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Author Topic: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!  (Read 56132 times)

Offline clflyguy

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2009, 02:01:11 PM »
Alright,
  Now we are getting somewhere. That big open area is just screaming to me for a hawt not a vawt, vawts are for marginal areas
that have a lot of turbulence... It sounds like you have a really good site and the chemical barrels really do sound kind of scary,
even if they are free. I have had acid burns and caustic burns and neither is any fun, you betcha....
  I suggested brake rotors before because they can be used with an inexspensive trailer hub for a hawt or a vawt, and used ones
are usually free at a garage or brake shop. They are already the right size for a 12 or 24v turbine.
  More to come in a few min., I have to go look at something for you...

 http://www.tlgwindpower.com/rotors/trinadoelite.htm   -If you aren't in the mood to carve wood blades, these 7 foot alum. blades are only $269.00 and will give you many years of service without the problems associated with the Chineese fiberglass blades.
  If you have the patience and time, then wood blades are the cheapest answer at about $20.00 and lots of elbow grease.. You can
use the the money you saved on blades to buy some pipe for your tower or wire, inverter etc..

P.S. buy more magnets, you'll need 24 of them.
 
« Last Edit: April 09, 2009, 02:30:06 PM by clflyguy »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2009, 02:01:11 PM »

Offline infringer

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2009, 03:40:56 PM »
I rent currently but my landlords are how do you say very approving of anything...

I really do not want to have this super tall mast to take down if I happen to move I want something a little more ground level...

This may sound foolish to you but yesterday I did a test with some computer fans I find that they put out some decent current for there size...


Now if someone were to design a VWAT that would hold hundreds of these little fans to form each blade not only could the power be aquired from the turbine itself but each blade would put out power as well as the machine as a whole I know sounds a little like an impossible dream but I had to share the idea... (I will not be doing this it was only a test with an 80mm case fan.)

The design will be VWAT I am stuck with that so as far as blade carving that is far from an issue.

So I guess my build I want to keep simple yet with good output and at a cheap price budget wind turbine with the output and durability of a good VWAT that would normally cost me more ...

Lets stick with VWAT if it is break rotors I need then break rotors I will get with a trailer hub I would like to find some large ones though hopefully this is possible...

I would like the bearings to move quite smooth though I want to reduce friction and have power production at say a 7mph wind if possible.

Elbow grease is not a problem at all I know stuff just don't come served on a platter you have to work for it.
There is a barrel rolling design that I wouldn't mind building as well but the problem with that design is that it only catches wind in 2 directions so that lessens the output of the machine ... but in my case I would try that before an hwat...

I don't want hwat simply because of the tower erection I wanna stay away from this completely I was going to take that route and tie it to the house but research has indicated a better route for me to take in my position so I will stand with VWAT.

Offline Michelinho

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2009, 08:27:30 PM »
Hi Infringer,

Here is a way to improve the power of a barrel type Savonius, a pain to do but it could work. Make plenty of vertical rectangular holes, let's say 4" wide by 12" long, install rubber flaps to the inside curve so when it gets the negative pressure that lower torque, the flaps open to let air out and close when it is in the positive air pressure side, it could also be small hinges on the cutout pieces with limited travel.

Take care,

Michel


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2009, 08:27:30 PM »
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Offline infringer

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2009, 08:36:51 PM »
hehe that is a page out of my swastika looking turbine I assume I will run into some issues with the rubber flying off or jerking on the rotor lessening the shelf life of my system...

Or so it is said I like the barrel design because its shape alone minimizes back pressure or negative forces simply by aerodynamics.

I dont need sophisticated setup I suppose one that works is important if I have to go 3 barrels high to make it worth my while I will!

But I do not want a big tower cemented in the ground that I can not take with me...

Keepin it simple you know...

Take care man and the idea was superb I may try it out in a future build!

-infringer-

Offline Michelinho

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2009, 08:48:26 PM »

Re Infringer,

You could use truck mud flaps and use the thinner part and minimize the number of holes with larger ones. Companies throw away partialy broken ones and you could get them for free. If you know a trucker, the better. The Savonius offers great torque but it is only about 13% efficient, it could raise to 25% easy with one or two holes.

Take care,

Michel


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2009, 08:48:26 PM »
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Offline infringer

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2009, 04:18:26 PM »
Now we are getting somewhere starting to pick up some things along the way...

OK first question the number of 13% efficient where did you get that data ? Is there some kind of efficiency chart or something for wind turbines?

What type of rating do other turbines have?

Great thinking truck flaps are rather rugged indeed...

Maybe if I put swiss cheese holes along the region there is back pressure with a drill bit and on the inside put a truck flap or something similar it will do me some good while still maintaining structure ...

What are your thoughts on that ...

I am still worried about weight because it has to make a big difference the more I think about it the more it makes since.

EFFECTS:
- Start up speed
- The amount of time before next service
- Places more friction on every joint and bearing

Hard telling what else... I have not mentioned for sure ...

But I suppose if I set up a date with a wind turbine shes gonna have to put out !!!

:P :P :P

EDIT: the wind coming in on that curve may blow the flap open when it is trying to catch wind which would kind of equalize the effect a bit just thinking out loud here I figure you have to view the pluses and minuses of everything and not turn a blind eye.

Offline Michelinho

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2009, 07:35:14 PM »
Hi Infringer,

The reference to the 13% efficiency is in this post:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7169.msg169025#msg169025

As for the flap staying open, I don't think there will be a problem since when the edge of the barrel half start to get in the positive pressure position, the curve form will create vortexes that will act on the flap(s) to keep it close.

A conventional propeller windmill can get up to 30% efficiency depending on the blade system used, from the same site where the document came from.

The inherent weight of the Savonius setup calls for a strong central shaft and cone bearings, roller can't be used as they would fail, they are made to work in a horizontal setup. If the bearing are lubed with light oil (felt washer below in a plastic cup (plastic jar cap jammed under and touching) to act as oil reserve) start up speed won't be affected or not much.

Take care,

Michel


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2009, 07:35:14 PM »
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Offline infringer

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2009, 04:47:01 AM »
YIKES!

7watts of power an hour

Screw this I don't see how I missed that I could purchase solar cells and tab them cheaper then I can build this turbine and that is with the enclosure for them... I am not impressed at all my little 1ft by 2ft solar panel puts out 10 watts of power and that costs less then 100bux to build and that was because I used expensive plexiglass I could have built it for roughly 20bux...

OK so here I am back to the drawing board!

I want a cheap solution to going green not too much to ask but it seems as if every which way I turn someones just out trying to make a buck off you... Starting with X10 home automation which is JUNK little do they tell you that you have to couple your phases in order for things to work properly throughout the home whew how about a few more hundred for an electrician while your at it not to mention the hassle of getting your electric co. to disconnect your meter...


I don't see how I missed your original posting...

By the way I was thinking of only lapping the barrels half way I dont know if that makes a difference in power production or not?

What can I do to generate a fair amount of power at lower winds preferably without erecting a tower 7watts is just not worth the efforts and investment I wanna see a quicker ROI ...
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 05:18:09 AM by infringer »

Offline Michelinho

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2009, 05:00:51 AM »
Hi Infringer,

Any mobile home park around your place?

Get a complete axle with wheel drums and you can probably get away with as low as $50.00. You would get 4 bearings and race, 2 nice spindles and a tough shaft where you could weld side arms for holding at least dual barrels Savonius. That would be as cheap as you can get. We bought a few many years ago with rims and tires for not much than that to make a trailer for a 35' boat. You can weld supports on the wheel spokes for the external support or simply go with guide wires for the top part.

Cheaper is get a small trailer that someone wants to scrap and use the parts in the same way.

If anything else comes to mind, I will post.

Take care,

Michel

Edit: Mount the barrel halves 90 degree from level 1 to level 2 and get a lower start up speed.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2009, 05:00:51 AM »
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Offline infringer

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2009, 05:58:41 AM »
Yes there sure is a mobile home park around my place but no one wants to get rid of anything around here it seems I dunno why...

Everyone pack rats stuff I mean stuff you would never expect them to but anyhow...

Do you think this will result in a better output? I'm looking for a decent power curve obviously I will be using plastic barrels so as for rust that will not be an issue.

They have 32 gallon trash bins rubber maid at walmart locally for 10bux a piece might also be worth it if my barrels do not show. I have a lot to accomplish here actually even for a simplistic design ...

I thank you for staying with me though it appears cflguy has jumped ship I must have said something that stired em wrong or maybe I was a bit too dumb I dunno...

I am trying to do this right the first time I guess and I know there are others who have been down this road who can share things with me. To save time and money.

I may be taking a trip to locate some barrels without chemicals here tomorrow hopefully I can get these folks to sell the barrels.

I may stick with two high as well because the issue of stability ...

The other thing i would love to try is hanging coils from string and having them swing over a magnet and only allow a limited amount of movement say maybe see what kind of power this could bring it would be super easy to build and test and would resemble the elastic flutter design but on a larger scale... That's just a jot for future tinkering.

I wanna see way more power then 7watts though realistically if I don't generate decent watts average it may not be worth my while to use wind I really need to do some rethinking here if 7watts is the production avg...

Offline Michelinho

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2009, 07:03:38 AM »

Re Infringer,

If you mount 2 halves on 1 level and the 2 other halves 90 degree offset from the 1st level, you will save on the total height of your setup as you will need side brace supports and angle braces to strengthen them. The top one, braced under the lower support and the bottom one reversed with the reinforcement brace going up to the main rotor shaft from its top support. That is why the 90 degree offset. It will also negate much wobbling tendency.

The 7 watts reported was probably due to the use of a car alternator and under 10 mph wind as specified in the article. If you use a large rotor 20" or more and make your own bifilar coils, I would expect a minimum of 400 watts under a 14 mph head wind.

Take care,

Michel


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2009, 07:03:38 AM »
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Offline Michelinho

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2009, 07:30:22 AM »

Re Infringer,

When I tested my alternator with my 1/2" drill in low setting, giving me 300 rpm I got close to 18 amps at 14.3 V from my 12 bifilar coils of awg 18 magnet wire and 2 facing sets (16 magnets, 32 total) of 1 1/2" X 1" X 1/4" N48 neo mounted on 1/8" thick 10" diameter steel disks.

With the torque you will get from a dual barrel setup, I don't think 20" would be too hard to spin to 100 rpm, that is why a large rotor might be better. You would need to make your rotor after a speed test.

Don't expect the thing to spin at 300-400 rpm, well balance or not.

Take care,

Michel


Offline Michelinho

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2009, 07:48:36 AM »

Re Infringer,

The last part of your previous post mention testing the "windbelt" concept, I have  read a bit on that and it is a very interesting and efficient design. I have done a few tests with the nylon straps used for strapping cargo on trailers.

It would work but not well as the original design but would still work well with a pulley at each ends  and magnets in coils and a good spring for the swinging effect at the opposite ends. Multiple units would be highly productive in a staircase arrangement.

That's all for now. Too bad for Cityguy as I was looking forward to him doing the rotor and design.

Take care,

Michel


Offline tbird

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2009, 03:07:04 PM »
hi infringer,

just a thought......

http://mikeswindmillshop.com/LowWindGenerator.html

tom

Offline tbird

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Re: Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2009, 03:34:53 PM »
hi infringer,

i should mention too, you might find the best price for your batteries (6 volt golf cart) at sam's.

when the price of lead went up to $1.60 a pound, battery prices went crazy.  lead is back to $.60 lb (+ or -).  as you know, once a price is raised, it's hard to see it go back down.  sam's has been the best i've seen, so far.

tom

 

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