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Author Topic: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze  (Read 16408450 times)

Zeitmaschine

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #21000 on: February 05, 2014, 12:44:05 AM »
P.S. I don't think it draws more power due to Lenz's Law, I think it draws more power due to Ohms law/power dissipation. Without the effect of Lenz the input would go nut's. And there would be a failure or fire of some kind.

To avoid fire of some kind we are back to this one on page fourteen-O-one:

When the lower coil is switched off by the MC34063 then the back EMF occurs. At that moment the upper coil should be connected through the transistor (green) to the right 1000µF capacitor, so the back EMF can recharge that capacitor. Maybe that schematic is wrong, but I don't think this small device will catch fire due to overunity if it works correctly.

When the lower coil is in ON state then pin 1 of the MC34063 is connected to pin 2 negative. The transistor for the upper coil must be OFF. As soon as the lower coil is OFF pin 1 is HIGH and therefore the transistor for the upper coil must be ON. So why not connecting that transistor (green) with its gate to pin 1 of the MC34063?

verpies

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #21001 on: February 05, 2014, 01:17:40 AM »
But the electrons in a wire are moving. So could a magnetic field deflect electrons from ground into an electric circuit?
Yes, it's called the Hall Effect.

I still don't get it! When a transformer's primary coil is connected to the grid and the secondary coil is shorted, what happens? It draws more current (power) from the grid. Lenz Law.
Yes, Lenz law is "trying" to maintain the magnetic flux inside the winding at a constant level and this has the effect of decreasing the inductance of the primary winding.  In worst case scenario - down to almost zero (just like a straight piece of wire).

Now when a current flows through the coil of a solenoid and then it is suddenly switched off, the back EMF generates high voltage in that coil.
Rather it's the Lenz Law again that is "trying" to maintain the previous level of magnetic flux inside the winding by keeping the current flowing in that winding in the same direction.  Since you are "switching off" the winding, the only way to overcome that switch is to increase the voltage in order to arc over and keep the switch conducting current in the same direction.

Hence the coil of a solenoid has typically a Flywheel Diode connected to it in order to suppress that high voltage. OK.
The switch was in series and the diode is in parallel with the coil.
When the switch opens, the diode provides a path for the current to continue in the same direction through the coil, thereby maintaing the flux level inside the coil.

First question: What happens to the energy that warms up the flywheel diode because of that current going through the diode when there is no diode? Just a high voltage spike does not warm up anything, doesn't it?
It is used up to generate light, EMI and ionize air molecules as well as break down the chemical bonds of the switch contacts.
Whatever current remains (it cannot be completely zero) still goes into resistive heating.

Second question: What could happen when the suppression of that high voltage spike is done by short-circuiting a second coil on the same magnetic core?
The second coil takes over the job of maintaining the magnetic flux level by the virtue of its electric current flow.

That means, we disconnect the primary coil from the current source, then the magnetic field starts to collapse and wants to generate high voltage in both coils. But before that can happen we short-circuit the secondary coil (perhaps by connecting a load to it), not the primary coil. In this case what is the direction of the current and what is the direction of the magnetic field?
The direction of the magnetic field is maintained by the secondary coil.
The direction of current in the secondary coil depends on the direction in which that coil is wound.  If secondary is wound in the same direction as the primary coil, then their current directions are identical.

This is how a flyback "transformer" works. 
First the rising current flowing in the primary winding gradually builds up magnetic flux inside the common core. While the transformer is being charged with energy in that manner, the current in the secondary does not flow because a diode connected in series blocks the secondary current. 

If the diode was shorted, then a simultaneous reverse current would flow in the secondary winding.  This current would work against the the work of the primary winding, that tries to increase the magnetic flux inside the common core. 
...but the diode is there, thus the secondary does not get a chance to oppose the increase of flux being caused by the primary.

Now, when the primary winding is interrupted by some kind of switch, the magnetic flux in the common core had been built up to a high level and must stay at that level somehow (Lenz law).  Since the current in the primary cannot maintain it anymore, the secondary takes over that job. This time the job of the secondary current is to prevent the decrease of the magnetic flux in the common core.  Consequently, the voltage across the secondary suddenly reverses, the secondary diode starts conducting and current starts flowing in the secondary in the forward direction (in the same direction as was flowing in the primary winding - assuming that the primary and secondary were wound in the same direction).

Note, that primary and secondary currents do not flow at the same time in the Flyback "transformer".
In a "true" transformer, those two currents do flow simultaneously -  that is the major difference between these two types of transformers.

When we draw current from the secondary coil of a transformer just at that moment when the primary coil is not connected to the current source then what about Lenz Law? Is it still valid?
Yes, the current "drawn" from the secondary maintains the previous magnetic flux level.

And wouldn't that be a nice job for two thyristors (or transistors)? One connects the primary coil of a transformer to a current source, the other one connects the secondary coil of that transformer to the load. Not at the same time,
If the switch-over is not done simultaneously, then there will be a small time period during which electric current will be interrupted in both the primary and secondary winding. 
Mr. Lenz will run up and say.   Aaaaaa!  Nothing is maintaining the flux level, the flux is falling, we can't have that ! 
What shall we do?  Hmm, the current in the primary winding cannot maintain the flux level because the primary is interrupted, the secondary winding cannot maintain the flux level because the secondary is interrupted.
So enter the panic mode and start increasing the voltage across the primary and secondary windings until the voltage is so high that something breaks down and starts conducting.  Usually it will be the poor transistor or thyristor ...or air ...or insulation.  Something's got to give eventually and start conducting, thereby maintaining the current in one of the windings and consequently the magnetic flux inside it.

Zeitmaschine

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #21002 on: February 05, 2014, 02:05:04 AM »
The second coil takes over the job of maintaining the magnetic flux level by the virtue of its electric current flow.

Thanks for that profound answer. But my point is this: The connected primary coil creates a magnetic field in the core of a transformer. Now we disconnect that coil and quickly connect a load to the secondary coil. Then the collapsing magnetic field generates a current through that coil and the load. So the load is running actually on a collapsing magnetic field rather than on a building magnetic field. When the field has collapsed it is zero and the current stops to run trough the secondary coil. Now we connect the primary coil again and disconnect the load from the secondary coil. That means the power source that provides the current for the primary coil »sees« each time it is connected just an idle running transformer with no load connected to the secondary coil. Thus in that operation mode that transformer should only need the current as if it were not connected to any load on the secondary coil (idle) when in fact it is connected to a load.

But maybe I'm confusing here something ...  ???

stivep

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Farmhand

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #21004 on: February 05, 2014, 06:07:50 AM »
Thanks for that profound answer. But my point is this: The connected primary coil creates a magnetic field in the core of a transformer. Now we disconnect that coil and quickly connect a load to the secondary coil. Then the collapsing magnetic field generates a current through that coil and the load. So the load is running actually on a collapsing magnetic field rather than on a building magnetic field. When the field has collapsed it is zero and the current stops to run trough the secondary coil. Now we connect the primary coil again and disconnect the load from the secondary coil. That means the power source that provides the current for the primary coil »sees« each time it is connected just an idle running transformer with no load connected to the secondary coil. Thus in that operation mode that transformer should only need the current as if it were not connected to any load on the secondary coil (idle) when in fact it is connected to a load.

But maybe I'm confusing here something ...  ???

To simplify that we only need one switch, a coil, a diode and a load, or all together a "Boost converter", the coil gets charged with no "load" then it discharges to a higher voltage with the load attached, so the load is run from the "field collapse". Here's the problem as I see it, many of us use terms differently, to me "Back emf" is the same as "counter emf" and happens in any wire or coil any time a current is flowing in it ( but only when the current is flowing ) the back emf or counter emf first happen together with the applied emf when the coil is charging.

But to "me" the energy released from the coil's magnetic field when the coil is switched is the "inductive energy release" or "the coil discharge" this happens after the coil is switched off from the supply. And being that there is current and wire involved in most cases of coil discharge then as the coil discharges and current flows, the current in that instance also get's a visit from Mr Lenz, meaning the coil discharge also faces back emf or counter emf in the conductor it flows through.

In HF circuits this (exchange between magnetic field and current) is the root cause of ringing in the wires in the circuitry and why they need to be kept short.

Cheers

P.S. Believe it or not I made a solar battery conditioner that produced such powerful cap discharges into a battery which caused rapid current spikes of several amps through a pair of wires about 1 meter long and the ringing in the wires could be heard as well as picked up on my scope as a radio signal. EMR or EMI was too much without some shielding.
The sudden discharges caused an effect that could make some people ill. And it was random frequency based on power supplied.

..


verpies

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #21005 on: February 05, 2014, 11:59:22 AM »
Thanks for that profound answer. But my point is this: The connected primary coil creates a magnetic field in the core of a transformer.
Yes. Let's call the time to "charge up" the core with the magnetic flux, the T1.

Now we disconnect that coil and quickly connect a load to the secondary coil. Then the collapsing magnetic field generates a current through that coil and the load. So the load is running actually on a collapsing magnetic field rather than on a building magnetic field.
Yes

When the field has collapsed, it is zero <warning> and the current stops to run trough the secondary coil.
That's assuming a discontinuous mode of operation.
Note that in such mode, the time it takes for the secondary current to decrease to zero depends on the load connected to the secondary.  Let's call that time T2.

Now we connect the primary coil again and disconnect the load from the secondary coil. That means the power source that provides the current for the primary coil »sees« each time it is connected just an idle running transformer
Essentially yes, but it would be more accurate to state, that the power source »sees« just an inductor, because for all intents and purposes the secondary winding does not exist while the core is being "charged up" with magnetic flux during T1.

Thus in that operation mode that transformer should only need the current as if it were not connected to any load on the secondary coil (idle) when in fact it is connected to a load.
That's true. In the Flyback mode of operation (when pri & sec currents do not flow simultaneously) the T1 time is independent of the load connected to the secondary.  Because of this, the average power and energy delivered by the power source during T1 is constant (over that interval).

But maybe I'm confusing here something ...  ???
Yes, you are confusing the power over one T1 cycle with the average power over multiple T1+T2 cycles.
The power during T1 is constant but the power during T2 is not (it varies with the load).
If T2 is shorter then the whole T1+T2 cycle becomes shorter and the primary winding gets the chance to charge the core with magnetic flux more frequently. More frequent charging cycles mean more average power drawn from the power supply over multiple T1 charging cycles :(

verpies

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #21006 on: February 05, 2014, 12:09:50 PM »
Believe it or not I made a solar battery conditioner that produced such powerful cap discharges into a battery which caused rapid current spikes of several amps through a pair of wires about 1 meter long and the ringing in the wires could be heard as well as picked up on my scope as a radio signal. EMR or EMI was too much without some shielding.
The sudden discharges caused an effect that could make some people ill. And it was random frequency based on power supplied.
What was switching these current spikes (transistor, spark gap, etc...) ?
What was the peak current of the spike ?
Were those wires parallel or twisted ?  How far apart were they ?

Zeitmaschine

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #21007 on: February 05, 2014, 01:30:14 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e92yz5Y1img&feature=youtu.be

To me that device looks too complicated. Why has SR193 no need for all that coils?

It would be interesting to measure the ground current going through that ground wire. Or to see what happens when the ground wire is disconnected while the device is running.

Here's the problem as I see it, many of us use terms differently, to me "Back emf" is the same as "counter emf" and happens in any wire or coil any time a current is flowing in it ( but only when the current is flowing ) the back emf or counter emf first happen together with the applied emf when the coil is charging.

»The electromagnet will store energy when powered and will generate a “back EMF”, or counter EMF (CEMF), when the supply is switched off.« That's the definition of that website.

Yes, you are confusing the power over one T1 cycle with the average power over multiple T1+T2 cycles.
The power during T1 is constant but the power during T2 is not (it varies with the load).
If T2 is shorter then the whole T1+T2 cycle becomes shorter and the primary winding gets the chance to charge the core with magnetic flux more frequently. More frequent charging cycles mean more average power drawn from the power supply over multiple T1 charging cycles :(

But I'm sure the answer lies somewhere in here. If T2 is shorter than T1 doesn't that mean it generates more current because the faster the magnetic field collapses (due to the load on the secondary coil) the higher the voltage/current in that coil? When I move a permanent magnet through a coil fast then that coil generates more current compared with a slow moving magnet. To put it another way: The magnetic field builds up slowly because of the low current going through the primary coil but it collapses fast due to the high load current going through the secondary coil. Does that compensate one another or not? Even if it compensates then could a fast collapsing field perhaps attract (or deflect) additional electrons (from ground or a metallic object) so the output current gets boosted?

A second thought: The more load connected to the secondary coil the more current goes through that coil the faster the magnetic field collapses the more electrons are deflected from ground into the circuit the more the current gets boosted. Could that be correct? 

This is still confusing.

verpies

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #21008 on: February 05, 2014, 01:57:08 PM »
»The electromagnet will store energy when powered and will generate a “back EMF”, or counter EMF (CEMF), when the supply is switched off.« That's the definition of that website.
That is such a poor choice of words :(
I don't like it because it suggests that this "back EMF" is a voltage that would cause a flow of current through the electromagnet in the backward direction, if that current was allowed to flow.

In fact the opposite is true:  If the current caused by this "back EMF" is allowed to flow, then it will flow through the electromagnet in the same direction as before.

zcsaba77

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #21009 on: February 05, 2014, 02:19:29 PM »
I'd need to know the frequency to be able to answer that question.

example:
40; 80; 120; 500; 1000 kHz

its reason because I want to know how deep inside bulb in wolfram tread, I watched one of Igor's video, he immerse to water fully and take out and again immerse, if bulb rise normaly like on use main power, 200-300w bulb raise temperature inmediatly, and his bulb glass not broke/explode in water, I think bulb on HF produce less heat, but it is my theory, maybe wrong

verpies

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #21010 on: February 05, 2014, 03:06:16 PM »
If T2 is shorter than T1 doesn't that mean it generates more current because the faster the magnetic field collapses (due to the load on the secondary coil) the higher the voltage/current in that coil?
It depends on the turn ratio between the secondary and primary winding (N2/N1).
Generally the magnetomotive force created by the secondary winding must be equal to tthe magnetomotive force created by the primary winding before the switch-over. Mathematically that's N2I2 = N1I1.

This means that if the turn ratio is 1:1, then the initial current in the secondary will be the same as the final current in the primary, or I2(INITIAL) = I1(FINAL).

However the decay rate of this current will be different.  For a resistive load it will have an exponential decay shape.  Precisely the time-reversed shape of the charging current shown here

Mathematically I2(t) = I2(INITIAL) / et/τ  where τ = L2/R2  is a time constant.
Note, that the larger Tau (τ) is the slower the current decays in the secondary winding.
Since in general Tau = L/R then it becomes clear that lower resistance load will cause slower decay of current.  If the resistance were zero (as in a superconducting winding) then the current in the secondary winding would never decay and no energy would be dissipated.

In other words, higher resistance load across the secondary winding causes faster decay of current in that winding, but the initial secondary current will always be the same (regardless of resistance R2 !).
For load resistances grater than zero, the amount of energy dissipated in the load will always be the same for the same number of time constants Tau (τ) regardless how long one Tau is.  For infinitely long time, the entire dissipated energy will approach ½L2I2(INITIAL)2 .

When I move a permanent magnet through a coil fast then that coil generates more current compared with a slow moving magnet.
Rather it generates higher EMF compared with a slow moving magnet.  This EMF might cause a flow of current if it can find a suitable conductive path.  The magnitude of this current is determined by the good old Ohm's law I = EMF / R.

To put it another way: The magnetic field builds up slowly because of the low current going through the primary coil
No, the primary current will always increase up to the V1/R1 limit in the end. 
How quickly it will build up is determined by the inductance of the primary winding and its resistance.  The full equation is I1(t) = (V1/R1) * [ 1 - (1/et/τ) ]  where τ=L1/R1.

but it collapses fast due to the high load current going through the secondary coil.
Depends what you understand by "high load".  If "high load" means "high resistance" then the magnetic field will collapse faster for higher resistances than for lower resistances.  Mathematically that field is proportional to the secondary magnetomotive force (secondary current * secondary turns) and the secondary current decays as I2(t) = I2(INITIAL) / et/τ  where τ=L2/R2.

Does that compensate one another or not?
I cannot answer that in the light of the statements made above.  Try restating the question.

could a fast collapsing field perhaps attract (or deflect) additional electrons (from ground or a metallic object)
A varying magnetic field will accelerate even static electrons, albeit not for free.

Farmhand

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #21011 on: February 05, 2014, 03:32:35 PM »
What was switching these current spikes (transistor, spark gap, etc...) ?
What was the peak current of the spike ?
Were those wires parallel or twisted ?  How far apart were they ?

It ia switched by mosfes, IRFL3705N, the solar input charges a cap and the cap gets switched when the desired voltage is reached, when the solar input went low voltage then a boost converter kicks in and boosts the voltage in the cap to the desired voltage for conditioning pulses.

Not sure of the max current of the spikes but I guess it could be approximated.

The thick wires to the battery were separate and at random distance apart, average about 6 inches I guess.

Circuit drawing attached. It's the code that does the trick. I'm an amateur.  :)

..

Dave45

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #21012 on: February 05, 2014, 03:37:53 PM »
That is such a poor choice of words :(
I don't like it because it suggests that this "back EMF" is a voltage that would cause a flow of current through the electromagnet in the backward direction, if that current was allowed to flow.

In fact the opposite is true:  If the current caused by this "back EMF" is allowed to flow, then it will flow through the electromagnet in the same direction as before.
Not really we can have high voltage without current and hi current without voltage, neither can do work without the other, its a combination of both.



stivep

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #21013 on: February 05, 2014, 03:39:33 PM »







Responses under the video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e92yz5Y1img#t=1
Quote
shubus9 hours ago







 
The schematic presented suggests something else to me.  It suggests a hidden  outside antenna tuned to a resonant frequency identical to the device we see in this video. Hence most of the components are subterfuge. May not be whats going, but that's what it suggest to me.  Boy, would I love to be all wet on this!





stivep1

1 second ago (edited)


 
I do not know who to respond first :)
In the dipole antenna you heave nodes of high voltage low current and  reverse.



So when you take probe in your hand and try to slide  it along the wire of the antenna -( it could be any fluorescent or even small tungsten 10W  light-bulb) ,you will see the nodes and anti-nodes by touching (or in close proximity) to that lightbulb  along the wire.


However, your hand there becomes  a part of your resonant circuit as well.
To make it more interesting: Vasmus is all around the device,the voltage on the "ground" wire is not high and frequency of lightbulb  response is low.
There is no evidence of any ,very unique - special  point  where node, is present . So if we try to assign wire ,that is placed next to the heater, as part of dipole antenna with nods/antinodes on it. Than  movement of any body around the structure,  should create change in electromagnetic field (so is change of that temporary structure properties.)  AND THAT IS NOT HAPPENING  SO I CAN NOT DISMISS THIS DEVICE BASED ON ANTENNA PROPERTIES OF THE WIRE THAT IS NEXT TO RADIATOR.
IF THERE WOULD BE ANY HIDDEN TRANSMITTER THAN THE AMOUNT OF POWER FROM IT SHOULD BE OF SIGNIFICANT LEVEL TO CREATE THIS PHENOMENA. AS FOR NOW  THE DEVICE LOOKS  LEGIT TO ME.






Wesley

verpies

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #21014 on: February 05, 2014, 03:43:48 PM »
Not really we can have high voltage without current and hi current without voltage, neither can do work without the other, its a combination of both.
Yes, but that is beside the point.
The point was that "back EMF" does not cause the current through the inductor to flow backwards (if it is allowed to flow at all).