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Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: iacob alex on July 01, 2009, 06:20:00 AM

Title: An easy Bessler...
Post by: iacob alex on July 01, 2009, 06:20:00 AM

  ...style design,can be effortless tested ,if we shorten(reduce,simplify...) the drawing MT13 from   www.orffyre.com/mt1-20.html    into something
similar, at    www.geocities.com/iacob_alex/Some_Drafts/text009.jpg

     As you can easy notice,a wheel with 12 spokes becomes a wheel with 2 spokes ,only (one constant,one variable).

    The constant spoke has a middle length.

    The variable spoke commutes(due to a "bump" effect of a small follower wheel) as a longer or a shorter length.

    The two masses are equal.

    The hub plays as a rotational charge-discharge inertia.

         All the Best! / Alex   
Title: Re: An easy Bessler...
Post by: Cloxxki on July 01, 2009, 08:25:36 AM
Nice one!

My concern is the blue weight at <12:00 hitting the pulley under its axle. My logic tells me the wheel will stop there, bounce back, before the blue weight has climded over the plley.
What feature in this design would be giving "something for nothing"?

thanks,

J
Title: Re: An easy Bessler...
Post by: utilitarian on July 01, 2009, 08:42:58 AM
Define "easy."
Title: Re: An easy Bessler...
Post by: exnihiloest on July 01, 2009, 02:57:43 PM
  ...style design,can be effortless tested ,if we shorten(reduce,simplify...) the drawing MT13 from   www.orffyre.com/mt1-20.html    into something
similar, at    www.geocities.com/iacob_alex/Some_Drafts/text009.jpg
...

Maybe they were interesting ideas 300 years ago but we know at least for 200 years that these stupidities do not work and why they do not work.
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm#wheels
it is not an obligation to redo the mistakes of the past again and again!
:-)





Title: Re: An easy Bessler...
Post by: Cloxxki on July 01, 2009, 03:40:40 PM
Maybe they were interesting ideas 300 years ago but we know at least for 200 years that these stupidities do not work and why they do not work.
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm#wheels
it is not an obligation to redo the mistakes of the past again and again!
:-)
How strange then, that with all those different ideas, in 300 years we still don't know what the lunatic Bessler figured out. We don't even have a less efficient OU wheel. His was doing serious useful work, dropping from the idle 26rpm to 20rpm. Wood and metal. With today's precision engineering, 40 years of men on the moon, we don't even get a wheel to complete its first real rotation when only held up by full ceramic or even magnetic bearings.
Even magnet assisted, not a single turn where the next gets easier.
Maybe Abeling has something, but this forum can't find out what it is that makes his wheel "work".
Title: Re: An easy Bessler...
Post by: utilitarian on July 01, 2009, 04:09:04 PM
How strange then, that with all those different ideas, in 300 years we still don't know what the lunatic Bessler figured out. We don't even have a less efficient OU wheel. His was doing serious useful work, dropping from the idle 26rpm to 20rpm. Wood and metal. With today's precision engineering, 40 years of men on the moon, we don't even get a wheel to complete its first real rotation when only held up by full ceramic or even magnetic bearings.
Even magnet assisted, not a single turn where the next gets easier.
Maybe Abeling has something, but this forum can't find out what it is that makes his wheel "work".

This is only strange if you buy into a working Bessler wheel.  True, we have some testimony from his contemporaries regarding some tests that were performed.  We also have some testimony (from his maid, I think), as to possible fraud.

The problem is that we have no physical evidence of a working wheel from him, and not even a diagram of anything that actually works.  I think he used some trick that his examiners were not able to figure out.  I have no proof of this except for the laws of physics, but at the same time, there is no real convincing proof otherwise.

I guess what I am getting to is that it's true there is a mystery about the wheel, but you cannot go from mystery to assuming he had something working.
Title: Re: An easy Bessler...
Post by: Cloxxki on July 01, 2009, 04:54:52 PM
This is only strange if you buy into a working Bessler wheel.  True, we have some testimony from his contemporaries regarding some tests that were performed.  We also have some testimony (from his maid, I think), as to possible fraud.

The problem is that we have no physical evidence of a working wheel from him, and not even a diagram of anything that actually works.  I think he used some trick that his examiners were not able to figure out.  I have no proof of this except for the laws of physics, but at the same time, there is no real convincing proof otherwise.

I guess what I am getting to is that it's true there is a mystery about the wheel, but you cannot go from mystery to assuming he had something working.
Oh, I didn't know of that claim of fraud. Not too well read into the subject I suppose.

Today, we'd put in a battery and electric motor, with remote. Even a cord running to an outside waterwheel would not be very suspect 300 years ago.

Pretty much anything declared impossible over human history has required later correction. So, I prefer to look for ways to make a grvity wheel work. We got that man on the moon also. And 16Gb of storage on my USB stick, for the price of a modest crate of fruit, or a modest meal in a the local restaurant.
Title: Re: An easy Bessler...
Post by: iacob alex on July 01, 2009, 11:20:11 PM

   ...is not an abstract talk about  PM (what a name!),but a very practical
suggestion,regarding the pendular fall in gravity.

      The first step is,to take a look at:   www.orffyre.com/mt1-20.html
   and here,at MT13.

      If we fix the wheel(12 spokes,one and all,with equal mass/pendulum ),we can get an unbalance/fall no more than 30*(360/12).

      The second step,is to imagine the same design with two opposite spokes,only.

      This time,we can get an unbalance/gravity fall for 180*(360/2).

      The third step,is to take a look at:   www.geocities.com/iacob_alex/Some_Drafts/text009.htm

      Here,we have a strange detail:we have an uncommon continuous pendular fall in gravity,next to ~360*(contrasting to a common 180* pendular fall in gravity) ,with an appropiate storage of gravity power in a heavy hub.

      The "remake" of long arm-short arm outline(main unbalance condition),is made in a short time,due to a "bump effect"(jerk acceleration),supplied  from the stored rotational inertia.

      We have a minimum 4 spare parts:

        -a big wheel(byke...)

        -a small wheel("someting" in the garage...)

        -two equal masses(fixed and pendular)

     If you play this "game",you can understand that "the way of theory is long,that of reality is short and easy-going.

           All the Best! / Alex
Title: Re: An easy Bessler...
Post by: iacob alex on June 07, 2017, 09:01:27 PM
 .....if we take a look at Bessler's proposal :
      www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index.php?title=MT_1-20#MT_013 (http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index.php?title=MT_1-20#MT_013)
      then to a practical test of this drawing , on youtube :
      https://youtu.be/SA7noI8sHL8 (https://youtu.be/SA7noI8sHL8)
      Now , we can make a simplified test with two opposite arms/spokes only...so , the " wheel " is a lever , nothing more...
      www.geocities.ws/iacob_alex/Some_Drafts/text028.JPG (http://www.geocities.ws/iacob_alex/Some_Drafts/text028.JPG)
      In this manner , you can play an elementary arrangement ( rod , bar , lever ...) with a single variable arm , or a slightly " modified " swinging sticks toy ...this time the "hidden " electric power supply becomes an unseen gravity power supply ?!
      The same idea to play the gravity unbalance , at :
      https://youtu.be/mOGOpzGffRo
      Al_ex