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Discussion board help and admin topics => Half Baked Ideas => Topic started by: JoinTheFun on June 23, 2009, 10:35:26 PM
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Since an EV doesn't need gears nor clutch, would it be viable to replace the gear box and clutch by an electric engine and use the ICE just as a generator, that kicks in when the batteries run low ? Necessary extra batteries under the rear seat and part of the trunk result in added weight, of course.
Maybe someone good with numbers could see what an average ICE could produce as regards electricity.
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There are city busses in Europe that are now testing this: A "Diesel-Electric" system similar to that used in train locomotives for 70 years or more. The main problem with this is, it's highly expensive to do, beyond what most peeps would be willing to try. But it could raise mileage by more than 120% from what i've seen.
The ideas i've seen for this that seem better efficiency-wise are related to either using hydraulic individual wheel hub motors, or compressed air motors. The ICE is used to either charge the hydraulic condensers or air tanks on demand, which are then used to run the motors.
Most of these systems have the benefit of allowing intermittent single-speed & torque operation of the ICE, so it can be very fuel-efficient compared to having to constantly run in variable periods of high torque/speeds, then idle. But again, the problem with converting a standard car is "cost", for one thing, you would really want smaller and specifically-design ICE's that better take advantage of the steady throttle aspect.
I was thinking, the "Mighty Yet Tiny" (MYT) motor design by Raphial Morgado might turn out to be perfect for these kinds of applications ;)
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Hi All...good subject :)
I looked at converting an Chevy S10 project back in the early '90's but back then the cost was really high at about 10,000 US $ for a short run of 80 miles per charge.
I always wondered if you couldn't extend the mileage by adding a diesel generator to assist the batteries, long before hybrid's came to being I might add :) The other day my brother said he seen that kind of setup on the news or some show :o but I haven't found it online yet....
The thought I originally had was to reduce the amount of batteries needed as compared to a normal EV which would reduce the weight of the EV.
Since sometime now I've been dreaming of a day where I could afford to get enough money and time to put together a GEET style setup in the back of my S10 with a small diesel/generator to reduce the amount of fuel and lower emissions.
The aim would be to ditch the ICE/Transmission/Alternator in order to reduce friction and drag by using either a AC or DC motor, maybe even use super/ultra caps as a possible means of lowering weight even further.
Does anyone think this type of setup could work and if not why not?
Regards,
Paul
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I think the first step is turning your wheel rotors into Electrical Generators for starters.
a transmission should be employed for different terrains that might zap energy from the system in the form of over heating. especially 4% to 6% grades.
building a large High density capacitor say 4ft x 8ft x 1ft would do the job nicely for a long distance run about vehicle.
you want to conform to aerodynamics to cut resistances and maybe even employ molded type flexible solar cell tech as an undercoat skin on the vehicle.
some Thermal Electric peltiers in key locations to recapture lost energy as heat.
construct all Motor casings from Aluminum or Carbon composite to cut weight, build Chassis and body from Carbon Composites as well to reduce more weight. use Plexiglas for windows to reduce weight.
that's it for now except for getting into Aerogel bodies and frames.
Jerry
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Well, I was just thinking of easy and low-cost conversion. Of course lots of improvements are possible, but just to change the cars that we now have, I wondered if it was doable.
The ICE is probably far too heavy for its purpose of generating electricity, but it saves time and money to leave it where it is, if at all possible, assuming that removal of the gears and clutch provide enough room to install an electric engine that's powerful enough.
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Just semi-OT on the solar cell idea: transparent collectors are possible now, so the car could be all-see through triplex of some kind, while charging on solar power.
Near 100% energy re-use would be to physically bump the car in front of you, just as the moment it's going to pull up again. Beats braking on generators to charge batteries. Waiting for someone to bump you each time you pull up though can get old quickly :-)
I love the GEET concept, but remmeber it's open source for 1 unit per replicator forn a 20hp unit, I believe. More appt for a motorbike or moped conversion perhaps?
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Ok someone asked for someone good with numbers, ok i am here.
Simple answer, can you replace all the mechanical crap tranmission with electronics in an ev, YES ford did it with their ranger. There was no transmission no driveshaft just an electric motor between the two back wheels. They controlled motor speed with 3 phase ac frequency, the motor would do from 1rpm to 14000.
Can you make an ev with a diesel or gas or propane range extension system, YES. It is quiet simple really, build an ev with 40-60 mile range, then drop in a 15-20kw generator (500-800cc engine) and at freeway speeds the generator can keep up with the electrical demand (weight depending) this would give you around 100mpg.
It can be done, but it isnt being done because they want your money. If I can calc the math (and I have many times) then so could the engineers. it is done by design.
if you add some heat reclaimation of the engine to the system the range becomes rediculous.
I currently have an f150 truck with a bad engine just for this purpose. And as I stuff into saving I am building it. The f150 is one of the most prolic and useful vehicles around if it can work, then ALL can work end of story.
Put an aluminum ladder rack with 1.4kw worth of solar (which is the area of the rack) and now it extends even further, and can charge itself. Yes it would take a long time to fully charge the batteries, and the solar would not keep up with the drive speed usage. But if I had 40 miles range, and drove 30 miles to work and it charged for 8-10 hours i would get 11.2-14 kwhr for free, which would be more than the power it took me to drive to work (roughly 35-45 miles).
WE HAVE THE ABILITY NOW, but the prices are kept high so it is not finacially cheaper to do it, which means none of us will do it because we always use the price as the most important factor.
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@ d3adp00l & All
After looking at the latest GEET mpg it would seem that a small diesel engine/generator has become more feasible (If proven) to extend the mileage, my main beef is the $10.000 US + to convert but then again a new vehicle isn't any cheaper...only problem is coming up with the money up front to pay for the switch over...but at least now it looks more realistic if the GEET works...it would solve the problem of draining the batteries too much while in use and save them from premature failure.
Regards,
Paul
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I got an old Land Rover Discovery 1996 just for that purpose. I want to convert it to an EV, but its automatic, I will see what I will do later because automatic is not really good for an EV.
Right now I need to repair the garage before playing with this project :)
And one of my wish is ZENN release their new EV with the EESTOR capacitor, so we can buy this capacitor for our own EV.
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If you have the ability to start the project, don't wait on geet to get it going. the generator is the last piece. sit down and plan out your system, figure out how much it will cost (looks like you have), and start procuring what you need. Force yourself out of the norm, and into the solution.
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With a Tritium Beta Voltaic Capacitor I can power an electric full sized car, full sized electric truck under full power for 12.3 years after that the system would have to be flushed into a recycler and then refilled to go another 12.3 years of full power run time.
If you want to store unused energy from the Beta emissions then you need a superconductive capacitive system that stores the charge for when ever it is needed.
it has no run down time as in standard electrical or chemical systems and I can run a full sized truck full speed for 12.3 years Half life of Tritium, I would not have to stop for that period without any mechanical failures, it would be concidered a civilian Nuclear Capacitor system and is legal and Tritium is not that expensive. the only high cost would be to impliment a superconductive electrical storage system and that's mainly what you would be paying for, that and upgrading the superconductors from time to time to more High Tc materials that don't require cooling, the Beta emissions can power the cooling system when not in use to activate Tc in the SC but will eventually be upgraded to the point where cooling is no longer required.
Since the Superconductive plates are placed together in parallel at Tritiums Capillary gap the Tritium is pretty efficient at delivering every bit of energy possible for it's half life.
The only pollutent is Helium which under certain nuclear conditions be reconverted back into Tritium and never leaves the Pressure Chamber because the chamber is pressure reinforced for Helium and not Tritium. Helium is the only true inert substance that has no reaction to any known substance chemically.
Jerry ;)
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sure guy, go build one and tell us all how it works.
Try staying within the confines of the real universe.
This is why nothing gets done.
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sure guy, go build one and tell us all how it works.
Try staying within the confines of the real universe.
This is why nothing gets done.
Hi d3.
Why do old men mumble?
Jerry ;)
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When you see someone who could use the knowledge you have you have a basic desire to share it with them, but over time you learn that its a waste of time because they don't listen to the experience you share with them, or they argue that you are wrong. So old men have found the answer,
Mumble to yourself, you feel better that you said something, and they didn't have to listen to you, so they could ignore it, or argue with you. its the most efficient way for both parties to feel better.
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that or they eventually went nuts.
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Then I guess I feel better.
Thanks d3
Jerry
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Converting a fossil fuel vehicle to EV is not that difficult. In this months design News Magazine there is an article about drag racers going electric.
http://www.designnews.com/article/277418-Drag_Racing_Goes_Electric.php
Plasma Boy Racing, White Zombie Dragster...
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/whitezombie.php
Blue Meanie Dragster...
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/bluemeanie.php
I am getting started on my EV transport by buying an old golf cart. Then I'll build it into a streetable machine over time. The real crux of a reliable EV transport is keeping the batteries (or supercap arrays) charged. I figure this is where an electrical free energy generator comes into play. Most of the EV transport is pretty mundane stuff, but the magic happens when we keep it going with free energy...
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they are some video about it on youtube, the EV drag car beat all the others!
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These guys have the answer to the layman electric car:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcqeQFgPs5o
They made an electric Jeep that uses 20, 6v golf cart batteries.
Then, they keep the batteries charged, while driving, with a 17500 watt generator that uses 90% hydrogen / 10% gasoline.
They claim the generator efficiency goes up 300% using the 90% hydrogen.
The electric Jeep normally gets 50 miles per charge, but with the hybrid generator attached, the Jeep can go 1200 miles using ten gallons of gasoline.
This is exciting stuff !!!
These guys are selling these systems NOW !
They will also convert ANY generator you 'drop ship' to them to the hybrid hydrogen system for $1500 -- so long as the generator can output at least 30 amps to jump start the hydrogen system.
I found 'many' brand new 10000 watt generators for around $800 (search google shopping)
Now, I found that many people are easily converting their gas cars to electric at this website:
http://www.evalbum.com/
Here is a question for smarter people than me:
Why did the guys who made the electric Jeep put batteries in the Jeep?
This adds expense and extra weight to the Jeep.
If the generator is keeping the 20 golf cart batteries topped off with charge all the time, then the Jeep's electric motor must be using somewhere around 15000-17000 watts power when running. (small electric cars use around 5000-10000 watts)
Why not just use the generator to directly power the Jeep?
Is there a reason why they keep the batteries?
Diesel electric Train engines are setup this way, without batteries. So how is the Train industry doing it?
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Diesel electric Train engines are setup this way, without batteries
Actually they do. Its for starting the engine. The generator then keeps the batterys charged as well as supplying electricity to the rest of the train. Locomotives usually are not shut down except for maintenance. The diesel generator is what supplys the electric power for lighting,Ac ,heating and refrigeration.
Why not just use the generator to directly power the Jeep?
This is a load factor. Charging batterys uses less amps. The more amps used the more fuel is used up. You would quickly use up a normal battery system with the amount of weight a vehicle weighs. The hydrogen conversion on a gasoline generator may work if the generator is built tough enough. The longevity of the generator would be key to feasibility.
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@all
Thank you very much.
(Better late than never)