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Author Topic: The only thing holding back EV's (not technology)  (Read 20897 times)

Offline d3adp00l

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Re: The only thing holding back EV's (not technology)
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2009, 09:20:18 AM »
Nothing but US

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline g4macdad

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Re: The only thing holding back EV's (not technology)
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2009, 10:29:42 PM »
Nothing but US

EXACTLY! US waiting for someone else to sign the petition to change the laws.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/create-a-new-electric-vehicle-classification

Offline ewitte

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Re: The only thing holding back EV's (not technology)
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2009, 02:14:58 AM »
Its easy enough to modify a prius to get about 20 miles on a charge for now.  I have a hard time believing these EV limits.  How does the tesla get around it? 

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Re: The only thing holding back EV's (not technology)
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2009, 02:14:58 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The only thing holding back EV's (not technology)
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2009, 07:10:52 AM »
http://www.evporsche.com/
These guys do some great conversions. Not far from me in West Palm Beach.
If you scroll down the page they give a price on battery packs that get you 60 to 200 miles per charge. It may cost, but a manufacturer gets huge quantity pricing and they use a/c ind. motors and controls which are more efficient than dc motors and controls. Dc is cheaper for build it your self.
Also you can look at alibaba.com for Chinese battery sources for pretty good pricing.
I Have an '85 Fiero gt that is cored out for conversion. Have not made solid decisions on equipment to use yet.
Magluvin

Offline d3adp00l

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Re: The only thing holding back EV's (not technology)
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2009, 08:18:18 AM »
ya because most of us can afford 60k. again, I say its us keeping electriccars from being out there. By us I mean the general persons greed.


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Re: The only thing holding back EV's (not technology)
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2009, 08:18:18 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The only thing holding back EV's (not technology)
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2009, 08:32:04 AM »
Well Im not looking to build one to go 200 mpc at first. If I spend $50 a week in gas at $3 a gal to go to work, an electric conv. would save me about $2000 a year. These days thats not chump change. I can conv. my fiero to do 50-60 mpc for under $10000 and it will pay for itself in 5 years. How long and how much will it take to pay off that Prius? And then still buying gas for it when it just may be $5 or more a gal. And who knows, One of these guys/gals here at OU just may come up with a way to charge our cars for free. Maybe.  =]
Magluvin

Offline d3adp00l

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Re: The only thing holding back EV's (not technology)
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2009, 08:43:31 AM »
sorry but you'll have to buy more batteries before that 5 years, and you need to calc the cost of electricity.

They have done all this math, and they do not want it working out in our benefit.

when someone comes up with a new produce whats the first question they want to answer? Its not how much did it cost to make, its how much will this save people over its life, and how much can I get of that from them .

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The only thing holding back EV's (not technology)
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2009, 08:43:31 AM »
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Offline d3adp00l

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Re: The only thing holding back EV's (not technology)
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2009, 09:03:11 AM »
200 lbs electric motor

100 lbs cu x 3.00 = 300.00
100 lbs steel x .55 = 55.00

sub total               355.00
manufacturing        355.00
sub total               810.00
profit and over head 350.00

total reasonable motor price    1160.00

this is on a manufacturing scale, not a 1 off custom build.

the same motor using aluminum could be

50 lbs of al         x 1.9 = 95.00
100 lbs of steel           = 55.00
                                  150.00

900.00 for a motor on a production scale.

until someone is willing to do that, there isn't much hope.

batteries lead acid - .95 per lbs x 800lbs = 760.00
                                          760.00 x 2 = 1520
                                           2100.00 total price.

actual price for batteries of equal power = 3500.00

Its this simple. If I make something for 100 bucks, and sell it to a distributor that sells it for 150.00 who sells it to a wholesaler, who sells it for 225.00 who sell it to a resaler who sells it for 335.00 so what am I really getting for my money? SCREWED
 

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The only thing holding back EV's (not technology)
« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2009, 09:52:53 AM »
Well I dont know where you get your info but the electric motor is way more efficient than a gas engine, of which the gas engine is at best 30%, STILL.
And if your getting your batteries from Walmart then you may be changing your batteries a few times before 5 years are up.  But at $25 a pop, maybe they are not so bad.  But Im going for 8 yr bat life, and that is ave. depending on how they are taken care of. Some have gotten over 100,000 mi. on a set of NIMH and still goin.
Not many people realize how much they spend on gas for the year.
Are you the only super skeptic on EV's here?
Is there anyone that is for them?

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The only thing holding back EV's (not technology)
« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2009, 09:52:53 AM »
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Offline ewitte

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Re: The only thing holding back EV's (not technology)
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2009, 01:33:23 PM »
It costs either $2k or $4k to upgrade a PRIUS with LiFe-P04 and it does not even look that hard to do.  Currently studying my vue greenline for upgrades starting in 2-3 years.

4kw = 20 miles = (for me) $0.54
1/3 gallon (60mpg) @ $2.15 = $0.71

So there is a slight savings.  However thats at pretty low gas prices.  At $4 per gal 1/3 gallon costs $1.33.  Unlress you keep recharging throughout the day while at work thats about $5/mo or $23.70/mo @ $4 per gallon.  It will take 14 years even at $4/gal to pay back the $4000 cost of installing the batteries.  Although a true electric vehicle will have 800+lbs of ICE related components removed and can probably go 30-40 miles off the same charge.  The Tesla is rated for $0.40 for the same distance but it also had a much greater battery bank that is a lot heavier.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 03:20:24 PM by ewitte »

Offline electricme

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Re: The only thing holding back EV's (not technology)
« Reply #40 on: October 23, 2009, 02:21:05 PM »
Hi guys, I hope I not too way off the thread.

Ha ha, I have to laugh, the fuel companies just love it when we all verball off to each other, their promotion industry is still going strong, and most people really haven't caught on to the following fact.

Fact is, they get all cars to be built so the tank holds enough petrol to travel for about 6-7 hundred kilometers, and so the family car has to be refuelled once a week.
Soooo people have been conditioned over the years that electric vehicles need a battery capacity to hold the equivalent in kilometers.

This is a lot of hooey. Wake up everyone, take another look see.

People have also been conditioned that a vehicle just has to have an acceleration from 0 - 100kph in certain seconds, the electric car can do this, its just been suppressed, that's all, but once again, who wants to strain the engine and drive chain just to brag his vehicle is better than the others.......

Who really drives the charriot? the wife does, and where would she drive to, the local shop.
In most cases this is the local supermarket, generally about 10 ks away down the road, then knowing how careful my wife used to be in conserving where she drove, she would work out very carefully to make sure she would not double back (wasting petrol), so the weekly shopping trip would take about 50ks at the most.

Then there was the days the kiddies went to skool, another 10k around trip, then there is the little unforeseen trips to buy a loaf of bread or milk some emergency came up, or to visit a friend, all small trips, never getting above the speed limit.

One overnight recharge would top off each of the daily trips around town, and it would be cheep at that, a lot more cheeeeeper than the weekly top up with gas, diesel or petrol.

We are led to believe we need a huge battery capacity for 700 klms, bah hooey

Lets consider the Diesel Electric locomotive, this thing has a whacking big diesel engine in it, its sole purpose is to drive a generator, that's it, nothing more. The engine runs at a constant rpm (most times), but the fact is, this generator is so powerful it can pull a train consisting of thousands of tons, a very long way indeed.

Soooo why did trains switch to diesel? why didn't they use the existing steam engine to drive a huge generator, just as a coal fired power station does? Driver comfort, less heat, not as much manual work to do and the fellas selling diesel said it is a good move to the gov.

So what am I getting at? electricity has more to it than petrol, but if we don't get on to making electric powered cars, then after the petrol runs out it will be too late, just get a horse and buggy.
There is a problem there tooo, how many horses will there be available? do you know the slightest thing in looking after a horse?

So what are councils and governments doing about this? nothing.
They have their hands in their pockets, they are asleep at the wheel, they will all say "we didn't know that this was going to happen" when petrol runs out, and it will, where will the food come from? the shops I hear you say, ha ha, but there is no fuel to run the trucks.

So no fuel equates to people starving because they can't go and buy food to feed themselves.
No fuel means the food will rot on the trees and in the paddocks, eventually, no fuel means no crops will be planted, this is a big can of worms.

No fuel means people cannot go to work, no work, no jobs, no jobs = no wages, no wages no food.
YOU DIE.
Because you die, you don't pay taxes, then the gov says, oops we made a mistake.
We should have had a backup system to keep the system flowing. Tooooolate.

There would be a big exoduses as people move out to the food bearing areas just so they could exist.
How many people make it out to the country, on shank es pony (walking), not many.

No modern country in the world has made any emergency plan to cope with no fuel.
In our country Australia, in Brisbane, we had trams, then the head honcho decided it would be a great idea to toss them out, so he did, once most people just hopped on a tram and got about, it was clean energy, a good safe way to travel, now we have the monster car problem.

If fuel dries up in Australia, all I see is big trouble, and bad at that, yep, bring back the electric car, truck, make all railways electric, double the tracks or bring back the old steam train.

Carbon credits, ha ha ha, what a lot of hooey, one volcano puts that theory to grief, oh if only people would wake up and get involved in free energy and read all the forums here.

jim



 

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Re: The only thing holding back EV's (not technology)
« Reply #40 on: October 23, 2009, 02:21:05 PM »
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Offline ewitte

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Re: The only thing holding back EV's (not technology)
« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2009, 03:30:05 PM »
While 700Km is not neccessary I can still easily drive 150 miles in a single work day. If I get sent to the ranch thats a 600 mile round trip.  With a 40mile EV range I would have to stop 15+ times!  My "mild hybrid" can get about 650-690 under perfect conditions (600 under good conditions).

Offline electricme

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Re: The only thing holding back EV's (not technology)
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2009, 09:54:33 AM »
@ ewitte
Excellent point you have below.

While 700Km is not neccessary I can still easily drive 150 miles in a single work day. If I get sent to the ranch thats a 600 mile round trip.  With a 40mile EV range I would have to stop 15+ times!  My "mild hybrid" can get about 650-690 under perfect conditions (600 under good conditions).

well what can I say? here is the answer we all are after, if you had posted this answer to Tesla, he would have just grinned at you and said, borrow my car, the one that runs on "nothing", I drove it around the countryside the other day, all day long, this is what you need.

Ha ha, that is a tongue in cheek answer, but until we get to that position, 50 klms is about what we are left with.

jim




 

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