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Author Topic: 4 PISTON MOTOR THAT JUST MIGHT WORK. YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE...  (Read 19608 times)

JohnPK

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This is an idea that I have had for quite some time.
It uses 4 pistons, 4 stationary stator mags, and 9 gears.
Neos are .75 X .25 X .125
Rotor uses same magnets and is .750 diameter.
Shield covers 234 degrees as drawn, but will certainly need
Fine tuning for coverage and timing.
Gears are 3.5 inches.

Please view my PDF drawing. ( I lack good CAD software)
You can see there is quite a mechanical advantage for the power stroke
to overcome the shield attraction.

eavogels was nice enough to create an AVI of my drawing. He might be posting it on his web site in the near future. Once you  watch the AVI it is pretty easy to understand the concept. (Please note the AVI shows the stator array and shield much larger than the actual .750)

I ordered gears and magnets yesterday, so here goes……
Your comments please…… John

Cloxxki

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Re: 4 PISTON MOTOR THAT JUST MIGHT WORK. YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE...
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2009, 02:37:29 PM »
I like it!
Approaching repelling magets with the shield in place, and then the shield is removed?

If shielding really works, the uses for it seem endless.
Like the gear setup also, nifty.

Stroke just seems long for such small magnets? Did you consider giving the pistons a second magnet on the outside? Not easy, I know.

eavogels

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Re: 4 PISTON MOTOR THAT JUST MIGHT WORK. YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE...
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2009, 04:23:47 PM »
A simulation of this motor is at

http://fdp.nu/dualpistondevice

Eric.

JohnPK

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Re: 4 PISTON MOTOR THAT JUST MIGHT WORK. YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE...
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2009, 04:43:00 PM »
Cloxxki,
Will the shield work?I guess we will find out. Most say no. But I feel it is worth a try. It Will take some guess work to get it right I'm sure. I doubt it will do anything with out a shield of some sort.
The shield rotates with the gear and does move out of the way as the piston nears top dead center.
It is about a 3 inch stroke. Yes it is far for a small magnet. I have four strokes for that reason. But I feel it is important to keep the center stator array as small diameter as possible for the mechanical advantage to be able to move the shield at all. Thanks for your comment....
eavogels, thanks as always for your help in the animation....John

Cloxxki

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Re: 4 PISTON MOTOR THAT JUST MIGHT WORK. YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE...
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2009, 06:36:28 PM »
John:
If you substitute the 4 middle gears for 2 chains, you may be able to play more with stroke length, should you want to. Or, the piston might be connected some way removed for it's gear's outer edge.

I never need much reason to kill a dead spot. So if the shielding and you machine would work, I'd suggest a mark II adding inward inward reponsion on the back stroke.

Once shielding works to any degree towards PMM though, the magnetic attempts of all of history will need to be looked at once more. Your device looks especially good as it works in straight repulsions, no rotation at the magnets. If the shielding has a weak spot, your device might already have the workaround.

I say : start cutting some wood for the simplest of attempts!

eavogels

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Re: 4 PISTON MOTOR THAT JUST MIGHT WORK. YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE...
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2009, 10:40:56 PM »
Will the shield work?I guess we will find out. Most say no.
The shield will work. I tried that in my dual piston device. I feel and see the forces when the magnets have the shield in between and when the shield is removed.
The good thing with the dual piston device is that the shield is exactly inserted in the middle. But the good thing in this quad device is that there are more pistons.
I'm a bit afraid for the sliding magnets. I noticed that in my Dual Piston Device Version 1, that sliding is heavy, specially with such a short lever dat presses the magnet to the sides of the slot. Perhaps an idea to make the lever so long that it is connected to the magnet in opposite? That gives less pressure to the slot sides.

By the way: I tried a six piston version as well. See http://fdp.nu/dualpistondevice

Do you see some similarity with the Torbay device?

Eric.

Cloxxki

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Re: 4 PISTON MOTOR THAT JUST MIGHT WORK. YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE...
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2009, 12:33:31 AM »
Erg mooi.
Can't flaw it. Hope TK will feel the same, as that would be absolute validation.

JohnPK

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Re: 4 PISTON MOTOR THAT JUST MIGHT WORK. YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE...
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2009, 03:30:07 AM »
Cloxxki, I am hoping that just having attraction to the shield will help the piston on the return to top dead center.
I really like Eric's drawing of the six piston animation. That gives me even more ideas. And 50 % more power.
I should have ordered more gears.
I wish I didn't have a day job, I can lose sleep over something like this. Ideas start poring in as soon as I hit the pillow.

Hope to see more input and more ideas from others.
Thanks for the help... John

AB Hammer

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Re: 4 PISTON MOTOR THAT JUST MIGHT WORK. YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE...
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2009, 04:01:38 AM »
JohnPK

 Welcome to the forum. I have a design version of this as well. But my pistons are on the inside. I am to busy with gravity approaches to play with magnets at this time. But I do have a several designs I will try in the future or have someone like Sean to do if he would like.

JohnPK

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Re: 4 PISTON MOTOR THAT JUST MIGHT WORK. YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE...
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2009, 05:39:06 AM »
Hello Alan,
Sure would like to see a drawing of your idea. Is one available?
My gears and mags should be here in a few days. I would like to get as many new ideas as I can before I start building.
(I hate it when I find out that I duplicate efforts. I do that way too often.) Thanks, John

eavogels

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Re: 4 PISTON MOTOR THAT JUST MIGHT WORK. YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE...
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2009, 08:35:30 AM »
I should have ordered more gears.
The six piston device uses less gears.

Een nederlander op de draad?

Omega_0

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Re: 4 PISTON MOTOR THAT JUST MIGHT WORK. YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE...
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2009, 08:56:36 AM »
The animations of 2/4/6 piston motors are very nice :)
And its an old but interesting idea. Worth trying.

My knee jerk response after watching the animations is that it will halt quickly somewhere with pistons at mid way. There is nothing in it which will encourage pistons to go on after they find an equilibrium.

Omega_0

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Re: 4 PISTON MOTOR THAT JUST MIGHT WORK. YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE...
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2009, 09:05:27 AM »
I also saw this attempt by yourself (perhaps) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jFT1Ze6igI

It would be better if you can simply rotate the plexiglass wheel using a small motor just at the right speed. This will eliminate a lot of mechanical stuff and losses.
If the energy out of the output wheel is more than the energy consumed by the motor, you have something.

Cloxxki

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Re: 4 PISTON MOTOR THAT JUST MIGHT WORK. YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE...
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2009, 10:17:27 AM »
The animations of 2/4/6 piston motors are very nice :)
And its an old but interesting idea. Worth trying.

My knee jerk response after watching the animations is that it will halt quickly somewhere with pistons at mid way. There is nothing in it which will encourage pistons to go on after they find an equilibrium.
The whole thing together is a flywheel, that should keep it going.
The shielding prevent the system to slow down and possibly return direction as it would without it.
Whether pistons in this kind of a setup are the most efficient energy transfer, I am less sure.

Tommey Reed's rotary piston patent pending concept and double ratchet system comes to mind.
His recent UO circuit ideas didn't work, perhaps he'd offer his piston insight towards achieving OU in relation to rotating or swinging magnetical shields.
Just might work, and work really well.

Tommey Reed

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Re: 4 PISTON MOTOR THAT JUST MIGHT WORK. YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE...
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2009, 12:51:38 PM »
Hello all,

I did not stop working on my other ideas, but engines is what I do know......
My patented rotary engine is a great design and my patent pending ratchet engine is also very good.
The ratchet engine offers total efficiency up to 95%  with 5% of machanical lose.
I am working on many projects, but the ratchet engine is one of the simple one to build, it offers any pressure being forced on any size piston to convert it in to rotational energy.
In other words, if 120 psi is being forced on to a 1" x1" area the total output of the shaft will be 10ft/lb, not in/lb.
I will bring up that video to show the torque and power output soon.

I'm still looking into some mistakes I made on the pulse motor, as you all have seen all the videos was remove because of my mistakes....

Tom