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Author Topic: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?  (Read 136350 times)

Offline powercat

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Re: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?
« Reply #210 on: April 28, 2009, 06:58:30 PM »
His latest video at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzS7MN_u-54

shows exactly that this system with the small motors are NOT overunity.

Otherwise you would have at the motor side
always a higher current at the same 12.5 Volts supply and output Voltages.
But it is not.

Or you would have a higher Voltage at the same amperage. But you also don´t have that.

So it is clear now, that this system at least with these small motors is unfortunately not overunity.

Regards, Stefan.

Hi Stefan
Tommey has so many videos and measurements it's as clear as mud to me
but in his second too last I felt the grooup was convinced of OU

vid 52 Pulse Generator, the basic load test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y09nRSQnpfg&feature=channel_page

cat

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Offline bolt

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Re: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?
« Reply #211 on: April 28, 2009, 07:11:38 PM »
NOPE his system already has a pre-smoothing cap bank from the battery. This averages out the demand from the system so all those pulses are now averaged out as DC well close enough for good measurements.

SOyou example 0.116x12x0.5=0.7W. is actually 0.116 * 12.8 volts his battery is not 12v dead. = 1.4848 watts i/p

"Now, this is at 50% duty cycle, at 30%, the results are even better! The average current measured at the battery & PWM side is quite accurately measured. The load side is stabilized by large capacitor(s) and delivers what that motor needed at 12.5V. Even if the real current measured is off by 20%, it still delivers much more power?"

WRONG i/p power is still smoothed showing demand via caps therefore whatever his  clamp meter shows is the correct reading on battery cable. There is no further requirement to take into account PW. If the efficiency changes as a result of PW change that's something different.

"The unloaded capacitor voltage spiked at 115V but settled at 24V useful voltage and runs the motor at 68ma (assuming it's all DC) giving a power at 1.63W . That's proof of O.U!"

Well with a demand of 1.63 watts and 1.4848 watts i/p its OU with 146 milliwatts spare. Certainly wont win any prizes with this and too close to call parity with measurement errors.  ALL back EMF system is OU by design 1.618 * Q but his system losses and bad matching losing OU.   Never get it looped either need a system with at least  COP>3 to loop.

Basically all he has made is a buck boost converter depending on load and supply demands. If i see  10 watts in and 30 watts out then he is on to something interesting.

I explained earlier post optimal PW is 38.2% fibo. This is why Tommy see 30% better then 50% but he dont know the math or reason.



Offline chrisC

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Re: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?
« Reply #212 on: April 28, 2009, 07:25:22 PM »
NOPE his system already has a pre-smoothing cap bank from the battery. This averages out the demand from the system so all those pulses are now averaged out as DC well close enough for good measurements.

SOyou example 0.116x12x0.5=0.7W. is actually 0.116 * 12.8 volts his battery is not 12v dead. = 1.4848 watts i/p

"Now, this is at 50% duty cycle, at 30%, the results are even better! The average current measured at the battery & PWM side is quite accurately measured. The load side is stabilized by large capacitor(s) and delivers what that motor needed at 12.5V. Even if the real current measured is off by 20%, it still delivers much more power?"

WRONG i/p power is still smoothed showing demand via caps therefore whatever his  clamp meter shows is the correct reading. There is no further requirement to take into account PW. If the efficiency changes as a result that's something different.

@Bolt

Thank you for the clarification. I guess if those measuring instruments already computed and averaged out the currents then the results are not O.U. I am still learning about measuring instruments and techniques.

cheers
chrisC

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Re: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?
« Reply #212 on: April 28, 2009, 07:25:22 PM »
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Offline powercat

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Re: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?
« Reply #213 on: April 28, 2009, 07:39:23 PM »
@all
In Tommey's latest video he has gone small-scale
is this making a difference to the OU measurements :P

cat

Offline minde4000

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Re: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?
« Reply #214 on: April 28, 2009, 08:00:47 PM »
Thats a northstar 10kw 3600 rpm 2 pole generator head. I wonder if he is using 110 outlets or 220 outlets. If he could reach loaded 110 operating ac and could use 40 amp battery charger to loop it back. Maybe I am missing something.

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Re: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?
« Reply #214 on: April 28, 2009, 08:00:47 PM »
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Offline bolt

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Re: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?
« Reply #215 on: April 28, 2009, 08:02:56 PM »
Makes it harder now as in the realms of kitchen table builder where OU becomes smaller and smaller value. This is where bedini builders slip into non OU or barely OU and measurement errors are easy to debunk. Now with just 50 milliwatts spare OU builders see special battery conditioning and other excuses.

The pulsing of the Bedini coil is exactly the same so if you make a huge one very well built with 10 coils then OU becomes clearer as system losses get smaller versus OU gains.

Offline minde4000

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Re: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?
« Reply #216 on: April 28, 2009, 08:33:17 PM »
So is this going to settle down to duty cycle factor mistakenly used twice in efficiency math?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 09:41:46 PM by minde4000 »

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Re: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?
« Reply #216 on: April 28, 2009, 08:33:17 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?
« Reply #217 on: April 28, 2009, 09:23:12 PM »
So is this going to settle down to duty cycle factor mistakenly used twice in efficiency math?

Yes, I also mixed that up until Groundloop brought it up,so my former efficiency calculations were wrong.

The input current is already the AVERAGED CURRENT due to the duty cycle averaged into it !

So you really have to take the normal input voltage and multiply it with this averaged input
current of the meter to get the input power.

You can not calculate again the duty cycle into the input voltage, that would give wrong results !

I made this error myself at the beginning, so these OU statements were wrong.

I wonder, how his digital clampmeter measures the duty cycled input current pulses.

Can it really show an averaged input current via the right internal integration
or will it get jammed by the pulses ?

So for sure a
1. graphical measurement ofthe input current with shunts and scope shots
or
2. a lowpassfilter DC like input current measurement directly
at the battery before the lowpassfilter

would give much more accurate input current readings.

I really don´t trust his digital clampmeter being able to show the real
averaged input current , which is needed to calculate the correct
input power.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline chrisC

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Re: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?
« Reply #218 on: April 28, 2009, 09:33:07 PM »
Yes, I also mixed that up until Groundloop brought it up,so my former efficiency calculations were wrong.

The input current is already the AVERAGED CURRENT due to the duty cycle averaged into it !

So you really have to take the normal input voltage and multiply it with this averaged input
current of the meter to get the input power.

You can not calculate again the duty cycle into the input voltage, that would give wrong results !

I made this error myself at the beginning, so these OU statements were wrong.

I wonder, how his digital clampmeter measures the duty cycled input current pulses.

Can it really show an averaged input current via the right internal integration
or will it get jammed by the pulses ?

So for sure a
1. graphical measurement ofthe input current with shunts and scope shots
or
2. a lowpassfilter DC like input current measurement directly
at the battery before the lowpassfilter

would give much more accurate input current readings.

I really don´t trust his digital clampmeter being able to show the real
averaged input current , which is needed to calculate the correct
input power.

Regards, Stefan.


I think Tommy should just measure the input current with an old fashioned analog needle meter and that will show the current quite accurately. The output (motor) current is  capacitive DC current and those meters are probably OK. I sent Bolt's remarks to Tom. He has yet to respond.

cheers
chrisC

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?
« Reply #218 on: April 28, 2009, 09:33:07 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?
« Reply #219 on: April 28, 2009, 10:00:17 PM »
Here in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y09nRSQnpfg

he has a COP of about 1.3

Output:
24Volts x 0.068 Amps= 1.632 Watts

Input:
12 Volts x 0.105 Amps= 1.26Watts

COP= 1.3

Here we have about 30 % overunity.

P.S. To calculate the duty cycle into the battery voltage is wrong, cause the measured input current has already the duty cycle averaged in.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?
« Reply #220 on: April 28, 2009, 10:05:27 PM »
The optimal pulse width is 38.2% (Fibo) for this setup. 

This is why Tommy is seeing 30% better then 50% but he don't know the math behind it.

The system gain is (1.618 * Q of the coil)- System losses.




Hi Bolt,
can you please explain this some more ?

What do you mean by

"The system gain is (1.618 * Q of the coil)"  ?

Many thanks.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?
« Reply #220 on: April 28, 2009, 10:05:27 PM »
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Offline powercat

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Re: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?
« Reply #221 on: April 28, 2009, 11:09:25 PM »
54

Pulse Generator, PWM output and how much power 001
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPnAH6Q4HcI&feature=channel_page
Quote from Tommey
Ohm's law says:
The coil is about 1 ohm resistance
If the coil is 1 0hm's and you pull .100ma then:
E=I*R 1* .100= 100 mv or I=E/R = 100ma
The power is P=E*I


cat
Rushing can lead to a delay,  but can a delay lead to OU
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 11:44:35 PM by powercat »

Offline nyctuber

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Re: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?
« Reply #222 on: April 28, 2009, 11:13:40 PM »
New vid

Offline minde4000

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Re: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?
« Reply #223 on: April 29, 2009, 12:28:28 AM »
Hilarious video  ;D He deserves respect for his time and efforts. Pretty simple setup now. Another thing when you pulse something big like this low resistance coil he has in a video wouldnt such non-resistive/reactive load being pulsed with high frequency (12dc only) voltage drop voltage potential due to losses every pulse to much lower levels like 1dc or below like he is getting? Mosfet pulses source voltage wich is 12dc not 1dc into the coil so its 12dc x XX amps not otherwise. Is his math wrong or mine?  ;D

Offline chrisC

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Re: Are Tommey Reed´s pulse motor circuits overunity ?
« Reply #224 on: April 29, 2009, 12:41:31 AM »
Hilarious video  ;D He deserves respect for his time and efforts. Pretty simple setup now. Another thing when you pulse something big like this low resistance coil he has in a video wouldnt such non-resistive/reactive load being pulsed with high frequency (12dc only) voltage drop voltage potential due to losses every pulse to much lower levels like 1dc or below like he is getting? Mosfet pulses source voltage wich is 12dc not 1dc into the coil so its 12dc x XX amps not otherwise. Is his math wrong or mine?  ;D

Seems like he has a point when he equaled the currents in both input and output, the small motor does not run. So, some part of the equation has got to give(?).

Bolt, what is your take on this?

cheers
chrisC

 

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