Author Topic: Homopolar Generators - Unanswered Questions and Design Details (Read 38492 times)

the_sealab_2021 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 30, 2009, 06:34:44 PM »

How fast does an unipolar rotor supposed to rotate (RPM's) in a magnetic field to generate at least the one volt its supposed to make per rotor?
What is considered too fast for a rotor that only produces one volt?

Dosent electrons flow from the center to the edge caused by centripetal and Centrifugal forces applied with a magnet field? the negative terminal is the edge of the rotor where the electrons are drawn off the rotor with a commutator right?

Please help me; I donâ€™t want to create unnecessary study thinking that the magnet does all the work on the homopolar generator pushing electrons up to a rotor surface to be collected by a commutator..

im designing an thin commutator to slide with but i dont know if it would melt with an rotor spinning to fast powering an coil load.

i saw a note to all about OU (over unity) and disk saturation requirements, what rpm's is that achieved with an rotor this small? (4 inches in dia)

Yucca · « **Reply #16 on:** May 31, 2009, 02:09:06 AM »

Quote from: Groundloop on May 30, 2009, 06:00:36 PM

Yucca,

You can easily test the theory on your existing test rotor. First make a copper ring with the same diameter as you magnet. Then solder 4 copper wires from the ring and to the center of the ring. Now you have a low resitive disk. Measure the voltage. Now replace the the 4 copper wires with resistors. Measure the voltage. More or less voltage?
...
I do not have any test setup right now. I contemplating buying some few Neo ring magnets with a diameter of 200mm and center hole of 20mm, thickness 5mm. But this will take 4 - 8 weeks to order. So for now I'm not able to test anything.

I will be grateful if you find the time to test the resistor theory on your rig.

Groundloop.

Interesting experiment, IÂ´ll probably try that. Because my brushes are noisy. I use a scope to look at the noisy output and then I can see the max levels reached. Give me a few days but IÂ´ll try it in the end.

Quote

If you use brushes then the heating element must be outside the rotating frame, eg. not rotating. If the heating element is rotating with the disc then there is no relative motion between the heating element and the disc, you can not extract power inside the rotating frame. You have already proven that.

In my mind I have only proven that part of the circuit must be outside of the rotating frame in order for potential to develop over the spinning disc. Do you agree that when a static brush is extracting power then that power must flow through the rotating disc. That disc has resistance so it should itself act as a heating element despite it being in the rotating frame?

It would be very handy to have a LED like device with a real low forward voltage, something to mount on the disc for doing tests like these. Even a joule thief requires 0.4v or so to light a LED, I canÂ´t get up to that voltage with my small mag.

The 200mm ring mag sounds massive! You could probably get some decent voltage out of that. I want one!

the_sealab_2021 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 31, 2009, 02:15:37 AM »

i have created an 2 sided copper PCB rotor just recently in college to experiment with, just showing to see if someone could agree that this baby could produce 2 volts each rotor.

i plan to build a frame for it soon, I'm so poor i must wait for advice to find out how fast this rotor should spin...

Yucca · « **Reply #18 on:** May 31, 2009, 02:16:26 AM »

Quote from: the_sealab_2021 on May 30, 2009, 06:34:44 PM

Dosent electrons flow from the center to the edge caused by centripetal and Centrifugal forces applied with a magnet field? the negative terminal is the edge of the rotor where the electrons are drawn off the rotor with a commutator right?

Please help me; I donâ€™t want to create unnecessary study thinking that the magnet does all the work on the homopolar generator pushing electrons up to a rotor surface to be collected by a commutator..

im designing an thin commutator to slide with but i dont know if it would melt with an rotor spinning to fast powering an coil load.

i saw a note to all about OU (over unity) and disk saturation requirements, what rpm's is that achieved with an rotor this small? (4 inches in dia)

At one point I also thought electrons were forced out by cetrifugal forces. I was wrong, you can reverse the polarity by reversing the spin or flipping the magnet.

RE saturation. I donÂ´t think youÂ´ll be able to saturate the thick copper disk your holding easily in a home lab environment, it looks fairly thick. But your PCB disk just might be possible?

I should point out, this saturation stuff is only hearsay to me, I havenÂ´t tested it yet.

Anyway you should definitely get your PCB disk loaded with mags and get it spinning as fast as you dare!

the_sealab_2021 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 31, 2009, 02:48:41 AM »

thanks for the info, I'm in the middle of redesigning air bearings for it since it should spin at such exaggerated rpm's.
i was wondering if i could spin it in a tank of liquid nitrogen or helium.
i wouldn't want it flying off like Frisbees so a shaft is being made.

Yucca · « **Reply #20 on:** May 31, 2009, 03:10:30 AM »

@Sealab

ItÂ´s difficult to calculate average B field over the entire disk, especially if you have lots of mags glued on. this makes it difficult to calculate output voltage. I can only recommend magging it up and spinning as fast as you can, then probe its voltage.

the_sealab_2021 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 31, 2009, 08:06:57 AM »

i don't plan to glue anything to a spinning object that could throw it off in the first place.

i wanted to know why would i use magnets on the rotor itself when an homopolar rotor generator would have an C magnet along one side according to Faraday's original design. ( Ive thought a coil magnet would not direct the current enough to one point of the rotor during operation)

i need more gibberish that wont kill me just yet, i have already spun the copper PCB rotor with an high speed drill chuck with magnets on the drill base and it causes the magnets to move around the base as it spins.

i assumed that the copper creates a torque with the magnetic Fields and I'm still experimenting with it. it ll take me a few months to acquire the proper equipment to test the voltage, i don't have any tester to test the available current and my first tester was an coil that attracted a magnet itself (It didn't work yet,I must wind a thick wired solenoid to prove the current there). I'm drawing pictures of possible coil configurations like on the first post. according to reverse polarity trick with a duel homopolar rotor configuration( if i use an insulated shaft) i might have discovered a way to link the 2 sides together carefully. ( it must stay balanced)

i appreciate your advice, i have no investors so I'm all alone in this idea of mine.

Groundloop · « **Reply #22 on:** May 31, 2009, 09:16:39 AM »

@Yucca,

I will look forward to you high resistance test, thanks.

You may be right about the static brush and current. I have never built a HPG so this is new to me. A little Joule Thief to test small voltages is a good idea. I think that if you short circuit the disk with a load and if the load is on the disk itself then you get the same voltage potential in the wire going from the rim of the disk to the load so that you get two voltages of the same magnitude, but with opposite polarity, canceling each other out. But as I said, this is new to me so I may be wrong.

This firm: http://www.supermagnete.de/eng/index.php
do sell custom designed magnets all over the world. I have a request to the firm but have not yet received an answer. But I bet those big Neo disks will be expensive.

Regards,
Groundloop.

Yucca · « **Reply #23 on:** May 31, 2009, 03:51:26 PM »

Quote from: Groundloop on May 31, 2009, 09:16:39 AM

This firm: http://www.supermagnete.de/eng/index.php
do sell custom designed magnets all over the world. I have a request to the firm but have not yet received an answer. But I bet those big Neo disks will be expensive.

I'll be interested to know the quote, maybe PM me when you get an answer from them. At the moment I have four of these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-Neodymium-Magnets-1-5-x-1-4-x-1-4-inch-Ring-N48_W0QQitemZ180254641719QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item29f8038e37&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A30

The same ebayer now sells these bigger ones which I'm tempted by, bigger diameter plus the eighth inch hole will go nicely onto a really high speed tiny brushless motor I have which is really efficient.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-Neodymium-Magnets-2-x-1-8-x-1-4-inch-Ring-N48_W0QQitemZ150262368979QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item22fc55cad3&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A30

Groundloop · « **Reply #24 on:** May 31, 2009, 05:33:54 PM »

@Yucca,

Sure, I'll PM you as soon as I get a response from the firm.

The 2 incs disk seems to be a perfect disk for small scale testing.

Groundloop.

Yucca · « **Reply #25 on:** June 01, 2009, 01:46:17 AM »

Looks like a nice homopolar genny someone is building for electrolysis and possible OU:

http://www.stardrivedevice.com/over-unity.html#dynamo_photos

Quote

The 18" Dynamo's projected net buss bar output voltage is 1.49 vdc at a max. rotation of 1900 rpm, just marginally greater than the theoretical optimum (ideal) water electrolysis voltage of 1.23 vdc, with no power conversion or transformation whatsoever required and with a corresponding max. load current of nearly 1,700 amps!

jadaro2600 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 02, 2009, 04:01:40 PM »

In the HPG, the radial vector is what initiates the motion of a classical setup. ..having a flat bifilar parallel pancake coil... the radial going back in will cancel the radial going out, even if the radial out is a longer measure, and a spiral, it's action will be the same as that of the shortest radial.

Not only this, the spiral vector will be subjected to the forces of it's own magnetic field, and though the eddy curents will be limited to flowing in the wire, they will still compund the dynamics of the situation.

..what you need is a silver disk.

carbon brushes, and an additional component(s) to generate a greater voltage.

Yucca · « **Reply #27 on:** June 02, 2009, 04:11:28 PM »

Quote from: jadaro2600 on June 02, 2009, 04:01:40 PM

In the HPG, the radial vector is what initiates the motion of a classical setup. ..having a flat bifilar parallel pancake coil... the radial going back in will cancel the radial going out, even if the radial out is a longer measure, and a spiral, it's action will be the same as that of the shortest radial.

Not only this, the spiral vector will be subjected to the forces of it's own magnetic field, and though the eddy curents will be limited to flowing in the wire, they will still compund the dynamics of the situation.

I agree, I don't see any benefit of spiral coils. But perhaps a disk split into many smaller radials (spokes) would reduce eddy currents in lower loading situations?

The easiest way to make such a rotor would be to create a hires mask and then make a PCB disc, have a solid axis ring and a solid circumference ring connected by a thousand spokes each spoke seperated by only a hairswidth. The outer circumference ring could extend just over the mag disk and that area could be used for stout brush contacts.

the_sealab_2021 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 22, 2009, 06:32:28 PM »

the new electrolaser was just brought in to irritate the copper rotor during conduction experiments. reflecting electromagnetic spectrum's caused difficulty probing the freaking disk.

DC turbine designs are being drafted as you read

its going to take me a year to grind this air hockey puck cup holder at a local college to collect static buildup w/ niobium seed

who buys these things?

the_sealab_2021 · « **Reply #29 on:** August 25, 2009, 01:31:39 AM »

Quote from: the_sealab_2021 on August 22, 2009, 06:32:28 PM

the new electrolaser was just brought in to irritate the copper rotor during conduction experiments. reflecting electromagnetic spectrum's caused difficulty probing the freaking disk.

DC turbine designs are being drafted as you read

its going to take me a year to grind this air hockey puck cup holder at a local college to collect static buildup w/ niobium seed

who buys these things?

I'm trying to buy electrolaser material from scratch after i borrowed one and it seems that theories are priceless related to cargo supplied

I'm trying to prevent this electrolaser electroshock weapon from being used by government to torture USA populations with taxation forced as robbery.

I'm using this website to claim the effects of the electrolaser on a rotating silver plated copper disk target for pure overunity effects that i cannot afford completely yet, not enough college loan, and i wont tell yet since its already notarized on draft paper for 2050 aircraft engines

beware of government theft stealing inventions for profit controlling society please

peace to you on earth for power directly from your home alone and not from taxed sources of government need of human taxation, systems have killed alot of scientist for not being able to pay for the invention plans

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Author Topic: Homopolar Generators - Unanswered Questions and Design Details (Read 38492 times)

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