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Author Topic: MAGNET SHIELDING  (Read 51389 times)

Offline Shakti

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2010, 01:06:03 PM »
How shielding works best seems to be questionable but it's worth an experiment. I have some MUmetal now and layering is no problem although I will say that one comment about MU being layered already is not true. It is single walled which can be layered. Layering may or may not be needed depending on other factors. Also, MU is a special process and it's effectivness can be ruined easily.

One point also is that shielding can become saturated, lessening the effect. Although this may take a long time which is good and thats where layering may help if needed.

Other points to address are the materials to be used for the energy and drive. I will try an assortment to see what happens.

One thing is a fact, a magnetic field can be contained or excluded depending on the application. Let's see if a "halbach" type effect can be made with shielding. I have my doubt's but I can't yet see why not. So many ideas swirling about, it's all good fun!

Shakti

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2010, 01:06:03 PM »

Offline gravityblock

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2010, 06:26:37 AM »
There is no question about how shielding works, once you understand it.  When you attach a magnet to a ferromagnetic material, the domains will align through the material or with the field.  After the domains are aligned, then the ferromagnetic material will act as a magnet. 

Attaching a second magnet with an opposite pole to a ferromagnetic material will align the domains parallel with the surface of the material, and the flux will travel inside the ferromagnetic material (the metal is now acting as a return path for the flux).  As long as the ferromagnetic material isn't fully saturated, then their won't be an external field on the other side of the metal.  This is magnetic shielding.

It takes two opposite poles to shield properly.  This is an easy test for anyone to do.  The mu-metal found in the hard drives have a single magnet attached to it.  This single magnet has both poles on either side of the magnet, thus there is no field on the backside of the mu-metal in the hard drives, and this is how they do the shielding with a single magnet.  If your magnets are axially magnetized, then it takes two magnets.  Don't make this more complicated than it really is.  The concept is simple, and shielding does work, but you must know how to do it properly.

GB

Offline Shakti

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2010, 11:22:18 AM »
That was a very nice explanation Gravityblock and I woudn't dream of making something more complicated than it really is.

With respect, it seems you have made my comment more complicated than it really is. If you will please notice I wrote how shielding works "best", not how does shielding work. My questioning comment was simply aimed at the best method of applying shielding to the subject of a magnetic overunity engine, nothing else. I'm sure you can see that now I have clarified my meaning :)

By the way, I visited a factory that makes and fabricates the MU yesterday and had quite a nice chat with one of the men there. For all those trying shielding with MU, one bit of advice was given to me that it should not be droped as doing so can knock the particles out of alinement resulting in less efficient shielding. It's quite an interesting process they use to make the stuff.

I have different sizes of MU now and other materials to do some testing. I have my doubts for various reasons, but it should be fun.

Regards, Shakti

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2010, 11:22:18 AM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2010, 12:12:02 PM »
I have different sizes of MU now and other materials to do some testing. I have my doubts for various reasons, but it should be fun.

Regards, Shakti

Welcome to the forum Shakti.  Please keep us updated on your testing.  Thanks.

GB

Offline Shakti

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2010, 12:43:58 PM »
Thank you GB.

The main obstacles I can already envision is that although MU is a shield, a magnet is still attracted to it being what it's made of. So, even if a magnet is shielded to allow another to pass the "sticky" point, the attraction to the shielding may cancel out the action of polarity.
 
Anyway, I have another idea to overcome that so lets see what happens:)

Shakti

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2010, 12:43:58 PM »
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Offline Rapadura

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2010, 01:19:28 PM »
Inside a halbach tube the magnetic flux is uniform. The steel ball is actually being forced all directions at the same time.

No, no, that's not a halbach tube...  In the drawing bellow, that's just an ordinary plastic tube, used to force the ball to go only forward and back, not sideways.

The idea is that the ball can be attracted by the attractive side of the Halbach array, and after passing the array a little, it will not be attracted by the other side, as it would be in a normal magnet, because that's the non-attractive side of the Halbach array.

Offline jonifer

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2010, 02:16:31 PM »
On forсe diagram - see the not obvious peak. Area size S1=S2 (Power left = power right)
F - force along X axis.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 04:44:17 PM by jonifer »

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2010, 02:16:31 PM »
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Offline Rapadura

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2010, 09:52:58 PM »
On forсe diagram - see the not obvious peak. Area size S1=S2 (Power left = power right)
F - force along X axis.

To be honest, I didn't understand what you said...

So, what will be the behavior of the ball? Passes the Halbach array a little and then is attracted back? Don't pass the Halbach array and gets stuck just in front of the extremity of the array?

Offline Charlie_V

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #38 on: April 17, 2010, 05:11:54 AM »
It would just get stuck before it entered, unless you gave it a good enough kick, but then it would roll back.  Even if you had magnetic monopoles you couldn't make an overunity device because the moving part would just find the area of least magnetic repulsion (if in opposition, like North North) or area of greatest magnetic attraction (if in attraction, like North South).

Case in point, using electric charges (which are monopoles) you can make a stator composing of a ring of balls, each ball charged to slightly higher electric field values.  A ball in the rotor can be charged with an equal E -field potential.  All the rotor will do is find the area of least Electric field and sit there (since the rotor has the same potential as the stator).  You'd have to change the E field values of the stator to get it to move.  In doing that you would induce a current and use power.

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #38 on: April 17, 2010, 05:11:54 AM »
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Offline jonifer

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #39 on: April 17, 2010, 06:38:49 AM »
conditions of overunity is S1>S2 or S1<S2 (movement direction). In this model S1=S2. "S" -square under line.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md4gikM9Ezs
not working by the same reason
« Last Edit: April 17, 2010, 10:53:58 AM by jonifer »

Offline Low-Q

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2010, 12:35:07 PM »
To be honest, I didn't understand what you said...

So, what will be the behavior of the ball? Passes the Halbach array a little and then is attracted back? Don't pass the Halbach array and gets stuck just in front of the extremity of the array?
In order to have "stable" magnets, all the flux have to return to the opposite pole. This means there is a balance in magnetic "amount" on each side of a permanent magnet - even for complex arranged magnets. This balance is constant unless you you power to demagnetize or magnetize a permanent magnet. Balance means in short "No work". It is stable, nothing happens.
As long permanent magnets are in balance, you cannot make things work. Many attempts on magnet motors are based on altering flux by presence of a magnetic object. This object is ofcourse as much affected by the magnet, as the manget is affected by the object. So what is the gain if these forces cancel eachother out? This is like playing with the two numbers 2 and 2. I sit down with the equation 2-2=0. No matter how I arrange these numbers, slice them apart in (1+1)-(1+1), or other configurations, the sum is allways zero. You cannot trick this numbers to get a sum greater or less than zero. So is it for the magnets as well. This is what I believe however. Maybe there is some enery in space or vacuum that can be "captured" to make a magnet motor work, but then it would be much less time consuming building a wind mill and attach a generator to it :)

Vidar

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2010, 12:35:07 PM »
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