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Author Topic: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze  (Read 16498025 times)

verpies

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #9765 on: December 13, 2011, 03:48:23 PM »
Video to be seen here:  http://youtu.be/Hvn_WpjiLNQ

The input power measurement of this device is still only a rough estimate. If the current and voltage you measured are 630mA_rms and 24.56V_rms and the voltmeters are not lying to you at that frequency,  then the input power is indeed no more than 15.5W_avg.
Most likely it is less than 15W, because the current and voltage do not appear to be in phase.

This accuracy might be good enough for some, but I will press on for more in order to set an example for future devices and measurements.

Indeed, the scope appears 'dumb" because it multiples the graphical vertical position (vertical offsets) instead of the DC offsets (if any) of the measured signals. 
This pathological behavior of the scope can be seen at 4m32sec of the video where you "move the red probe downwards" (current trace) and the yellow trace (voltage trace) downwards too. 
Notice that the green trace also moves down when you lower the vertical position (vertical offset) of the current or voltage

This movement of the green trace should not be happening because the input signals are not changing  (neither the DC offset nor the amplitude of the current or voltage waveform is changed by these adjustments).
Thus it is evident that your scope is multiplying the graphical positions of your traces, not the real input signals. 
This is exactly what I have suspected in the quote below:

Maybe you scope is a little dumb and multiplies the vertical offsets of Ch1 and Ch2.
 I write "dumb" because the vertical offset on the scope's screen is not the same as DC offset of the signal.
 The former is a graphical property of the scope's trace display and the latter is the property of the measured signal.
 
 We do not want to multiply the artificial graphical vertical offsets on the scope's display but we do want to multiply the real DC offsets of the signals (if any exist).

This is a big problem because we do not know where is the zero on the Y-axis for the current and voltage when the scope does the multiplication. 
If I were you I already would be writing to the scope's manufacturer for a new firmware that would multiply the real input signals and not the traces on the screen.  While at at, I would ask for separate graphical positioning and scaling of the resulting green MATH trace.

But for now, could you make this simple experiment with your scope and the 2 batteries connected separately to the 2 channels:
  Ch1             Ch2             Ch1*Ch2
----------------------------------------------
+12VDC      +12VDC       +144
+12VDC       -12VDC        -144
-12VDC       +12VDC        -144
-12VDC       -12VDC        +144

...and determine where is the zero on the Y-axis when the graphical multiplication is done.

If you make this little effort the power measurements will become more meaningful for all of us, including yourself.

semenihin-77

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #9766 on: December 13, 2011, 04:39:38 PM »
Семенихин! >:( 200000р. -- 6 322,60 $

поставь цену по божественней
продайте людям за 1т.р.

Это аукцион , цена с 1 Ñ‚.Ñ€. и начинается  ;)

jbignes5

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #9767 on: December 13, 2011, 04:45:34 PM »
The input power measurement of this device is still only a rough estimate. If the current and voltage you measured are 630mA_rms and 24.56V_rms and the voltmeters are not lying to you at that frequency,  then the input power is indeed no more than 15.5W_avg.
Most likely it is less than 15W, because the current and voltage do not appear to be in phase.

This accuracy might be good enough for some, but I will press on for more in order to set an example for future devices and measurements.

Indeed, the scope appears 'dumb" because it multiples the graphical vertical position (vertical offsets) instead of the DC offsets (if any) of the measured signals. 
This pathological behavior of the scope can be seen at 4m32sec of the video where you "move the red probe downwards" (current trace) and the yellow trace (voltage trace) downwards too. 
Notice that the green trace also moves down when you lower the vertical position (vertical offset) of the current or voltage

This movement of the green trace should not be happening because the input signals are not changing  (neither the DC offset nor the amplitude of the current or voltage waveform is changed by these adjustments).
Thus it is evident that your scope is multiplying the graphical positions of your traces, not the real input signals. 
This is exactly what I have suspected in the quote below:

This is a big problem because we do not know where is the zero on the Y-axis for the current and voltage when the scope does the multiplication. 
If I were you I already would be writing to the scope's manufacturer for a new firmware that would multiply the real input signals and not the traces on the screen.  While at at, I would ask for separate graphical positioning and scaling of the resulting green MATH trace.

But for now, could you make this simple experiment with your scope and the 2 batteries connected separately to the 2 channels:
  Ch1             Ch2             Ch1*Ch2
----------------------------------------------
+12VDC      +12VDC       +144
+12VDC       -12VDC        -144
-12VDC       +12VDC        -144
-12VDC       -12VDC        +144

...and determine where is the zero on the Y-axis when the graphical multiplication is done.

If you make this little effort the power measurements will become more meaningful for all of us, including yourself.


 Making measurements in these fields is pointless unless you use RF shielding. Static RF shielding. The current doesn't like to stay even with dielectrics. It is loosely bound in there and takes very little to coax out of the plastic around it. But we should be able to test static shielding. Try Aluminum foil at first. After all it is most active in this field. Thats what the exciters do. They excite aluminum in a voltage only way. Maybe we can use this to our advantage. Everything we do should have static shielding at this point. It would negate near 100% of leakage and increase efficiency by huge amounts. Do not attach the static shielding in any way to the real ground or anything. We want the same effect as in the static experiments we see with charging surfaces and that is to only excite the surface to reflect an image of the energy that is present. This will only work up to the mass of the device and the matter's ability to hold together. Go beyond that tolerance and it will melt like a fuse. Pop and it's over. But we need to pay attention to sizes of wires and induction rules. Geometry being something high on the list as well.

 Hey has anyone tried putting a magnet on the ferrite rod yet?

verpies

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #9768 on: December 13, 2011, 05:04:13 PM »
Making measurements in these fields is pointless unless you use RF shielding.

The oscilloscope leads are coaxially shielded.
There is not much RF radiation at the input to this device.  However there is strong RF radiation at its output.
Input and output waveforms should not be confused.
 
 The HV output of this device presents danger to the test equipment. 
 Its power output should be measured with a simple wattmeter, such as this one:
 http://jnaudin.free.fr/kapagen/kapagen33pio.htm
 
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 06:21:21 PM by verpies »

jbignes5

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #9769 on: December 13, 2011, 05:15:57 PM »
The oscilloscope leads are coaxially shielded.
There is not much RF radiation at the input to this device.  However there is strong RF radiation at its output.
Input and output waveforms should not be confused.
 
 The HV output of this device presents danger to the test equipment. 
 It power should be measured with a simple wattmeter, such as this one:
 http://jnaudin.free.fr/kapagen/kapagen33pio.htm


 Umm shielded with the ground, which they are using.. STATIC shielding is the only way to keep this stuff out. Not grounded shielding. This is the problem I am thinking. This is messing up the ground signal and screwing with the meters and scopes. By putting an additional shielding around the devices we will be able to shield that field partly from the measuring devices and get a truer picture.

baroutologos

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #9770 on: December 13, 2011, 06:36:59 PM »
Playing with kachers and ferrites, i noticed another thing.

When the ferrite rod is properly inserted to the Kacher coil, and by touching with the screw driver the HV output, the ferrite rings! Yeap, it rings down to accoustic level. It does like a small metallic buzz or better a clinging sound. Obviously this is due to magnetostriction properties of some ferrites, whereas the spark produces all kind of frequencies from high to low audio level ones.

I noticed also, the effect peaks towards saturation. Adding more rods, gradually diminishes the effect. Also by saying the rod sould be insterted properly, i mean slowly sliding it inside and finding the sweet spot that the clinging sound climaxes. Actually in one instance, by touching with the screw driver the hot part and making an instant tiny spark (not streamer since in saturation Kacher runs very inefficient and ferrite gets hot) i managed to hear the clinging sound for 1-2 secs!, while spark is discontinued. :)

Is it illusion or my ears are true i cannot say for sure. I invited another witness to hear the effect and she claimed the same thing. I tried to make a video, but my cam is not "hearing" the subtle ringing ferrite.
In case anyone interested in hearing the effect, he must asseble the kacher in order to circulate some current instead going for plain high voltage based on the stray capacitance of the coil. In my case, i added to the usual coil, (except from the ferrite rod) 5 x 150pf 16Kv caps in series. (the red ones)
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 08:02:05 PM by baroutologos »

Kator01

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #9771 on: December 13, 2011, 07:44:07 PM »
@ All,

I did some more measurements on the input of my Delamorto's device replication.
I used better leads and moved the kachercoil at some distance from my measuring/supply equipment.
Now i can use my multimeter's for doing voltage and current measurements together with my scope.

Result is that the device pulls about 15 Watt.

So at these frequencies, use good solid leads/clamps, as the normally used crocodile type testleads induce much stray capacitance/resistance.

Video to be seen here:  http://youtu.be/Hvn_WpjiLNQ



Inspired by Woopy's result, i pushed on and made a quick and dirty setup like Delamorto using a split copper pipe (same length as secondary coil) and a thirth coil (10 turns / 1.5mm wire) attached to a 220V / 10W bulb with a 345pF variable capacitor parallel.
I use no ferrite in the copper pipe yet.

Result is that this bulb, after tuning, lights up at about 60% of its normal brightness (6 W)
I made some scope measurements of the output voltage across the bulb (392V PP at 1.2Mhz), and the current through a 1 Ohm resistor (172mA PP), but it is hard to arrive to a firm wattage statement with these values.

Video to be seen here:  http://youtu.be/xprfMwZCXxw

Offcource, further improvements should be done to maximize the output, but right now i seems the efficiency of my device is around (15/6=) 40%

Regards Itsu

Hey Itsu,

time for filters. See attachment. This is from Stiffler ESEG-Setup. Filter should be implemented both - one in the supply-path and one in the path to your meters.

Regards

Kator01

jbignes5

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #9772 on: December 13, 2011, 08:03:11 PM »
Hey Itsu,

time for filters. See attachment. This is from Stiffler ESEG-Setup. Filter should be implemented both - one in the supply-path and one in the path to your meters.

Regards

Kator01


 I don't know if filters are gonna work. We are dealing with a field here and not anything in the wires.

ronotte

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #9773 on: December 13, 2011, 08:35:51 PM »
Playing with my Cacher I noted some interesting features:
1 - I have been unable to rectify voltage for the lamp load. I tested both single diode and bridge diode unsuccesfully with and without a levelling capacitor. It is like impossible to drive any load different from the incandescence lamp. Simply the cacher does not work...not found a way to restart it in the new conditions.
2 - Open voltage (without the 240V/60W lamp) is very high, about 600V at 1.6MHz.
3 - Overall efficiency is for operation with only a small slitted Cu tube without ferrite core and a small ferrite core located in correspondence of the location of the 3 coils.
4 - marginal sweet points are with a 5 cm long Cu tube located approximately at the middle of the magnifier coil
5 - Equivalent operation (200V @1.6MHz measured on lamp load) found in using 2 x spiral coil or 2 x linear coils.
6 - any neon lamp put at 20cm distance from the device is lit without lowering the incadescence lamp luminosity.
7 - running the scope's probe along the magnifier coil does show the tipical 1/4 wave voltage distribution as expected. The node of course is at the magnifier beginning
8 - running a simple 1 turn wire loop shunted by a small lamp does light from about the half lenght of the coil and max nearing the initial node.
It is also interesting to note that irrespective of any variation I have been unable to rise the loaded voltage of 200Vpp. I am waiting now to receive the new transistor I ordered with a much higher ft for seeing if any difference.
Roberto

xenomorphlabs

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #9774 on: December 13, 2011, 08:59:55 PM »
Playing with kachers and ferrites, i noticed another thing.

When the ferrite rod is properly inserted to the Kacher coil, and by touching with the screw driver the HV output, the ferrite rings! Yeap, it rings down to accoustic level. It does like a small metallic buzz or better a clinging sound. Obviously this is due to magnetostriction properties of some ferrites, whereas the spark produces all kind of frequencies from high to low audio level ones.

I noticed also, the effect peaks towards saturation. Adding more rods, gradually diminishes the effect. Also by saying the rod sould be insterted properly, i mean slowly sliding it inside and finding the sweet spot that the clinging sound climaxes. Actually in one instance, by touching with the screw driver the hot part and making an instant tiny spark (not streamer since in saturation Kacher runs very inefficient and ferrite gets hot) i managed to hear the clinging sound for 1-2 secs!, while spark is discontinued. :)

Is it illusion or my ears are true i cannot say for sure. I invited another witness to hear the effect and she claimed the same thing. I tried to make a video, but my cam is not "hearing" the subtle ringing ferrite.
In case anyone interested in hearing the effect, he must asseble the kacher in order to circulate some current instead going for plain high voltage based on the stray capacitance of the coil. In my case, i added to the usual coil, (except from the ferrite rod) 5 x 150pf 16Kv caps in series. (the red ones)

I was able to perceive an audio range ringing too sometimes with this set-up.
Good that you brought that up. When i was hearing it, i kept thinking that it actually can't be
happening because the resonance frequency of the circuit can impossibly be in the audible range.
This is the only thing that i could think of being responsible for the non-linear behaviour in
Delamorto's Set-up (Ferroresonance)

itsu

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #9775 on: December 13, 2011, 09:35:09 PM »

Quote
Hey Itsu,

time for filters. See attachment. This is from Stiffler ESEG-Setup. Filter should be implemented both - one in the supply-path and one in the path to your meters.

Regards


Thanks kator01,

i tried some filtering yesterday by putting chokes in the  + and - leads near the batteries with
and without some decoupling capacitors (0.1uF), but this made my kachercoil to stop working :-( ??!!
Somehow it seems that my kacher generator needs the supply voltage to oscillate with it.
Anyway, i will look into this diagram the next days.

Regards Itsu

Jimboot

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #9776 on: December 13, 2011, 10:23:13 PM »


 Oh whoever put the rodin coil on top of the Tesla coil well what about driving it from the bottom as the primary? The Rodin type coils have documented increased magnetic response. I bet we could get additional 20-40% there... I'm not sure it is the correct geometry come to think of it. The coils run sideways when you insert a magnet. Dang.. It would be worth a try though.


Yep- didn't oscillate. No typical CFL light up.

John M

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #9777 on: December 14, 2011, 12:55:39 AM »
Playing with my Cacher I noted some interesting features:
1 - I have been unable to rectify voltage for the lamp load. I tested both single diode and bridge diode unsuccesfully with and without a levelling capacitor. It is like impossible to drive any load different from the incandescence lamp. Simply the cacher does not work...not found a way to restart it in the new conditions.
2 - Open voltage (without the 240V/60W lamp) is very high, about 600V at 1.6MHz.
3 - Overall efficiency is for operation with only a small slitted Cu tube without ferrite core and a small ferrite core located in correspondence of the location of the 3 coils.
4 - marginal sweet points are with a 5 cm long Cu tube located approximately at the middle of the magnifier coil
5 - Equivalent operation (200V @1.6MHz measured on lamp load) found in using 2 x spiral coil or 2 x linear coils.
6 - any neon lamp put at 20cm distance from the device is lit without lowering the incadescence lamp luminosity.
7 - running the scope's probe along the magnifier coil does show the tipical 1/4 wave voltage distribution as expected. The node of course is at the magnifier beginning
8 - running a simple 1 turn wire loop shunted by a small lamp does light from about the half lenght of the coil and max nearing the initial node.
It is also interesting to note that irrespective of any variation I have been unable to rise the loaded voltage of 200Vpp. I am waiting now to receive the new transistor I ordered with a much higher ft for seeing if any difference.
Roberto


You mentioned that a resistive load only works. On page 5-19 (attached document) under comments, it mentions that too much or too low of a load will produce no power. If that is true this might be related to what you experienced. I haven't even built a working Tesla coil yet, so I am way behind a lot of people here.

John



wattsup

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #9778 on: December 14, 2011, 12:58:54 AM »
@all

I'm not do'in the Kacher thing cause too much on the plate already.

But I do have a request for anyone willing to try it.

The primary pancake coil let's say is 24" long. Make another coil of the same length but just wound over a pencil. Then connect it in series with the pancake coil on the side that is not going to the transistor. See if there is any increase in output. If you can add another pencil coil again in series to the two already there and see again if any increase in output.

wattsup

PS: Since I have not heard from anyone regarding the new WNYg thread, I will not open it and just let things ride the way they will. Once I receive my new FBT I will continue but for now, I am looking for a circuit that I can plug my FG and Power Supply to enable better frequency hunting then doing this fixed circuit pulsing. Fixed circuit pulsing is like trying to find that one speck of sand on the beach. You could be 100 Hz away from fantastic outputs and never know it. Even if you spend the whole day swapping cap values, you will rarely find the right frequency. So I have to go the FG route to pulse my FBT. 

jbignes5

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #9779 on: December 14, 2011, 01:19:50 AM »
@JimBoot...  Figured that.. Too bad. The rodin coil looked good..