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Author Topic: 193 Pages of history: Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum  (Read 5135 times)

Offline AquariuZ

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I am taking a break from Abeling and switching to Bessler. What better place to start than the document Bessler wrote about his device in October of 1719?

Not sure if this has been done before, but thanks to the Max Planck Institute I now have in my possession the full document scanned in high-resolution including the diagrams. (Really) 193 pages Cover to cover, no omissions or blackouts (yes!).

If this has not been archived here (not sure if it is allowed) I am asking Stefan for instructions.

Filesize is 245 MegaBytes, scans are 240 MB uncompressed.

Obviously my goal is to translate it myself , but even though I do speak German, I will require assistance from a professional german translator (dad) because medieval german is rather hard to read. Not that I mistrust the available translation(s), but the one I really trust is myself, and my dad comes in close second. Better believe it.  8)

Here the (compressed) introduction page to give you an idea. Beautiful. The diagrams are very clear, but at this point I am not sure if he made full disclosure. (Regardless what anyone says or has said about the Orffyreanum in the past)

If this has been done already by a reliable source, then please ignore I mentioned it and I will continue this offline. I am determined to see how far I can go.

Clean slate. New eyes. Thoughts? Experiences?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline spinner

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Re: 193 Pages of history: Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2009, 10:59:05 PM »
Quote
If this has been done already by a reliable source, then please ignore I mentioned it and I will continue this offline. I am determined to see how far I can go.

Hi, AquariuZ!

Hmm, before you start translating this mysterious work of JEEB - search for great works of Mr. John Collins...

www.free-energy.co.uk


Offline AquariuZ

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Re: 193 Pages of history: Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2009, 11:35:41 PM »
Hi, AquariuZ!

Hmm, before you start translating this mysterious work of JEEB - search for great works of Mr. John Collins...

www.free-energy.co.uk

Yep. Know about him.

I am naturally and specifically interested in possible clues left behind.

Most of it as far as I have read is self bloated speech & testimonies.

And money, always money. Even then. He was trying to sell it thus he had the wheel certified to get the needed vindication. Should have just revealed it on his death bed but he was probably extremely bitter he was not able to sell it. Greedy greedy

"The mechanism is so simply a nine year old carpenters apprentice could construct it"

Aha. So even I can do it...

Cylindrical weights, A spring , Outer and inner wheel...

O no, not dumbbells & eggs again  ;D

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 193 Pages of history: Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2009, 11:35:41 PM »
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Offline spinner

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Re: 193 Pages of history: Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2009, 02:18:48 AM »
Yep. Know about him.

I am naturally and specifically interested in possible clues left behind.

Most of it as far as I have read is self bloated speech & testimonies.

And money, always money. Even then. He was trying to sell it thus he had the wheel certified to get the needed vindication. Should have just revealed it on his death bed but he was probably extremely bitter he was not able to sell it. Greedy greedy
Yes, He supposedly left plenty of clues behind...
Sadly, he never had a chance to reveal the secret on his death bed (he actually died because of an accident caused by - gravity....)

Greed is an evil roth...

Quote
"The mechanism is so simply a nine year old carpenters apprentice could construct it"
I'm not sure about the "nine year old" (this is not a quote from original), but I'm certain that  if such a wheel would emerge nowadays, the average nine-year old child would understand the basic workings...

Quote
Aha. So even I can do it...

Cylindrical weights, A spring , Outer and inner wheel...

O no, not dumbbells & eggs again  ;D

Lol, no "dumbbells and eggs".... This is just one of the many (nonworking) gravity wheels. As simple as that.
At least from what is known so far, and especially after seeing the patent application ....  ;D

Ah, well...




Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: 193 Pages of history: Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2009, 03:10:17 AM »
Hi, AquariuZ!

Hmm, before you start translating this mysterious work of JEEB - search for great works of Mr. John Collins...

www.free-energy.co.uk

John Collins did not translate the book, he neither reads German nor Latin. He used outside resources to have the works translated. Without wanting to criticise John, who does outstanding work, the translations leave much to be desired in parts.

Furthermore Bessler's work is confusing in itself as, in passages, the German text does not say the same as the Latin text on the opposite page.

Hans von Lieven

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 193 Pages of history: Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2009, 03:10:17 AM »
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Offline mondrasek

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Re: 193 Pages of history: Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2009, 03:14:36 AM »
AquariuZ, I think this is a very nobel undertaking.  I wish you all the best.

 I also hope to learn something new from your translation!

Godspeed.

M.

Offline spinner

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Re: 193 Pages of history: Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2009, 03:45:29 AM »
John Collins did not translate the book, he neither reads German nor Latin. He used outside resources to have the works translated. Without wanting to criticise John, who does outstanding work, the translations leave much to be desired in parts.

Furthermore Bessler's work is confusing in itself as, in passages, the German text does not say the same as the Latin text on the opposite page.

Hans von Lieven

Yes, you're right about JC's "outside" resources... And about the precision of translations (I read your posts...). Anyway, Bessler did a great job in "encoding"  his secrets. ;D
They're still an enigma..... No matter how good translational skills someone has...


As for the German/Latin text, I think even Mr. Bessler had to find an "outside resources" to translate his texts to Latin...

Cheers!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 193 Pages of history: Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2009, 03:45:29 AM »
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Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: 193 Pages of history: Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2009, 04:51:25 AM »
Incorrect Spinner, Bessler was fluent in Latin, his mentor Christian Weise saw to that.

Hans von Lieven

EDIT: When I say fluent in Latin, I mean of course the Latin in common use during Bessler's time, which leaves much to be desired as far as purity of language is concerned.

Offline AquariuZ

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Re: 193 Pages of history: Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2009, 04:59:42 AM »
the German text does not say the same as the Latin text on the opposite page.

Hans von Lieven

It appears that in certain sections the Latin addresses a more scientific audience...
It will be interesting to see what (clue?) comes out of the Latin section

My Latin is way too rusty, Google is way too unreliable, but I have sent word for assistance.

Dad has a headache already

The German text seems nothing but shameless promotion, an early marketing brochure if you will.

Main focus will be on the rhyme and page markings and see if the Latin comes up with anything. Not sure why he would have left clues... I find the argument of him pre-empting a possible later inventor feeble.

About the diagrams, nothing spectacular and certainly nothing revealing. OK so got that confirmed. Still pretty but nothing more than that... If anyone is interested in the originals (close as) I can post some here.

Again, I know Stefan is offline, and if I post them I am not sure of the copyright status so they maybe removed later.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 193 Pages of history: Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2009, 04:59:42 AM »
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Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: 193 Pages of history: Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2009, 05:11:01 AM »
@ AquariuZ,

Bessler's drawings are public domain, you can find them in a lot of places.

As to the reliability of his accounts, well that is disputable.

Don't forget that during this time serious scholars were debating on how many angels might fit on the point of a needle. ( Richard Baxter "The Reasons of the Christian Religion" 1667 )

Hans von Lieven

Offline AquariuZ

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Re: 193 Pages of history: Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2009, 12:53:56 PM »
@ AquariuZ,

Bessler's drawings are public domain, you can find them in a lot of places.

Complete online here, scans from the Max Planck library copy

http://echo.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/ECHOdocuView/ECHOzogiLib?mode=imagepath&url=/mpiwg/online/permanent/library/XQVSQKR9/pageimg

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 193 Pages of history: Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2009, 12:53:56 PM »
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Offline persume

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Re: 193 Pages of history: Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2009, 08:32:51 PM »
@ AquariuZ,

Bessler's drawings are public domain, you can find them in a lot of places.

As to the reliability of his accounts, well that is disputable.

Don't forget that during this time serious scholars were debating on how many angels might fit on the point of a needle. ( Richard Baxter "The Reasons of the Christian Religion" 1667 )

Hans von Lieven

They've been doing that since the council of Nicea, from what I remember.

 

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