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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling: Working Principle  (Read 13307 times)

Offline AquariuZ

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Sjack Abeling: Working Principle
« on: May 17, 2009, 01:13:37 PM »
It has been some time since Sjack Abeling was brought to the attention of this forum, and I would like to test the opinion of anyone interested in this particular topic to see what credibility Abeling has amongst you.

Thank you in advance for your vote.

AZ

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline stgpcm

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Re: Sjack Abeling: Working Principle
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2009, 03:30:05 PM »
No, not from what has been guessed so far. But it's possible he has come up with something other than ramps and slots, but that's so unlikely "Inclined to say no but need to see more evidence either way" is too wish washy a choice.


Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Sjack Abeling: Working Principle
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2009, 03:54:34 PM »
I think so, but I still have some reservations

Seeing a wheel do its thing from up close with my own eyes would bring me one category up.
Abeling's implicite ideas, so professionally exposed by this forum's members, to me seems like the most viable way to go about getting free energy from gravity, to date. I am less than satisfied with Abeling's and this forums explanations as to WHY this works. There must be something very fundamentally different, easily quantifyable, about Abeling's ideas if they make the difference between no-perpetuum mobile and yes-perpetuum mobile.
Abeling reporting on TV that his device needs to be constraited to prevent it from self-destructing after continious acceleration, is a most bold of statements, and coming from a man a he comes across, seems less than a lie at first glance. He seems secure enough, is not taking money from his website's visitors, and has a patent application in place. Time will tell, but some will not be prepared to wait, and just test the ideas best they can, with their own hands and minds.

Total Members Voted: 8
None so far chose : "Inclined to say no, but..."
You'd expect a bunch of scientists and FE sceptics to statistically pick this answer more often.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling: Working Principle
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2009, 03:54:34 PM »
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Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Sjack Abeling: Working Principle
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2009, 04:33:46 PM »
I give Sjack Abeling about the same amount of credibility as Archer Quinn.

Hans von Lieven

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Sjack Abeling: Working Principle
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2009, 04:57:02 PM »
Sjack Abeling is doing nothing but trying to make an old design work that won't.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling: Working Principle
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2009, 04:57:02 PM »
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Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Sjack Abeling: Working Principle
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2009, 05:01:05 PM »
Sjack Abeling is doing nothing but trying to make an old design work that won't.
Interesting. Would this be valid as prior art to his patent application?
If so, the patent office should be made aware of it.
In the event that Abeling's design can be made to work, it IS open source?

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Sjack Abeling: Working Principle
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2009, 05:09:21 PM »
Interesting. Would this be valid as prior art to his patent application?
If so, the patent office should be made aware of it.
In the event that Abeling's design can be made to work, it IS open source?

Yes it is prior art to his patent application. But I can't tell you how old but I believe it came from a older book about perpetual motion.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling: Working Principle
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2009, 05:09:21 PM »
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Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Sjack Abeling: Working Principle
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2009, 06:06:42 PM »

Please post the cover and bibliographical details on that book please? The roughest scans would be the best.

Yes it is prior art to his patent application. But I can't tell you how old but I believe it came from a older book about perpetual motion.
This might be significant for the future of free energy.
I grant anyone their patent, I've worked for the EPO even, and am now co-writer of one myself, but only when all rules are obeyed.
Surely Abeling and his patent attorney were not aware of this prior art, or perhaps they have reason to believe his invention adds to it significantly.
In any case, if specialists like yourself consider this picture a possible prior art, it is your moral duty to bring it to the attention of the patent office to consider in their investigation.
No-one should be allowed to patent something which has been previously published, be it with serious intensions or to redicule. Investigators unfortunately can only spend so much time on their work. They'll do their best, but at one point will have to call.
Especially if this forum's replicators come to the conclusion that indeed Abeling might have something here, this evidence could be vital for the future of the FE world.

Also, I must say I'm quite stuck by the simplicity shown in that drawing. One outer guide, and it seems to do nothing differently than Abeling's replication as Dusty is building it. More considered shapes and dimensions, but otherwise only more complicated.

Offline stgpcm

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Re: Sjack Abeling: Working Principle
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2009, 06:10:34 PM »
If he has a working wheel, that non working wheel isn't prior art.

Let's see the working one, then work out what the kick is, and then see what prior art there may be.

I'm slightly worried by the base of that one though - It needs to be closer to the front of the machine.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling: Working Principle
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2009, 06:10:34 PM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Sjack Abeling: Working Principle
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2009, 06:23:13 PM »
Cloxxki

 If it is so and the book is found then the patent would have been a big waste of money. But if it has enough differences then the patent can still be valid. 

 But as stgpcm  pointed out
>>Let's see the working one, then work out what the kick is, and then see what prior art there may be.<<

The biggest fear I have is that it is a deal where other people get involve and they try to see what has been done and what they can do, and if they get a runner then the patent holder even though incomplete can take it and claim it. Before I would even try to build the Sjack Abeling device. I would have to have proof that it truly is already running. This we still don't have, just speculations and a paper for patent. If patented and a runner. Why is there no proof of its existence?

Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Sjack Abeling: Working Principle
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2009, 06:26:22 PM »
If he has a working wheel, that non working wheel isn't prior art.

Let's see the working one, then work out what the kick is, and then see what prior art there may be.

I'm slightly worried by the base of that one though - It needs to be closer to the front of the machine.
The patent procedure requires a construction to be new and makeble. Hovering beams or weightless parts for instance, would run into objections.
Whether it works or not, for the patent office is less relevant. The applicant pays very good money, and is only making problems for itself to spend in on something unworthy of intellectual protection.

If Abeling's wheel works, and his application is granted on the basis of being a new construction, we would have the right to replicate the maching in the old picture and try to get it to work as well. Abeling would have no ground to object to us, unless he would be willing to withdraw his patent. In any case, the construction shown on the old drawing can now be freely used, at least when it's at least 20 years old and not otherwize claimed by its original inventor or fiction author/artist.

So, when Abeling's machine proves to work, I'm looking into this prior art as a way to make my own, something open source which in fact it already is. Every idea ever openly presented or too long ago claimed, is now open source. Our job is to put all the failures to good use. Today we have ceramic bearing, magnetical levitation, and large vacuum chambers. We have low friction as a weapon against ancient inventors.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling: Working Principle
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2009, 06:26:22 PM »
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Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Sjack Abeling: Working Principle
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2009, 06:38:22 PM »
Cloxxki



 But as stgpcm  pointed out
>>Let's see the working one, then work out what the kick is, and then see what prior art there may be.<<

The biggest fear I have is that it is a deal where other people get involve and they try to see what has been done and what they can do, and if they get a runner then the patent holder even though incomplete can take it and claim it. Before I would even try to build the Sjack Abeling device. I would have to have proof that it truly is already running. This we still don't have, just speculations and a paper for patent. If patented and a runner. Why is there no proof of its existence?
> If it is so and the book is found then the patent would have been a big waste of
> money. But if it has enough differences then the patent can still be valid. 
So far I'm with you (I'm not a native English speaker as you will have noticed).
Abeling may get his patent, but not the sole right to a gravity wheel. The open source community has a prior art in hand to use as a guide when trying to make Abeling's invention obsolete, or at least find a non-patent protected alternative.
Who knows, Abeling may have read the same book, done some calculations we can only dream about, and then figured out a specific patentable setup. In that case, he's the smartest man alive. If both ideas work when properly executed, he's the second smartest man ever, likely the only alive judging from the image art style.

For the rest, the language barrier is preventing me from understanding your point. As long as we stick to solutions from prior art, and stay away from those features in Abeling's applications we consider "not new", we are safe, and Abeling has little to complain about. He's been an inspirator for sure, but not one with any rights.
If I were to come up with a working alternative, I'd approach the man to seek his input. He'll have to know I will get there anyway, but his input may be benificial for the world. His investors have less of a security, but still a head start in having Abeling's calculations making their machinery run the best.
Before energy prices take a tumble, first we'll see increased investments and employment from these devices. People will be using such free energy long before we're able to buy it from power companies.
If we're to belief all accounts, many are already powering their houses from such generators, just keeping it low key.

Offline powercat

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Re: Sjack Abeling: Working Principle
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2009, 06:59:09 PM »
The 13th vote is in                        cat

Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Sjack Abeling: Working Principle
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2009, 07:02:40 PM »
The 13th vote is in                        cat
So complicated that no-one will ever try to understand, let alone copy it? A small generator (or engine?) for such a monster machine.

Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling: Working Principle
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2009, 08:00:59 PM »
I do not think that previous is the same as the patent, check Fig. 8. I still feel the missing element are springs that connect pairs of weights and create the shot put effect in the upper left corner.

I voted: need more evidence

 

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