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Author Topic: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze  (Read 14518589 times)

Offline ronotte

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #11190 on: March 15, 2012, 10:53:48 AM »
@wattsup,
Hi, I suppose that now you should consider to have almost all the answers but of course its necessary to draw a complete & detailed data sheet/building sheet containing every possible mechanical & electrical known specs in order to not leave interrogative points. I think that we all could examine that writeup and discuss eventual variations. Certainly we are faced with to 2 main possible alternatives: 1 - build a unit like the one WNYg has, 2 - build a slightly modified unit more optimized for our intended use ( isolation degree, wires sections, number of HV turns, increase of HV coil fraction, etc).
About mechanical dimensioning, I have saved the attached 2 pics, perhaps you already have them...
Roberto

Offline a.king21

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #11191 on: March 15, 2012, 11:20:48 AM »
PLease Do Not Feed THE TROLLS:
JUST IGNORE THEM. >:(

Offline verpies

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #11192 on: March 15, 2012, 02:25:10 PM »
Question : Is it possible to keep unloaded resonant circuit with circulating 25 amps at 200-400V with just a 100W input ??? :-\ ??? :o ::) :P :D ;) ;D :-*

Yes. Even less than that if the inductor's resistance and capacitor's ESR is kept low.

Offline verpies

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #11193 on: March 15, 2012, 02:37:13 PM »
Bang a couple of Tesla coils together, make some sparks and pass the hat around. Ghastly.

Yup. specatacular hissing and sparking means nothing without decent In/Out power measurements or a long term self-runner.

Offline John M

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #11194 on: March 15, 2012, 06:08:20 PM »

YES very easy the problem is extracting the VARS to WATTS without changing the phase angle.  For the last FIVE years i have spoken about VARS and reactive power systems is the road to OU but only the last months the populous is coming to terms with the technology.


A 3 phase 5hp motor can be RV'd and run on just 15 watts!  It will have couple hundred volts and >20 amps circulating :)


 By using loose magnetic coupling of several stages greater source to load isolation can be provided to limit the phase shift.

The simplest way is to use your RV'd motor, is to drive a conventional generator to produce the watts.
John

Offline Osiakosia

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #11195 on: March 16, 2012, 09:22:13 AM »
[

The only other information I would really need is physical measurements of the TBC110 flyback, core dimensions, thickness, etc, so the manufacturer can draw off the same or approximate core type.

wattsup

Here you can find measurements of  П110 chape core .

Offline leo48

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #11196 on: March 16, 2012, 09:35:14 AM »

750 pages and still no one else is good reply

Leo48

Offline wattsup

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #11197 on: March 16, 2012, 02:27:53 PM »
@T-1000

Thanks again for your kind responses. I know I can be a pain in the ass and I appreciate your time.

I have taken the day to look over past patents to see if I can find anything that has two HV coils wound in reverse and with one end each left open inside the coil as it is wound. I have found nothing on that to my dismay, but, also to my pleasure since this confirms this is new.

Being new is OK in itself, but the question is will it work? I don't think the HV coils in the TBC-110 flybacks from Russia or the modified from Lithuania have this open reverse HV coil. If they did, this would have been shown in the specs.

I also checked pages 90 to 94 on this web site.....
http://www.kolbasers.ru/agregat/215/90/index.shtml
and translated the text and nothing mentions the use of two HV coils .

I spoke yesterday to the manufacturer and they have never seen this and requested I make a drawing to show them the build directions so they can give me a price for a few samples. I am thinking of making up to 10 of them to start some experimenting with them. Lucky I have three companies because the manufacturer gets many private requests that they find very time wasting for them. At least with a company it makes it more serious for them.

But I agree this design is very interesting in terms of having this to test with. But I personally don't think this is the TBC-110LA as we know it today and as it exists on your workbench.

So this is the quandary I am having. Do we make this one, or the original, or both. Hmmmmmmm.

OK, we will see what the manufacturer says. I have made a diagram of the HV coil as per instructions the way I understand it. If there is anything wrong, please advise. I will also make a diagram for the secondary but not as detailed. They know how to wind standard secondaries and primaries as per normal specs.

My greatest concern is, will this flyback produce 25kv with a HV coil of only 600 turns. If it does, then this flyback will definitely be special because usually such high voltage flybacks have twice as many turns minimum. So we shall see and have some fun while we're at it. lol

I took the liberty of adding some OU @member names but I hope I did not vex anyone for leaving them out. If you have some @member names to add, please advise as well.

Now the biggest job will be to convince the manufacturer to give this a try and just as importantly to give me a break on the price to start this off. I think the novelty of the proposed HV coil may be just perfect to push them to make a few. lol

@Ronotte

Sorry for answering your post so late as well. Anyways I have done my best to understand @T-1000 specs for the HV. If you see anything please advise. I had the images you posted but they do not show the core measurements.

@Osiakosia

Thanks for the core dimensions. I added the inches as well and put it below.

From my initial talks with the manufacturer (Bob), he suggests using their core model UU60 which is big enough for the task. It is L=3" so seems to fall in very close to the shown dimensions.

@all

I tried to find a patent showing a dual HV coil wound inverse for a flyback transformer but found none. If anyone find one please post on this thread.

wattsup

Offline ronotte

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #11198 on: March 16, 2012, 05:04:56 PM »
Hi wattsup,
thanks a lot for your effort. From an initial HV coil check, it seems following the TBC110nA directions. I see only few points:
1 - why leave the 'open' end of L12 and L13 inside the dielectric instead to take them out to a standard lug? Ok, not used by our implementation but it could be useful for next one...
2 - I assume that you are proposing to use the proposed wire sizes approach: in our specific case, if any possibility, I would propose a proportional step up in order to allow more current to flow.
3 - I think that you are asking for only the HV coil and not at all the primary coils composed by L9, L10, L11. Is that correct? If positive I understand that primaries are up to us.
Finally I'm a little worried about L11 because there is the way to obtain the increased performance up to > 20KV: it must be resonated with an external cap. I would propose eventually to have a pre coiled version of L11 coil as in table: pin7,8 = 435t @ 0.23mm, pin 8,9 = 186t @0.23mm
Roberto

Offline wattsup

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #11199 on: March 16, 2012, 07:48:27 PM »
Hi wattsup,
thanks a lot for your effort. From an initial HV coil check, it seems following the TBC110nA directions. I see only few points:

1 - why leave the 'open' end of L12 and L13 inside the dielectric instead to take them out to a standard lug? Ok, not used by our implementation but it could be useful for next one...
2 - I assume that you are proposing to use the proposed wire sizes approach: in our specific case, if any possibility, I would propose a proportional step up in order to allow more current to flow.
3 - I think that you are asking for only the HV coil and not at all the primary coils composed by L9, L10, L11. Is that correct? If positive I understand that primaries are up to us.
Finally I'm a little worried about L11 because there is the way to obtain the increased performance up to > 20KV: it must be resonated with an external cap. I would propose eventually to have a pre coiled version of L11 coil as in table: pin7,8 = 435t @ 0.23mm, pin 8,9 = 186t @0.23mm
Roberto

@ronotte

Thanks for your comments.

1) Yes  I was thinking the same thing but then again, this would be a source of HV on those two wires that if just waiting on terminals will probably create sparking. The idea of HV coils is to make it in a way to eliminate any inter winding sparks so having those two wires coming out, even if not used would create potential points of spark. But again, yes, having those two outside would be good for more testing methods.

2) For the HV wire I would like to propose to use two sizes larger then the original TBC-110 since there will be far less winds and it would be more durable, but I will discuss this with the manufacturer and see if this adds to the complexity.

3) The drawing I just posted is just for the HV coil to show the hidden wires, and CW/CCW relations but I will give them full details for the primary/secondary coil as well as per the winds and wire AWG we already know about.

I will wait for any other comments until end of Saturday and prepare my final request format to the manufacturer on Sunday and hopefully this will be a reality soon enough.

I am also tempted to ask them to make the standard TBC-110 HV coil as well just in case.

The only real major problem with the HV coil design as proposed by @T-1000 is that if the 1/4 resonant calculation is done using Tesla method of wire length, then it seems to me that the 4 layers will never be 1/4 of the 16 layers since you will be using much more wire length in the 16 layers. It could be that 6-7 layers will be 1/4 the length of 16 layers and not 4 layers. So this is again a question that is unknown. Maybe the manufacturer can do a combination of turns and measure wire length when making the 4 layers, then just wind the second one with 4 times the wire length of the first wind.

Meanwhile, I am looking to order one of their standard HV flybacks that has only the Primary and HV because my flyback is making too much internal sparks now and I want something  to continue experimenting with. lol

wattsup

Offline Kaduci

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #11200 on: March 17, 2012, 06:09:52 AM »
Hi OU researchers !!

Here you can see a working versions of two TPU's by two realstranniks Inogda1 and Keb.

Inogda's TPU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcD6cP9JQnY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHzei4PUW5I

The second vid is couple of years old !!

Keb's TPU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjuo22t2V_s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agKttaFpuxs

The 1'st page of TPU link on Russian forum Realstrannik.RU is
http://realstrannik.ru/forum/29-tpu/267-tpu.html

For any informations you can ask Inogda and Keb on forum!! You can use english !!

Little annotation: The light bulbs used in the both TPU's are 220 Volts,50 Hz, 150 Watts. Stiven Mark have been used 120 Volts, 60Hz light bulbs !!

The newest 3-rd vesion of TPU is Inogda's Chokes-TPU. Currently in developing, up to 160KWats from 4 masive chokes!!

ps. Thanks to Nikola Tesla, Stiven Mark and Otto Sablaric !!

ps1. @ALL OU researchers: "One input-two output port Avramenko's fork works perfectly well across diode polarised in direct on inverse direction. According to tests there are exist two components of  current.(cold and hot electricity).  If you have a time and equipment do some tests anf look yourself !! Thanks !!

Offline ronotte

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #11201 on: March 17, 2012, 09:23:40 AM »
@wattsup,

I'm following your line of reasoning and mostly agree. Yes, I would order at least 2 units (I want one) just copy of original TBC110nA in order to allow us to see differences.
This night I've had an inspiration, I try to re assume it.

1 - There is lot of free space for the Hv coil so, why do not try to setup an a-la-Tesla solution?
2 -  I'm referring specially to L13 -16 layers and L12 - 4 layer
3 - Instead to wind that coils in the standard flat way and taking care of proper layer'sinsulation, use respectively 16 and 4 pancakes.Such pancakes could be first assembled separately outside the core, then staked one over the other interposing (between each pancake) simply a small Kapton's disk of  for example 0.4mm thickness that provide about 4-5KV isolation/pancake.
4 - once the pancake's stack  complete, just slide the whole assembled pack into the core: the game is over.

ADVANTAGES:
- much less interwinding capacitance that translates into more efficiency and higher operating frequency
- much less probability of interwire sparks
- the L12 could be built as a small 'movable' stack of 4 pancakes: that allows to vary the L12 - L13 coupling...very important to find the optimum point ...and maximize the trumpet wave
There's also a positive side effect because if the L13  higher resonating freq corresponds to an higher L11-C9 resonation (remember always 1/4 wave length), may be that C9 could be lower hence increasing the Q factor or even not needed at all :)

Note: about quarter wire wave lenght calculation you should not measure it conting the layers but rather phisically pre cutting calculated lenght of wire. It could lead to different numbers of layers. Remember also that is not so important to cut it at mils precision...even if you made it to cm precision is largely OK

Roberto

Offline Osiakosia

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #11202 on: March 17, 2012, 07:24:46 PM »
@ronotte

Thanks for your comments.

1) Yes  I was thinking the same thing but then again, this would be a source of HV on those two wires that if just waiting on terminals will probably create sparking. The idea of HV coils is to make it in a way to eliminate any inter winding sparks so having those two wires coming out, even if not used would create potential points of spark. But again, yes, having those two outside would be good for more testing methods.

2) For the HV wire I would like to propose to use two sizes larger then the original TBC-110 since there will be far less winds and it would be more durable, but I will discuss this with the manufacturer and see if this adds to the complexity.

3) The drawing I just posted is just for the HV coil to show the hidden wires, and CW/CCW relations but I will give them full details for the primary/secondary coil as well as per the winds and wire AWG we already know about.

I will wait for any other comments until end of Saturday and prepare my final request format to the manufacturer on Sunday and hopefully this will be a reality soon enough.

I am also tempted to ask them to make the standard TBC-110 HV coil as well just in case.

The only real major problem with the HV coil design as proposed by @T-1000 is that if the 1/4 resonant calculation is done using Tesla method of wire length, then it seems to me that the 4 layers will never be 1/4 of the 16 layers since you will be using much more wire length in the 16 layers. It could be that 6-7 layers will be 1/4 the length of 16 layers and not 4 layers. So this is again a question that is unknown. Maybe the manufacturer can do a combination of turns and measure wire length when making the 4 layers, then just wind the second one with 4 times the wire length of the first wind.

Meanwhile, I am looking to order one of their standard HV flybacks that has only the Primary and HV because my flyback is making too much internal sparks now and I want something  to continue experimenting with. lol

wattsup
In oiginal TBC110 HV coils was used " Универсаль " wiring . ( In english I found Ing-Jang or Nets wiring ) . This
tipe of winding gets bigest inductance and lowest capasitance at the same lenght of wire . But I dont know does anybody
will made this type of wiring
Another way  if it is necessary to have capacitive connection between L12 and L13( Like T-1000 showed on diagram )  I doubt
that this method is good for us .
Regards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIOocMoRsYQ&feature=rec-fresh+div-r-8-HM
Please look how it are making .
 

Offline wattsup

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #11203 on: March 18, 2012, 04:54:26 PM »
@wattsup,

I'm following your line of reasoning and mostly agree. Yes, I would order at least 2 units (I want one) just copy of original TBC110nA in order to allow us to see differences.
This night I've had an inspiration, I try to re assume it.

1 - There is lot of free space for the Hv coil so, why do not try to setup an a-la-Tesla solution?
2 -  I'm referring specially to L13 -16 layers and L12 - 4 layer
3 - Instead to wind that coils in the standard flat way and taking care of proper layer'sinsulation, use respectively 16 and 4 pancakes.Such pancakes could be first assembled separately outside the core, then staked one over the other interposing (between each pancake) simply a small Kapton's disk of  for example 0.4mm thickness that provide about 4-5KV isolation/pancake.
4 - once the pancake's stack  complete, just slide the whole assembled pack into the core: the game is over.

ADVANTAGES:
- much less interwinding capacitance that translates into more efficiency and higher operating frequency
- much less probability of interwire sparks
- the L12 could be built as a small 'movable' stack of 4 pancakes: that allows to vary the L12 - L13 coupling...very important to find the optimum point ...and maximize the trumpet wave
There's also a positive side effect because if the L13  higher resonating freq corresponds to an higher L11-C9 resonation (remember always 1/4 wave length), may be that C9 could be lower hence increasing the Q factor or even not needed at all :)

Note: about quarter wire wave lenght calculation you should not measure it conting the layers but rather phisically pre cutting calculated lenght of wire. It could lead to different numbers of layers. Remember also that is not so important to cut it at mils precision...even if you made it to cm precision is largely OK
Roberto

@ronotte

The problem when playing around with HV coils is that they are not the same as the coil winding method shown by @Osiakosia (with thanks) as in that video, they are making an antenna coil (or other usage) with Litz wire. Take the negative of your HV coil and bring it close to any other coil and what happens. The HV- will make a sparking flame just like the HV+ side will do as well. This is because the primary is run by AC (or simulated AC or Dual DC). Each side of the HV coil will inversely become + then - and so on. So my main question is what will happen to the loose wire inside a dual inverse wound HV coil? In normal condition, that internal HV wire should spark right away and burn itself through the coil unless if there is generated such a neutral condition at that point that will permit the internal wire to survive or unless the primary is only receiving a strict DC mono-directed pulse that does not permit any AC action in the HV coil, but then the two rectifying diodes at HV+ output will now longer be required.

In my build spec I put down two layers of dielectric, then place the wire ends, then put two more layers of dielectric on the wire ends, but, what f that is not enough. What if we need 5 or 10 layers of dielectric per each side of the open wires. When I mentioned the general idea to the manufacturer (Bob), he immediately said this will require some dielectric material depending on the required output design of the HV coil. That's why I put a note in the spec regarding the actual dielectric layers.

So maybe you are right to consider taking the two loose ends and bringing the out of the coil and just not used but securely placed to not be in contact with any spark potential. But then, what kind of adverse effect could this have on the intended flyback build and output effect, if the wires are not left inside the coil.

Then the only real alternative is to add enough dielectric layers to make sure no internal spark is possible, but this may cause the second HV coil wound over the first to be even further away from the core and what effect (adverse or not) will this have on the intended build?

So we start to realize there are some questions that need to be looked at. Of course, ultimately we will never know unless it is made and tested but at least we can all consider the variables in advance and take the best approach.

I for one agree that this open ended build method will have some very good effects if it can be made to survive the initial experimentation. I honestly feel the open ended approach leaves room for the ether to impress a unidirectional force in both sides of the two open wires.

On the 16L the open end is getting negative but on the 4L the open end is getting positive. So the energy leaves the 4L positive and leaves the 16L negative all while being fed additional energy via the ether. Those polarities will alternate or couse. Ya, ya, this sounds like voodoo talk for many but too bad.

I am wondering if it would not be better to try and make an enlarged version of the dual coil HV coil and try it first ourselves, before asking Bob to make some for us. Maybe we can get some better ideas that way first because I do not have endless chances to bother Bob each time we fail or need (costly) changes and more builds.

@T-1000

If you have any comments on the above, I would greatly appreciate it.

wattsup


Offline ronotte

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Re: Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze
« Reply #11204 on: March 18, 2012, 05:54:41 PM »
Hi wattsup,
I do not have like you a direct expertise on HV technology. For me this is the first time I'm dealing directly with such particular conditions. You are right, the danger is that everything keeps sparking. Incidentally that's exactly what happened with my Ventex neon sign generator (9-11KV output): evrything sparked ...several inches... all died. I suggest to leverage on Bob's direct expertize in order to find  a good practical solution for us...remembering that unloaded output could rise well over 20KV.
Our purpose nonetheless is to design something new sporting 'open ends', not to replicate existing TBCs. So, at the end it would be better to stay with your original design according to T-1000 suggestions.
From my side I'll look for suitable cores: if I find something good I'll build my own HV coil to determine the best approach.
Note: finally the siberian tube dealer gave me the shipment 'done'...it will take 2 weeks to get my tube & sockets for my autogenerator replication.
Roberto