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Author Topic: Permanent magnets and the electromagnet  (Read 6912 times)

pinestone

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Permanent magnets and the electromagnet
« on: April 10, 2009, 04:48:22 PM »
With the help of my brother-in-law, I now have a small & powerful Bedini motor charging an almost dead 12V battery.

At some point during our experiments, he put a 1.2 T cylinder magnet on the end of the pulse coil's core. (opposite of the rotor end). The rotor increases its speed about 20%. If we add 2 more magnets at 90 degrees to the core at the same end, the rotor more than doubles its rotational speed.

see: http://www.nanomagnetics.us/projects/bedini%20motor/bedini%20w-magnets.jpg

Polarity matters. The fields are in repulsion (*corrected), and if we reverse the polarity, the motor slows down.

Has anyone else tried this?

I've made some tests and taken pix...maybe someone would care to comment.

The oscilloscope shows the waveform at the charge point. The frequency counter shows the input coil pulses and the meter indicates total current draw through the transistor.

Since my rotor has 3 magnets, the indicated frequency must be divided by 3 and multiplied by 60 to get RPM's.

First pix, no magnets: http://www.nanomagnetics.us/projects/bedini%20motor/1bedini%20no%20magnets.jpg
280 mA @ 1160 RPM

Second pix: 1 magnet: http://www.nanomagnetics.us/projects/bedini%20motor/1bedini%20w-one%20magnet.jpg
320 mA @ 1960 RPM

Third pix: 2 magnets: http://www.nanomagnetics.us/projects/bedini%20motor/1bedini%20w-two%20magnets.jpg
360 mA @ 2780 RPM

Fourth pix: 3 magnets: http://www.nanomagnetics.us/projects/bedini%20motor/1bedini%20w-three%20magnets.jpg
370 mA @ 3300 RPM

* I made a polarity correction.

WTF???
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 03:32:57 AM by pinestone »
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pinestone

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Re: Permanent magnets and the electromagnet
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2009, 03:30:19 AM »
Well, I think I've figured it out. Someone let me know if this makes sense.

Normally, the rotor magnets are attracted to the steel core. There is a lot of rotational resistance due to the strong attraction.

By placing magnets on the opposite side of the steel core, a huge amount of repulsion appears on the rotor side of the steel core. This results in a minimum amount of 'stick' and the rotor can spin up faster with much less resistance.

 ;)
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pinestone

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Re: Permanent magnets and the electromagnet
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2009, 03:31:28 AM »
oops
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akunkeji

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Re: Permanent magnets and the electromagnet
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2009, 05:21:42 AM »
Yes, I have been doing so :)
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Michelinho

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Re: Permanent magnets and the electromagnet
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2009, 08:05:50 AM »

Hi pinestone,

Nicely done. You could also use copper around your coil to get a stronger pulse from your electromagnet. The coil must be fairly flat though. That principle is used in transformers.

Take care,

Michel

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capthook

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Re: Permanent magnets and the electromagnet
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2009, 08:36:12 AM »
Here are a few previous posts elsewhere on this forum relating to this that you may find of interest:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1621.msg16347.html#msg16347
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5929.msg134797#msg134797
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5929.msg135741#msg135741


- - - -
Placing a small magnet at the far end of the electromagnet in repulsion to the armature magnet will negate the attraction of the armature to the core (providing a sufficient airgap) requiring less power to repulse.
Also, the electromagnet core now already has some of the domains aligned.  When the power is introduced, it provides a greater effect.
ie:
end magnet: 5,000 Gauss
power em: 5,000 Gauss
when used together: 20,000 Gauss - a doubling of the Gauss
(not exact figures - just presenting the idea)

- - - -
"there is known "trick"  or idea to defeat the attraction between the core and the permanent magnet so that you can even get a benefit of not using extra input power to defeat it.
About 2 years ago I mentioned this idea here, see:  http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1621.msg16347.html#msg16347  and the link to that old patent is here, the old link mentioned there now needs log-in, this one is not: http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat3670189.pdf
(explanation in Page 12, Column 2,  from line 31 and onwards)
rgds,  Gyula"
- -
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capthook

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Re: Permanent magnets and the electromagnet
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2009, 08:39:56 AM »
Quote from: Michelinho on April 11, 2009, 08:05:50 AM
You could also use copper around your coil to get a stronger pulse from your electromagnet. The coil must be fairly flat though. That principle is used in transformers.

Would you please elaborate on this?  Details, methods, construction, links, data, theory etc. etc.

Thanks!
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Michelinho

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Re: Permanent magnets and the electromagnet
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2009, 10:04:15 AM »
Hi capthook,

I first saw its use in a coil on the ROMAG motor generator as a copper pipe length that surround the rotor and act as the coil winding core. It is used to reverse the field to prevent cancellation of the output and have the coil produce from all its magnet wire length.

We then experimented by applying a copper shield 1/16" thick in different position and coverage of the coil, the best results were about 1/4 of a regular coil circumference and we saw an increase in the output of the same coil over the unshielded coil. We use the oscilloscope to check the output and it did show a significant increase. If there is an increase in the output then the magnetic field is concentrated in the coil and not outside.

I hope this helps in understanding the concept.

Take care,

Michel



It is tests we did and we just noticed it and thought it could be of use in the future on boosting a Bedini window motor based replication we are designing at the moment and should start construction in the coming weeks.

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wings

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Re: Permanent magnets and the electromagnet
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2009, 06:49:45 PM »
Quote from: pinestone on April 11, 2009, 03:30:19 AM
Well, I think I've figured it out. Someone let me know if this makes sense.

Normally, the rotor magnets are attracted to the steel core. There is a lot of rotational resistance due to the strong attraction.

By placing magnets on the opposite side of the steel core, a huge amount of repulsion appears on the rotor side of the steel core. This results in a minimum amount of 'stick' and the rotor can spin up faster with much less resistance.

 ;)

;)
"By placing magnets on the opposite side"

Oooops... see this patent by Lockheed Martin Corporation:

Patent number: 5929732

http://www.google.com/patents?id=V7YYAAAAEBAJ&dq=lockheed+magnets&rview=1

"high power electromagnetis impulse EMP" ...."can also transport electromagnetic charges through a distance...."

Also you have a similar configuration ...  in the rotor if you put the magnet in the same way around the rotor ...Bedini obtain charges .....
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