Author Topic: Are Tommey ReedÂ´s pulse motor circuits overunity ? (Read 160818 times)

chrisC · « **Reply #195 on:** April 28, 2009, 05:33:18 AM »

Quote from: bolt on April 28, 2009, 05:18:37 AM

....

Looping is an entire new problem due to impeadance matching networks are usually lossy and kill the last bit of OU. That is why easier to show i/p power to separate o/p. Not as simple as putting a wire from out to in.

Hi Bolt:
Thanks for the timely information. Any idea or reference on how best to close the loop seeing the apparent efficiency is high enough to allow further losses in order to successfully close the loop?

cheers
chrisC

bolt · « **Reply #196 on:** April 28, 2009, 06:11:19 AM »

To loop means as a Bearden expression "don't kill the dipole". In practice it usually means hi Q resonance output stage almost always hi impeadance needs transforming to low impeadance variable hi current battery load where battery at RF concept has many problems. Its a capacitor but its also reactive to high frequency plus has low DC internal resistance! Variables change as battery charges becomes a varactor. At best requires precision transformer ratios to match OU o/p to battery then looping requires low impedance to system impeadance matching. This sometimes requires converting DC back to AC through inverters.

Its a tough cookie but don't get strung up about looping. OU end to end is of far more benefit where solar, wind or low energy grid can be transformed to a hi energy low loss system.

Remember Tesla principles everything works in resonance and OU is only transformation of energy from one state to another.

wattsup · « **Reply #197 on:** April 28, 2009, 06:11:53 AM »

What if the output goes to a toroidal transformer primary that has two secondaries, send one back and use the other.

Earl · « **Reply #198 on:** April 28, 2009, 10:55:16 AM »

@Groundloop

In this case, the best impedance matcher would be a DC/DC converter.

Earl

Groundloop said:
I have modified my test circuit with a hexfet (IRF840) instead of a regular transistor (2N3055).
It seems that I can not loop the output directly back to the input because the internal resistance of the lead acid battery is so low that it is a short circuit for the captured back emf.

So if we want to do a full looped back test circuit then we will need a impedance match at the output and to the input.

hartiberlin · « **Reply #199 on:** April 28, 2009, 01:27:23 PM »

Quote from: Groundloop on April 28, 2009, 12:46:45 AM

Stefan,

He has a big capacitor bank in parallel with the batteries. He also have a big capacitor bank
at the output of his coil switch.

Quote: "it seems you have missed the principle behind it."

No I have not.

Attached is a drawing of TR's circuit. The power input is from his battery bank. The single
input capacitor in the drawing represent the input capacitor bank. The single mosfet represent his four paralleled mosfet transistors. The single output capacitor in the drawing represent the output capacitor bank. This drawing was displayed in one of his YouTube videos. Are you saying that this drawing is not correct?

Groundloop.

Groundloop,
I am sorry,
yes, you are right.
I mixed up something.

Yes, the current and not the voltage is the value, that is chopped,
and being averaged in his design.
But that is already measured by his ampmeter.
So yes, you were right. I am really sorry, that I mixed this up.

Tommey really needs to do current measurements on a shunt
or via lowpassfilter at the battery source, otherwise his meters
will not really show what is going on.

Regards, Stefan.

nievesoliveras · « **Reply #200 on:** April 28, 2009, 01:35:00 PM »

@all

Please. When you make a quote it is better understood if you surround the sentence like this:

Jesus

powercat · « **Reply #201 on:** April 28, 2009, 02:01:28 PM »

@all
communication with Tommey

1 he only answer some questions on YouTube
2 he has stated that he is not interested in joining this Forum
3 did anyone try ringing him on the number posted on YouTube and here ?

We can only hope that he has come up with a new way of feeding back to source,
as this problem has been highlighted here and in the past many times

cat

Groundloop · « **Reply #202 on:** April 28, 2009, 03:19:01 PM »

@Bolt,

What will give me the highest Q factor for as coil. Is it a thick wire big air core coil or
a more compact Ferrite core coil?

@Earl,

If we skip the output capacitor bank then there is a possibility to use pulsed DC to a Ferrite impedance
matched transformer. (The output capacitor bank will then be after a diode bridge on the transformer.)
Still thinking about this.................

Stefan,

I agree. He could also put a low resistance precision shunt in series with the battery positive and just measure
the voltage over that shunt. A good old moving Iron ampere meter will also give a fairly accurate reading.

@Powercat,

If this circuit is o/u (and it seems that it is) then we can connect several identical circuits is series because
the input of the circuit is relative high impedance. At the last circuit we dump into capacitor bank and drive
a combination electric motor / generator. Another method is to tap just enough power at the output capacitor bank
so that we do not load the circuit too much. This can be done by transistor switching at the output.

I do not think it is a big problem that TR is not talking to us. He has posted all information needed in his videos and
it is easy to make good drawings based on the information in the videos. My personal goal is to try to make a looped
one battery only switch. No measurements is necessary in such a solution. If the battery charge up then bring out
the champagne.

Regards,
Groundloop.

powercat · « **Reply #203 on:** April 28, 2009, 04:35:33 PM »

Quote from: Groundloop on April 28, 2009, 03:19:01 PM

@Powercat,

If this circuit is o/u (and it seems that it is) then we can connect several identical circuits is series because
the input of the circuit is relative high impedance. At the last circuit we dump into capacitor bank and drive
a combination electric motor / generator. Another method is to tap just enough power at the output capacitor bank
so that we do not load the circuit too much. This can be done by transistor switching at the output.

I do not think it is a big problem that TR is not talking to us. He has posted all information needed in his videos and
it is easy to make good drawings based on the information in the videos. My personal goal is to try to make a looped
one battery only switch. No measurements is necessary in such a solution. If the battery charge up then bring out
the champagne.

Regards,
Groundloop.

@Groundloop

This seems to be a simple solution
On the electric motor / generator this is bad efficiency compared to solid-state but if it works why not.
As I have seen problems with lead acid batteries in the past with these kind of circuits, is it possible to use an other capacitor bank instead.
My knowledge of electronics is limited and I have stated my position at the bottom of page 3 in this thread.
I have seen your great work on this forum before

hopefully champagne
cat

gyulasun · « **Reply #204 on:** April 28, 2009, 05:20:31 PM »

Quote from: Groundloop on April 28, 2009, 03:19:01 PM

....
What will give me the highest Q factor for as coil. Is it a thick wire big air core coil or
a more compact Ferrite core coil?
....

@Groundloop,

The best would be using a pot core to get high Q values for the some kHz range. Pot cores of 20-30mm diameter and A_L values of some thousand. And thick wire to get the lowest copper loss possible, considering the winding volume of the pot core. I do not think an air core coil can beat a pot core in Q values at this (audio) frequency range. EPCOS (ex Siemens) or Philips or Neosid may be available in your country.

rgds, Gyula

hartiberlin · « **Reply #205 on:** April 28, 2009, 05:25:55 PM »

His latest video at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzS7MN_u-54

shows exactly that this system with the small motors are NOT overunity.

Otherwise you would have at the motor side
always a higher current at the same 12.5 Volts supply and output Voltages.
But it is not.

Or you would have a higher Voltage at the same amperage. But you also donÂ´t have that.

So it is clear now, that this system at least with these small motors is unfortunately not overunity.

Regards, Stefan.

peper10 · « **Reply #206 on:** April 28, 2009, 05:27:10 PM »

Quote from: hartiberlin on April 28, 2009, 01:27:23 PM

Groundloop,

Tommey really needs to do current measurements on a shunt
or via lowpassfilter at the battery source, otherwise his meters
will not really show what is going on.

Regards, Stefan.

@all,Something gone bad when you talk about mesurements!!!!
I go back and look at the mesurements that Mr.Peter Lindemen did on his rotary attraction motor and for me,it seams that Tommey
take his mesurements the same way...
Even if it`s chopped ,the AMPS will remain good with a good amp meter.
The more you chopped the amps,the lower gonna be the reading right?

?
If a guy like Peter Lindemen take his reading like this it must be ok..

chrisC · « **Reply #207 on:** April 28, 2009, 06:28:28 PM »

Quote from: powercat on April 28, 2009, 02:01:28 PM

@all
communication with Tommey

1 he only answer some questions on YouTube
2 he has stated that he is not interested in joining this Forum
3 did anyone try ringing him on the number posted on YouTube and here ?

We can only hope that he has come up with a new way of feeding back to source,
as this problem has been highlighted here and in the past many times

cat

Hi Cat:

Tommey and I had telephone conversations the past day. He is indeed one of a kind. Not schooled the usual college way but surely a rare gem in his ability to comprehend, invent and deliver solutions. He has worked on many different projects, some of them way over my head!

He's not really interested in OU forum because it takes too much time and too many people don't know what they are talking about. He also indicated he does not want people to 'visit' him because he's got much to do and of course, he doesn't know the people who wants to 'check' him out.

I'm trying to convince him to 'close' the loop and he is considering doing that. he also has other mind blowing projects he wants to show at some stage but I am not at liberty to talk about it. Other than that he truly is a very sociable, unassuming nice guy and very bright too!

cheers
chrisC

chrisC · « **Reply #208 on:** April 28, 2009, 06:38:39 PM »

Quote from: hartiberlin on April 28, 2009, 05:25:55 PM

His latest video at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzS7MN_u-54

shows exactly that this system with the small motors are NOT overunity.

Otherwise you would have at the motor side
always a higher current at the same 12.5 Volts supply and output Voltages.
But it is not.

Or you would have a higher Voltage at the same amperage. But you also donÂ´t have that.

So it is clear now, that this system at least with these small motors is unfortunately not overunity.

Regards, Stefan.

Hi Stefan:

Not sure if you're interpreting the video correctly? Or maybe I did not quite understand. In the previous video before this one that you've referenced, my previous post is as follows:

The battery & PWM draws 116ma and I assume a duty cycle of 50% at 12V. This is an average power of 0.116x12x0.5=0.7W.
The unloaded capacitor voltage spiked at 115V but settled at 24V useful voltage and runs the motor at 68ma (assuming it's all DC) giving a power at 1.63W . That's proof of O.U!

Now, this is at 50% duty cycle, at 30%, the results are even better! The average current measured at the battery & PWM side is quite accurately measured. The load side is stabilized by large capacitor(s) and delivers what that motor needed at 12.5V. Even if the real current measured is off by 20%, it still delivers much more power?

cheers
chrisC

powercat · « **Reply #209 on:** April 28, 2009, 06:40:22 PM »

Hi chrisC
Great news, well done and thanks forr sharing
letts hope Tommey and others can close the loop

cat

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Author Topic: Are Tommey ReedÂ´s pulse motor circuits overunity ? (Read 160818 times)

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