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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: otto on June 17, 2009, 08:53:16 AM

Title: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: otto on June 17, 2009, 08:53:16 AM
Hello all,

you missed this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=167210479374903373&q=steven+mark

if I wrote it wrong, I found this video at peswiki: Its a video 38 minutes long.

Steven Mark has in his hands a 6" TPU and says at second 40:

....this device weights a pound and a half.....

Almost forgot to mention that the weight is so big because Steven Mark packed into it a lot of bananas!!

Thank you for reading my misleading. Have a nice day

Misleading Otto

Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: otto on June 17, 2009, 09:15:01 AM
Hello all,

I forgot:

dont even think to attac Mannix because he sayd the TPU has no core.

A long time ago I already wrote a long time ago that there was a misunderstanding between Mannix and Steven Mark and so Mannix posted that a TPU has no core. We are all human, or?

I hope its now clear.

And if you start to post, first use your brain and then push the "post" button.

Otto

Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: BEP on June 17, 2009, 04:43:08 PM
Hello all,

I forgot:

dont even think to attac Mannix because he sayd the TPU has no core.

A long time ago I already wrote a long time ago that there was a misunderstanding between Mannix and Steven Mark and so Mannix posted that a TPU has no core. We are all human, or?

I hope its now clear.

And if you start to post, first use your brain and then push the "post" button.

Otto

@Otto

Agreed, There is NO reason to attack anyone on this.

I thank you for your efforts. The weight is clearly an important piece of information.

My TPU theories should be complete now. Part of that is the understanding there were many different TPUs shown but there were also many design variations. All were based upon a single theme.

If my understanding is correct there is room for a heavy core in some designs but not in others.

Please note that later in the same video a different TPU with similar dimensions, is said to be 12 ounces. My new TPU should weigh about 14 oz. complete. There is no core. It measures 4" I.D. x 6" O.D. x 2" tall.

The 'clapping' of the forces isn't important. It is what happens immediately after that is important.  :D
Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: giantkiller on June 17, 2009, 05:42:20 PM
The magic bullet comes in different calibers and grain count.
One only gets hung up at a rope party. A lariet does one no good at the firing range.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: BEP on June 17, 2009, 06:12:29 PM
The magic bullet comes in different calibers and grain count.
One only gets hung up at a rope party. A lariet does one no good at the firing range.

--giantkiller.

Gimme some time to run all that through my decryption algorithms  ???

I didn't think I was being cryptic. SM makes it clear he thought the results were due to colliding forces, so I referenced 'clapping'. One thing I am sure of, my EMP toys work on the same principle.

The difference is I was not trying to reuse the relaxation of the forces I displaced with the EMP - only kill the aggravating country music at 3AM from the neighbor.... and a few other fun things.

 It is clear a 'core' can be part of this. The earliest attempts at automatically degaussing color CRTs would probably do the same thing if things went wrong. I am referring to the set of coils still on some 60's TV sets.
There was one large coil around the edge of the tube face and one coil at each corner. The purpose of the corner coils was to cause a magnetic null between them. It is unclear what the purpose of the large coil was.

What this did was provide two vectors nulling. Each perpendicular to the other. Then there was the core.... It was called the shadow mask and was soft iron. This provided a thin flat surface for the nulling to meet.

Only Heaven knows what would happen if the sequence of events was just right.

It should make a good EMP weapon!

I doubt the whole assembly weighed more than a pound. 
Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: Yucca on June 17, 2009, 06:28:31 PM
Yes, quite a dense toroid. maybe it has alot of wound copper making the collector, connected in parallel groups that are then connected in series for vge gain. Or maybe even a high freq. core material and the collectors were wound as normal toroid winds?

The video referenced in the 1st post is a good one. I notice that at about 4min 20s just as he activates the small TPU with a magnet from his pocket that the video cam picks up a noise (probably EM), sounds like an oscillation sweeping down in freq. and repeating. Plug headphones in and crank up the volume and treble. You can clearly hear a freq. sweeping in a downward sawtooth manner. It might be an alias of a much higher freq. mechanism? An interesting point is that it starts gradually as the mag is brought closer to the TPU, indicating not a reed switch but some phenomena that arises as a result of a mag field bias?

Perhaps the device doesn't include 3 seperate pure freq. generating stages. (I don't think it does) Perhaps it is a derivative of a blocking oscillator... A blocking oscillator with an added TURN OFF stage as well as the normally found TURN ON stage. Could it be as simple as energising an inductor and then sensing the inductor output, as soon as that goes high, as soon as the charge has propogated through it, then stop excitation. Then the BEMF feeds the trigger coil to start it all over again. So just produce pure up/down kicks, no juice wasted in steady state excitation. So we could excite the thing with a feeble battery, but the magnetic moment it produces could have considerable power?

This concept of turn on and then turn off as propogation finishes has been mentioned before in another thread somewhere, I'm sure I read it, perhaps TAO has spoken of this.

edit:
Maybe he moved to air core with perpendicular collectors in later designs because he realised he could harvest higher freqs this way. Those higher freqs would be lost as heat to any core. His cored designs maybe had his collectors wound as parallel toroidal secondaries in earlier designs?
Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: BEP on June 17, 2009, 06:47:50 PM
Yes, quite a dense toroid.

Nope, I seriously doubt it.

Quote
maybe it has alot of wound copper making the collector, connected in parallel groups that are then connected in series for vge gain. Or maybe even a high freq. core material and the collectors were wound as normal toroid winds?

Highly complex? Again, doubtful.

Quote
The video referenced in the 1st post is a good one. I notice that at about 4min 20s just as he activates the small TPU with a magnet from his pocket that the video cam picks up a noise (probably EM), sounds like an oscillation sweeping down in freq. and repeating. Plug headphones in and crank up the volume and treble. You can clearly hear a freq. sweeping in a downward sawtooth manner. It might be an alias of a much higher freq. mechanism? An interesting point is that it starts gradually as the mag is brought closer to the TPU, indicating not a reed switch but some phenomena that arises as a result of a mag field bias?

Perhaps the device doesn't include 3 seperate pure freq. generating stages. (I don't think it does) Perhaps it is a derivative of a blocking oscillator... A blocking oscillator with an added TURN OFF stage as well as the normally found TURN ON stage. Could it be as simple as energising an inductor and then sensing the inductor output, as soon as that goes high, as soon as the charge has propogated through it, then stop excitation. Then the BEMF feeds the trigger coil to start it all over again. So just produce pure up/down kicks, no juice wasted in steady state excitation. So we could excite the thing with a feeble battery, but the magnetic moment it produces could have considerable power?

This concept of turn on and then turn off as propogation finishes has been mentioned before in another thread somewhere, I'm sure I read it, perhaps TAO has spoken of this.

edit:
Maybe he moved to air core with perpendicular collectors in later designs because he realised he could harvest higher freqs this way. Those higher freqs would be lost as heat to any core. His cored designs maybe had his collectors wound as parallel toroidal secondaries in earlier designs?

Sawtooth? BEMF? I did a complete sound analysis of some of the videos. No sawtooth... BEMF is the last thing you want with these. Up/Down kicks? Kicks only go one direction, as far as I know. The rest may be possible but I doubt it is part or much of a concern.
Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: Yucca on June 17, 2009, 07:35:04 PM
why do you doubt the toroid density BEP? Do you think SM is lying about the weight? The small toroid would not weigh 1lb if it were only cork wrapped with wire.
Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: Yucca on June 17, 2009, 07:43:26 PM
I did a complete sound analysis of some of the videos. No sawtooth...

so you can't hear what I mention in my above post, forward the vodeo to the time i mention and listen, it is a descending freq repeating. Alright it may not be a linear sawtooth, but it's there, listen!

BEMF is the last thing you want with these.
BEMF is impossible to escape with any conducted signal transient in the real world. Also a BEMF trigger coil does not soak much power up. If you could flesh the bones of your argument out a little it might just walk.

Up/Down kicks? Kicks only go one direction, as far as I know. The rest may be possible but I doubt it is part or much of a concern.

OK, up kicks, if the notion of return upsets your delicate demeanour. But if power is extracted through secondary coupling then it will take out of both the rise and fall. Rectify it with diodes and modest cap and you're left with reosonable DC, of course you will see hash on top due to the fast transients and chaotic ringing involved in a blocking oscillator.

Out of curiosity, do you believe the small TPU has 3 precision freq generator circuits involved?
Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: BEP on June 17, 2009, 09:27:55 PM
why do you doubt the toroid density BEP? Do you think SM is lying about the weight? The small toroid would not weigh 1lb if it were only cork wrapped with wire.

I have no doubts at this point. I also doubt SM was lying about much of anything. I can build a 6" TPU and easily keep the weight under 1 pound.

The tones you mentioned are there but it is very unlikely they were the result of sawtooth. These are the tones most of my recent TPU work are based upon.

BEMF is impossible to avoid. It just isn't much concern in helical fields. I generally avoid the term. It is sorely misunderstood and misused by too many people.
My argument is with myself and it walks just fine. Right now it is all between me and my bench to provide proof to myself of my theories.

I don't need to rectify the output. Smoothing would be a good thing outside of the TPU.

No, I do not believe the smallest TPU, or any other, has three precision frequency generators built in.


Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: turbo on June 17, 2009, 10:58:19 PM

BEMF is impossible to avoid.


Bingo!

Here's what happens when two cannon balls of same amplitude collide  :)
Do i need to say more?  ::)

Clap clap vibration...
M.
Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: Mk1 on June 18, 2009, 04:51:08 AM
Yes, quite a dense toroid. maybe it has alot of wound copper making the collector, connected in parallel groups that are then connected in series for vge gain. Or maybe even a high freq. core material and the collectors were wound as normal toroid winds?

The video referenced in the 1st post is a good one. I notice that at about 4min 20s just as he activates the small TPU with a magnet from his pocket that the video cam picks up a noise (probably EM), sounds like an oscillation sweeping down in freq. and repeating. Plug headphones in and crank up the volume and treble. You can clearly hear a freq. sweeping in a downward sawtooth manner. It might be an alias of a much higher freq. mechanism? An interesting point is that it starts gradually as the mag is brought closer to the TPU, indicating not a reed switch but some phenomena that arises as a result of a mag field bias?

Perhaps the device doesn't include 3 seperate pure freq. generating stages. (I don't think it does) Perhaps it is a derivative of a blocking oscillator... A blocking oscillator with an added TURN OFF stage as well as the normally found TURN ON stage. Could it be as simple as energising an inductor and then sensing the inductor output, as soon as that goes high, as soon as the charge has propogated through it, then stop excitation. Then the BEMF feeds the trigger coil to start it all over again. So just produce pure up/down kicks, no juice wasted in steady state excitation. So we could excite the thing with a feeble battery, but the magnetic moment it produces could have considerable power?

This concept of turn on and then turn off as propogation finishes has been mentioned before in another thread somewhere, I'm sure I read it, perhaps TAO has spoken of this.

edit:
Maybe he moved to air core with perpendicular collectors in later designs because he realised he could harvest higher freqs this way. Those higher freqs would be lost as heat to any core. His cored designs maybe had his collectors wound as parallel toroidal secondaries in earlier designs?

@Yucca

faraday!

Lets say you got a pulsed dc circuit 2 freq one for the one off switch , and a second for the dc pulse , then you would have two kicks one regular one from the pulse and a second one and bigger one at on /off.

This link show exactly what happens , now earth north and south poles dictate the power lines , and i believe not to be the first one to say the circuit is under pressure to comply with earth ,at on and off time it create a the big kick bigger then the one produced by the circuit . Yes crasy ...


http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/electromag/java/faraday/index.html


@all

i really like the first tpu , the one with a single magnet, with a small ferrite toroid on top, He said bail wire and its clearly made form a a plastic 50 dvd tray . so you know the size of it , plus most already have the parts.Also aluminum foil on the radial coil.

I believe that having any of SM design working from a magnet , would help greatly.

At first i was thinking Hall sensor to get it started from a magnet , but really not.







Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: BEP on June 18, 2009, 02:44:12 PM
Bingo!

Here's what happens when two cannon balls of same amplitude collide  :)
Do i need to say more?  ::)

Clap clap vibration...
M.

@[marco]

Are you messing with an EMP coil? You have the fast cutoff and the relaxation. You may also have the time shift (Do you have anything near your coil that is also shifting? A watch slowing - pencil sharpening - radio playing tunes like a weak battery on a tape player?  ::)  )

When I had such a wave the scope had to be repaired but the last wave was off the screen ;)

And Yes, the scope probe was not connected.

-------------

Coils are wound now on my 6 inch TPU. The weight is 10 oz. That leaves me 2 for the electronics  ;D
Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: turbo on June 18, 2009, 08:06:06 PM
No
It's just two signals slightly out of phase into a small coil.

M.
Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: wattsup on June 19, 2009, 12:53:51 AM
I have seen so many sine waves like that. lol

@BEP

The 6TPU is said to weigh 1.5 lbs or 24 ounces. I think you have some more winding to do. lol
Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: Yucca on June 19, 2009, 01:49:56 AM
@Yucca

faraday!

Lets say you got a pulsed dc circuit 2 freq one for the one off switch , and a second for the dc pulse , then you would have two kicks one regular one from the pulse and a second one and bigger one at on /off.

This link show exactly what happens , now earth north and south poles dictate the power lines , and i believe not to be the first one to say the circuit is under pressure to comply with earth ,at on and off time it create a the big kick bigger then the one produced by the circuit . Yes crasy ...


http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/electromag/java/faraday/index.html

Hi Mk1,

It might be a way yes, maybe even each switch excited by the same freq but just slightly different phase (using delay coil perhaps).

Just a bit of TPU dreamin... The primary source of power may not even be directly EM related, might be a more physical cavitation of space or something causing a locally pulsing time warp. If you can make a pulsed time warp and have the L of an LC tank circuit sat in the warp, and the C sat outside it then it will run with gain naturally ringing up in amplitude until resistive heating causes it to top out or burn out. could take power off it easily with a secondary just like the faraday trafo experiment you mention or maybe even just leak it out accross the C.

Perhaps the "collector" wind as SM calls it is not really even a collector, perhaps it´s a mobius wound time warp coil (hello otto), a warp bubble happening where the propogating fronts pass in the coil.
 
However it works, it seems SM wanted to make it difficult to decipher? My bet (same as many others) is that REALLY fast rise and fall times are part of it all, saturatable reactors all round!
Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: BEP on June 19, 2009, 04:04:39 AM
I have seen so many sine waves like that. lol

@BEP

The 6TPU is said to weigh 1.5 lbs or 24 ounces. I think you have some more winding to do. lol

Not quite right. There were at least two different 6 inchers on the vids. The first one weighed about 1.5. The second one (the one driving the inverter) was said to weigh about 12 oz. and be a simple model/version.

Just testing now.  I think I over thought the electronics again  :-\
Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: turbo on June 19, 2009, 07:51:20 AM
I have seen so many sine waves like that. lol

@BEP

The 6TPU is said to weigh 1.5 lbs or 24 ounces. I think you have some more winding to do. lol

OMG sine wave?!

It's even worse then i thought.
Some people will never understand what Steven was doing..
Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: innovation_station on June 19, 2009, 08:03:19 AM
OMG sine wave?!

It's even worse then i thought.
Some people will never understand what Steven was doing..

drop the sign and watch her dance .... lol


ist!

it can be an ac motor with a transformer generator winding on top of it ......

heck i even took a induction motor and made a tpu from it ....  long ago ...   same old same old ...
Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: turbo on June 19, 2009, 10:05:58 AM
Sure it can  :)

Most of the good guys left because of you.
They all say it's because of a twat called IST...

And Stefan is just letting it happen.
This board rocks! 


IST!!!! IST !!!!!

_____________________________________________________________

To understand the action of the local condenser E in fig.2 let a single discharge be first considered. the discharge has 2 paths offered~~ one to the condenser E the other through the part L of the working circuit C. The part L  however  by virtue of its self induction  offers a strong opposition to such a sudden discharge  wile the condenser on the other hand offers no such opposition ......TESLA..

THE !STORE IS UP AND RUNNING ...  WE ARE TAKEING ORDERS ..  NOW ..   ISTEAM.CA   AND WE CAN AND WILL BUILD CUSTOM COILS ...  OF   LARGER  OUTPUT ...

CAN YOU SAY GOOD BYE TO YESTERDAY?!?!?!?!
Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: Mk1 on June 19, 2009, 04:44:31 PM
Sure it can  :)

Most of the good guys left because of you.
They all say it's because of a twat called IST...

And Stefan is just letting it happen.
This board rocks! 




IST!!!! IST !!!!!

_____________________________________________________________

To understand the action of the local condenser E in fig.2 let a single discharge be first considered. the discharge has 2 paths offered~~ one to the condenser E the other through the part L of the working circuit C. The part L  however  by virtue of its self induction  offers a strong opposition to such a sudden discharge  wile the condenser on the other hand offers no such opposition ......TESLA..

THE !STORE IS UP AND RUNNING ...  WE ARE TAKEING ORDERS ..  NOW ..   ISTEAM.CA   AND WE CAN AND WILL BUILD CUSTOM COILS ...  OF   LARGER  OUTPUT ...

CAN YOU SAY GOOD BYE TO YESTERDAY?!?!?!?!

Sorry but that is the stupidest thing i have heard , Ist making people run away lol . Ok he gets excited , from time to time , but noting to scare a grown man.

Mark 
Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: turbo on June 19, 2009, 08:27:03 PM
yet it is so true....
Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: innovation_station on June 20, 2009, 12:37:58 AM
yet it is so true....

do u know why marco no sir you do not !!!


got your rock on ... i bet you dont hence why you dont know ..... 

a little out of tune are you ?!?!?!?! 


oouch!

ist!
Title: Re: the WEIGHT of Steven Marks TPUs
Post by: turbo on June 20, 2009, 08:55:15 PM
Hey men i'm not outah tune  :D
In fact i've never been better.
It's ok and i understand you just don't know what to say.
Your left with the trash, and you seem to be happy, so all is fine with me  :)

M.