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## Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: Yortuk Festrunk on April 28, 2009, 01:02:36 AM

Title: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: Yortuk Festrunk on April 28, 2009, 01:02:36 AM
Here is finally a solution to make a working gravity system that clearly violates NO LAWS of physics.

It is very self explanatory.

This picture is not to any certain scale. It is only to illustrate the general principle.

Pairs of rollers RELAY a weight from bottom to top. Each roller has a weight on the outside which acts to turn the roller to push the main weight up.

The now top heavy wheel turns 180Â° and the process starts all over again.

The biggest challenge to building this system will be synchronizing the rollers to lock and unlock in certain positions during the cycle.

I call this the RECIPROCAL TORQUE RELAY SYSTEM.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: overtaker on April 28, 2009, 01:20:10 AM
I see some thought went into this.  Two red weights would have to weigh considerably more than the black weight.  The black weight could trigger the catch mechanism.  I see problems with this system though.  The wheel wouldn't stop at 180deg. until it stopped swinging.  I need to study this more.
Nice thinking out of the box.  :)
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: overtaker on April 28, 2009, 01:25:34 AM
Another issue is the black weight would have to be longer so it would always connect to two sets of weights or one set of red weights would have to weigh considerably more then the black weight.
I see this as locking up.  Hopefully not.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: AB Hammer on April 28, 2009, 02:38:36 AM
Here is finally a solution to make a working gravity system that clearly violates NO LAWS of physics.

It is very self explanatory.

This picture is not to any certain scale. It is only to illustrate the general principle.

Pairs of rollers RELAY a weight from bottom to top. Each roller has a weight on the outside which acts to turn the roller to push the main weight up.

The now top heavy wheel turns 180Â° and the process starts all over again.

The biggest challenge to building this system will be synchronizing the rollers to lock and unlock in certain positions during the cycle.

I call this the RECIPROCAL TORQUE RELAY SYSTEM.

Interesting approach.

I do have some concerns about the approach. Will the smaller weights be able to lift the beam up? I have tried several things to do just this approach and have found many factors you have to overcome.
Just as a pendulum, it increases its weight value at the bottom of the wheel. Then it has to lift against that factor which need even more counter weight value to do so.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: Yortuk Festrunk on April 28, 2009, 03:12:31 AM
I see some thought went into this.  Two red weights would have to weigh considerably more than the black weight.  The black weight could trigger the catch mechanism.  I see problems with this system though.  The wheel wouldn't stop at 180deg. until it stopped swinging.  I need to study this more.
Nice thinking out of the box.

Another issue is the black weight would have to be longer so it would always connect to two sets of weights or one set of red weights would have to weigh considerably more then the black weight.
I see this as locking up.  Hopefully not.

First of all, there is no "swinging" in this. It turns 180Â° and stops.
Secondly, I said this is not to scale. so the length of the weight in the picture is not a factor.
Thirdly, there is nothing in this set up to "lock up".

I'm sure that mechanical engineers are more likely to appreciate this design for it is easier for them to grasp the nuances of this setup.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: Yortuk Festrunk on April 28, 2009, 03:18:52 AM
Interesting approach.

I do have some concerns about the approach. Will the smaller weights be able to lift the beam up? I have tried several things to do just this approach and have found many factors you have to overcome.
Just as a pendulum, it increases its weight value at the bottom of the wheel. Then it has to lift against that factor which need even more counter weight value to do so.

I don't think you ever tried this exact setup before because this is a totally new design.

It has nothing to do with the way a pendulum works.

It stops, the weight goes to the top, then it turns 180Â° and stops again, and so on. No pendulum action involved.

As I stated above, this drawing is not to any scale. The size of an object doesn't necessarily indicate its weight.

Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: AB Hammer on April 28, 2009, 03:32:52 AM
Yortuk Festrunk

A single weight design to slide up role over and up again. On each disk with a weight will only move it so far and that is it. Also all wheel devices with weight are in a form a pendulum. In the wheel it is call a circular pendulum. All weights going down to the outer edge will have a weight increase effect. These are constants to understand in a wheel when designing. To lift the needed weight for reset requires enough weight to over come the pendulum effect as well.

I am not saying it will not work but, you need to know what to overcome if it is to work.

Good luck.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: overtaker on April 28, 2009, 03:48:12 AM
I do appreciate the design!    Do you have an idea the weight ratio between the red weights and the black ones?   Would gears have less friction then rollers?
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: Yortuk Festrunk on April 28, 2009, 04:59:48 AM
Yortuk Festrunk

A single weight design to slide up role over and up again. On each disk with a weight will only move it so far and that is it. Also all wheel devices with weight are in a form a pendulum. In the wheel it is call a circular pendulum. All weights going down to the outer edge will have a weight increase effect. These are constants to understand in a wheel when designing. To lift the needed weight for reset requires enough weight to over come the pendulum effect as well.

I am not saying it will not work but, you need to know what to overcome if it is to work.

Good luck.

I see some similarity, but there are two very important differences:

1. Your wheel has to overcome centrifugal force, which I think is what you were referring to when you compare to a pendulum. My design has the wheel come to a complete stop before the weight rises again. Centrifugal force is then not a factor.

2. Your wheel has the weight attached directly to the mechanism, which makes it very difficult to get it to work. My design has the main weight "floating" within the system. It is not directly attached. This way, it can completely separate itself from the opposite side of the wheel.

These two factors can lead you to make a working wheel.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: Yortuk Festrunk on April 28, 2009, 05:05:16 AM
I do appreciate the design!    Do you have an idea the weight ratio between the red weights and the black ones?   Would gears have less friction then rollers?

I'm glad you appreciate the design and that you are thinking of different ways to make it work.

The counter-weights only need to be heavy enough to lift the weight straight up.

Gears may work just fine as long as it is weighted properly.

Take that picture as only a general guide. The sizes of the rollers and the length of the main weight can be different from the picture.

Remember, the key to this setup is to RELAY the weight from one part of the wheel to another.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: AB Hammer on April 28, 2009, 02:48:44 PM
Yortuk Festrunk

I have had several designs that would stop momentary or near stop for an action. One was for a clock motor. I have also used spinning weights but not with gears like yours seem to be. I will be curious on how your build goes. My personal goal is to keep it spinning to get use out of the speed and kinetic effect. So when do you plan on building it?
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: Cherryman on April 28, 2009, 02:58:46 PM
I like the design..

Just wondering.. it looks like it would stop in absolute balance (Dead point) when the black weight is in top position?  Why would it roll to clockwise?  Or vice versa?
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: ramset on April 28, 2009, 03:00:35 PM
Yortuk Festrunk

Beautiful!!

I'd like to "play" in this box

MUCH TO SEE HERE!!

Thank you for sharing your idea open source

Chet
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: Yortuk Festrunk on April 28, 2009, 08:24:49 PM
I like the design..

Just wondering.. it looks like it would stop in absolute balance (Dead point) when the black weight is in top position?  Why would it roll to clockwise?  Or vice versa?

That is a good thing for you to point out.

Actually, the picture shows a perfect vertical orientation. That is not necessary, in fact may be detrimental, for the operation of this system.

Instead of going from 6:00 to 12:00, it would have to go from slightly left of 6:00 to slightly right of 12:00.

This would place the weight at a starting point slightly to one side to ensure the wheel does not balance itself.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: noonespecial on April 29, 2009, 04:24:37 PM
One potential solution would be to have the black weight segmented such that when it passed the upper rollers the hinged segment would 'flop' to one side. The direction could be influenced by a small counterweight or spring. A complimentary hinged segment would be at the opposite end for the next rotation.

Regards,
Charlie
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: ruggero on May 02, 2009, 09:30:34 PM
another solution is to let the whole set up flip on a horizontal axis.

yeah - maybe even start the rotation when the weight is lifted just over halfway up...?

ruggero  ;-)
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: noonespecial on May 03, 2009, 05:18:12 PM
Hi Ruggero,

I like the way you think! :) In fact, this could make it into a runner easier than the original design.
Too bad your response got lost at the end of this thread. You should repost it on the other one.

Regards,
Charlie
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: ruggero on May 03, 2009, 06:20:17 PM
Hi Charlie,

Edit: OK, found it...
ruggero  ;)
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: Flyboy on May 08, 2009, 08:51:21 AM
I hope I'm wrong but I am figuring that the center of mass remains constant in this model.  Given the assumptions I used (sizes, amount, travel,  etc...) the short traveling weights (which are heavier) have an equal effect on the center of balance as the main weight with lots of travel... I'm really hoping someone will prove me wrong.  Reguardless, brilliant and simple design!  I love it!!!!
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: Ken the Great on January 15, 2010, 06:13:53 AM
This design will not work.

It is obvious that the length of travel in the center weight is more than the circumference of the smaller diameter discs with the weights attached.

Also what stops the discs with the weights from turning when not in contact with the center weight?

What happens to the energy wasted when the weight hits the end of its travel?

I see no way this design can work.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: mr_bojangles on January 16, 2010, 04:46:51 AM
i have tried this before,

the reason it will not work is because the weight of those "rollers" have to be a slightly greater than the weight of the center weight

if you look, it would be the weight of one set of rollers versus two sets of rollers

that would mean one set of rollers plus the center weight, versus the weight of two rollers, and if the rollers are slightly heavier, that would mean it would still be bottom heavy

@ken, the circumference could be figured out to work but the weight ratio would screw it up
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: GraViTaR on April 14, 2010, 03:26:28 AM
WOW! This is AWESOME!

I made a sim with some modifications on WM and IT WORKS!

I tilted the whole system so it starts at roughly a one o'clock/seven o'clock orientation and I used gear reduction to increase the lifting power of the rollers and it raises the center weight with NO PROBLEM!

I am trying to set up a locking and unlocking mechanism to complete the machine to run continuously.

This could generate electricity with simple gravity power, instead of those big, ugly windmills that are all over the countryside.

I've included a screen shot that shows what I'm talking about.

I wish the pea-brains around here would actually do a little creative thinking before knocking things they don't understand.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on April 14, 2010, 04:50:32 AM
Here is finally a solution to make a working gravity system that clearly violates NO LAWS of physics.

It is very self explanatory.

This picture is not to any certain scale. It is only to illustrate the general principle.

Pairs of rollers RELAY a weight from bottom to top. Each roller has a weight on the outside which acts to turn the roller to push the main weight up.

The now top heavy wheel turns 180Â° and the process starts all over again.

The biggest challenge to building this system will be synchronizing the rollers to lock and unlock in certain positions during the cycle.

I call this the RECIPROCAL TORQUE RELAY SYSTEM.

If you lift a 1 pound weight 1 meter off the ground equaling 1 newton of force then you will only get 1 newton of force if the object is released into free fall.

gravity only stores kinetic energy. what you put in is what you get out.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: hartiberlin on April 14, 2010, 05:36:43 AM
WOW! This is AWESOME!

I made a sim with some modifications on WM and IT WORKS!

I tilted the whole system so it starts at roughly a one o'clock/seven o'clock orientation and I used gear reduction to increase the lifting power of the rollers and it raises the center weight with NO PROBLEM!

I am trying to set up a locking and unlocking mechanism to complete the machine to run continuously.

This could generate electricity with simple gravity power, instead of those big, ugly windmills that are all over the countryside.

I've included a screen shot that shows what I'm talking about.

I wish the pea-brains around here would actually do a little creative thinking before knocking things they don't understand.

Hmm,
how should this work ?
Could you please explain it some more and post your WM2D file ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: mr_bojangles on April 16, 2010, 04:59:50 AM
i said this earlier,

each set of counterweights needs to be slightly heavier than the weight of the middle sliding weight

this means on each side you have (2) * (x) on each side, x= slightly (>) weight of sliding weight (number 5)

so once the sliding weight reaches the top, it now how to fight slightly more than twice the weight (3 and 4) of (5)

this also means weight set 2 is almost completely neutralized since it is so close to the axis

following this, weight set (3 and 4) are extended half the distance of the wheel (3) and the full distance (4)

because weight (5) is so long, the point of balance will be at the center, which would almost make it balance out 3 and 4, but because it is slightly less heavy, it will continue to be bottom heavy

weight set 1 will be outweighed by set 3, 2 will neutralize itself, and 4 will out weigh 5, because if it didn't, weight 5 would have no vertical movement to begin with

therefore, you can make weight 5 have vertical movement, but it will be top heavy if 5 weighs less

if 5 weighs the same as the rollers, it will be balanced and no vertical movement will occur

if 5 weighs more than the rollers, it will have no vertical movement and will become bottom heavy

Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: GraViTaR on April 17, 2010, 12:20:10 AM
Hmm,
how should this work ?
Could you please explain it some more and post your WM2D file ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

I've almost got it complete. I will let you know when it's done, Harti, then send you the file.

This is awesome! Free energy is here!
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: Robotan on April 17, 2010, 01:57:00 AM
This is still just a pendulum. No matter how complex you make the mechanics, its still just a "pendulum". You will have an oscillating system which will eventually come to rest, due to energy being dissipated as heat in all the joints of the wheels/lifters.

This setup is, energy-wise, no different from a piece of string with a weight attached at the end, and set to swing like a pendulum.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: GraViTaR on April 17, 2010, 02:23:09 AM
YES! I GOT IT TO WORK IN A COMPLETE CYCLE!!

Harti, PM me so I can contact you directly.

This is it! We've got it!
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: AB Hammer on April 17, 2010, 03:00:27 AM
YES! I GOT IT TO WORK IN A COMPLETE CYCLE!!

Harti, PM me so I can contact you directly.

This is it! We've got it!

GraViTaR

There have bee several of us who have wheels that run for awhile. Before you get to excited, see if it accelerates and then maintains speed after that, before you make the claim.

Alan
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: GraViTaR on April 17, 2010, 03:26:08 AM
GraViTaR

There have bee several of us who have wheels that run for awhile. Before you get to excited, see if it accelerates and then maintains speed after that, before you make the claim.

Alan

WTF? Does anyone on these forums know how to read? Wtf does acceleration have to with this wheel? Oh, if you actually READ this thread, you'd already know the answer.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: AB Hammer on April 17, 2010, 04:55:57 AM
WTF? Does anyone on these forums know how to read? Wtf does acceleration have to with this wheel? Oh, if you actually READ this thread, you'd already know the answer.

GraViTaR

Even if it spins 1/2 the way and stops and makes the shift. It will do it a little faster each time until it reaches its maximum speed to shift which will be an acceleration. If it doesn't do this you will have to do a time test. But if it does, it is a sign of a proper runner possibility. We sometimes come from different views so people may explain things differently, it doesn't mean we didn't read it, but we often look at things differently as well.

Alan

Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: GraViTaR on April 17, 2010, 05:39:54 AM
GraViTaR

Even if it spins 1/2 the way and stops and makes the shift. It will do it a little faster each time until it reaches its maximum speed to shift which will be an acceleration. If it doesn't do this you will have to do a time test. But if it does, it is a sign of a proper runner possibility. We sometimes come from different views so people may explain things differently, it doesn't mean we didn't read it, but we often look at things differently as well.

Alan

Why would it "do it a little faster each time"? It is not supposed to go "faster each time". It turns slowly, the same speed every half rotation, stops, then the weight returns to the top, trips the release, and turns half a rotation. STOPS, then the weight returns to the top, trips the release, turns half a rotation. STOPS!!!!, then the weight returns to the top, ad infinitum.

Are you one of those speed freaks that thinks something needs to go fast to be effective?
Well if you are, then you will never make a working wheel because speed creates centrifugal force which is exactly what you DON'T want.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: Cloxxki on April 17, 2010, 08:37:42 AM
As there is no fluent movement, and axis shift in this design, it's closer to a self-powered clock, it seems.
As the rollers/lifters start/stop, they'll need to do this every time, the same way. If they indeed manage to do the lift with positive center of mass shift, where a flip or turn of the wheel resets the whole system, hey, it's a perpetuum mobile. Nicest would be with a it of a load on it, so we are not getting into the frictionless bearings, vacuum environment deal.

As usual, I hope it works, but until then I fear the COM is not positively shifted.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: Robotan on April 17, 2010, 10:41:19 AM
Make it run and see how long it runs. I bet you it will stop eventually  ;) This is simple pendulum mechanics. instead of a standard pendulum with a weight swinging from side to side, you made one with a weight oscillating up and down.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: GraViTaR on April 17, 2010, 07:16:03 PM
Make it run and see how long it runs. I bet you it will stop eventually  ;) This is simple pendulum mechanics. instead of a standard pendulum with a weight swinging from side to side, you made one with a weight oscillating up and down.

You are clearly one of the pea-brains who does not know how to read or comprehend.

Pendulum? There is nothing in this like a pendulum. I'm sure the pea-brain club is glad to have you.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: Robotan on April 18, 2010, 02:39:45 AM
haha! brilliant answer :) just shows you know nothing about what you are actually building. Try reading up on pendulum mechanics and oscillating systems, and you will see what I mean.

What you have is a mass oscillating between two states (top and bottom) under the influence of gravity. hence the "pendulum" effect. Eventually the motion will die out due to friction.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: mr_bojangles on April 18, 2010, 06:18:32 AM
....not to mention having a working model in wmd means it will work in real life............................
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: Low-Q on April 18, 2010, 09:28:54 PM
Why would it "do it a little faster each time"? It is not supposed to go "faster each time". It turns slowly, the same speed every half rotation, stops, then the weight returns to the top, trips the release, and turns half a rotation. STOPS, then the weight returns to the top, trips the release, turns half a rotation. STOPS!!!!, then the weight returns to the top, ad infinitum.

Are you one of those speed freaks that thinks something needs to go fast to be effective?
Well if you are, then you will never make a working wheel because speed creates centrifugal force which is exactly what you DON'T want.
Centrifugal forces is also present on slow wheels, however much lower than a fast spinning wheel. But in return, a slow wheel isn't producing much. It is possible to beat the centrifugal forces at higher speeds, by using mechanical tension on the rotating parts that counterforce the centrifugal force.

Vidar
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: noonespecial on April 19, 2010, 05:19:51 PM
I've been working on a design based on this idea for the past 6 months or so and should have a video ready within the next couple of weeks.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: guruji on April 19, 2010, 10:58:33 PM
Hi ABhammer I saw your video it's very good and it seems to work. It looks like I once designed in the past with an off center in the middle.
I'm not claiming anything here but best regards for that it seems to work.
Thanks for the vid.
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: AB Hammer on April 20, 2010, 12:59:58 AM
Hi ABhammer I saw your video it's very good and it seems to work. It looks like I once designed in the past with an off center in the middle.
I'm not claiming anything here but best regards for that it seems to work.
Thanks for the vid.

Thanks guruji

But it didn't run. Even though the shifting worked it like so many designs it had to fight against to much weight below the 3 to 9 mark. The slide weight unit is a solid unit and what makes the slide work is what is important. And work not to create to much of a problem is the trick with this design. I have two newer shifting device designs to try and we will see. But this is a side project design I work with, for I have others as well.

Alan
Title: Re: AMAZING New Gravity Wheel Design!
Post by: FreeEnergy on April 21, 2010, 01:57:15 PM
@GraViTaR