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Author Topic: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!  (Read 58147 times)

Offline clflyguy

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #45 on: April 12, 2009, 08:33:04 PM »
DUDE!

  I thought you said you had been reading at Otherpower for two years? The whole concept of these type alternators is having the stator between two
mag rotors to take advantage of the more powerful mag flux available with the NIB mags. Your idea about having an alt at each end has been hashed over
many many times and for efficiencies/costs sake the decision has to go to just one somewhat larger alt. One mag rotor & one set of coils doesn't make
power as efficiently as two mag rotors, one on each side of a set of coils. Plus it's cheaper, because you don't have to make two sets of coils.

-Of course the center pipe turns, why add friction? It reaches from bearing to bearing and provides stabilization to the machine's mass. It does not require
any special effort to turn, as it turns with the mass of the machine itself.

Separated 1 rotor/1 stator sets would actually make for a HIGHER start-up speed because they would have to be spun faster to to make the same voltage as a
2 mag rotor/1 stator alt.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #45 on: April 12, 2009, 08:33:04 PM »

Offline infringer

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2009, 06:36:49 AM »
OK lets take this approach then you tell me what is needed and listen so far from what I am gathering I need this.

So materials needed to make this all work are:

- 24 Coated magnets for hughe piggots turbine
http://www.magnet4less.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_123&products_id=423
- 11 lbs 13gauge magnetic coil
http://www.magnet4less.com/product_info.php?cPath=9_20&products_id=178
- 2 55gal Drums
http://store.bayteccontainers.com/plastic-water-drum-55-gallon.html
- 2 Rotors
http://www.forcefieldmagnets.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_30&products_id=155&osCsid=5tmcqv5394ts68t19j7g1o2vb6
- Fiberglass and Resin
http://www.fiberglasssite.com/servlet/StoreFront
- Epoxy for magnets
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXTYG7&P=FR
- Shafts
?
- Bearings
?
- Spacer plate for magnets for setting up the space between mags
http://www.forcefieldmagnets.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_30&products_id=165

Does this all seem correct or am I missing something? I guess I need to know the specs of what I all need as far as poles and such so I can get er done and get it started. My main issue will be the shafts and such required there is one local junkyard that I have trouble making it to during the week due to my work hours.

Obviously we will need different bolts and fasteners and brackets I have purchased some angle brackets steels 1/8" 3" x  3"
Lets do it.

Why don't you make me out a complete listing of what I need and I'll go there and get it.

I must warn you ahead of time I do not have a welder personally a friends friend has one wire feed so if I can do this without welding it would be a preference ... Which is why I was suggesting the previous setup. The other way I see it can be done without a welder would be the top rotor connected to the barrels and the bottom rotor and the coils in the center stationary... But this is not what you have planned so I will follow just tell me what is needed.

EDIT we will also need batteries.

Deka MK Gel Sealed what rating and how many?
http://greenenergiesllc.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=10&zenid=127d5d77920a13328702f45bf27e08b5
Charge controller suggestion?


UPDATE: MAGS ON ORDER along with mag spacer plate so I can be sure the spacing is correct looks like its 12"

I did not order rotor cause I need to see what I can dig up possibly... Don't have the faintest clue where to start trailer parks are doubtful but I will look into where to find these things.

What would it be called exactly that I am looking for and need for the shaft (pole) and bearings and where are some obvious places to look for them with a 12" rotor ?

Thanks
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 07:08:24 AM by infringer »

Offline Michelinho

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #47 on: April 13, 2009, 11:20:05 AM »
Hi Cityboy,

Quote
Note to Michelinho- Earlier in this thread you suggested that Infringer mount the mags with all of the same polarity facing one direction-

That was for the real Savonius rotor which uses magnets upright at the end of a flat rotor and coils upright on the stator around the rotor facing those magnets mimicking the window/SSG motor setup.

@ Infringer,

Quote
Deka MK Gel Sealed what rating and how many?
http://greenenergiesllc.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=10&zenid=127d5d77920a13328702f45bf27e08b5
Charge controller suggestion?

You can use regular car batteries because the charge controller is a pulse charging unit and it does enhance the useful life expectancy of the lead acid batteries.

The charge controller depends on your alternator output.

Take care,

Michel



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #47 on: April 13, 2009, 11:20:05 AM »
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Offline tbird

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #48 on: April 13, 2009, 03:52:31 PM »
Quote
You can use regular car batteries because the charge controller is a pulse charging unit and it does enhance the useful life expectancy of the lead acid batteries.

i think if you use a regular car battery, you'll be sorry!  you should use a deep cycle battery, like a golf cart battery.  car batteries basically have one job, start the engine.  after that the alt supplies all the power requirements.

i would suggest going with 6 volt golf cart batteries.  this way you are assured of getting a deep cycle battery (and they are easier to connect multiples) .  if you go with a 12volt battery, make sure it is heavy for its size.  most golf cart batteries weight about 60 lbs. (+ or - 5%).  as you may know most car batteries are much lighter because they only need a surge once in awhile, for a short time to start the engine.  lighter = less lead.

also the nice gel and agm batteries are expensive compared to the $60-65 (+ core and tax) at sam's club for golf cart batteries. you will get 3-5 years (on average) good use.  plenty of time to make sure you want to stay with this system.  then if you want a longer lasting (if you don't overcharge them) battery, you can switch.

tom

Offline infringer

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2009, 07:30:55 PM »
I have had horrible luck with car batteries...

I dunno dont think I will take that route the deka mk seem fairly reasonable...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2009, 07:30:55 PM »
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Offline clflyguy

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2009, 08:30:16 PM »
@ Tom- Yeah, Sam's 6v golfcart batts are the perfect choice at this stage of the game- floodeds are much easier to monitor properly.

@ Michelinho-  It's CLFLYGUY 8)

@ Infringer-
 
Forget steel rotors from Otherpower unless you just want to pay shipping on $80.00 of steel. Find a Brake Shop somewhere and grab a couple
of discarded disc brake rotors - They're FREE and the magnets stick to them just fine..

The template for the mags you can make for yourself with a compass, protractor and a piece of cardboard.... 12 mags, 30^ apart = 360^

So far I've saved you over $100.00....

The center pipe can be galv. water pipe, mild steel, galv. fence pipe- whatever, so long as it's straight.

Sheet of 1/2" exterior plywood for top, middle & bottom discs (airflow enhancers) and assorted other smaller discs yet to be discussed...

A gallon of your favorite color exterior latex enamel

There has to be four welds- the four 1/4"x2"x approx. 8" pieces of plate that the threaded rod that suspends the stator are bolted to,
and your buddies wire feed gun will do fine- just be sure to take hub, bearing and any lubricant off before welding.

Two hub assemblies- take a look at some of these I found at Northern Tool, maybe you can find some locally or cheaper somewhere

https://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/NTESearch?Ne=2000002&Ntt=Tie%20Down&Ntk=All&storeId=6970&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&N=166843+2000006

Study a couple of the early builds of the brake rotor alternators at Otherpower.

Later...

Offline Michelinho

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #51 on: April 14, 2009, 01:06:24 AM »


Sorry CLFLYGUY for the error  :'( , I was on painkillers all weekend long (still on), had a blurry vision and mind.

Take care,  ;D

Michel




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #51 on: April 14, 2009, 01:06:24 AM »
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Offline infringer

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #52 on: April 14, 2009, 01:17:32 AM »
CLFYGUY,

Sweet deal bud looking good thus far rustolelum seems to fair pretty well hell folks have been doing paint jobs on there cars with it some had good success while others had issues but that alone says something aside from the fact that I have used it and it lasted fairly long even outdoors and its cheap to boot so that'll be what I shall use!

I may paint the barrels to slave off some of the wear from the sun if they are any other color then white. That is the color I will be using to reflect as much sunlight as possible.

Offline Thaelin

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #53 on: April 15, 2009, 08:49:38 PM »
   OK, I have to bring up one "VERY" important item that seems to be left
out of all the sites on wind. I have ask the question a few times and no one
will venture to answer but sure needs to be thought out carefully.
   How are you going to lower the two rotor halves together, safely? You have
12 pairs of 13000 gauss at a very small distance apart when in place. That
converts to one hell of a lot of force wanting to crush anything that gets in the
way. Namely hands and fingers.
   Make sure you have someone handy to help you or at least watch so if it
goes wrong can help you. I cringe when I think of two  2X1X1/2 grade 45 neos
that close.

   Since I could get no good answer, I chose to go with smaller mags and more
coils in a larger circle. When you look at the layout of the stator compared to the
rotor, you will always have 4 magnets and 3 coils. My mag/coil sets are 12/16
and the rotors will actually have 48 magnets on them. This leaves me a great
latitude on wire up of the phases. At the moment, I see 9 phases out to three
diode sets.

thaelin

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #53 on: April 15, 2009, 08:49:38 PM »
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Offline clflyguy

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #54 on: April 16, 2009, 04:02:00 AM »
  Some folks drill a couple extra holes in the rotors for jacking screws. Personally the use of heavy welders gloves, the friction of the first rotors five 1/2"-13
threaded rods against the sides of the holes on the second rotor, and a couple paint stir sticks did the trick.... Along with five carefully measured & cut
aluminum tube spacers that held the rotors perfectly parallel to one another, (they fit over the all-thread between the rotors). 8)

clflyguy

Offline Michelinho

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2009, 06:39:53 AM »


Hi Thaelin,

I also uses 16 magnets per rotor and 12 coils. The magnets are 1.5" x 1" x 1/4" Blocks and had no trouble assembling these rotors with a center spacer installed and no stator in place. I made my stator in 2 halves with 6 coils on each and I can assemble and disassemble them without having to touch the rotors. I can change the coil wire size if need be even without stopping the alternator. Installing the second rotor with a stator in place would be a lot harder if jack screws are not used. I also use 12 rectifier bridges, one for each coil, that way I can set it for 12 volts, 24 volts, 36 volts or 48 volts just with a fast modification of the external connections.

Take care,

Michel


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2009, 06:39:53 AM »
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Offline infringer

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #56 on: April 17, 2009, 09:54:42 PM »
hrmm... yes that is an issue I am glad you brought that one up...

I was under the assumption you adjust the space between two nylock nuts on a threaded rod, then you get your spacing 1 on top one on the bottom.

UPDATE on my progress:

I received 24 magnets 75lb pull epoxy coated.
I also received my plate to have precise spacing between each mag on the rotor.

Still working at the rest of her but I will get there!

Offline infringer

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #57 on: April 18, 2009, 02:38:44 AM »
I was able to track down some rotors at a local break joint crazy stuff indeed there is a dumpster full of em I couldn't give the guys money no matter how hard I tried so I spent 10bux in there gas station needed milk and such anyways and figure need to keep em in business somehow...

Problem is I got a set of 13" rotors and a set of 12" rotors hrmmm well I suppose it'll do the trick one pair is only a spare I'll stick with the 12's for general purpose. Now if I could find a cheap steam engine boy would I be whooping some arse!

Gotta love when things start to take shape.

Offline infringer

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2009, 05:58:28 PM »
The paint choice for me is epoxy paint by Krylon. It dries and hardens well.

The color choosing will be white to effectively stamp out as much heat absorbing factor as I can without heat things tend to weather a little more less.

Tonight the plan is to work at getting rid of all the rust on the rotors possibly painting as well.
Tools I will be using is an orbital sanding unit and a Black and Decker Dremel which is the best dremel for the money at walmart loads of power I have used the regular dremel brand and it does not compare unless you get the 100.00 version not worth it though trust me!

Oh hell one slight issue I have is forgetting to purchase the glue for the mags! Well at least I can make some forward progress on the rotors and have them all marked out as per the instructions of the members here.

I still am lost at the complete design from clfguy I really need to understand the mechanics of the rest of the turbine and his design he seems to be pretty firm and sure on his design not that there are not other ways to do it I'm sure but I want a solid proven design!

I question how these poles and stators and rotors and blades are going to all come together I know threaded rod was mentioned and welds here and there...

Thanks for the help guys please don't stop now I really need your help we can do this cheaply and make the whole project available for folks to see here publically.


Offline clflyguy

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #59 on: April 19, 2009, 11:33:47 PM »
OK then,
  Moving right along... Good score on the rotors 8)
Go ahead and get your 1/2" exterior plywood, carefully layout then cutout your discs. You will see in the included drawings
that you have a little woodwork to do, and it must be done with a little forethought- make templates for the smaller discs
as they must be very accurate to accommodate the five lug pattern of the hub (on top) and magnet (brake) rotor (bottom).

  Measure & think many times before cutting as you actually end up saving time.

  please email me directly as we need to talk...   sidneydotraifordatgmaildotcom

now for drawings....

 

OneLink