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Author Topic: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?  (Read 26176 times)

Offline Xaverius

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Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2010, 07:20:33 AM »
Closing the loop on this device should be simple in principle.  You could use a solenoid plunger or pulse motor rotation.  Have you checked the results of Raymond Heade's work in the Dallas Texas area?  He was supposed to have built a large outdoor device with an attachment to close the loop in October of 2009.  I haven't kept up with it lately, you might write Raymond, he's easy to talk to and his input is in these forums.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline AnandAadhar

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Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2010, 04:31:06 PM »
You should move the discussion on Milkovic's oscillator to the main topic, so that others can follow every new progress in one place
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1763.1380

@AnandAadhar

you should read these two papers published by Milkovic team on attempts to mechanically close the loop

Mechanical Feedback Loop Problems and Possible Solutions for the Two-Stage Oscillator of Veljko Milkovic
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Mechanical_Feedback_Loop.pdf

Keys of Understanding Gravity Machines of Veljko Milkovic
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Key_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf

I've also built a looped oscillator with a disc out of balance. No overunity found. But it is a nice preparation for Finsrud's way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYAKzW0H2yY

see the discussion there:http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1763.1380

Offline mr_bojangles

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Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2010, 04:20:59 AM »
easiest way without modifying the general function is..........build two of the same size and weights.....

works with electrical generators too, use one as the "motor" and one as the "generator"

both can be used in place of the other...so logically ones output should be able to match the input of the second


easiest test for any PMM

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2010, 04:20:59 AM »
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Offline Aemilius

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The Cole Mechanism - A solution to "The Milkovic Problem"
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2012, 08:31:29 PM »
Milkovic's arrangement will not "close the loop".... http://thecolemechanism.blogspot.com/
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 10:16:07 PM by Aemilius »

Offline johnny874

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Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2012, 06:01:45 PM »
All,
If indeed output is greater than input as so nicely demonstrated with the squeeze-lamps by its inventor on video's (don't have them handy now), how hard would it be to gather some electricity from the output, and use it to, pinball machine style, give the pendulum a small push, perhaps even twice a full swing?
It seems that all that's needed is then one or a few initial pushes, and the thing could sustain itself, as well as doing some useful work on top of that?
The pinball setup would ensure good impuls, at exactly the right time. One could even devise a secundary pendulum, to let the actuator be amplitude-independent. But carefully monitoring work done should realtively easily be able to keep the pendulum swinging with it's uptimum range.
I can imagine closing the loop mechanically, but that seems to stumble on more timing issues. If such a loop has been closed before, please point me to coverage of that?

Thanks,

J

reply #116 is an idea I have sent to Jovan Milkovic. Thought I'd let you know.
Re: My Invention« Reply #116 on: September 08, 2012, 10:13:47 AM

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Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2012, 06:01:45 PM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2012, 06:03:26 PM »
It's all about timing!

 ruggero was real close, it's a shame no one thought of pushing the weight which is how they gain their inital force.

Offline ltseung888

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Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2014, 12:04:33 AM »
 
You should move the discussion on Milkovic's oscillator to the main topic, so that others can follow every new progress in one place
 http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1763.1380
 
 @AnandAadhar
 
 you should read these two papers published by Milkovic team on attempts to mechanically close the loop
 
 Mechanical Feedback Loop Problems and Possible Solutions for the Two-Stage Oscillator of Veljko Milkovic
 http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Mechanical_Feedback_Loop.pdf
 
 Keys of Understanding Gravity Machines of Veljko Milkovic
 http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Key_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf
 

I accidentally found this thread this morning. It looks like one of the experimenters working with Milkovic actually studied and commented on the Lee-Tseung Lead-out energy theory.
 
I believe that he missed a few important points:
 
1. In supplying 2 parts of horizontal energy to lead-out 1 part of vertical (graviational) energy, 3 parts of energy goes into the system. The 2 parts of horizonntal energy is not "converted" as heat or other forms. But if you stop supplying the horizontal energy, no more vertical energy will be lead-out or brought-in.
 
2. If we look at the youtube video:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8
 
you will notice that the lifting of the weight only occurred at large angle of swing.  This is in line with our full analysis.  The experimenter failed to use this fact and used small angle of swing only.
 
3. The experimenter did not realize that we can effectively increase the gravitational force by using a magnetic pendulum with other permanent magnets placed appropriately.  Both the direction and magnitude of the “gravitational force” can be varied.  This is the key to the next stage.
 
4. The experimenter rightly agreed that an unbalanced wheel is equivalent to a pendulum but with the added advantage that the period of oscillation is not dependent on the length (but on speed of rotation).
 
5.  A “balanced” wheel when subjected to pulses and varying magnetic fields can lead-out the electromagnetic energy.  This is a follow-up consequence of leading-out gravitational energy.
 
 
 
I shall try to contact the experimenter directly and share some insights.
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2014, 12:04:33 AM »
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Offline ltseung888

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Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2014, 08:08:23 AM »
This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification from hotmail.
 
Delivery to the following recipients failed.
 
       jmarjanovic@hotmail.com
 
I shall quote his comments and further discuss the points raised here.
 

Offline iacob alex

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Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2014, 05:05:10 PM »
      Hi  !
With a double oscillatory system ( Milkovic / lever - pendulum type ) it's questionable to " Close   the loop " / to obtain a continuous regular process .
Let's remind Galileo and his shorted pendulum , at :
 www.thomasksimpson.com/dialectical_images/19.jpg
With  a double pendulum (if we replace a pendulum with a double pendulum...) , at :
 http://blogs.mathworks.com/images/pick/doublependulum_animation.gif  , we can have some not consistent /irregular results , maybe...for a continuous erratic simple machine ?!
      Al_ex

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2014, 05:05:10 PM »
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Offline ltseung888

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Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2014, 08:37:05 PM »
 
Hi !
 With a double oscillatory system ( Milkovic / lever - pendulum type ) it's questionable to " Close the loop " / to obtain a continuous regular process .
 …..
 Al_ex
 
2. If we look at the youtube video:
 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8
 
 you will notice that the lifting of the weight only occurred at large angle of swing. This is in line with our full analysis. The experimenter failed to use this fact and used small angle of swing only.
The Milkovic lever pendulum type pendulum as shown in the above quoted youtube video can be considered as having the following:
1.    A simple pendulum to accept input.
2.    A lever system to convert the swinging energy into lifting a weight.
3.    The lifting of the weight occurs only at large angle of swing.
4.    One push of the pendulum corresponds to twice lifting of the weight.
5.    The Output energy can be determined accurately by the total height of the weight times the mass of the weight times g. (The total potential energy or work done in lifting the weight.)
Output Energy = mgh
6.    The Input energy can be determined accurately by replacing the pendulum bob with a magnet with the S pole facing RHS.  A solenoid or electromagnet driven by pulsed direct current can be used to generate repulsion. There can be a sensor mechanism to determine the start of the pulse.  The pulse duration can be adjusted.  The Input Energy can be determined accurately via an oscilloscope via integrating the Voltage and Current of the Pulse.
7.    Note that the experiment must be done at large angles when the weight is actually lifted.
 
Most of the loopback attempts do NOT satisfy point 7.  Failure is expected…..
 
This particular experiment simplifies the overunity determination as it eliminates the losses and mechanical complications.
Some experimenters who already built similar devices can modify to test the above 7 points.
 
Divine Revelation?

Offline ltseung888

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Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2014, 11:14:32 PM »
The Milkovic lever pendulum type pendulum as shown in the above quoted youtube video can be considered as having the following:
1.    A simple pendulum to accept input.
2.    A lever system to convert the swinging energy into lifting a weight.
3.    The lifting of the weight occurs only at large angle of swing.
4.    One push of the pendulum corresponds to twice lifting of the weight.
5.    The Output energy can be determined accurately by the total height of the weight times the mass of the weight times g. (The total potential energy or work done in lifting the weight.)
Output Energy = mgh
6.    The Input energy can be determined accurately by replacing the pendulum bob with a magnet with the S pole facing RHS.  A solenoid or electromagnet driven by pulsed direct current can be used to generate repulsion. There can be a sensor mechanism to determine the start of the pulse.  The pulse duration can be adjusted.  The Input Energy can be determined accurately via an oscilloscope via integrating the Voltage and Current of the Pulse.
7.    Note that the experiment must be done at large angles when the weight is actually lifted.
 
Most of the loopback attempts do NOT satisfy point 7.  Failure is expected…..
 
This particular experiment simplifies the overunity determination as it eliminates the losses and mechanical complications.
Some experimenters who already built similar devices can modify to test the above 7 points.
 
Divine Revelation?
7.    Note that the experiment must be done at large angles when the weight is actually lifted.
In Physics, work is done (energy is spent) only when there is displacement.  With the many looped mechanisms shown on the Internet, the experimenters missed that point totally.  So far, I have not seen a single experiment that used the large angle with actual lifting of the weight.  If the experiments were done with small angles without lifting the weight, no OUTPUT work was done.  No overunity effect can be seen.
The main thread is too long.  Can someone familiar with that thread comment on this "new insight"?
 
Divine Revelation?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2014, 11:14:32 PM »
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Offline ltseung888

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Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2014, 12:33:57 AM »
In analyzing the Milkovic 2 stage pendulum as shown on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6Qlj1Mbo8

We noted that after 2.30 minutes, a single push by the hand will lift the weight twice.  On close examination, the lifting of the Weight appeared to be when the pendulum bob is swinging with the maximum velocity at the vertical position.   
 
It should now be clear to all experimenters that any overunity measurement or loopback mechanism MUST be done at large angles when the weight is actually lifted.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 11:19:17 AM by ltseung888 »

Offline markdansie

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Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2014, 04:51:08 AM »
Hi 888
no amount of theoretical calculations can replace a simple running device demonstrating a closed loop. It might be better trying to explain the energy cycle.
Kind Regards
Mark

 

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