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Author Topic: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009  (Read 35135 times)

Offline TheOne

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Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2009, 06:05:11 AM »
This morning I quickly made a model of this spinning device and it doesn't work.  Of course there was some talk of getting a NDA from the inventor guy which I didn't. So, unless I don't have some top secret information, it just spins one turn and hits the wall and stops.  Is it worth even posting a video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tigYmzReW84

Dusty

Good replication, however, the stator need 2 magnets per side, so 4 magnets, 2 stacked on each side

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2009, 06:05:11 AM »

Offline carbonc_cc

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Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2009, 02:36:31 PM »
I'm sitting on the fence on this one.  I see this toy with the same "closing-the-loop" problem I saw with the mylow motor.  Even if you tried to "null" the gate.  Closing the loop would just make the whole thing extremely weak.

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2009, 03:29:19 PM »
I thought that too, but I read somewhere that FM said that the rotor material made no difference .

If thats the case then the inventor must have made more than one of these devices and saw it ran using diferent materials.  Wheres the other devices?  Also beware of the "magic hand" use on any type of self runner.  I have constructed a number of those devices myself that I never posted.

yup, I found it here:
http://www.overunity.org.uk/showthread.php?s=d3056a15f1ed654f70e1fad5c24eaeba&t=378

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2009, 03:29:19 PM »
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Offline queue

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Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2009, 10:29:30 PM »
This morning I quickly made a model of this spinning device and it doesn't work.  Of course there was some talk of getting a NDA from the inventor guy which I didn't. So, unless I don't have some top secret information, it just spins one turn and hits the wall and stops.  Is it worth even posting a video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tigYmzReW84

Dusty

Hi Dusty

Did you happen to notice that one of his stator magnets in the base is set a wee bit higher than the other one ?
IN these pics you can see ..
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Magnet_Motor_by_FM_Concepts


i think i have these exact same NEOs somewhere in my magnet collections .. will have to check when i get home tonight ..

Cheers
Q

** http://OverUnity.ca   
** http://Relativity.ca

Offline exxcomm0n

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Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2009, 11:39:20 PM »
Hi All,

I like this one.
It's simple, immediate start, unidirectional, and cheap to build to prove concept. I certainly hope that is is a working concept and applaud the inventor for open-sourcing it (as much as he has....but it's weird w/ the NDA).

Unfortunately I have to sit on the fence w/ the others here as I saw some questionable things in the vid that I'd have to say it was a scam without other more revealing video.

The things I have concern about are:

1.) 0:05-0:11s - You cannot see the table surface the shaft will intersect with. No clear shot of the table top at any time.

2.) 0:13, 2:05-2:08s - Why is the inserted end of the shaft a different color? Is it a different material or is that hiding a machined key on the end of the shaft?

3.) 1:04-1:15 - During the "tilt" part of the presentation it seems extra care is used, as if the central hole of the stator was drilled all the way through and the end of the shaft is resting on the table top. The small glimpse I get of the shaft during the tilt, it seems to be sliding in the central hole and slowing the rotor down due to increased drag (even though this may not jibe with Lightrider's RPM analysis, this is the way it looks to me). After it's set back down it seems to speed up (again, my perception and not to be considered as important as the RPM analysis).

4.) Entire video - The stator assembly is moved rotationally quite a bit and does move laterally a tiny bit during those stator rotations, but is not moved laterally very much at all outside of what could be a "sphere of influence"  from the table surface or underneath the table. It would be nice to see it slide from side to side.

5.) Most of the video - Mr. Hand. It would be nice to see it spontaneously turn for a length of time where the stator is not being influenced by any outside motion.

While I hope that I am mistaken, these anomalies make me want to see more before I spend much time per suing replication of this device.

FM, please make another video of your proof of concept,  hopefully addressing these questions so that we might be a bit more convinced of your discovery and be more inclined to independently replicate it to insure the complete dissemination of the concept.

To all the replicators -
 I hope you prove these things dead wrong and good luck!

Thanks! ;)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2009, 11:39:20 PM »
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Offline magnetman12003

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Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2009, 01:21:39 AM »
Hi Dusty

Did you happen to notice that one of his stator magnets in the base is set a wee bit higher than the other one ?
IN these pics you can see ..
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Magnet_Motor_by_FM_Concepts


  Here is an jpeg enlarged bottom view of the rotor.

i think i have these exact same NEOs somewhere in my magnet collections .. will have to check when i get home tonight ..

Cheers
Q

** http://OverUnity.ca   
** http://Relativity.ca

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2009, 01:46:13 AM »
Notice the relation the LAST and MOST tilted magnet has to the center drive shaft. What kind of metal is that drive shaft made of ?  That also might factor into the operation??

It appears the sticky spot is directed to the "insides" of the rotor by the way the last 4 magnets curve.

--- Food for thought -- Say all 16 magnets had just a  very - very slight curve towards the insides of the rotor assembly.  Setup as below but all magnets curved inwards somewhat.
The rotor spins and by the time the sticky spot comes around ( Last magnet 45 degree curve) its essentialy directed where its null.   That sticky spot now rides the insides of the stator magnets circular "track".
Rotor then keeps spinning and a very "smooth" rotation should result. No more speed up then slow down at the last 4 magnets.     
« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 05:36:51 AM by magnetman12003 »

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Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2009, 01:46:13 AM »
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Offline queue

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Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2009, 05:11:18 AM »
Hi Dusty

Did you happen to notice that one of his stator magnets in the base is set a wee bit higher than the other one ?
IN these pics you can see ..
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Magnet_Motor_by_FM_Concepts


i think i have these exact same NEOs somewhere in my magnet collections .. will have to check when i get home tonight ..

Cheers
Q

** http://OverUnity.ca   
** http://Relativity.ca



Dusty : Magnetman12003

i was referring to the two neo stator magnets in the base .. ( right side in below pic )
Notice that one neo is set flush into the base .. the other is raised slightly ..

Q

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2009, 05:43:15 AM »
Anyone have an idea on the magnet polaritys and can color code an illustration?   Post here what you believe should work for both rotor and stator.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2009, 05:43:15 AM »
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Offline Lilhawk

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Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2009, 07:02:21 AM »
This could be wrong .....but I think this is the only way it will work in my opinion....you could reverse this set up and trade N for S and it should still work

Offline wattsup

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Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2009, 02:22:37 PM »
Look.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2009, 02:22:37 PM »
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Offline deseret

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Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2009, 11:48:50 PM »
It needs to be Independently Verified or be Mylowed!

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2009, 01:45:28 AM »
If what I am seeing is true then it looks like all 16 rotor magnets have to be installed one by one with the glue drying before installing the next magnet.  Fighting repelling forces all the way.  How much room for error is anyones guess.

  If the device doesnt work out then the magnets will haver to be broken out of the rotor cement to save them???

The rotor might be able to turn if correctly constructed but it also will bounce up and down.

Essentially it becomes a "rotor floater" or a huge bouncing self spinning  magnetic bearing.    Any comments?? 
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 05:31:47 AM by magnetman12003 »

Offline DMBoss

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Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2009, 02:52:59 PM »
If what I am seeing is true then it looks like all 16 rotor magnets have to be installed one by one with the glue drying before installing the next magnet.  Fighting repelling forces all the way.  How much room for error is anyones guess.

  If the device doesnt work out then the magnets will haver to be broken out of the rotor cement to save them???

The rotor might be able to turn if correctly constructed but it also will bounce up and down.

Essentially it becomes a "rotor floater" or a huge bouncing self spinning  magnetic bearing.    Any comments??

Yes installing magnets is always tricky.  But why would you need to break them out?  Such small magnets are less than a dollar each, or even if they are a dollar or two each, breaking or chipping them to save a few bucks - is that worth it?

No it won't bounce up and down!  Proper 3D magnetic simulations of his geometry reveals the upwards force from the stators on the rotor, does indeed vary from one stator to the other, depending on which part of the rotor's "ramp" is at that stator.

But the rotor itself is close to 300 grams, if the disc is stainless and the magnet mass.  the upwards force at these gaps is about 1-2 Newtons, and a Newton is 102 grams.  So no the rotor won't "lift off".

However this WILL reduce the bearing friction as weight is reduced on the bearing contact surfaces!

And I will say this, small changes in geometry, will be extremely sensitive to whether a replication will work or not - the net or average torque is extremely small - amounting to about 10 milliwatts of shaft power to maintain around 100 rpm with a good bearing and this mass.

So get just one aspect of the magnetic geometry wrong, and you will miss the working envelope.

Unfortunately many imperfections of this chap's machine are going to be very tedious to replicate.  Such as his rotor disc appears not to be true or round, and the bearing appears to be pressed into it's bore on the disc at a slight off axis angle. 

And the chamfer on the disc is of a varying width, indicating his lathe did not hold the part square and true!

And various of the vertical magnets are not - vertical as you pointed out about one that appears to have cracked in half inside the rotor.

He gouged out the holes for the angled magnets in the rotor disc by side loading a drill bit into a perpendicular hole - and that is VERY imprecise.

Also the mass distribution of the rotating assembly is unbalanced, from gravity's point of view, and from the moment of inertia of the gyroscopic effects of the varying side force applied by the stators to the "gyro".

This is not as "simple" as it appears to replicate!

DMBoss

Offline ramset

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Re: FM Concepts posts working video 4/7/2009
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2009, 03:03:10 PM »
DMBOSS

""This is not as "simple" as it appears to replicate!""

In a way that is good news [been tried a million times before phrase comes to mind]

Chet

 

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