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Author Topic: Weightless Weight  (Read 12238 times)

Offline Lilhawk

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Re: Weightless Weight
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2009, 04:58:15 AM »
Sorry Hans...I don't have wm2d....so I do not know what you are seeing.

what I have learned through this is that 90 degrees gives the best transfer of a load through the string. If you go farther than 90 degrees
the load starts to be shared with pulley achor point  and out going string.


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Re: Weightless Weight
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2009, 04:58:15 AM »

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Weightless Weight
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2009, 05:09:37 AM »
Lilhawk,

The PM system here does not appear to work at the moment, send a message to hans@keelytech.com and I tell you what to do.

Hans

Offline ruggero

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REQUEST
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2009, 09:11:01 AM »
To all of you WM2D folks:

Please consider posting your animation as AVI, QUICKTIME, SWF, MEDIAPLAYER etc. so that all of us (who would definately like to review and comment on these tests) can 'join the club' of contribution.
Usually it's a matter of export features in your software preferences.(!)

At least - if that's too difficult - post a JPG or screendump together with your wm2d.

Thanks a lot
ruggero

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REQUEST
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2009, 09:11:01 AM »
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Offline ruggero

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Re: Weightless Weight
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2009, 09:32:39 AM »
Lilhawk...

I like drawings just like you... ;)

If you are working in Illustrator and Flash, we could exchange raw-files and spare some time re-drawing the same thing?

Alexioco:
Thanks for your feedback on my design idea.

Is it possible that you can try build the 'circle' (i.e. rope/line guide) into your model?
I mean: You allready exposed a very talented craftmanship for model building.

Look at my latest drawing below.
If Alexioco's is right about balancing and can make a small weight do the moving (and lifting), the 'circle' design will actually lift the weight almost 1.25 times the diameter distance all the way to the top 12:00.
The small weight falling only 120 degree (or 1/3 turn).

All I can do, is making a Flash animation....

regards
ruggero  ;)

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Weightless Weight
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2009, 09:38:19 AM »
I appreciate your concerns ruggero but this is not as simple as it sounds. The rendering engine of WM2D is atrocious and only supports simple models. More complex models are rendered in such a fashion as to make it almost impossible to see what is going on.

Furthermore there is a restriction on file size. AVI files, even of simple models are large, in fact too large to be uploaded here. A WM2D file (the bare bones file that is) takes very little space since it only contains the start up conditions and a few formulae. The AVI files have to render every frame.

I wish I could see a good way of doing this but at the moment I can"t. Any useful suggestions are welcome.

Hans von Lieven

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Re: Weightless Weight
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2009, 09:38:19 AM »
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Offline ruggero

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Re: Weightless Weight
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2009, 10:33:41 AM »
The rendering engine of WM2D is atrocious and only supports simple models. More complex models are rendered in such a fashion as to make it almost impossible to see what is going on.

Well well well....I don't say you are wrong, but the wm2d company website tell otherwise.

A lot of very complicated and heavy designs find its way to YouTube in other formats than AVI - some of them are even available in this forum.
How they achieve this I don't know.

ruggero  ;)



turbo

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Re: Weightless Weight
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2009, 11:07:56 AM »

I wish I could see a good way of doing this but at the moment I can"t. Any useful suggestions are welcome.

Hans von Lieven

Hello Hans,

You can convert the .AVI to animated GIF and you can also reduce it's size.
This cut's down filesize dramatically by reducing the color palette to less colors without making the picture too bad when it does not involve millions of colors to start with.

Marco.

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Re: Weightless Weight
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2009, 11:07:56 AM »
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Offline Lilhawk

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Re: Weightless Weight
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2009, 11:11:18 AM »
hello  Ruggero....

I see a couple of things problematic with your last drawing...I'll only point out the big one   ;)

Offline ruggero

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Re: Weightless Weight
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2009, 11:53:46 AM »
hello  Ruggero....

I see a couple of things problematic with your last drawing...I'll only point out the big one   ;)

If these are the 'big' concerns...I think it'll have a good chance working ;)

But to meet your arguments:

First of all this is a drawing of the principle.
Second, the topmost point on the drawing is really not at 12:00 but a little to the left of the center-line: This makes the angle to the buttom exchange point less than 90 degree.
Third, put a small weight on the left lever arm (at 11:59) and it will start moving down...as any overbalanced leverarms.

I have made a small build(se drawing below) of a circle with a string/rope mounted on the weight (A) at 12:00 (exactly noon) - the string going down to and turn 180 around the axle, goes up to and around a pulley and then drops to a hanging weight (B).
The weight (B) is half the weight of weight (A).

Okay – let go and let the weight (A) fall.
You will notice that the wheel turns over 360 dgr...and offcourse keeps running another 210-225 dgr.

ruggero  ;)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 01:05:37 PM by ruggero »

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Re: Weightless Weight
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2009, 11:53:46 AM »
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Offline ruggero

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Re: Weightless Weight
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2009, 01:41:30 PM »
Now – the funny part of this lever 'trick' is the way that the small weight (B) seems to gain some of the momentum from the big weight's (A) falling...like, for a short moment eliminating or releasing the tension between the two weights.

It must be like that, because...if you make a start set up with the big weight (A) at 06:00, there is no way the wheel could possible start moving.

What I see, is an acceleration of the big weight (A) that is actually faster than the (beginning) free fall of the small weight (B): It's like dropping the small weight without a string mounted to it.

ruggero  ;)

Offline gurangax

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Re: Weightless Weight
« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2009, 04:05:41 PM »
Nice since everyone here is interested working with pulleys configuration, I will also post my find later I found it to be very interesting because I think this one is never taught at school.

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Re: Weightless Weight
« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2009, 04:05:41 PM »
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Offline Alexioco

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Re: Weightless Weight
« Reply #41 on: May 03, 2009, 04:44:34 PM »
The footage is too big to fit on here, so you will just have to take my word for it.......

I tried a little test, if the bottom pulley is not far enough down, then it is not as effective, this is I think why you are getting negative results, but what mine does is, when the seesaw is straight, it balances and you can even face the seesaw down just slightly and it still balances, when you push down on the other side of the lever, it lifts the weight up slowly but easlily, and it doesnt go down at any point unless you push it down.... If there is anyone with doubts to my claims then I'm afraid its tuff luck to put it bluntly.... There is alot to learn from this device for those who are willing to learn... the position of the string and the length  of the string on either side determine how much more power there is one side than the other etc etc... I will leave this with you to speculate at :D

Alex

Offline overtaker

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Re: Weightless Weight
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2009, 05:09:09 PM »
Alex,   In your test,  what was the connection at the  " t " ?

Is it a bearing?  If you are using small weights and there is

lots of friction at the lever connection than that will throw

off the results!  For this kind of test that connection needs

to be nearly friction free.  imho   :)

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Weightless Weight
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2009, 05:24:12 PM »
Alex,   In your test,  what was the connection at the  " t " ?

Is it a bearing?  If you are using small weights and there is

lots of friction at the lever connection than that will throw

off the results!  For this kind of test that connection needs

to be nearly friction free.  imho   :)

Hi overtaker, the entire thing has harly much friction, the seesaw does not come in contact with the stand, do you want to give me your email address? we can disscuss it there, I have some things you might take a fancy too...

Alex

Offline Lilhawk

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Re: Weightless Weight
« Reply #44 on: May 03, 2009, 09:08:45 PM »
Alex...sorry to hear your having problems with getting the file/pic/vid  posted

if you don't mind I be interested in those figures I mentioned about earlier

when I did my tests I just pulled on the load string.  When you have a balance the load weight will not matter.
 

 

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