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Author Topic: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!  (Read 56982 times)

Offline infringer

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2009, 05:27:05 PM »
Too sweet 440bux I might be in budget if I purchase one of these and I build my barrel turbine this forum kicks rear! Don't really wanna erect the turbine so to speak errrr! at that price ready made though is the first fair price I have seen thus far.

Sucks its only for the month of April though... Kinda pushy makes me question weather it is legit or a scam... I suppose if it were I have relatives in AZ that could take care of it!

errr yeah cityguy dunno whats up with him.



Michelinho, I don't know how to thank you bud you have been a great help taking time out of your day everyday for someone you don't even know man much appreciated that is too cool man!

The wattage being higher was the result I would expect as well with a larger rotor but now that I need this rotor to be a rotor from say an automotive or trailer part I will reduce the size a bit unless I can somehow shield my magnets in a different manner.

Anyhow still looking I would love to just try glassing them in but I don't care to waste 100bux on mags and have them not put out nothing obviously I want to maximize output from an design already made.

Well I will have to cut out for now until tonight lots of cleaning to do spring is here.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2009, 05:27:05 PM »

Offline tbird

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2009, 08:55:06 PM »
hi infringer,

this page (really his whole website) maybe helpful too if you decide to build yourself.

http://www.windstuffnow.com/main/builders_corner.htm


in the instructions for putting his kit together, you'll find info on how to wind coils, etc.

http://www.windstuffnow.com/turbine%20kit.pdf

i bought one of his kits.  i have to say i like it.  it is just right for learning and still end up with something a bit bigger than the first.  it will cost a bit more by the time all parts are counted, but still not a bad price.

those steel plates really make a difference!  with a rotor with magnets facing stator, on both sides of the stator, the flux that would normally spread out all around the magnet (without the steel plate) will be channeled between a north magnet on one disk and a south (facing) on the other disk.  this is where the stator lives.  this gives a lot more available flux to make power as it passes the coils.

he is really nice and easy to get along with.  he even welded (at a real cheap price) the few pieces together for me before shipping

tom. 

Offline clflyguy

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2009, 10:47:58 PM »
Geeez, guys....
  I take Good Friday off and y'all think I jumped ship. I had chores to do.
 
A trailer hub with its stub axle welded onto the end of a piece of something (pipe, channel, angle, trailer undercariage parts) puts the underside of the machine
and the alternator not much higher than your head (hopefuly) for ease of maintenance. Trailer hub already has conical bearings for end thrust. Use white lithium
grease and be liberal with it.

  Price two 3/8" thick 20" dia. waterjet cut pieces of plate mild steel, or use the brake discs, either way I can give you CAD or .jpg drawings for the parts
in a few min. based on a 5 lug pattern typical in the U.S..

  A sidenote though, if going with the 20" dia. alt., I would go 3 barrels high, as the resistance to movement upon reaching cut-in speed
(magnet/coil) even though electrically is virtually the same as on a 12 or 13" dia. brake rotor, it is not the same from a mechanical standpoint because
the location of the resistance (magnet coil- think of mechanical friction) is about 65% further away from the center of rotation which gives it a great deal more
mechanical advantage. (Thats why big dia. disc brakes stop you faster than small ones)
 
  To get what you want, with what you want to work with is going to take an alt that cuts in at a fairly low speed which means big coils... Speaking of which,
Michelinho said to wind your coils bifilar- I would say wind one that way and one the regular way and test them both individually- I seem to recall a lot of hubbub
a while back about bifilar coils not being inductive and not being right for the axial flux alts. I'm not an electronics guy so I'm not the oracle on that- GOOGLETIME!
I do know that a bifilar wound electromagnet is incredibly strong though- I have a little 1"x.25"x5" piece of mild steel with 3 layers of 50 turns wrapped in the
bifilar manner that will lift 6lbs. with a1.5v AA battery- incredible. Try a Google search of the Otherpower board on the bifilar stuff though, I seem to recall some problem.
  Pick an operating voltage so we can figure coil size and stuff. I will include some sketches of what I'm thinking about and you can tell me what to change and I'll attach
the edited version each time we talk- we can design this machine right here on the 'board, should be fun...

so, to start... (I hope it attached) here is one of my magnet rotors, easy to make and already has the convenience of being "componentized" to be used on a trailer hub.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2009, 10:47:58 PM »
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Offline clflyguy

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2009, 12:29:58 AM »
OK,
  Some sketches I drew up real quick, this first one is to scale with Mr. Ergo who is 6' tall to give a sense of size.

Offline clflyguy

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2009, 12:35:47 AM »
Wow, OK,
  If you hit enter it submits instantly..
This next one is a closeup of the alt from the side with the bottom most plywood disc and the axle stub that is to be welded to whatever elevated support.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2009, 12:35:47 AM »
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Offline Michelinho

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2009, 12:42:29 AM »

Hi Cityguy,

Nice drawings, it is indeed worth a thousand words.

Thanks,

Michel


Offline clflyguy

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2009, 12:44:31 AM »
This one lets you pretend you have xray vision, as you are looking through rotors, stator, split barrels and one of the plywood separator discs..
As far as the stability issue is concerned, you will need another hub at the top with a center pipe going up the middle to connect them. This is
about the only way to keep things from rapidly getting out of hand.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2009, 12:44:31 AM »
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Offline clflyguy

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2009, 12:50:15 AM »
This is a look at one of the brake rotors superimposed on the stator. The trailer hubs with stub axles have stubs that are square or round, get the square one for ease
of welding the stator support struts to.

Offline clflyguy

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2009, 12:57:22 AM »
Last one,
  Here is the top with the second hub, once again you can see how useful the square stub is for welding on the extended brackets for
the guy wires. In all seriousness, you could make the alternator in three evenings and the vawt over a weekend.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2009, 12:57:22 AM »
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Offline infringer

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2009, 03:13:21 AM »
The list the amperage and volts the thing puts out but there is no wattage curve which is what I am interested in ...

If the barrel turbine puts out more watts I figure why waste 440bux been thinking while I was out cleaning the garage I guess I'll have to do the math here...

5MPH
.2 amps
20 volts

10MPH
.4 amp
23 volt

15MPH
1.5 amp
42 volt

20MPH
3 amp
60 volt

25MPH
4.9 amp
72 volt

30MPH
7.5 amp
92 volt

35MPH
9.5 amp
104 volt

40MPH
10 amp
118 volt

45MPH
11 amp
120 volt

That is simply for the ready made jobber....

HOLY MOLY!

EUREAKA! I think we are one to one hell of a project there cityguy too sweet!

I have one issue though I am only able to get two barrels at the moment but I will most likely be cutting them in half tomorrow providing Easter Sunday is not to hectic my grandparents will be down in a week to spend the summer with us as well but there is no kabash on this project....

So I have barrels that are supposed to arrive tomorrow hope that materializes and I get time to cut them in half! But my coil did come in the mail 11lbs of it!

Offline infringer

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2009, 03:39:58 AM »
VOLTAGE I am going for 12v No Doubt there seems like the way to go.

Barrels will be 2 high and I will have to find some hubs so 12 or 13" seems like the way to go for now.

3 barrels would be great sure but 2 is what I can get for now so I will plan for 2...

hrmmm 13gauge coil here...

Not to go off topic here but those of you reading along interested in micro turbines you can use your computer case fans and some of that plastic packaging and some wood screws wire all your fans in a series and generate some power this was a little side test I did.

EDIT:
What did you use to anchor your magnets in place super glue or epoxy?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2009, 03:39:58 AM »
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Offline infringer

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2009, 04:26:43 AM »
Errr I should not have messed with my mags tonite but I was curious I noticed there was a hole in them so I dunno if those were the ones I got I actually bought these mags a while ago and I started pulling them apart and snap the force friggin busted the mag into pieces man these are some tough bastards lol!

NOTE: They may only have 81lbs pull force not 100% sure but I'm thinking of purchasing all new mags and saving these for another project down the line seeing as how I may need the extra pull  in order to generate some good power...

So how many mags? Where is the cheapest source? And what pull rating do you think is needed for it to put out some good wattage at lower speeds? Knowing that I broke one already thats possibly only 81lbs of pull I suppose I should order one or two extra in the event that I should break one again but it was either the mag or my finger so I chose the mag... Just breaking the mag tought me an important lesson though hehe I've ordered everything so far from magnet4less.com maybe they are cheaper somewhere else for all I know also is the length important ? Would one 4" in length allow for larger coils and more power output then one that is 2" long at the same pull force?

If you look off to the left there is the magnet that smashed into pieces definately will have to order more...

But maybe I'll just get all new seeing as how I will likely not be purchasing that tower setup I just aint into setting up a tower so to speak on a rental property the barrel turbine will do though I can always take that with me I have a feeling the shelf life of the barrels will be rather good being plastic.

And for documentation purposes a saloon door with a spring with coils and mags might not be a bad idea either to try ... Errr sorry for going off topic a little but I will jot down ideas like this during this whole project do not let them detour you in any way!

« Last Edit: April 12, 2009, 04:57:01 AM by infringer »

Offline clflyguy

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2009, 05:03:33 PM »
Alright Infringer!
  Finally, got a voltage to work with! Soooo, 12v, two barrels max.. In that case buy 24 of the 1x2x1/2" epoxy coated mags and mount them
N-S-N-S-N-S on the brake rotors with a little dab of epoxy under each one. Prepare the rotors first by sanding with some 80 grit and wiping
down with a clean rag and a little acetone. After mounting the mags (I hope you drew up and used a template) give the rotors at least two
coats of your favorite color Rustoleum. Before you even start though, you MUST align the brake rotors with each other based on their lug
holes and file a little notch on both of their outside perimeters at the same time so your mags will align properly- very important to do this
accurately and carefully. When all is said and done, your arrangement should be like this-

    rotorotorotorotorotor
    N S N S N S N S N
  statorstatorstatorstator
    S N S N S N S N S
    rotorotorotorotorotor

Note to Michelinho- Earlier in this thread you suggested that Infringer mount the mags with all of the same polarity facing one direction-
AAHHH! NNNOOOO!!! While this might work for a window motor or other more esoteric applications that I have seen here on this board
it definitely will not work on an axial flux alternator, plain and simple.

The mags you have now (if you bought some more for a complete set of 24) would be great for a larger machine, but have a little too
much ass for a two barrel 12v vawt.
  Since you're going with a vawt (somewhat slower) and 13ga. wire, then you will be in the neighborhood of about 65-70 turns per coil.

Offline infringer

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2009, 06:30:19 PM »
Before we go too wild do you have any idea what a rough output will be "LOW ESTIMATE" in say a 12mph wind watts?

I would say aside from the 2007 wind maps going by just normal observation that is my average wind speed not the 14mph that they say on the wind map...

I wanna have a decent wattage at this speed if I need bigger mags rotors or more barrels so be it...

I guess 400watts at 12mph wind would be ideal but I will settle for less if need be I will continue to work at the build aspect to fit the power production goal but I would prefer to know what I need before building you are a great help thus far man just hang in there with me and help me settle on a design after we are done I plan on creating a materials listing and a guide to follow.

Good power production at a cheap price that is the goal here time for the DIY guy to have the edge over the market.

WARNING: THIS IS NOT A SCALE DRAWING JUST A ROUGH SKETCH THE BLUE BOXES ARE THE BARREL HALVES AND THE GREEN LINE IS THE GRASSY GROUND!

Below is a picture of how I thought about this design before I knew a thing about savonious...
Things to note:
- The Pole is stationary
- The stator is stationary
- There are two generators on this unit one on top and one on the bottom..
- The barrels are connected to the rotor and spin around the pole
- The through bolts hold the barrel in place from bouncing up and down  and keep the unit solid while it spins.
- The two barrels sets are connected in the middle and will also need a bearing there as well.

Here is how I envisioned it to work I do not fully understand the mechanics of operation of your design but it appears as if the turbine will not only have to spin the rotor but it will have to spin a pole as well I am just trying to clarify the design principal pleas best describe the operation of your design maybe I'm used to lame schematics like the one I drew I dunno but here was my thought...

Enjoy time for a little spring cleaning I will check back now and then for rx's.

Offline infringer

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #44 on: April 12, 2009, 06:49:10 PM »
AHHH HA your stator will be between two rotors on the bottom even less to turn I think errr well in your design you will have to turn the pole as well as the rotor which will take more effort then turning two rotors I think will it not?

I dunno I think having two rotors will result in a lower startup speed and keep things more mechanically sound.

Just suggestions I value your input on these thoughts...

 

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