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Author Topic: Method for converting HV (static) into usable low-voltage power.  (Read 38817 times)

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Method for converting HV (static) into usable low-voltage power.
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2009, 04:55:32 AM »
ive been experimenting with flourescent bulbs.

it seems they have a strange ability to charge up to enormous potentials when influenced by a static field.
this can be done without dischaging the potential of the original field.
and the charge taken on by the bulb can be much greater than that of the static field.

im not sure how to put this to good use, but i am able to light the bulb spuratically, and shock the tee-total piss out of myself.

there may be something of value to be gained from this.
i'll post any findings i discover, and welcome any advice/experience anyone may have on this subject.



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline forest

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Re: Method for converting HV (static) into usable low-voltage power.
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2009, 10:22:31 AM »
Great! Maybe it could be used to construct high capacity new HV capacitors ? :o

Offline Shanti

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Re: Method for converting HV (static) into usable low-voltage power.
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2009, 12:05:54 PM »
Lol, ...

Just MHO: But it depends how high is your voltage and how much Amperage you have on your HV. All types of Transformers (also inverse Tesla Coil) are quite inefficient if you have very little Amperage on the HV Side (as from a static machine like a Wimshurst and Co).
But there is a device which can convert very high voltages with very low amperage to high current low voltages, and this with a very high efficiency. Farnsworth invented it, it's called an "electron multiplier". And it's even made quite simple. The only special thing you will need is a good vacuum pump.

The Basic principle is this. That with you HV you just have to deliver a stronge electric field. Thsi field accelerates electrons to a metal surface. At impact, the high energy electron will free some metal electrons too. Then these will again  accelerate due to the electric field, again to a metal surface, and so on. The number of electrons will increase exponentially. This works as long as the electric field of the HV source is stronger than the field of the electrons...So at a certain amperage, which is dependant on the HV voltage it will be in a balance and just as much electrons will be freed again as have collided.
You can this with a plate, tube, or also with a sphere circuit, whereas the sphere circuit is more efficient. BTW: The farnsworth fuser is based on this idea. He just used ions to oscillate in the field instead of electrons. And of course he then doesn't let them collide anymore with the outer surface...

There's also another possibility. Although i never tested it. Take an isolater with a high electrostricition value (Piezo-Elektret) and take a magnet with a high magnetostriction value.
Now if you deliver HV to the electret it will grow or shrink, so it will mechanically change. If you now put these electrets very firm between two magnets, then the magnets will also be mechanically pushed and pulled. Due to the high magnetostriction of the magnets the magnetic field will change considerably due to this. Now you can wind some wire around the magnets and the changing magnetic field will induce a low voltage higher current current. But i think with this you would have quite some considerable mechanical losses. So IMHO the Farnsworth device is the as far as I know most efficient device to convert such static field to LV. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Method for converting HV (static) into usable low-voltage power.
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2009, 12:05:54 PM »
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Offline forest

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Re: Method for converting HV (static) into usable low-voltage power.
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2009, 12:39:06 PM »
ive been experimenting with flourescent bulbs.

it seems they have a strange ability to charge up to enormous potentials when influenced by a static field.
this can be done without dischaging the potential of the original field.
and the charge taken on by the bulb can be much greater than that of the static field.

im not sure how to put this to good use, but i am able to light the bulb spuratically, and shock the tee-total piss out of myself.

there may be something of value to be gained from this.
i'll post any findings i discover, and welcome any advice/experience anyone may have on this subject.

Please describe actual experiment. I have an crazy idea : what if you put fluorescent bulbs into saline solution without connection to it (need insulator or one terminal bulb only probably.
Then put a sheet or metal plate around saline solution forming one electrode of capacitor, the second electrode IS gas in fluorescent bulb with bulb terminal as second end of capacitor.

Something like that or similar would form a high grade HV capacitor if you explain how you charge bulb.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2009, 06:02:17 PM by forest »

Offline Paul-R

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Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Method for converting HV (static) into usable low-voltage power.
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2009, 02:39:21 PM »
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Offline wings

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Re: Method for converting HV (static) into usable low-voltage power.
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2009, 03:45:20 PM »
Lol, ...

Just MHO: But it depends how high is your voltage and how much Amperage you have on your HV. All types of Transformers (also inverse Tesla Coil) are quite inefficient if you have very little Amperage on the HV Side (as from a static machine like a Wimshurst and Co).
But there is a device which can convert very high voltages with very low amperage to high current low voltages, and this with a very high efficiency. Farnsworth invented it, it's called an "electron multiplier". And it's even made quite simple. The only special thing you will need is a good vacuum pump.

The Basic principle is this. That with you HV you just have to deliver a stronge electric field. Thsi field accelerates electrons to a metal surface. At impact, the high energy electron will free some metal electrons too. Then these will again  accelerate due to the electric field, again to a metal surface, and so on. The number of electrons will increase exponentially. This works as long as the electric field of the HV source is stronger than the field of the electrons...So at a certain amperage, which is dependant on the HV voltage it will be in a balance and just as much electrons will be freed again as have collided.
You can this with a plate, tube, or also with a sphere circuit, whereas the sphere circuit is more efficient. BTW: The farnsworth fuser is based on this idea. He just used ions to oscillate in the field instead of electrons. And of course he then doesn't let them collide anymore with the outer surface...

There's also another possibility. Although i never tested it. Take an isolater with a high electrostricition value (Piezo-Elektret) and take a magnet with a high magnetostriction value.
Now if you deliver HV to the electret it will grow or shrink, so it will mechanically change. If you now put these electrets very firm between two magnets, then the magnets will also be mechanically pushed and pulled. Due to the high magnetostriction of the magnets the magnetic field will change considerably due to this. Now you can wind some wire around the magnets and the changing magnetic field will induce a low voltage higher current current. But i think with this you would have quite some considerable mechanical losses. So IMHO the Farnsworth device is the as far as I know most efficient device to convert such static field to LV.


some documents related to Multipactor - cold cathode :

http://www.borderlands.com/archives/arch/multipact.htm

multipaction material:
 
http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/hv/multipact.htm


conference on Multipactor, Corona and Passive Intermodulation

http://conferences.esa.int/03C26/


Offline wings

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Re: Method for converting HV (static) into usable low-voltage power.
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2009, 03:56:18 PM »
http://multipactor.esa.int/whatis.html

.... you can download a multipactor calculator program from ESA here:

http://multipactor.esa.int/downloads.html

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Method for converting HV (static) into usable low-voltage power.
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2009, 03:56:18 PM »
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Offline Shanti

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Re: Method for converting HV (static) into usable low-voltage power.
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2009, 04:19:21 PM »
Here's a picture for a simpler construction where it is easier to see how it works:

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/5370/electronmultiplieryg0.gif

The central mesh is fed with a HV DC voltage to generate the acceleration E-Field.

Here in a tubular version:

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7528/patus2189358fig4.jpg

And here in a double tubular version, which makes the oscillation even easier and stronger:

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4976/patus2137528fig5.jpg

BTW: Today this effect is mostly taught to avoid it. As it can pose quite a problem in a circuit if this effect starts to happen and an exponential electron buildup is unwanted.

Offline forest

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Re: Method for converting HV (static) into usable low-voltage power.
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2009, 06:20:13 PM »
My idea is to use that Tesla patent : http://www.google.co.uk/patents?id=v-tqAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=&f=false

then replace stack of plates insulated by gutta percha with fluorescent tube (should be made probably from thick glass or special crystal). I'm not sure ifthat could work but why not ?

You put enormous charge on fluorescent bulb and such capacitor should polarize and charge equally by induction. Not sure what would be negative and what positive terminals but idea is interesting.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Method for converting HV (static) into usable low-voltage power.
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2009, 06:20:13 PM »
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Offline wings

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Re: Method for converting HV (static) into usable low-voltage power.
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2009, 06:31:58 PM »
My idea is to use that Tesla patent : http://www.google.co.uk/patents?id=v-tqAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=&f=false

then replace stack of plates insulated by gutta percha with fluorescent tube (should be made probably from thick glass or special crystal). I'm not sure ifthat could work but why not ?

You put enormous charge on fluorescent bulb and such capacitor should polarize and charge equally by induction. Not sure what would be negative and what positive terminals but idea is interesting.

or c-stack - Voltage Step-down or step-up circuit

http://jnaudin.free.fr/cstack/index.htm


Offline Steven Dufresne

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Re: Method for converting HV (static) into usable low-voltage power.
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2009, 06:46:47 PM »
This was an approach I stumbled on when working on my testatika. 26kV, 20uA DC in, 190V, 113uA out. Okay, it was only 4% efficient but it was just something I stumbled on and since it wasn't what I was after I didn't improve upon it.

 http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/testa/potsmk1.htm

Basically it's lowering HVDC by leakage. Now that I think of it, I do this all the time when I don't insulate well enough. The point is, if you make an effort to capture all the ions then you can increase the efficiency.
-Steve

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Method for converting HV (static) into usable low-voltage power.
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2009, 06:46:47 PM »
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Offline triffid

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Re: Method for converting HV (static) into usable low-voltage power.
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2009, 08:56:59 PM »
test

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Method for converting HV (static) into usable low-voltage power.
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2009, 08:55:13 PM »
im toying around with tests on the works of Hermann Plauson.

basically 2 conducting plates, rotating between 2 charged plates.
when the rotating plates are 90-degrees to the charged plates, there is a fluxuation in current across a wire connecting the two plates. when they rotate 180-degrees : a polarity flip occurs sending the current in the other direction.

if this can be timed properly (rpm) then it may be sufficient to operate a transformer as plauson claimed.
in HP's patents he shows motors with multiple poles, which quite frankly confuses the heck outta me.... so the one im designing is basically like a small DC motor design. with two poles, using metal plates as stator/rotor instead of coils and magnets.

still on the drawing board with that though, as im still not convinced that this technology couldnt be used in a different way..
i.e. plauson's particular approach may not fully utilize the potential of his operating principal. 
for instance, rotating the charged plates instead of the induced ones.... or finding another way to oscillate the charges between two plates, to cause an alternating induction on a pair of secondary plates..  or ( particularly interesting to me) inducing a charge in multiple layers of plates in series, and discharging alternate plates.

i'll have to do more experimentation along these lines, perhaps a spark-gap discharged system could result in a more "solid-state" build.

Offline Steven Dufresne

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Re: Method for converting HV (static) into usable low-voltage power.
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2009, 12:18:39 AM »
im toying around with tests on the works of Hermann Plauson.

basically 2 conducting plates, rotating between 2 charged plates.
when the rotating plates are 90-degrees to the charged plates, there is a fluxuation in current across a wire connecting the two plates. when they rotate 180-degrees : a polarity flip occurs sending the current in the other direction.

You've just described the Hyde generator:
 http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/hyde_generator
except that Hyde was running it at 6000RPM and not just for transforming purposes, though that's probably what he started out doing.

if this can be timed properly (rpm) then it may be sufficient to operate a transformer as plauson claimed.
in HP's patents he shows motors with multiple poles, which quite frankly confuses the heck outta me.... so the one im designing is basically like a small DC motor design. with two poles, using metal plates as stator/rotor instead of coils and magnets.

still on the drawing board with that though, as im still not convinced that this technology couldnt be used in a different way..
i.e. plauson's particular approach may not fully utilize the potential of his operating principal. 
for instance, rotating the charged plates instead of the induced ones.... or finding another way to oscillate the charges between two plates, to cause an alternating induction on a pair of secondary plates..  or ( particularly interesting to me) inducing a charge in multiple layers of plates in series, and discharging alternate plates.

i'll have to do more experimentation along these lines, perhaps a spark-gap discharged system could result in a more "solid-state" build.

The wire segments of the testatika may in fact be the charged parts that are rotated between front and back antenna keys. I do that sometimes in my experiments, for example in this one:
  http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/testa/276disksg2dcpsu3.htm

Are you refering to Plauson's US patent 1540998? If so, where in the patent does he talk about this?

I'm very interested in what you're doing.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org   http://wsminfo.org

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Method for converting HV (static) into usable low-voltage power.
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2009, 03:23:06 AM »
great work there!  may i ask where you obtained the "mesh" you used to make your cylinders??  i've tried to re-created those things using perforated aluminum cans, but i found that cutting and reshaping their cylindrical shape proved to be more of a problem than i could deal with....

on plauson::      i started out reading about it in some of his litterature, but in his #1540998 patent i believe its mostly discussed near the top, with bits and details down through the center, before he gets into the more complex machinery.

i started thinking along the lines of using the rotating motion of my wimshurst to operate the spinning portion of a plauson-hybrid device. this way i dont need a secondary drive mechanism.
basically what i came up with is an inverted plauson-machine.

the induced plates and transformer are the stator, and the charged plates rotate straight off the drive-shaft of the wimshurst.
i drew a basic picture of what i have in mind.


 

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