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Author Topic: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze  (Read 16506784 times)

yfree

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #14475 on: October 15, 2012, 03:22:18 AM »
OK Yfree. You sound as if you've done it. Can you prove it?
 Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
  Prove it.
If you prove it, we'll all replicate.

All I did was to measure the field distribution in the spool type device, with circular neodymium magnets forming the axle of the spool. The field had highest intensity at the perimeter of the magnetic steel disk and was decreasing toward the centre of the disk. This is exactly as the paper says.
The field was measured close to the inner disk surface, where the active material will be positioned (not middle between the disks). This is all for now.
However, verpies claims that this is the other way round. I do not see how.

yfree

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #14476 on: October 15, 2012, 03:31:10 AM »
Oh, the radial flux density gradient exists, all right - it's just in the opposite direction.
I verified it experimentally, too.

The way it is analyzed in the paper is flawed.
I agree that the two parallel disks can be conceptually decomposed into many concentric cylinders.
However I stop agreeing when it is written that a magnetic flux distributed over the crossectional area of a larger cylinder leads to a greater flux density than the same flux distributed over a smaller area. of a smaller cylinder... and that is without considering the effect of the extra reluctance that the flux has to travel to get from the central magnet to the more outer cylinders.

You must have measured the field distribution centrally between the disks. This is of no interest.
The field has to be measured close to the inner surface of the disks.

verpies

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #14477 on: October 15, 2012, 11:29:07 AM »
However, verpies claims that this is the other way round. I do not see how.
Simply, magnetic flux density B=Φ/A

Since the crossectional area of the outer cylinder (A2) is greater than the area of the inner cylinder (A1) then it follows that Φ/A2 < Φ/A1 and respectively B2<B1

The above reasoning assumes that the flux Φ supplied to the outer cylinder, by the central coaxial magnet, is the same as the flux supplied to the inner cylinder,
In fact the outer cylinder receives less flux because the path from the magnet to the outer cylinder (through the ferromagnetic material) is longer thus the reluctance of this path is higher and according to the Hopkinson Law Φ=MMF/R, the flux supplied to the outer cylinder is lower. (where the coaxial central magnet/coil is the source of MMF).
Note that all of the flux paths from the magnet to the outer cylinders are shared with the flux paths to the inner cylinders, but the flux paths to the outer cylinders are longer (more reluctance)

jbignes5

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #14478 on: October 15, 2012, 02:25:48 PM »
 And now yfree you will see that he didn't do anything. His math is telling him it is not so. Verpies is an pencil engineer. He does very few experiments if any at all.


 This is what has kept us from looking and saying What is going on here. Very few experiment anymore. Very few confirm that what has been proposed is actually reality. Some just blindly believe and that is all the effort you will get from them. Well actually they save a lot of energy pounding on tables saying this theory is the Right one instead of actually doing the experiment. They don't want to know the truth they are ok with the theories they have. And because they have "Math" behind them and we can not see the real event then no one can challenge their beliefs. No matter what we show as experimental proof.

 The part that gets me is they always focus on the magnetic but don't ever look at the electric. Even though both phenomena are present and active.

 Lets check something here.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0wbEl7caTY&feature=bf_prev&list=PLAAB73CD55374CE8A

 What if we don't move the magnet but cause a magnetic shield by shorting a coil then unshorting a coil wound around a magnet. Would this get us somewhere? What if we replace the magnet with another coil?

 Also pay special attention to the emf and what it really is. Electro is the key word. Potential difference is another key aspect. What initiates the current?

wasabi

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #14479 on: October 15, 2012, 03:18:46 PM »
And because they have "Math" behind them and we can not see the real event then no one can challenge their beliefs. No matter what we show as experimental proof.
The part that gets me is they always focus on the magnetic but don't ever look at the electric. Even though both phenomena are present and active.
It's ridiculous how you can plug your aversion to math and your obsession with the electric field into a purely magnetostatic problem. 
Also, I am surprised that this time you limited yourself only to personal bashing and skipped the usual hero worship.

Why don't we make a bet that you will stop posting to this thread, once and for all, if the flux density at the disk surface indeed is decreasing with increasing distance (>r1) from the symmetry axis in the Magnetic Spool system mentioned by yfree.

I will accept an empirical or theoretical proof to the magnetostatic problem defined in the PDF attachment.
Of course, an empirical evidence always trumps a theoretical proof.

Our peers can be our judges. The loser leaves this thread permanently.

Do you accept?

wasabi

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #14480 on: October 15, 2012, 03:55:13 PM »
And now yfree you will see that he didn't do anything. His math is telling him it is not so.
This is for the same reason why you won't build an antigravity machine out of bread, butter and a cat.

You have the knowledge and experience that tells you that it is a waste of your time and resources to experiment with that.
Other people have even more knowledge than you and won't attempt ridiculous experiments for the same reason.

It makes sense to experiment with new unknown phenomena - but not with bread and butter.
How can you blame somebody for already knowing how bread and butter interact together ? ...or how magnetostatic circuits work?

BTW: I have never read that this guy claimed that yfree's Magnetic Spool will not work.  He just noticed that the radial flux density gradient has a different direction.

yfree

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #14481 on: October 15, 2012, 04:24:50 PM »
Simply, magnetic flux density B=Φ/A

Since the crossectional area of the outer cylinder (A2) is greater than the area of the inner cylinder (A1) then it follows that Φ/A2 < Φ/A1 and respectively B2<B1

The above reasoning assumes that the flux Φ supplied to the outer cylinder, by the central coaxial magnet, is the same as the flux supplied to the inner cylinder,
In fact the outer cylinder receives less flux because the path from the magnet to the outer cylinder (through the ferromagnetic material) is longer thus the reluctance of this path is higher and according to the Hopkinson Law Φ=MMF/R, the flux supplied to the outer cylinder is lower. (where the coaxial central magnet/coil is the source of MMF).
Note that all of the flux paths from the magnet to the outer cylinders are shared with the flux paths to the inner cylinders, but the flux paths to the outer cylinders are longer (more reluctance)

I am sorry, not so fast.
You are applying Hopkinson's law where it cannot be applied.
To describe the situation properly you have to go back to Maxwell's equations or use a modeling tool like FEMM or to measure it where it should be measured.
The magnetic field is strongly guided by the disks and tends to exit mostly at the disk perimeter. This creates the anomaly. Close to the disk surface, B, the component perpendicular to the disk surface in particular, is highest at the disk perimeter and diminishes towards the centre of the disk. Far away from the disk surface it is the other way round, but this is not of our interest. Here is a measured example.

verpies

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #14482 on: October 15, 2012, 05:19:41 PM »
You are applying Hopkinson's law where it cannot be applied.
To describe the situation properly you have to go back to Maxwell's equations or use a modeling tool like FEMM or to measure it where it should be measured.
With static magnetic field Maxwell equations only tell us that magnetic flux forms closed loops that do not cross.
FEMM is good but it is only a 2D simulator.

The Hopkinson applied to infinitesmal cylinders and the gap between the disks is a good approximation.
Here are my experimental results (magnet's radius 10mm, and disks radii 80mm)

Zeitmaschine

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #14483 on: October 15, 2012, 07:20:05 PM »
This is what has kept us from looking and saying What is going on here. Very few experiment anymore. Very few confirm that what has been proposed is actually reality. Some just blindly believe and that is all the effort you will get from them.
I think the Kapanadze device (and this thread) needs more promotion. At least half of the world population should make TK experiments. Therefore design some red stickers ...

+++ Free Energy available +++ Look for the Kapanadze device +++ Figure out how it works +++ It's plain and simple +++

... and stick them on everywhere. Maybe a full-page advertisement in the New York Times will do also. :D 8)

Regards

forest

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #14484 on: October 15, 2012, 08:01:01 PM »
I think you are going too far. It must be much more simpler.

wattsup

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #14485 on: October 16, 2012, 01:18:29 AM »
@all

If it is possible to get back to our real reasons for being here, I need to clarify something.

OK, so I have a question but have to describe the set-up first.

I have a 120vac mains line. (two wires only - hot and neutral)(Yes I am very careful - lol).
I have a ground that goes to the house mains ground. (G1)
I have an isolation transformer 120vac/120vac.
I have two FWBRs (F1 and F2) each with DC sides D1+ and D1- and D2+ and D2-.

The AC goes to the primary and on that primary is also added F1 on the AC side with DC output D1+ and D1-.
On the secondary is added only the F2 on the AC side with DC output D2+ and D2-.
I have a 120vac light bulb with wires B1 and B2.

When I connect the AC plug to the mains and connect the bulb to different locations, here is what happens.

1) B1 and B2 to D1+ and D1-. Bulb lit - Expected
2) B1 and B2 to D2+ and D2-. Bulb lit - Expected
3) B1 to D2+ and B2 to G1, Bulb not lit - Expected
4) B1 to D2- and B2 to G1, Bulb not lit - Expected
Now...
5) B1 to D1+ and B2 to G1, Bulb lit - Not Expected - Hmmmmm
6) B1 to D1- and B2 to G1, Bulb lit - Not Expected - Hmmmmm

So the question is if the bridge rectifier receives AC and the output is DC, why is there a difference between 3-4 and 5-6.

If DC is DC, then why the difference. Unless DC is not DC under certain conditions.

The above scenario takes the basic connections of the 2004 device where.....

The transformer is the visible transformer with the diode plate as F2 have output D2+ and D2-.
The F1 bridge connections to the primary is the AC5 line.
So this is a basic copy suggesting that there is a FWBR in the tin can.

I have always thought that once the rectifier passes the AC to DC, there is no turning back or going back. So how did 5-6 occur?????????????????

I am again doing simple test copies of the 2004 device, going one step at a time and will add more steps as I progress through the basics.

wattsup


27Bubba

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #14486 on: October 16, 2012, 01:45:14 AM »
@all

If it is possible to get back to our real reasons for being here, I need to clarify something.

OK, so I have a question but have to describe the set-up first.

I have a 120vac mains line. (two wires only - hot and neutral)(Yes I am very careful - lol).
I have a ground that goes to the house mains ground. (G1)
I have an isolation transformer 120vac/120vac.
I have two FWBRs (F1 and F2) each with DC sides D1+ and D1- and D2+ and D2-.

The AC goes to the primary and on that primary is also added F1 on the AC side with DC output D1+ and D1-.
On the secondary is added only the F2 on the AC side with DC output D2+ and D2-.
I have a 120vac light bulb with wires B1 and B2.

When I connect the AC plug to the mains and connect the bulb to different locations, here is what happens.

1) B1 and B2 to D1+ and D1-. Bulb lit - Expected
2) B1 and B2 to D2+ and D2-. Bulb lit - Expected
3) B1 to D2+ and B2 to G1, Bulb not lit - Expected
4) B1 to D2- and B2 to G1, Bulb not lit - Expected
Now...
5) B1 to D1+ and B2 to G1, Bulb lit - Not Expected - Hmmmmm
6) B1 to D1- and B2 to G1, Bulb lit - Not Expected - Hmmmmm

So the question is if the bridge rectifier receives AC and the output is DC, why is there a difference between 3-4 and 5-6.

If DC is DC, then why the difference. Unless DC is not DC under certain conditions.

The above scenario takes the basic connections of the 2004 device where.....

The transformer is the visible transformer with the diode plate as F2 have output D2+ and D2-.
The F1 bridge connections to the primary is the AC5 line.
So this is a basic copy suggesting that there is a FWBR in the tin can.

I have always thought that once the rectifier passes the AC to DC, there is no turning back or going back. So how did 5-6 occur?????????????????

I am again doing simple test copies of the 2004 device, going one step at a time and will add more steps as I progress through the basics.

wattsup

I wish I have an answer to your questions. I'm sure local scientists chime in and help solving it.. At any rate I'm impressed with your progress which I'm following closely. Wouldn't mind point to spot where the abbreviations like "FWBR"are explained?  8)Thanks and good luck...

xenomorphlabs

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #14487 on: October 16, 2012, 01:48:15 AM »
@all

If it is possible to get back to our real reasons for being here, I need to clarify something.

OK, so I have a question but have to describe the set-up first.

I have a 120vac mains line. (two wires only - hot and neutral)(Yes I am very careful - lol).
I have a ground that goes to the house mains ground. (G1)
I have an isolation transformer 120vac/120vac.
I have two FWBRs (F1 and F2) each with DC sides D1+ and D1- and D2+ and D2-.

The AC goes to the primary and on that primary is also added F1 on the AC side with DC output D1+ and D1-.
On the secondary is added only the F2 on the AC side with DC output D2+ and D2-.
I have a 120vac light bulb with wires B1 and B2.

When I connect the AC plug to the mains and connect the bulb to different locations, here is what happens.

1) B1 and B2 to D1+ and D1-. Bulb lit - Expected
2) B1 and B2 to D2+ and D2-. Bulb lit - Expected
3) B1 to D2+ and B2 to G1, Bulb not lit - Expected
4) B1 to D2- and B2 to G1, Bulb not lit - Expected
Now...
5) B1 to D1+ and B2 to G1, Bulb lit - Not Expected - Hmmmmm
6) B1 to D1- and B2 to G1, Bulb lit - Not Expected - Hmmmmm

So the question is if the bridge rectifier receives AC and the output is DC, why is there a difference between 3-4 and 5-6.

If DC is DC, then why the difference. Unless DC is not DC under certain conditions.

The above scenario takes the basic connections of the 2004 device where.....

The transformer is the visible transformer with the diode plate as F2 have output D2+ and D2-.
The F1 bridge connections to the primary is the AC5 line.
So this is a basic copy suggesting that there is a FWBR in the tin can.

I have always thought that once the rectifier passes the AC to DC, there is no turning back or going back. So how did 5-6 occur? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?

I am again doing simple test copies of the 2004 device, going one step at a time and will add more steps as I progress through the basics.

wattsup
On the primary side the potential is in reference to the ground potential, so you have no floating potentials.
The potential difference created for you by the energy company in regards to ground.

Maybe you can draw the circuit? That way it is better to see how you connected everything.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 07:27:35 AM by xenomorphlabs »

jbignes5

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #14488 on: October 16, 2012, 03:55:30 AM »
@wattsup

This might help you a bit with the isolation transformer Wattsup.


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvHCQswnjEg&feature=related

 Lets just say you are pulling the potential difference from each side of the transformer. Also the full wave diode bridge isn't true DC. It becomes pulsed DC. Adding a cap will filter the pulse out to a degree but it is pulsed non the less even after filtering.

So the isolation transformer inverts the ac signal. If you pick it off at the right points this will actually double the potential difference if they are compared like you are doing.

 The interesting parts of the video is the air coil and winding directions of each coil.

 It would be easier if you supply a schematic so I can show you better.

 FYI dc 2 dc filtering(scrubbing) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=G-Llhy2ViUY

andrea76

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #14489 on: October 17, 2012, 08:15:57 PM »
when Kapanadze discovered the phenomenon (burst of energy )  did not know how to use it. the first thing he tought  was to use it to drive an generator.replacement it with a coil came after (amplifying the alternate current 50 hz).his rotating device is similar to the  Hendershot motor.we have to start  building the "receptor".HOW DO WE KNOW IF WE GOT THE CORRECT IMPULS???  we are in a dark room looking one nail.it s only matter of time....