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Author Topic: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion  (Read 125658 times)

Offline queue

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2009, 07:41:51 PM »
@queue & @wattsup

Have you ever got a single segment to start outside of the the stator, move into it and then exit without helping it along?

Fred

Check my AQ stuff .. in one the videos you will see the rotor is attracted into the stators field @ 10 oclock goes over the top of the wheel then breaks through the wall ( pull back zone )  out of the array at about 4 oclock..

Each end of this array sucks the rotor into the stator array while the opposite end wants to pull the rotor back  preventing it from leaving.

There are magnets on only one end of the rotor .. the other is just a empty copper pipe stuck o the end to balance out the other
copper pipe holding the mag rotor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjwK2WeLzWQ

Cheers
Queue


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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2009, 07:41:51 PM »

Offline lostcauses10x

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2009, 08:10:55 PM »
Again this is a game of placement of magnets. I see folks just trying to copy it without basic understanding of magnets.

 The spacing between magnets needs to be done to the stator magnet. It also is such the height of the stator would in hypothesis  be a part of this.

 The horse shoe magnet has two poles. Each C magnet has two poles.  The spacing has to be set to were the stator interact with the rotor at the proper time.  My advice to see if this can even work is to play with the rotor spacing to get the best acceleration to a run. Of course spacing to the stator and height of the stator would also need to be done.  Such is the spacing would have to be set to the magnets in use. Not some set distance.

 Simple put if an arrangement can not be done to create enough acceleration, well that is the problem.

 Folks think that by using his measurements with out knowing the strength and field of his C magnets are delusional.  Again it it a game of push pull and making sure it does not balance. 

 No it should be evident that the spacing in between is also of consideration.  Since these are magnets, short of some how making the currents in the disk arrange in a homopolar motor effect, it just basic magnets, push pull.

 If such is real it may even be the induced currents in the plate are aiding this. Again it would be a critical timing game if such is involved.

 Again I am not saying it is real, or fake. Just looking at the possibility, and what could be going on with out all the fancy explanations. As my step dad always said, KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.


Offline cloud camper

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2009, 10:41:35 PM »
LC, it doesn't matter what magnets or spacings are used.  As long as we are dealing with B fields, any configuration of any size will
find a position of symmetry and lock up.  This is why magnet motors don't work and is what Howard was trying to tell us.  His whole thrust was to kill the B fields completely, thereby unmasking or exposing the corner vortical spin fields.  The spin fields are assymmetric and nonconservative.  This is why HJ never alternated magnet polarity, always using the same poles to utilize the spin fields.  Look at the close spacing on his Stonehenge motor.  This would never work using any common gate technique.  The spin fields are very short range and create a unidirectional pull around the rotor without sticky spots, once the useless B fields are sunk out of the way.  Think of the B fields as just unwanted noise that must be filtered out.

Milows motor works because his rotor magnets are so incredibly weak, exposing the spin fields without using permeability plates.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 12:01:10 AM by cloud camper »

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2009, 10:41:35 PM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2009, 12:53:41 AM »
I had posted this in the wrong thread - sorry guys.

@queue

If you are seeing the same thing as me then we are on the right track, or loop.

What is puzzling is that @cloud camper posted saying HJ says symmetry does not work also. I discovered this myself and am very pleased to have read it coming from HJ. But the puzzlement is still there when you look at the picture of HJs device. Geez it looks pretty symmetric. So maybe symmetric in too close proximity does not work. His wheel has four segments with spacing in between but one would  expect much more spacing given the size of his rotors. So for sure his flexible magnet material is required to cut off the ends and permit a more compact design.

Also, you see the way he needs two hand to hold that fat sucker of a stator. I wonder how many times he banged his hands against a turning rotor. OUCH. Must hurt.

Yep I will order my rotors tonight when I get back home from the office.

@Fred Flintstone

Actually that's not a bad idea. But I would think it better to just cut one wheel in six and place them on six levels so you don't have to turn more disk mass for only 1/6th rotor segments. The only thing that haunts me about the idea is what if you go through all that trouble and the six segments still manage to make one field. Now how smart would the magnets be then. lol

Say hi to Wilma. lol

Offline X00013

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2009, 01:17:10 AM »
@ que, I wood liken 2 straitn 1 thing out, as i am buldn myself. ur mags r imperial? no? or are they metric,thanx

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2009, 01:17:10 AM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2009, 01:25:13 AM »
Actually I never thought of magnets in this way but we could consider them also as being applied in series or in parallel. The MylowHJ and HJ wheels have magnets in parallel whereas a rotor with alternating polarity magnets would be in series. The parallel placement would reinforce each polarity for strength, whereas the series placement would favor overall speed.

Anyways now that I know the magnet does not perform in a loop, the question is finding non loop configurations that can produce enough spin to reach the next segment. I think this is what they don,t want us to realize. Holy cow. lol

So think of this about a magnet. We know that the north polarity exits one end and enters the center blotch while the south polarity exits the blotch and enters the other polarity end.

Now when you put two magnets in parallel where they are held apart by their mutual repulsion, so how does the north field know which magnet it exited from to then re-enter the same magnets blotch field. Could it be that this is the "magnetic confusion" that creates the vortexes when placed in parallel.

Offline queue

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2009, 05:26:04 AM »
@ que, I wood liken 2 straitn 1 thing out, as i am buldn myself. ur mags r imperial? no? or are they metric,thanx

Rotors i am using ..


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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2009, 05:26:04 AM »
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Offline vince

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2009, 05:34:50 AM »
I've been playing around with this thing since the first posting.  After trying all the materials that Mylow used ( aluminum disc, horseshoe magnets and different rotor magnets ) and getting poor results I tried some very plain items and gotten as good if not better results than I did using all the proper items that Mylow used.

Steel rotor (bicycle wheel).
Plain low strength ceramic magnets (Disc kind )
Two strong ceramic magnets (rectangular)
Paper clips

By taping the ceramic magnets to the paper clips I can position them anywhere on the wheel.

First of all you don't need the horseshoe magnet. Facing a north pole and a south pole to the rotor works just as well.
What I found was that clustering them in groups of 3 or 4 then a space it would easily pull itself around on it's own (PROVIDING YOU DON'T CLOSE THE LOOP)., all the way to over 300 degrees of rotation.  As soon as you close the loop it meets resistance at the beginning of the loop.  Ive been trying all kinds of combination and can almost get it to go a full one and a half times around on its own but it always looses momentum and finds a resistance point. 

Mylow may have stumbled on to the right combination with his magnets. It seems that spacing has everything to do with success. By getting just the right space between each cluster you can increase the momentum  greatly and get the rotor to pull thru past the next cluster.

I would have posted a video but there really isn"t that much to see. After seeing the way this thing pulls itself around I really do think Mylo may have got just the right combination.

I'll keep playing with the positioning. Got to have a positive attitude with these things!!

Vince


Offline vince

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2009, 05:41:15 AM »
Sorry about that. Forgot to unzip the file. This should work.

Vince

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2009, 05:41:15 AM »
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Offline jester

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2009, 05:59:13 AM »


 As soon as you close the loop it meets resistance at the beginning of the loop.  Ive been trying all kinds of combination and can almost get it to go a full one and a half times around on its own but it always looses momentum and finds a resistance point. 



Say what? If you are getting more then one full turn before it stops then please please post a video  ;D

Offline vince

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2009, 06:11:13 AM »
Thats only when the loop is open and it coasts to the first cluster .  For some reason it does not want to start the sequence again and finds a sticky point.  I post a video if I can get it to actually start again, otherwise there really is nothing to see.

Vince

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2009, 06:11:13 AM »
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Offline Michelinho

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2009, 08:37:32 AM »

Hi vince,

Try using fridge magnets, the rubber type to ease the entry or exit of a magnet bank. I think HJ used those on his Stonehenge motor made of wood and with a center rotor. I have seen a video on Youtube last year where the entry of a magnetic gate used this type to cancel the forcefull entry of the magnetic projectile.

You can affect one pole of a horseshoe magnet by placing a small neodymium  inside or outside the arch, depending which you want to cancel out.

Take care,

Michel




Offline Omega_0

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2009, 06:15:16 PM »

By taping the ceramic magnets to the paper clips I can position them anywhere on the wheel.

First of all you don't need the horseshoe magnet. Facing a north pole and a south pole to the rotor works just as well.
What I found was that clustering them in groups of 3 or 4 then a space it would easily pull itself around on it's own (PROVIDING YOU DON'T CLOSE THE LOOP)., all the way to over 300 degrees of rotation. 


Well, I must say, you have a proper system to experiment with here. Congrats !.
What people do is, they set up everything in cement, don't leave any scope of adjustments and variations, and when that fixed setup fails to work, they declare it a failure and give up forever.
Imagine the thousands of possibilities where it can fail and there is only one or may be a few variations that can succeed.

So, go ahead and EXPERIMENT. And my sincere advice is - try tilting the wheel a bit, let the gravity assist. The wall can be overcome either by gravity or by inertia, something is needed to break the equilibrium.

A perfectly balanced wheel will remain perfectly still...... so your observation is correct, when you close the loop, there is a perfect equilibrium and the wheel will come to rest when disturbed.

You may get it going a few turns by assisting it with gravity or inertia or may be a small pulse, but it can again stop... no problems, just feed some energy back which you got from those few rotations.

Remember, Mylow's rig was tilted initially, he had to balance the table which he admitted in a video and had shown it with a spirit level, and after that video he could not produce the effect..... Well who knows.... :)

Offline lostcauses10x

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2009, 06:36:27 PM »
The only thing different in all of this is his video showing his stator magnet in the iron fillings folks. It would have to be the key in this. Everything else is the same we have all seen before.
Does any one disagree with this?


Offline cloud camper

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2009, 06:57:09 PM »
What needs to be different here is to get rid of the USELESS B fields. Push and pull do not cut it, never did and never will.  What worked for HJ was the short range vortical spin fields that remain after the
push and pull B fields are eliminated.  This is why HJ had a Patented and Working PMM.  Push and pull just mean symmetry in action.  Push and pull B fields only work with electromagnets where the field can be turned on and off.  What worked for HJ was to sink out the B fields using heavy permeability plates
exposing the vortical spin fields.  Also, he used long channel magnets with SHARP corners to separate the N and S poles.

I like all the steel in Vinces design but don't see any separation between the N and S poles.  This means
the vortical spin fields will be fighting each other and cancel out.  We need lots of steel, lots of separation
between the N and S poles, and sharp corners on the rotor magnets to maximize the spin fields.

 

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