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Author Topic: The way Lenz force can accelerate a magnet  (Read 10889 times)

Offline cala

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The way Lenz force can accelerate a magnet
« on: May 23, 2009, 01:31:48 PM »
Hello.

Sometime ago I posted on Physicsforums the way we can use the Lenz force to accelerate a rotating magnet instead opposing it, as usual.

It is based on the idea of getting a "delay" between the real magnet poles position and the lines of magnetic flux cut by 2 coils wired around a pure iron ring path. Please, read it and take a look to the drawings:

http://physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=310587

Everything seems to work as explained, but still I have no answer from moderators (in fact from nobody) about from where the energy of the coils could came from... Because finally we have free energy doing the things this way!

The coils will react to the flux variation created by the rotation of the magnet, creating an EMF that will create a current that will create a magnetic field that finallly... Will help the magnet rotation, because magnet poles are not "in phase" with the flux seen by the coils!

This setup is so simple that any "skilled" person with the hability and materials to test it could verify if i'm right or wrong.

If we are able to avoid mechanical opposition to the magnet (so avoiding loose of kinetic energy, and in fact accelerating the magnet)... Where do the energy of the coils come from? Why magnetic flux change on a coil is able to "create" energy??

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Offline cala

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Re: The way Lenz force can accelerate a magnet
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2009, 01:44:04 PM »
I realized that you will not be able to see the pictures if you are not member of Physicsforums, so I post the pictures here...

Offline ramset

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Re: The way Lenz force can accelerate a magnet
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2009, 02:12:09 PM »
Cala
Amazing  post
what do you think of this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jplGJ_cH6pQ

Chet

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Re: The way Lenz force can accelerate a magnet
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2009, 02:12:09 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The way Lenz force can accelerate a magnet
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2009, 03:01:05 PM »
It seems to me that any real material would have resistance. So the eddys will create losses by Joule heating of the material. Since you have by hypothesis eliminated all other frictional losses, this might be the only impediment to your idea.
If you use a SC for the eddy yoke the field lines will be pinned and the magnet won't spin (not in the direction you want anyway) I think.

Offline broli

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Re: The way Lenz force can accelerate a magnet
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2009, 03:02:41 PM »
So I spent some time analyzing what you were saying and this is the conclusion I came up with.

I believe you are misunderstanding the attraction and repulsion between the induced electromagnet and the permanent magnet. According to my analysis the magnet will undergo a torque counter to the direction of rotation. You can simply demonstrate this using a compass as the permanent magnet and a permanent as the EM. This might seem logical as the compass wants to align with the field but the same thing will happen in your idea.

See attached below.

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Re: The way Lenz force can accelerate a magnet
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2009, 03:02:41 PM »
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Offline petersone

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Re: The way Lenz force can accelerate a magnet
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2009, 03:07:46 PM »
H cala
I have done some little tests with what you have shown,but found normal Lenz effect,don't know why it was different to what you found,the only thing of interest was if you use the same poles, either all north or all south,you get a dc brushless genny,I think.
peter

Offline cala

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Re: The way Lenz force can accelerate a magnet
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2009, 03:50:14 PM »
I did some simulations with FEMM, and everything seemed to be as expected.

Broli: You have to think that one side of the coil want to atract the pole, and the other repel. In any case, the biggest action is always the one that helps the rotation of the magnet.

Torque calculations with that kind of poles and magnetic field intensities say the induced field will help the rotation...

I can't say if the eddy currents or building the real thing will work the other way.

The theory gives the values posted, and simulations appear to be in accordance. But this of course is not the real thing...

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Re: The way Lenz force can accelerate a magnet
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2009, 03:50:14 PM »
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Offline Paul-R

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Re: The way Lenz force can accelerate a magnet
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2009, 03:59:29 PM »

Everything seems to work as explained, but still I have no answer from moderators (in fact from nobody) about from where the energy of the coils could came from... Because finally we have free energy doing the things this way!
It'll be from the usual source; those pesky particles that flip into existance as + or - charged particles and then are gone as soon as they arrive.

Disturb the symmetry - create a dipole - stick it in their midst, a Bob's your uncle.

viz:
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk
http://www.cheniere.org

and google "Hal Puthoff" and "Lee and Yang", Nobel Physics prizewinners for 1957.

(Also, have a look at the Phi trtansformer)

Offline cala

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Re: The way Lenz force can accelerate a magnet
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2009, 05:38:37 PM »
OMG!!
To Paul-R: The Phi Transformer is exactly the same thing i'm talking about!!!!  :o :o
I didn't knew this thing ever existed!!! :o :o

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Re: The way Lenz force can accelerate a magnet
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2009, 05:38:37 PM »
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Offline Paul-R

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Re: The way Lenz force can accelerate a magnet
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2009, 03:46:42 PM »
OMG!!
To Paul-R: The Phi Transformer is exactly the same thing i'm talking about!!!!  :o :o
I didn't knew this thing ever existed!!! :o :o
We've all done this several times. Build on their progress.

Some people think that too much energy is used up altering the magnetic status of the material of the toroid. i think there is a project here.
Paul.

p.s. Check out Jog-Sok An. I cannot fathom out how his coils work in three dimensions

Offline petersone

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Re: The way Lenz force can accelerate a magnet
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2009, 04:38:05 PM »
Hi Broli
My feeling exactly,if it were to feel attraction on the way in,it wouldn't need a motor,it would drive it's self!! wonderful if true.
peter

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Re: The way Lenz force can accelerate a magnet
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2009, 04:38:05 PM »
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