.

So where is the MOT? well, I took tishatangs advice and dug a hole outside in the dirt and chucked it in there, all covered up with several plastic bags.
I used ordinary house hold extension leads to send the impulses to the MOT and back inside the house to drive the UV tube.

Sorry about the under exposed image of the Bedini, I will fix this later.

jim

Offline t3t4

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #891 on: December 03, 2009, 05:39:28 AM »
@ t3t4

Hello there,
I'm sorry t3t4, sometimes I do get carried away, it's the ADHD in me, by the end of a day my medication is a bit thin, so I trend to run off a bit.
so if I caused you any grief I publically apologise to you.

I welcome you here and look forward to your posts as no doubt the others would also. :)

jim

Hey, no worries Jim. I took no offense, but you did seem a little pissed at me. So maybe I can help, not as well as santa of coarse,,lol. But I can show you where I buy to get deals. It's easy to get $9k scopes from the government and others, all you have to do is bid. I don't have 1000's that I can piss away either, but I have a few hundred. If you do too, then you can have something newer for nickles on the dollar. So I'll provide a few links here to my favorite places to buy high end for dirt.

You can turn around and sell on eBay if you want, I did it for about 3 years full time. But, competition has become killing and dismemberment, it's not fun and you'll have to be frugal and educated about what you are bidding on. So do your homework before you bid and you'll be fine. I still see lots of deals, but it's harder today to get a steal. Simple truth is: too many people are playing the same game.

Anyway, here you go:

http://www.go-dove.com/default.asp

http://www.govliquidation.com/index.html

http://www.usa.gov/shopping/shopping.shtml

Check them out at your leisure, sign up if you want, it's all free just like OU.com, but you still have to sign up, just like you did here. Be willing to pick this stuff up when you win. Shipping is a killer since your mostly buying lots, not individual components or equipment. But, $300 goes a long long way with a typical resale value of 2:1 on a bad day. Their all bad days anymore since the competition is so nasty. But even still, you guys can find much newer test equipment in lots for next to nothing compared to original cost. Some new, some old, most works, but some doesn't.

I hope this helps,,,ho, ho, ho,,,,lol

Thanks,
t3t4

Offline electricme

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #892 on: December 03, 2009, 06:19:45 AM »
@ t3t4,
Thats OK ;)

Hey, no worries Jim. I took no offense, but you did seem a little pissed at me. So maybe I can help, not as well as santa of coarse,,lol. But I can show you where I buy to get deals. It's easy to get $9k scopes from the government and others, all you have to do is bid. I don't have 1000's that I can piss away either, but I have a few hundred. If you do too, then you can have something newer for nickles on the dollar. So I'll provide a few links here to my favorite places to buy high end for dirt.

You can turn around and sell on eBay if you want, I did it for about 3 years full time. But, competition has become killing and dismemberment, it's not fun and you'll have to be frugal and educated about what you are bidding on. So do your homework before you bid and you'll be fine. I still see lots of deals, but it's harder today to get a steal. Simple truth is: too many people are playing the same game.

Anyway, here you go:

http://www.go-dove.com/default.asp

http://www.govliquidation.com/index.html

http://www.usa.gov/shopping/shopping.shtml

Check them out at your leisure, sign up if you want, it's all free just like OU.com, but you still have to sign up, just like you did here. Be willing to pick this stuff up when you win. Shipping is a killer since your mostly buying lots, not individual components or equipment. But, $300 goes a long long way with a typical resale value of 2:1 on a bad day. Their all bad days anymore since the competition is so nasty. But even still, you guys can find much newer test equipment in lots for next to nothing compared to original cost. Some new, some old, most works, but some doesn't.

I hope this helps,,,ho, ho, ho,,,,lol

Thanks,
t3t4

Thanks Santa, good thing your claws are retracted, lol, OK, I will take it all on board and go and take a look see. :D

@ all those who follow my 63 earth battery cells, last night they died, well it turns out it was a bad connection involved, never mind, I spent a bit of time in the blazing hot sun, (35 degree heat  8) ) and re did all the EBC connections.

Did a few series and group cell tests, the output has dropped overall, but it is still able to put out enough voltage to make a white HI Bright LED blinding to look at.
Santa should stick the led on Rudolf's nose this Xmas run. Wow solar powered LED nose light. ;D

@ t3t4,
Hey, I got a challenge for you, start an oscilloscope class, :o  VERY BASIC only, in a new thread, how about it? It will help keep this EEB thread as it is supposed to be. If you can keep it related to OU stuff, you may have a lot of students, you never know, you just might get the title of Scope Guru on OU.
Besides, we all could do with a refresher on how to use our scopes, have a think about it.

jim

Offline t3t4

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #893 on: December 03, 2009, 09:20:14 AM »
@ t3t4,
Thats OK ;)

Thanks Santa, good thing your claws are retracted, lol, OK, I will take it all on board and go and take a look see. :D

@ t3t4,
Hey, I got a challenge for you, start an oscilloscope class, :o  VERY BASIC only, in a new thread, how about it? It will help keep this EEB thread as it is supposed to be. If you can keep it related to OU stuff, you may have a lot of students, you never know, you just might get the title of Scope Guru on OU.
Besides, we all could do with a refresher on how to use our scopes, have a think about it.

jim

I could do something like that, and I would, but, if I did, I would be a bit redundant. It's got nothing to do with being lazy or anything like that, but rather the fact that so many others have already done the tutorials. I'm no master, but I did learn the hard way from some of the true masters. Youtube has some excellent tutorials on how to use an oscilloscope, and lets face it, who wants to read the book when you can just watch the movie? But I can recommend some excellent sites to read over if some prefer it that way, otherwise, I'd recommend youtube for some excellent video tutorials.

But even more is available on DVD if you prefer it that way instead. I think most people do not understand the coupling, how to couple what and when. How do you know what to measure or how to measure if you don't know what you should be measuring to begin with? It's tough to say the least. It's something I struggle with myself. This planet is confusing and maybe confused, but with the correct equipment, one can measure both AC and DC almost everywhere. Some of the ULF bands will dip into and below the 6HZ range. Some meters will see this as DC when it's actually AC. But even when you know you have DC, an AC wave can still be measured since AC can pass through caps and batteries and pretty much anything else.

But I would still recommend youtube as a free source of scope tutorials. Knowing what you should be measuring, well, that's up to you guys to decide for yourselves. But I'll gladly help where I can.

t3t4

Offline electricme

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #894 on: December 03, 2009, 01:59:21 PM »

Offline the_big_m_in_ok

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #895 on: December 03, 2009, 04:15:00 PM »
@ the big m in ok
Hello Lee and thanks for your question.
Thanks for your response.  I downloaded a copy of the drawing.  It's very representative of the Bedini motor, with the major exception being the MOT.  Caution with that!  Mechanical setups aren't my forte', but I like the relatively low voltage approach by Bedini.

--Lee

Offline electricme

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #896 on: December 04, 2009, 03:50:21 AM »
@ tishatang,
I have my tuners out and ready to proceed further.
The coil you posted a few pages back, is 25 turns, should I make this coil with 30 turns, then provide taps between 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29 and 30 turns.

With the secondary, this is shown as 100 tuens, should I make this with 120 turns, with taps between 100 and 120?

jim
 

Offline electricme

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #897 on: December 04, 2009, 03:53:40 AM »
@ tishatang,

When I wind the coils, what would you recomend as the core? Air core, Iron lamination core, (as in MOT) or solid iron bar?

I am thinking of paralleling across the tuner, a number of capacitors, what values would you suggest.


jim

Offline electricme

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #898 on: December 04, 2009, 05:30:56 AM »
@ the_big_M

Thanks for your response.  I downloaded a copy of the drawing.  It's very representative of the Bedini motor, with the major exception being the MOT.  Caution with that!  Mechanical setups aren't my forte', but I like the relatively low voltage approach by Bedini.

--Lee
Hi Lee, it is a bedini .

If you go back a few posts, and click on the paper clip, you will see this in operation

I'm just putting it to a different use, see the pic below, Ultra Violet radiation, I can smell the OZONE ha ha
 

Offline tishatang

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #899 on: December 04, 2009, 09:16:58 AM »
@electricme
I would not be a hurry to wind some coils.  I would first use the MOT you have in the ground to see what you get.  Use the secondary first because it will have more inductance and give you a lower freq.  Try to setup up a resonant circuit with the secondary and the var cap.  Slowly sweep with the var cap.  Look for highs and lows with your meter.  If you get nothing, then try the primary coil.  This will change your freq bands.

The MOT can be a crude representation of the Stubblefield EB.  Both are  iron core coils.  It is on record that he had large plate caps as seen in photos.  My feeling is he is using the coils in the buried EB as part of res circuit with those caps.  He had fixed caps and had to tune with another var inductor in series with the EB inductor.  We have the advantage of var caps than did not exist in his day.  When you get some spikes as you tune, try and get the freqs.  If you get no signals, we can add another cap with the var cap and change freq bands.  We should get something.  I will try and draw up a sketch for you.