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Author Topic: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications  (Read 344706 times)

minde4000

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #135 on: June 14, 2009, 02:16:10 AM »
People have to build something more descent with proper E coil(s) instead of rotor with couple of magnets and 1000+ rpm. Test it and only then make conclusions about Thanes work. I am glad he is back and helping us along and didnt bail out like few others did. Ron has nice rotor but appearently no E coil yet. I am still building mine still looking for proper size E laminates, waiting on coil winding machine. GL

"I FOLLOW THE DATA THEORY BE DAMNED" - Sr. Lockheed M. scientist Boyd Bushman

Regards Minde


CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #136 on: June 14, 2009, 03:14:53 AM »

So, just for us individuals who have electronic equipment challenges, could you please show an OS shot with TDC marks or any other supporting data?

Regards, Larry

HERE ARE A COUPLE OF E CORE SCOPE SHOTS -

THE 1ST ONE IS THE HC COIL ON LOAD WITHOUT THE HV COIL ENGAGED AND
THE 2ND ONE IS WITH THE HV COIL ENGAGED.

CHEERS
T

CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #137 on: June 14, 2009, 03:30:47 AM »
"I FOLLOW THE DATA THEORY BE DAMNED" - Sr. Lockheed M. scientist Boyd Bushman
Regards Minde

PERFORMANCE COMPARISON DATA SUMMARY YOUTUBE VIDEO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3JVjbXOssQ&feature=channel_page

Conventional generator on load alone delivers an output 6.35 Watts with a corresponding prime mover power input increase of 4% or 11 Watts.

Regenerative acceleration generator and conventional generator on load deliver a combined output of 43.8 Watts with a prime mover input reduction of 19 Watts.

589% output power increase with a 6.5% input power decrease.

Regenerative acceleration generator alone delivers a 498% output power increase over the conventional generator alone with a 11.6% decrease in prime mover input.

T

baroutologos

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #138 on: June 14, 2009, 09:57:25 AM »
Hello @ All,

Its very nice to see Mr T. posting info still here! Thanks man.
At all... a kind request.
Perhaps we should avoid excessive theorizing and focus and experimental facts we have. If you cant experiment yourself, theorizing cant make your statements more valid than others.

My last experiment
..........................................................

We talked about why at magnet TDC exists a voltage that initiates a delayed current. On of the theories was that there is a parasitic capacitatance of the coil. I had to test that.

I wound a bifillar ala Tesla style coil (photos pending) with two wires (not twisted) at 38 ohms each. This way the paracitic capacitance is some thousands time more than sigle wire wound coil.

Running the coil
..........................................................
By series connecting the two parallel coils in the 1100 rpm region i did not managed to achieve any accelaration. (decellaration little though)

This series connected coils output 110 Vac and 0,15 A was the shorted oscillating current.
So we can safely conclude from this simple experiment that noT the Paracitic capacitance do the job.

Interesting effects of biffilar coil in PARALLEL mode
...........................................................................

By the way there are amazing results of the bifilar setup that not sigle wire wound coils have.
When i parallel connected the two coils i had a 55 VAC at 1100 rmp and some 0,3 A oscillating current.
Neither this way i achieved any accelaration, but...
With great astonishement i found out the fact that when you pose a load to coil, it can handle it way better than a single wound wire coil of same size or output in terms of Lenz's law decellaration.

Shorting it
........................................................................

Even though in the decellaration mode, when i shorted it it decellarates the rotor just a bit (from 1100 to 1000 rmp)
If you just short only the one parallel coil, great decellaration kicks in and brings the rotor to full stop.

I remember from my previous experiments that if i shorted a coil not in the accelaration mode, then it initially would slow down a bit, but as the rotor it would slow down, the decellaration becomes faster and faster till to dead stop.

Bifillar coil from my initial experiments has way better way of handling lenz law. (even though does not accelarates)

Loading it
........................................................................

I reapetedly have said that if you apply a load to a accellarating or just barely decellarating coil, then decellaration kicks in in a hard mode. The coils manifest their full accelaration effects when shorted and the oscillating current goes unimpeded or just near to it.

A serious resistive load that will half the shorted oscillating current (according my experiments) results in a brutal decellaration.
Till now all my loads were 12v lead acid batteries powered by the coils via a FWBR.

Even the coils that manifested accelaration, when employed in this configuration they would decellarete to a dead stop.
for example my first 75 ohms HV accelarating coil outputed 110vac and a current (shorted) 130 mA. When used the FWBR and a single battery to charge it was barely if at all accelarating. Thus giving 0,110 (drop) x 12,5 volts = some 1,3 watts energy stores losses include. If i arranged 2 x 12volt  batteries in series then decellaration kicked in and rotor full stop.

But, in bifillar coil, the 12 volt battery was charged 0,250 A or some 2,5 watts (drop from 0,3 shorted) and rotor did not go below 1000 rpm, no matter what.

Bottom line, bifilar or litzed wire coils if employed as HC coils are way better. As for the HV coils employed in bifilar mode i can only speculate...


Regards,
Baroutologos
« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 10:38:25 AM by baroutologos »

hoptoad

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #139 on: June 14, 2009, 01:07:16 PM »

Bottom line, bifilar or litzed wire coils if employed as HC coils are way better. As for the HV coils employed in bifilar mode i can only speculate...

Regards,
Baroutologos
Nice fresh observation. Thanks for sharing!  KneeDeep

Cheers 

P.S.  I found bi-filar coils best for the drive coils of adams motors. The same acceleration is oberved (for different reasons), when only one coil is used for the drive, and the other is connected back to source via a diode at one end with a common connection to negative at the other end. (I used npn switching).
I never actually tested bi filars as passive pickup coils.

Thanks again for the observation. 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 02:14:32 PM by hoptoad »

CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #140 on: June 14, 2009, 02:20:49 PM »

I wound a bifillar ala Tesla style coil (photos pending) with two wires (not twisted) at 38 ohms each. This way the paracitic capacitance is some thousands time more than sigle wire wound coil.

Bifillar coil from my initial experiments has way better way of handling lenz law. (even though does not accelarates)

Regards,
Baroutologos

ALMOST EVERY COIL I AM USING LATELY IS BIFILAR.   parallel-wound, series connected

SHOWN CLEARLY IN THIS VID RED & GREEN WIRES:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPMbWzNuMOg&feature=channel_page

THIS VID USES BIFILAR ONLY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3JVjbXOssQ&feature=channel_page

IF YOU ARE USING A 6 POLE ROTOR - YOU OUGHT TO SPECIFY THAT BECAUSE FREQUENCY IS A DECIDING FACTOR IN COIL PERFORMANCE.

THERE ARE MANY REASONS WHY A HV COIL DOES NOT ACCELERATE...
AND THEY ALL HAVE TO BE ADJUSTED ACCORDINGLY.

NOT ENOUGH TURNS
NOT ENOUGH IMPEDANCE
FREQUENCY TOO LOW
MAGNET STRENGTH TOO HIGH
TURNS NOT WOUND TIGHT ENOUGH - IF WOUND BY HAND.

THIS IS A REPLICATION THREAD - ANY STATEMENT SHOULD BE PRECEDED BY "IN MY EXPERIENCE"
SO THAT OTHERS ARE NOT MIS-DIRECTED.

I REQUEST THAT YOU PLEASE GO BACK AND RE-TEST WITH A 12 OR 18 POLE ROTOR AND THEN REPOST YOUR FINDINGS - YOUR FREQUENCY WILL BE HIGHER AND THE IMPEDANCE OF YOUR BIFILAR COIL WILL ALSO BE IN THE CORRECT RANGE.

THANKS
T

hoptoad

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #141 on: June 14, 2009, 02:28:49 PM »
BACK TO RULE #1

ALL GENERATORS HAVE CORES AND CORE LOSSES = NON ISSUE

Thane

Core design and material (and rotor design and material) dictates how much loss, and how it is manifested.
Cogging torque and reluctance losses are always issues to be considered and dealt with by correct design and materials choice.


hoptoad

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #142 on: June 14, 2009, 02:52:01 PM »
THIS IS A REPLICATION THREAD - ANY STATEMENT SHOULD BE PRECEDED BY "IN MY EXPERIENCE"

"In my experience" this thread should be called Miscellaneous Perepetia, since the Perepetia effect is not limited to a specific design or anyones specific experience.

As I_ron so eloquently put it, the Perepetia effect is a mundane effect, and can manifest over a broad range of impedances and core designs. But it can still be useful, mundane or not.

There are plenty of other designs on You Tube exhibiting the same or similar effects, even though they vary significantly. The question is, who'll come up with the most efficient total system input versus total system output?

Few are likely to have access to all the same materials, machinery, workshops etc to make exact replicas of any one design.

That can be a good thing. A broader range of designs and ideas has a greater chance of producing better methods and results, than everyone doing the same thing.

Cheers

CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #143 on: June 14, 2009, 03:13:32 PM »
Core design and material (and rotor design and material) dictates how much loss, and how it is manifested.

YOU ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION AS USUAL.

WE ARE NOT NOR HAVE WE EVER BEEN IN THE GENERATOR CORE BUSINESS.

WE ARE IN THE GENERATOR REDUCTION OF ARMATURE REACTION BUSINESS.

THE COMMON DENOMINATOR IS THE CORE BECAUSE WE EMPLOY COILS WOUND ON BOBBINS WHICH WE INTERCHANGE ON THE SAME CORE. AND ALL WE LOOK AT IS COIL REACTION TO LOADING.

I.E

HC COIL DECELERATES AS PER LENZ'S LAW, PRODUCES DIMINISHING OUTPUT AND REQUIRES ADDITIONAL PRIME MOVER INPUT.

HV COIL ACCELERATES, PRODUCES INCREASING OUTPUT AND REQUIRES REDUCED PRIME MOVER INPUT.


THE ONLY POSSIBLE PROBLEM WITH HV COILS COULD HAVE BEEN A REDUCTION IN PERFORMANCE WITH HIGHER GRADE CORE MATERIAL (LOWER CORE LOSSES ETC) BUT IT HAS BEEN SHOW THAT HIGHER GRADE CORE MATERIALS ONLY INCREASE PERFORMANCE.

THIS IS WHY WE UPGRADED CORE MATERIALS MONTHS AGO TO CONFIRM THIS FACT.

NOW WE ARE PLANNING TO HAVE A ONE PIECE STATOR MADE WHICH EMPLOYS MULTIPLE COILS EITHER INDIVIDUALLY WOUND OR SIGULARLY WOUND.

ALL OF THIS INFO HAS BEEN PRESENTED MANY TIMES.

AGAIN THIS IS A REPLICATION THREAD - NOT A SELF-AGGRANDIZATION THREAD - I AM ONLY HERE TO ASSIST OTHERS AND I ONLY CAME BACK TO REDIRECT A REPLICATOR BACK ON COURSE - I AM NOT HERE TO BE INSTRUCTED ON THE OBVIOUS.

Quote
Cogging torque and reluctance losses are always issues to be considered and dealt with by correct design and materials choice.

LARRYSEE YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO RE-POST YOUR PREVIOUS COMMENT - SO WE CAN ELIMINATE THIS DICK MEASURING BS ONCE AND FOR ALL AND GET DOWN TO BUSINESS.

T

CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #144 on: June 14, 2009, 03:24:21 PM »
"In my experience" this thread should be called Miscellaneous Perepetia, since the Perepetia effect is not limited to a specific design or anyones specific experience.

As I_ron so eloquently put it, the Perepetia effect is a mundane effect, and can manifest over a broad range of impedances and core designs. But it can still be useful, mundane or not.

Cheers

YOU ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION AS USUAL.

"IN MY EXPERIENCE" MEANS EXPERIMENTAL LAB TESTING EXPERIENCE NOT SOMEONE'S JADED AND CYNICAL OPINIONS - WHICH INCLUDES BOTH YOURS AND I_RON'S AT THIS POINT AND IS COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE TO THE ORIGINAL INTENTION OF THIS THREAD.

T




hoptoad

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #145 on: June 14, 2009, 03:31:32 PM »

WE ARE NOT NOR HAVE WE EVER BEEN IN THE GENERATOR CORE BUSINESS.

WE ARE IN THE GENERATOR REDUCTION OF ARMATURE REACTION BUSINESS.

Is that the Royal We ??

Hopefully everyone else is in the business of creating a better generator. Full stop!

How that is achieved, is something everyone can determine for themselves aided by their own observations and judgements based on their own data and experiments.

Cheers

CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #146 on: June 14, 2009, 03:43:26 PM »
Is that the Royal We ??

Cheers

AS I SAID, JADED AND CYNICAL.

AS FOR ANYONE ELSE ... PURE SCIENTIFIC ENQUIRY IN IT'S TRUEST FORM SHOULD BE PERFORMED WITH A CHILDLIKE WIDE EYED ENTHUSIASM AND SHOULD BE FUN!

CYNICS, NAYSAYERS, AND BUMMERISM PEOPLE WHO SAY IT CAN'T BE DONE (BY THEM)SHOULD BE IGNORED AT ALL COST.

T


hoptoad

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Miscellaneous Perepiteia - Variations of Lenzless Generator systems
« Reply #147 on: June 14, 2009, 03:45:27 PM »
LOL - now there you go trying to get all personal again. Stick to posting your data and having fun. Calling people names and casting aspersions at their character and motives is surely beneath you, isn't it?

Cheers

CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #148 on: June 14, 2009, 04:08:53 PM »
LOL - now there you go trying to get all personal again. Stick to posting your data and having fun. Calling people names and casting aspersions at their character and motives is surely beneath you, isn't it?

Cheers

STILL NOT PAYING ATTENTION - AS USUAL!

NOTHING IS BELOW, ABOVE OR OUT OF BOUNDS FOR CRANKpants AND THAT IS THEY KEY ELEMENT TO SUCCESS.

IN MY EXPERIENCE - THE MINUTE YOU SAY TO YOURSELF, "I CAN'T DO THAT, I CAN'T SAY THAT OR I CAN'T THINK THAT" THEN YOU MAY AS WELL BE DEAD BECAUSE YOU ARE NO LONGER FREE.

T
« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 05:12:30 PM by CRANKYpants »

hoptoad

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Re: Miscellaneous Perepiteia - Variations of Lenzless Generator systems
« Reply #149 on: June 14, 2009, 04:34:36 PM »
STILL NOT PAYING ATTENTION - AS USUAL!

NOTHING IS BELOW, ABOVE OR OUT OF BOUNDS FOR CRANKpants AND THAT IS THEY KEY ELEMENT TO SUCCESS.

IN MY EXPERIENCE - THE MINUTE YOU SAY TO YOURSELF, "I CAN'T DO THAT, I CAN'T SAY THAT OR I CAN'T THINK THAT" THEN YOU MAY AS WELL BE DEAD BECAUSE YOU ARE NO LONGER FREE.

T

I'm free to say and express whatever I want. Just like you. And everybody else is free to do their own experiments which will either verify your interpretations of the effect or find query with it.  Let the replicators make up their own minds!

Try feeling free to let others express themselves without your derision or brow beating.

Democracy is a wonderful thing. It only exists when we are free to disagree, without coercion to agree, nor comdemnation if we disagree.

Cheers