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Author Topic: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments  (Read 257475 times)

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #165 on: July 23, 2009, 05:12:28 AM »
EB1   Initial readings:::

Layout:  2ft stainless steel pipe

            3 copper sheets (half-Hexagon)

Voltage: 0.46v
Current: immeasurable
Resistance: 660 Ohm (?)

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #166 on: July 23, 2009, 05:20:17 AM »
Smokey:

Nice work.  That is a good start.  A lot of others here will agree that once you leave that in the ground for a few days, your reading will go up.  Stubblefield said that, and myself and others have seen the same thing.  I really have no idea why.  mA's are hard to make and to measure.  See what it reads in a day or two.

Iltfdaniel:

Good post.  I have read similar info before and it is good to see.  Lord Kelvin talked about sea batteries and, funny thing was, most assumed it was galvanic but he proved it was not.  Thanks for posting this here. Did you mean my strange readings on my scope?

Bill

Offline jeanna

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #167 on: July 23, 2009, 05:39:09 AM »
EB1   Initial readings:::

Layout:  2ft stainless steel pipe

            3 copper sheets (half-Hexagon)

Voltage: 0.46v
Current: immeasurable
Resistance: 660 Ohm (?)
Hi Sm0ky2,

Is that galvanized steel? or perhaps plain steel?

I agree with Bill, It will be conditioned in a week to a month.

And I would add as a reminder you need wetness on the metals for surface contact.
My soil can turn to dry powder in an afternoon. And, when it does my battery drops close to 0.5volts. I usually put a cup of water on each electrode in the morning. this keeps the ground sort of moist. Because dumping water on it will right off make the volts go way down. Then I measure in the afternoon.

I know you probably never get that powder-dry of the west coast in the middle of the continent, but just in case your place is really dry this week, you can accelerate the response with water. Not wet, but moist.

good stuff... carry on,

jeanna

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #168 on: July 23, 2009, 06:11:14 AM »
Hi Sm0ky2,

Is that galvanized steel? or perhaps plain steel?

jeanna

definately not galvanized.  its the reminence of a stainless steel
2-piece shower curtain rod.  the 2 pieces slide perfect into each other, so i had cut it down to make my oversized VanDeGraff.

i ended up cutting down the (not quite) 5ft section to about 2 feet, so the lawn guy wouldnt intrude on my earth battery.
i stuck it off in the corner behind the squash.

unfortunately, that forced me to place them a lot closer together than i would have liked, in order to stay on the magnetic line. - which according to my makeshift compass, is right on the money.


ground is pretty wet right now from the rain but on a hot summer day it can get so dry it cracks.
I assure you the Kansas sun is like nothing the west coast ever sees (maybe death valley)....  we get 110F in the summer time on a good day.

 i'll check it again tomorow after some of the moisture goes away.

[edit]  voltage is up to 0.53v now, after about an hour in the ground. im reading 2ma on the meter = 1.06mw
still not enough to power the LED, but i left it hooked up for the night just to see if it lights up later on.


i'll hook up a cap when i do my tests tomorow and see what kind of charge-rate i can get on this thing.

im impressed by the half a volt, i didnt expect that much to be honest. must be something to say about magnetic allignment.

i was thinking about burying a piece of plexi/persplex inbetween the electrodes to force a longer current path. this might make a good substitute for a larger spacing between them. any thoughts?

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #169 on: July 23, 2009, 07:10:06 AM »
Smokey:

I'm sorry, thought you were in western Ky.  Well, not too far anyway.  Our dip angles are close.  Did you adjust for your magnetic deviation for your area?  Back before I realized I was not exactly as lined up with true north as I thought, I just put one electrode in the ground and the other I just stabbed slightly into the earth at the other end.  I put my meter on it and stabbed around until I got the highest reading.  Now, it won't be as good as the one you get with everything deep in the ground but, if the theory is correct, you will see the best reading will be off of your magnetic north by the same number, or close to your deviation.  I am guessing your deviation will be about 2.5 degrees, or somewhere in that area.  Really not too far from magnetic north so it may not make all that much difference.  I just want the others to be aware as the deviation can really add up depending where you are.

Jeanna is right and I like her word "condition".  I always wet all of my stuff when I bury it.  My best numbers are when it is totally dry but, there is something about the moisture that helps the materials acclimatize or get conditioned to the ground faster.
You have just seen yourself that your numbers went up, they should continue to do so...to a point.

What kind of cap are you using?  I recommend a supercap of at least 10 Farad, or, whatever you can get a hold of.  My first supercap was only .47 Farad, but it allowed me to light first one led, and then three.

Good work over there.  ***EDIT***  .53 volts should be enough to light a regular led using a JT circuit that has a 2n3904 transistor.

Bill

Offline jeanna

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #170 on: July 23, 2009, 07:17:38 AM »
definitely not galvanized.  its the reminence of a stainless steel
OK not galvanized puts it closer on the galvanic scale, so you might get lower numbers from that than the galvanized which is zinc coated.
Quote
...
i stuck it off in the corner behind the squash.
... a lot closer together than i would have liked, in order to stay on the magnetic line.

How close?
I think 4 feet is far enough.
I changed mine from 4 feet to 20 feet this year. I am not getting any more than last year.



Quote
ground is pretty wet right now from the rain

Good. That will get it started. I suspect the soil will be better attached when it dries out.


Quote
im reading 2ma on the meter
milli?
I thought I had microamps. I need to check.

Do you have a joule thief that operates on less than 1 volt? You could be making one while you wait.

I didn't get to it today, but gadgetmall has some germanium transistors that turn on at less than 0.7v. This should help all of us that don't have enormous blocks of magnesium in the front garden.  ;) I will be making a separate single JT just for the EB with the germanium transistor and boosted with cap and diodes.
Quote
i'll hook up a cap when i do my tests tomorow and see what kind of charge-rate i can get on this thing.
yes.

plexi/persplex, I dunno, try it. try everything.

I remember before I dismantled my EB garden I had some stubblefield generators and I hooked them in between the EB probes. I was able to boost the output by doing this.
Of course this makes sense. I was adding an inductor to a pulsing field.
I never pursued it, but I think it would be a good way to go. Maybe the pesky part about winding the stubblefield with cloth and doing the galvanic part won't be necessary, if you/we just hook it up somehow using the inductance it has.

Back then it was all just the primary too.
I think it is a good idea to revisit this especially after getting the radiant response today across that secondary.

But, I am rushing you. No Stubblefield yet. Just get the EB going well, then the inductors will naturally follow.

jeanna

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #171 on: July 23, 2009, 07:38:24 AM »

How close?
I think 4 feet is far enough.

1.5ft is what i triangulated it approx.
too close i know.. but its what i have to work with.

Quote

milli?
I thought I had microamps. I need to check.
thats why i said "the meter reads",  im not sure if thats an anomalous reading or what, but its holding at a steady 2.4ma now.

Quote

Do you have a joule thief that operates on less than 1 volt? You could be making one while you wait.


i havent made any JT yet..  i still dont understand it....
I/C + transistor ??
what makes it a "joule thief" vs any other I/C + transistor circuit??

i have all sorts of components in my toolkit, but im not really sure what to do with them to make it a "joule thief"
i didnt notice anything special about those circuits in the thread...  i just dont get it...

i assume there is a certain number of turns of x guage wire to tune it to operate at 1v??  i'd have to look up all the parts numbers on my transistors to see which ones would even be applicable..

i have a handful of 5v caps (and some larger) of all kinds,
is electrolytic the best to use for JT??

do i need a secondary pick-up coil? or does it just feed back into the circuit?

im sure all this has been covered in the JT threads, hidden amongst the mess....   its probably simpler than my mind tries to make it, i just dont understand what makes it tick.
I/C circuits have been in use for more decades than i have been alive, yet the "JT" is fairly new...

and still i dont see the difference...

think i need a JT-Tutor...



Offline lltfdaniel1

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #172 on: July 23, 2009, 07:45:09 AM »
Smokey:

Nice work.  That is a good start.  A lot of others here will agree that once you leave that in the ground for a few days, your reading will go up.  Stubblefield said that, and myself and others have seen the same thing.  I really have no idea why.  mA's are hard to make and to measure.  See what it reads in a day or two.

Iltfdaniel:

Good post.  I have read similar info before and it is good to see.  Lord Kelvin talked about sea batteries and, funny thing was, most assumed it was galvanic but he proved it was not.  Thanks for posting this here. Did you mean my strange readings on my scope?

Bill

Yep sure did.

Offline lltfdaniel1

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #173 on: July 23, 2009, 07:50:35 AM »
Once were done with logging and gathered enough..but please do share and also tell us your weather and time.

Next would be to get more amps and volts...useing the sea battery method and experiment.

I read on energeticforum that Stubblefield used radium for his earth battery but to keep it open minded...it also produced ions...these ions influence your cell..he must of used the ion effect along with the obvious nuclear effect...but i find the old stuff is the best..books from 1900 to 1950..

Yea i know i haven't shared any data logging anyways i am just feeding to lead on to the same discovery regarding sea batterys and compare and in anycase i view this earth current like some jet stream.

As far as i can see...the earth is interlinked with its systems and along with the solar system...the moon would have an effect with its magnetic do da...along with the earths..and a sea tides is an example but a closer eye would suggest that it is effecting the earth and thus also the ions i feel...all interlinked you know...like sound into electric..turn the sound down and you reduce the electric...versa versa...but then the earth has to maintain it's ions so yea but would have some effect.

Like ionosphere resonance where you tap into the earths amplifer so to speak where normally a radio would have 50 mile range then you tap into this and get 1000 miles in conjuction with the earth...so it is like a little speaker being turned into a massive one and thus...if you turn this into electric..then expect more electric..thus why tesla basicly called it a amplifer so to speak.

The sea method basicly taps into this earth current and use it as a carrier wave like the ionosphere resonance...i feel you can get much more than a few milliamps and a few volts there.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061016142335AAA6Ps0



Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #174 on: July 23, 2009, 07:57:28 AM »
1.5ft is what i triangulated it approx.
too close i know.. but its what i have to work with.
thats why i said "the meter reads",  im not sure if thats an anomalous reading or what, but its holding at a steady 2.4ma now.

i havent made any JT yet..  i still dont understand it....
I/C + transistor ??
what makes it a "joule thief" vs any other I/C + transistor circuit??

i have all sorts of components in my toolkit, but im not really sure what to do with them to make it a "joule thief"
i didnt notice anything special about those circuits in the thread...  i just dont get it...

i assume there is a certain number of turns of x guage wire to tune it to operate at 1v??  i'd have to look up all the parts numbers on my transistors to see which ones would even be applicable..

i have a handful of 5v caps (and some larger) of all kinds,
is electrolytic the best to use for JT??

do i need a secondary pick-up coil? or does it just feed back into the circuit?

im sure all this has been covered in the JT threads, hidden amongst the mess....   its probably simpler than my mind tries to make it, i just dont understand what makes it tick.
I/C circuits have been in use for more decades than i have been alive, yet the "JT" is fairly new...

and still i dont see the difference...

think i need a JT-Tutor...

Smokey:

The JT circuit is simple...at least for the simple version which is all you need.  No cap on the JT, no secondary, just a bifilar winding on a 1" ferrite toroid and use a 1k resistor and a 2n3904 transistor.  There is a very good Instructables on how to make the simple one: http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-Joule-Thief/

That is what I used to make my first one.  26 ga. wire, wound bifilar and the components I mentioned above.  This will take a AA battery down to almost nothing.  I have many lights around my house running on "dead" batteries.

The supercap I mentioned will not be part of the JT circuit but will be wired in parallel with your EB.

Very easy to do and it is not the same as using an ic. (like the 555 timer)  It is way more efficient, and if you get into some of the advanced stuff being done on the JT topic, you can get up to 1,300 volts from a single "dead" AA battery.

Hope this helps.

Bil

Offline jeanna

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #175 on: July 23, 2009, 08:01:11 AM »
 :D probably not a full tutor!

The joule thief is really simple.

It relies on the switching transistor to turn the thing on and off.
The toroid which is at least wound with a simple center tapped bifilar toroid is a wonderful and easy design.

I have been using a secondary since December, because it uses less amps and has a much better ability to catch the flyback (back emf spikes) Those are the things that create the difference. The spikes. I will not tempt myself to go on about that for the moment.

A 1k ohm resistor gets added to the base of the transistor to regulate the switching.

It is very simple to do and is wide open for advancement.
The ics though wonderful, are more specific in their uses than this. This is growing with each new person who joins the group.

So, don't worry about the details of fancy winding designs, but do make one without a secondary and one with a secondary.
The one with a secondary uses no light in the C-E place. You stick it there briefly to make sure the circuit is done right, then take it out. It just uses more juice than needed.

I recommend you get a toroid from allelectronics Tor-23 is a really sweet one very high frequency lower volts, but high enough. (10/$1)
2N3904 is a swift transistor capable of 200MHz - 500MHz. Fast enough for jazz. 2N2222 works great too.
1k ohm resistor.
Tele wire cat-5 cable (12 inches 2 wires)
battery leads for the EB or a holder for inside.
Allelectronics sells decent leds too. Later you can get 100 from china for $9.

You can get a toroid from some compact fluorescent bulbs.
I bet it is the ones that scream.
Some have a chip, some have a ballast, some have a toroid. It is too bad radioshack doesn't sell a toroid.

I hope I didn't add too many details.
If I have confused you please ask.

jeanna

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #176 on: July 23, 2009, 08:02:10 AM »
lltfdaniel1:


Actually, Stubblefield ended up seeding his garden later on with pitchblende, which is actually the ore that radium comes from.  This does not account for the success of his earth batteries in itself as when he went on tour (Philly, Washington, etc.) he did not seed those areas and his devices still worked just fine.

Bill

Offline jeanna

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #177 on: July 23, 2009, 08:11:18 AM »
Liftdaniel,

Quote
I read on energeticforum that Stubblefield used radium for his earth battery but to keep it open minded...it also produced ions...these ions influence your cell..he must of used the ion effect along with the obvious nuclear effect...but i find the old stuff is the best..books from 1900 to 1950.

I think that was a lie to discourage any real research on stubblefield.
I wish it would just stop being repeated.
It was a rumor and stated as that in the beginning.
There was never any real evidence except a divorce and a child who did not live to be adult..
Not very good evidence for radium, if you ask me.

It was an inductor which used the moving pulsing em field of the earth currents.
It was basically a joule thief with a secondary.
I have written about this on the stubblefield thread.
Inductors were commonly used back then as your reading has certainly already told you.

And on and on.

But not radium. That was just a rumor.

jeanna

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #178 on: July 23, 2009, 08:17:51 AM »
Jeanna:

That was no rumor.  His child died of radiation poising from eating, actually sucking (teething) on a potato slice from the garden.  I heard this from his son's own mouth. (Yes, the son in all of those photos)  He has a radio show and there are some good shows on the net where he talks about the experiments with his father. Also, when Murry State University was built on the old farm of Stubblefield's, they had to remove all of that stuff to make it safe for the students.

Bill

Offline jeanna

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Re: Earth Electrical Energy Datalogging Experiments
« Reply #179 on: July 23, 2009, 08:22:34 AM »
Bill,
I am going to sleep now, but I would really like to hear those shows you mentioned.
I have never heard anything beyond that Firewire one. It has some interesting stuff, but no interview with the son.

Anytime you can get it I would like to have the link.

thanks,

jeanna.