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Author Topic: Inside a "Home Electric Power KWH Meter" - US  (Read 19024 times)

fuzzytomcat

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Inside a "Home Electric Power KWH Meter" - US
« on: April 14, 2009, 08:47:18 AM »
Hi everyone,
In a earlier posting in a different thread http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6487.msg150967#msg150967 we were discussing the workings of a US home electric power KWH meter. I had several that were "customer owned" for private sub metering of a electrical service, a common practice. So I took one of the old 5 dial types ( 4 dial same thing just one more dial for larger KWH readings ) the metering device used for the past 50 years or longer apart, broke the seal removed some cotter pins and drilled out a couple of rivets and this is whats inside .....
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helmut

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Re: Inside a "Home Electric Power KWH Meter" - US
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2009, 09:34:50 AM »
Hi fuzz
You dismantel a meter.
Where is the circuit (sketch)?       What to learn out of it ?

Please read here the last postings too.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6487.msg151005#msg151005

helmut
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fuzzytomcat

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Re: Inside a "Home Electric Power KWH Meter" - US
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2009, 12:00:21 PM »
Quote from: helmut on April 14, 2009, 09:34:50 AM
Hi fuzz
You dismantel a meter.
Where is the circuit (sketch)?       What to learn out of it ?

Please read here the last postings too.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6487.msg151005#msg151005

helmut

Hi helmut,

Yep, I tore one of my meters apart, there about $60.00 US and there were three of them so one went to science. As far as a schematic I'm still trying to figure the inside metal cores out from the 240 volt coil core with the gray wires ( the cut coil wire is to the jumper on the meter back to turn off the meter ) and the amp ring core with the opposing wire bus configuration running through it. There are also four more rivets to remove but I want to make sure the mechanical gearing won't fall apart when I remove them, they can be seen in the last photo, two for the coil and two for the amp ring. As soon as I get into it further I will post a schematic, one thing I do know for sure is if you reverse the line and load or turn the KWH meter upside down in a meter base the KWH meter will run backwards and load balance importance.

The utility company's do lift voltages up from 220-240 nominal to at the highest 250 mostly it's about average 248 RMS volts but it lowers the amperage down.

Fuzzy  :)
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helmut

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Re: Inside a "Home Electric Power KWH Meter" - US
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2009, 01:44:21 PM »
Quote from: fuzzytomcat on April 14, 2009, 12:00:21 PM
Hi helmut,
........................................
.......................................

The utility company's do lift voltages up from 220-240 nominal to at the highest 250 mostly it's about average 248 RMS volts but it lowers the amperage down.

Fuzzy  :)

Hi Fuzzy
I confirm to you as far as possible.
But the last statement is false (in case of no misunderstanding)

As example we take a ordanary bulb in focus.
The resistor (filament) in a working condition does not change its value.
100W = P=U*I   I=P/U 100/110 =  0,909A  R=U/I = 121,01Ohm          US Voltage
100W = 100/240 = 0,416A   240/0,416 = 576,92 Ohm                       EU  Voltage

If you put a 100 W  Eu Bulb on a  US Grid  I = U/R than the Bulb will take 1,983A  and the filament will melt in a second.
What i want to tell you is, that on a ordenary resistor, there is no circuit, that corrects ( adjust) the resistor. As heaters , Bulbs and transformers.

helmut
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Lakes

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Re: Inside a "Home Electric Power KWH Meter" - US
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2009, 02:14:57 PM »
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fuzzytomcat

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Re: Inside a "Home Electric Power KWH Meter" - US
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2009, 02:33:01 AM »
Quote from: helmut on April 14, 2009, 01:44:21 PM
Hi Fuzzy
I confirm to you as far as possible.
But the last statement is false (in case of no misunderstanding)

As example we take a ordanary bulb in focus.
The resistor (filament) in a working condition does not change its value.
100W = P=U*I   I=P/U 100/110 =  0,909A  R=U/I = 121,01Ohm          US Voltage
100W = 100/240 = 0,416A   240/0,416 = 576,92 Ohm                       EU  Voltage

If you put a 100 W  Eu Bulb on a  US Grid  I = U/R than the Bulb will take 1,983A  and the filament will melt in a second.
What i want to tell you is, that on a ordenary resistor, there is no circuit, that corrects ( adjust) the resistor. As heaters , Bulbs and transformers.

helmut

Hi helmut,

I think were saying the same thing kinda .....  ;)

Given Knowns -

P = power (watts)
V = voltage
I = amps
R = resistance (ohms)

electrical object (1) one 100 watt lamp (resistive load) 220 volt ( no 220-240 volt incandescent lamps in USA "only" 120 volt )
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P '/. V = I

100watts '/, 220volts = .45 amps
100watts '/, 230volts = .43 amps
100watts '/, 240volts = .42 amps
100watts '/, 250volts = .40 amps

Voltage increases Amperage goes down
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

V '/. I = R

220volts '/, .45amps = 488.88 ohms (R)
230volts '/, .43amps = 534.88 ohms
240volts '/, .42amps = 571.42 ohms
250volts '/, .40amps = 625.00 ohms

Voltage increases Resistance increases
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are correct if a EU 100 watt incandescent lamp was used in a US 240 volt circuit it would work but have a short life span because of the  large voltage fluctuations

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

100watt '/, 120volt = .83 amps

120volts '/, .83amps = 144.58 ohms (R)

Using a EU 100 watt incandescent lamp on a US 120 volt circuit ...... wouldn't the lamp filament burn really "dim" and not burn out the lamp filament

Regards,
Fuzzy
 :)
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Pirate88179

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Re: Inside a "Home Electric Power KWH Meter" - US
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2009, 07:05:40 AM »
Fuzzy:

Thank you for your sacrifice for the sake of science.  I have always wondered what was inside one of these.  I did try a test of advice I read on the net and, for some reason, it appeared to actually work.  I held 2 strong neos alongside my meter lined up at the sides left and right at the largest circumference of the glass.  The meter slowed to about half the speed it was going.  I removed the magnets and it sped back up.  I have no idea what this worked this way, and I have no intention of stealing power (and I suggest no one else do it either) but have you ever heard of this?

I will cut my power expenses using earth batteries, joule thief circuits and Bedini motors.  I was just curious to see if you might know why this works?  PS these were very strong neos.  So strong, they stuck to the glass being attracted to something inside and I didn't even have to hold them.

Bill
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helmut

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Re: Inside a "Home Electric Power KWH Meter" - US
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2009, 09:47:29 AM »
Quote from: fuzzytomcat on April 15, 2009, 02:33:01 AM
Hi helmut,

I think were saying the same thing kinda .....  ;)

Given Knowns -

P = power (watts)
V = voltage
I = amps
R = resistance (ohms)

electrical object (1) one 100 watt lamp (resistive load) 220 volt ( no 220-240 volt incandescent lamps in USA "only" 120 volt )
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P '/. V = I

100watts '/, 220volts = .45 amps
100watts '/, 230volts = .43 amps
100watts '/, 240volts = .42 amps
100watts '/, 250volts = .40 amps

Voltage increases Amperage goes down
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

V '/. I = R

220volts '/, .45amps = 488.88 ohms (R)
230volts '/, .43amps = 534.88 ohms
240volts '/, .42amps = 571.42 ohms
250volts '/, .40amps = 625.00 ohms

Voltage increases Resistance increases
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are correct if a EU 100 watt incandescent lamp was used in a US 240 volt circuit it would work but have a short life span because of the  large voltage fluctuations

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

100watt '/, 120volt = .83 amps

120volts '/, .83amps = 144.58 ohms (R)

Using a EU 100 watt incandescent lamp on a US 120 volt circuit ...... wouldn't the lamp filament burn really "dim" and not burn out the lamp filament

Regards,
Fuzzy
 :)


Hi Fuzzy

Your calculation shows the conditions.
If one will save Money on the electric bill, one has to keep the Voltage down.
But halogen bulbs need standard voltage.

helmut
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BEP

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Re: Inside a "Home Electric Power KWH Meter" - US
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2009, 11:40:26 AM »
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 15, 2009, 07:05:40 AM
I held 2 strong neos alongside my meter lined up at the sides left and right at the largest circumference of the glass.  The meter slowed to about half the speed it was going.  I removed the magnets and it sped back up. 

The meter slowed because the added magnets created eddy currents in the moving aluminum disc. This created a braking action. The same is done with the magnet already in the meter. Without this existing magnet the disc would rotate at incredible speeds and not stop when you stopped using power.

Note how the 'current' loops pass through their core in different directions. If they didn't the fields they created would cancel and the disk would not move. As it is, they sum the current fields.

These old meters are a good example of how rotation can be done. The voltage and current fields are at 90 degrees to each other. This creates the third vector 'rotation' of the aluminum disc.

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