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Author Topic: The author of confusion: North/South Poles and Polarity  (Read 14428 times)

Offline gravityblock

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Re: The author of confusion: North/South Poles and Polarity
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2009, 11:56:53 AM »
I don't see gaus's law like that. Instead of saying the flux is zero it says more that...you can never enclose a magnetic monopole. The dipole will always end up out of the enclosed surface thus making the flux zero. This makes sense because a magnetic dipole are not two particles like gravity block said. But they are more one entity. A magnetic dipole is thus misnamed and should be named magnetic moment to stop the confusion. But this doesn't mean a magnetic monopole doesn't exists.

Thanks for simplifying this for me. As you know, I have a tendency to over complicate things that may cause confusion which is not productive. This is an inherent fault of mine that you have pointed out to me, and I will be working on this fault. Thank You!

Everyday I feel like a kid that rediscovers the outside world. I feel like I have gotten wiser but have learned nothing at the same time. The knowledge anyone posses is a mere drop in the ocean of knowledge.

This is so true. We can have all the knowledge in the world, but if we don't understand this knowledge or do anything with it, then what good has it benefited us?

Let's try to understand the knowledge we have and do something with it.  I think we our on our way to achieving this if we all work together!
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 07:19:02 PM by gravityblock »

Offline Low-Q

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Re: The author of confusion: North/South Poles and Polarity
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2009, 11:39:17 AM »
I think so too, @gravityblock.

I have had a feeling that magnetic poles really isn't poles. It is just a magnetic flow that enters one end and exit in the other end - infenitly. A loop which is already closed and cannot be used to do work "outside" it. There is also a current flow, but not across the magnet. The flow follows the same path as a coil - round and around in plane angular to the magnetic field direction. So the electrons are mostly spinning in one direction like a numberless amount of tiny coils.

I have a question:
How much magnetix flux could we have if ALL electrons was spinning in the same direction (said that the material was able to maintain its shape and volume)? As far as I know it is just a fraction of all electrons that it more or less spinning in the same direction - even on the strongest neo-magnets. Normally a magnetic flux of 100 or more Tesla will break apart an iron core. So the question is hypothetical.

Br.

Vidar

Offline rangerover444

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Re: The author of confusion: North/South Poles and Polarity
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2009, 10:48:06 AM »
  Sorry to interrupted the party, but maybe before moving on to electricity
and charges, it may be beneficial to find out a few things about magnetism…..
Although I like the drawings above, but there is a small mistake according to
tests I have done.

 There is a circulation around a bar magnet and this circulation look like that :

 Although it’s not accepted by modern physics, some simple tests can prove that.
There is a lot after that, but if you miss the basic of what magnets are, there
is no sense to move on to other systems that based on magnetism (at least
That’s how my logic works).

 Let me know what your thought are.

Cheers.

Offline IotaYodi

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Re: The author of confusion: North/South Poles and Polarity
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2009, 03:41:49 PM »
Here in Florida we have a 100 tesla reusable pulse magnet. It can only be used a few times before it explodes. The equivalent of 200 sticks of dynamite going off simultaneously. That is a major gravitational force.

The wires used in the center core are comprised of copper and silver, a chemical mix design to act like concrete.  While the copper is very strong it cracks easily, just like concrete.  The silver acts as reinforcement  to keep the copper intact for a longer time, but even with the reinforcing, it's only a matter of time until the magnet core explodes. In fact, the explosion will be so massive that the whole buidling has to be evacuated when the magnet is in use to protect nearby researchers from the expected deafening sound.

The magnet's reusable design consists of two parts, an outer section, or outsert cylinder, that is nearly six feet wide and five feet tall, and an 8" diameter insert comprised of nine separate coils. Together, they weigh nearly 18,000 lbs.  The wires used within the coils are as small as 100 atoms in diameter.  The entire device will be supercooled to "high-temperature superconductor" levels when in use, drawing 7% of Tallahassee's available power supply.

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/39289/113/

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: The author of confusion: North/South Poles and Polarity
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2009, 04:15:34 PM »
Normal Magnets are made of stable isotopes, their fields are very stable and don't fluctuate without applying some form of interaction.

Unstable Magnetic Isotopes on the other hand do have fluctuating Magnetic fields because of their Radioactive nature, when a particle either emits or absorbs energy its entire system is effected because the system has to try to equalize the lost and or gained energy to maintain conservation of its own bound energy system, Radioactive magnets can do work because their fields fluctuate, Stable field magnets need an outside source of energy to fluctuate their fields to do work.

be careful playing with Radioactive Stator Magnets!
Jerry ;)
« Last Edit: June 18, 2009, 07:48:31 PM by onthecuttingedge2005 »

Offline gravityblock

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Re: The author of confusion: North/South Poles and Polarity
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2009, 06:12:14 AM »
Thanks rangerover for the illustrations.  I have seen that proposed before and wonder why it is rarely mentioned, because it doesn't seem out of the realm for being a possibility.

Here's another diagram of the magnetic field.  Hopefully we can get a good discussion going.

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: The author of confusion: North/South Poles and Polarity
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2009, 07:10:02 AM »
Thanks rangerover for the illustrations.  I have seen that proposed before and wonder why it is rarely mentioned, because it doesn't seem out of the realm for being a possibility.

Here's another diagram of the magnetic field.  Hopefully we can get a good discussion going.

Hi GB.

I like your saying.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.

it's kinda of cool.

Jerry ;)

Offline rangerover444

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Re: The author of confusion: North/South Poles and Polarity
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2009, 07:53:14 AM »
  Thanks GB for the drawing and not automatically rejecting my proposed
magnetic circulation idea.

 Before I will comment on your drawing, let me explain a few principles about
magnetism as a results of tests I’ve done over the past 3 years or so.

 First of all in order to create a motion of particles we need a motive for that,
otherwise they will go to sleep…..lol.  Now, we already know that magnets are
attracting and repelling, and also moving. So we can assume (to start with), that
their motion have something to do with their natural inherited ability to attract
or repel. That bring us to further thoughts, that in order for them to move, we
need two kinds of them, since one particle with one pole at each end, could never
decide on it’s identity and hesitate what to do……lol

 Therefore we need two of them - complementary opposites, in order to move.
Now if they will move mostly by repelling - they will not have a direction, since
Repelling knows how to direct away and not to aim on a specific direction…
So in order to move they need attraction, and attraction could happen between
the two opposite types - one North pole individual magnets and the other South
pole individual magnets.  They can be also “repel from behind” by the same type
Of magnets.

 But here comes another issue :  If their motion is driven by attraction (in front)
And repletion (from behind), why they do not “stick” to the first opposite they
Find ? And stay with it forever, not even going out to movies….lol
Well, let’s put it this way, they are happy to meet their opposite complementary
Particle, but there is a long line of them, or call it a stream of them coming towards
Our particle.  And behind it, there is also a long line of the same kind particle that
Are eager to meet their opposite ones, say hello and move on to the next.

 So in this case we have two streams of particles going in the opposite directions
that are “fast dating” their mates and moving on. Here comes another trick that
Facilitate their interchanging places - spiraling, they are moving in a right hand
Screw like twist. That helps them to keep their trajectory in straight lines (even
When they are in orbit, this spiraling keeps them in stable orbit), and another
Reason is that each stream can “fit” exactly into the stream that runs in the
Opposite direction.

 If you want to visualize it, think about two chain links that are “wrapping”
Around each other while “climbing” over each other, in a right hand twisted motion.

 Well, sorry for the long description, I guess we will talk about your drawing
In the next post.

Hope it helped.

Cheers.
     

« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 08:44:55 AM by rangerover444 »

Offline rangerover444

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Re: The author of confusion: North/South Poles and Polarity
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2009, 10:11:09 AM »
  And to make one more point clear about electricity and magnetism :
During 1800-1900 Farady, Gauss, Lorenz, Maxwell and others where fascinated by
their new discoveries of new energy. We cannot understand it now since it’s
too obvious to us, but at that time it was like discovering America for
the second time : Humanity is going into a new prosperity due to this discovery !!!
And gradually from “naïve Faraday” it turns from a research of nature into
a research for technology…..  Maxwell equations are still being used today for
all kind of applications !!!

 So at one point it all become "science in the name of energy and technology".
And that was when Maxwell determined that there are no such a thing as Magnetic
Monopole - that was the final nail in the “Magnetic coffin”. Since then, magnets
Were “put aside” for their “younger brothers the electrons, photons, protons, neutrons"
and many others, which HAD TO BE INVENTED in order to accommodate the
magnetic phenomena which could not be explained without new particles that
in fact does not exists but used as “Fillers” where no other explanation could be found.

  Just look at the electric theory and see how many manipulation were done in order for
the electrons to carry this energy ?  See what the photons needs to be done in order
“to be at the base of light and all the electromagnetic waves” ?   See how the Atom’s
components (30 of them discovered so far !!!) are suppose to build up one atom, and
how many manipulation where done in order to explain the observations on the
atoms and the different “elements periodic table” ?

 Sorry if it sound that harsh, after all I have no complain to anyone, since it‘s really not
my life and everyone make his/her choices in life, so it’s their right to do so, and who
Am I to say something about it.   But looking at all this from the side, looking at the
tendency to make nature look as complicated as possible - does not make sense to me.

 I wish other people will realize it for themselves, and stop being led by things other
people told them that this how physics works….

Cheers.
     
« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 11:56:05 AM by rangerover444 »

Offline IotaYodi

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Re: The author of confusion: North/South Poles and Polarity
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2009, 05:27:11 PM »
Quote
The dipole will always end up out of the enclosed surface thus making the flux zero. This makes sense because a magnetic dipole are not two particles like gravity block said. But they are more one entity. A magnetic dipole is thus misnamed and should be named magnetic moment to stop the confusion.
Thats what the string theory seems to dictate too. The dipole is one magnetic entity composed of 2 opposite strings bound to both poles by this theory. The strings may have a natural vibrational frequency being induced externally by the aether itself. Different vibrational frequency's applied to the string may change the tension to a plus or minus.  Ed L. thought it was with 2 dipoles with a neutral force to balance it which makes sense. All this reminds me of Sweets work with cold electricity and the magnetic field being tuned to the earth. Just like teluric currents in earth batterys. The power of cold currents is already evident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evfUTmx0uh8





Offline rangerover444

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Re: The author of confusion: North/South Poles and Polarity
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2009, 06:05:30 PM »
 IotaYodi,


 I’m not that familiar with the string theory, though you may be mixing dipole
and monopoles terms.  Dipole is a particle that have N pole on one end and S pole
on the other end. That’s what mainstream consider to be the case.  Ed L. on the
other hand is talking about N pole individual magnets and S pole individual magnets.
These are particles that are one pole, or Monopoles of you will. If I’m not wrong
he suggest that they are Elongated (though he never mentioned that). But they
posses only one pole.

 Maxwell was the first to dismiss their existence and that’s what is accepted today.
In my opinion Maxwell did not apply the right tests in order to make this discovery,
even though he tried to find them. In general, repeating Maxwell experiments (and his
fellow researchers) in physics classes, is repeating on the same mistake they made,
Therefore if someone want to make this discovery they should try different tests,
based on a “blank previous knowledge”


Cheers.

Offline IotaYodi

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Re: The author of confusion: North/South Poles and Polarity
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2009, 10:50:13 PM »
Quote
Dipole is a particle that have N pole on one end and S pole
on the other end.
The string theory is still a dipole (as far as they show) but not a particle.
Eds basic drawing is still really a dipole with a neutral up the center. He shows the positive and negative separated. Whether either can exist without the neutral I dont know. If they could then they could become monopoles.
 Heres the distressing part for me. Both Stubblefield and Ed L. Died with their secrets mostly unsolved. It really shouldnt have been that way. Neither one could hold a candle to Tesla though. What an amazing mind.

Offline Mk1

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Re: The author of confusion: North/South Poles and Polarity
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2009, 01:02:57 AM »
« Last Edit: June 20, 2009, 02:03:49 AM by Mk1 »

Offline rangerover444

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Re: The author of confusion: North/South Poles and Polarity
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2009, 01:03:35 AM »
 IotaYodi,

 Thanks again for your thoughts,
The drawing you are showing had never being commented on by Ed about
it’s meaning. It appears on the front cover of ‘Magnetic Currents’ booklet
and so far got hundreds of different interpretations by the public.
On the other hand he clearly stated and showed through his tests that we are
dealing with monopoles that are acting together.

 I’m not familiar with Stubblefield, but I would not expect Ed to hold a candle
to Tesla. No doubt that Tesla was a genius which acted upon his understanding
with a great courage. But he also had some problems. First, he was “addicted
to technology and applications”, which is ok but not when you study nature.
Second, he never found what where the building block of matter and waves.
Third, his arrogance and craving for attention led him “by his nose” and as a
scientists, you can’t afford that….. And lastly, he did not start from the beginning
(from the building blocks and up), which is a common mistakes these days and
back then.

 You see, Einstein was a genius also, but since he “had to work with the knowledge
he inherited by others”, there was no way he could do his job…… Therefore
his is only way to push the envelope was through “theoretical science”….

 There is a distinct difference between “Technology Science” and “Understanding
Nature”. The first one gives you the illusion of power, mastering nature, achievements,
and put you in orbit around “Human Needs”. In the second one you being led by
Nature, you are not in the lead anymore, and your head is not guided by applications….
but by natural laws and your own curiosity…..   Sound somewhat lyric, but no wonder
nature opened only a narrow crack for human to glimpse, and no wonder Ed took
his secrets with him to the grave…  This trade, has already gone, or to be exact was
missed in the 18xx, then turned to be “Interrogating Nature to reveal it’s secrets”,
but nature will not give them away so easy….

Cheers.