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Author Topic: Animal cruelty, better be a vegetarian !  (Read 38978 times)

Offline utilitarian

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Re: Animal cruelty, better be a vegetarian !
« Reply #45 on: August 11, 2009, 07:26:00 AM »
speaking of 'reading up' you should be taking the advice you offer, it would help you to keep your foot out of your mouth.

an animal may make certain movements and sounds, and show certain brain and chemical signals when its body is damaged in a particular way but can you show irrefutably that an animal feels (is aware of) pain as we are, and is not merely programmed to act a certain way with certain stimuli? no you can't, so 'go spit' with your usual assumptions.

thanks bill. i love it when utilitarian opens his big mouth and sticks his foot in there. how he does it while he has his head up his anus amazes me even more. that was better than when he "bet the farm"...

Nobody owes you an irrefutable proof of anything.  You are a vile human being, an Internet troll, and I hope you rot in that hellhole rundown apartment that you live in, and I hope your hoopty hydroxy-pimped scooter that you drive to your shitty-ass job everyday finally breaks down on you.

Good thing you can feel good about yourself because you still have power to feast on animals, you big Internet tough guy.  You show those animals who the winner is on the food chain.

And as far as any past arguments go, why don't you put your money where you mouth is?  Point out a free energy technology that we have debated in the past.  I will bet you $5000 that none of it will amount to anything.  Time duration - 3 years.  If there is verifiable evidence of overunity, such a reputable independent study or a product on the market, you win, otherwise, I collect.  Come on, punky.

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Animal cruelty, better be a vegetarian !
« Reply #46 on: August 11, 2009, 07:36:08 AM »
Nobody owes you an irrefutable proof of anything.  You are a vile human being, an Internet troll, and I hope you rot in that hellhole rundown apartment that you live in, and I hope your hoopty hydroxy-pimped scooter that you drive to your shitty-ass job everyday finally breaks down on you.

Good thing you can feel good about yourself because you still have power to feast on animals, you big Internet tough guy.  You show those animals who the winner is on the food chain.

And as far as any past arguments go, why don't you put your money where you mouth is?  Point out a free energy technology that we have debated in the past.  I will bet you $5000 that none of it will amount to anything.  Time duration - 3 years.  If there is verifiable evidence of overunity, such a reputable independent study or a product on the market, you win, otherwise, I collect.  Come on, punky.

assumption, conjecture, ad hominem... oh my!  i see you have no ground to base your opinions and assumptions on and have resorted to the usual...
if you are going to call a notion absurd and then offer up your own notion (that you consider to be much more likely) with no ground to base it on, don't cry when it gets yanked down.

lol, that's funny coming from a carrot killer.   ::) you go show those sessile plants you cognitively dissonant human you...

as far as past arguments go, you have put foot in mouth every time. and with your head up your anus, how do you do it? you and i have never debated a 'FE tech' to my knowledge. i have mostly corrected your asinine assumptions and asked you to back up your claims with substance. which usually causes you to respond with something similar to you latest post... what you have proposed now is a wager, not an argument. you're comparing apples to unicorns as usual and trying to shift the discussion from your foot in mouth error. nice try though ::)

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Animal cruelty, better be a vegetarian !
« Reply #47 on: August 11, 2009, 07:53:15 AM »
assumption, conjecture, ad hominem... oh my!  i see you have no ground to base your opinions and assumptions on and have resorted to the usual...

lol, that's funny coming from a carrot killer.   ::) you go show those sessile plants you cognitively dissonant human you...

as far as past arguments go, you have put foot in mouth every time. and with your head up your anus, how do you do it? what you have proposed now is a wager, not an argument. you're comparing apples to unicorns as usual and trying to shift the discussion from your foot in mouth error. nice try though ::)

Hi Wilby.

what is your motto, I mean, what are you all about, what path do you choose to walk? what lessons do you choose to share and pass down?

is there something you know that we have not learned or that which has been past down over the thousands of recorded years?

really, I want to know more about you and your ways, if you are willing to share them that is.

Ro:12:20
Jerry ;)

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Animal cruelty, better be a vegetarian !
« Reply #48 on: August 11, 2009, 07:57:29 AM »
Hi Wilby.

what is your motto, I mean, what are you all about, what path do you choose to walk? what lessons do you choose to share and pass down?

is there something you know that we have not learned or that which has been past down over the thousands of recorded years?

really, I want to know more about you and your ways, if you are willing to share them that is.

Ro:12:20
Jerry ;)

motto: dum spiro pugno.
path: the lesser traveled one.
depends on what you wish to see. here's one: no one can practice the precepts perfectly.

maybe.

i'm a fairly private enigma.

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Animal cruelty, better be a vegetarian !
« Reply #49 on: August 11, 2009, 08:04:45 AM »
motto: dum spiro pugno
path: the lesser traveled one

maybe

i'm a fairly private enigma

Hi Wilby.

That is a good start, a little vague but a start.

what is it that ensues you, I mean, do you have a preference to life itself, I mean, if you were that old man on the mountain with wisdom, what would you share that could enrich our lives so that we could be prosperous among the few.

I really am a seeker of wisdom and anyone with wisdom is a temple of knowledge.

Ro:12:20
Jerry ;)

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Animal cruelty, better be a vegetarian !
« Reply #50 on: August 11, 2009, 08:09:44 AM »
Hi Wilby.

That is a good start, a little vague but a start.

what is it that ensues you, I mean, do you have a preference to life itself, I mean, if you were that old man on the mountain with wisdom, what would you share that could enrich our lives so that we could be prosperous among the few.

I really am a seeker of wisdom and anyone with wisdom is a temple of knowledge.

Ro:12:20
Jerry ;)
life for most of us is an overflowing cup, it is sad that no one notices that fact.
it is not getting what you want, it is wanting what you have got.
know law or no law.

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Animal cruelty, better be a vegetarian !
« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2009, 08:25:19 AM »
life for most of us is an overflowing cup, it is sad that no one notices that fact.
it is not getting what you want, it is wanting what you have got.
know law or no law.

Hi Wilby.

I can endure that bit of wisdom, especially the cup, I know proudly of the poor which suffers.  I can only hope. it is all I have, is hope. I teach the things I know for I know not about all things.

2Tm:4:3
Jerry ;)

Offline blueplanet

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Re: Animal cruelty, better be a vegetarian !
« Reply #52 on: August 11, 2009, 10:57:17 AM »
Has anyone here done any research on colloidal gold?

Colloidal Gold has been used in treatment of rheumatoid arthritis for thousand years. According to my experiments, vegans usually experience the benefits of colloidal gold sooner and more strongly at a given dosage than meat eaters. I have done some tests on a few dogs as well, and, apparently, this applies not only to humans, but also to dogs.

The effects of colloidal gold on vegans and non-vegans have not been well documented in medical literature, but many researchers like edgar cayce echo these findings.


( P.S. I am glad that a lot of FE researchers are vegetarian. This means that we are not the minority in the scientific community anymore. )

Offline Nabo00o

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Re: Animal cruelty, better be a vegetarian !
« Reply #53 on: August 11, 2009, 11:06:02 AM »
@Bill, as a utilitarian already said, its a choice of choosing the lesser evil, or "lesser bad" if you don't believe in evil :D
Something WilbyInebriated though cannot change by his senseless and of-topic arguments is that we are contributing to the destruction of many thousands more plants by eating the same food as meat, then if we ourself had went and eaten it. So, calling me a carrot killer must make you (WilbyInebriated) not only a cow and chicken killer, but also three-times-giants-carrot-destroyer, if you get what I am saying. Of course I know how you think and don't care, I thought like that a while ago as well. You are materialist, you try to explain everything we observe and feel as just plain chemical reactions, expect maybe for the human motions which you maybe think has a more "divine" aspect to it, truth is you aren't sure, right?

Plants, animals and humans (which is partly animal) is all 'living beings'.
This is not something created, this is not something initiated by randomness, but something that have always existed. I am not saying that plants and animals are worth less, we are all actually equal.

But to take the physical life from a being is not the same as to fundamentally kill it, that is impossible.
So it becomes a question of how we can cause the least amount of pain to a another living being in order to live and exist as human beings. Plants are both less sophisticated than animals and does most probably not have the same kind of advanced sensory organs for pain as animals (although as experiments have proven, they can be aware of it). Pain is only useful as a tool to our bodies if we have a chance to remove the cause of that pain.


@utilitarian, how come you have been here for so long and not yet found the free energy?  ;D
I think it has at least something to do with how you choose to confront possible evidences.
If you want I can give you more than enough proof to convince you, this is just stuff I have found over the year and half I've been into this  :D

Bye all, and eat well ;)
Julian

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Animal cruelty, better be a vegetarian !
« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2009, 11:42:55 AM »
Something WilbyInebriated though cannot change by his senseless and of-topic arguments is that we are contributing to the destruction of many thousands more plants by eating the same food as meat, then if we ourself had went and eaten it. So, calling me a carrot killer must make you (WilbyInebriated) not only a cow and chicken killer, but also three-times-giants-carrot-destroyer, if you get what I am saying. Of course I know how you think and don't care, I thought like that a while ago as well. You are materialist, you try to explain everything we observe and feel as just plain chemical reactions, expect maybe for the human motions which you maybe think has a more "divine" aspect to it, truth is you aren't sure, right?
please explain how i am off topic. i am offering a different opinion than yours...whaaa
you have no idea how i think. to suggest you do is asinine. i am not a materialist and 'truth' depends greatly on your point of view...

Plants, animals and humans (which is partly animal) is all 'living beings'.
This is not something created, this is not something initiated by randomness, but something that have always existed. I am not saying that plants and animals are worth less, we are all actually equal.

But to take the physical life from a being is not the same as to fundamentally kill it, that is impossible.
So it becomes a question of how we can cause the least amount of pain to a another living being in order to live and exist as human beings. Plants are both less sophisticated than animals and does most probably not have the same kind of advanced sensory organs for pain as animals (although as experiments have proven, they can be aware of it). Pain is only useful as a tool to our bodies if we have a chance to remove the cause of that pain.
i get what you are saying. your convoluted wordings grew up around the necessity to hide from ourselves the violence we intend toward each other. between depriving a man/animal or plant of one hour from its life and depriving it of its life there exists only a difference of degree. you have done violence to it, consumed its energy. elaborate euphemisms may conceal your intent to kill, but behind any use of power over another thing the ultimate assumption remains: "i feed on your energy."

you are aware that vegetarian dishes are not entirely vegetarian... vegetables, boiled or not, contain dead bacteria. not to mention that fruits and veggies are pretty much 'plant roe', and that's disgusting, eating the ripened ovaries. it's plant infanticide.

edit: was it defeat to choose a 'lesser evil'?

gen 1:26
wilby ;)
« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 12:10:14 PM by WilbyInebriated »

Offline Nabo00o

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Re: Animal cruelty, better be a vegetarian !
« Reply #55 on: August 11, 2009, 01:08:10 PM »
Quote
please explain how i am off topic. i am offering a different opinion than yours...whaaa
Your many remarks to utilitarian about his "face in the ass" problem and "foot in the mouth"  :D Not very constructive or positive I'd say. But forget that....

Quote
you have no idea how i think. to suggest you do is asinine. i am not a materialist and 'truth' depends greatly on your point of view...
Ok, then I am sorry to have falsely judged you, but you remind me of my older brother's way of looking at life and he is a materialist, or something around that.


Quote
between depriving a man/animal or plant of one hour from its life and depriving it of its life there exists only a difference of degree.

Okey I figured it out, you're religious! Well this is a prime example of the typical Christian thinking and nativity, to believe that anything so horrid and evil can be committed that it can be justified with eternal pain and suffering. Well you didn't say eternal pain but you said "depriving it of its life".
This can absolutely be seen as an eternal punishment if it where in fact true, that we die and can never experience life again. From that perspective there is no "degree" between taking one hour or year from you life and to take you life, indefinitely. This is like in mathematics when we use a parabolic or hyperbole shape, its ends will stretch out infinitely, giving you all eternity to walk  between them.

Quote
you have done violence to it, consumed its energy. elaborate euphemisms may conceal your intent to kill, but behind any use of power over another thing the ultimate assumption remains: "i feed on your energy."
I need food in order to survive, I am not denying that. What I am saying is that I want to do it in the most humane method which I as a human am able to, and which is also healthy. Giving potatos or bread to a tiger is not healthy, it would surely die, the same goes for many other carnivores.  Bears of many kinds can survive completely without meat if they have to, but they still want it. Humans are fully evolved to handle diets containing only plants. This is proved by all the many cultures which has not needed meat in order to survive.

Quote
you are aware that vegetarian dishes are not entirely vegetarian... vegetables, boiled or not, contain dead bacteria. not to mention that fruits and veggies are pretty much 'plant roe', and that's disgusting, eating the ripened ovaries. it's plant infanticide.
If you honestly think that this is so disgusting which I think you don't, then compeer that to what is required in order feed you with your weekly consumption of meat.  To feed a cow through its life, accounting for all the energy losses because of its heat production and movement, you would need many times more kg of plants in order to create that kg of meat which you consumes. I cannot take your lack of reason in any other way than that you 'don't want to understand'.

But I know its like this. Even though it all points to this fact, even though it is obvious, you like so many others are not yet willing to accept it because it doesn't fit your lifestyle. It is not about compassion or a guilty feeling for the plants, it is because you don't want to. Period.

Lastly:
Quote
was it defeat to choose a 'lesser evil'?

I chose my path because I can understand it. True empathy is not sentimentality, it is in the way our knowledge will take form, but I am not saying that I know it all, I am just on the path.

I still wish you well Wilby,
Julian

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Animal cruelty, better be a vegetarian !
« Reply #56 on: August 11, 2009, 01:21:21 PM »
Your many remarks to utilitarian about his "face in the ass" problem and "foot in the mouth"  :D Not very constructive or positive I'd say. But forget that....
Ok, then I am sorry to have falsely judged you, but you remind me of my older brother's way of looking at life and he is a materialist, or something around that.


Okey I figured it out, you're religious! Well this is a prime example of the typical Christian thinking and nativity, to believe that anything so horrid and evil can be committed that it can be justified with eternal pain and suffering. Well you didn't say eternal pain but you said "depriving it of its life".
This can absolutely be seen as an eternal punishment if it where in fact true, that we die and can never experience life again. From that perspective there is no "degree" between taking one hour or year from you life and to take you life, indefinitely. This is like in mathematics when we use a parabolic or hyperbole shape, its ends will stretch out infinitely, giving you all eternity to walk  between them.
 I need food in order to survive, I am not denying that. What I am saying is that I want to do it in the most humane method which I as a human am able to, and which is also healthy. Giving potatos or bread to a tiger is not healthy, it would surely die, the same goes for many other carnivores.  Bears of many kinds can survive completely without meat if they have to, but they still want it. Humans are fully evolved to handle diets containing only plants. This is proved by all the many cultures which has not needed meat in order to survive.
If you honestly think that this is so disgusting which I think you don't, then compeer that to what is required in order feed you with your weekly consumption of meat.  To feed a cow through its life, accounting for all the energy losses because of its heat production and movement, you would need many times more kg of plants in order to create that kg of meat which you consumes. I cannot take your lack of reason in any other way than that you 'don't want to understand'.

But I know its like this. Even though it all points to this fact, even though it is obvious, you like so many others are not yet willing to accept it because it doesn't fit your lifestyle. It is not about compassion or a guilty feeling for the plants, it is because you don't want to. Period.

Lastly: 
I chose my path because I can understand it. True empathy is not sentimentality, it is in the way our knowledge will take form, but I am not saying that I know it all, I am just on the path.

I still wish you well Wilby,
Julian
his foot is in his mouth, and his head is up his anus. sorry to not sugar coat it.

mea culpa accepted.

wrong again. did you 'reason' this from my earlier statement that there is no god? if i were religious i would be a member of the church of the FSM.

we all need sustenance to survive. we all must kill to get it. you take offense to fuzzy things with big brown eyes being killed and i take offense to the flora being killed.

you're correct i don't. it was meant to make you look at plants (and eating them) from a different perspective. and the plight of the carrots was meant to make you look at how silly it sounds (the whining about killing of livestock). there is no lack of reason, i cannot take your refusal to comprehend that killing is killing in any other way than that you don't want to understand...

you realize that your eye sockets are evolved on the front of your skull so you can judge the distance between you and your prey (not a fruit or veggie) don't you? this is a trait of carnivores/omnivores. period. herbivores have eye sockets on the sides of their skulls, giving them a wider angle of vision to see the predators...

may your beard never grow shorter and my your shadow never diminish.

Offline Nabo00o

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Re: Animal cruelty, better be a vegetarian !
« Reply #57 on: August 11, 2009, 01:31:56 PM »
End of conversation, I knew you wouldn't take on my questions.
Live your life and live it good, but don't fool yourself into believing that you can truly justify it, you can only talk your way from it.

Julian

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Animal cruelty, better be a vegetarian !
« Reply #58 on: August 11, 2009, 01:37:18 PM »
End of conversation, I knew you wouldn't take on my questions.
Live your life and live it good, but don't fool yourself into believing that you can truly justify it, you can only talk your way from it.

Julian
which questions? you didn't ask a question in that last post... typical.

if you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. when you believe something is right or wrong, true or false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. such assumptions are often full of holes(as yours are), but remain most precious to the convinced (as yours do).

Offline blueplanet

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Re: Animal cruelty, better be a vegetarian !
« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2009, 04:55:33 PM »
Meat Consumption Linked to Mercury Poisoning:

http://tinyurl.com/ylfdmvy

http://tinyurl.com/yzfld8s

http://tinyurl.com/yjrjxjj


Also, the following video describes how organic or elemental mercury destroys neurons:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHqVDMr9ivo&NR=1