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Alternative medicine => healthy food => Topic started by: hartiberlin on April 05, 2009, 11:36:59 PM
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Hi All,
after watching this video I will not eat much meat anymore
and maybe try to live as a vegetarian.
If you all don´t buy any meat anymore they will not make any money
anymore with this cruelties:
http://www.chooseveg.com/animal-cruelty.asp
Beware, I stopped the video after watching half of it as I could not stand it.
Regards, Stefan.
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Thank you for posting that Stefan.
I too am going more Vegetarian after watching that.
Some people have to be REALLY, REALLY SICK to treat animals like that. Can you imagine how they probably treat their family members too?
.
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Stefan,
If you become a vegetarian you will become sick and daum,
also your kids will be retarded.
All life lives off dead stuff, that is reality.
The reason humans are able to control there environment is because we eat protein from dead animals.
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Humans as predators are back wards. We eat the best of the herd, not the young, old and sick. It does cause an off balance of the system.
I have no problem with raising, killing processing and eating meat myself.
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Humans as predators are back wards. We eat the best of the herd, not the young, old and sick. It does cause an off balance of the system.
I have no problem with raising, killing processing and eating meat myself.
The problem is, that in the supermarket you can not see,
if the meat you are buying was good or bad and if there were
injected any anabolika growth medicine into the animal
before it was slaughtered...
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Yep steroids and antibiotic in the store meat are a problem. That is not counting the possibility of prions and other biological hazards. Again a game of the industry policing itself. All the latest problems with peanut butter etc shows just how bad this could get. Strangely enough the risk seems to be higher for the vegetarian than the meat eater so far. Pesticides and the other stuff that goes with that end is just as unsafe.
The problem is, that in the supermarket you can not see,
if the meat you are buying was good or bad and if there were
injected any anabolika growth medicine into the animal
before it was slaughtered...
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Stefan, thanks for the warning as I did not watch the video. (yet)
I have always wondered about this subject. For those that say we can't make muscle or get the protein we need from plants, consider the gorilla, who eats sticks and twigs and could kick all of our butts.
I love a good steak but to be honest, if I had to slaughter it, I would eat a salad instead so I guess that makes me a hypocrite. Now I don't mind catching and fixing a fish to eat but the problem is, I never catch that many, ha ha.
I am not sure there is an answer to this dilemma or any right or wrong. I have lived on nothing but salads for several weeks but then......I get a good steak or grill some excellent hamburgers. There may be no hope for me.
Bill
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Vegetarian Spaghetty Bolognaise with scrambled Tofu
is very delicious.
Also eating vegetables soup with potatoes and champignons mushrooms
and cooked brocoli is very nice and healthy and good for your stomach.
I agree, that sometimes one has a real hunger for a great grilled steak,
but maybe you can change instead to TOFU steaks, cause if you use the
right spices, it tastes also almost as good as a grilled steak.
Regards, Stefan.
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Avoiding meat is just ignoring the problem. The problem is not the sick meat, the real problem is what caused the sick meat. It's called capitalism. Increasing profit no matter what. This is a very sick and deluded system that has to be brought down by none others than the citizens. By just shifting your focus to something else (vegetables) you're doing jack shit to eradicate the problem. Every type of food will be spoiled by them just because they want MORE AND MORE money. They will give a damn squat about your health.
This is not only the meat industry pretty much every single industry we know does exactly the same.
There's really one choice left and the only choice that always worked in history.
We grab out pitchforks and torches and hang these assholes.
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Ughh.....terrible....... nothing deserves that kind torture, if anything they should lead better lives than a wild animal as they are to be sacrificed, cancer and disease should be expected from bad practices like the video (which i didn't make it through either uhhh)........
I have killed animals and eaten them, problem is most people don't know what that's like- almost a religious experience when you think about the heavy ideas of death, life and survival. I can kill a rabbit or whatever and I don't feel bad cause deep down I know that's what we do, we kill to live, but to torture it and treat it like a thing rather than a animal.....whats the point, why?
laziness, greed, sadism, lack of empathy, etc
Maybe everybody should start getting their meat live and serve it on demand Lol
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I eat my road kill, its organic.
No added hormones or pesticides.
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Steffan,
Thankyou for this post. There are two videos that show what we buy from the so called respectable supermarkets.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8576816145694781888&ei=qeTgSYjsCdCF-AaLkNydDQ&q=dispathes
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3486838871531386599&ei=xuXgSbXXHYXK-AbEg-GaDg&q=dispathes
It is good to see the intelligent contribution to this thread but I still see some idiots amongst us.
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http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8576816145694781888&ei=qeTgSYjsCdCF-AaLkNydDQ&q=dispathes
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3486838871531386599&ei=xuXgSbXXHYXK-AbEg-GaDg&q=dispathes
Thanks for sharing. That's exactly my point.
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Steffan,
Thankyou for this post. There are two videos that show what we buy from the so called respectable supermarkets.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8576816145694781888&ei=qeTgSYjsCdCF-AaLkNydDQ&q=dispathes
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3486838871531386599&ei=xuXgSbXXHYXK-AbEg-GaDg&q=dispathes
It is good to see the intelligent contribution to this thread but I still see some idiots amongst us.
Many thanks for these videos.
I removed the posting that made jokes of this.
It is a shame, that nowadays only a few supermarkets chains sell all the
food , as was said in the videos and they try to make as much profit as possible, but treating animals
and food like this in this terrible way.
In GB these are these 4 supermarket chains mentioned and in Germany
it is mainly now Lidl and Aldi.
They now have the whole market power.
So in this monopoly of food production chains,
they can do what they want...
and we all depend on it.
It is too bad...
all the other supermarkets are much more expensive and
will probably sooner or later die.
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i can kill and eat any animal for food without any problem, but what i cannot stand is for animals to be disrespected and tortured like some in the video.
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Many thanks for these videos.
I removed the posting that made jokes of this.
It is a shame, that nowadays only a few supermarkets chains sell all the
food , as was said in the videos and they try to make as much profit as possible, but treating animals
and food like this in this terrible way.
In GB these are these 4 supermarket chains mentioned and in Germany
it is mainly now Lidl and Aldi.
They now have the whole market power.
So in this monopoly of food production chains,
they can do what they want...
and we all depend on it.
It is too bad...
all the other supermarkets are much more expensive and
will probably sooner or later die.
stephan i can't believe you removed my post. i wasn't making fun. i was using an analogy to explain how idiotic being a vegetarian is. humans are carnivores, that's why our eyes are on the front of our faces, so we can judge the distance to our prey. BUT THAT'S ALL BESIDE THE POINT.
your thread screams the idea that we should be vegetarians because of the way SOME manufacturers treat animals, THIS IS STUPID, SO IS YOUR CENSORSHIP. I CAN'T FUCKING BELIEVE YOU WOULD REMOVE THAT AND NOT SOME OF THE OTHER FUCKING GARBAGE ON THIS SITE. ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE!!! you might as well remove all my posts, i'm done posting here, everyone else should take the hint, if censorship is going to start in such idiotic thread that is unrelated to energy in any way whatsoever, what is going to happen to your your meaningful posts?
i'm done with your site. get a handle on what you should be censoring and what you shouldn't... the answer is nothing. asshole.
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Ughh.....terrible....... nothing deserves that kind torture, if anything they should lead better lives than a wild animal as they are to be sacrificed, cancer and disease should be expected from bad practices like the video (which i didn't make it through either uhhh)........
I have killed animals and eaten them, problem is most people don't know what that's like- almost a religious experience when you think about the heavy ideas of death, life and survival. I can kill a rabbit or whatever and I don't feel bad cause deep down I know that's what we do, we kill to live, but to torture it and treat it like a thing rather than a animal.....whats the point, why?
laziness, greed, sadism, lack of empathy, etc
Maybe everybody should start getting their meat live and serve it on demand Lol
Hey PYRODIN123321,
I agree 100% with you ...... the problem today is the continued doom and gloom factor, some views are posted here at OverUnity in "we can't live without the truth" or other boards in this forum, where things are not as they are today when and where starvation happens not if it ever happens. When there is no spinach, Tofu or veggie burgers around the corner to eat when your so hungry and thirsty a bug or dirty water starts looking good depending on how long you went with out nourishment. To think of "steak and potatoes" without the steak ....... Humm
Anyone that is "cruel" to any animal >:( whether it's to eat or not should be found, prosecuted and jailed for there crime on natures defenseless animals. The harvesting of any animals for consumption should have international standards like the "Geneva Convention" on war ..... no exceptions ..... none.
Fuzzy
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Anyone that is "cruel" to any animal Angry whether it's to eat or not should be found, prosecuted and jailed for there crime on natures defenseless animals. The harvesting of any animals for consumption should have international standards like the "Geneva Convention" on war ..... no exceptions ..... none.
Well, in the future this will probably not be done by forced law, but instead by the moral consensus of earth's inhabitants, those who don't want this will still continue eating meat though.
I was born vegetarian in my family here in Norway, home of the fishers ;D
Still no big problem really, as partly said by someone earlier in the tread, you can easily make up for not eating meat by instead eating beans, they contains just as much (if not more) proteins. And from an environmental perspective you are using much less resources for the same amount of food, this is mainly due to the losses when you climb the food chains.
Fish is actually not necessary either. As some know, the primal reason to why fish may be necessary to eat is because it is our main source of Omega 3. The reason to this however is because they absorb it from animals and vegetables further down in the food chain, the originator being a form algae. We can actually eat this, and my farther is actually a really good chief, and often makes good dishes with pasta, tomatoes, beans and something called a Nori Algae, which he say actually tastes like fish (he used to eat meat when he was a kid).
At least for people who wants to try something different, try searching for good vegetarian recipes on the net, I especially recommend you all to try a lentil burger, its a kind of bean mashed and fried into that meat you find in burgers. Its REALLY good!
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I WILL TELL YOU WHY THEY TORTURE THE ANIMALS...!
I used to be a French Chef for 25 years - for the last 7 years of my Chef career I owned a restaurant which served Prime Rib roast as the main attraction - then I learned the truth.
THE TRUTH IS:
They torture the animals (deliberately) to raise their adrenaline and other FEAR hormone levels!
These natural - very powerful hormones stay in the meat after processing and cooking.
Poeple who eat this meat often become addicted to these natural chemicals in the meat - like cigarettes.
This adrenaline gives people a high - which they enjoy!
It also makes them violent - look at the most violent races (whites)- they eat this meat
Eskimos eat meat (raw) and which has not been tortured - so they are not violent unless given alcohol.
After I learned this TRUTH I changed my restaurant to a vegetarian, non-alcohol restaurant overnight so I could stop poisining my customers.
I sold the restaurant shortly thereafter (about the time I met gotoluc) - and the rest is history.
Cheers
Thane
ps
An experiment was performed where they fed rats raw vegetables - they lived peacefully...
then they changed the diet to cooked meat and vegetables... soon the rats began killing each other...
when their food was switched back to raw veggies peace was restored.
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No way! You're 100% sure of this!!!?!?
Didn't think men could be that evil.....
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No way! You're 100% sure of this!!!?!?
Didn't think men could be that evil.....
If a person lives long enough - they will conclude that there is NO LIMIT to man's cruelty and evil.
For example - In Darfur roaming "ethnic cleansing gangs" will cut the male genitals off small children and force the mother to watch her child bleed to death in front of her before she herself is raped and murdered.
Sadly this is who we are as a species.
Thane
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If a person lives long enough - they will conclude that there is NO LIMIT to man's cruelty and evil.
For example - In Darfur roaming "ethnic cleansing gangs" will cut the male genitals off small children and force the mother to watch her child bleed to death in front of her before she herself is raped and murdered.
Sadly this is who we are as a species.
Thane
This is what happens when you give animals intelligence.
But in the end the animals also evolves their empathy, and so turns into 'real humane beings'. which we at general haven't turned into yet.
But there is a purpose to everything, even suffering, although I don't believe this belongs in the Food health category ;D
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I WILL TELL YOU WHY THEY TORTURE THE ANIMALS...!
I used to be a French Chef for 25 years - for the last 7 years of my Chef career I owned a restaurant which served Prime Rib roast as the main attraction - then I learned the truth.
THE TRUTH IS:
They torture the animals (deliberately) to raise their adrenaline and other FEAR hormone levels!
These natural - very powerful hormones stay in the meat after processing and cooking.
Poeple who eat this meat often become addicted to these natural chemicals in the meat - like cigarettes.
This adrenaline gives people a high - which they enjoy!
It also makes them violent - look at the most violent races (whites)- they eat this meat
Eskimos eat meat (raw) and which has not been tortured - so they are not violent unless given alcohol.
After I learned this TRUTH I changed my restaurant to a vegetarian, non-alcohol restaurant overnight so I could stop poisining my customers.
I sold the restaurant shortly thereafter (about the time I met gotoluc) - and the rest is history.
Cheers
Thane
ps
An experiment was performed where they fed rats raw vegetables - they lived peacefully...
then they changed the diet to cooked meat and vegetables... soon the rats began killing each other...
when their food was switched back to raw veggies peace was restored.
@Thane
Thanks. I had heard many years ago. Also the Hindu teachers blame wars on the culture of eating meat.
I know the french take their food science to the extreme but the people and companirs we see in these videos are not interested in what they produce other than profit. Clearly the taste of food does not exist in their culture.
In any case I would advise anyone wanting to comment on this thread to watch the video.
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An experiment was performed where they fed rats raw vegetables - they lived peacefully...
then they changed the diet to cooked meat and vegetables... soon the rats began killing each other...
when their food was switched back to raw veggies peace was restored.
Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler were non-smoking and non-drinking vegetarians !
Go figure
Hans von Lieven
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George Bush was a republican......
Does that make every republican a complete retard? NO!
Go figure....
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Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler were non-smoking and non-drinking vegetarians !
Go figure
Hans von Lieven
That is actually a popular myth. Hitler was not a vegetarian. He was fond of liver dunplings. Just Google it - there is tons of evidence against this myth.
Not sure about Himmler.
Myself, I have given up pork and veal, because I know how particularly cruelly pigs and veal calves are treated. I wish I could make the full leap, but can't quite give up beef, chicken and fish yet.
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True, Hitler was a meat eater once. After the death of Geli Raubal however he became a vegetarian and never returned to eating meat.
Hans von Lieven
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@CRANKYpants
i never knew there was a connection between adrenalin in meat and aggression
now it makes perfect sense (to me)
@Utilitarian
i'm having quite the same troubles with fish but i'm slowly getting to not eat anything that had a face
reada
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Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler were non-smoking and non-drinking vegetarians !
Go figure
Hans von Lieven
Yes but they were GERMAN non-smoking, non-drinking vegetarians - that explains it!
NEVER trust a German - just ask our ex-PM Brian Mulroney...
Cheers
T
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George Bush was a republican......
Does that make every republican a complete retard? NO!
Go figure....
No but it DOES make every Bush a retart though...doesn't it! :-\
T
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Yes but they were GERMAN non-smoking, non-drinking vegetarians - that explains it!
NEVER trust a German - just ask our ex-PM Brian Mulroney...
Cheers
T
What!??
Wait, Hartiberlin is german...... OH NO!!!!!
......
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And what is a Brian Mulroney ? ??? ??? ???
Hans von Lieven (Another German) ;D
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No but it DOES make every Bush a retart though...doesn't it! :-\
T
Okey, in all seriousness, NO it doesn't.
But his granddad was a bastard, I mean it!
He helped Hitler in financing his huge military strength.
And juniors dad wasn't so good either, invading Iraq and all....
But I still don't believe that it because of their blood. Probably it was more about bad influence...
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I think being a vegen is the best solution to the environmental problems of this date.
The reason is very simple: The excrement from herbivores can be used as a nitrogen fertilizer. However, the excrement from carnivores or omnivores not only kills plants, but also carries diseases that could be transmitted to humans. The way how the diseases are mutated, activated, and transmitted also depends on the ambient temperature.
In many countries, such as the US, less than 20% of the housewastes are recyclable, and the remaining 80% has to be either landfilled or dumped in gullies. Unfortunately, the non-recyclable wastes include the excrement from carnivores or omnivores. If this trend goes on as it does, and if the runaway warming theory is indeed correct, then we should expect possible outbreak of diseases due to the unprecedented climate change.
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sad, but would it be right to eat it if it wasn't mistreated?
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6.7 billion people in the world and the majority eat meat. that's a lot of slaughtering for the masses.
glad to be a vegetarian.
Jerry ;)
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the plight of the carrots...
"imagine the horror experienced by a sentient carrot, the terrible knowledge that you and all of the others in your field will be harvested for food, and, for the least lucky of you, the atrocity known as carrot juice.
the life of a carrot is a hard one. completely immobile, your entire existence is a strain, ever upwards toward the sun, toward light and life. but with growth comes vulnerability, first to darkness and thirst, then to weeds, then to the horrid rabbits, other rodents, and even some insects. since you cannot move, the water which gives you life can drown you if it comes too heavily or too often. and, even then, after surviving all that, your short life is snuffed out in the end by the brute of a farmer that raised you.
imagine the rage at a culture which idolizes and adores the fiend, bugs bunny. how they have reduced his senseless massacre of your brethren to a running gag, simplified it as a simple food fetish.
imagine the realization that you have been brought into the world solely for the purpose of slaughter and consumption. imagine the terror of knowing that every carrot in your field will meet the same awful fate, ending their existence in the shopping carts and dinner plates of the monsters which raised each and every one of you.
imagine knowing all of this, and not being able to fight back, to cry out, to run away. it is as tool's angel of the lord says to brother maynard: let the rabbits wear glasses! save our brothers. for, tomorrow is harvest day, and to them, it is the... "
http://everything2.com/title/Plight+of+the+carrots
DOES NO ONE CARE ABOUT THE CARROTS? i do, and besides meat is friggen awesome tasting. who cares about cruelty, they are bred for us to slaughter just as the carrots are...
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Hopefully you are just joking. If not then this is just as stupid as some of the arguments used on the energetic forum about the same topic :(
First ask yourself a logical question: Why would carrots ever need the ability to feel pain, if they had no chance of either fleeing or fighting? This doesn't make sense!
Pain is not meant to be a thing of horror, it is a tool for all living life and makes them aware of dangerous situations, situations which they should be able to steer.
And to even believe that a carrot (a plant) is conscious even close to the level of humans or animals is to me strange. Mind,and the ability to think consciously is something that must evolve and plant are far less evolved than us.
I don't think they actually "like" being killed, but it don't think the sensation of pain and misery is even a percentage of that which animals feels when they die.
This way of living is a choice of choosing the smallest of two evils, and in this case I strongly believe that killing a few plants for a kg of food is better then killing hundreds if not thousands of plants for the same kilogram of meat (this is probably highly mis-underestimated) in additions to the animal itself.
There is much more to this, but if you have any pity to the thought of rationality at all than you should not joke this fact away. Meat-eating in general has extreme environmental bi-effects, not only counting the global warming (if it is caused by our greenhouse emissions).
Julian
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Hopefully you are just joking. If not then this is just as stupid as some of the arguments used on the energetic forum about the same topic :(
First ask yourself a logical question: Why would carrots ever need the ability to feel pain, if they had no chance of either fleeing or fighting? This doesn't make sense!
Pain is not meant to be a thing of horror, it is a tool for all living life and makes them aware of dangerous situations, situations which they should be able to steer.
And to even believe that a carrot (a plant) is conscious even close to the level of humans or animals is to me strange. Mind,and the ability to think consciously is something that must evolve and plant are far less evolved than us.
I don't think they actually "like" being killed, but it don't think the sensation of pain and misery is even a percentage of that which animals feels when they die.
This way of living is a choice of choosing the smallest of two evils, and in this case I strongly believe that killing a few plants for a kg of food is better then killing hundreds if not thousands of plants for the same kilogram of meat (this is probably highly mis-underestimated) in additions to the animal itself.
There is much more to this, but if you have any pity to the thought of rationality at all than you should not joke this fact away. Meat-eating in general has extreme environmental bi-effects, not only counting the global warming (if it is caused by our greenhouse emissions).
Julian
no i'm not. it's nice that you have such abundance of sustenance that you can bitch and whine about what you eat and what others should also eat.
whether or not carrots can feel 'pain' is irrelevant, they are alive are they not?
are you suggesting cattle and the like can experience 'horror'? have any evidence they can? horror is human construct...
more irrelevance, plants are just as alive as cattle or chickens.
assumption...
'evil' is another human construct and also irrelevant.
so you are saying that only life that has a higher nervous system (one that can feel 'pain') is the life we should not use for food? as far as your environmental argument, that is pure speculation, unless you have some irrefutable evidence to present.
say for arguments sake that all the 'horrific slaughter' ::) stops now. what then of all the cattle and chickens and turkeys etc.? you bleeding hearts aren't going to be happy (yet again) when they all starting eating your veggie garden are you? sad fact is, your kind removed all the top level predators in the interest of 'safety' so you have no wolves, no bears, no lions left to cull the herd(s). in doing so (killing all the predators) you took that responsibility for culling on yourself, deal with it.
i think you assume too much...
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are you suggesting cattle and the like can experience 'horror'? have any evidence they can? horror is human construct...
Many animals display emotions similar to ours in certain situations. They protect fellow herd members, mourn the loss of a child, and so forth. You really should read up on the behaviors of elephants, wolves, dogs, apes, and so forth.
It would be absurd to assume that we humans evolved with all of our emotions completely unique to our species. It is much more likely that the emotions we have are ones that have evolved from lower animals. So it is quite likely that the animals we feast on feel at least a portion of what a human would in a similar situation.
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Well, some bad news. Plants have been proven to display emotions too. they have done many experiments where two plants are in a room hooked up to some meters. A guy in a black gown comes in a rips one plant out of the pot and tears it to shreds. The other plant reacted on the meters with some intensity.
Then, the clincher, the same guy walked back into the room after the meters had settled down (wearing the same black cloth) and the surviving plant went hysterical on the meters once again without anything happening.
Just food for thought. (No pun intended...well, ok, maybe a little one.)
Bill
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Many animals display emotions similar to ours in certain situations. They protect fellow herd members, mourn the loss of a child, and so forth. You really should read up on the behaviors of elephants, wolves, dogs, apes, and so forth.
It would be absurd to assume that we humans evolved with all of our emotions completely unique to our species. It is much more likely that the emotions we have are ones that have evolved from lower animals. So it is quite likely that the animals we feast on feel at least a portion of what a human would in a similar situation.
speaking of 'reading up' you should be taking the advice you offer, it would help you to keep your foot out of your mouth.
an animal may make certain movements and sounds, and show certain brain and chemical signals when its body is damaged in a particular way but can you show irrefutably that an animal feels (is aware of) pain as we are, and is not merely programmed to act a certain way with certain stimuli? no you can't, so 'go spit' with your usual assumptions.
thanks bill. i love it when utilitarian opens his big mouth and sticks his foot in there. how he does it while he has his head up his anus amazes me even more. that was better than when he "bet the farm"...
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and besides meat is friggen awesome tasting.
Cyanide is sweet to the tongue and smells like sweet almond blossoms, so what is your point?
not everything that tastes good is good. besides, if we had some other means of avoiding harvesting of food to feed our selves I would probably check it out. I really do feel healthier being a vegetarian but if there was an easier way I would probably being doing it.
besides, if you was to throw God into the picture then how many follow his/her rules of eating food? there are reasons why certain foods were mentioned not to eat.
people will be people I guess.
Jerry :)
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Well, some bad news. Plants have been proven to display emotions too. they have done many experiments where two plants are in a room hooked up to some meters. A guy in a black gown comes in a rips one plant out of the pot and tears it to shreds. The other plant reacted on the meters with some intensity.
Then, the clincher, the same guy walked back into the room after the meters had settled down (wearing the same black cloth) and the surviving plant went hysterical on the meters once again without anything happening.
Just food for thought. (No pun intended...well, ok, maybe a little one.)
Bill
this has been known for about 30 years, I am a vegetarian because I chose what was to me the lessor evil, there is nothing else to my knowledge to avoid it.
look, I like Hamburgers, I just chose not to eat them.
jerry
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Cyanide is sweet to the tongue and smells like sweet almond blossoms, so what is your point?
not everything that tastes good is good. besides, if we had some other means of avoiding harvesting of food to feed our selves I would probably check it out. I really do feel healthier being a vegetarian but if there was an easier way I would probably being doing it.
besides, if you was to throw God into the picture then how many follow his/her rules of eating food? there are reasons why certain foods were mentioned not to eat.
people will be people I guess.
Jerry :)
just like my farts!! neat! ::)
of course you would. you, just like the rest of us, are lazy and opportunistic.
i subscribe to: if it feels/tastes good, do/eat it...
there is no god, so what is your point?
taking life is taking life. period. there is no "lesser of two evils" because there is no such thing as 'evil' except in your mind. i repeat, it is a human construct.
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speaking of 'reading up' you should be taking the advice you offer, it would help you to keep your foot out of your mouth.
an animal may make certain movements and sounds, and show certain brain and chemical signals when its body is damaged in a particular way but can you show irrefutably that an animal feels (is aware of) pain as we are, and is not merely programmed to act a certain way with certain stimuli? no you can't, so 'go spit' with your usual assumptions.
thanks bill. i love it when utilitarian opens his big mouth and sticks his foot in there. how he does it while he has his head up his anus amazes me even more. that was better than when he "bet the farm"...
Nobody owes you an irrefutable proof of anything. You are a vile human being, an Internet troll, and I hope you rot in that hellhole rundown apartment that you live in, and I hope your hoopty hydroxy-pimped scooter that you drive to your shitty-ass job everyday finally breaks down on you.
Good thing you can feel good about yourself because you still have power to feast on animals, you big Internet tough guy. You show those animals who the winner is on the food chain.
And as far as any past arguments go, why don't you put your money where you mouth is? Point out a free energy technology that we have debated in the past. I will bet you $5000 that none of it will amount to anything. Time duration - 3 years. If there is verifiable evidence of overunity, such a reputable independent study or a product on the market, you win, otherwise, I collect. Come on, punky.
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Nobody owes you an irrefutable proof of anything. You are a vile human being, an Internet troll, and I hope you rot in that hellhole rundown apartment that you live in, and I hope your hoopty hydroxy-pimped scooter that you drive to your shitty-ass job everyday finally breaks down on you.
Good thing you can feel good about yourself because you still have power to feast on animals, you big Internet tough guy. You show those animals who the winner is on the food chain.
And as far as any past arguments go, why don't you put your money where you mouth is? Point out a free energy technology that we have debated in the past. I will bet you $5000 that none of it will amount to anything. Time duration - 3 years. If there is verifiable evidence of overunity, such a reputable independent study or a product on the market, you win, otherwise, I collect. Come on, punky.
assumption, conjecture, ad hominem... oh my! i see you have no ground to base your opinions and assumptions on and have resorted to the usual...
if you are going to call a notion absurd and then offer up your own notion (that you consider to be much more likely) with no ground to base it on, don't cry when it gets yanked down.
lol, that's funny coming from a carrot killer. ::) you go show those sessile plants you cognitively dissonant human you...
as far as past arguments go, you have put foot in mouth every time. and with your head up your anus, how do you do it? you and i have never debated a 'FE tech' to my knowledge. i have mostly corrected your asinine assumptions and asked you to back up your claims with substance. which usually causes you to respond with something similar to you latest post... what you have proposed now is a wager, not an argument. you're comparing apples to unicorns as usual and trying to shift the discussion from your foot in mouth error. nice try though ::)
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assumption, conjecture, ad hominem... oh my! i see you have no ground to base your opinions and assumptions on and have resorted to the usual...
lol, that's funny coming from a carrot killer. ::) you go show those sessile plants you cognitively dissonant human you...
as far as past arguments go, you have put foot in mouth every time. and with your head up your anus, how do you do it? what you have proposed now is a wager, not an argument. you're comparing apples to unicorns as usual and trying to shift the discussion from your foot in mouth error. nice try though ::)
Hi Wilby.
what is your motto, I mean, what are you all about, what path do you choose to walk? what lessons do you choose to share and pass down?
is there something you know that we have not learned or that which has been past down over the thousands of recorded years?
really, I want to know more about you and your ways, if you are willing to share them that is.
Ro:12:20
Jerry ;)
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Hi Wilby.
what is your motto, I mean, what are you all about, what path do you choose to walk? what lessons do you choose to share and pass down?
is there something you know that we have not learned or that which has been past down over the thousands of recorded years?
really, I want to know more about you and your ways, if you are willing to share them that is.
Ro:12:20
Jerry ;)
motto: dum spiro pugno.
path: the lesser traveled one.
depends on what you wish to see. here's one: no one can practice the precepts perfectly.
maybe.
i'm a fairly private enigma.
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motto: dum spiro pugno
path: the lesser traveled one
maybe
i'm a fairly private enigma
Hi Wilby.
That is a good start, a little vague but a start.
what is it that ensues you, I mean, do you have a preference to life itself, I mean, if you were that old man on the mountain with wisdom, what would you share that could enrich our lives so that we could be prosperous among the few.
I really am a seeker of wisdom and anyone with wisdom is a temple of knowledge.
Ro:12:20
Jerry ;)
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Hi Wilby.
That is a good start, a little vague but a start.
what is it that ensues you, I mean, do you have a preference to life itself, I mean, if you were that old man on the mountain with wisdom, what would you share that could enrich our lives so that we could be prosperous among the few.
I really am a seeker of wisdom and anyone with wisdom is a temple of knowledge.
Ro:12:20
Jerry ;)
life for most of us is an overflowing cup, it is sad that no one notices that fact.
it is not getting what you want, it is wanting what you have got.
know law or no law.
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life for most of us is an overflowing cup, it is sad that no one notices that fact.
it is not getting what you want, it is wanting what you have got.
know law or no law.
Hi Wilby.
I can endure that bit of wisdom, especially the cup, I know proudly of the poor which suffers. I can only hope. it is all I have, is hope. I teach the things I know for I know not about all things.
2Tm:4:3
Jerry ;)
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Has anyone here done any research on colloidal gold?
Colloidal Gold has been used in treatment of rheumatoid arthritis for thousand years. According to my experiments, vegans usually experience the benefits of colloidal gold sooner and more strongly at a given dosage than meat eaters. I have done some tests on a few dogs as well, and, apparently, this applies not only to humans, but also to dogs.
The effects of colloidal gold on vegans and non-vegans have not been well documented in medical literature, but many researchers like edgar cayce echo these findings.
( P.S. I am glad that a lot of FE researchers are vegetarian. This means that we are not the minority in the scientific community anymore. )
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@Bill, as a utilitarian already said, its a choice of choosing the lesser evil, or "lesser bad" if you don't believe in evil :D
Something WilbyInebriated though cannot change by his senseless and of-topic arguments is that we are contributing to the destruction of many thousands more plants by eating the same food as meat, then if we ourself had went and eaten it. So, calling me a carrot killer must make you (WilbyInebriated) not only a cow and chicken killer, but also three-times-giants-carrot-destroyer, if you get what I am saying. Of course I know how you think and don't care, I thought like that a while ago as well. You are materialist, you try to explain everything we observe and feel as just plain chemical reactions, expect maybe for the human motions which you maybe think has a more "divine" aspect to it, truth is you aren't sure, right?
Plants, animals and humans (which is partly animal) is all 'living beings'.
This is not something created, this is not something initiated by randomness, but something that have always existed. I am not saying that plants and animals are worth less, we are all actually equal.
But to take the physical life from a being is not the same as to fundamentally kill it, that is impossible.
So it becomes a question of how we can cause the least amount of pain to a another living being in order to live and exist as human beings. Plants are both less sophisticated than animals and does most probably not have the same kind of advanced sensory organs for pain as animals (although as experiments have proven, they can be aware of it). Pain is only useful as a tool to our bodies if we have a chance to remove the cause of that pain.
@utilitarian, how come you have been here for so long and not yet found the free energy? ;D
I think it has at least something to do with how you choose to confront possible evidences.
If you want I can give you more than enough proof to convince you, this is just stuff I have found over the year and half I've been into this :D
Bye all, and eat well ;)
Julian
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Something WilbyInebriated though cannot change by his senseless and of-topic arguments is that we are contributing to the destruction of many thousands more plants by eating the same food as meat, then if we ourself had went and eaten it. So, calling me a carrot killer must make you (WilbyInebriated) not only a cow and chicken killer, but also three-times-giants-carrot-destroyer, if you get what I am saying. Of course I know how you think and don't care, I thought like that a while ago as well. You are materialist, you try to explain everything we observe and feel as just plain chemical reactions, expect maybe for the human motions which you maybe think has a more "divine" aspect to it, truth is you aren't sure, right?
please explain how i am off topic. i am offering a different opinion than yours...whaaa
you have no idea how i think. to suggest you do is asinine. i am not a materialist and 'truth' depends greatly on your point of view...
Plants, animals and humans (which is partly animal) is all 'living beings'.
This is not something created, this is not something initiated by randomness, but something that have always existed. I am not saying that plants and animals are worth less, we are all actually equal.
But to take the physical life from a being is not the same as to fundamentally kill it, that is impossible.
So it becomes a question of how we can cause the least amount of pain to a another living being in order to live and exist as human beings. Plants are both less sophisticated than animals and does most probably not have the same kind of advanced sensory organs for pain as animals (although as experiments have proven, they can be aware of it). Pain is only useful as a tool to our bodies if we have a chance to remove the cause of that pain.
i get what you are saying. your convoluted wordings grew up around the necessity to hide from ourselves the violence we intend toward each other. between depriving a man/animal or plant of one hour from its life and depriving it of its life there exists only a difference of degree. you have done violence to it, consumed its energy. elaborate euphemisms may conceal your intent to kill, but behind any use of power over another thing the ultimate assumption remains: "i feed on your energy."
you are aware that vegetarian dishes are not entirely vegetarian... vegetables, boiled or not, contain dead bacteria. not to mention that fruits and veggies are pretty much 'plant roe', and that's disgusting, eating the ripened ovaries. it's plant infanticide.
edit: was it defeat to choose a 'lesser evil'?
gen 1:26
wilby ;)
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please explain how i am off topic. i am offering a different opinion than yours...whaaa
Your many remarks to utilitarian about his "face in the ass" problem and "foot in the mouth" :D Not very constructive or positive I'd say. But forget that....
you have no idea how i think. to suggest you do is asinine. i am not a materialist and 'truth' depends greatly on your point of view...
Ok, then I am sorry to have falsely judged you, but you remind me of my older brother's way of looking at life and he is a materialist, or something around that.
between depriving a man/animal or plant of one hour from its life and depriving it of its life there exists only a difference of degree.
Okey I figured it out, you're religious! Well this is a prime example of the typical Christian thinking and nativity, to believe that anything so horrid and evil can be committed that it can be justified with eternal pain and suffering. Well you didn't say eternal pain but you said "depriving it of its life".
This can absolutely be seen as an eternal punishment if it where in fact true, that we die and can never experience life again. From that perspective there is no "degree" between taking one hour or year from you life and to take you life, indefinitely. This is like in mathematics when we use a parabolic or hyperbole shape, its ends will stretch out infinitely, giving you all eternity to walk between them.
you have done violence to it, consumed its energy. elaborate euphemisms may conceal your intent to kill, but behind any use of power over another thing the ultimate assumption remains: "i feed on your energy."
I need food in order to survive, I am not denying that. What I am saying is that I want to do it in the most humane method which I as a human am able to, and which is also healthy. Giving potatos or bread to a tiger is not healthy, it would surely die, the same goes for many other carnivores. Bears of many kinds can survive completely without meat if they have to, but they still want it. Humans are fully evolved to handle diets containing only plants. This is proved by all the many cultures which has not needed meat in order to survive.
you are aware that vegetarian dishes are not entirely vegetarian... vegetables, boiled or not, contain dead bacteria. not to mention that fruits and veggies are pretty much 'plant roe', and that's disgusting, eating the ripened ovaries. it's plant infanticide.
If you honestly think that this is so disgusting which I think you don't, then compeer that to what is required in order feed you with your weekly consumption of meat. To feed a cow through its life, accounting for all the energy losses because of its heat production and movement, you would need many times more kg of plants in order to create that kg of meat which you consumes. I cannot take your lack of reason in any other way than that you 'don't want to understand'.
But I know its like this. Even though it all points to this fact, even though it is obvious, you like so many others are not yet willing to accept it because it doesn't fit your lifestyle. It is not about compassion or a guilty feeling for the plants, it is because you don't want to. Period.
Lastly: was it defeat to choose a 'lesser evil'?
I chose my path because I can understand it. True empathy is not sentimentality, it is in the way our knowledge will take form, but I am not saying that I know it all, I am just on the path.
I still wish you well Wilby,
Julian
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Your many remarks to utilitarian about his "face in the ass" problem and "foot in the mouth" :D Not very constructive or positive I'd say. But forget that....
Ok, then I am sorry to have falsely judged you, but you remind me of my older brother's way of looking at life and he is a materialist, or something around that.
Okey I figured it out, you're religious! Well this is a prime example of the typical Christian thinking and nativity, to believe that anything so horrid and evil can be committed that it can be justified with eternal pain and suffering. Well you didn't say eternal pain but you said "depriving it of its life".
This can absolutely be seen as an eternal punishment if it where in fact true, that we die and can never experience life again. From that perspective there is no "degree" between taking one hour or year from you life and to take you life, indefinitely. This is like in mathematics when we use a parabolic or hyperbole shape, its ends will stretch out infinitely, giving you all eternity to walk between them.
I need food in order to survive, I am not denying that. What I am saying is that I want to do it in the most humane method which I as a human am able to, and which is also healthy. Giving potatos or bread to a tiger is not healthy, it would surely die, the same goes for many other carnivores. Bears of many kinds can survive completely without meat if they have to, but they still want it. Humans are fully evolved to handle diets containing only plants. This is proved by all the many cultures which has not needed meat in order to survive.
If you honestly think that this is so disgusting which I think you don't, then compeer that to what is required in order feed you with your weekly consumption of meat. To feed a cow through its life, accounting for all the energy losses because of its heat production and movement, you would need many times more kg of plants in order to create that kg of meat which you consumes. I cannot take your lack of reason in any other way than that you 'don't want to understand'.
But I know its like this. Even though it all points to this fact, even though it is obvious, you like so many others are not yet willing to accept it because it doesn't fit your lifestyle. It is not about compassion or a guilty feeling for the plants, it is because you don't want to. Period.
Lastly:
I chose my path because I can understand it. True empathy is not sentimentality, it is in the way our knowledge will take form, but I am not saying that I know it all, I am just on the path.
I still wish you well Wilby,
Julian
his foot is in his mouth, and his head is up his anus. sorry to not sugar coat it.
mea culpa accepted.
wrong again. did you 'reason' this from my earlier statement that there is no god? if i were religious i would be a member of the church of the FSM.
we all need sustenance to survive. we all must kill to get it. you take offense to fuzzy things with big brown eyes being killed and i take offense to the flora being killed.
you're correct i don't. it was meant to make you look at plants (and eating them) from a different perspective. and the plight of the carrots was meant to make you look at how silly it sounds (the whining about killing of livestock). there is no lack of reason, i cannot take your refusal to comprehend that killing is killing in any other way than that you don't want to understand...
you realize that your eye sockets are evolved on the front of your skull so you can judge the distance between you and your prey (not a fruit or veggie) don't you? this is a trait of carnivores/omnivores. period. herbivores have eye sockets on the sides of their skulls, giving them a wider angle of vision to see the predators...
may your beard never grow shorter and my your shadow never diminish.
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End of conversation, I knew you wouldn't take on my questions.
Live your life and live it good, but don't fool yourself into believing that you can truly justify it, you can only talk your way from it.
Julian
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End of conversation, I knew you wouldn't take on my questions.
Live your life and live it good, but don't fool yourself into believing that you can truly justify it, you can only talk your way from it.
Julian
which questions? you didn't ask a question in that last post... typical.
if you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. when you believe something is right or wrong, true or false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. such assumptions are often full of holes(as yours are), but remain most precious to the convinced (as yours do).
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Meat Consumption Linked to Mercury Poisoning:
http://tinyurl.com/ylfdmvy
http://tinyurl.com/yzfld8s
http://tinyurl.com/yjrjxjj
Also, the following video describes how organic or elemental mercury destroys neurons:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHqVDMr9ivo&NR=1