Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics

  • *Total Members: 83955
  • *Latest: serials

  • *Total Posts: 525623
  • *Total Topics: 15646
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 3
  • *Guests: 11
  • *Total: 14

Author Topic: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?  (Read 26194 times)

Offline Cloxxki

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 825
All,
If indeed output is greater than input as so nicely demonstrated with the squeeze-lamps by its inventor on video's (don't have them handy now), how hard would it be to gather some electricity from the output, and use it to, pinball machine style, give the pendulum a small push, perhaps even twice a full swing?
It seems that all that's needed is then one or a few initial pushes, and the thing could sustain itself, as well as doing some useful work on top of that?
The pinball setup would ensure good impuls, at exactly the right time. One could even devise a secundary pendulum, to let the actuator be amplitude-independent. But carefully monitoring work done should realtively easily be able to keep the pendulum swinging with it's uptimum range.
I can imagine closing the loop mechanically, but that seems to stumble on more timing issues. If such a loop has been closed before, please point me to coverage of that?

Thanks,

J
« Last Edit: May 10, 2009, 12:32:42 PM by Cloxxki »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline tagor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1333
Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2009, 12:19:41 PM »

If indeed output is greater than input as so nicely demontrated

sorry but it is NOT demonstrated

and

nobody can loop this Milkovic's two-stage !!

Offline ruggero

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2009, 12:46:14 PM »
It's all about timing!
« Last Edit: May 10, 2009, 01:13:12 PM by ruggero »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2009, 12:46:14 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Cloxxki

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 825
Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2009, 12:55:38 PM »
Hey, if it's not proven yet, the proper timing (solved by the pinball device) might help towards disprove or otherwise firmly comfirm it.
When a pinball touches the bounce plate, a current start running triggering the plate to repell the ball. If the pendulum is a ball, the slight push could come just when it's needed.

In case of too strong a pendulum swing, the piball plate could be mounted on a spring, to absorb and then reverse the impuls. If at the sme time the load setting on the generator is increased accordingly, the next pendulum incoming swing should be reduced already.

If none works, then apparently all the devise does, is concentrate force to momentarily apply more weight than the pendulum's weight could apply constantly. Like jumping on the bathroom scale. It WILL show more than you weight, as long as you spend some time in mid-air and put all your weight back on the scales.

Just trying to come up with an idea to (dis)prove that the machine is overunity.

Who knows, perhaps the same slight impuls from the "hand", with a longer levers, could also lift such heavy weights or compress that many squeeze lamps.

Offline ruggero

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2009, 07:47:33 PM »
Cloxxki:

Try look at this interesting ball-clock system.

http://www.betrisey.ch/ecyclo.htm


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2009, 07:47:33 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Cloxxki

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 825
Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2009, 09:28:32 PM »
Nice image ruggero! Just migth work, and just might not.
A pendulum being free swinging though, at least the thing won't grind itself to pieces when engaged.

My last name is actually a translation of "clock". I like that thing, but wonder if it has any other sytem keeping it running. The falling balls seems to be for the timing, not for winding?

Offline utilitarian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 816
Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2009, 09:30:47 PM »
All,
If indeed output is greater than input as so nicely demonstrated with the squeeze-lamps by its inventor on videos.

How does the squeeze lamp demo prove anything?  Yes, the flashlight in hand lights up, and all the other bulbs light up.  So what?  The human hand is putting in way more energy than what is output.  Suppose the flashlight in the hand was broken and did not light up?  The experiment would not be any different.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2009, 09:30:47 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline AnandAadhar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 169
    • The Order of Time
Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2010, 03:32:54 PM »
sorry but it is NOT demonstrated

and

nobody can loop this Milkovic's two-stage !!

Well, nobody... Studying the pendulum to drive a flywheel, I've also studied the two-phase pendulum of Milkovic, and looped the two phase pendulum succesfully with a flywheel and a feedback magnet pulsing back the pendulum, but it gave no overunity in my set-up. It works indeed as he demonstrates, the pendulum being pushed can drive a wheel or a pump. But claiming overunity here is a bridge too far to my opinion. Milkovic inertial oscillator is inspiring though. The principle works best if you create a disc with a weight positioned on one side and then vibrate the axis in a linear fashion. That easily gives a turning rotor. Thus it is suited for converting a linear movement into a cyclic one. Inertial oscillation is a principle used by Finsrud also in His perpetuum mobile. His ball is the weight oscillating the central pendulum in his machine. So there is a connection with PM and OU. But gravity (like magnetism) alone is conservative and will not deliver energy without engaging magnetism actively with this gavitational oscillator e.g..   That is my conclusion as yet.


My Milkovic replication Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJsXLiLNJHA
My Finsrud analysis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9GucVwc36Q

Offline tagor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1333
Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2010, 04:11:36 PM »
Well, nobody... Studying the pendulum to drive a flywheel, I've also studied the two-phase pendulum of Milkovic, and looped the two phase pendulum succesfully with a flywheel and a feedback magnet pulsing back the pendulum, but it gave no overunity in my set-up. It works indeed as he demonstrates, the pendulum being pushed can drive a wheel or a pump. But claiming overunity here is a bridge too far to my opinion. Milkovic inertial oscillator is inspiring though. The principle works best if you create a disc with a weight positioned on one side and then vibrate the axis in a linear fashion. That easily gives a turning rotor. Thus it is suited for converting a linear movement into a cyclic one. Inertial oscillation is a principle used by Finsrud also in His perpetuum mobile. His ball is the weight oscillating the central pendulum in his machine. So there is a connection with PM and OU. But gravity (like magnetism) alone is conservative and will not deliver energy without engaging magnetism actively with this gavitational oscillator e.g..   That is my conclusion as yet.


My Milkovic replication Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJsXLiLNJHA
My Finsrud analysis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9GucVwc36Q

very good work !!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2010, 04:11:36 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Hoxan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2010, 04:13:57 PM »
Nice work, but, in order to get large kinetic energy on side where work is being done you need to have pendulum swinging at least 60° to its vertical axis. Pendulum potential force (energy) has to be greater or equal to centrifugal force (energy, angular momentum), ideal case is at 90° because there is no force on x nor y axis. This is the best case for bearings as well as they work in special case here > static friction is reduced to minimum.

I am working with friend on replicating device and have conducted a lot of research and simulations in Working Model / Solidworks. At this point i think the best way to drive pendulum is using magbot pendulum, 3 coils for 75° pendulum angle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNn4Ebq7IYU

and transform linear motion to rotatial motian with this device:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a49d5cJOGQ0
and connecting it to a generator that is being looped to magbot pendulum

on pic, right graph shows kinetic energy of square and potential energy of pendulum ratio when "small" angle is used (54°)
(http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2552/test7.th.jpg)

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2010, 05:08:41 PM »
@AnandAadhar,

Thank you very much for posting these videos. You are doing a great job and it should be encouraged. I wish there were more people like you and in this way the world will recognize sooner these discoveries.

As you may know, I visited Finsrud personally and then posted two ~45min videos of his perpetuum mobile also presenting it as the first openly demonstrated perpetuum mobile in history. There are still some subtleties, however, brought about by critics (I'm, of course, ignoring the general unsubstantiated negativism by a great many self-proclaimed experts) which I think need to be addressed and I'd like to ask you about your opinion.

One critic claimed that this is just a very efficient re-distributor of the initially imparted energy. As you know, this is not a self-starter but Finsrud has to push the ball along the track initially in order to start the machine. If it really is only an efficient re-distributor of that initially imparted energy it may go on turning for quite a few days but it will inevitably stop at one point. I know his explanation for that ceasing of motion claiming that's only due to wearing out of the parts and thus changing the initial mechanical conditions. Also, there's dust, humidity, change of temperature etc. which may play a role. But, still, supposing such factors as the stopping mechanism isn't enough as proof.

Second critic insisted that Finsrud is winding up the machine when cleaning the track with a cloth before the initial push. There's one large spring in the center (besides the many other springs which the device is sprinkled with) which that critic claims to be the driving spring after winding it up.

How would you address these two points?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2010, 05:08:41 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline mscoffman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1377
Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2010, 07:25:01 PM »
How does the squeeze lamp demo prove anything?  Yes, the flashlight in hand lights up, and all the other bulbs light up.  So what?  The human hand is putting in way more energy than what is output.  Suppose the flashlight in the hand was broken and did not light up?  The experiment would not be any different.


@utilitarian;

If you mentally “OR” the output flashlights when they are “on” you are
supposed to convince yourself that this is more energy then the person
expends at the input flashlight.

It would be very easy to test if this is true by removing the lamps from
the flashlights and “OR”ing the power together electrically through diodes
into a 1000uf+ electrolytic filter capacitor.

Then build a fairly hefty Bedini mirror circuit and coil to add energy
to swing the input Pendulum, using a Neo magnet glued to the base
of it. (ie. no batteries for CF)

This would be a very simple task to get a high quality result. They
would either get it to work *or* they could stop lying with videos.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Offline AnandAadhar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 169
    • The Order of Time
Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2010, 02:58:29 PM »
@AnandAadhar,

Thank you very much for posting these videos. You are doing a great job and it should be encouraged. I wish there were more people like you and in this way the world will recognize sooner these discoveries.

As you may know, I visited Finsrud personally and then posted two ~45min videos of his perpetuum mobile also presenting it as the first openly demonstrated perpetuum mobile in history. There are still some subtleties, however, brought about by critics (I'm, of course, ignoring the general unsubstantiated negativism by a great many self-proclaimed experts) which I think need to be addressed and I'd like to ask you about your opinion.

One critic claimed that this is just a very efficient re-distributor of the initially imparted energy. As you know, this is not a self-starter but Finsrud has to push the ball along the track initially in order to start the machine. If it really is only an efficient re-distributor of that initially imparted energy it may go on turning for quite a few days but it will inevitably stop at one point. I know his explanation for that ceasing of motion claiming that's only due to wearing out of the parts and thus changing the initial mechanical conditions. Also, there's dust, humidity, change of temperature etc. which may play a role. But, still, supposing such factors as the stopping mechanism isn't enough as proof.

Second critic insisted that Finsrud is winding up the machine when cleaning the track with a cloth before the initial push. There's one large spring in the center (besides the many other springs which the device is sprinkled with) which that critic claims to be the driving spring after winding it up.

How would you address these two points?
Thank you the same for posting your video's. I still wonder since what a visit of mine might add to yours.  As for those points:
Well, first of all Finsrud's machine runs for quite some more time than a few days, even though there is dust collected on the track. isn't it months? Also regular realignment of the magnets seems to be necessary. This is normal maintenance. Not an energizing action. In my opinion he has mechanically found the definition of time as the found restlessness between the basic forces of gravity and magnetism in a decreased probability of equiibrium. He is one of the few who throws light on this matter of time as a direct source of material energy.  One replication suffices to change the world of physics. Till then it is just kinetic artwork with possibly a hidden drive in the base. But I personally don't think he lies. He does not have the psychological profile of a sociopath. He is married, has children and a regular job as an art teacher.

Critical point two, studying the mechanism the spring isn't loaded but pressured by the weight of the setup. So there is no winding up with a gradual release as far as I am concerned.

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2010, 04:52:56 PM »
@AnandAadhar,

Finsrud is an amazing man, undoubtedly -- very creative and very artistic. To see his superb work in the beautiful art gallery amidst a wheat field not far from Oslo is an experience in itself. So, visiting him is worth every bit of your time, I think. In addition, you may want to do some simple non-destructive experiments, especially involving timing, to verify there's no slowing down. I did some timing measurements with the videos I posted in Google video. There's a characteristic clack at every turn and I used WaveLab to compare the time between these clacks at the beginning and at the end of the vid. I didn't find a pronounced slowing down and there seemed to be even acceleration at certain moments. These studies are inconclusive, however, and Finsrud didn't answer my asking him to visit him again with the intention to do some more studies on the machine. The timing studies have to be done for an extended periods, longer than just the 45min in my videos, using an adequate measuring instrument, a data acquisition system, that can objectively record these clacks for further analysis. There are some other non-intrusive simple experiments that can be done to determine conclusively as to whether or not we're indeed dealing with a perpetuum mobile. Otherwise, I tend to agree with your understanding regarding the device being an efficient re-distributor as well as the winding issue. Unfortunately, that's just a hunch while we need hard evidence.

Offline Merg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 380
Re: Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2010, 06:34:29 PM »
You should move the discussion on Milkovic's oscillator to the main topic, so that others can follow every new progress in one place
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1763.1380

@AnandAadhar

you should read these two papers published by Milkovic team on attempts to mechanically close the loop

Mechanical Feedback Loop Problems and Possible Solutions for the Two-Stage Oscillator of Veljko Milkovic
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Mechanical_Feedback_Loop.pdf

Keys of Understanding Gravity Machines of Veljko Milkovic
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Key_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 07:34:30 PM by Merg »

 

OneLink